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六席委員游易蘭委員等4人"},{"start":2029.296,"end":2053.108,"text":"人員11月29日核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽稅同有關人員行政法人國家原子能科技研究院董事長張欣稅同有關人員行政院主席總署公務域申訴專門委員黃子涵行政院主席總署基金域申訴科長周明正11月30日國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳俊英稅同有關人員行政法人國家災害防救科技中心董事長陳中全"},{"start":2054.048,"end":2080.26,"text":"行政法人國家太空中心董事長吳政忠、行政院主席總署公務預算處專門委員李玉柔、行政院主席總署基金預算處科長柳亦阿斐、主席政交局委員立文。11月29日報告事項,宣讀上次議事錄,決定議事錄確定。討論事項,因審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案,為審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管,"},{"start":2080.82,"end":2087.783,"text":"能科技研究院預算案本日議程由委員張大萬謙等12人提出質詢均經核能安全委員會主任委員程東陽及相關人員及答覆說明並由委員萬美玲等二人提出書面質詢決議。議報告及詢討完畢。二委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀律並刊登公報。"},{"start":2108.013,"end":2110.136,"text":"三、繼續審查112年度及113年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。"},{"start":2126.372,"end":2147.399,"text":"囊科技研究院預算案相關提案其餘12月1日中午12時前提出並定期繼續審查11月30日討論事項一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關其任任主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2148.259,"end":2165.365,"text":"第三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學研區管理局追基金附屬單位預算案。四、繼續審查113年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案。五、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案。"},{"start":2166.265,"end":2192.931,"text":"決議一、一來三年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及基金委員會及所屬單位預算案審查完畢。審查結果如下稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入國家科學及基金委員會照列新竹科學園區管理局照列中部科學園區管理局照列南部科學園區管理局照列第三款歸費收入新竹科學園區管理局照列中部科學園區管理局照列南部科學園區管理局照列第四款財產收入國家科學及基金委員會照列"},{"start":2193.431,"end":2212.374,"text":"新竹科學人區管理局照列中部科學人區管理局照列南部科學人區管理局照列第7款其他收入國家科學及技術委員會照列新竹科學人區管理局照列中部科學人區管理局照列南部科學人區管理局照列說出部分第22款國家科學及技術委員會主管第一項"},{"start":2213.315,"end":2220.602,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會原例581億6453萬1千元除第六目非營業特種基金第一階國家科學技術發展基金430億3187萬6千元佔照列四、所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整外期與均照列"},{"start":2229.751,"end":2258.403,"text":"本項通貨決議六十九項第二項新竹科學人群管理局八一八千二百一四萬四千元招列本項通貨決議九項第三項中度科學人群管理局五一零六百零四萬二千元招列本項通貨決議八項第四項南部科學人群管理局元略十一億一千三百零四萬二千元除第二目非營業特種基金第一階科學人群管理局作業基金三一零二百八十九萬四千元佔招列四、所屬非營業特種基金審議確定任意調整外企業均招列"},{"start":2258.903,"end":2281.154,"text":"本項通過決議九項。二、113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案審查單據。審查結果如下。一、又計劃因依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整。二、基金來源用途及局處。一、基金來源照列。二、基金用途照列。三、本局短處照列。"},{"start":2282.855,"end":2286.581,"text":"3、截角工處無劣數4、補辦運送無劣數5、固定資產建設改良擴充無劣數6、通過決議5項"},{"start":2291.696,"end":2315.103,"text":"313年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學階級處委員會主管科學領域管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案審查完全審查結果如下。一、業務計劃一、依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金應用等項目審查結果,隨同調整。二、業務收支一、業務總收入照列二、業務總支出照列三、本期聲明照列"},{"start":2315.743,"end":2329.636,"text":"三、截了公庫淨額5連署四、轉投資計劃5連署五、供應資產建設改良庫中照列六、國家增波基金額照列七、補辦預算5連署八、通過決議一項四、113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":2330.817,"end":2350.474,"text":"防舊科技中心預算案審查完畢。一、繼續審查報告提報願有,不須交予討論、協商。願意討論時,由政交期委員立文補充說明,審查結果如下。國家災害防舊科技中心103年度預算書案因業務計劃因應據業務收支固定資產建設改良擴充及資金運用等項之審查結果,隨同調整。"},{"start":2351.915,"end":2377.64,"text":"2、業務收支1、業務總收入照列2、業務總支出照列3、本期短處照列3、截了公募淨額無列數4、轉投資計劃無列數5、固定資產建設改良擴充照列6、資產經運用依據業務收支及固定資產建設改良擴充等項之審查結果隨同調整。期通過決議一項。5、112年度及113年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案審查完畢。"},{"start":2378.4,"end":2394.451,"text":"您均審查報告提報院會,不需交由黨團協商。院會討論時,由政召集委員立文補充說明,審查結果如下。國家太空中心112年度預算書案依依業務計劃,依依據業務措施固定資產建設改良庫中及資金運用等項之審查結果,隨同調整。"},{"start":2395.812,"end":2411.745,"text":"2、業務收支1、業務總收入造劣2、業務總支出造劣3、本期短處造劣3、固定資產建設改良庫中無劣數4、國庫增波基金有無劣數5、資金運用因依據業務收支及固定資產建設改良庫中等項目審查結果隨同調整。"},{"start":2413.787,"end":2429.515,"text":"國家化工中心113年度預算書案一、業務計劃一、一區業務收支固定資產建設改良擴充及資金運用等項之審查結果隨同調整二、業務收支一、業務總收入照列二、業務總支出照列三、短期短處"},{"start":2431.196,"end":2444.682,"text":"趙烈3、固定資產建設改良庫中無劣數4、國庫增多基金額無劣數5、資金運用因依據業務授之及固定資產建設改良庫中等項之審查結果,隨同調整有、透過決議項"},{"start":2445.942,"end":2469.174,"text":"六、對於委員質詢要求停用相關資料或未集囊附部分及相關機關技術以書面答覆。七、在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員因113年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商制範例整理。八、113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案。行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":2469.734,"end":2488.65,"text":"科學延續管理局作為基金附屬單位預算案行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案緊112年度緊113年度行政法人國家控制中心預算案全部審查完略修律完畢請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":2490.051,"end":2490.931,"text":"科技研究院預算案。"