{"error":false,"id":["153240"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153240,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153240","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T11:07:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T11:19:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:16","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331a63df8cfad296804243e47098157e4f6a3ee6acdf2d5e987577c341b200dd5535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:07:01 - 11:19:17","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":599,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時7分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，今年上半年農業環境基本給付面積申報是18.6萬公頃、轉（契）作面積申報是5.8萬公頃，生產環境維護面積是3.1萬公頃。你針對農業環境基本給付面積，只針對是非都內的，就是非都的特定農業區跟一般農業區，對不對？。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那未來都市計畫的農業區，或非都的土地山坡地保護區、河川地、農牧用地，甚至國家公園土地，這個部分有沒有可能納用？"],["陳部長駿季：我想分兩個層次，一個層次就是說，如果國土計畫法如期執行的時候……"],["邱委員志偉：現在會如期嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，現在我們大家一起在努力朝這個目標前進。"],["邱委員志偉：你了解，你有參與。會不會延期？"],["陳部長駿季：裡面是有一些很多配套的作用法要處理。"],["邱委員志偉：對。配套沒有完成，你如期上路的話，可能會造成很多的負面影響，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是有可能造成一些影響。"],["邱委員志偉：好，那我想請教，你現在只針對一般農業區，對不對？就是針對非都的特定農業區跟一般農業區有給付，一年大概兩次，各5,000元。未來我希望是不是可以針對都市計畫區、農業區或非都的山坡地保護區、河川用地這些部分，你也可以有相關的給付？"],["陳部長駿季：因為現在的農一、農二已經劃出來了，農一、農二如果已經框了一些都市計畫裡面的農一區的部分，我們會優先考慮，因為以後可以對接……"],["邱委員志偉：所以農一、農二未來有可能納入環境基本給付吧？"],["陳部長駿季：會，一定會。"],["邱委員志偉：那金額是多少？也是一樣嗎？也是5,000元嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是一期5,000元，後續我想……"],["邱委員志偉：也是一樣嘛！跟現在的……"],["陳部長駿季：不是！我要先跟委員說明，當國土計畫上路，劃出農一、農二的話，我們所有政策資源的投入會以這個為集中點，甚至有一些要讓它……"],["邱委員志偉：就是打破所有非都，或者是一般農業區，或者都市計畫區的農業區，打破這些，你用農一、農二來做補助嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，然後那個政策一定會加碼，因為我要確保那個農地本身的農用部分。"],["邱委員志偉：所以農一、農二就包括都市計畫的農業區嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，是看縣市政府劃的部分。"],["邱委員志偉：好，所以你要配合國土計畫法上路之後，再做調整嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那給付金額也是一期5,000元，全年是1萬元？"],["陳部長駿季：對，現在是這樣子，但是後續一定會去調整，因為我們已經對外承諾，如果你劃入農一……"],["邱委員志偉：假設它會延期，我是希望針對都市計畫農業區也可以做補助。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會去專案檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：假設它要延期2年才實施上路，你對這部分，我希望說……"],["陳部長駿季：我們就會專案去檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：你就去做到公平。如果你財源足夠的話，你如果沒有辦法做到5,000元，你也可以酌予……比方說，4,000元、3,000元也可以考慮啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會用差異性地去處理這個議題，用專案的方式啦！"],["邱委員志偉：另外，今天媒體有報導說蛋價降，然後它也是滯銷，那個有沒有什麼相關的做法？"],["陳部長駿季：剛才有委員提醒我說……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，我有聽到。"],["陳部長駿季：我現在一個重點就是說，因為目前的蛋大概是2,420萬顆，比過往還多……"],["邱委員志偉：對，我知道。