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112年度及130年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預算案全部審查完略。七、本會主審中華民國130年度專政部總預算案供應預算及非營業基金預算部分均應審查完略。有關證識別稅出預算隨同以上"},{"start":2149.919,"end":2168.454,"text":"機關別審查結果調整,明據審查報告含附財政委員會審查結果需交由黨團協商,任意討論時,由正召集委員立文補充說明,宣布完畢。請問各位委員,上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處?"},{"start":2170.223,"end":2189.547,"text":"因為在場委員未達議決人數三人,議事錄暫不確定。今天的議程有兩項。第一項,邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形進行專題報告．並備質詢。二、審查運動產業發展條例相關草案共十八案。"},{"start":2197.068,"end":2218.525,"text":"adequ 1、審查行政院函請審議運動產業相關發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案。adequ 2、審查委員洪孟楷等。adequ 3、審查委員蘇曉慧等。adequ 4、審查委員莊瑞雄等。adequ 5、審查委員江永昌等。adequ 6、審查委員萬美玲等。adequ 7、審查委員廖國棟等。"},{"start":2219.125,"end":2239.304,"text":"八、張亮萬堅等九、林一金等五、吳思瑤等十一、陳秀寶等十二、蘇志芬等十三、沈發慧等十四、黃國書等十五、陳廷飛等十六、時代力量黨團十七、劉兆豪等十八、余天等"},{"start":2241.513,"end":2266.319,"text":"進行詢答及逐條審查首先我們介紹在場委員其次介紹與會官員我們在場委員有萬敏玲委員莊瑞雄委員蘇巧慧委員謝謝我們在場的官員有教育部部長潘文忠文化部影視及流行音樂發展司副司長呂美麗"},{"start":2268.945,"end":2293.593,"text":"文創發展司專門委員王定亞法務部法治司調部辦事檢察官謝佑雲內政部警政署刑事警察局警政監鄭洪志行政院消費者保護處副處長陳興宏行政院消費者保護處消費者保護官曾盈建"},{"start":2295.65,"end":2312.284,"text":"數位發展部數位產業署副組長莊育志科長黃興富現在我們請提案委員進行提案說明請問哪一位委員要說明蘇巧慧委員先"},{"start":2320.68,"end":2349.609,"text":"主席、各位同仁2023年亞洲棒球錦標賽上週日在台北大巨蛋開賽這也是台北大巨蛋取得使用執照後的第一個正式國際賽事吸引不少球迷關注然而包含本次賽事以及日前所舉辦的測試賽相關票券開賣及搶購或索取一空但也查獲部分不法人士販售黃牛票牟利影響國人關賽之權益甚巨因此修正相關法規卻有必要"},{"start":2350.229,"end":2363.943,"text":"今天教育文化委員會排審運動產業發展條例的修正案在行政院今年九月提出版本前本席已於去年十二月為立法院首位也是唯一同時提出《文化創意產業發展法》《運動產業發展條例醫療法修正案》等打擊黃牛三法"},{"start":2370.309,"end":2391.442,"text":"參照行政院版本本席對運動產業發展條例修正案意見有三。第一,國民體育法第五條第一項政府應保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利。依此精神政府應保障民眾參與或觀賞運動競技或表演之權益而防治黃牛則是政府保障其觀賞權益的作為之一。"},{"start":2392.683,"end":2416.076,"text":"同上政府保障民眾參與運動競技或表演之權益於本法第十二條培養國民運動習慣並振興運動產業精神相似故建議增訂條次於第十二條之一第三令無論是本席或行政院所提版本若不法人士販售之票券為免費索取則無法依增訂條文第二項給予罰款故本席將提出修正動議若販賣免費票券"},{"start":2418.357,"end":2434.327,"text":"若販賣免費索取支票券則按票券章數除每張票販售金額之十倍至五十倍的罰款以上為提案說明 懇請各位委員支持指教 謝謝好 謝謝蘇巧慧委員的說明我們請莊瑞雄委員說明"},{"start":2440.63,"end":2460.889,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們列席的官員還有媒體朋友大家早安這個黃牛一直是大部分國人身痛惡絕的一個行為藉由這個烘台票價為自己來磨砺卻嚴重去影響到整個票價市場的合理的運作一個秩序對於產業的一個發展跟消費者的權益都是一種傷害"},{"start":2461.71,"end":2484.715,"text":"那在上半年我們討論如何杜絕黃流的現象在立法還是修法社會有不同的一個面向的一個看法最後捨棄了另立專法改為各項目的一個主管機關分別立法在演唱會、表演藝術領域及由文化部來進行文化產業發展法的一個修法當時本席也提出了運動產業發展條例的一個修法也召開了記者會"},{"start":2485.555,"end":2495.878,"text":"呼籲這個整個黃牛票不只是藝文的一個領域連體育賽事也非常的多比如說這個前幾年直棒球星彭卓銘的影隊賽一張門票動輒喊到頗上萬元而今年的一個經典賽我們看到還有直籃前NBA的球星出賽的賽事同樣都有猖獗的一個黃牛在紅台票價那對於體育運動產業來講黃牛的行為將導致球迷的權益受損"},{"start":2514.204,"end":2529.625,"text":"也導致賽事周邊經濟沒有辦法活絡更是去吸引更多新球迷投入的一個機會可惜儘管這個五月份的時候本區議會呼籲要求一併進行修法還是擱置到現在才開始進行修法的一個工程我們期待"},{"start":2530.566,"end":2556.222,"text":"朝野委員共同支持今天運動產業發展條例的修法有鑒於文化創意產業修法以後施行的部分狀況例如黃牛改以買藝術品或付票券的方式來規避新法的規範該如何引以為鑒導入這次修法更增完整大家一同努力維護票券市場的合理運作保障消費者的權益促進體育運動產業的發展謝謝大家"},{"start":2565.289,"end":2588.094,"text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的說明我們現在在場有到三人請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處沒有 那我們議事錄確定我們繼續進行提案說明林益菁委員或是萬美玲委員有沒有要針對提案說明沒有 好 謝謝那我們現在請潘部長進行報告時間12分鐘"},{"start":2599.825,"end":2623.701,"text":"主席、各位委員、大家早今天應邀列席大院教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議針對我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形來進行專題報告以及審議運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案"},{"start":2624.521,"end":2638.294,"text":"在此跟委員做口頭的報告那詳細的書面資料再請委員來參考指教首先就2024年巴黎奧運在相關面向上面的整備來跟委員做說明"},{"start":2640.336,"end":2662.997,"text":"二零二四年奧林匹克運動會是在二零二四年七月二十六日到八月十一日在法國的巴黎來舉行。總共有三十二個運動種類,計有三百二十九面的金牌。本屆賽事在參賽資格取得規定,有客觀的參賽標準,還有世界奧運積分排名以及參加奧運會的資格賽等。"},{"start":2665.859,"end":2674.45,"text":"那目前在有關巴黎奧運的備戰的情形那本部體育署輔導國家運動中心單項協會做好2024巴黎奧運之培訓參賽作業那麼目前選手也正在積極爭取"},{"start":2683.38,"end":2700.009,"text":"參賽的資格以及巴黎奧運災經奪牌目前備戰的情形說明如下參賽的目標當然希望能夠爭取最多參賽資格的名額也能夠超越歷屆參賽成績作為我們的目標那在"},{"start":2701.411,"end":2707.915,"text":"有關培訓的這部分到112年12月6日值目前我們有12個運動種類的培訓隊選手有198位的選手正在培訓當中那麼遴選13個運動種類選手有75位"},{"start":2719.382,"end":2743.03,"text":"黃金計畫的精英選手進行客製化的專案培訓計畫也成立了專責輔導的小組協助選訓賽輔工作全力支援選手能提升競技實力跟參賽的成績也輔導協會在該培訓隊召開座談及早了解到教練跟選手訓練上的需求以完備後勤的支援那麼依照國際單項運動總會"},{"start":2745.051,"end":2759.65,"text":"所訂的資格賽及排名賽程規劃選手來參賽那麼到113年6月底能夠全力的爭取我國最多參賽資格名額的種類如舉重、羽球、柔道、體操"},{"start":2760.371,"end":2777.598,"text":"桌球、拳擊、網球、高爾夫球等。那麼到目前為止到12月6日為止那麼我國已經取得6個運動種類共有16席的參賽的席次那麼目前選手也都在正在積極參與各項資格賽的相關的過程"},{"start":2781.559,"end":2809.1,"text":"那麼針對備戰巴黎奧運那麼我們在後勤資源考察的部分也在今年4月15到23日前往法國巴黎實地的考察收集規劃後勤資源相關的工作競賽場館籌辦進度跟一地訓練所需要的相關資訊那麼未來在明年的1月13到21號也會前往法國巴黎實地的進行考察收集運動競賽場地的現況包含"},{"start":2811.983,"end":2830.26,"text":"選手村也會拜會巴黎奧運籌備會瞭解籌備的進度跟最新的資訊另外在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康整備方面也跟委員報告在性別平等方面推動男女平等是一個國際運動發展的一個趨勢經濟運動也積極在配合推動2024年巴黎奧運會的目標"},{"start":2837.226,"end":2853.113,"text":"以達到性別平等作為一個目標在32個運動種類難以拆散選手分別是5250人各佔一半為了消除對婦女一切形式歧視公約第十條規範婦女在教育方面享有跟"},{"start":2854.734,"end":2865.491,"text":"男子同樣平等的權利就國家競賽競技運動而言也賦予男女在參加運動跟體育的基礎上有相同的機會那麼國家競技運動選手培訓選訓服選訓服獎"},{"start":2869.978,"end":2898.123,"text":"的相關的政策也是依照國際賽事的規則那麼制定男女相同的領選標準提供男女相同的培訓的資源像散速、訓練器材、場地也給予男女相同的參賽的機會建構男女相同的輔導措施如運科及後勤資源、就業輔導等也設置男女相同的獎勵制度以上措施都是為了要能夠確保女性跟男性"},{"start":2899.443,"end":2913.587,"text":"你現在男女平等基礎上有相同的權利也符合吸斗的精神那本部體育署為了推動特定團體選訓委員會的組成符合性別平等原則那麼在112年7月20夜含之44個亞奧運特定體育團體目前24個亞奧運特定團體"},{"start":2923.745,"end":2947.138,"text":"選訓委員任意性別委員要達已經達三分之一以上那除達成情形也將至113年起我們納入工作計畫補助款的增減來做一個參考未來希望能朝向性別比例是一比一的目標來推動以提升決策過程或相關選訓輔的過程能夠確保性別平等那本部提議署也輔導中華奧會"},{"start":2948.739,"end":2972.707,"text":"能提升女性參與決策階層依該會會章第九條的規定委員的組成應盡量符合國際奧會女性委員名額原則中華奧會上設有10個特色委員會總計135位委員其中男性93位女性42位女性佔比是31%因其主任委員及委員屬任命性質"},{"start":2974.227,"end":2988.484,"text":"本部提議書也將輔導中華奧會循國際奧會的模式優先達成特定委員會男女比例可以達到1比1的這樣的一個標準在運動科學方面國性中心跟國家運動科學中心"},{"start":2990.106,"end":3014.256,"text":"目前已經做好相關的分工模式那國訓中心運動科學處分為運科組及醫護組以六大領域來執行運科配合運科中心成立那麼依實務應用及研發規劃來作為兩個中心在任務屬性上的一個主要的區隔那麼屬於運科實務應用資源就由國訓中心"},{"start":3015.736,"end":3040.904,"text":"運動科學處來負責。屬於原發規劃則由運科中心來負責。那麼運科中心也會支援巴黎奧運的相關整備情形。那麼在科學化設備以及技術協助前級選手像林玉婷的訓練檢測以電子設備來搭配前級沙袋架設透過分析對手移動習慣等套用至沙袋移動的軌跡。"},{"start":3042.305,"end":3045.572,"text":"像組成專責的醫療小組針對跆拳道選手羅嘉玲體操選手李子凱現階段運動的傷害協助其傷勢的治療傷後訓練"},{"start":3053.616,"end":3075.675,"text":"體能恢復等來提供完整的分析跟照護資源那麼針對賽事期間因應選手賽事安排的需求也會以國立屏東科大合作開發富含必需營養素質配料包中西式小點心提供選手以比賽期間及時飲食恢復的補給品那麼有關在國慶中心規劃巴黎奧運中繼站資源的規模"},{"start":3079.099,"end":3094.116,"text":"預計擴大中繼站資源規模提供一站式的運科資源服務模式讓選手可以更方便快速的獲得各項運科的協助中繼站除了循網利安排我們的專用的廚師來烹調台灣家鄉口味的餐食之外"},{"start":3099.562,"end":3112.168,"text":"也能夠即時的提供熱食服務近期也開始來洽詢真空條理包等等的相關事務那麼規劃運動科學資源服務包含在恢復室提供高壓氧倉恢復設備、氣壓室恢復設備、疲勞檢測"},{"start":3117.11,"end":3132.578,"text":"這個恢復在營養與心理的諮詢方面提供賽事營養補給、勤收與運動競賽心理諮商的服務在運動員心理健康方面運動人心理人員系協助運動員在訓練當中協助並評估運動員心理狀態並回饋給教練跟選手例行性的資源包括個人諮詢"},{"start":3139.381,"end":3155.499,"text":"或實施團體課程協助運動員增強心理素質提升運動的表現。國性中心的運動心理人員目前為7人並有另聘諮商心理師運動心理人員依倫理守則若評估運動員有必要轉介"},{"start":3155.999,"end":3181.739,"text":"也考量心理諮商及個人的意願跟隱私經過選手同意後來協助轉介那麼針對巴黎奧運會進行時的運動人力支援人力將配合賽會代表團的支援總額規定以及我國代表團的任務編組需求支援組成情形來適當的編派如果受限於整個總額規定那無法列入代表團"},{"start":3182.339,"end":3206.182,"text":"也將會列入後勤中繼站來做即時的支援第二部分跟委員報告是就運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文以及我們草野各委員黨團總共十七案的部分來跟委員做說明首先跟委員報告因為之前謝謝大院這邊"},{"start":3207.483,"end":3231.652,"text":"對於有關在《文化創意產業發展法》當時的相關的審議也有一些明確的結果也經總統公佈。那麼因此在這方面教育部在這裡我也跟委員報告這個整個目前我們除了院版之外也看過17位委員的提案跟黨團的這個提案那我也跟委員做一個統整的報告"},{"start":3232.392,"end":3247.201,"text":"那麼這個多位委員跟黨團所提的相關條文草案在這裡也特別表示對委員跟運動產業發展的支持表示最大的感謝那麼考量運動賽事或活動票券加價販售問題跟"},{"start":3249.403,"end":3264.016,"text":"總統已經公布五月三十一號公布的經大院三讀公布的文化創意產業發展法所訂的藝文活動票件加價出售相關的規範處罰等規定事項本質是相當一致那麼因此呢本部在這個相關的"},{"start":3266.318,"end":3290.319,"text":"院版的條文裡面也實質參考比照文化創意產業發展法第十條之一的條文的規定擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂二十四條之一》的相關的條文那跟委員報告目前就本部對委員及黨團所提的草案回應說明在詳細的部分請委員來參考書面的資料那麼針對委員張耀萬堅等18位"},{"start":3292.481,"end":3313.894,"text":"委員、委員林毅錦等十六位委員、委員黃國書等十六位委員及時代力量黨團領據《運動產業發展條例增訂二十四條之一條文》等四案以行政院版方向跟內容一致本部競表贊同建議能夠並同行政院版來審查第二部分是針對委員洪孟楷等十六位委員、委員張瑞雄等十六位委員、委員張"},{"start":3314.814,"end":3317.418,"text":"廖國棟等 委員吳思堯等 委員陳秀寶等 委員蘇志芬等 委員沈發慧等 委員陳廷飛等 委員劉兆豪等 委員"},{"start":3329.485,"end":3359.185,"text":"委員宜天等十七位所擬據的相關條文以及委員蘇曉慧等二十位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂十二條之一條文》委員江永昌等十八位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂十七條之一條文草案》及委員萬美玲等十六位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例第二十四條之一》及《二十四條之二》等十三案各委員版本大致內容跟行政院版方向一致本部競表贊同"},{"start":3359.585,"end":3366.75,"text":"那部分的內容可能在條文的條次、立法的用詞、處罰、行為樣態、加價販售範圍排除行為人取得票件之必要、費用、罰款額度再販之處罰、處罰預備加價等等相關的這個部分"},{"start":3377.356,"end":3398.166,"text":"為了能夠跟相關的事項以行政院版保障民眾觀賞運動賽會跟活動的權益確保賽事來進行能夠讓票件正常流通我想這個目標都一致那相關的部分建議能夠併同行政院版的時候我們再請委員來指教那也參考文化部之前所公布的"},{"start":3398.626,"end":3403.088,"text":"這個文化創意產業發展法讓民眾在依循的時候可以比較有一致性的規範我想這部分這裡特別跟委員來做報告那最後謝謝我們朝野黨團各位委員那麼對於這樣議題的關心而且也能夠有很具體的提案我們希望今天能夠在大院的支持之下我們盡快完成這個條文以杜絕"},{"start":3424.66,"end":3424.801,"text":"謝謝各位,謝謝。"},{"start":3438.821,"end":3462.215,"text":"謝謝潘部長的口頭報告我們現在進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘立席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分委員如有臨時提案起於上午10點30分前提出處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場"},{"start":3462.975,"end":3481.644,"text":"原例不予處理。首先我們請發言登記第一位的萬美林委員質詢。謝謝主席。我們有請潘文忠部長還有我們體育署政事中署長。有請潘部長跟政署長。"