},{"start":2518.638,"end":2545.341,"text":"首先介紹在場委員先介紹陳培宇委員陳秀寶委員張亮萬堅委員林怡瑾委員其次介紹現場官員與會官員核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽核能安全委員會副主任委員國家原子能科技研究院董事長張欣"},{"start":2547.523,"end":2558.472,"text":"行政院主計總處公務預算處專門科員黃小娟行政院主計總處基金預算處科長周明正介紹黃國書委員"},{"start":2566.035,"end":2590.845,"text":"好,現在進行預算案審查請議事人員宣讀預算數及提案內容核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案即68案核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案即11案行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預算案即1案並進行討論與協商討論時如有新增或修正文字之主決議請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":2598.905,"end":2618.551,"text":"第三年度中央政府總預算案核能安全委員會及所屬收支部分稅務部分第二款保款及補償收入核能安全委員會及所屬181萬元第三款對費收入核能安全委員會及所屬14025萬5千元第四款財產收入2萬元第七款其他收入核能安全委員會及所屬899000元"},{"start":2620.251,"end":2649.129,"text":"第二稅出部分第二款行政院主管核能安全委員會及所屬31,161萬8千元一般行政611,220萬9千元原子能管理發展業務233,866萬1千元一般建築及設備五列署第一備金200萬元環境輻射偵測好我們現在來審核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案首先是核安會的稅出那麼第一案跟第二案"},{"start":2650.249,"end":2676.027,"text":"張亮萬堅委員請發言我想是這個道路地區的旅費當然因為前110、111到今年8月為止都是諮詢都零都沒有這個那你們當然有說明說大概我們很多委員在關心就是說因為中國的沿海有很多的這個核能發電那不排除未來一年有前往中國的需求不排除那這個部分"},{"start":2676.927,"end":2697.723,"text":"當然如果有溝通是最好啦齁那這個部分我當然也可以這個必凍結啦齁那也希望說這個真的能夠有機會能夠了解跟溝通齁那第二個就是有關那個國外旅費的部分因為我當時拿到的資料到8月只有43齁那你們說其實到11月底已經達到81.66了齁所以我這個凍結案當然我可以不凍結齁謝謝沒有齁好那"},{"start":2709.679,"end":2713.367,"text":"第一幕一般行政第三案到第七案"},{"start":2715.488,"end":2743.37,"text":"有委員要發言的嗎?黃國書委員我們核安會改制了那明年度的預算30億那這個30億裡頭其中有七成也就是21億其實是要補助給我們的國原院也就是說我們七成的錢其實是補助另外一個單位他們的營運不管沒關係"},{"start":2745.692,"end":2759.59,"text":"我們來檢討一下那核安會那剩下來的多少錢要做什麼剩下來的經費我們來檢討看看照理講我們現在改制之後那我們的人員增加"},{"start":2761.107,"end":2782.235,"text":"還是增加那增加之後所需的人事費4億照112年的法定預算其實是增加的所以這個部分可不可以請我們核安會這邊來說明也就是說我們到底現在還有多少業務要推動"},{"start":2783.413,"end":2801.172,"text":"然後我們的這麼多的經費占那麼高的比例其實不是另外一個單位那剩下來的經費我們又聘了非常多的人那這些人對於我們現在的業務的推動實際的作為是什麼我想這個可能要請我們核安會來說明一下好以上"},{"start":2803.434,"end":2818.626,"text":"謝謝黃委員,非常好的給我這個機會來澄清首先核安會跟我們國研院那兩個的形式是不一樣的核安會是執行公務"},{"start":2820.467,"end":2838.696,"text":"公務法律賦予的責任是核安、府安、放射性核物料的管制和審查。這是公務法律賦予的責任。國研院是做科技研發的工作,來支持核安會的主要業務。"},{"start":2843.698,"end":2847.741,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全"},{"start":2866.336,"end":2866.956,"text":"第四提案"},{"start":2888.771,"end":2890.492,"text":"核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":2915.9,"end":2934.747,"text":"那部分又沒有預算,那到底,我在質詢有提到,就是說它到底是需要的還是只是一個原額編制?是一個原額編制而已,那這個在過去原能會的時代就已經是編在我們這邊。祖密那一天也有做一些詳細的說明,那如果必要的話祖密可以再說明一下。"},{"start":2937.478,"end":2954.649,"text":"我是主任律師王重德有關於20個空缺的部分這個是歷史歷史就是當時從科技部核安署的部分當時就有空留這20個元額後來因為改成主改變的核安會以後那當時行政院是有空管這20個元額"},{"start":2955.93,"end":2957.131,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":2974.787,"end":2979.988,"text":"好 我的問題是延續同樣這個問題我提的第7案因為你們剛剛講了說明了這些人力的這個調整的這個問題但是問題是說你們編列了7560萬餘元就是要做這個辦公廳設的裝修因為剛剛說的因為移撥的人力還有新進人力的辦公空間所以為這個東西那跟剛剛你們說明的"},{"start":3001.092,"end":3020.544,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家"},{"start":3027.621,"end":3047.137,"text":"謝謝召委。辦公廳社這個裝修這個名詞我想不是太適當,弄得不是原來的本意。裝修有幾個意涵,第一個是改成三級機關之後,我們有一些的廳社,比如說主委的辦公室,他要縮小。"},{"start":3048.138,"end":3072.136,"text":"副主委的辦公室本來有兩位也要減少32個人也要移入那麼我們有一些的這個老舊的這個設備像冷氣那這個地方要做一些增修有安全消防的部分那麼這個部分我想在同仁給這個召委的說明裡面都有一些細節"},{"start":3073.517,"end":3100.978,"text":"所以這個是我想這個裝修這兩個字本身的意涵不是太好啦沒有反映這個原來的本質跟趙偉說明所以你們把原有譬如說像這個你們的辦公室減少然後副主委人數變少了減少然後再增加辦公廳的空間給這32個人"},{"start":3121.122,"end":3129.068,"text":"消防的法規必須符合那所以也跟著修改好那請問一下兩位委員的意見黃委員"},{"start":3135.885,"end":3150.399,"text":"這樣子啦 核安會是這樣核安會主改之後當然你們的編制一定不可能比之前的原人會的編制還大嘛 是吧再來 你們的業務也不可能比之前的原人會的業務還大嘛 是不是"},{"start":3151.48,"end":3152.361,"text":"主管核電廠除役除役"},{"start":3179.637,"end":3205.587,"text":"三個核電廠加起來他的period超過25年因為有人先走有人慢走所以超過30年那這裡面的核廢料一些安全的這個工作其實跟等同於運轉期間所以這個部分是很重要的課題我要跟委員報告我了解其實核安會要告訴我們就是說即便是主改之後看起來是降級了但是我們的業務"},{"start":3207.622,"end":3218.144,"text":"一、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子一、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子一、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子一、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":3238.274,"end":3266.267,"text":"我們這個整個預算的配置包括在人力的部分那為什麼會還增加那你說辦公廳設的裝修既然都已經變成現在是獨立單位了那為什麼還會有增加費用可能是你們可主改之後的名稱可能要改變了辦公室的配置可能要做一些調整可能衍生了一些費用而這衍生的費用合不合理就這個樣子而已那你要跟我們說明"},{"start":3267.369,"end":3282.941,"text":"就是說這個主委啊你們這個預算增加是不是一點點是增加幾乎兩倍欸這個部分你這個對啊到為什麼為什麼會這樣子啊那個邱主任還是主秘來說一些細節說明"},{"start":3288.998,"end":3299.228,"text":"趙偉跟各位委員報告一下如果說以原人會主管的話在112年的部分我們今年是27億然後未來的話是那邱主任你講"},{"start":3313.391,"end":3336.607,"text":"報告委員我是橫安會秘書室主任我姓邱慶威那跟委員報告主要我們這個裝修的這個費用我們從以前的原能會從91年辦到現在這個辦公的這個場所那我們中間都沒有異動那這一次我們在調整這個室內空間的時候因為我們涉及到一些科別的增加雖然我們能力的部分其實"},{"start":3337.227,"end":3361.681,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3361.721,"end":3379.613,"text":"您們本來這個預算的規模就這一幕是三億五千多萬那你們現在增加到六億一千多萬你剛剛這個裝修的部分已經回答過了就剛剛黃國書委員的問題那為什麼你們這個要增加到將近三千萬兩千六百萬兩億六千萬"},{"start":3386.639,"end":3387.039,"text":"主席主任"},{"start":3416.328,"end":3420.271,"text":"你看沒檢討,它是放在他們的業務計畫裡面有有有就是他原來預算就切一部分人員維持費到我們這邊來八千多萬"},{"start":3452.516,"end":3478.974,"text":"我跟昭緯報告還有物管局那個物管局也併入我們會裡面變成物管組他本來是附屬單位那個物管局以前預算大概是八千多萬包含人事費那現在的經費是兩千萬為什麼呢?