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們現在是希望在雞舍的部分能夠做一些老母雞的淘汰。"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，這些我都了解啦！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你蛋滯銷，有淡旺季嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：現在是淡季。主要是它的飼料成本居高不下，是不是有這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：它的飼料成本，我今天早上特別去看了一下現在的玉米跟大豆的成本，比最高點大概是降了26%。"],["邱委員志偉：因為蛋商對飼料成本有意見，他說飼料成本太高，我希望你做一個平臺，把蛋商和飼料業者也找來，看看問題出在哪裡，看能不能協議。比如說把飼料成本降低，來減少他的成本嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，今天早上我已經請畜牧司去找這些飼料工會的部分，看看他們在整個飼料成本的計算上面有沒有調降的空間，因為過往已經降了26%嘛！"],["邱委員志偉：你一定要趕快！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我今天早上就已經交代了。"],["邱委員志偉：三方都協調好，趕快找出一個結論，讓三方都可以接受。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，臺紐經濟合作協定將在2025年上路，這個部分對酪農的相關配套措施有沒有已經完成了？"],["陳部長駿季：報院的計畫已經核定了，現在是在執行細節。第一個執行細節就是……"],["邱委員志偉：要花多少錢去協助我們酪農？"],["陳部長駿季：我們原報的是29億元，行政院核定的是18.6億元，其中差的是一個青貯料的補助，那青貯料的補助我們會用另外一個方案來處理。另外一個就是……"],["邱委員志偉：所以29億元只核定18億元還是不夠，我希望你要配套做得好，你的資源、經費一定要到位。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，你現在已經從代理變真除了，你要為酪農著想。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：好。另外，你知道中研院在去年有公布農業政策建議書，未來會變成你農地政策白皮書相關的重點，也會變成你未來推動農業基本法立法的重點，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：參考依據啦！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好。這些單位，包括國科會、環境部，也有針對氣候變遷因應法有一些報告。未來可能低溫的狀況比較少，高溫的狀況會比較普遍，高溫對沿海養殖的漁業，包括魚種，對文蛤是不利的，但是對虱目魚是有利的……"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：而且烏魚的漁獲量會因為溫度的關係，而造成漁場北移。所以我們北高雄作為一個沿海跟近海養殖的重鎮，漁業署有沒有相關的因應作為，來協助漁民適應氣候變遷的狀況？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們現在正在對農的部分和漁的部分在討論，特別是高溫的天數或頻度比較高的時候，有些魚種會比較有利，所以牠產區的位移可能要預先做準備。第二個，沿海的部分它本身漁場的監控更加重要，因為它往北移的時候，到底移到哪邊，這個部分我們要去做研究。"],["邱委員志偉：高溫會是一個常態，就是氣候變遷。高溫對魚種的影響、對漁業的影響和衝擊，你一定要提出妥善的方式。另外，農民數位卡的進度怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：農民數位卡的部分，其實我們過去兩年在18項的農業關聯資料庫已經建立了，我們現在正在串接我們農地的資料庫跟氣象的資料庫。我們會發行的不是實體卡，而是一個數位卡，這個數位卡的部分會跟網路銀行一樣……"],["邱委員志偉：有哪些功能？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個功能就是，它的服務分兩個面向，以後農民到公所去申請的時候，掃了他的專屬QR Code，他的基本資料跟他過往所種植的東西會馬上呈現，不用重新用紙筆填，所以會加快……"],["邱委員志偉：所以這個數位卡非常重要，把所有資訊都在一卡裡面。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你要儘快上路，對農民在申辦各項業務，他會有很快的效率。