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10:47:24","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時38分）謝謝主席，我想要請陳部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你在4月23日的就任記者會上說要把農業的剩餘物資源化、能源化，像我們彰化是稻米大宗的縣市，其實稻草也可以資源化，你知不知道？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我在這裡舉例，臺東的農場有將稻草製成固體的燃料SRF，這是一種方式，你有沒有考慮在彰化做？"],["陳部長駿季：種稻之後的剩餘物大概有兩類，一類是稻草、一類是稻殼。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。"],["陳部長駿季：稻殼的部分，現在有很多的粗糠爐，將它作為燃燒的燃料。以前稻殼還要找人來收、還要給人家錢，現在都是人家要付錢買，這是一個部分。另外一個部分就是稻草，稻草的部分其實它也可以壓縮成燃料棒。之前遇到的問題就是它的集運，但是現在慢慢地，其實循環再利用一個最重要的關卡，就是集運的系統。我們不能只針對稻草去做集運，所以我們現在會把許多散落在農地的這些……"],["謝委員衣鳯：剩餘的資材。"],["陳部長駿季：剩餘資材，可以用一個系統同時收起來，這樣的話它的成本會比較低。"],["謝委員衣鳯：就是不同作物的剩餘資材都可以做成這樣子SRF的燃料棒嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，要分類啦！要先做分類的部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：要分類以後，可以共同地做成？"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們希望去建構那樣一個集貨的系統，這樣的話……"],["謝委員衣鳯：其實我們講了很久了！其實從我第一任任期裡面，我就知道你們農業部在做。"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在跟彰化縣政府已經有在合作了。其實有一個部分，如果透過公所的回收車等等，就不會浪費更多的資源啦！我們在嘉義的東石，針對農膜跟塑膠布也有一個回收機制，最重要就是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是農作物的種類非常多耶！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以怎麼樣把不同的種類可以共同地集合起來能源化，這是非常重要的議題！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我為什麼舉稻草，因為其實在我們彰化也有很多的民眾了解日本製作榻榻米的時候需要稻草，他們也希望能夠出口臺灣的稻草到日本去，日本也有這樣的意願。農業部有沒有辦法就這個部分做任何的協助？因為如果能夠把它做成一個更高價值的東西，相對地也是提高這些種稻農民的經濟價值嘛！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。我想委員講到一個非常重要的重點，其實稻草是可以外銷的，特別在日本很多榻榻米的部分。但是現在有一個比較致命的規範是沒有解開的，就是因為日本本身並沒有去宣布我們是非疫區產地的時候，稻草是不能輸出的，因為他們怕稻草用在這些畜產業的墊料。我們現在正在積極地透過兩邊的協會去處理。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以是因為又牽涉到農牧的部分？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，它是牽涉到一些口蹄疫的非疫區、非疫國，因為他們說有些東西會把稻草當墊料嘛！所以他們擔心。但是我們會去做證明，就是其實我們的稻草是從田裡面收了以後，直接就出去的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：到工廠？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我們現在正在積極地尋求這一塊。現在可以出去的，大概都要加熱啦！加熱了以後，其實它再利用的價值就相對地比較少。所以我們會更努力地去突破，透過臺日的雙邊會議，去積極地讓他們了解我們的稻草沒有進到我們的豬場，而是直接從田裡有系統地出去，這個我們會來努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我們應該要把這整個供應鏈，以及怎麼樣的商業模式建立好。"],["陳部長駿季：對，是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為畢竟一般的小農或一般的農民是沒有辦法建構整個系統的，所以在農村這些剩餘物的資源化以及能源化的課題上面，我認為政府部門需要負擔很大的責任。"],["陳部長駿季：一定的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為如果你有把它的商業模式建構好，讓每一個小農都成為這個商業模式裡面的一個參與者，這才能夠讓整個農村的永續發展可以比先進的國家更好，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒。如果單純這種小農自己去做資源再利用，它的效益非常低，所以怎麼樣把小農串在一起，變成……"],["謝委員衣鳯：一個大的。"],["陳部長駿季：一個大的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們現在在推的集團產區就是這樣的一個概念。