因為人事費拨進會裡邊的一起算"},{"start":3480.194,"end":3501.314,"text":"所以我們預算變2000萬跟主改前幾乎是一樣那人力我直接在管我知道我人原來有42個那現在39個包括加上已經移進來的32個裡面我們分到4個所以現在是39個"},{"start":3502.737,"end":3514.004,"text":"工作光是盤點已經看得到已經台電計畫書都看得到的設施就會增加9個請問一下黃委員跟張賴灣建委員的意見"},{"start":3526.155,"end":3552.686,"text":"好,看這一幕有沒有要動啦,看有沒有要動啦,那我覺得你們一個比較完整的說明啦,包括人力的配置,你的業務滋長,增加的狀況,我覺得這個還是要有一個說明啦,我覺得這一幕看起來,著動一點點,那我們著動一點啦,好不好,然後你們把這個我們剛剛所有的問題綜合整理一個比較完整的具體的書面說明,好不好,那動多少呢?"},{"start":3556.394,"end":3581.751,"text":"好,那就凍結100萬加書面說明我們就是然後這個第三案跟第六案改成主決議那接下來第二幕第八案到第38案就是原本的這個原子能管理發展業務還有核能研究所的業務現在都併到這邊來了"},{"start":3585.6,"end":3613.536,"text":"陳培宇委員陳秀寶委員林怡瑾委員張廖旺英堅委員張綺露委員陳培宇主席在這一幕我們有三案第一個是第15案關於社會溝通的部分就是他們長期有在做科普活動還有所謂全民參與委員會那我們會特別強調科普是因為只要每次到了選舉前所有關於這個核安的訊息就會被做成非常多假資訊的圖卡"},{"start":3615.057,"end":3637.715,"text":"我們覺得與其遇到這些假資訊的圖卡的時候才開始澄清不如應該在平常有非常非常多機會不管是透過活動、透過演講、透過各式各樣的活動讓人民理解核安這件事情而不是遇到事情的時候才出來解釋我相信科學家跟一般人在理解這些事情上一定有一些落差所以我們希望持續監督關於科普的部分"},{"start":3639.835,"end":3660.221,"text":"提到關於全民參與委員會的部分雖然當時有回答說是半年原則上是半年召開一次但我們其實也很想問一下有沒有機會多多增加跟民眾溝通的機會跟相關的頻率第17案的部分我先說一下剛剛第15案我們沒有要堅持凍結的數字我們可以合併處理"},{"start":3661.281,"end":3683.193,"text":"十七案的部分關於國研院的部分剛國書委員說到光是補給國研院就21億高達了七成但是我們擔心國研院會不會又再把相關的研究外包那其實就會產生監督上的困難所以這個部分我們認為應該要更加精進監督這個預算的部分那這個我們專案報告可以改成書面報告那預算的部分可以並動"},{"start":3684.514,"end":3703.127,"text":"二十四案提到關於星島館跟血管攝影S光機之前也跟你們溝通過了那我們希望這些業務真的可以落實並且審慎辦理來確保相關從業人員的健康管理追蹤那這一案的預算提案凍結數不堅持一案可以並動好以上謝謝"},{"start":3706.434,"end":3731.029,"text":"我們接下來請陳秀寶委員在這一幕裡面我的案子有五個案子第一個案子是針對這次聯合國的氣候變化綱要公約第28次締約方會議這個部分那我這邊是希望說和安慰你們這邊也說明一下說現在國際能源發展趨勢因為有這樣子的走向那我們自己本身我們自己有在做綠能產業應用科技術發展的計畫"},{"start":3735.512,"end":3738.054,"text":"第14案 核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管"},{"start":3759.514,"end":3779.875,"text":"總計只有13000多次。平均一年下載的下載量大概只有2200多次。這個下載量真的比較少。所以這個部分我也希望說核安會你們在113年能夠盡力去推廣。自己要定一個目標至少一年至少沒有五六千次也要有三四千次的下載量。"},{"start":3780.876,"end":3782.077,"text":"第18個案是關於綠能產業技術應用計畫相關經費。"},{"start":3798.812,"end":3818.109,"text":"我們核安會來辦理這個所謂的綠能產業應用計畫發展計畫也有說明說這個部分呢是針對說生殖能以及儲能設備相關的研究計畫那這個部分呢這個案子我可以改成主決議但是請核安會這邊你們要跟中研院這邊密切來合作在中研院建設的近年排放科這個"},{"start":3819.09,"end":3824.234,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":3843.789,"end":3868.324,"text":"這個部分是辦理國家海域放射性物質擴散預警以及安全評估應對計劃等相關的這些作業核安會這邊你們有說明說你們有跟漁業署合作配合漁船出海作業去做採樣那所以你們這個更新的這個頻率沒有那麼快那這邊我是希望說請核安會你們要評估看看是不是能夠增加你們檢測的頻率提高檢測的頻率因為民眾一直對這種"},{"start":3869.895,"end":3896.153,"text":"放射性物質的排放對我們的安全、對我們的生活、對我們食物、食品的影響都很有疑慮所以甚至也會連帶影響到應該會影響到漁產品、農業產品的消費衝擊到市場所以這邊是不是請我們能夠提高檢測的頻率而且我們一定要迅速的公佈檢測的結果那民眾可以安心第五個案子是第37案這個部分是關於提升民眾對輻射災害應變診斷值的相關經費"},{"start":3900.095,"end":3900.855,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":3925.236,"end":3927.937,"text":"衛生委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管"},{"start":3954.807,"end":3975.12,"text":"每到這個時候就會有很多這種假序型圖卡來誤導民眾那如果說我們看到假序型的圖卡之後再做澄清就覺得這樣是太被動是不是我們自己也可以主動先推出正確的核安訊息的圖卡我們自己就是相關的訊息我們有在做的那要給民眾一些正確的訊息宣導的這些部分我們就先做出來"},{"start":3975.7,"end":3975.9,"text":"接下來請林益錦委員"},{"start":3996.64,"end":4024.055,"text":"謝謝主席我在這目有三個案子首先是第二、三案二、三案是有關於將這個六幅畫又安定化處理處置經費這個項目那因為我們這個其實是想要將這個儲存的這個六幅畫又送往境外處理然後進行安定化的處理跟處置"},{"start":4025.356,"end":4049.32,"text":"當然本來看起來是完成的期限一再延展而且已經四度修正這個計畫的展期那因為這個進度都有延宕那所以當然有提一些凍結的案子可是因為這個核安會上週四的說明讓我們知道說這個預計在明年的1月底"},{"start":4050.28,"end":4068.912,"text":"獲得許可文件,9月執行運送作業,並在12月底完成檢測分析及所有權轉移。既然已交代完整期程,我同意改成主決議,後續請核安會積極辦理。"},{"start":4073.894,"end":4097.004,"text":"二十九案有關海域穿水監控跨部會合作相關預算當我們想關注日本排放寒川廢水的議題的時候我覺得很可能我們也忽略到其實更大的排放國就是我們在隔壁的中國"},{"start":4098.737,"end":4123.715,"text":"核安會王主任秘書日前就有向媒體表示說以2019年的數據來看中國核電廠一年川排放的總量約比日本多了7到8倍而且中國的川沸水的排放量最大的四座核電廠加起來每年就比日本福島計畫排放量多到5到7倍"},{"start":4124.415,"end":4125.156,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":4144.087,"end":4145.548,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":4157.495,"end":4181.994,"text":"除了現行針對日本寒川沸水這個排放的各項監測作為外那我們對於中國的寒川沸水的排放又有哪些因應的措施未來怎麼樣加強強化這個監測並且提供更透明開放的訊息給民眾讓大家能夠安心也讓台灣受到的衝擊降到最低"},{"start":4182.754,"end":4190.493,"text":"所以這一案我當然不堅持要鬥多少待會再大家一併來處理好那另外一個案子是第"},{"start":4192.534,"end":4220.003,"text":"第35案那這個案子當然也跟核廢料處理有關係喔主要是關心如果核一、核二的室外竿組遲遲未能啟用那麼我們每年需要額外付出到底有多少成本或者我們要承擔什麼樣的風險我們知道說採取竿式組存有很多的優點"},{"start":4221.323,"end":4228.545,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":4246.609,"end":4268.043,"text":"設施的啟用與否對於後續除役的作業有什