},{"start":3483.593,"end":3503.047,"text":"委員早好 部長早 處長早我想我們最近由這個中華民國電競運動協會辦的2023星光電競大賞的活動在頒獎典禮上引出了很多的爭議那不管是媒體網路還有這個全民都非常的關心我想請教一下部長"},{"start":3504.028,"end":3527.596,"text":"那這個中華民國電競運動協會辦理這一個電競大賞活動把教育部體育署列為指導單位事前有沒有問過教育部或體育署跟委員報告就我跟體育署這邊的瞭解今天的時間很短之前沒有徵詢過體育署的沒有好那如果沒有那這個活動辦得沸沸揚揚的難道教育部跟體育署完全不知道嗎"},{"start":3528.876,"end":3552.009,"text":"因為他沒有知會過體育署那體育署也沒有參與相關的規劃更沒有經費的補助所以確實不知道他活動的辦理或要邀請哪些人員來參與這個確實我們事前不知道那這個協會看起來現在已經把這個教育部體育署從指導單位直接拿掉了那他做這個動作是體育署去要求的嗎這部分我是不是請署長來 請說 請回"},{"start":3556.444,"end":3578.363,"text":"有去要求嗎?有,因為他們的確沒有經過我們的同意。沒有經過我們的同意,所以你也去要求他拿下來了。但是根據本席的了解跟調查,這個中華民國電競協會在去年就有辦2022的星光電競大賽,這不是第一屆了。這個頒獎典禮其實在當時就已經有把教育部體育署列為指導單位了,而且"},{"start":3578.883,"end":3589.183,"text":"到現在官網上還看得到在去年的指導單位就是教育部體育署所以部長在去年辦的這個電競大賽的這個頒獎典禮那教育部你是有同意擔任嗎?"},{"start":3590.956,"end":3618.494,"text":"去年有沒有?報告委員基本上我們每年都因為他不是賽事也不是培訓對那你去年有沒有同意?所以我們沒有同意那因為他也不在我們工作都沒有在我們工作的那個年度工作計畫裡面所以去年也沒有同意今年也沒有同意連續兩年他辦的這麼大辦的這麼沸沸揚揚甚至於可以宣稱說辦的非常的成功而您以及整個體育署教育部全部渾然不知被人家冒用所以結果結論是這樣嗎?"},{"start":3620.663,"end":3649.532,"text":"報告委員說實在的國內很多的運動團體在舉辦活動我只要講這一件事所以是這樣嗎你完全不知道他們基本上都會希望掛我們體育署但是呢我們都一再的宣導沒有經過我們同意不可以所以你的意思是說你沒有可以不可以任何人要掛都可以掛我們不可以我們已經一再宣導也行文給各個協會就是不行所以不可以那你的意思是說可能還有其他協會都是這樣冒用的說實在的在民間單位的確有這種的情況那我們一再的行文就是不可以"},{"start":3650.433,"end":3670.726,"text":"署長這個齁我們另外要來講如果有這個狀況那這一次發生這麼樣一個大的爭議喔你就應該去想一個辦法去杜絕這件事情啊不能沒有作為嘛那話要講回來了如果2023年因為有這個爭議所以你去告訴他請你拿掉那2022沒有這個爭議他說他辦得很成功你就概括承受現在是這樣的意思嗎"},{"start":3671.366,"end":3680.036,"text":"報告委員基本上我們回去還是會請他拿掉這個不需要提醒了吧 對不對你應該往前都要看這個還需要本席在這裡提醒嗎來接下來部長"},{"start":3682.991,"end":3706.778,"text":"這個被冒用沒有經過你同意就把教育部放上去而且我們請來的這個頒獎的人他有因為販毒他自己也承認然後這個一審還遭到判刑四年兩個月那對於教育部其實都一直在做這個反毒的一個宣導反毒的教育那我想這是一個非常諷刺也非常打臉的一件事情您生氣嗎?"},{"start":3708.705,"end":3718.913,"text":"呃 跟委員報告齁第一個未經得同意就掛指導單位這件事情我覺得就是非常不尊重主管機關這部分我會請體育署應該要明文的報酬部長 我的問題非常簡單第二個我跟委員報告齁部長 這件事情你生氣嗎當然覺得非常不適當啊"},{"start":3725.197,"end":3738.754,"text":"非常不適當,你生氣嗎?他這樣的作為。因為他是他們的主規劃。部長,您的態度非常重要。你身為教育部的部長,他這樣的一個做法,您會生氣嗎?就是非常不適當啊。他不適當,那所以你譴責嗎?"},{"start":3740.356,"end":3754.174,"text":"委員 這個我們已經很嚴正的表達任何運動賽會絕對不能跟這些毒品掛鉤所以他這樣子的冒用並且請來這麼不適當的人來做頒獎人你是沒有嚴正譴責你也沒有生氣"},{"start":3755.376,"end":3757.497,"text":"我剛才已經表達了。你表達什麼?就是我們絕對禁止跟毒品有掛鉤。您個人身為教育部的部長,對於有體育團體去冒用教育部體育署的名義,造成體育署名義受損,"},{"start":3773.923,"end":3799.711,"text":"同時又請來了一向違背我們教育部在做反讀宣導反讀教育宗旨的這個頒獎人本身就是一個販毒的人而您卻沒有一個態度我想我們來看這樣子算起來經濟部真的比你有gas多了就在今年一樣是九月份我們經濟部有一個2023臺北世貿秋季的加盟展當時也是遭到市和電廠的冒名為指導單位"},{"start":3802.452,"end":3812.12,"text":"二話不說經濟部就去提告妨礙名譽囉那我請教一下您既不生氣啊也只有做個說明啊那連提告應該都不會吧"},{"start":3813.413,"end":3829.098,"text":"你會捍衛你的名譽去提告嗎?會不會?因為昨天署長親自對外說明我想這個過程其實就表達非常清楚政府的立場什麼立場?就是反讀啊那對於這件事情冒用你會比照經濟部去提告嗎?委員這個是應該來講因為體育署我覺得應該要一個很明確的規範"},{"start":3834.6,"end":3850.861,"text":"負責你會不會去提告嗎?因為剛才署長已經說明了說明會不會去提告嗎?這些團體非常的多好 來 副長我想喔今天他本身對您非常非常的失望第一個你沒有嚴正抗議他冒用體育署的這個名義第二個對於他請來"},{"start":3853.704,"end":3876.401,"text":"販毒的人擔任嘉賓嚴重違反我們教育部這個反毒的立場你也沒有提出嚴正的抗議譴責跟嚴厲的一個處置第三個你也沒有比照經濟部的做法對於冒用教育部人的名義捍衛自己的名譽然後來去提告你以上全部沒有做我想請教一下因為本席也看到在該協會的簡介當中有提到說這個電競協會"},{"start":3878.923,"end":3886.405,"text":"是教育部體育署跟中華奧會唯一指定電技事務委辦的一個單位那同時啊所以我們的賽事從107年起不管他做賽事推廣啦出國啦等等啦我們都有給他補助我們從107年看到112年不斷的增加從100萬到現在將近300萬"},{"start":3900.089,"end":3914.52,"text":"那當然根據媒體的報導這個理事長叫做蕭正嘉似乎是與我們許多背景雄厚的綠營大咖有非常不錯的關係那媒體這樣報導之後當然大家的評論就會沸沸揚揚事情當然就越滾越大那我們也不希望看到這個人他是在110年擔任了電競協會的理事長之後我們也看到我們所有的補助金額就翻倍"},{"start":3927.549,"end":3954.151,"text":"那是不是也因為他有背景所以這個部長您今天的態度才這麼消極既不嚴正遣職只給予適當處置而適當處置可能只是去個電話請他拿下來而且是拿下來今年的、去年的、前年的完全沒有往前面去看完全不像一個教育部的部長去捍衛別人傷害到教育部的名義以及我們這個反獨立場被侵害的權益那我們也看到其實在這個"},{"start":3955.612,"end":3974.213,"text":"同一年2021年電競大賽其實蔡英文總統就有幫忙拍攝宣傳影片那體育署從過去每年補助協會大概本來在100多萬那110年後那時間翻倍到了245萬我想是不是因為這真的是有一個背景所以您不敢辦"},{"start":3975.074,"end":4004.458,"text":"但是我所認識的教育部是為我們的教育部數許多多應該為學生權益、教育權益爭取立場所有同仁都在努力我們不希望因為部長您個人有一些您個人的這個思維、看法或壓力抹煞了大家不管是我們辦活動也好不管是我們禁止其他協會這樣冒用體育署的名義傷害體育署的名義以及我們特教師對於我們的反讀過去同仁們這麼認真而你要知道喔"},{"start":4004.798,"end":4015.764,"text":"今天我們這個協會除了是我們跟中華奧會唯一指定的電競事務委辦單位委辦我們對他就有監督我們對他就應該要有處罰而且部長他還跟我們國內73所大專院校62所高中職來合作"},{"start":4023.809,"end":4043.411,"text":"你知道對對孩子影響有多大我們反讀都來不及了我們反讀的預算在編反讀的工作一直在做可是今天這個影響你知道我們請來的嘉賓或代言人對於我們想要訴求的這個團體或對象都是有很大的影響為何潘文忠部長今天的態度如此軟弱可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":4043.931,"end":4064.403,"text":"我跟委員報告這個跟政治無關只有跟我們政府支持電競選手因為參加的是今年亞運所以他相關的經費我們是全力支持電競選手不是支持這個學會也跟政治無關第二點我跟委員報告那麼在過去他今天所辦的是他自己規劃的表揚活動不是一個電競的競賽活動"},{"start":4067.466,"end":4070.39,"text":"這麼多的相關的團體他們在自主規劃的過程當中確實教育部不會去了解到他的細節而他自己也非常清楚的對國人表示道歉聘了一個不適當的班甲人員我想他自主規劃也聲明對國人"},{"start":4082.409,"end":4090.392,"text":"的這個歉意我想這個不是他們自己的立場那教育部在第一時間已經非常嚴正的表達對這樣的活動因為不是我們自主規劃我們只能很清楚的說電競、運動競技這是一個非常重要支持國人支持這個選手的活動我們應該給最大的支持但絕對不能跟這些毒品什麼化整的這個就是政府最大的立場所以我想各位"},{"start":4108.178,"end":4115.821,"text":"這個跟政治毫無關係啦如果委員一路說他從一百多萬到兩百多萬難道委員覺得電競選手不應該支持他們嗎?部長啊本席要講這句之前早就知道你會扣帽子了喔不是扣帽子我告訴你本席跟大家一樣都非常地支持電競產業電競產業的發展未來要給予預算跟補助我完全贊成哇剛才的經費就是這個過程跟政治無關但是呢我從來沒有一位早前早交代應該跟這個協會什麼經費"},{"start":4135.307,"end":4160.713,"text":"部長今天的事情不是讓你要扣帽子的而是今天的事情是發生了這樣的一個事情發生了這樣的一個事情部長應該要拿出你的態度來不管是你嚴正的譴責沒有聽見你的嚴正譴責也沒有聽到你要去提告你只有簡簡單單做了適當的處理你的態度是軟弱的而還要給質詢的人扣帽子說我們不支持電競產業這樣是不對的你把體育跟運動跟政治掛鉤我不太認同啊"},{"start":4164.634,"end":4166.214,"text":"請大家尊重主席好嗎"},{"start":4194.019,"end":4195.48,"text":"請領域警委員質詢。謝主席,有請鄭署長。請署長。"},{"start":4214.479,"end":4241.548,"text":"署長早上週末的時候台北大巨蛋舉辦那個亞錦賽的開幕戰那服了32年的大巨蛋終於迎來第一場的正式賽那而且這次的對戰是我們全球全台灣球迷最熱烈關注的這個台韓大戰喔那這個具有歷史關鍵的一戰那署長你親自為這個比賽開球喔我想你應該非常的興奮"},{"start":4243.282,"end":4247.53,"text":"包委員其實我事前其實不曉得是當場才告知我的"},{"start":4247.961,"end":4251.263,"text":"大巨蛋開放球迷進場的第一場的測試賽我們有開放一萬三千人免費鎖票那門票一開放就秒殺那這次的亞錦賽的開幕戰也是開放到一萬七千人那我們辦公室助理在每一波試票的時候都開始搶那通通沒有搶到"},{"start":4276.155,"end":4289.345,"text":"那這兩場指標性的比賽這個座位數供不應求當然我們就知道會有黃牛票產生那免費的票甚至被炒到四、五千塊那亞錦賽的內野"},{"start":4292.808,"end":4321.387,"text":"他六百塊也都被炒到四、五千塊那當然這樣的狀況是非常的惡劣所以我們這次要修法就是要修運動產業發展條例就是有人抓到涉嫌販賣黃牛票的情況那我們叫他重罰除每張票卷十至五十倍的罰款我想這是好的方向不過本席想請教就是說像這次大巨蛋的測試賽是採取免費鎖票"},{"start":4322.85,"end":4338.221,"text":"那這個要怎麼罰黃牛票那如果之後有相關類似的這個測試賽或者是說像學生的這種運動比賽是免費的好像說HBL啊UBA這種那這種免費的"},{"start":4339.722,"end":4366.176,"text":"賽事黃牛拿到票再來轉售那這個要怎麼罰因為他票面是零所以我們就院版的這個10到50倍零乘以10到50還是零而且這種比賽也不是說比照這種這個文化文藝藝文展演就他每個座位齁的區塊有一個價格齁因為他全部免費嘛所以也沒有辦法有一個定價"},{"start":4367.336,"end":4385.941,"text":"那我可以理解就是說像這種大巨蛋的這種測試賽可能要好幾年才有一次可是對運動迷來講這個當然也是相當重要像我們之後我們台中會有一個國際級的台中足球園區在2025要完工嘛"},{"start":4389.562,"end":4416.656,"text":"可能也會面臨到這種狀況或被不肖的黃牛來破壞這種美式那所以免費鎖票的這種賽事到底要怎麼處理那本席是建議說是不是可以用抽籤或使民智的方式來進行這樣民眾就不會一直刷票就是說他可能先登記然後我們再用電腦抽籤像之前的動資券或者是一方券都是這樣的概念在操作所以署長你覺得這種"},{"start":4418.317,"end":4419.998,"text":"免費的黃牛票怎麼遏止?"},{"start":4448.617,"end":4448.958,"text":"委員洪孟楷"},{"start":4463.902,"end":4482.967,"text":"現象在很多年才會出現一次所以目前我們是鼓勵業者未來像台中如果要開始要開箱的時候我們會鼓勵他用實名制的方式所以在修法裡面沒有打算要在修法裡面處理目前當然也是因為第一個在"},{"start":4485.688,"end":4505.595,"text":"懲罰的部分因為它本身沒有定價、票面價所以它價值本身的確是沒有它的商品價值那實名制的部分我們其實之前也有規劃過但是業者這部分其實他們是比較持保留的態度因為說實在在運動賽會如果讓民眾要求他們提早兩個小時到現場然後去排隊驗證然後"},{"start":4509.997,"end":4517.242,"text":"苦等兩個小時說實在可能會造成更大的反彈所以這部分目前我們是採取鼓勵但是我們不強制"},{"start":4518.707,"end":4539.164,"text":"好 沒關係 因為我們等一下要修法要審法案所以我們那時候再來詳細討論只是我還是覺得說用行政措施來處理這種賽事的就是說二紙黃牛票確實也不是一個長久之計的沒關係 我們審法案再來談好了那另外我想要提到就是說因為"},{"start":4541.325,"end":4554.272,"text":"本席是很資深、很棒的球迷所以我想很多球迷也跟本席一樣就是說我們期待大巨蛋所謂軟液體設施的改進或者售票機制更加完備等等我們可以爭取更多知名的國際賽來台灣比賽"},{"start":4556.793,"end":4581.528,"text":"那像是日本職棒或者美國大聯盟的這種海外賽我想很多球迷都引起期盼或者緊接而來的2024的這個世界棒球十二強或2026的世界棒球經典賽體育署是不是有計劃要來協助來爭取在大巨蛋舉辦報告委員這部份我們已經跟棒協開始在研議爭取十二強跟經典賽來台灣來舉辦特別是到大巨蛋來"},{"start":4582.182,"end":4605.97,"text":"OK OK 因為我們超級期待像說大谷祥平阿或是Aero Judge可以再來台北來大聚大聊那另外我就說球迷觀賽的體驗我想也是運動賽是很重要的一環那我在預算提案的時候其實有提到說其實台灣現在很多的現有的棒球場排水設施阿照明設施其實有待改進的地方很多那體育署"},{"start":4606.85,"end":4624.081,"text":"現在有個球場優化改善專案計畫這個我真的很高興看到我們有這樣的計畫那要編三議員來優化所有的球場那包括桃園、包括新莊、台中洲際還有我們台南的亞太國際棒球場"},{"start":4625.862,"end":4647.504,"text":"那這個計畫要從113年到116嘛分四年預算來對那我想請教是說我們台南的這個亞太國際棒球場就是少棒球場現在開始啟用少棒球場從2019年嘛到現在已經四年了那這個要什麼樣的階段來施工這個優化工程"},{"start":4648.364,"end":4667.194,"text":"報告委員基本上就針對臺南亞太國際辦公室它已經正在施工那也預期明後年可以 喔這是新的對但是我們其實在優化的過程當中已經在同步進行所以我們在近期已經獲得行政院的核訂這項特別預算那已經通知這幾個縣市的體育局前過來提案來做這個進費的申請已經在進行當中"},{"start":4675.598,"end":4695.546,"text":"好 了解因為我理解是說這個優化工程是應該是說去這個優化這個現有的舊的球場主要是針對觀眾的關賽相關的比方說他的座位洗啦他的廁所啦燈光啦這方面的為主好 了解那剩下一點時間請部長"},{"start":4701.921,"end":4706.968,"text":"委員好部長我想跟你談一下這個中國的這個短音音這個抖音這個這個問題我想在"},{"start":4709.929,"end":4732.597,"text":"一個多月就要大選那很多外媒都關注中國會透過我們的這種社群平台來介入大選那像中國運用這個抖音來進行政治宣傳啊散佈台灣的什麼缺電啊缺水啊缺疫苗這種假訊息那試圖營造台灣一個民不聊生的狀況來分化台灣人民而且他們也會汙名"},{"start":4733.877,"end":4761.212,"text":"不明化香港的民主抗爭者或稱西方的防疫士林等等他們就是要營造一個中國好棒棒的形象那這已經是一個認知作戰那我想抖音喔抖音現在是這樣就是說我們有一篇報導說請來大學教授、中學跟小學老師來觀察學生使用抖音的狀況就發現學齡學齡越低使用抖音的這個比例越高"},{"start":4762.272,"end":4789.715,"text":"甚至有老師在一小學六年級來進行一些問卷調查結果有在使用跟曾經使用抖音的孩子佔了四分之三所以這令人擔憂的狀況是說這種抖音就是他很輕鬆的接收到訊息不用多費心思這會讓孩子喪失閱讀跟深度思考的能力所以這個議題其實當然我們也很難禁止說孩子不能使用抖音那可是我覺得教育部怎麼樣"},{"start":4790.356,"end":4813.948,"text":"有正確教導孩子有正確的使用方式跟媒體識讀那你們公佈一個新版就是《數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書》裡面有提到說我們現在就是要趕快培養禁用、行動、反思、創造、分析等等的能力來進行平原思考說到其他部長說那我們教育部到底有沒有掌握學生使用抖音或小紅書的這種動機和食肉頻率的相關數據嗎這是跟委員報告嗎"},{"start":4819.911,"end":4838.946,"text":"這個確實抖音對尤其年齡越低的這些青少年學生那有產生的負面影響所以我們除了持續做宣導之外我也跟委員報告在7月10號我們也在他內的這個封鎖阻擋讓他們在中小學是不會只當然在學校啦如果在一般"},{"start":4839.426,"end":4855.889,"text":"其他場所是不容易我們也做了這個動作那也表達著學生在學校內是比較不可能去使用到使用到那個抖音跟小紅書的這方面那也做了一些阻擋的效果"},{"start":4856.249,"end":4881.21,"text":"那另外一個委根文報告這確實要不斷還是用宣導啦因為網路世界就是無所不在那麼對於他在青少年網路的內容相關的防護的這部分我們會持續的來辦理那麼尤其是剛才委員所提到的我們在數位時代媒體素養的教育白皮書裡面對於這方面的使用其實是在包含到師資的養成過程當中"},{"start":4883.792,"end":4901.361,"text":"委員會特別提醒,因為我覺得老師能夠適時的,尤其我們現在根本全面的都用進入到這些教學透過數位,包含載具、軟體等等的這些的過程,我覺得我們這部分一直都是在思培的過程,老師專業層"},{"start":4902.341,"end":4902.541,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":4928.865,"end":4932.55,"text":"謝謝部長、謝謝林益勤委員的質詢。