集團產區再透過一些有系統的運輸系統，就能夠把這些剩餘資材集結在一起，那才有機會去做它的能源化、材料化等。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我還有一個問題。陳吉仲是農業部的前部長，所以我相信他一定非常了解你們的情況。他說臺灣農業的種電都是用來賣的，而不是農業自用的，那這個問題怎麼改善？"],["陳部長駿季：現在就牽涉到使用到農地本身的光電產生的電是賣給台電，然後台電再依照它的需求去做調節，但是有一部分的光電是可以自用的。有關這個部分，未來農業部會推的，特別是在漁村，漁村不管你是屋頂型的，或是你在這邊有一些產製儲銷的光電，我們希望是能夠在漁村自用，這是我們努力的目標。相對地，現在的漁電共生本身的光電都是送到台電去，等於賣電的部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那這個部分怎麼做？因為其實上一次水試所沒有來，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：其實我們有講到，我們芳苑鄉所有的文蛤業者認為是不是受到陸域風機的影響，因為低頻嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那會不會造成文蛤的收成不好？因為畢竟文蛤是一個非常敏感的水產品，有時候水溫的高低，或者是氣溫的變化太大，都有可能影響到產量。那現在陸域的風機會不會造成影響？我上次要求水試所，希望它可以做相關的評估報告。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，那個報告我們跟屏科大已經在做研究了，因為他們有低頻的研究所。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["陳部長駿季：低頻有時候對我們人的影響跟對於牡蠣或是文蛤的影響可能不一樣，所以我們會用專案的方式，去瞭解這些低頻的震動是不是對於牡蠣的生物體造成影響。有報告的話，我們會把這個報告提供給委員。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。所以未來光電的發展希望不要影響到我們農業的生產，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們會堅持。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，應該是農業加值嘛！而不是影響到我們農業本業。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有！農業為本，光電加值。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我是說應該它是幫農業加值，它不是影響到我們農業的本業，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請張嘉郡委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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讓每一個小農都成為這個商業模式裡面的一個參與者這才能夠讓整個我們的農村的永續發展可以比得上就是說比先進的國家更好是不是我想謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":337.045,"end":359.301,"text":"如果單純從小農自己去做資源在利用,它的效率非常低。所以怎麼樣把小農串在一起變成一個大的。所以我們現在在推的集團產區就是這樣的一個概念。那你集團產區再透過一些有系統的運輸系統,那就能夠把這些剩餘資材集結在一起。那才有機會去做它的能源化、材料化等。"},{"start":360.452,"end":376.478,"text":"我還有一個問題就是陳吉仲是農業部的前部長所以我相信他一定非常了解你們的情況他說臺灣的農業的重電都是用來賣的而不是農業致用的那這個問題怎麼改善"},{"start":383.527,"end":399.55,"text":"我想現在這個牽涉到本身的使用到農地的本身的光電產生的電他是賣給台電然後台電再送到依照他的需求就做調節但是有一部分的"},{"start":401.48,"end":425.156,"text":"光電它是可以自用的。那這個部分我想蔚然農業部會推的特別是在漁村。漁村不管你是屋頂型的或是你在這邊有一些產製除消的這些光電我們希望是能夠在漁村自用。這是我們努力的目標。那相對的現在的漁電共生本身的光電都是送到台電去等於賣電的部分。"},{"start":425.916,"end":445.552,"text":"那這個部分怎麼做?因為其實上一次我們水市所沒有來嘛,對不對?其實我們有講到我們方院區、我們方院鄉的這個文革啊,它有非常多就是因為是他們所有的文革的業者認為說是不是受到"},{"start":446.749,"end":465.708,"text":"﹗"},{"start":465.768,"end":469.589,"text":"我跟委員說明那個報告我們跟平科大已經在做研究了因為他們有低頻的研究所那低頻有時候我們對我們人不一定"},{"start":489.454,"end":489.474,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":505.31,"end":505.33,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}