{"error":false,"id":["153301"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153301,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153301","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T13:19:50+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T13:26:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e133179ae9e63881b2664de1b7f2d659cc489711abfcd1df00fef8a3d5adc657703f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"13:19:50 - 13:26:34","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1241,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（13時19分）有請國土署署長。"],["主席：有請國土署署長。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：署長午安。交通傷亡事件對兒少一直是具最大殺傷力，臺灣又是少子化，我們的出生率已經到0.78，就整個數據來看，近五年每一年少生了3萬人，而我們的交通死傷3,000人，當然你會講這要問交通部，可是實際上我們更要問的是，因為道路事實上是國土管理署來做處理的。署長看到這個照片有什麼感覺？我們已經被講成是行人地獄，可是連一個孩子要上學都這麼難！樓騎不能走，跨出來還要跟機車爭道，沒有任何一個空間可以讓他們行走，甚至路肩擺滿了各式各樣的障礙，根本就讓孩子無路可走，最後大概就是發生傷亡，然後去走官司這一條路。死亡是一回事，受傷就可能造成家庭的負擔。所以就編了4年400億，去年執行50億的金額，本席想問的是，核定了418件約56億元的經費，目前改善成果有沒有掌握？因為是去年執行嘛，照理來講現今應該已經執行完畢了。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實大多數都完工，那我們通常會做一件事情，就是完工以後，我們會請地方政府就它所改善的項目再做一年的監測，就是這一年車禍的肇事率還有樣態跟之前相較有沒有改善？我們就開始這樣做，因為這樣才能確認……"],["林委員月琴：有改善嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：所以今年會是一個很重要的測試期，也跟委員報告，我們從之前的易肇事路口改善就累積了經驗。"],["林委員月琴：本來就有個指標是易肇事路口，現在是針對校園周邊，事實上你們是讓學校自己提出來，學校就不是懂交通的，他們提出來的……"],["吳署長欣修：我瞭解。"],["林委員月琴：我不知道這418件的核定是懂交通的人提出來的，還是他們只是上網看……有針對道安資訊平台分析出來的熱點，然後針對這個熱點去做，要改善街道，讓孩子有更好的通學環境，有嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們在去年在推的時候有特別要求地方政府，不是只有教育單位，也不是只有交通單位，而是教育單位、交通單位跟公務單位三個要一起合作去提整個的方案，這個方案出來也應該要很確認這些內容是有……"],["林委員月琴：所以有一一去核對？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["林委員月琴：因為我要講的是，一個是通盤性的調查，確定這些真的是易肇事路口產生傷亡點，為什麼今天孩子不走路上學？因為就是傷亡高，家長不放心。那為什麼會傷亡高？因為你們沒有提供人行系統，經常只是改善學校門口的一小段。"],["吳署長欣修：對，瞭解。"],["林委員月琴：根本就沒有辦法讓孩子有一條比較完整的通學環境，所以可以什麼時候給我這些相關的資料？"],["吳署長欣修：是。我們會後應該很快就可以統計出來給委員。不過我們也會持續要求，就像委員所講的，不能只做學校周圍那一段，而是應該要延伸，就是比較大的範圍。"],["林委員月琴：應該是通學環境，所以當初「行人交通安全設施條例」也是，本來我們是希望訂在法條裡面，最後是用說明的方式，我們還是期待你要特別注意所謂的弱勢，尤其兒童、老人跟懷孕婦女，要針對這些弱勢的需求。","另外，可不可以比照，現今我們跟日韓的差異，都是亞洲地區，我們的傷亡跟他們相差甚多，我們生不贏人家，可是我們的交通死傷又比這兩個國家多了很多。所以我們期待是不是可以比照，不敢說要比照韓國、日本，至少可不可以先以學校周遭150公尺的範圍來打造上、放學的環境？未來我們當然期待是達到韓國那樣，最終走到日本是500公尺的目標。這邊都有一些配套，請署長看一下，光護欄、照明這些都是很大的問題，彰化3個姐弟發生的事件就是因為燈光的問題，使得他們在通學的時候比較是有一定的困難。","不好意思，請主席再給我一點時間。","署長剛剛講有通盤掌握，那有沒有看到人家寫的？上面的完工示意圖，是當初他送給你們的計畫說要這樣改善，結果改善成什麼？地方政府還是按照自己的改善方式，完全沒有按照當初他給的示意圖改善！現在有民眾揭發了這件事情。所以我剛剛前面問說有沒有掌握，如果有掌握的話不會發生這種事情。這裡只揭發出1件，搞不好有五件、十件都不知道，前面核定的那四百多件是不是也有類似的狀況？