{"error":false,"id":["153291"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153291,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153291","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T12:08:06+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T12:15:44+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:38","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331dc40e6e05fc46e41de1b7f2d659cc489711abfcd1df00fef0d1eb0eeb46feded5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:08:06 - 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就是一個延續的作業現在問題就出現了就是說現在基層消防員他們希望的跟原來的政策立場有嚴重的衝突嗎"},{"start":105.114,"end":120.448,"text":"我現在還沒有說誰對誰錯喔那您作為新的部長如果要延續新的政策立場的話就舊的政策立場的話你有沒有想過你要怎麼樣跟這些基層的消防員溝通讓他們理解而且可以接受"},{"start":120.976,"end":124.599,"text":"謝謝委員的垂詢我剛所提到的這是基本的立場也就是說不管說消防員工會要不要組成他們的一些想法我們會先來聽聽說他們想法所要達到的目標是什麼如果這個目標用現在的消防法制定這個職安專章無法達到"},{"start":141.071,"end":160.298,"text":"第二階段我們可以做什麼事所以我先建議就是說我們的次長有跟這些消防員工會的弟兄們先溝通他們需要我們幫忙的在哪裡什麼時候溝通的前兩天那他們的結論是什麼是接受你們把他放在消防法裡面放專章嗎"},{"start":161.666,"end":190.442,"text":"我們所謂的溝通就是先表達我們現在可以做到的還有他們要求的部分溝通不會只有一次溝通不會只有一次但是沒有關係啦部長我覺得你剛上任這是一個很重大的課題因為其實吵滿久的從去年的時候他們表達他們心聲的時候其實你如果看整個歷程一開始他們還沒有踩這麼硬但是他們後面踩得越來越硬"},{"start":191.718,"end":197.483,"text":"我要幫他們說一句話因為他們一次又一次的被騙一次又一次的失望"},{"start":198.806,"end":224.092,"text":"因為我一直長期在追蹤他們的訴求那也希望幫我們這些打火英雄能夠比較好的環境比較好的法規去確保這些悲劇不會再發生所以我說我長期觀察他們立場為什麼踩得越來越硬到今天已經變成要全面適用職安法這個是部長你接下來要面對重要的課題我今天只是把它點出來但我希望做到一件事"},{"start":224.972,"end":249.954,"text":"多傾聽他們的聲音 多傾聽他們的聲音因為 如果到最後 無論如何他們還是希望適用治安法你們還是希望交防法設專章而兩個規範架構比起來保護的程度有差異的話那接下來會很辛苦所謂會很辛苦 我指的是部長你會很辛苦因為接下來就可以預期兩邊要對撞了"},{"start":251.345,"end":266.367,"text":"部長我希望你可以聽得懂我今天在這邊質詢這個問題的時候委員所講的部分我能夠接受的部分就是第一個我希望消防法裡面的職安專章跟消防員這些主公會想要主公會的弟兄們所指導的"},{"start":267.128,"end":267.168,"text":"委員：黃國昌"},{"start":295.111,"end":324.259,"text":"我們在第一次接觸的時候有提出他們的想法還有他們對我們的想法的時候我們未來還會持續溝通那這裡面就是像委員所說的有共識我們再繼續往前走所以我剛有跟委員提到說這個沒有辦法一步到位那既然沒有辦法一步到位的話先放下成見有沒有什麼是基本需要趕快做的就好像說我們消防員他不幸來罹難那罹難之後我們自己消防署內部是不是在火掉"},{"start":324.639,"end":330.221,"text":"這個我都同意啦時間的關係我知道部長剛上任你需要一些時間去溝通最後確定你的政策立場我今天其實是很善意的提出來提醒因為我希望你們到時候消防法那個專章如果你們還是採取這個政策立場的話"},{"start":354.031,"end":380.452,"text":"能夠說服這些打火英雄給他們保障是足夠的那要不然的話我們一定跟這些消防弟兄站在一起推動把他們納入治安法那最後一分鐘的時間我請一下署長消防署署長署長我只跟你提醒一件事你上個禮拜我知道你去南部見了一個算是國民黨的前大老縣長"},{"start":382.559,"end":406.699,"text":"這個事情我知道但我要跟你說的事情是說你與其帶著地方消防局的局長去拜會那種所謂的大佬想要用透過私下戳的方式去勸阻這些消防弟兄站出來爭取他們的權益去組工會這樣的事情我給您的建議是多花時間跟這些消防弟兄相處"},{"start":407.66,"end":427.74,"text":"因為我後來 得到的訊息是那位大佬直接就給你打槍啊直接給你打槍啊所以我們是支持消防員啊支持他的主公會啊怎麼可能去答應你所提出來這樣的請求人事實第一我都有但我想你做了這個事情我"},{"start":430.599,"end":455.638,"text":"這樣說好了啦我今天還是很善意的提醒你與其花時間去搞這種事情多花一點時間跟消防弟兄好好的溝通去了解他們需要什麼怎麼樣保障他們的權益比你帶著兩個地方消防局的局長跑去跟人家私下橋結果還被打槍好這樣可以嗎收到 謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}