麼樣實質的影響那如果能及時啟用那每年預期可以節省多少的經濟成本那並提升除役過度的階段有哪些面向的核安防護那這一案我也是不堅持凍結多少再跟大家一併處理以上謝謝"},{"start":4269.707,"end":4293.527,"text":"好,我們先請張亮萬堅委員,然後待會先讓那個何安慧回答,我們在後面好,請張亮萬堅我有三案,第16案,第16案也是有關我諮詢過了就是有關那個六福化幼的這個處理的計畫那當然從這個計畫大概從104年開始就編列預算那到今年為止每年的預算諮詢率都不超過5%那今年呢其實也才執行108萬1千元"},{"start":4295.228,"end":4311.204,"text":"那當然國研院的說明是說113年度會完成該專案計畫那是否可能可以達到我是有點質疑那你們當然有說明就是說這個延後的原因是因為英國的運輸容器還在申請執照那你們也是預計預計113年1月底可以得到執照"},{"start":4315.007,"end":4334.261,"text":"獲得執照後113年的中下旬在進行國內運輸9月底才進行海運作業那也是說113年底這都是計畫也是預計那其實我在審預算前幾年我都看到你們也都說預計預計後來都因故又延後所以我"},{"start":4335.041,"end":4336.762,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":4365.282,"end":4366.704,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":4376.767,"end":4397.328,"text":"你們有說明說因為你們沒有這個自己的船能夠去取樣所以只能協調相關單位或漁協來協助那國人很關注這個廢水排放後對整個環境跟漁獲的影響那我們是建議說核安會應該盡量這個增加這個取樣的頻率以確保我國民安全這個使用這個海產的安全"},{"start":4398.029,"end":4398.389,"text":"第三十三案"},{"start":4416.881,"end":4429.112,"text":"也是有關核一核二現在已經進入除役了吼那因為燃料池都已滿了那現在爐心你的燃料棒沒有辦法退出那台電是有提出這個所謂的用過核子燃料最終處置計畫"},{"start":4431.899,"end":4452.187,"text":"這個計劃目前處於候選長子評選及核定階段,期程107年至117年。現在看起來,不僅最終處置候選長子沒有規劃,連乾式儲存廠都還沒有興建,也都是在提出建造申請中。核安會應該要加強對台電的"},{"start":4453.847,"end":4455.488,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":4478.856,"end":4479.397,"text":"何安惠回答"},{"start":4493.702,"end":4517.814,"text":"首先非常謝謝陳秀寶委員、陳培宇委員、林一景委員跟張亮萬娟委員非常建設性的一些建議那這些都是我們業務的核心那首先我想先請那個其司組長負責這一幕的這個我們業務的組長來做一些說明那其他的部分我再請其他組長來做一些補充謝謝"},{"start":4519.254,"end":4546.368,"text":"主席、各位委員我是中規組的組長李其思以下先就這個委員都非常關心民眾溝通的這一塊核安會也知道民眾溝通是這個非常重要的所以我們從108年起就辦理科普產分別朝向、分林、分眾、城市、偏鄉還有弱勢族群我們都會不管實體或是線上我們都會做相關的這個原子能科技的一個溝通跟宣導"},{"start":4547.268,"end":4569.389,"text":"這部分我們還是會持續辦理當然現在我們會結合數位化的方式來進行這項工作第二個剛才委員有提到全民參與委員會的事前我想現在剛好我們也是一個逐改的階段我們變成安全的獨立機關所以整個如何跟民眾溝通的這些管道我們也希望聽各方的意見跟我們建議所以這一塊我們會整個來考量整個"},{"start":4572.612,"end":4599.875,"text":"全民參與委員會的運作模式另外還有委員也非常關切這個核安一點通的APP這個下載率不足這個當然我們是屬於知識型的防災的一個APP它當然有它先天上的一個限制但是無論如何我們也會遵照委員的指示我們一定會在各種場合包括在跟民眾宣導上課的時候我們也會鼓勵民眾來下載這個APP"},{"start":4601.696,"end":4625.549,"text":"當然民眾這個核安一點通的APP只是核安會對外溝通的管道之一但是每個管道我們都會把它做得更好所以這部分非常謝謝委員的指教以上好謝謝齁那個再下來齁我們請這個呃高組長齁來講一下那個室內乾除室外乾除齁啟用的部分齁"},{"start":4629.352,"end":4651.793,"text":"是,那個我想我這邊的話,我是務管組啦委員關切在這一段的話有,我剛剛聽到有兩個議題一個是,一個是甘楚,一個是地下實驗室啦甘楚這個目前的確像委員所講的"},{"start":4653.73,"end":4679.831,"text":"從私儲走到甘儲再進儲置大概目前大家都接受國際上也都這樣接受了那我們現在走到甘儲看到甘儲說停在那邊甘儲的情況我們的確是光就甘儲這個議題是跟台電的管制會議是一個月就要一次持續不斷已經好多年了那以一起的室外的部分"},{"start":4681.34,"end":4702.449,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":4702.449,"end":4721.34,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4721.5,"end":4723.041,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":4744.318,"end":4771.392,"text":"那有關地下實驗室我是跟委員說明因為好幾位委員有關心到地下實驗室這個處置的那個進展那地下實驗室是這樣子我們其實是不斷的在要求台電公司高放的處置的整體要跟上國際上的腳步因為國際上已經做了好幾十年一定要跟上來那這裡面有兩個方向要努力"},{"start":4773.174,"end":4797.568,"text":"一個就是他的安全評估的技術要跟上來第二個就是要取得有用的數據那現在委員關切的是取得數據這一部分光就今年最近的我們在台電的這個案子的管制會議上就直接要求直接要求說應要儘早取得數據"},{"start":4798.925,"end":4824.868,"text":"那台電的回應是說我們也是跟他討論就是說他們會想辦法去參加國際上的相關的合作計畫因為目前跑得最快是芬蘭那芬蘭他有一個開放性的合作計畫他們會去參與那整個就是一個地下實驗室從這邊取經回來把有用的做法"},{"start":4826.37,"end":4833.614,"text":"我們會持續的去關注去監督台電能夠做好這部分的規劃以上報告"},{"start":4842.9,"end":4843.041,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":4860.359,"end":4874.229,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":4887.159,"end":4888.62,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":4915.691,"end":4940.026,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":4940.146,"end":4957.592,"text":"於火的部分就是由於夜暑來去詳細的公布那我們這部分就是去做一個海水的一個公布那這邊就先跟委員做一個一個口頭報告那有關於就是大陸電廠的這一邊就是不管我們是在海水的監測107點我們都有包括"},{"start":4961.067,"end":4982.039,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4982.299,"end":4990.463,"text":"的一個漁產他的一個代表的漁獲來去做對應的一個取樣那在我們這部分因為大陸的一個如果事故我們會區分兩個就是氣體排放那如果是有氣體排放我們在周圍有有全台灣有設置了63站的這個即時的因為因為那個氣體是可以用即時監測所以我們有63站在離島也都有布點"},{"start":5008.951,"end":5019.399,"text":"第107年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案第106年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案第107年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案第106年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5033.37,"end":5058.183,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5058.263,"end":5059.284,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":5084.329,"end":5085.05,"text":"國研院高子木"},{"start":5107.214,"end":5123.344,"text":"郭議員、高子牧,跟各位委員做一個說明。針對臧料委員所提及六幅畫幼的問題,今年為什麼遇到困難?主要是我們這個六幅畫幼的成分跟一般的物料不一樣,它是特殊的核物料,運送的櫃子。"