再來我們請張亮萬堅委員質詢。好,謝謝。我們請那個部長。好,請潘部長。"},{"start":4944.588,"end":4958.656,"text":"委員好部長好我想我們今天要修運動產業發展條例當然跟這個黃牛票這個有關係那其實體育的黃牛票其實並不罕見我們剛才看到那個巨蛋巨蛋事件那我們其實往前推"},{"start":4959.597,"end":4971.89,"text":"那像這個彭正敏的引退那一場大概2019年那個在網路上923塊的這個門票啊超過了13倍被飆到了喊價喊到了12,323像這樣也算黃牛票嘛對不對好"},{"start":4975.573,"end":5001.263,"text":"另外像去年的美國直男明星魔獸他加入桃園雲報結果黃牛票也從一百塊最便宜一百塊漲到兩千三像這樣的事情包括我們最近看到這個亞錦賽其實亞錦賽以前再怎麼熱門因為像日本他只是派那個社會球隊的精英那其實台灣是因為棒球是國球大家都很喜歡看"},{"start":5001.783,"end":5015.93,"text":"但是過去大概除了殺盡冠亞軍以外大概一般的這個說會弄到爆滿像經典賽這樣其實比較少但是這一次可能是因為巨蛋是第一次開放然後台灣有了巨蛋所以大家都想要去體驗"},{"start":5017.071,"end":5024.175,"text":"那你看這次開放了三波第一波這個25號11月24號這個三千張那也是秒殺那後來主辦單位開賣了25、28、30號分別賣了一萬張、三千張跟一千張都是秒殺真的是秒殺那"},{"start":5036.791,"end":5050.884,"text":"這個我其實在網路上也收到很多這個球迷的這個抗議跟陳情他們認為說這個根本就是用那個掃票機器掃的那這樣的掃然後公然的烘台那我們因為運產條例還沒有修"},{"start":5052.845,"end":5069.756,"text":"這個大概抓到了我們目前有抓到嘛 對不對抓到了大概只用那個微軟社會秩序維護法來罰那抓了67個黃牛170張票你看這個黃牛的囂張的程度其實讓球迷非常的生氣也非常的不滿所以我想今天的修法"},{"start":5070.296,"end":5094.867,"text":"委員長大概是草野共識啦希望趕快修法好那其實我們其實都很期待像這個重要的賽事能夠得到球迷的支持尤其是在疫情之後其實我們看到最近的這個重要的藝文活動其實都還不錯包括我們的運動都還不錯像之前國內的體壇其實歷經一段低潮啦譬如說這個直男"},{"start":5095.507,"end":5098.67,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形．並備質詢。」進行專題報告．"},{"start":5120.991,"end":5144.61,"text":"剛才署長也有提到其實我想不只是明年的十二強賽後年的經典賽其實明年初可能就是三月份其實就有獨脈巨人90週年的一個紀念只要他到巨蛋去打我相信都是熱門的球賽尤其是獨脈巨人裡面以前早期台灣的球星呂明次也曾在那邊打過怪力呂明次"},{"start":5146.791,"end":5170.13,"text":"對台灣人來講獨賣巨人也是一個大家非常想要看的球隊那我們都希望說我們不希望看到今天這次被秒殺之後又拿出來賣黃牛一抓67個還沒抓了多少所以我想要跟部長講、署長講就是說我們除了有法律之外我們有幾個問題必須面對怎麼樣去抓"},{"start":5173.573,"end":5195.986,"text":"譬如說我們這次的修法我們文化部的修法其實這個運動產業發展條例這個二十四條之一其實跟文化創意產業發展法的十條之一的內容這六條差不多大同小異大概也是罰十到五十倍那最多關三年或罰三百萬那其實我們來看一看就王創文創法修法之後"},{"start":5197.806,"end":5222.673,"text":"這個我們看一下實施的一個狀況其實被檢舉的大概500案那六都裡面一共333案我們如果目前來看臺北市檢舉的案件最多213案那目前只裁罰了5案5案裡面罰了44.16萬那另外還有26萬沒有罰那其他的案件可能都在調查中也沒有那麼快來成案那其他你看新北、桃園、台中"},{"start":5223.593,"end":5241.627,"text":"臺南都還沒有開罰的這個案例那高雄呢檢舉了65案8件成立那罰了42.98萬看起來是比社會秩序維護法1.8萬多了一些錢但是呢也只有17案那我要講的是說這被罰的13案也不過罰了87萬好"},{"start":5243.709,"end":5249.833,"text":"那我們現在好了黃牛條文如果上路我們今天修法過了那案件那麼多裁罰少那三項文創無法創意這個文創"},{"start":5255.137,"end":5279.142,"text":"相關的條例通過之後我們抓了這個文化黃牛那333案只划了13案那原因到底是什麼我們在場是不是也有這個文化部或者是其他的官員來了是不是來講一下另外進文化部他是有設立一個檢舉黃牛的專區喔那我們教育部會設置這個檢舉的專區嗎這部分根本報告有必要還是跟文化部一起同一個窗口因為有的球迷搞不清楚啊"},{"start":5280.062,"end":5306.867,"text":"委員應該說我們會設置專區自己是不是跟文化部共同這我們兩個部會會上一下會上一下要不要設統一窗口還是分別設還是說它統一窗口進去之後它分流分成文化的跟運動的而且這個對年輕人來講這是他們能夠來看球賽很重要的一個管道那如果說每次看到熱門賽事想要去看就被烘台到那種不成比例的價格我想"},{"start":5307.627,"end":5322.917,"text":"求名跟這些會非常失望另外就是大家都提到免費票要怎麼罰的問題因為我們的條例裡面包括運動產業發展條例裡面都沒有提到免費票怎麼罰那這個我剛才講的是不是署長或部長能夠回應我"},{"start":5324.456,"end":5344.862,"text":"委員當然這個實名制啦確實比較能夠防止這個方面就是免費票的部分當然這個要變成完全全面有時候碰到有一些我知道業者會認為時間太長排隊排太久這個方面我想我們是可以做一個因為在目前的修法的內容裡面確實"},{"start":5346.863,"end":5346.963,"text":"我其實剛才"},{"start":5365.922,"end":5394.656,"text":"不是啦,我剛才問的重點有兩個嘛一個就是我們其實有了法,法修過之後以文化的黃牛來看檢舉很多但罰的很少它會不會造成一個嚇阻作用那其實這些掃票機器也抓到了啊我看這次聽說抓到兩個掃票機器掃票機器它可以判刑的,三年以下的我們會不會判刑這個東西如果說只是提高罰款額度可是跟整個利益整個黃牛產業利益不成比例的時候坦白講沒有作用"},{"start":5396.168,"end":5399.64,"text":"所以我問一下署長署長因你在學界跟實務界這樣看"},{"start":5401.466,"end":5428.72,"text":"這個法修這樣有沒有惡主的作用?基本上如果是單就個人去搶票然後拿來販賣的話我想我們的目前比較文化部的這個修法用這樣子的十到五十倍的罰款應該是還算符合至於掃票機器人這部分的確有必要用這掃票機器人很可惡啊你看幾秒鐘全部都掃光了啊對,所以的確有需要判"},{"start":5429.52,"end":5448.131,"text":"判刑,不過我想這部分還是應該...那個很可能就是一個批發商嘛,我掃到的時候批給小黃牛,小黃牛再出去賣。所以這個一定要建立一個,你們一定要去追,一定要去...這個源頭如果沒有打擊的話,底下的小黃牛一定是沒有辦法餓足啦。好不好,我們看從文化黃牛看起來有這個現象。"},{"start":5449.292,"end":5471.781,"text":"那其他抓到的可能到現在也還在起訴中啦或者說也還沒有正式提出告訴啦我們也都會密切注意啦讀法不足以自刑坦白講修了法利益良善但有沒有辦法遏阻又是一個問題另外就是免費票我剛才講第二個免費票的問題你們還是要有一個辦法來阻止啦好不好好最後一個對不起再給我兩分鐘我先問一下那個署長"},{"start":5473.081,"end":5494.289,"text":"我在審預算的時候11月6號的時候提到那個宮西靶場的事情那宮西靶場11月6號我提的時候那時候是整幕凍結100萬而已但不想凍結預算那我們也知道其實剛才部長在報告裡面我們的奧運選手2024年已經有16位選手達到標準會比賽其中有5個選手就是涉及的選手"},{"start":5495.672,"end":5519.999,"text":"涉及是這麼的重要我們已經我們的成績已經有五位達標了五位達標他們都是在宮西靶場練習結果宮西靶場心理師啊招聘已經一年了所以我當時關心一個月前我省域上非常關心因為我們去考察的時候裡面的教練、協會、幹部都說這個心理師對於涉及選手非常重要可是我非常失望"},{"start":5520.879,"end":5531.947,"text":"因為你們11月29號剛剛上網招標的招募的這個公西靶場計畫運動心理人員到12月7號明天為止我請問有人投遞嗎?"},{"start":5533.539,"end":5534.439,"text":"坦白講我非常不滿意"},{"start":5554.958,"end":5582.921,"text":"11月6號我們才做了這樣決議,凍結了。我們希望說,好,我們希望說能夠提,調高薪水,你們說會,會調高薪水。人才,市場人才已經很少了。那我們奧運選手16位,現在已經有5位是徹底選手了。結果我們到現在還是用原來薪水招聘,但招聘不到嘛。你們夠積極嗎?我非常質疑喔。我希望這部分能夠更積極喔,好不好。有資源,也給你們了,也在關心了,可是現在上網徵,徵,這個,招募的還是這種薪水。"},{"start":5583.741,"end":5598.866,"text":"還是又要再開一次會我覺得這個後勤的資源啊也未免讓我太失望好不好積極一點去輔導這些選手已經五位囉我們已經過這個五位了男女涉及的選手已經有五位了已經16位已經五位囉拜託一下好不好積極一點好謝謝好謝謝委員部長署長請回謝謝張亮萬堅委員再來我們請黃國書委員質詢"},{"start":5612.421,"end":5615.964,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請部長、署長。有請部長、署長。委員好。署長好。大巨蛋開幕首戰,台灣迎球當然大家都很振奮,但是事先大家都說這個會有黃牛喔,後來果然有黃牛。"},{"start":5631.894,"end":5659.916,"text":"那事先當然知道了那署長也說要正式要來修法這個當然值得鼓勵啦當然要修法文化部的一些很多的演出有黃牛文化部都修法了那當然我們體育署這邊當然也要有積極作為不過要怎麼樣來處理就是說明明事先就知道他會有黃牛結果我們還是眼睜睜的看著黃牛事件發生"},{"start":5661.553,"end":5679.971,"text":"我沒有什麼辦法在事先防範這我要來跟我們體育署討論大巨蛋搶完票就湧出黃牛票臺北市議員就說臺北市政府明明知道也是擺爛當然臺北市政府他們也要承擔很大的這樣子的責爛"},{"start":5682.048,"end":5704.953,"text":"那文創法有針對藝文演出的黃牛有在執行了6月2號就開始實施了但是他受理藝文表演票券的黃牛的檢舉又是後來檢舉當然重罰那我們來檢視一下以文創法規範的這一些藝文演出照目前的狀況"},{"start":5708.544,"end":5711.286,"text":"從6月開始到11月底文創法管轄總共行事要件要齊備這個齊備要多麻煩要取得的這些加價轉售票時間管道平台你都要具體的要指出還有販售人的姓名別稱聯絡電話電子郵件其他聯絡等等也就是說他要有這些要件那這些要件都要非常的具體"},{"start":5739.067,"end":5766.634,"text":"這個對檢舉人來說這個的確是很麻煩所以才會形成說總共才有334件是刑事要被起見的不齊備的有500多件所以說我們經過這麼多文創法管轄的範圍內的檢舉齊備的構成違反文創法的就是構成荒謬的只有38%那這個要給我們體育署參考因為接下來我們要修法嘛就38%"},{"start":5768.066,"end":5784.088,"text":"那你們未來要怎麼樣處理這個部分那個檢舉的要件需要這個樣子嗎但是問題是這很兩難如果我們沒有這一些要件的話繁瑣的要件的話那它很難構成"},{"start":5785.345,"end":5800.277,"text":"具體的事證所以這個都很麻煩處理了所以體育署你們在未來要做這個專法的確要非常非常的更進一步來思考我如何在取締這個體育黃牛我們在"},{"start":5803.933,"end":5829.01,"text":"運動產業相關的法治上我們如何有辦法有效的具體的來處理這個部分那現在黃牛的城市掃票你要用AI去買票啊你也很難去找到當事人是誰那怎麼辦呢人家都用運用高科技的在買黃牛票的那我們要怎麼樣來執行這個也是有高難度的這個部分也要給體育署你們參考所以我們才會想到說"},{"start":5830.578,"end":5857.531,"text":"那乾脆來做實名制好了可是體育署署長說如果用實名制的話會造成民眾在入場的時候一個很大的困擾但是臺北市政府說應該要研議實名制臺北市政府說要研議實名制那體育署署長說這會造成很大的困擾所以目前不研議實名制那到底該不該來做實名制"},{"start":5858.769,"end":5883.598,"text":"我想不出更好的辦法也就是說明明知道這一場一定會有黃牛票事先就已經知道了我們還眼睜睜的看著黃牛的選委發聲那政府沒有更好的辦法更好的策略嗎我不是說一定要實名制但是實名制是一個策略有沒有具體可行的辦法如果沒有具體可行的辦法實名制當然就是策略的一種"},{"start":5884.946,"end":5897.668,"text":"那當然我們不可能每一場都實名制嘛臺灣跟韓國這個一定會有黃牛啊臺灣跟香港就不會有黃牛嘛所以一定是針對有可能有黃牛的我們體育署要事先預告這一場會有黃牛黃牛你不要囂張我們會嚴懲重罰然後我們這一場我們會採取什麼樣子的策略讓黃牛止步你至少要先有一些宣示性的做法嘛"},{"start":5914.96,"end":5941.085,"text":"大巨蛋的首戰我們就是眼睜睜的看著黃牛猖獗然後我們束手無策然後事後才說我們要來修法我們要來接受檢舉弄到來人家黃牛的行為都已經賺飽飽了然後還讓黃牛猖獗的這些人笑我們政府然後我沒辦法你就拿我沒辦法你怎麼辦呢想出具體可行的辦法啦好再來"},{"start":5942.509,"end":5959.415,"text":"對於運動產業除了黃牛會造成很大的影響之外我認為這個直攬的甲球風暴這個會對我們台灣的運動產業會有造成非常非常大的傷害運採條例二十一條"},{"start":5960.836,"end":5970.488,"text":"是重罰的那最近針對孜然甲球的風暴要有開閘指標性的案件這個很好但我們來看運產發行條例裡頭它怎麼規範這個都重罰欸"},{"start":5977.367,"end":6002.713,"text":"強暴、脅迫、詐術非法的方法這處一年以上七年以下的有期徒刑如果是劫火三人就是他是一個團體犯罪的話他更處三年以上我們這個重罰那台灣的運財是針對中華之棒當然還有職籃那我想問一下體育署你們要去掌握到底還有多少場比賽是沒有開盤的我現在"},{"start":6004.821,"end":6017.883,"text":"如列給你們參考。好,下一頁。好,職棒有很多是運材沒有開盤的場數,是這樣子。職籃還是有很多沒有開盤。那我要特別提到了"},{"start":6019.06,"end":6042.569,"text":"職人的PLG跟T1台灣的運材是沒有提供投注的這個是一個很大的黑數那這些台灣運材沒有投注的他們讀什麼當然是地下賭盤啊地下賭盤都是針對PLG跟T1那這個如果逮到的話用什麼罪沒有辦法用運材條例來"},{"start":6046.25,"end":6057.048,"text":"來處罰,那個是重罪啊重刑啊但是沒有這個提供投注的沒有開盤的這些T1跟PLG啊你改到他只能用賭博罪賭博罪是罰多少錢啊五萬以下"},{"start":6060.086,"end":6081.081,"text":"所以當然這個會是地下賭盤猖獗的這個部分所以我在這裡建議就是說除了我們運產條例21條來重罰之外我們針對那一些台灣運產沒有規範到的沒有開盤的那些賽事的地下賭盤我們還是要提出一些有效的做法"},{"start":6082.515,"end":6110.344,"text":"以上針對黃牛跟這個甲球對台灣的運動產業會造成非常大的傷害請署長或是部長應該回答謝謝委員剛剛對這方面的很多的提醒那當然運動賽事跟活動這部分今天如果能夠在我們貴人會獲得委員們的同意支持我想這個在法制面上跟過去只是用社會秩序維護的這個強度是完全不同"},{"start":6111.064,"end":6136.764,"text":"那委員也剛才提到包括以文化部他們在藝文門票這個時事到現在的一些進行提醒我想這部分這部提議書也會跟文化部我們就執行的面因為有一個法制的基礎下能不能有效這個是委員剛才所提到的我想這部分我們兩個部會會進一步的在做這方面的研討那至於剛才委員提到如果地下的這方面確實是目前"},{"start":6137.825,"end":6156.34,"text":"法規並沒有特別再去點到的那這個我們可能真的需要比較深入的來做一些探討啦那個謝謝委員剛才所提的這些相關的提醒事項我想教育部會來持續的做如果法治通過了之後我想後面在執行上我們希望能夠"},{"start":6159.222,"end":6184.975,"text":"有更嚴厲的、好的方式那如果在很多的場次確實以實名制因為那是最根本的走向如果在相關的配套可行的之下我想這部分我們應該跟主辦單位希望能夠盡量朝這個方向因為主要都是在維護觀眾的觀賞權益啦我們相信主辦單位如果技術各方面能搭配的起來這確實是一個比較更根本的方法"},{"start":6185.535,"end":6200.944,"text":"好 我們針對一些熱門的場次我認為體育組應該去研擬規劃類實名制的做法那一方面我們當然要減少那個繁複的要去參觀 要去參看"},{"start":6202.865,"end":6230.298,"text":"觀看的時候的那些要去進到那個場地的時候那些作業的程序那非常非常繁瑣當然你們去想辦法做一些簡化的作業然後運用現在的科技現在的科技其實可以非常便捷的來解決這個問題那至少我在事前宣告我這一場是要實名制的其實就是有效要遏止黃牛嘛這一場都要實名制我黃牛幹嘛去掃票啊然後加上事後的重罰"},{"start":6232.037,"end":6238.599,"text":"這個給你們參考啦好不好好謝謝委員謝謝部長請回謝謝黃國書委員的質詢再來我們請陳敬明委員質詢那待會陳秀寶委員質詢結束後我們休息五分鐘好謝謝主席我想請部長跟鄭署長請部長還有署長"},{"start":6256.858,"end":6276.061,"text":"委員好 部長早安 署長早安那我想今天針對那個運發條例的審查前面很多的委員已經有很多的垂審了那我自己個人也是對於我們現在這個不論是職棒、職籃受到了很多的我們全國民眾的喜愛我真的真的覺得"},{"start":6277.082,"end":6302.396,"text":"好棒喔 好久沒有這種熱血感了齁那特別是大巨蛋開幕的時候大家對於能夠贏韓國齁更是一個連我們這種對運動沒有很有熱衷的齁看到這樣子的一個結果都非常的受到的激勵跟鼓舞啦齁那當然大家也會覺得是說喔那好不容易有這樣子的一個氛圍起來了怎麼樣子不要辜負民眾的一個期待"},{"start":6302.956,"end":6313.766,"text":"讓大家都能夠進球場去看賽是很重要的一個我們期待我們部裡面要拿出來的一個態度那但是的確剛剛國書委員也提到了光這一場大巨蛋我們就已經看到相關的黃牛猖獗的問題那當然我們知道在過去這個文創法上面我們其實已經做了相關的修法了"},{"start":6328.26,"end":6339.443,"text":"那一份已經修法囉這一些代購啊搶票的一個狀況還是有發生吼所以我這裡可能真的只能請這邊部裡面跟署長這邊來承諾吼特別是剛剛部長也提到了說如果在今天我們的運發條例通過了以後"},{"start":6347.165,"end":6359.548,"text":"能夠讓部裡更有武器來做這件事我覺得我們的教文委員會一定是這些委員一定是充分的支持只是從過去我們的文創一本修法以後還看到很大的一個問題像剛剛國書委員給的資料我們38%的案件"},{"start":6365.37,"end":6388.563,"text":"才能夠成案表示很多數是沒有辦法成案的表示這些檢舉的制度可能還需要再做檢討那除了剛剛國屬委員提到的部分以外我再給部裡一個資料就是說就算成案的這個檢舉成案的這個案件當中以地方政府真的裁罰成功的也只有六案"},{"start":6389.483,"end":6409.742,"text":"也是只有高雄有成案所以這裡我可能要提醒我們部裡是不是在我們的相關的處罰上面可以跟高雄市政府這邊來互相討論一下為什麼他可以確定有裁處那其他的部分都沒有辦法成功主要是我們真的也覺得是說"},{"start":6410.963,"end":6435.874,"text":"這樣子的一個檢舉制度,如果能夠讓它很實際的落實的話,這個也比較不會辜負民眾對於現在運動賽事的期待啦。