所以請國土署要充分掌握。","最後我還是主張，要重視人行周遭交通環境，給孩子一條通學安全的路，否則我們的小學生不走路，傷亡就是發生在高中階段，因為高中事實上是小學的五倍，國中是小學的兩倍，大概沒有一個家庭禁得起孩子到高中階段的時候死傷，國家也付出了非常高的成本。所以通學環境優化，你要去做考量，不要變成是地方民代綁樁的工具，你接下來還有400億要去執行。以上，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：是，這個我們一定會檢討。"],["林委員月琴：請你一個月內給我們相關資料。"],["吳署長欣修：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請吳署長辛苦一點。","謝謝林月琴委員。月琴委員，抱歉！召委在這裡。謝謝，我站起來跟您鞠躬了，您一直沒看我。謝謝，沒關係。","繼續我們請林俊憲委員，林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員不在。","請林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-20","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","牛煦庭","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","黃建賓","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra 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的數據來看的話"},{"start":28.955,"end":29.236,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":52.145,"end":53.506,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":73.755,"end":74.336,"text":"昨年執行50億這樣子的一個金額"},{"start":100.195,"end":124.507,"text":"這個我想問的你去核定了418件約大概56億的一個經費目前改善成果有沒有掌握因為去年執行那今天照理來講應該是執行完畢了應該跟委員報告其實大多數都完工那我們通常是這樣會做一件事情就是說完以後我們會請地方政府就它所改善的項目"},{"start":126.152,"end":126.372,"text":"有改善嗎?為什麼?"},{"start":144.101,"end":166.966,"text":"跟我們報告就我們從之前的這個一朝四入口的改善那邊就給自己一個經驗本來就有個指標是一改善一朝四入口可是現在事實上是針對校園周邊的話你們事實上是讓學校自己提出來學校就不是懂交通的人然後提出來的那我不知道你這418件的核定事實上是懂交通的人提出來還是說他們是看上網"},{"start":167.546,"end":180.955,"text":"有針對於我們的道安資訊平台裏邊的分析出來的熱點然後針對這個熱點然後去做那我要改善這個我們的街道裏邊那可能讓孩子有更好的通學環境有嗎"},{"start":197.606,"end":198.107,"text":"今天孩子為什麼不走入上學"},{"start":216.425,"end":216.525,"text":"主席"},{"start":233.909,"end":258.986,"text":"可以什麼時候給我這些相關的資料我們應該會後應該很快就可以統計出來給不過也是我們會持續要求就是說就像委員所講不能只做學校周圍那一段而是應該要延伸應該是通學環境所以當初行人交通安全設施條例也是本來我們是希望訂在法條裡邊最後事實上是用我們的說明來講"},{"start":260.868,"end":261.228,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":274.008,"end":274.208,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":294.5,"end":295.201,"text":"李慧琴"},{"start":324.74,"end":324.86,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":346.681,"end":368.466,"text":"所以我剛剛前面問說有沒有掌握那如果有掌握的話不會發生這種那人家只丟一件搞不好是五件十件都不知道你那前面的四百多件是不是也是有類似的狀況所以請國土署這邊要充分掌握下一頁最後就是我還是主張行任周遭的環境讓孩子給一條通學環境安全的路為什麼"},{"start":368.966,"end":385.098,"text":"佛州我們小學不走路呢我們的傷亡就是高中階段因為高中事實上是小學生的五倍國中是小學生的兩倍那我們大概沒有一個家庭經得起說孩子到高中階段的時候死傷然後呢國家也付出了非常高的成本"},{"start":385.649,"end":403.262,"text":"所以以通學環境為優化你要去做考量然後不要變成是地方民帶綁裝的工具你接下來還有400億要去執行所以我們一定會來檢討所以請你一個月給我們相關資料請吳署長辛苦一點謝謝林月琴委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}