},{"start":5125.685,"end":5146.212,"text":"必須要經過英國核能管制單位的一個審查才能夠通過才能開始運送所以導致我們這個一再延宕對委員我們實在是非常抱歉所以今年在上個月我們把負責主旗式的化工所的所長跟副所長請他到英國正式跟他協商同時這兩天"},{"start":5148.433,"end":5149.114,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊緊緊"},{"start":5178.833,"end":5197.425,"text":"能夠改組決議文,讓我們能夠...抱歉,我再做一個說明,我們會盡全力以全院的力量來把它達成這個任務,第10年任務,希望在第10年結束的時候我們能夠跟明年在跟院裡報告的時候能夠順利達標。感謝委員,謝謝。好,我們接下來請張綺路委員"},{"start":5210.527,"end":5231.962,"text":"我這邊在這一幕有兩案第一11案我很快速的講一下這邊最主要是因為我們這一幕的這個預算高達20多億那其實最重要的就是所謂這個原子能科學發展它有21億左右那簡單的講就是說這邊這一案我為什麼提就是因為"},{"start":5232.602,"end":5250.913,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5250.913,"end":5268.882,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5268.882,"end":5270.043,"text":"委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管"},{"start":5286.431,"end":5288.873,"text":"第34案核一核二的乾式儲存設施到底要怎麼樣"},{"start":5314.974,"end":5344.394,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5345.325,"end":5345.505,"text":"主席"},{"start":5359.918,"end":5388.807,"text":"是涉及到核災演習的資訊傳播過程應該要能夠盡可能的顧及多元跟弱勢族群的權益因為之前的原能會現在的核安會在新北市萬里跟石門地區辦理過核安第29號演習主要是以核二廠遭遇複合式災害為主題進行演習我們知道在那裡其實涉及到觀光客他有不同的國籍也涉及到不同的"},{"start":5389.107,"end":5411.251,"text":"主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會"},{"start":5414.552,"end":5436.358,"text":"資訊的落差當然我覺得還有改善的空間但是因為你們有在關注到這個問題所以我現在這個議題可以改成主決議希望核安會提出來的災害應變計畫盡可能的在資訊上顧及多元特別是弱勢族群的需求給我一個書面報告就可以以上說明 謝謝接下來請吳思瑤委員"},{"start":5440.507,"end":5465.309,"text":"謝謝我有四個案子很快速的報告19案就是這個核一製藥中心的人力確實是比較短缺那我上週的質詢主委有說我們加強趕快來聘任那看起來是明年初才要再新聘啊這我只是再提個案子提醒如果沒有專業人才就凡事萬萬不能嘛"},{"start":5466.63,"end":5471.113,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人"},{"start":5495.086,"end":5498.07,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核"},{"start":5512.19,"end":5514.091,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":5535.365,"end":5554.292,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":5564.56,"end":5568.622,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家"},{"start":5587.782,"end":5608.613,"text":"我只是要再提醒說對食安的把關寒川的這個檢測他的這些設的這些點一個是我們自己提升量能我們可以跟國家級的不管是食藥署或者是我們和安會自己國園院的機構來做寒川食品的檢測但是"},{"start":5610.814,"end":5610.834,"text":"請黃國書委員"},{"start":5638.332,"end":5661.993,"text":"好,這一幕我的案子是10案跟3、4案剛剛核安會大概有說明了啦,好好那不過3、4、2案有關於那個地下實驗室的推動現在當然還碰到一些困難不過我想問一個基本的立場我想問一下核安會現在主改之後因為現在核一場、核二場都已經進入除疫階段了"},{"start":5663.063,"end":5664.844,"text":"第二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":5682.227,"end":5684.608,"text":"主管總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急"},{"start":5702.259,"end":5727.006,"text":"核電作為一個能源即便現在的技術可能會做到安全無虞即便是這個樣子但是在台灣我們還是要面臨那最終處置場怎麼處理啊這個不是誰執政之後大家都可以閃躲的最終處置場它最大的困難就在於它放置的地點的地方它必須要公投嘛"},{"start":5727.608,"end":5747.607,"text":"那之前台電有規劃說要在臺東的達仁鄉或是金門的烏丘等等這是初步暫時的規劃即便是這個樣子地方要公投那公投不會過 那你最終的處置場你就找不到地方放那這個議題什麼時候會發生現在都已經面臨了因為已經在處理了你未來最終處置場你還是要決定這個場址"},{"start":5751.591,"end":5753.973,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":5770.783,"end":5790.74,"text":"是我們是我們核安會吧現在是核安會嘛對不對所以我也想利用今天應該是這一屆最後一次跟核安會的預算審查會議了所以我也想了解一下核安會就是之前的原能會在主改之後核安會的立場會是什麼"},{"start":5791.32,"end":5808.679,"text":"可不可能去修改地方條例裡頭的最終組織場地方要公投的這一個規定那核安會的立場會是什麼這個立場會影響到未來台灣要不要繼續發展核電好以上"},{"start":5810.43,"end":5829.906,"text":"接下來是我的提案,我有兩個提案第一個提案呢,是像剛剛張祺祿委員講的跟我講的其實是同一件事情那這個東西真的是我覺得太畸形了你這個國園會的預算佔了高達整體預算的七成然後佔了我們這一幕的九成那你這個"},{"start":5832.714,"end":5833.815,"text":"主管核安全委員會主管國家原子"},{"start":5853.443,"end":5869.1,"text":"這個東西的這樣子的一個設置這個剛剛因為張其路委員已經說過了我就不再多說了這是我的第一個提案第二個提案呢就是有關於這個地下實驗室的這個部分剛剛雖然已經有做了一個回答了但是這個"},{"start":5871.092,"end":5893.964,"text":"非同小可,非常關鍵這跟你們這個核安會負責台電公司去執行的這個用過核子燃料最終處置計劃裡面你現在卡在這邊這個沒有過你前面做的是白做的後面也做不下去欸所以這個東西如果沒有一個很具體的處理方式就靠台電說的這個東西是非常非常不靠譜的"},{"start":5895.305,"end":5913.36,"text":"那麼這個東西我們的相關的規定是非常的清楚的你第一階段你既然國際原子能總署都已經建議要求說我們必須要做地下實驗室那這個東西是沒有辦法跳過去的喔所以光是您剛說的強力的勸說這個東西台電到底什麼時候"},{"start":5917.964,"end":5939.535,"text":"可以具體的去跟芬蘭合作因為你這變成還要看看芬蘭的狀況嗎不是我們自己可以決定跟主導的然後你這個關卡是完全牽涉到這個計畫會不會最後形同作廢啊所以我覺得這個事情還是必須要給台電足夠的壓力啦好這是我的補充那先請你們回答"},{"start":5941.329,"end":5941.449,"text":"委員會主管核"},{"start":5971.629,"end":5985.077,"text":"的interaction監督的機制我想我不是不熟悉那麼我想我們幾位同仁知道齊師組長會做一些補充那麼等一下我再請其他幾位組長來齊師"},{"start":5987.136,"end":6012.248,"text":"是,主席還有各位委員確實如主席還有委員講的目前國營院的營運大概我們編了21億左右佔了我們大概7成多的預算當然這些經費編列是要延續原來核研所所執行的一些中長城科技研發和設施清理還有全國小產業放射性廢棄物收儲等這些國家任務為主"},{"start":6013.568,"end":6042.146,"text":"當然也因應這個我們還特別訂定了一個國家原子能科技研究院的績效評鑑辦法我們去從外部找委員來針對國研院的一些發展一些計畫來做相關的評鑑我們找相關的機關、學者專家、社會的公正人士等等我們也知道說國研院的績效好壞直接影響到核安會的績效所以這一部分我們謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":6042.566,"end":6068.064,"text":"我們一定會嚴格的來監督他們各項計畫的執行。以上。