是,謝謝委員,包含剛才國樹委員也在提醒,確實從這個議文這個發行之後啦,那也看到有一些在執行面上,怎麼樣可以有更好的"},{"start":6436.734,"end":6455.135,"text":"作法可以達到有效的遏止。這個方面我想如果今天通過這個法,我們會跟文化部還有巴隆蓋委員提醒有些地方政府執行的那個有效的方法是怎麼樣做。我想這些都是後面教育部體育署這邊會來努力的。"},{"start":6456.977,"end":6478.566,"text":"對啦,這種跨部會的合作上面既然已經前面有這樣子的一個經驗值的時候我們就可以避免再走冤枉路了嘛好,謝謝那另外當然這個可能前天這一件事也很多的委員關注啦這個TOYS都已經承認它有吸毒跟販毒了那結果當然這個"},{"start":6480.327,"end":6508.684,"text":"我們教育部體育署這邊很快速的就說沒有我們並沒有做相關的補助但是事實上他還是把我們列為指導單位那當然就會讓很多的家長非常的關心如果他已經是對我們青少年特別是電子競技運動的話是以青少年為主那如果我們還讓這一些人能夠大剌剌的上台頒獎好像宣誓的一個態度就是他"},{"start":6509.184,"end":6529.98,"text":"曾經是HERO他犯錯了大家都還是可以原諒他那這樣子的一個態度其實對家長來說是很不能夠接受的所以這個部分可能也要請部裡面這邊再強一點除了說我們很清楚的說我們不是列席指導單位以外是不是還有更強硬的一個措施啊譬如說我們雖然沒有補助這一場"},{"start":6531.621,"end":6558.998,"text":"可是我的辦公室助理去請我們體育署調相關的一個資料我們110年補助他240萬111年補助240萬今年更是補助290萬喔所以我們對於已經補助的一個金額或者是我們有沒有什麼辦法可以讓家長看到我們教育部對於他們這樣子的一個行為是很不能夠接受的特別是他冒名把我們作為指導單位"},{"start":6560.879,"end":6567.785,"text":"跟委員報告確實我們支持體育競技包含電競因為它已經是亞運未來都可能成為奧運而且確實在今年的亞運我們的電競也有很好的表現"},{"start":6576.632,"end":6582.237,"text":"這個我想是一個我們在整個政策上值得鼓勵但是教育部包含我們行政院跨部會對反讀的那個立場也確實是非常的明確而且也是嚴格的在執行所以這兩個絕對不容許有掛鉤、連結的現象這個是我想我們在第一時間"},{"start":6597.93,"end":6615.727,"text":"為什麼我請體育署一定要說明這個情形我想主辦單位雖然在過程當中其實他也在瞭解第一時間他也跟國人道歉也跟這個因為沒有得到體育署的同意就掛名也跟體育署表示這樣的歉意那當然後續我覺得我也請體育署這邊"},{"start":6620.652,"end":6625.136,"text":"第一個對電競協會的這部分在支持電競運動選手的培訓參與比賽我們這點支持但是呢也嚴格的要求我想如果是在有這一種不適當的安排結果造成社會的疑慮這個對我們參與電競的這些選手其實也是一個很大的負擔也會擔心加上"},{"start":6643.394,"end":6644.194,"text":"家長更多疑慮與疑心。目前電競逐步逐步在發展中"},{"start":6660.339,"end":6665.825,"text":"那對於這幾年的他們的經費的增加即使都是在做相關選手的培訓跟參賽尤其亞運今年剛剛才完成這個才是經費增加的原因"},{"start":6675.595,"end":6682.402,"text":"有的確有都是跟什麼選拔賽有關的費用的支持是這一些這一次的辦的這個反而不是一個電競比賽也不是一個什麼頒獎他完全是一個什麼表揚但是這個我認為這個確實對社會造成的疑慮"},{"start":6693.993,"end":6696.354,"text":"我想這部分我也請體育署一定要非常嚴正的包含對該協會應該進行的輔導跟要求這個我一直認為體育競賽、體育競技這本身對社會是一個非常正向的但是"},{"start":6709.558,"end":6734.449,"text":"在相關活動的安排、人員的邀請上,這個部分,態度應該是要非常的謹慎。好,那我們就再請布里這邊,不好意思時間不夠了。那另外這個當然就是我們知道,剛剛一直提到對於選手的保護是很重要的。那我想要提的就是國訓中心。那我想這個2019年已經發生了,今天是不是那個李文斌執行長也有列席吧?"},{"start":6735.149,"end":6752.975,"text":"那我們發現說已經有這樣子的一個情況2019年那個執行長也說要對宿舍的管理要做相關的管理但是我們昨天還是前天還是發生了這樣子的一個情況我覺得這個可能是你都已經知道有這件事情了還讓"},{"start":6754.495,"end":6778.829,"text":"這樣子的一個奧運我們未來的一個選手這麼重要有潛力可以為我們爭排的選手發生這樣因為我很不希望我們已經有培訓的選手未來發生什麼樣子的一個問題當然這個其實男女之間本來就是我們不會是禁止啦但是如果因為這樣影響其他的選手我覺得這個就是一個很大的問題所以對不起時間不夠我可能沒有辦法讓您回應但是我"},{"start":6779.809,"end":6796.857,"text":"強烈請我們國訓中心要來把剛剛提到的宿舍管理這件事要落實好不好好第三個很重要的對不起我可以請國教署嗎我知道我們國教署教育部一百零八年就針對我們的健康中心的設施設備"},{"start":6798.058,"end":6819.139,"text":"有做這個的規範那很重要的是這個規範就是要讓學生當受傷或者是需要去健康中心的時候可以有好的照顧但是我的這個辦公室就接到了檢舉我從九月開始處理到這件事到現在其實家長還對於我們處理的方式非常的不滿意"},{"start":6820.16,"end":6842.172,"text":"主要是來我給你看部長給你看一下非常奇葩的地方他說我們的這個健康服務中心一定要有獨立的空間但是因為因故找不到校戶所以我就把健康服務中心跟老師的辦公室放在一起然後用這樣子的一個塑膠隔連隔起來"},{"start":6843.112,"end":6869.186,"text":"然後有相關的隱私我就用這樣子的一個圍欄圍起來那請問學童可以有好的休息嗎更重要的感控那老師在做討論的時候學生有辦法跟校戶表達相關的問題嗎我知道這個是地方教育局的權責可是我們的教育部已經我透過國聯請我們的教育部跟國教署說去輔導"},{"start":6870.166,"end":6898.413,"text":"但是學校的回應是說經過了學校的討論了以後這個是最恰當的來部長這個是最恰當的嗎請問跟委員報告兩點第一點您所揭示這個圖我們會跟他再確認一下他那個隔間如果他需要這樣的話但是我們發現另外一個委員原來告訴我們更嚴重的問題就是說原來這個問題是他移到了"},{"start":6899.173,"end":6903.578,"text":"救護車沒有辦法去的地方也告訴我們這個事情所以我們也掉了圖了花蓮縣昨天還有今天兩天一直在輔導我們看結果怎麼樣需要我們協助的部分不管是經費或是他專科教室要再改一次我們都可以大力來協助以學童的健康"},{"start":6918.793,"end":6941.968,"text":"當然啦,當然,而且我們已經有相關的辦法不過最重要的是他很大的一個理由是因為找不到校戶,校戶兼了很多的行政工作啊這個我已經講了非常多次了齁就是我們的校戶不能夠兼行政書務的工作但是擺明了他現在就告訴我們說找不到校戶是因為校戶沒有辦法在衛生中心裡面所以我是不是就是請部長這邊"},{"start":6943.089,"end":6958.76,"text":"在承諾說能夠讓這個校戶的一個代理制度一定要落實然後要有學校的一個獨立的健康服務中心好不好時間到了那請部長之後再回應謝謝部長請回謝謝陳敬明委員的質詢再來我們請鄭麗文委員質詢陳秀寶委員質詢完後我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":6971.24,"end":6974.688,"text":"謝主席請部長跟署長有請部長還有署長趙薇紅"},{"start":6979.787,"end":7002.874,"text":"好,那麼這個發生了這個TOYS跟統神的這個電競的找販毒來頒獎的事情引起社會非常嚴重的軒然大波那麼我看到教育部體育署第一時間當然是競速的切割表示說這個是他們根本沒有經過你們的同意掛名的第二個"},{"start":7004.22,"end":7006.809,"text":"體育署也沒有補助這個活動所以換句話說這個活動的整個的舉辦的過程你們並不知情"},{"start":7011.181,"end":7039.157,"text":"那問題是說現在網路上已經炸鍋了這是一個態度的問題那麼我們看到上一次也曾經因為0到6歲一起養這個影片我們也在這邊關切過當時也是影片內容不宜網路炸鍋那我們看到教育部下架最後部長也道歉了那麼今天這件事情童神也怒嗆了說居然找一個販毒的來頒獎"},{"start":7040.737,"end":7058.605,"text":"全網炸鍋那麼這件事情雖然體育署已經表達了嚴正的立場也已經切割說明但我想第一個想先請教部長跟署長你們覺得這件事情需不需要向社會大眾來道歉呢請教部長"},{"start":7060.025,"end":7084.28,"text":"跟委員報告這個事前確實我們並不了解也沒有參與任何的規劃那主辦單位就我所了解到的訊息在第一時間他確實也公開的跟國人也包含跟體育署來因為本來就沒有徵得體育署的同意對我看到報導說是體育署要求他們要道歉這個部長那您覺得體育署署長要不要道歉呢為這件事情"},{"start":7086.429,"end":7094.372,"text":"我要報告的是說為什麼在零到六歲國家一講那個影片我話不說因為那是我們自己辦理自己規劃都做的你們也是發包給家長協會啊這個不是切割啦我要講這兩件事情的差別是什麼零到六歲國家一講那個影片是教育部是主辦的單位"},{"start":7108.257,"end":7131.764,"text":"是找專業的是那這一次這個是完全是民間的運動的協會他自主規劃啊也所以您覺得部長您覺得署長也不需要道歉這個我們應該表達的是好那部長是這樣但是我要表達的一件事清楚的是說因為這個電競已經也是列為體育競技的這件事情"},{"start":7132.578,"end":7161.329,"text":"這個是國人關注的 這個我都知道部長你不需要再重複了我了解你的態度 我們這是重要我們也表達的 是是是我了解你的態度所以我接下來想要了解的是說當你們發生這樣一個非常離譜很扯很瞎的事情的時候那麼除了第一時間做危機處理做切割會不會覺得自己很倒霉還是會不會覺得自己很生氣呢我想要請問一下署長就是說發生這種事情那你們的感受是什麼"},{"start":7162.129,"end":7183.688,"text":"報告委員其實我們在第一時間的時候有聯繫電競協會去了解狀況那我們在第一時間的確對秘書長表達非常的不滿第一個他怎麼會找一個不恰當的人來做頒獎那我們所以我們在對外的說明我們第一個第一件事情就是向外宣稱我們教育部體育署"},{"start":7184.689,"end":7212.651,"text":"跟運動競技絕對不能跟毒品劃上等。所以很生氣兩個原因第一個,絕對不可以讓毒品來染黑了一個大家認為應該要支持的一個活動嘛第二個,居然還把你們一起拖下水跟你們無關的事情還讓你們掛名我想是主要是因為這兩個原因嘛那我不知道署長跟部長這兩天有沒有上網去看在生氣之餘有沒有了解整個過程發生的一個過程"},{"start":7213.769,"end":7240.618,"text":"我先請教署長好了你覺得是不是主辦單位故意的呢?主辦單位他們請這個TOYS來他不可能不知道他有販毒的前科啊那他為什麼還特別請他來呢?所以這件事情我想先請教署長你認為是一個嚴重的疏失還是他根本是故意請他來的呢?"},{"start":7242.571,"end":7267.057,"text":"報告委員這部分我在第一時間去詢問電競協會啦那基本上他們的態度就是他們覺得他也沒做錯了所以也沒有什麼需要辯論不是他們也做錯了是他們為什麼做這件事他們一開始可能覺得你覺得他們是故意的嗎我覺得他們或許啦因為對他們整個活動或許是一個話題但是我在第一時間告訴他這絕對不允許"},{"start":7267.907,"end":7284.249,"text":"好 因為這件事情統神是爆炸了因為你看到媒體的報導他是說當時他到現場要接受這個現場的時候工作人員有問他說如果TOYS到現場他會不會生氣"},{"start":7285.59,"end":7312.466,"text":"換句話說主辦單位是有意識到這件事情而不是沒有意識到這件事情的所以統神還講說反正剛我有什麼事啊 對不對所以他並沒有表示可是他說他後來看到要頒獎給他的人居然是TOYS的時候他的第一個反應就是說原來主辦單位要製造一個大家想要看到的效果因為他們過去有過節嘛是宿敵嘛"},{"start":7313.126,"end":7322.14,"text":"所以你看他第一個反應是說原來這個是主辦單位set好的要看到他們的效果然後呢您知不知道這件事情的流量有多少"},{"start":7328.198,"end":7351.325,"text":"網路上的流量 報告員基本上我在發生事情當晚就已經去電了我也告訴理事長這個事情的流量高達你看頒獎典禮的觀看人次現在已經高達24萬統神的直播26萬TOYS的直播高達48萬而且最扯的是他們居然還請他們帶小孩來"},{"start":7354.448,"end":7359.756,"text":"請統審他太太還有帶小朋友來說這是一個非常適合闔家一起來參與的"},{"start":7361.363,"end":7388.48,"text":"那是不是連這個都是事先塞好的呢?所以他的太太才會當場非常的憤怒拿著東西帶著小孩轉頭就走而且他本來沒有想要帶小孩來的耶是主辦單位鼓勵他帶小孩來參加參加什麼?參加一個販毒的人跟他的父親有過節當場在台上做這樣的演出你覺得這個適合小孩子到現場嗎?"},{"start":7389.741,"end":7394.964,"text":"所以這就是為什麼統神全家會高度憤怒的原因嘛那如果他是故意的、set好的為了我剛剛說的那樣的流量主辦單位已經達到他的目的啦因為這沒有比這個更好的宣傳連你們都被拖下水連你們都當了臨時演員連你們都當了墊背的"},{"start":7417.617,"end":7425.821,"text":"所以啊剛剛很多委員都提到了嘛你們從107年到112年年年補助甚至於112年度還補助高達將近300萬署長如果這個連你都覺得他可能是事先C好的不排除這個可能性"},{"start":7438.151,"end":7462.489,"text":"第一個我覺得你們應該去調查要求主辦單位徹底說明為什麼有安排這件事情出自於什麼樣的動機就是為了衝流量C還叫人家家屬帶著孩子來那如果您覺得跟我們所有的家長所有的國人包括本席一樣覺得這個太離譜太over了"},{"start":7465.197,"end":7476.249,"text":"這恐怕不是你們說跟你們無關要求他們道歉就可以囉如果是主辦單位為了充流量刻意塞好做這麼惡劣的事情"},{"start":7477.816,"end":7504.605,"text":"那你們應該要採取一定的懲罰性的作用吧你應該要求主辦單位第一個是不是應該撤換他們負責的工作人員呢是不是應該對他們的負責人做出一定的懲處呢還有你們未來下個年度的補助難道不需要做一定的修改跟改變嗎這件事情署長當然不可能是因為他們一個道歉然後你們一個切割"},{"start":7505.865,"end":7515.83,"text":"就結束落幕了嗎?你懂嗎?因為你這樣子他道歉值幾個錢啊?他早就想好了,對他來講道歉一點都不困難。這整個C好的衝了這樣子的一個流量,這種惡劣的行徑,"},{"start":7523.911,"end":7548.467,"text":"署長你現在冷靜想想連你們都被玩進去了連你們都被當冤大頭了不採取行動絕對會有下一次這麼加起來幾乎接近百萬的流量對他們來講就是最好的鼓勵這種風氣一定不可以助長所以請署長回答那你們採取什麼樣具體的行為呢"},{"start":7549.939,"end":7563.183,"text":"呃首先呢先報告委員我們之所以這幾年會將他的補助的金額提高是因為張我沒有問你為什麼提高啦為什麼提高你不用再講了你現在告訴我們接下來的作為是什麼就好了接下來基本上我們會針對他的"},{"start":7565.164,"end":7580.2,"text":"活動呢會做一個檢討基本上我們補助的立場都是在選手的培訓為主所以我們並不是補助他的任何的活動完全是在選手的培訓不是你還是沒有回答我的問題第一個你們是不是要求主辦單位提供你們完整的說明報告沒有說明沒有報告"},{"start":7582.762,"end":7593.532,"text":"就這樣子混過去了嗎?第一個是不是應該要求他們提供你們完整的說明報告呢?你們是不是應該主動的調查這件事情到底是誰的主意?誰在負責?為什麼會搞出這麼大的一個這麼離譜的戲來呢?"},{"start":7598.676,"end":7609.018,"text":"這部分我贊同委員的說法,我會去進行。好,那第二個,是不是要求他們內部也要做出他們的檢討跟具體懲處的作為。這個我們已經有去告知,然後我們還在進行當中啦。好,所以他們會有具體的懲處作為出來。我希望他們會有這樣子的結果。那你要要求啊。他如果不照做,你們就不補助嘛。欸,啊不然你們不是被人家當作凱子。但是鮑威,我們還是以選手為主啦。我們不是要去補助他協會的這個運作啊。我們是以選手的培訓經費。"},{"start":7627.441,"end":7633.667,"text":"所以你們完全沒有任何的武器你們只能道德勸說你現在跟我的意思是說你們只能道德勸說他不鳥你也沒有你們也沒有辦法補助還是要照常那只有電競協會只有他們一個人可以鼓勵台灣的電競活動沒有第二個組織沒有任何人可以取代了"},{"start":7647.26,"end":7662.092,"text":"所以你們完全被他們捏在手裡面所以他早就算好了所以他們吃定你們了是這樣嗎?那個時間已經到了那不是這樣是什麼?對不對?