另外，你的農電2025會不會跳票？"],["陳部長駿季：因為農電的部分是整個政府的大政策，我想我們會盡最大的努力地去……"],["邱委員志偉：你的目標是2025達到9GW，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：9GW，對。"],["邱委員志偉：你現在達成率是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：現在大概是……"],["邱委員志偉：38%啦！"],["陳部長駿季：差不多是38%左右。"],["邱委員志偉：不到4GW。那你怎麼樣去達標？你有沒有相關的因應作為？比方說，地方創生優先區是不是可以開放試辦地面型農電？有沒有這個方向規劃？"],["陳部長駿季：我想，第一個部分就是，現在不是地缺的問題，現在是在整個區域裡面，有的農民願意配合，有的農民不願意配合，所以光電業者在跟農民的協調上面產生了很多的問題。另外一個部分就是它養殖的事實。所以我們現在會重新去啟動一個機制，就是光電下的這些養殖有沒有機會用集團栽培的方式，由漁青來協助。"],["邱委員志偉：關於這個，幾個方式、四大建議，有很多媒體都有相關的研究。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：農業淨零的路徑很明確，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：小規模漸進來推展，然後以地方創生為本，讓農電為地方創生來加值。這幾個方式都已經幫你提出了solution，我希望針對這些solution，你們要去研究怎麼樣去達成嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，農地沒有人耕，缺工的狀況非常特別，你們要怎麼樣去把這個媒合的調度加強？生產面積不斷上升，但農戶人口逐漸下降，這個狀況怎麼處理？"],["陳部長駿季：我想分兩個面向，一個面向是季節性的缺工，我們用人力來處理……"],["邱委員志偉：我了解。"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是我們現在會更積極地用農事服務業去協助它的一些……"],["邱委員志偉：核配比率供不應求啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是1萬2,000人，才核大概將近8,000人還不到，還有4,000個名額在那邊。"],["邱委員志偉：還有4,000個名額？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那4,000個名額主要是針對哪些產業？"],["陳部長駿季：農糧的申請比較多，其他的反而申請的比較少。"],["邱委員志偉：農糧比較多……是不是你推廣不夠？有很多人跟我反映，說他都缺工，都找不到。比方說漁業也缺工，養殖漁業也缺工啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我們漁業給他的名額並沒有用完。"],["邱委員志偉：那是不是推廣不夠？為什麼很多人說根本漁工還不夠？"],["陳部長駿季：漁工本身可能有一部分是牽涉到後段的管理跟居住的問題，這個部分我們會更積極地去協助。"],["邱委員志偉：所以從112年到現在，漁工人數是1.2萬，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：1.2萬目前是足夠的？"],["陳部長駿季：大概核了將近8,000人，還有4,000人哦！"],["邱委員志偉：因為你門檻太高啦！你門檻太高，所以就沒有辦法讓他有資格去申請漁工嘛！所以我認為你門檻適度做調整，一下就滿了。"],["陳部長駿季：是，我們會滾動檢討那個門檻，我們農糧的門檻已經往下降了，至於漁業的或其他的，我們會再檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：我覺得還是要往下降。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你空有1.2萬，但是你沒有辦法媒合，沒有辦法促成，對不對？所以就是門檻太高。謝謝部長，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝。也請部長將相關資料送給委員說明清楚，謝謝。","接下來我們請呂玉玲委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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慮因為農一農二未來有可能納入環境這個基本幾戶吧會 一定會那金額是多少現在目前大概也是一樣嗎也是5000嗎"},{"start":155.256,"end":165.022,"text":"我們現在是一起五千,那後續我想...不是,我要先跟委員說明齁當國土計畫上路融一融二的話,我們所有的"},{"start":166.024,"end":166.264,"text":"﹚邱志偉"},{"start":190.075,"end":209.446,"text":"所以你要等你要配合這個顧慮計畫上路之後再去調整嘛對那幾戶金額是也是一起5000全年是現在是這樣子但是後續一定會去調整因為我們已經對外承諾如果你畫路假設他會延期我是希望說針對都市計畫農業區我們會去專門檢討假設他要延期兩年再實施上路你對這部分我希望說我們就會專門去檢討如果你財源足夠的話"},{"start":219.031,"end":236.358,"text":"您如果沒有辦法抓五千,您也可以左倚,不用說四千、三千也可以考慮啊。對,我們會用差異性的去處理這個議題,用專案的方式啊。另外今天媒體有報導說,蛋價滯銷,蛋價降,然後它也是滯銷,那個有沒有什麼相關的做法?"