國營院的部分他是主要做科技的研發來support我們核安會由於政策導向的一些我們機構國家的賦予的法律的責任我想再做一些補充那下來我們請那個廖組長做一些說明"},{"start":6071.002,"end":6097.536,"text":"好,針對剛才換委員提到說演習的部分我想非常謝謝那個換委員的指導跟提醒那我們相關的事情就是當時因為看到那個也有部分是超前部署的部分那第一階段那後面有關於這個多元族群或者數位落差不我們非常注意也會有實體的核子事故的警報或者春麗廣播那這個謝謝那個委員同意改成主決議那我們會後會把完整的宿命報告再提供謝謝"},{"start":6099.246,"end":6114.236,"text":"接下來請國研院高院長談一下核一70NEV還有生物養殖場、海水養殖場的部分。謝謝委員尤其是吳委員的。"},{"start":6118.888,"end":6144.758,"text":"喂,謝謝委員剛剛提到三個議題第一個是人力的應用那個第19案人力應用我們是在主改927的時候就重新盤整把維修部門的14個人跟委員來的29位合一致要整合所以現在距離45位只差兩位那我們已經公開大概要招募上百位的那個願聘的員工那其中"},{"start":6145.919,"end":6159.835,"text":"同位數應用所就有10個人其中我們會分配兩個人到這裡補租委員所期待45位的人力第二個是有關於養殖養殖現在事實上在我們所內已經建置完成這所有的設備"},{"start":6160.896,"end":6176.425,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":6176.545,"end":6199.887,"text":"我可以先問一下這個差一下這個養殖因為跟我們在海水上去取樣是不一樣取樣我們會很快速的透過公開的系統去公開給國人嘛但是這個養殖它就是是不是它就只是一個研究它不會隨時的它就是一個梯次的研究一個階段的研究它不會是跟那個我們現在已經建制的那個公開的那個不一樣"},{"start":6200.807,"end":6211.331,"text":"跟委員報告,我們這個養殖漁類當時有跟國內中山大學有合作計畫,他們建立10種,10種漁類,所以選擇的是這樣,那海水我們有6個對照組,6個這個實驗組,兩邊會對照,有穿水跟沒穿水這樣的一個狀況,所以有20噸蠻大的一個容器,1.5公尺,20噸每一個桶子,總共12個桶,我們規劃是這樣。"},{"start":6228.057,"end":6244.731,"text":"希望盡量能夠模擬海洋的真實狀況,但是跟海洋事故還是有段落差。我們到時候研究出來的結果會說明這個差異,會跟委員再做一個報告。希望半年內能夠有一個初步的一個研究成果,有機會再來跟大院裡再來做報告。"},{"start":6245.652,"end":6256.183,"text":"adequate to the first year of the first year of the first year of the first year, but my"},{"start":6262.85,"end":6286.869,"text":"我比較痛苦是國外都要7年我們被壓縮成4年但是目前我們還是朝這個努力所謂努力的是包括這個價錢廠家報的一個高所以去年10月我到加拿大跟廠家也到歐洲去跟廠家做一個協商希望他們能夠降價那也成功降了超過1.3億的價格所以我們才有辦法支持讓我們3月時候讓回旋加速器能夠順利承讓"},{"start":6288.75,"end":6317.87,"text":"現在就是土建的問題土建因為缺工缺料我們有十個廠家最近公告十個廠家有來詢問最後有兩個廠家來領標但是第一標是上禮拜開案但是沒辦法成案只有兩家所以明天會在第二次七天會在第二次但是我是覺得價格初步了解跟廠家所期待有一點點大概20%的落差我們估計兩三成的落差所以這一方面我們再想辦法看看怎麼再去努力"},{"start":6319.151,"end":6319.751,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6336.164,"end":6353.032,"text":"否則一個這麼重要的科研的設備的建構就卡在一個研究室的那個土建的工程我覺得那個差20%你就去圖我們就我們也不會動預算也不會減預算就全力支持好不好加油再次感謝委員的支持謝謝我們最後那個陳宏斌組長談一下那個最終處置場條例的部分"},{"start":6365.205,"end":6385.164,"text":"我覺得甘楚到選址到地下試驗室應該是這樣子啦那甘楚我當然是跟張委員報告就是說我們其實我承認現在組裡邊整個工作壓力最大的就是擁有咱的甘楚"},{"start":6386.386,"end":6402.064,"text":"因為他就處在一個隨時要突破的階段所以我們所有準備工作現在一個一個趕快加快因為案子一來我們的審查是不能夠打馬虎眼的所以通通要準備好"},{"start":6402.645,"end":6403.165,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊急應變"},{"start":6429.747,"end":6430.027,"text":"經濟部會怎樣?"},{"start":6459.164,"end":6474.822,"text":"高放的選址才會來做立法的工作經濟部會做立法的工作可是這條例不是我們核安會主管的嗎那個那時候的低放的選址條例是很早的時候是assigned到原能會這個頭上"},{"start":6476.084,"end":6477.865,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管"},{"start":6493.686,"end":6510.394,"text":"我覺得說這個整個就是一個選址的行政程序其實一套就夠了只要能夠選得出來那至於說用什麼形式是我們是都OK的只要民眾都同意能夠走得通什麼形式我們都不犯太"},{"start":6511.034,"end":6539.549,"text":"台電希望最終處置場他必須要地方公投他希望把它放寬掉因為卡在那裡你根本即便你宣號紙的地方公投沒過你還是沒辦法推動啊現在是這個樣子啊如果那個沒有辦法去做更正的話其實全台灣哪一個地方哪一個地方可以可能公投同意讓你設置最終處置場現在是這個難題啊你了解我的意思嗎那現在經濟部台電那邊大概也提出想法的說希望可不可能"},{"start":6540.149,"end":6544.213,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":6560.566,"end":6574.145,"text":"出來之後兩個宣誓一合併就是希望就是說能夠走看看那核安會的立場是什麼是希望如果把公投這個程序廢掉的話那核安會的立場是什麼"},{"start":6574.885,"end":6575.646,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":6592.944,"end":6594.125,"text":"主委,我們核安會的立場是不是這個樣子?"},{"start":6617.183,"end":6639.96,"text":"核安會主要還是堅守核能的安全核廢料的安全那麼這個issue是我們專業的把關那麼也是作為獨立機關最重要的課題那麼是整個國家有關於安全上面做一個最重要的一個把關的工作"},{"start":6640.76,"end":6666.577,"text":"那麼剛才我們提到的就是修法這些其實最重要還是要全民的共識那麼這個是一個很大的課題那麼我想經濟部跟河安會跟台電其實都知道這些issue那也牽扯到一些可行性國家未來的政策的發展那大概跟委員說明"},{"start":6667.978,"end":6682.654,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":6683.496,"end":6703.652,"text":"就是這樣子啊你沒有明確的最終廚師廠選址的地點然後這個選址的程序看起來現在也卡關嘛你連現在這個地下實驗室的推動都碰到困難了嗎那個地下實驗室我就接續下來講就有那個好謝謝"},{"start":6708.948,"end":6735.702,"text":"主席謝謝我再補充一下就剛剛在提到那個川沸水的時候就是說剛剛其實有提到說我們有107個布點嘛齁那其實這樣非常那可是我們從網站上喔就是說我們核安會的網站上其實是是可以看到寒川沸水整個的這個歷史洋流的整個模擬的擴散的這個動態分析圖喔是可以看得見的這是針對日本"},{"start":6737.483,"end":6756.357,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6758.134,"end":6784.759,"text":"包括委員就是在團隊在我們的政策的一個規劃還有團技術團隊的規劃其實都有都會把那個臺灣海峽的這個納入去建置那我們預期的一個進度是明年開始我們就會開始去收集一些洋流的一些歷史的一個資料那開始希望是114年就可以開始去做這一塊的一個技術上的一個部件"},{"start":6786.42,"end":6802.695,"text":"這是有納入規劃的所以你的意思是說未來在網站上一般民眾其實上網就可以看見包括在中國就在海峽這邊的川沸水的整個洋流的擴散狀況"},{"start":6806.539,"end":6808.06,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":6824.142,"end":6827.304,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":6846.809,"end":6848.889,"text":"一千萬可以嗎?這是我的建議。"},{"start":6872.901,"end":6875.202,"text":"第12案、第13案、第14案是主決議。18案、22案、23案、26案、27案、28案、31案。"},{"start":6896.147,"end":6915.886,"text":"三十六案、三十七案、三十八案是主決議。好。二十五案主決議。謝謝。二十五案也是改成主決議。好。那接下來是第五幕。三十九案到四十四案的部分。好。請那個陳秀寶委員然後是林一錦委員。"},{"start":6919.358,"end":6922.7,"text":"五、繼續審查123年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":6940.215,"end":6952.484,"text":"核栽之後,在北部及南部有跟大專院校合作建置放射性分離備援實驗室。