全台灣都在關注啊你們要拿出辦法你不可以騙人家撒謊騙人家騙人家你們會變成笑話那個時間到了請尊重主席謝謝部長請回書長請回謝謝鄭麗文委員的質詢再來我們請陳秀寶委員陳秀寶委員質詢完後我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":7678.564,"end":7682.687,"text":"不久之前教育產業公會表示有發現校園公共意外責任險的投保金額有縮水而且意外發生後又因為校方不願承認校園設施或管理有瑕疵"},{"start":7705.365,"end":7721.912,"text":"導致保險公司他不願意理賠他會用一個理由說非學校設施設置管理欠缺這個部分不是他們承保的範圍而導致說如果失聲他有意外的發生是沒有辦法得到保險公司的理賠部長這個部分你們有沒有掌握到這樣的狀況"},{"start":7724.219,"end":7752.486,"text":"跟委員報告那確實目前我們跟國教署每年都有編列這樣的一個經費去做有關學校公共意外責任選的這樣的一個投保的事項那對於這一方面的相關的內容因為他們所講的個別的這個一定要個案去了解啦因為它本來就是屬於在公共保險在學校本來每個意外發生都是個案啊"},{"start":7753.887,"end":7762.396,"text":"所以我說他講的那個事情我們應該去做了解以目前國教署在年度的檢討會議裡面也會將他們所想的這個相關的內容能夠納進來做這些情形﹖所以部長您是有了解到這個狀況就是有請他們把這方面因為他們"},{"start":7774.048,"end":7794.314,"text":"教育部這邊鄉部長您說的每年都有編列這個保險的這個預算來協助學校來投保這個公共意外責任險那就是為了讓我們學校的師生他有保障嘛萬一有什麼意外發生的時候但實際上發生校園意外呢在保險上他不是認定存款那也會有他就是有這樣子的理由啊"},{"start":7794.754,"end":7818.432,"text":"就擺明了就說這個不在我們城堡的範圍因為你校方竟然不承認是你們疏失但是以校方來講校方他承認的說是設置設施有問題或是管理不當的話其實他們還會面臨到公務人員懲戒的這個部分所以有時候會因為說而是校方保護自己他沒有辦法去承認說是我們校方有疏失那保險公司又因為這樣的理由不理賠那你其實你這個教育部的這個美意就是說"},{"start":7818.792,"end":7838.375,"text":"委員 這個部分 剛才我講個案的意思也是要特別提醒這一段如果學校方因為擔心有行政責任、環境設施造成危害而不願意去面對而影響到師生可能受影響的這部分"},{"start":7838.755,"end":7865.563,"text":"我想這部分我們一定要跟尤其是跟地方政府必須要嚴正的去做這方面的督導因為到底是什麼造成傷害這個其實是一個客觀的事實不應該只是說哪一方為了擔心有責任的問題結果讓受傷的這一端受到沒辦法去做這個就完全撕掉當時保險的目標目的了所以我想我為什麼會跟委員剛才報告的那個"},{"start":7866.403,"end":7889.966,"text":"情形是要個案的去做這方面我們會去加強督導部長這樣子從您的回答應該就是說你們大概也了解這個狀況那這個部分我希望說教育部你們這邊去了解一下這兩年來關於校園意外的發生跟理賠的這個狀況怎麼樣你們去評估是不是有必要去調整你們相關的規定那你兩個月之內呢"},{"start":7891.727,"end":7916.751,"text":"我想這部分委員我們再來盤一下也會收集一下他們因為有時候像一些團體他們在第一線會看到一些現象我想這一部分我們也會希望把意見能夠收集過來因為保險就是希望維護師生萬一受到這些意外那你投保了之後用這種理由來拒絕理賠的話那其實師生的權益沒有得到保障了了解好 謝謝部長那我請署長 第一署長署長"},{"start":7922.113,"end":7931.581,"text":"委員好署長今天其實每一個委員都在關心這件事情就是我們這個電競協會的這個爭議在頒獎典禮發生了這樣的爭議因為這個頒獎的嘉賓竟然是一位一審已經是判四年兩個月二審都維持原判的這樣子的一個很嚴重的這樣子刑責的一個人士來擔任頒獎的貴賓"},{"start":7944.753,"end":7949.054,"text":"那體育署當然你們在事後有發出聲明表示說這個活動你們沒有提供補助也沒有參與活動的規劃也沒有同意要擔任這個指導單位那簡單來說體育署就是認為說你們沒有補助這個活動也沒有參與這個活動的規劃所以這個事件跟體育署沒有關係但是其實這邊要提醒體育署電競協會呢官網上就有明確標示說電競協會是體育署唯一指定電競事務委辦的單位"},{"start":7971.641,"end":7986.868,"text":"所以體育署你們本來就對這些運動學會有監督之責啦那每年體育署你們也編列預算來補助這些協會所以在協會的相關評鑑你們也是很有機會來進行相關的監督那你們在聲明中有提到說會加強輔導該協會那你們目前預計有什麼措施?"},{"start":7991.923,"end":8004.929,"text":"報告委員基本上我們在每年都會有所謂的協會的訪評那針對這次發展事件我們列入協會訪評的一個依據之一那會對他明年的年度工作計畫的一個補助款相信會有一些一定會有很大的影響"},{"start":8005.991,"end":8022.798,"text":"體育署是我們教育部的下級機關對於毒品零容忍這個態度是不容質疑我相信說教育部、體育署對這樣的態度你們是很堅決的就是我們對毒品是零容忍的但是是不是有就是藉由這個機會我們來檢討我們來制定一個準則規範一下相關活動出席人員尤其是擔任頒獎的人員不能有爭議的狀況那選手好不容易他去努力他得到這樣優勝的殊榮"},{"start":8034.802,"end":8054.238,"text":"應該有一個合適的身份合適的人來頒獎是尊重選手的表現那相關機制的檢討之後我們是不是研議定義一個準則規範這個部分署長你怎麼回答這部分報告委員我們會我們贊同委員的說法這部分我回去會進行這件事情制定相關的準則供協會來參考"},{"start":8055.983,"end":8073.109,"text":"制定相關的準則那如果說萬一有這樣子不好的就是對整個我們的政策相背離的這樣的事件發生的時候我們有什麼規範可以來除了監督他之外我們還有什麼規範可以來約束他們"},{"start":8073.689,"end":8085.444,"text":"我們最主要的部分大概是補助款的部分的一個遞減當然還有一個更重要的是我們可以將它暫時的停權這部分我想這部分我們都會進行來演繹因為對於這樣子一個很相當離譜的錯誤我們其實應該給他們嚴厲的譴責跟嚴厲的懲罰"},{"start":8092.833,"end":8102.804,"text":"有時候不管他是用一個怎樣的效果在呈現但是其實都這個是其實在挑戰你們體育署好那這個部分我請你們研議相關的規範那也要一個進度給本席辦公室接下來呢"},{"start":8108.851,"end":8124.532,"text":"關於今天我們要審的這個部分就是在體育黃牛票的這個部分大家都非常的關心上週日的這個亞錦賽開打就是一萬七千人入場這個大家是非常的踴躍非常的"},{"start":8125.453,"end":8140.641,"text":"就對這個賽事大家是非常的開心很期待那中韓大戰的這個票瞬間秒殺內產生了這個很多黃牛亂象球迷也表示說他真的很想看比賽所以他不得不花了兩倍的價格去買黃牛票"},{"start":8142.822,"end":8162.301,"text":"那之前吳浩步其實針對這個藝文票的黃牛票的部分除了制定法則之外也跟票卷業者來研議票卷實名制當然說以我們現在如果說要落實實名制的這個部分也許在我們賽場的部分可能還有一些技術性帶突破那除了這些"},{"start":8163.752,"end":8180.94,"text":"法則之外我們體育署跟賽事業者我們有沒有實際去討論說如何來剛剛講了說這個實名制他的技術上如何克服你們有去討論嗎?報告委員基本上這件事情針對實名制的部分我們其實有找相關業者來談"},{"start":8182.2,"end":8202.538,"text":"目前我們會去輔導業者、鼓勵他們去針對售票系統、它本身的科技以及在兼顧隱私的情況之下能夠鼓勵他們採取在這種台韓大戰這種重要的場次能夠盡可能採取實名制然後也讓球迷能夠盡可能的快速的進場那這邊我們正在演繹當中"},{"start":8204.966,"end":8230.937,"text":"在我們黃牛票的法則如果訂定之後呢體育署要如何落實也是必須要事先來規劃那文化部這邊有個做法他是在查緝這個黃牛票的部分呢他是有跟警政署來跨部會合作一個專案打牛小組那在文化部的網站他有設置一個檢舉黃牛票區讓民眾來檢舉如果認定的是相符合的要件會分案到地方政府來進行後續的裁罰那"},{"start":8233.058,"end":8255.615,"text":"體育署在這個黃牛票查緝執行的部分你們會不會參考文化部的做法為了減少這個行政資源的浪費是不是請體育署也可以一起加入這個專案導流小組這個部分你們有沒有什麼新的規劃還是說也可以參考這樣做我們基本上會參考文化部的做法來一起做這件事情當然也會一起攜手跟各縣市政府的檢警調一起來攜手看能不能夠在落實這個執行的部分"},{"start":8257.657,"end":8262.099,"text":"因為其實黃牛票這麼猖獗讓真正想要參與賽事想要參加的人、民眾他搶不到票然後必須花費更多的資源去想辦法得到這張票對真正要參與的民眾是非常不公平的所以說不管在藝文表演不管是我們賽事我們都希望說黃牛票這個法則我們訂了之後是可以落實的"},{"start":8282.509,"end":8294.637,"text":"那這個部分呢那署長您這邊也說會參考文化部的這個做法我們也希望說把這個修這個法能夠修得更完善能夠保護民眾的權益主席再給我一分鐘那接下來要請教就是說我們2024的八年奧運即將到來"},{"start":8298.479,"end":8308.754,"text":"提署你們在今年四月的時候也到巴黎有實地的考察來評估相關的這個後勤工作的規劃那這個部分呢我想了解說誰對的這些人員裡面誰對運動心理師你們這次有沒有配置"},{"start":8314.662,"end":8333.621,"text":"我們這次會有運動心理諮商相關的人員會做配置那如果說代表團進不去我們也會在中繼站的部分列入工作團那這部分我們會盡可能讓有跟我們取得奧運資格選手相關的這些心理諮商人員都能夠過去巴黎"},{"start":8335.623,"end":8363.59,"text":"因為在這樣高壓的環境之下我們選手可能隨時處在比較緊繃的情緒所以就是需要這些隨隊的人員來協助我們的選手那另外我要提醒體育署因為國際的情勢一直在變動那在巴黎奧運開幕的時候有恐攻的狀況發生那到明年奧運期間有沒有這樣的情勢其實這個部分也請我們體育署要注意說要制定相關緊急應變措施萬一有什麼緊急的事"},{"start":8364.95,"end":8373.42,"text":"這個事件發生的時候讓我們的選手可以再根據這些我們教導他們這個部分來做一個安全的回覆這個部分來請你們注意時間到了後續再跟陳秀寶委員回覆好謝謝部長署長那謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢我們休息五分鐘五分鐘後繼續開會"},{"start":8697.366,"end":8708.324,"text":"好,我們繼續開會。現在請陳培余委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。那有請部長。好,有請潘部長。"},{"start":8714.189,"end":8730.944,"text":"部長早安我想要先幫部長說一下部長跟署長辛苦了關於這兩天這個電競事件不過我們真的認真研究完資料我要幫你們說其實你們真的沒有補助然後也沒有一些剛剛這些問題不過而且我們也知道其實教育部跟體育署長期以來對於毒品"},{"start":8731.084,"end":8731.705,"text":"關於零容忍的部分"},{"start":8752.383,"end":8774.639,"text":"我們在想應該不會只有口號其實有非常多事情而且會透過個案像這兩天這個個案不斷表現出來然後也必須要讓教育部跟體育署做出回應按不下去等一下不好意思好那我想跟部長聊一下其實從我們從2月底補到現在大概10個多月我們發現了其實有很多像假球事件、兒虐事件、性騷事件"},{"start":8776.181,"end":8796.199,"text":"相關的事情的研究我們發現回到體育署的主管相關業務裡面相關的兒少事件我們發現有很多所謂大人的當事人他們其實就算在相關的懲處之後他們都還是有機會一再一再的回到體育跟教育的現場造成受害者的二次傷害甚至他們"},{"start":8796.96,"end":8797.14,"text":"二、審查 ﹗"},{"start":8815.103,"end":8844.25,"text":"在最左邊這張投影片在講假球事件是澎湖國小在今年五月邀請了打假球的張志佳到學校去進行上課跟指導那我相信體育署相關的說法其實我們也討論過這不是專任教練而且他可能也不會考教練證可是我想部長跟署長您來自基層教育系統您一定了解像這樣子打假球的教練他進到學校裡面他帶給孩子什麼樣的潛在教育的影響這個部分我相信部長您一定認同我們共同有的擔心"},{"start":8844.89,"end":8867.543,"text":"第二個中間這個兒虐事件是在之前我們跟苗博雅議員的辦公室共同追蹤那教育委員會陳秀寶委員也有質詢過相關的案子這個當事人在去年10月被揭露對小球員施虐那相關的調查事件之後呢也被兒少法裁罰都沒有問題相關的法規看起來都補上了可是在體育署補助的相關賽事裡面這個人依然大搖大擺的以顧問的名義繼續現身"},{"start":8871.186,"end":8889.468,"text":"最右邊信騷事件我相信信騷事件我想部長跟署長都非常熟悉我們就不再多說所以這麼多這麼多我要講的是現行的法規我們好像看似已經做了一些處理可是我們可不可以更積極的做一些事情呢例如說不要讓這些人說他們是人民團體就沒事了或者是說像這一次體育署這個"},{"start":8890.75,"end":8902.964,"text":"電競事件我必須說我覺得對體育署來說可能是一個烏龍狀況所以可不可以我們今天花一些時間討論零容忍不要只是口號而是我們可不可以有一個更積極的作為我想要提出一個建議下一張謝謝"},{"start":8906.775,"end":8928.355,"text":"我們可不可以建立一個所謂不受歡迎對象名單,讓這些名單裡面的人,一旦他們在以後教育部所屬的機關學校、教育部相關補助對象、教育部補助的相關輔導團體,他們可以有所依循。其實教育部之前在2009年的假求事件,就已經建立了一個教育部黑名單。"},{"start":8929.156,"end":8932.499,"text":"所以其實有相關潛力可循那我必須要說這個所謂不受歡迎的名單我們想像的是不影響他的工作權我們也不影響他個人各式各樣的職業來發展可是就像這一次這個事情一樣"},{"start":8945.09,"end":8949.215,"text":"如果我們有這個名單可以依循讓相關的機關學校補助對象輔導團體他們可以在第一時間知道說教育部原來有一個這樣的名單所以大家在邀請專家學者邀請評審的時候是不是就不要把這些大人排入每一次合作的對象裡頭讓"},{"start":8963.05,"end":8978.024,"text":"學校機關輔導團體補助對象可以有所依據不要讓大家過去再用所謂愛於人情這樣的事情來好像難以拒絕這樣子的可能性合作的可能性不知道說到這邊為止部長你有什麼想法有沒有可能性"},{"start":8978.804,"end":8997.308,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員這個提醒很重要但執行面這個我們確實也要確說一個原因我跟委員報告我們對於因為接觸兒童、學童的一些我們有一個界定那當然也有一個程序那個程序所指的就是"},{"start":8997.888,"end":9013.982,"text":"對,就是我剛說法規面,確實都已經完備了。對,對,因為那個法規面,我想我應該常常也知道,就是說事切的方式應該訂到哪個範圍。這個確實我們要...那我跟部長分享一個,我之前跟忠誠教育司開會,不是故意要講出來,我跟那個部裡面的一個部會開會,"},{"start":9014.983,"end":9032.525,"text":"那他們當時有提到要辦家庭教育的活動他們就說他們要請一個明星當那個活動的代言人我就不講那個明星是誰一個男的藝人當時他有非常良好的愛家爸爸愛家男人的形象結果呢那個教育部的司長就跟我說要找他來當那個活動的代言人偏偏那個活動是跟家庭教育有關"},{"start":9033.166,"end":9055.481,"text":"我一聽到那個名字我就問司長跟他的幕僚說你們要確定喔?確定要找這個人嗎?我問了三次為什麼我這麼問呢?因為當時那個人雖然愛家形象非常良好但是他過往在他的臉書上發言分享過他如何打他的小孩他的小孩因為玩具沒有燒好所以他就怎麼打他那當然怎麼打小孩這件事情我相信教育部或者是法務部對於家內靈體法這件事情大家都積極在推進可是當"},{"start":9057.162,"end":9078.281,"text":"教育部的活動要請這樣一個代言人的時候那我不會說是司長的問題我也不會說是教育部的疏漏而是我們每天都這麼忙我們不可能注意到每天哪些人又發生了什麼事情所以可不可以這個名單在合乎相關法規或是我們來討論相關的配套設置辦法讓我說的所有的機關學校、補助團體或者是各式各樣的活動計畫"},{"start":9079.162,"end":9085.666,"text":"他們在邀請當評審、當頒獎人、當教練、當講師當合作對象顧問的時候他們至少有所依據說暫時先避開尤其是如果他們拿的是跟教育部有關的補助那不要到時候出了事情又掛到教育部頭上所以我在說不影響他們的工作權也不影響他們的專業職涯發展讓相關的團體他們可以自己做出選擇、做出決定當然相關的配套辦法這個部分我們再討論因為我剛剛跟委員報告方向是我想是很"},{"start":9106.977,"end":9107.037,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9127.148,"end":9130.472,"text":"那我們是不是有機會我們辦公室再跟相關的部會再討論好不好那最後因為還有一點時間我想跟部長跟署長討論其實我們辦公室從二月開始我們追了非常多跟體育有關的兒少的題目那我要講一下其實這真的是來自於我長期對兒少題目的關懷"},{"start":9146.269,"end":9153.615,"text":"而且也不是只有針對教育部其實我到各個委員會去質詢全部也都是做跟兒少有關為什麼要做這些事情其實兩公約國內實行國內法實行之後其實我相信所謂的國際人權或者是兒童人權對非常多的行政機關來說都非常非常的陌生甚至要怎麼樣把那些法規變成是可實行的政策而不只是理念跟價值觀的宣導"},{"start":9170.249,"end":9181.717,"text":"我認為其實真的對教育部還有其他部會都是困難的我必須說但是在這個困難的路上我真心想要說的是這些事情他真的必須要持續推進就像一直以來跟部長還有署長討論的不管是因為體育班的政策或是社區運動團隊"},{"start":9185.7,"end":9207.438,"text":"或者是我們看到體育暴力不當霸凌體罰的事情一再的發生我們都想要誠心的拜託部長跟署長在後續的非常多政策推動上一定要始終相信站在兒少為主的出發角度這件事情是重要而且必要的在很多政策上我們要幫孩子們想得更多因為對於很多家長、大人、教練、老師來說其實我剛剛說兩公約也是陌生的"},{"start":9210.6,"end":9231.653,"text":"那就真的必須要靠中央主管機關在法規上、在政策推動面上、在計畫實行上都把這些事情當成是第一、第一、第一的優先尤其是我們想要推動大家願意生、願意養那這件事情它回到國教系統它就是真的希望教育部可以持續努力的這個部分那這個部分比較是我對部長真心跟對署長的拜託"},{"start":9232.453,"end":9251.009,"text":"謝謝委員,我也完全認同,因為我想這些年在整個教育政策的推動,確實就是以學生為主體這個核心概念,那有些可能還做得不夠,我想委員這部分我們會繼續加油。好,我們就也一起加油,那因為只有一點點時間,我就分享到這邊,謝謝主席,謝謝部長、署長,謝謝。好,部長請回,署長請回,謝謝陳佩玉委員的質詢,再來我們請張綺路委員。"},{"start":9264.67,"end":9265.851,"text":"有請潘部長、鄭時中、鄭署長"},{"start":9315.313,"end":9321.778,"text":"那個...那個都是誰...誰在弄的?是他們會裡面自己的電腦嗎?什麼拔掉?他的以為是電話結果電腦直接死掉"},{"start":9345.009,"end":9349.306,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":9371.596,"end":9392.511,"text":"行政院函請審議第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":9404.888,"end":9424.525,"text":"二、審查),一、審查),一、審查),二、審查),一、審查),二、審查),一、審查),一、審查),"},{"start":9429.252,"end":9452.56,"text":"二、審查),一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":9455.186,"end":9465.475,"text":"現在有遇到那個電腦技術問題我們是不是先休息一下等到電腦處理完之後我們再恢復開會先休息一下部長先請回"},{"start":9661.223,"end":9664.889,"text":"好,我們那個技術解決了恢復開會,那現在我們請張綺路委員質詢,已經上台。請潘部長跟署長,謝謝。"