},{"start":241.082,"end":268.558,"text":"我想剛才那個有委員提醒我說那我現在一個重點就是說因為現在目前的蛋大概是2420萬顆比罐還多所以我們現在是希望在雞舍的部分他能夠做一些老母雞的一個淘汰我知道那你我這我都了解啦你蛋自銷有蛋旺季嘛對不對像是這個蛋季然後這個主要他的成本高居不下是不是有這個問題"},{"start":269.759,"end":278.54,"text":"市料成本的部分他的市料成本齁我今天早上特別去看了一下現在的玉米跟大豆的成本大概是"},{"start":282,"end":301.828,"text":"我希望因為這個蛋商這個對飼料成本他有意見他說飼料成本太高我希望你做一個平台把蛋商這個把這個飼料業者也找來看看問題出在哪裡看他們的協議把這個比如說飼料成本把它降低來減少他的成本嘛"},{"start":302.108,"end":302.228,"text":"主席"},{"start":317.261,"end":318.583,"text":"對,我今天早上就已經交代了我想"},{"start":333.48,"end":354.417,"text":"報言的計劃已經核定了,現在是在執行細節,第一個執行細節就是要花多少錢去集註?我們原報的是29億,那行政院核定的是18.6億那其中差的是一個就是除料有沒有,清除料的一個補助,那清除料的補助我們用另外一個方案來處理"},{"start":356.018,"end":357.279,"text":"另外一個就是學榮來的部﹖"},{"start":373.424,"end":396.406,"text":"好另外這個農業政策的建議書你知道那個中研院我們在去年有公布的農業政策建議書未來也會變成你農地政策白皮書的相關的重點也會變成這個與外推動農業基本法立法的重點對不對對參考依據是好你這個"},{"start":398.227,"end":423.413,"text":"這些單位包括國科會環境部也有針對這個氣候變遷的應用法他有一些報告那萬一未來低溫可能狀況比較少高溫的狀況比較會普遍高溫對這個沿海養殖的魚種對文革是不利的但是對虱目魚是有利的你怎麼樣而且整個烏魚的漁獲量會因為漁場"},{"start":426.034,"end":427.016,"text":"我想我們現在正在"},{"start":442.634,"end":443.555,"text":"主席"},{"start":466.886,"end":466.966,"text":"農民數位卡"},{"start":481.64,"end":496.992,"text":"農民數位卡的部分我們這樣子齁其實我們過去兩年在18項的那個農業關聯資料庫已經建立了那我們現在正在串接我們的農地的資料庫跟氣象的資料庫那我們會發行的不是實體卡是一個數位卡"},{"start":497.83,"end":518.952,"text":"那這個數位卡的部分會跟網路銀行一樣第一個功能就是他的服務就是分兩個變相以後農民到公所去申請的時候其實少了他的專屬QR Code的時候他的基本資料跟他過往所種植的東西他會馬上呈現不用重新用紙筆填"},{"start":519.733,"end":519.873,"text":"農業2025會不會跳票?"},{"start":534.893,"end":549.315,"text":"我們因為農電的部分是整個政府的大政策我想我們會盡努力的去你的目標是2025達到9GW對不對9G嘛對那你現在達成率是多少現在大概是38啦差不多38左右不到4喔"},{"start":550.356,"end":553.179,"text":"我想第一個部分就是現在不是地缺的問題"},{"start":568.394,"end":592.408,"text":"現在是就是農民在整個區域裡面有的農民願意配合有的農民不願意配合所以光電業者在跟農民的協調上面產生了很多的問題那另外一個部分就是他養殖的一個事實所以我們現在會重新去啟動一個機制就是光電下的這些養殖有沒有機會用集團栽培的方式由漁卿來協助"},{"start":595.35,"end":619.622,"text":"這個幾個方式、四大建議有很多媒體都有相關的研究那農業進行的路徑很明確對不對?然後呢小規模漸進來推展然後以地方創生為本那農電為地方創生來加值嘛這幾個方式都已經幫你提出了solution我希望針對這些solution你們趕快去研究怎麼樣去達成嘛那另外農地沒有人跟啊"},{"start":620.282,"end":620.882,"text":"農業比率供不應求"},{"start":649.048,"end":673.864,"text":"我們現在是一萬兩千人,台河大概將近八千人還不到,還有四千個名額在那邊。那四千名額主要是真的哪些產業?沒有,農糧的申請比較多,其他的反而申請的比較少。是不是你推廣不夠,有很多人跟我反映說他這個都缺工,都找不到,比方說這個漁業缺工啊,養殖業也缺工啊。"},{"start":675.185,"end":694.726,"text":"我們漁業給他的名額他並沒有用完那是不是推廣不夠啊為什麼有很多人說啊這個根本已經移工還不夠不過移工本身喔可能有一部分是牽涉到後端的管理跟居住的問題啦那這個部分我想我們會更積極的去協助所以從112年到現在那人口已經移工人數1.2萬對不對1.2萬目前是足夠的"},{"start":698.035,"end":714.622,"text":"大概合了將近8000人還有4000人因為你門檻太高啦你門檻太高所以就沒有辦法他有資格去申請這個移工嘛所以我認為說你門檻適度做調整一下就滿了"},{"start":715.562,"end":715.582,"text":"好,謝謝!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}