從107年開始就設立檢驗,每年最大檢驗的量是各3800件。但是實驗室建置之後,總檢測件數每年2個北部跟南部合起來不到300件。"},{"start":6963.592,"end":6988.712,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":6988.712,"end":7008.49,"text":"檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測"},{"start":7008.53,"end":7014.092,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":7033.806,"end":7035.747,"text":"海域重要漁場水質與回游漁類漁種輻射安全評估的相關經費。"},{"start":7051.656,"end":7057.56,"text":"我覺得你們這個在跟民眾溝通這一塊應該要更加強其實一般民眾對相關輻射的知識的認知本來就不如你們核安會的專業那如果你們既然做了檢測要覺得是沒有問題的數據上是OK的但是應該要明確的告訴民眾比如說你們用一些QA圖卡還是透過科普活動或是網站來推播來告訴民眾說我們做了檢測那相關的食品都是安全的這樣也比較不會再發生像之前民眾有恐慌在搶"},{"start":7080.754,"end":7081.875,"text":"委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管"},{"start":7106.615,"end":7122.091,"text":"檢測那數據是安全的就要讓民眾知道好所以這個部分如何去做推廣這個訊息給民眾我希望說你們這邊可以好好的去思考說怎麼去規劃做讓民眾知道正確的訊息這邊那我這兩個案子我都可以改組決議以上好接下來請林錦委員"},{"start":7126.964,"end":7135.308,"text":"謝謝主席我的第五幕是43案喔43案是針對中國近年來迅速發展核電廠那如果發生事故卻隱匿真相會導致我國在沒有在第一時間收到這個核災通報我們怎麼該如何處置的問題那這個問題其實在上週質詢的時候已經有跟主委做過探討"},{"start":7153.117,"end":7165.182,"text":"提出這份的預算提案其實是希望核安會另外再用書面的報告做一些更完整的說明所以這一案其實我也不堅持要動多少等一下大家來一起處理好 謝謝"},{"start":7168.464,"end":7189.571,"text":"我的部分這兩案就是我在質詢的時候強調的其實也是剛剛這個陳秀寶委員在談的就是說我們的這些重要的監測的相關的這個廢水的結果那麼民眾在取得這個資訊事實上是有技術上面的困難度就這個東西其實是改善的空間很大那希望你們能夠趕快把它當作是一個重要的事情"},{"start":7190.111,"end":7211.101,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7211.141,"end":7212.242,"text":"主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會"},{"start":7238.762,"end":7253.072,"text":"剛剛陳秀寶委員講到一個很重要的觀念就是說他是安全的那你更要講啊你不能說因為他安全的所以通通都不用講了你更要講啊不然的話漁民就第一個反應是說阿人日本都有蝦是怎麼人家都沒蝦你沒蝦你反而會讓漁民覺得說是不是有問題不然為什麼不敢講對不對你這個邏輯要反過來嘛好所以呢這個部分我們是不是我們現在來處理啦齁"},{"start":7267.325,"end":7291.257,"text":"您們要補充說明嗎?首先謝謝陳秀寶委員、林怡瑾委員、鄭麗文召委的一些意見。我想先請備援實驗室、中國核電廠廖組長說明一下簡短。謝謝。剛才陳秀寶委員特別提到備援實驗室,這部分我們會遵照委員的指示,就是會在組決議把完整的書面報告說明清楚,讓委員能夠了解。"},{"start":7292.057,"end":7314.394,"text":"另外林議警委也剛剛特別提到境外核災的部分事實上我們當時也有說除了中國大陸資訊包括美國、日本也有我們都有這個通年機制那這個部分因為凍結的這個預算是涉及這個例行的這個海域環境輻射偵測的資料是不是可以建議能夠予以免凍?謝謝謝謝那個日本寒川廢水那個平台揭露是不是張樹君組長?"},{"start":7317.076,"end":7317.216,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":7333.203,"end":7352.812,"text":"不只是這樣,你們那個網頁的設計就是很難嘛我就講過了這些漁民又不是像你們都是大博士你們要弄得非常的親民讓他能夠一目了然然後不是還要自己去下載檔案這個也難度太高了所以這樣好不好我們這一幕就著動50萬讓你們具體的改善一下我們剛剛說的這些東西小小的動一下50萬請說"},{"start":7362.038,"end":7362.998,"text":"復冊政策中心主任"},{"start":7383.188,"end":7387.371,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度"},{"start":7419.928,"end":7425.384,"text":"對,其實﹖所以我們的"},{"start":7432.472,"end":7453.231,"text":"我們所有的資訊都有上政府網頁公開平台我們所有資訊那因為委員特別重視這個所以我們本來是每季更新一次我們的數據啊每季現在我們會改成每月更新一次我們會有做不是我我我那天質詢你你有在嗎那七種我在那七種何種我們都有做不是人家日本是每天欸"},{"start":7454.543,"end":7476.572,"text":"他那個其他的沒有每天啦我老實說其中的兩個核種有每天啦所以你這個頻率能不能改善呢我就說嘛因為你這個我們的漁民看到日本的網頁跟我們的網頁這個落差太大了啊我們其實有協調漁業署齁跟所有的漁會去做溝通啦以前是譬如漁業署不會做這一塊現在一年大概他會做上百場的跟漁民的溝通"},{"start":7476.852,"end":7477.232,"text":"趙偉,我承諾要改善網頁,謝謝"},{"start":7498.067,"end":7498.407,"text":"第45案到50案"},{"start":7525.53,"end":7528.071,"text":"議員提出這案主要還是關心核廢料處理的問題,因為核廢料最終處置時程分為無階段,目前我們正在進行的是候選場址評選與核定,不過因為核廢料處置設施具有"},{"start":7550.123,"end":7553.147,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":7567.285,"end":7568.806,"text":"第二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":7592.543,"end":7618.478,"text":"台電公司規劃說要在2033進行這個地下試驗設施的規劃與建構並且還要參與這個芬蘭的這個試運計畫剛好提到那參訪這個芬蘭的這個處置場那我想問的是說那我們台灣未來的這個核廢料最終處置有可能走芬蘭的這個安克羅模式嗎?"},{"start":7619.458,"end":7630.345,"text":"或請何安慧說明目前的評估,台灣適合用什麼樣的方式來處理核廢料的最終處置?"},{"start":7636.172,"end":7658.721,"text":"范雲委員第46案和第47案是希望核安會所進行的公民參與活動,不要僅止於訪查、說明會和座談會,希望能夠多辦一些地方性的審議式的民主工作坊。"},{"start":7659.321,"end":7682.684,"text":"因為審議社民主工作坊就能夠確保一個比較深度的公民的溝通那在資訊上也要確保就是民間團體學者專家能夠提供相關的意見那因為核安會改組後還是有監督放射性廢棄物最終處置計畫及應變方案的推動的職責所以我希望核安會可以參考國際的做法"},{"start":7683.344,"end":7708.385,"text":"在用過核子燃料最終處置的計畫上能夠強化有審議精神的審議是民主式的溝通方式而不是傳統的溝通方式那核安會跟我說明後願意往這個方向就是努力那所以這部分我就可以改成主決議那等核安會給我一些相關的書面報告"},{"start":7709.766,"end":7734.5,"text":"第47案是關於高放射性廢棄物選址應該先建置地下實驗室的這個內容因為我知道臺電過去曾經在花蓮縣秀林鄉選定地下實驗室可是即使是實驗當地的民眾就已經強烈反彈所以是失敗的所以我在這個提案的部分是希望說"},{"start":7736.101,"end":7738.723,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":7756.015,"end":7783.945,"text":"主管核安會提出如何改善現況、敦促台電如何進行完善、完整的跟公民的溝通還是需要建置地下實驗室的書面報告。如果可以做到的話,那這個部分我就可以改成主決議。以上兩岸,謝謝。李義景委員、范雲委員。我那個全民溝通的部分,我是不是請其次組長。"