},{"start":9673.394,"end":9696.772,"text":"委員好 部長好 還有署長部長我想今天大家都在關鍵這個問題我們還是也是在最後談一下就是說簡單講這件事我們不贅述了就是說現在這個他沒有經過這個指導單位同意就把你們列為那這個到底有沒有法律的問題啊就部長或署長"},{"start":9698.189,"end":9714.871,"text":"跟委員報告確實體育署有關的體育運動團體非常多他們也多次有提到給各個團體如果要列名應該要徵得主管機關的同流這個任何應該都是同樣的那它是後續會有法律的問題嗎?"},{"start":9717.374,"end":9730.566,"text":"這部分我也請署長這邊因為對這個事件一個當然是這個未經同意把名字機關名字掛上去的問題那另外一個就是這個事件因為體育署還是具有輔導監督相關"},{"start":9733.108,"end":9762.037,"text":"負責應用團體的責任,因為這方面應該說是輔導也希望他能夠就緒,對這個事件我想提署應該要跟要求電競協會這邊要提出整體事件的我們應該做一個深入的了解跟做後續的處置。好,其實這部長這樣聽起來就是說反正總是要有一方比較負比較多一點的責任,當然部長當然意思講說我們是監督嘛,"},{"start":9762.637,"end":9782.859,"text":"雖然事前都不知道啦,但這個事情確實對電競,而且對我們國家對於毒品的防治理想上是非常嚴肅的,所以我說這個是應該進一步的做這方面的了解。好,謝謝部長。當然最主要是說大家還是要弄清楚啦,如果是真的責任更多是在"},{"start":9784.363,"end":9803.984,"text":"主辦方那邊的話那當然我們這樣子也是我甚至覺得我們還是要有一個比較明確的啦真的這個整個班的後續大家會覺得好像在踢皮球的感覺往下就因為為什麼因為這件事本身是這樣講他過去2021的時候我們知道他是那個時候沒有掛"},{"start":9805.282,"end":9823.617,"text":"二二開始掛今年掛那現在這個問題就是這樣子它已經算是他們協會的一個常態性活動了而且是從二二二一、二二才開始有這件事之前反而沒有那再往下當然這個東西就是坊間也有人質疑說我們是有補這個協會這些錢嗎"},{"start":9826.019,"end":9847.632,"text":"那尤其是說從22年開始多了這個30萬大家就有點合理在想說是不是多了30萬就是讓他做這個協會當然我知道啦這個也很難這樣講因為反正我們預算是有增加但是也不是說這個增加的預算就是鐵定是幫他辦這場活動所以現在這個問題就是這樣子啊就是說大家可以都有一點切割的理由啦"},{"start":9848.452,"end":9873.459,"text":"那因為我們也可以這樣講教育部體育署也可以說我們之前有補這個電競協會那但電競協會他到底在做什麼這我們也所以說實話我們是有點尷尬的立場就是我們不是沒有補助他你看我們每年也編了這個這麼多錢200多萬290萬以上在協助他那但是到底他拿了這個錢在做哪些事情這個再直接往下"},{"start":9874.597,"end":9894.814,"text":"這個就是就變成是說我們這工作計畫到底我們是指導單位那他們的工作計畫是不是他們又要怎麼分得很細因為我坦白講預算在他們手上了他們會不會流用我們其實也不見得是完全這麼清晰啦所以哪些活動變成我們屬於是指導的"},{"start":9895.535,"end":9914.347,"text":"哪些我們不用因為按照我們這個辦法其實我們也有寫嘛如果是有這個這些事的齁如果在工作計畫內的我們就會是指導單位囉那所以這個東西就是說這個切分齁因為坦白說啦國人也不見得或者民間也不見得會搞那麼懂啦民間只有一個感覺就是說"},{"start":9915.248,"end":9935.481,"text":"教育部是有拿錢補助協會的那協會辦了一些事情那協會所辦的那是不是我們要蓋鍋承受所有協會的事情這我們也所以我就覺得說今天既然這個問題已經出來了我們還是這樣講就未來制度面到底怎麼樣會比較更沒有問題部長怎麼看呢或署長"},{"start":9937.432,"end":9964.338,"text":"跟委員報告那個細節也許我比較請署長跟委員報告因為真的比較難去處理到單項但是跟委員報告因為我們補助協會的這部分尤其是特定運動體育這個就是跟亞奧運對接的項目基本上的目標就是選手跟選手的培訓跟比賽比賽比如像委員們都會關心這個選手去異地比賽或現在要爭取奧運門牌門票的這個"},{"start":9966.838,"end":9967.278,"text":"二、審查),一、審查゚✧"},{"start":9986.587,"end":10000.992,"text":"就是部長當然我們在乎的還是說這個後續以後的標準不然還是是不是署長您也可以說明就這個case之後您覺得署裡面以後再掛這個指導單位它那個切分要怎麼樣才精準請署長跟您報告"},{"start":10003.19,"end":10011.415,"text":"保委員過去體育署一再的行文宣導各個協會如果要讓體育署來掛名指導單一定要來文那我們內部其實有一個審理原則啦比如說本署有參與規劃辦理的活動啦或者是它競賽規程活動計畫有送過來備查啦有公益性質啦或是公部門行政法人所舉辦的這部分我們才會同意那事實上它在2022年的時候它也有來文"},{"start":10029.386,"end":10045.451,"text":"來希望我們掛指導單位但是我們婉拒了所以我們從2022開始其實就沒有去擔任他們的指導單位好 謝謝署長師講我覺得這件事就是第一個就是說我們把它落實剛才您講的這個準則沒有問題第二個就是說真的後續要查查"},{"start":10046.371,"end":10065.922,"text":"像他這種case竟然出來了我覺得當然我們還是可以把它講清楚對不對我們其實已經拒絕你這樣子了結果你還是這樣子所以我才說他前頭是有他的法律問題的啦好不好所以我覺得說既然這已經發生了也是要向社會澄清清楚啦謝謝署長那部長再麻煩您後面還有幾個小問題啦"},{"start":10068.544,"end":10078.675,"text":"部長 這個是 這跟署長沒關的啦這部長 這我們竟然有這種當然這我們也沒辦法真的直接管你看這都境外很多你看這有個亞洲最大包養網站"},{"start":10080.559,"end":10104.255,"text":"而且這些東西你看這個他說接受保養的女性每月獲得六萬多的零用金而且這裡面有四成可能都是女學生講難聽一點我們的學生其實心智也就是他也年輕甚至都是未成年這非常的偏差這有沒有辦法我們有沒有辦法在學校的教育上讓大家尤其我們的學生不然這個真的搞不好很嚴重以後部長"},{"start":10107.016,"end":10122.66,"text":"對這個議題我們有進一步的去了解只是說這個部分如果我們說涉及對像談到的對女性的這方面確實本身都可能會有觸犯"},{"start":10123.92,"end":10151.976,"text":"當然法律的相關的問題啦這個如果我進一步可能我們需要跟警政這個有沒有辦法可能要跟警政單位我們了解一下司法部啊、警政單位啊我覺得才能知道因為它是一個訊息我比較教育單位比較不容易說很深入去了解它的情況但是這裡面有提到說它可能會涉及女學生的這部分我想我們可能跨部會了解一下其實現在就是說沒有錯啦ICT的這個引進對於我們這個現代教育是很重要可是現在也同樣的這個"},{"start":10153.097,"end":10153.357,"text":"二、審查 »:一、審查),"},{"start":10172.364,"end":10193.792,"text":"原頭啦好不好這個麻煩部長最後還有一個小問題喔部長這就是最後30秒部長這個臺大校長昨天來講這件事喔您覺得呢我們是利益良善加薪做了這些事情可是是不是能夠更彈性一點呢因為坦白說其實說實話這就是我一路一直在主張的啦其實認真講陳校長講這件事"},{"start":10195.993,"end":10208.499,"text":"他終極結案是什麼?就是我們像這種公立學校應該公法人化呀,他講的這些問題都解決了啊。所以這個是不是,既然陳校長已經提出這樣的一個說法了,部長怎麼看呢?"},{"start":10209.178,"end":10232.511,"text":"我跟委員報告齁當然陳校長談的細節我沒那麼但是如果就提到提供比如待遇的這方面為什麼我們會積極去處理除了一致性的提高學術研究費15%加薪以外為什麼會有一個彈性的制度那彈性的制度即使教育部都是相對應的陳校長意思就是沒那麼彈性"},{"start":10236.514,"end":10256.332,"text":"教育部其實有好多的制度是幫他解開但學校如果迫於壓力而希望起頭那我覺得這個做法就有點讓這個可能性變成好像那就是最好教育部統一規定統一規定又說又是一個大鍋飯所以這個裡面有一點點矛盾我說制度是彈性的"},{"start":10257.433,"end":10273.391,"text":"資源也是給予的那至於聘任的這部分教育部也這次也謝謝之前跟人事總署我們也溝通即使大學的名額已經也有相當的可開放但是大學必須要附有財務規劃你不能說我這一任的校長我拼命的聘人"},{"start":10273.991,"end":10285.185,"text":"最後學校人事會負擔你又說我負擔不起我又要中央補助這個才是把這樣的彈性加上他自己能夠去做規劃我覺得這個才是比較正確應該是這樣我覺得最後一句就是說當然陳校長台大陳校長這也已經他是點到核心的問題我覺得這個問題的本質我們最終"},{"start":10292.433,"end":10320.061,"text":"還是我覺得還是要思考清楚當然我是我來自高教界我自己是認為真的這個是需要的是結構性的轉變不然的話其實是這些問題是很難解的我也同意部長你今天你定規則也是有問題不定也是有問題所以最終我還是加強我自己的一個呼籲一個倡議其實公立學校公立的大學其實真的往公法人的方向去走邁進我覺得這可能是最終極的一個解方謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":10321.981,"end":10323.962,"text":"謝謝張綺路委員、謝謝部長接下來有請范雲委員謝謝主席有請潘部長跟鄭署長謝謝"},{"start":10342.195,"end":10360.26,"text":"部長早安還有署長早安今天就兩題一個是跟黃金計劃有關另外一個就是我們今天的主題巴黎奧運相關性別平等的準備這個怎麼下一頁沒有幫我下一頁這個好像又當機了"},{"start":10362.72,"end":10374.373,"text":"沒關係,我用口頭問好了,避免那個時間。黃金計畫我想是我們一個非常重要的計畫,因為我們投入了非常多的資源,也跟我們備戰奧運相當有關。那大家會很關心說是誰來決定誰能夠獲得黃金計畫的支持。"},{"start":10382.603,"end":10395.595,"text":"因為我們從107年到110年就編列了24億那他是我們政府一個非常重要的體育資源重點協助說誰是有奪牌潛力的精英選手可是當我們想了解這個黃金計畫下一頁的時候"},{"start":10399.618,"end":10423.869,"text":"就發現說他的這個決定機制蠻神秘的就是他有一個競強會然後就是總副召集就是國訓中心的正副執行長那其委員呢就是國訓中心執行長聘任所以看起來國訓中心執行長就是幾乎可以決定那他怎麼樣的委員那我並不是說他的決定不好只是說這個權力是蠻集中的"},{"start":10426.71,"end":10435.18,"text":"可是我們發現我們進一步想要下一頁想去了解說可不可以知道一下過去這個競強會的委員是怎麼樣的名單就發現這個名單沒有辦法索取後來索取到的時候是遮蔽第一次我們索取的時候遮蔽全名"},{"start":10444.952,"end":10459.849,"text":"後來第二次索取的時候是沒有遮蔽還是是密件所以我想這個是已經形同如國防一樣的這麼的神秘的資料嗎那後來我們再繼續想了解因為主要是我覺得這個一般"},{"start":10460.389,"end":10480.357,"text":"我對於這種審查委員就是說決定前不公開是可以理解的可是已經決定名單之後一段時間好像應該公開可是體育署是拿法務部的資訊告訴我們說這是內部意見資訊公開將有礙於最後決定之做成可是決定已經做成嘛那如果是之前的"},{"start":10481.077,"end":10495.262,"text":"作成決定後,如果內部擬搞公開,仍有可能造成相同困擾,不予提供或公開。我覺得這個是有一點點奇怪,因為如果你們的遴選原則是很公平的,"},{"start":10495.862,"end":10519.23,"text":"委員本來就應該要受到檢視我們不管是什麼獎項或者是我們國科會的審查那現在因為政府資訊公開這個並不是內部您搞或是說誰寫談餐給您這樣的事情而且依照我們政府資訊公開法的第三條對公益有必要者得公開或提供之我想"},{"start":10519.75,"end":10543.558,"text":"不管是任何一個協會或是任何一個選手想了解的話這都是公共利益吧立法委員要質詢的話也是公共利益所以我今天是針對下一頁就是我覺得公開透明可問責應該是我們不能退讓的核心價值政府尤其是體育署這麼重要的計劃"},{"start":10544.378,"end":10555.967,"text":"我覺得應該要檢討一下我們這個委員領選的方式跟選手選拔的標準怎麼樣讓各界覺得是很有公信力當然我這邊是寫立即公開但我想你們應該評估一下那我給大家參考的是國科會"},{"start":10560.751,"end":10588.862,"text":"他的網站上就寫得很清楚為營造公平公正的審查環境將公開出副審委員名單接受外界檢視名單於每年申付結束後12月底前公開因為我們國科會也是決定上千萬甚至更高的經費預算每年一定會有爭議嘛你覺得他很優秀那他覺得他沒申請到那除了有一個副審、申付機制之外委員的審查名單會整體公開"},{"start":10590.643,"end":10604.931,"text":"不會公開說你的就是誰審的可是總是有一個一群人在做決定那這個部分我覺得對於爭議的敏評跟體育署跟政府的公信力很重要那不知道能不能三個月內這兩點都給我一個檢討的報告呢"},{"start":10609.234,"end":10630.428,"text":"謝謝昭緯我想事後公開相關委員的名單這方面我覺得我會請這個國性中心應該要來嚴處這樣的方向因為確實我們很多事前比較不宜啦因為事前可能會造成一些不必要的因為事前怕被去影響啦、關說啦反而影響他的客觀專業性"},{"start":10633.13,"end":10649.08,"text":"但是事後公開這也是一個必要讓社會了解我們這個這樣的所營聘到的這些委員所以我想這個方向謝謝召委我們會往您的提的方向來做處理好那你們以後邀請的時候也可以事先聲明你們會在什麼時候"},{"start":10649.48,"end":10650.141,"text":"公平、公正、公開"},{"start":10665.597,"end":10691.438,"text":"謝謝部長承諾,那就給你們三個月的時間再來關於巴黎奧運,我們都知道他這次宣誓是性別平等由始以來他要做到男女選手數量相同當然我們台灣其實在選手的部分已經相同了女性選手還更高,我們東京奧運的時候男子33名女子35名落實性別平等值得肯定"},{"start":10692.259,"end":10719.064,"text":"可是就是說除了選手平等之外我比較關心的是那他們有沒有平等參與決策那今天剛剛部長的報告裡面有逐步做到可是我是覺得還是可以更積極一點那國際奧林匹克委員會已經達到委員本身的性別平等了你可以看到就是我們這邊在網站上他找到的資料2013年的時候他們女生其實只有20%可是2022年"},{"start":10722.185,"end":10734.711,"text":"他已經做到男女各辦五百四十六位委員中一比一我想他三十一個委員會中女性也超過四成這個就是創下紀錄再下一頁我們看一下臺灣"},{"start":10738.152,"end":10767.592,"text":"二零一三年的時候我們跟他很接近啦他八比二我們九比一可是人家這個九年十年內進步這麼快我們二零二二年奧委會的組成還是八比二停留在就是說落後十年啦我想那個部長中華奧會是我們這麼重要一個體育的協會我們要參加前進巴黎奧運不能女性選手一比一可是決策者完全沒有性別平等啊那這部分"},{"start":10768.652,"end":10785.761,"text":"還有包含在下一頁單項協會問題也很大女性比例也非常的低禮監事還高一點禮監事的話不到五分之一女選手超過男生協會理事都是男性這個"},{"start":10787.202,"end":10793.266,"text":"我覺得這個不大對等吧我相信優秀的女性願意擔任理事的應該很多那這個有很多網絡他就是說各方面的問題那是不是請下一頁就是我們體育署也請部長監督"},{"start":10805.595,"end":10823.681,"text":"是不是趕快來研究一下如何支持單向協會理事性別是不是能夠保障入法那如何保障我們體育場域裡面已經有實力甚至超過的男性我們女性能夠在決策權當中也能夠達到一個奧會的水平呢?"},{"start":10824.901,"end":10852.438,"text":"是 謝謝昭緯我想在今天的報告裡面大概也跟昭緯還有委員這邊有報告目前我們的做法啦包含體育署這邊因為在這個單項協會或奧會他們委員是有他的任期制那在這個過程體育署有特別在含資給我們相關的單項協會包含也跟中澳奧會這邊啦因為這也是一個國際的"},{"start":10853.419,"end":10859.625,"text":"局勢我們要去前進巴黎奧運決策者都是男性不搭配吧選手女性還更多我跟昭緯報告一下像剛才講那個8比2其實他有再提升一點我有看過大概他明知道三成多了但是這個"},{"start":10869.033,"end":10873.254,"text":"我們比較希望因為這個體育團體很特別他們也都會對接到國際的不管中華奧會對國際奧會各單項對國際他們其實這個規範我相信臺灣也應該會朝這個方向來做我們會盡最大的力量來輔導跟協助單項我們總要跟國際對接但過程"},{"start":10894.099,"end":10903.962,"text":"因為有任期,也有他一些,也許馬上入法這件事情。好,那不然你們評估一下是不是能夠入法好不好?因為單項協會可能需要入法我們才能處理。是,我想那一些可能真的要,我們在因為上一次之後,上一個應該說選舉之後,那體育署這邊確實有給單項協會有把這個,他們自己也都知道國際也往這個方向在走啦。"},{"start":10919.726,"end":10923.611,"text":"只是那個任期間我們來加速輔導跟他們做一些討論女選手已經超過男選手的比例了對不對所以這邊應該要加速因為他們遊夏場的改革好像出現狀況這個部分我跟昭緯報告就我們對女選手、女的團隊"},{"start":10935.985,"end":10936.566,"text":"請部長監督體育署,評估能不能修法。"},{"start":10966.065,"end":10966.745,"text":"有請部長跟署長"},{"start":10992.29,"end":11001.975,"text":"爾文好大家早安只有短短的八分鐘有好幾個問題想要來就教於兩位好我就進入我的主題下一頁"},{"start":11003.464,"end":11024.618,"text":"其實我看待這個電競協會的這件事情我一開始真的替教育部抱屈也覺得你們是受害者被拖下水但是越探究這個事件的本質我越覺得教育部不能只是消極性的澄清應當要有更積極性的作為"},{"start":11026.019,"end":11041.252,"text":"我終整這整個事件有三個不良、三個不公以及三個我們要檢討的部分三大不良也就是協會在主辦這樣一個重要的頒獎典禮的規劃是不良的包括它冒用了我們體育署的主辦單位的名義 對不對"},{"start":11047.057,"end":11064.147,"text":"包括他刻意的去安排TOYS這樣一個爭議人物、毒販來頒獎給跟他的宿仇、宿敵捧神然後衍生了甚至我看來也真的是恐怕就是有製造聲量的不良意圖"},{"start":11065.154,"end":11083.733,"text":"所以第一個不良就是他在規劃設計這整個典禮本身的居心不良第二個班長典禮上沒想到這個副理事長陳柏壽再補一槍啊他在典禮上的發言我不曉得兩位有沒有聽到他說的部長顯然不清楚"},{"start":11085.075,"end":11104.574,"text":"這個陳柏壽副理事長稍後在上台做了一個總結他居然說電競生涯是個運動也是娛樂氣賽、霸賽、吵架、粉絲吵架、操粉或是主播去拔粉絲也都是有的所以沒關係沒關係大家理性看待就好"},{"start":11106.11,"end":11129.889,"text":"這就是補一槍啊一個副理事長是用這樣子的心態在看待一個重要的頒獎典禮看待一個國家扶植的重要的電競運動產業我覺得非常的居心不良第三個不良就是事後我們也看到協會的理事之一這個黃志仁他怒辭理事他說連評審會連半次會議都沒有開"},{"start":11133.072,"end":11146.377,"text":"所以這樣一個協會的運作它的治理是有問題的連理事都以怒辭理事的這樣子的抗議的作為來彰顯出這個協會的運作跟治理大有問題三大不良"},{"start":11147.639,"end":11167.842,"text":"然後三大不公當然對教育部不公平啊你們被冒用啦你們只能嗯就是道歉再道歉澄清再澄清啊對你們確實不公啊對於其他的電競團體或是選手不公平啊因為被貼上了一個標籤好像電競的恐就是跟販毒的走在一起"},{"start":11168.923,"end":11185.892,"text":"貼上了一個負面的不當觀感對這些選手不公平啊那對整個電競產業更是不公平我們使了多大的力去投入年年補助結果獲得這樣的下場三大不公好三大檢討"},{"start":11187.406,"end":11192.051,"text":"第一個,對不孝的單項協會依法裁罰,這我稍後再說。