},{"start":7789.789,"end":7806.081,"text":"主席、各位委員有關於全民溝通的部分就陳如我剛才前面講的我們非常重視溝通這一塊尤其在放射性廢棄物處理這個當然怎麼凝聚這個全民的共識是非常重要的然後這部分我們有委託大學"},{"start":7806.681,"end":7819.309,"text":"議員會議長"},{"start":7820.707,"end":7841.363,"text":"事外乾除核廢料處置,最終處置場陳宏斌主長是,剛剛委員有提到關切還是地下處置案地下實驗室部分的確是我們一定會持續督促台電趕快去接觸把方法引進來趕快做"},{"start":7843.324,"end":7865.276,"text":"這一部分沒問題,我們一定會持續的督促目前處置國際上就是地質處置就是用地質的功能再加上人工的帳幣來達到目的這個是國際上幾乎都是這個方向也是我們在努力的方向"},{"start":7866.016,"end":7884.908,"text":"那就是說持續的跟台電公司一起往前走這個我們一定會繼續努力謝謝委員關心就是說我們的預算很少整個物管組預算非常少我是希望說能夠支持我們的預算請吳思堯委員補充每一年審預算就一定會講這一題"},{"start":7894.224,"end":7913.387,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":7914.161,"end":7920.004,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":7933.826,"end":7960.738,"text":"所以我做立委在這裡這麼多年也我知道它很難啦只是每一次就都一樣關關難過關關總是要過嘛那主委你要綜合再講一下要不然我大概這個案子上每一年的預算案都再提一次好那個謝謝吳委員然後那個這個在國際上也是非常困難的課題任何國家都是那麼最終處置場"},{"start":7961.978,"end":7990.349,"text":"其實在很多國家一兩個國家像芬蘭他們其實還在建制階段那麼也要很久的期程那麼如果是很好做那這個有一些工程的議題有一些自然條件的議題那麼還有社會溝通的議題那麼科學的議題跟社會溝通的議題連在一起有時候就是他互相的抵觸啦那麼還有地方政府的問題"},{"start":7991.289,"end":7998.851,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":8014.335,"end":8042.402,"text":"就以你們的專業提供你們的建議的處理方式或解決方案嗎?其實私底下我們會議非常的頻繁跟台建公司的管制會議幾乎每個議題幾乎都可以說到一個月一次就要見面討論一次然後每次就安排出來討論議題再安排下一次我們討論什麼都可以直接溝通所以你們討論了這麼多年同一個議題都沒有任何結果"},{"start":8042.902,"end":8043.483,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":8060.406,"end":8077.871,"text":"我的意思就在這裡嘛這麼多年來大家都知道卡在哪一些問題上面嘛那你們每個月開會沒有意義啊啊不就喝茶聊天喔我的意思就是說你們有提出什麼積極具體的建議可行的還是你們覺得這就不可行然後就是積極見面開會讓交代的呢有沒有什麼具體的建議或者是"},{"start":8085.423,"end":8106.161,"text":"國際上有關...請覺得方案或者是應該往哪個方向去處理嗎?好,那個陳組長,你要強調那個設施的安全,地質條件的安全,建造的安全的這個部分,那個你剛才...我想這委員都已經很清楚了啦,就是說我們的預算編列就是做安全審查跟檢查。"},{"start":8107.142,"end":8107.582,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":8127.967,"end":8155.559,"text":"所以我其實我要藉這個機會講一下這已經是我的第8年的立委就是同樣的問題所以讓我們看到過去的政策我們使用核能核一、核二、核三它的集中是儲存到現在都還是在選址跟建制上有碰到這麼大的困難這應該讓台灣社會非常清楚的看到我們沒有本錢在針對未來的如果有人要重啟核四"},{"start":8156.599,"end":8171.51,"text":"前面的、眼前的問題都沒有辦法去解決了我覺得這是非常嚴肅的課題我希望大家在看待這個議題的時候不只我們在要求之前的事情因為它非常困難但我們能做的就是預防後面新生的"},{"start":8172.458,"end":8198.553,"text":"困擾跟不可能的任務我真的站在一個國會議員的立場我想要把這樣子從這個課題看到台灣在未來的要重啟核能的可能性那廢棄物儲存這些怎麼辦所以這是我們共同的課題我覺得這個部分是我們多要跟社會去論述跟溝通的這樣謝謝好所以你們打算怎麼處理"},{"start":8203.941,"end":8232.234,"text":"動結五十萬,上次是動結五十萬,你們提案的委員打算怎麼樣?動結五十萬嗎?動結二十萬,好。那就動結二十萬加書面報告。好。然後,四十五案、四十六案、四十七案、五十案是改成主決議。然後,第幾案?四十九案也是改成主決議。然後,主決議五十一案到六十八案。"},{"start":8234.246,"end":8260.811,"text":"主決議的部分51案遵照辦理52案建議修正文字53案到59案都是遵照辦理60案有建議修正文字61案到65案遵照辦理66案建議修正文字67案、68案遵照辦理接下來這個也是嗎不是只有這個到68案再來基金的部分是核子事故緊急應變基金"},{"start":8263.117,"end":8290.013,"text":"的第一案到第五案核子事故中央災害應變工作計畫第一案到第五案那有沒有人要發言沒有人要發言的話我們就照列然後第四案改成主決議第五案改成主決議然後接下來是"},{"start":8292.728,"end":8295.237,"text":"額﹑第六案。好,林玉琴委員"},{"start":8299.265,"end":8324.451,"text":"謝謝主席提出這一案的主要考量就是說如果說我們沒有辦法完全信任中國在平常就會提供比較完整跟符合國際標準的這個核能安全的監管資訊那也無法完全信任中國會在核災事故發生後的第一時間就跟我國通報的話那那麼除了中國以外的國際合作的串聯就相當的重要"},{"start":8325.411,"end":8349.697,"text":"我想跟核安會請教是說除了中國核災發生後的因應那核安會是否在日常就會有更積極的作為而例如說我們是否有跟其他的東亞國家的串聯要求中國提供更加透明開放的核電廠數據讓大家知道說中國核電廠究竟有沒有符合國際的安全的規範"},{"start":8351.938,"end":8353.799,"text":"二、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子"},{"start":8371.79,"end":8384.383,"text":"法國、美國、捷克都是跟台灣有相關合作的國家請教何安慧當鄰國或我國發生嚴重的核子事故的時候那這些條約跟協定它能夠發揮怎麼樣的效力"},{"start":8387.566,"end":8402.765,"text":"就像我們跟美國能源部簽署的意向聲明書來看美國是否就可以立即通報相關的技術資源的協助這個以上我想藉這個機會請何安慧回應一下請說明"},{"start":8405.59,"end":8425.577,"text":"謝謝林益錦委員那個首先這個中國核電廠這個我們每5分鐘定期在做環境的輻射評估那麼24小時不間斷的每5分鐘會傳到我們會裡面有一個核安的監管中心那麼在國際上面我們有駐IAEA的"},{"start":8426.357,"end":8428.379,"text":"主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":8446.974,"end":8451.339,"text":"是,謝謝委員這邊特別的提出這個問題就是我們剛才說我們除了這個部位我們在105年事實上也參加剛才主委特別提到OECD NEA就是核能屬的在國際組織的一個演練這個就是國際一起參與"},{"start":8462.13,"end":8462.45,"text":"李英琴委員"},{"start":8486.044,"end":8506.452,"text":"那我這樣就改主決議。好。那這個部分就照列。然後林益錦委員的改主決議。第六案改主決議。好。接下來第七案到第十一案的主決議。照案通過。然後接下來是國家原子能科技研究院的主決議一案也是照案通過。好。"},{"start":8511.474,"end":8516.096,"text":"那我們預算案改組決議的部分齁第三案6、12、13、14、18、22、23、25、26、27、28、31、36、37、38、40、42、44、45、46、47、49、50另外核子事故緊急應變基金的部分第四、第五、第六案這些預算案通通改成組決議請問各位委員有沒有意見好沒有意見我們就照案通過"},{"start":8543.749,"end":8544.169,"text":"能科技研究院"},{"start":8562.171,"end":8579.366,"text":"預算案已審查完略。不用交由黨團協商。關於今天會議作如下決議。113年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案全部審查完略。"},{"start":8583.548,"end":8600.076,"text":"能科技研究院預算案均審查完略拟據審查報告提報院會不須交由黨團協商。院會討論時由正召集委員立委補充說明。對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分"},{"start":8601.216,"end":8624.544,"text":"請相關機關緊速已書面答覆本會主審中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案公務預算及非營業基金預算部分均已審查完略有關正式別稅出預算隨同以上機關別審查結果調整拟據審查報告並於12月5日含附財政委員會"},{"start":8625.684,"end":8631.667,"text":"審查結果需交由黨團協商。院會討論時由政招局委員立文補充說明。"},{"start":8654.61,"end":8655.131,"text":"最後一個審查案。"},{"start":8674.445,"end":8689.804,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}