第二項,對於各單項協會的輔導要加強。剛剛這個怒辭禮事的人已經說了該開的會沒有開,他的運作就是有問題,沒有依章程、沒有依人民團體法來運作,就應當加強輔導。"},{"start":11208.286,"end":11235.362,"text":"第三個對於任何主辦協辦受補助的活動要建立一個指導準則這個事件可以帶給我們唯一一個正面的就是未來體育署針對任何一個有給過補助的協會或者是真的有可能是合作掛名的我們如果對於他的活動的舉辦的過程沒有更多的一個輔導跟管理的話可能都會有類似的事情好那我回到我的第一點看下一頁"},{"start":11237.427,"end":11256.415,"text":"國民體育法有工具的處罰協會的爭議行為國民體育法是有工具的從早上的質詢聽到現在部長也好署長也好一副都沒辦法一副都看看怎麼辦我們來督導輔導他們有工具可以用"},{"start":11257.575,"end":11285.305,"text":"這是我們上一屆很努力修法的國民體育法第43條特定體育團體有違反法令他有沒有違反法令有啊不當運作不當該開的會沒有開人民團體法他就違反啦如果有違反章程他也違反自己的章程啊甚至特定體育團體有妨礙公益情勢請問這件事情是不是就是嚴重的妨礙公益公共的利益"},{"start":11286.755,"end":11300.568,"text":"有這些情勢主管機關就是教育部體育署得以警告撤銷其決議停止其業務之全部或部分並限其令其改善"},{"start":11302.27,"end":11327.528,"text":"借其為改善或情節重大者得為下列之處理停止獎勵補助第二、撤免其職員這個副理事長有沒有不當在辦理這個活動的承辦人有沒有不當的居心第三個,限其整理這個協會第四項,移送人民團體法的主管機關去廢止許可最後一個最重,命令解散"},{"start":11328.843,"end":11354.611,"text":"我們有工具我認為這個事件是情節重大有不當居心還有不良的運作它違反了自己的章程違反了法令而且嚴重的來妨礙公益情勢孰可忍孰不可忍剛剛你們的回答只說我們未來在獎補助可能就來嚴格來審查甚至委員建議說是不是列為黑名單你們能做的政策工具只有這樣嗎"},{"start":11357.426,"end":11371.055,"text":"從這個事件的爬梳我真的認為這個協會去刻意的安排了這樣一個頒獎典禮他要去操作他的流量他要去製造話題結果弄巧成拙引發眾怒"},{"start":11375.049,"end":11387.216,"text":"部長工具在這裡您同不同意他嚴重的妨礙公益我跟委員報告因為這個事前我們真的確實不知道事前不知道OK我沒有苛責你一定要知道但發生了以後是我也請提出為什麼第一時間大家要釐清因為社會各界這個事情不釐清大家緩柔會誤成一團第二階段當然是對這個協會所辦的相關事項也要做一個深入的瞭解所用的法規本來就是國民體育法當時修法"},{"start":11403.985,"end":11414.533,"text":"所以部長我提點出來我認為調查之後我們如果來判讀他確實有不當的居心不當的操作刻意安排明知一個毒販他刻意讓他上台頒獎嚴重的妨礙公益情勢要給他們非常嚴重的處罰"},{"start":11421.511,"end":11449.43,"text":"這也才能夠殺雞儆猴解決我剛剛說的我們未來輔導了這麼多的團體我們沒有辦法把我們的手伸到每一個應該自主獨立運作的協會或團體但是你藉由一個事件一個深刻的檢討跟反省之後殺雞儆猴未來所有的協會在舉辦活動他們在處理任何的細節邀請代言人也好、頒獎人也好我相信都會更為慎重"},{"start":11451.411,"end":11466.96,"text":"工具在這裡,也就是我不接受早上你們軟趴趴的回應。沒有啦,我們把事情先聽清楚。好,那先釐清。因為從發生都是在深夜,昨天教育部第一時間就請提署釐清。那沒問題。我也請署長親自說明這件事情。好,我聽到了。第二,就是應該查辦裡面的事情嘛。好,很好。那謝謝部長聽到您非常強硬的回應喔。"},{"start":11474.588,"end":11502.299,"text":"我覺得你們是被拖下水當然教育部很無辜但是從無辜當中我們必須建立機制法律已經給你們一個很好的工具否則以後這件事情沒有從嚴來處置我們就繼續沒辦法下去好不好我提醒你們國民體育法43條社會都在看你們怎麼依法來辦理當然我同意要有一個調查的程序好下一頁我把握時間喔"},{"start":11504.161,"end":11532.284,"text":"我可能後面的題目講不完但我先提醒十七天後就要開運博會了對不對署長我們的運博會的大家都這麼的支持包括司堯在質詢台上一再的希望你們精進其實署長也非常用心喔私下來拜會司堯我們如何讓運博會一屆比一屆更好讓策展更多元豐富可是畢竟十七天後就要展開的運博會在他前十七天昨天才召開第一次的啟動記者會"},{"start":11534.385,"end":11547.737,"text":"委員會 非常可惜對應於文博會人家是四個月前就開始宣傳我相信體育是新興國力關心熱愛體育的族群"},{"start":11548.957,"end":11571.214,"text":"國人更多只有17天前用一個記者會而且是一個一般般的記者會我覺得非常的可惜甚至我們點進去了你們的網站行銷的內容就又回到這樣一個記者會的內容其他到底有哪些展覽今年的賣點在哪裡今年的多元性在哪裡沒有被看見下一頁"},{"start":11574.5,"end":11577.583,"text":"然後呢台灣運動產業博覽會的網頁只有3886個按讚文博會有36萬個"},{"start":11585.948,"end":11607.397,"text":"當然文博會啟動的比較久可是運博會我要再強調熱愛運動的青年族群最多他們對於社群的使用是最熱烈我們只有這樣的一個行銷成效跟推廣的力道是不夠的你們唯一發起的一個有趣的事情比較吸引大家關切就是票選體育金句"},{"start":11608.564,"end":11621.75,"text":"票選完了報告部長體育金句只有225個人去投票他得了第一名下一頁我今天質詢時間到了就以這個金句獻給大家就在這裡"},{"start":11623.574,"end":11639.092,"text":"終止今年的體運動金據獎人氣投票第一名雖然他只有225個人按讚但還是第一名挫折就像槓片槓片知道嗎運動健身的槓片你扛得起越多你就越強壯"},{"start":11640.666,"end":11659.609,"text":"我要用這一句今年的運動金句來回應我剛剛質詢的體育改革做了這麼久我也要說鄭署長是我看到從以前到現在最勇於認識、最積極、最有開放性的署長我給您很多的肯定包括我們的部長更"},{"start":11660.49,"end":11686.21,"text":"沒有話說對於各項的教育改革非常非常的投入但是挫折就像槓片我們必須扛得更多我們才會更強壯希望剛剛的那個事件讓我們有更大的力道去處置它就可以為未來的社會從一個負面事件我們得到正向的教訓跟正向的體制的改革好嗎我們繼續加油辛苦兩位謝謝好謝謝文謝謝"},{"start":11688.732,"end":11693.175,"text":"好,部長、署長請回,謝謝吳思耀委員的質詢再來我們請李桂民委員好,謝謝主席,主席我們麻煩請部長跟體育署署長好,潘部長還有鄭署長委員好"},{"start":11707.225,"end":11731.098,"text":"兩位好,兩位知道就是電競奧運的部分呢現在在國際奧運主席宣布說計畫要舉辦這個電競大會兩位知道嘛,對不對?那知道了這個電競的這個可能會進奧運知道大概是什麼時候會舉辦嗎?最快有評估過嗎?還是沒有?我請署長跟你們報告一下"},{"start":11732.581,"end":11740.233,"text":"幫委員這部分在電競這個什麼時候就好了目前國際奧會還沒有一個明確的時程所以你們沒有評估"},{"start":11741.462,"end":11761.873,"text":"沒有評估還是有目前因為連國際奧會跟亞洲奧會他們的路線都不一樣簡單來講就是沒有評估好那既然沒有評估呢也難怪今天早上對於媒體關於這個電競大賞染毒的這個爭議的情況之下然後這個部長的回應是這樣子啦部長很坦白的講"},{"start":11762.873,"end":11780.906,"text":"以今天早上你對於媒體的回應也就是說發生有這樣的一個事情你剛剛的我聽到你講是說第一個你不知情嘛對不對你剛剛是這樣講然後第二個呢你回答的是講說噢好你會把他的這個預算呢將來就不給他但是你曾經給過他這個300萬的這個這個部分的獎勵嗎那個不是獎勵那是選手培訓跟比賽的錢"},{"start":11790.926,"end":11797.471,"text":"對,但是你曾經給過他嘛,是不是?因為每一年都有選手要參加那既然是每一年你都有選手我並沒有反對這個因為我剛剛前面為什麼講說這個奧運會有這個項目就表示說理論上來講你體育署也好、教育部也好都應該重視都應該要重視嘛可是你重視的一個你對於今天有爭議的這個事件你的處理的方式平安講部長我是很不敢恭維啦"},{"start":11819.548,"end":11847.387,"text":"第一個你就講說我把這個預算呢我要把它剷除我沒有說這句話我沒有說那你解決的方案不是將來預算不給他嗎我從頭到尾沒有說因為那個是要培養選手跟比賽的費用那你剛才其他的委員在問的時候你也沒有釐清啊你對他的這個將來的這個懲處的方式是怎麼樣呢應該要先我們進入做調查啦因為這個事情發生的時間很短"},{"start":11848.027,"end":11862.073,"text":"那在第一時間因為外界都認為以為這是體育署指導的活動那這個東西不釐清這個我想是第一個先你的這個東西是第二個我就是反對你用甩鍋的方式那這不是甩鍋這是事實怎麼叫甩鍋他是甩鍋這是事實"},{"start":11866.235,"end":11884.631,"text":"你不需要動怒我好好跟你講話你不需要動怒好不好我告訴你什麼是事實你2022年的時候電競大賞的部分呢體育署是指導單位那這個也是他冒名嗎他也是冒名嗎好體育署長你對著麥克風講2022年的這個冒名的事件你到現在2023年你不知道"},{"start":11891.337,"end":11896.038,"text":"你當指導單位 你有沒有同意你婉拒了他把你擺上去你不處理你不處理這個是你的態度對不對你當時你既然婉拒你為什麼2022年的時候他擺上去的時候你不處理到現在已經一年多的時間你還理直氣壯"},{"start":11914.443,"end":11930.336,"text":"然後你現在2023年當他把你擺上去的時候你既然已經知道前面的你為什麼置之不理等到事情發生之後你用讓他下架的方式這個是解決的方法嗎你還理直氣壯還敢大小聲我好好的跟你講我問你的問題是民眾想知道的我請問你啊體育署你要大小聲的話我請問你啊我們的不管是直棒直籃的射毒的部分"},{"start":11945.151,"end":11960.897,"text":"你怎麼說呀問題從以前發生到現在你解決了什麼問題還是你讓民間原來對於體育有這麼多的期待我們國內有這麼多的優秀的不管是年輕人也好或者是成年人在學在校都一樣"},{"start":11961.897,"end":11970.382,"text":"大家對於這些的項目大家都希望能夠鼓勵讓我們的選手不管是學生也好或是職業選手都能夠將來發光發熱在國際間你的處理方式是這樣處理平安講部長我很失望你剛才的態度我很失望我告訴你為什麼我們平常的一些的東西因為屬於教育部管的"},{"start":11983.376,"end":12010.496,"text":"你們在審酌這些的基金會也好你們意見多得不得了啊你們意見連就是說為什麼你的這個比例這個是多少那你將來的活動應該這個少一點那個多一點什麼東西的你們意見多得不得了啊對於這個奧運將來在全球能見度這麼高的東西然後你置之不理然後你還講說2022你已經婉拒婉拒到現在為止你在這個時候事件發生的時候你才處理"},{"start":12011.477,"end":12016.06,"text":"你自己不該檢討嗎?剛才吳世耀委員還在這邊告訴你說你有這個三大不良、三大不公、三大檢討前面講的東西委員講的都成了廢話完全沒有聽到你的耳朵裡面去嗎?因為時間已經超過一分鐘了是不是部長事後再跟委員回應好嗎?"},{"start":12033.01,"end":12042.213,"text":"我再講另外一個因為態度傲慢然後我再提到另外一個也拜託在事後回答的沒關係我只有講問題而已就是人才荒對於人才荒的部分我們看到這一些的訊息不管是施政榮也好這一些的訊息都出來了人才荒教育部的確實的解決的方案是什麼也拜託用書面好嗎"},{"start":12058.138,"end":12059.36,"text":"謝謝李桂民委員質詢 莊瑞雄委員質詢"},{"start":12077.453,"end":12085.942,"text":"委員好部長好我在質詢教育部我都比較肯定的一個態度但是有幾個問題要來就教我們今年整個台灣籃球界格外的熱鬧我想除了很多國際賽特別多以外場外的風波其實也很多"},{"start":12096.792,"end":12121.379,"text":"那我想幾個問題,就臺灣亞運,我們這個藍藍的一個培訓裡面在今年的5月18號就已經成軍了那這一次的一個亞運的一個藍藍培訓隊裡面我們也看到發生了許多的一個破折比如說國手就指出加入培訓隊以後才知道說要打的比賽有這麼多甚至還要到日本去打這個交流賽而藍協每一年最重視的一個比賽就我們體育署每一年補助了一堆的經費的一個瓊士盃"},{"start":12123.26,"end":12144.281,"text":"那這些國手竟然是說沒有任何的一個保險那在整個亞運開打由前藍協舉辦的一個跨聯盟的一個邀請賽裡面因為不滿這個直男工會的協助培訓從七月份以來就公開呼籲跟爭取他們也認為沒有獲得重視跟改善培訓隊才去退出這個"},{"start":12145.061,"end":12150.906,"text":"宣布退賽,不參加聯盟的邀請賽。由藍協選拔祖訓的國家代表隊因資源匱乏,因此退出藍協主辦的比賽。這個實在是很沒有面子,我相信署長也待過協會的,這個你應該是感受特別深刻。在今年6月底、7月初的時候,本席知道當時要去日本打交流賽的一個代表隊,"},{"start":12169.983,"end":12188.392,"text":"一下子一對這麼多人竟然只帶一個環務員這個是很離譜的那我跟部長反映了以後還有署長也都反映以後都大力支持這個所以我表達這個肯定但當時本席跟署長跟部長反映的時候說增加後勤編制的部分署長那個時候是很豪氣"},{"start":12189.692,"end":12202.943,"text":"部長也說大力支持說未來在10人以上的代表隊最少要都配兩名的一個防護員這個都本席先表達一個肯定但是也要指出來的就是說整個後勤的一個編制尤其是防護員這個人數的比例"},{"start":12205.245,"end":12210.131,"text":"倒也不是說一概都全部訂幾個人應該是說針對比賽的項目、層級、強度來做分別的一個設定你像比如部長跟署長像電競代表隊的人數跟棒球"},{"start":12220.182,"end":12243.251,"text":"那這個這樣的強度就有所落差啦那尤其現在是整個這整個國際賽裡面大家看到說情搜人員對整個成績他其實他的貢獻是有目共睹的你說職棒在參加國際賽不斷在擴充情搜的一個團隊那這一次亞運本市也建議應該再去增加這些情搜人員但體育署說你說這邊支持協會沒補起來"},{"start":12247.193,"end":12272.814,"text":"這個我就覺得這個很離譜的一個方式啊他的理由當然很簡單他說亞運發入場證的時候有人數的一個限制但其實這些都可以有變通的方式啊你敢被騙他就好了啊不是這樣子嗎所以這個理由我看起來都不通啦那所以啊這個每一年幾乎都有各種層級各種運動項目的一個國際賽這個部分我們教育部跟體育署這個地方是不是可以盡快來展開研議"},{"start":12274.335,"end":12302.526,"text":"是跟委員報告因為確實剛才委員提到包含在今天的報告我們特別提到這些候請人員在參與比如像奧運等級的這個他們在大會籌備會確實都會對各國有人數限制但我們這次採取就跟委員這樣提到的也比較全面的方法我們這次會去設類似中繼站的概念那中繼站就不在他們大會的規範範圍但是我們的人員確實是可以到"},{"start":12303.106,"end":12321.693,"text":"比賽果的這個臨近現場的概念所以我想這方面我們確實會從選手教練的需求裡面把這些後勤的部分把過去我們常常會說總量的限制之下結果就沒辦法去做資源的部分今年在2024的巴黎奧運會有一個比較彈性的規劃"},{"start":12325.034,"end":12350.429,"text":"好 那我想這個另外就是說我們在整個國家運動科學中心9月16號也正式揭牌了我要請教部長跟署長說我希望說未來在國家隊的後勤編制配備的部分這個運科中心你扮演的角色你像比如說除了比賽本身的技術的一個支持之外是否可以在後勤隊的一個組成的階段納入整個運科中心你共同去做一個參與"},{"start":12351.77,"end":12364.857,"text":"其實像這一些不管是賽前或者說整個賽事的安排這個部分這個政府我們既然補助了那麼多錢這個部分我們教育部或者體育署這個地方其實應該再去做一個更完善的要求才對"},{"start":12370.467,"end":12387.199,"text":"是,根據委員報告也謝謝我們大運這邊的支持運科中心成立掛牌已經開始運作目前也正在招募那未來運科中心跟國性中心在有關協助選手教練的這個運科人員的部分會做好這個分工"},{"start":12388.54,"end":12404.195,"text":"運科中心未來在整個研發這方面當然就包含剛才委員提到的幾項這個會是他們主要的任務那實務的人員等於說跟選手直接比如像這些相關的人員實務的這部分會由運科處來協助所以兩個單位會做這樣的一個分工合作"},{"start":12411.018,"end":12435.13,"text":"職欄公會這個其實不斷地在做呼籲啦那我是否可以比照這個職棒這個公會的一個模式你雙方去簽署運動員參與國家的一個協約提供運動員更大的一個保障過去這個部分其實幾乎都是狗吠火車啦那今天部長跟署長都在這個地方我們都期待像這種情況都要去做一個改善啦我最後一個問題就是說這個大家在講說整個這個賭博這個問題啊"},{"start":12440.66,"end":12445.444,"text":"運動賽事涉及到賭博的問題你說過去來看的話為了防範整個職業運動的遷讀跟打假球的部分媒體其實都報導很多啦職棒的部分其實過去也有很多例子職籃的部分我們都希望這一些案子在整個職業賽事裡面我們體育署這個地方或跟教育部這個地方我們也必須"},{"start":12465.82,"end":12471.846,"text":"必須要去事先你要把那個規範事先去做一個防範前面有太多的例子了我們請潘部長事後再回應好不好好不好部長這個跟提議署這個地方要特別要去回應整個社會對這方面的一個不滿跟要求"},{"start":12483.997,"end":12494.985,"text":"過去有太多知名的教練、球員轉個身份,到最後還是涉案。這個我們看了都非常痛心。事後我也請部長跟體育署特別注意。謝謝莊委員的質詢。我們請潘部長事後再回應。謝謝部長請回、署長請回。謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢。下一位是王婉玉委員。"},{"start":12514.471,"end":12530.482,"text":"主席來有請潘部長委員好部長我們知道今天有很多人都在討論電競協會的事情但是呢我除了電競協會之外其實還有很多有問題的單項協會不好意思我想請教部長就好了"},{"start":12533.014,"end":12550.769,"text":"我們今天想要談竹鞋的問題之所以要特別問部長就是這個問題其實已經談過非常多次了署也給我們很多的想法和很多建議但是始終沒有辦法解決我們認為部長應該要來面對這些問題竹鞋的欠款和財務的狀況從去年開始包括今年的五月、三月我們都提出來很多部分"},{"start":12551.129,"end":12567.658,"text":"署長一直說會處理我們要來努力處理但是最後我們收到的都是足協的說法看不到體育署自己的調查報告包括今年初的時候體育署也表示說會以選手為重競速的優先歸還可是呢我們五月問的女足公會的倩馨"},{"start":12568.158,"end":12591.421,"text":"體育署也承諾要來盡力來做協助十月我們卻看到其他委員包含莊建成委員、陳秀寶委員都召開了記者會到現在出場費也還沒有給還沒有還那還有我們看到他們今年一月的到泰國來踢友誼賽二月到紐西蘭來參加世界盃的附加賽出場費到現在也仍然沒有給所以我們想問的是甚至現在連這種無人製的比賽也有欠薪的狀況"},{"start":12592.242,"end":12607.617,"text":"體育署說要處理但是到現在仍然沒處理也沒有以選手優先為重我們想請教如果這不是包庇縱容什麼是包庇縱容尤其是10月底我們也收到最近一次調查的報告回來足協還了一千多萬但是裡面選手的錢什麼時候可以給"},{"start":12611.191,"end":12636.952,"text":"跟委員報告,確實因為足協在過去財務上的這些情形確實是相當的嚴重那也從新任理事長上任以來我得到的資訊他確實也積極地在財務上面來做處理目前已經把這個財務大概也解決一千八百萬當然還不夠啦,我只是說部長你知道還有欠多少錢嗎?"},{"start":12638.174,"end":12641.64,"text":"詳細的數字我可能手上沒有但是我知道之前確實是一個比較大的一個財務的困境"},{"start":12646.331,"end":12671.241,"text":"是,依照10月現在給我們的資料我們想問的是到底這些出場費給了沒有?今年的欠的這些費用到底給選手了沒有?因為我們收到的報告是說112年度的各項費用沒有任何積欠那之前的記者會這些委員是開假的嗎?難道足協的說法是錯的嗎?我們想先澄清、釐清到底足協該給他們的出場費有沒有給?今年到底還有沒有積欠相關的費用?委員這個細節我需要再了解"},{"start":12675.438,"end":12702.313,"text":"我只是知道他整體從三月到現在是積極的有處理一千八百萬左右的這種自己還的對象包含是不是給選手的出場費等等的這個我可能需要了解部長我們真的希望你能夠一起下來看這個問題啦因為體育署一直跟我們說沒有欠給我們的報告也說一百一十二年沒有欠任何的費用但是剛剛提到一月的泰國二月的紐西蘭的這些賽事都是發生在今年就是一百一十二年度委員們也開過記者會女主也出來說明了"},{"start":12704.674,"end":12727.422,"text":"但是仍然沒有收到回應我們收到的仍然是沒有任何積欠的費用這樣子各說各話的情況我覺得大家完全沒有辦法接受這就是為什麼我們今天希望能夠是由部長來回答部長我們希望大家開記者會大家來提出訴求真的應該要被看見而且更應該要被解決這部分是不是能夠具體告訴我們什麼時候會給這些出場費還有我們到底有沒有心來解決這些問題"},{"start":12729.023,"end":12737.73,"text":"我跟委員報告,任何民間團體他的財務損失這方面我想當然從監督輔導上我們會積極的去處理但是對於現在他們在進行因為這些裡面有很多都是我們的選手、球員包含曾經有幾項他們沒有辦理的這個比較青年盃或女足部長我們只要一個承諾能不能也把選手的權益考慮進去"},{"start":12755.745,"end":12760.811,"text":"今年的部分優先來處理不要再積欠任何的出場費用我跟委員報告因為他這個財務的狀態已經有一段時間了那現在我是跟委員報告說他從上一到現在已經來補償大概一千八百萬"},{"start":12773.867,"end":12785.236,"text":"廠商的部分嘛 那選手呢?是 所以我說現在不理因為教育部不可能去幫他協助財務損失的部分但是現在有很多選手但有監督的責任讓他能夠上軌道的責任正才會說為什麼從3月到現在要求他已經清還清償1800萬也是這個意思"},{"start":12792.202,"end":12813.09,"text":"我們今天談的是能不能選手權益涵蓋在這個清場的範圍裡面能夠優先來處理選手的權益不是只有處理廠商而已我們今天並不是提出一個很嚴重的要求說要今年立刻還完這個九千萬的債務我們不是這樣談的喔我們說今年開始沒有積欠任何的費用是不是也能夠涵蓋選手的出廠費優先來處理"},{"start":12815.111,"end":12843.816,"text":"是,我們行政部長有這樣的承諾我們具體來做推動那當然我們也要看到財務的問題的確是非常大但是體育署、教育部難道沒有責任嗎?當然有體育署對現在的足協好不好?很好上一屆的足協比賽補助了六成五現在補助到八成但他們少了很多自籌款的壓力但是我們卻看到仍然沒有還錢給球員們這是我們覺得非常生氣的部分所以我們希望剛剛提到能夠具體來承諾選手的部分優先處理第二個部分就是也要善盡監督管理的責任"},{"start":12844.416,"end":12872.727,"text":"讓他們能夠還完他們的費用並且如何來做協助包括像是大衛球場的可能性我們也希望部長這邊能夠一起來關注因為這並不是我們所創的包括像外國他們也會像加拿大足協就跟去年就有跟FIFA來做貸款那我們也希望體育署、教育部能夠共同來努力讓他們能夠優先來處理選手的權益之外也能夠盡快的釐清調查的報告能夠告訴大家以及我們如何能夠來協助還款我覺得這部分都應該要跟大家做說明不是只有告訴大家"},{"start":12872.927,"end":12880.011,"text":"因為超過時間了,是不是部長這邊事後書面回應好嗎?好,謝謝部長,部長請回,謝謝王婉玉委員的質詢再來我們請鄭振前委員主席好,我想請潘部長好,潘部長請"},{"start":12902.766,"end":12918.33,"text":"委員好部長好謝謝主席今天安排了針對我們2024年巴黎奧運的一個專報那我想說先請教一下部長你知不知道這個來下一張部長你知不知道這個運動選手是誰"},{"start":12922.113,"end":12939.108,"text":"文資隱文資隱文資隱嘛,OK那表示部長也有在關心所以你知道他得到是什麼樣子的銅牌嗎?委員指的是什麼時候?東京奧運銅牌銅牌,對,他得什麼項目的銅牌?"},{"start":12941.166,"end":12953.654,"text":"空手道同排這表示部長對體育還是有一定程度的關心可是我想問一下部長你知不知道他後來在今年二月份的時候他退出了我們國家隊你知道原因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":12956.316,"end":12968.85,"text":"真正的原因這個可能只有指引他自己比較說明他提了有一些想法可能自己也覺得也許他有另外人生生涯的規劃"},{"start":12970.972,"end":12985.745,"text":"這就是我為什麼在今天這個專報的時候第一個提出這個狀態因為我覺得我們的國家對於真的國家級的運動選手的照顧感覺不太夠啦那我在想這當然有幾個原因比方說第一個是他們在"},{"start":12986.365,"end":13001.433,"text":"比賽過程當中是不是在整個生理跟心理上面的壓力的處理各方面的處理是不是有足夠?第二個就是你剛剛講到生涯規劃的一個問題那因為我記得我們在進立法院的時候之前在討論那個相關的"},{"start":13004.355,"end":13025.648,"text":"那個運動產業發展條例的時候其實我們也特別希望能夠讓運動選手他們有更多的一個機會點那我在想說一開始提這個狀態的時候最主要就是希望說我們對於運動選手的照顧能夠更全面尤其是對於他們的生涯規劃的一個部分否則我覺得一個國家級的運動選手"},{"start":13027.729,"end":13043.839,"text":"謝謝委員因為知道你關注我也跟您說明一下齁其實因為知以為你以這個為主我為什麼剛跟您提到說他有生涯過這是我側面得到的訊息但是對於我們的選手尤其是國手啦亞奧運的國手我們本來就有一個專案齁"},{"start":13045.12,"end":13049.947,"text":"四年就會有一百位的機會轉任他最專長的當然就是擔任就是他退役之後的專任教練的這樣的職缺而且這個部分從之前的東京奧運後"},{"start":13061.323,"end":13079.538,"text":"其實100位當時聘進來已經將近了所以如果對於代表國家參加這樣的一個選手對他未來退役之後即使國家是用這樣的政策在支持這個是當然從體育專業方面的理解"},{"start":13080.699,"end":13096.273,"text":"我們希望讓選手也無後顧之憂這個我是跟委員報告這是從東京奧運之後我們就建立的一個選手退役之後的另外繼續發揮他這也是我們持續希望去推動的部分現在這個制度每四年就一百位每四年喔"},{"start":13098.055,"end":13122.246,"text":"每四年一百位,它是持續下去的嘛對不對那今天我們希望說能夠真正打到這種國際級的運動選手的時候我們希望能夠讓他們不一定只有一百位的限制能夠更廣好不好這個是我們講的那個專其實我們還有另外可以輔導有關在學校部分擔任專業教練的這個當然不只一百位啦那一百位是專門針對代表國家參加亞奧運的了解的選手"},{"start":13126.468,"end":13147.763,"text":"了解所以我就想這個部分的時候就是今天為什麼針對這個巴黎奧運這邊的時候其實我們會特別提到這個點就是因為我們希望運動比賽是四年一次可是對於這些運動選手來講他們是一輩子的一個投入啦所以我們希望能夠對他們有更好的一個照顧那接下來的時候我想問一個點就是"},{"start":13149.564,"end":13176.883,"text":"針對我們今年成立的一個運科中心運科中心的一個狀態我知道我們國訓中心也有運科處剛剛部長在回應其他的委員的時候你大概有提到一個狀態運科中心大概用研究為主研發的部分為主在實際上面的訓練當中就是國訓中心的運科處這邊去做執行我這邊想特別知道是因為"},{"start":13179.804,"end":13207.289,"text":"明年巴黎奧運的時候第一次會考驗到我們運科中心的成果雖然時間很短那因為我看了我們立法院的一個預算中心他講到10月份的時候我們整個運科中心大概只有執行長跟兩個才快的人其他的人都還沒有進來目前到12月1號已經有十幾位已經開始進來了現在有十幾位進來了"},{"start":13209.55,"end":13233.245,"text":"是因為今年大概八、九月才開始掛牌所以時間很短那因為到明年七月二十六號的巴黎奧運是時間也很短所以我們希望在運科中心能夠具體發揮成果對於明年的巴黎奧運有一些的影響所以我這邊也特別關心我們運科中心的這些資料這些data主要從哪裡來"},{"start":13234.826,"end":13249.211,"text":"所謂的data是?比方說包括我們的一些相關的數字一些數據因為運科中心它是需要很多量化需要數據去做很多的分析那我們目前運科中心的這些數據主要從哪些地方取得?"},{"start":13249.591,"end":13278.41,"text":"我跟委員報告因為剛才委員知道因為我們現在國訓中心跟運科中心正式都以行政法人的等於說他們是相同位階只是任務分工讓這兩個中心的分工合作可以幫助到選手跟教練那未來會計建制有關我們選手相關所需要的這個資料不過這個資料庫我也跟委員報告因為你也知道這個涉及到運動競技場上非常重要的對選手的一些資訊這不是對外的公開資訊"},{"start":13280.271,"end":13293.02,"text":"所以我要講的狀態是你沒有這些數據你運科中心其實功能就會很有限所以我要講的狀態是我們現在運動員數據收集主要從哪幾個學校或是從哪些地方有合作配合去取得"},{"start":13294.416,"end":13315.15,"text":"目前還沒有完成所以這才是要成立運科中心來最主要的考量因為過去我們在國訓的運科處主要是比從相關的比較實務上面的協助在研發這方面從人員的組成委員長所以我們目前有哪些學校跟運科中心會有合作你知道嗎"},{"start":13315.67,"end":13334.971,"text":"我現在那天聽完運科中心的執行長的簡報已經陸陸續續有幾個都是跟國內我們蠻典型的大學很簡單的跟你講說其實包括國體包括清華大學包括成功大學包括台北市立大學目前四所學校跟那個我們的運科中心其實有"},{"start":13335.592,"end":13356.197,"text":"一切合作他提供這些數據對那為什麼可以提到這東西這東西是我們後續你有足夠的資料庫你有足夠的數據的時候我們運科中心才能真正的好好去發揮所以本席提到這個點只是希望說透過這個部分的時候讓我們運科中心後續能夠更有效率的去發揮他應該要有的一個影響力因為"},{"start":13357.677,"end":13376.861,"text":"到明年的巴黎奧運只剩下七個多月的時間我們希望育科中心能夠真正幫到這些運動選手讓我們明年在巴黎奧運會有更好的一個成績那這邊的時候我再另外提到一個狀態因為目前我們在國際奧委會的時候有沒有代表"},{"start":13379.022,"end":13393.611,"text":"目前沒有目前沒有對 那這個部分也是我提到想要特別提到的點因為明年巴黎奧運其實有很多運動賽事的項目都有所調整那對於我們國家事實上能夠得到多少的獎牌是不是能夠持續維持在"},{"start":13395.051,"end":13416.908,"text":"東京奧運當中這樣一個成果其實我們也非常的關心那其中有一個很大的部分就是奧委會的代表委員這件事情那從吳京國2020年就是辭掉之後的時候我們目前其實是沒有人的所以他也是我們就是這50年來第一次碰到奧運會的時候我們其實沒有奧委會的委員"},{"start":13418.148,"end":13439.964,"text":"所以本席認為我們教育部這邊應該要讓中華奧委會這邊更積極地去跟國家奧委會那邊去做一個互動然後爭取能夠取得這115席就是奧委會委員裡面的一席因為有奧委會的委員對於整個我們國家運動的一個發展其實有非常大的一個幫助的"},{"start":13440.524,"end":13453.718,"text":"那這邊就特別叮嚀那最後一個部分就是針對整個電競運動這個部分剛剛很多委員都問了那我想特別講到一個狀態是說很多人都在講說這個電競大賞這個部分"},{"start":13457.082,"end":13478.715,"text":"就是涉毒這件事情那這個部分是我們電競協會跟整個國內、國外的一個關係那體育署其實明顯是這個協會的一個指導的一個單位那我針對這個涉毒的事情的時候我只想特別講一個點因為電競對於青少年圈子裡面影響非常大"},{"start":13479.415,"end":13495.496,"text":"那我們除了究責之外呢我們也希望教育部能夠把這個事件變成一個反讀當中很重要的一個切入點透過這個部分不要讓年輕人覺得欸 涉毒之後我可以當"},{"start":13496.737,"end":13522.671,"text":"頒獎人頒獎人感覺比參賽選手更厲害感覺成績更高所以我覺得希望教育部能夠透過這個事件的時候能夠好好的在校園當中去推動反讀這樣的一個宣導那針對這回應剛剛已經有很多委員的回應我這邊就沒有特別再請部長這邊回應我只希望說利用這個部分把反讀的部分在大規模的宣導不要讓電競"},{"start":13524.812,"end":13549.531,"text":"這個大賞這個事件的時候影響到年輕朋友的價值觀好不好?一定,我想反讀的宣導這個一直都持續性在進行那有一些我們特別要再注意的我想我們會加入我們在宣導裡面再提醒我們的所有的學生謝謝部長、謝謝主席好,謝謝,那潘部長、署長請回應謝謝曾政前委員的質詢再來我們請洪孟楷委員"},{"start":13560.731,"end":13562.138,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請潘部長有請潘部長"},{"start":13567.329,"end":13595.199,"text":"好 部長 部長既然我們相關的賽事協會都有獲得我們的運動發展基金的一個補助啦所以說我也認為是說我們教育部基本上來講不應該置身事外因為是主管機關啦不過本期現在先秀出來是說第一個是中華民國電競運動協會其實在你們的預算書裡面也都特別提到是有補助相關部分各位要再問另外一個現在大家也很關心的議題就是現在亞錦賽如火如荼在台灣開打"},{"start":13596.559,"end":13625.036,"text":"對不對來我們看下一張體育署很好本席也給予肯定就是說也有說喜迎棒球亞景賽歡迎我國的民眾來大場為我們加油那我想請教一下部長或是署長有沒有掌握這一次我們的球員在參加亞景賽的部分有沒有什麼樣的一個激勵的一個獎金目前在亞景賽的部分我們有國光獎章國光獎章國光獎金有訓練費"},{"start":13626.731,"end":13640.329,"text":"這個主訓的費用我們都有支持。好,那請教出席費勒?目前我們沒有針對出席費有給予支持。為什麼沒有出席費?這部分我們還是尊重協會啦。那協會這部分當然他跟選手...我們的法令怎麼規定?"},{"start":13644.212,"end":13663.559,"text":"我們的法令國民體育法裡面規定中央主管機關如果說有相關的這一些零用金制度特定體育團體舉辦或參與收益性的商業賽事的話應支付選手出席費,出賽費。報告委員這一場如果說亞錦賽他們在棒鞋的部分有收益的話我們會要求"},{"start":13663.899,"end":13664.52,"text":"委員洪孟楷等"},{"start":13681.943,"end":13706.132,"text":"但是重點在於是現在我們沒有辦法確認說到底我們的亞錦賽這些球員現在開幕賽已經打了我們第一天4比0贏韓國大家都很興奮選手表現很好然後現在選手正在晉級甚至有人講說我們這一次因為是地主所以我們非常有可能能夠再來奪冠是不是?那就到目前選手打一天算一天然後不知道說有沒有出場費"},{"start":13708.086,"end":13731.409,"text":"我們主管機關這樣合理嗎?這部分我會再來跟棒協來做研議所以到目前為止沒有討論到這因為本席就接獲爆料本席接獲爆料是說到目前為止去詢問了現在出賽的球員兩個球員都跟我們回覆是說沒有出席費有的可能就是訓練費跟國光獎章但是大家也認為是說奇怪"},{"start":13731.769,"end":13751.588,"text":"之前國民體育法我們相關的部分應該要出席出賽費而且這算是一個商業性的賽事我們不能說大家看到風光的時候大家全部都去來沾光那結果最基本的我們的核心價值是選手是球員的時候選手球員的權益沒有保障部長認不認同啊部長您是大家長"},{"start":13759.309,"end":13771.818,"text":"委員這個因為法規我想是明確的然後至於說剛才蘇蘭也特別提到一點他是不是能達到這個有關收益的這部分是需要再跟協會"},{"start":13774.52,"end":13798.039,"text":"我們當初國民體育法定義有講說收益代支出嗎?或說有相關的部分嗎?還是說我現在本席現在提出來這個問題我覺得因為這一次的球員大多數也都是職棒球員我們知道職棒球員其實現在已經是職棒賽季結束了相關的球員其實他們也是如果說多打比賽第一有可能冒著是他們的選手生命的風險"},{"start":13798.88,"end":13823.89,"text":"第二、他們的休息時間比較短第三、打完這次亞景賽之後再到明年的賽季又要馬上又再集訓又要回母球團報到其實某種程度上他們都是為國爭光那本席只是提出來說不要每一次我們既然已經有嚴格的制度跟規定我們就應該要符合那尤其我們體育署尤其我們教育部又是上位的主管機關不要邊打邊走不然"},{"start":13825.031,"end":13833.266,"text":"現在已經在打那可能這兩天又有賽事難道這些球員就要冒著說不了解的狀況到底今天這一場有沒 明天這一場有沒這是態度問題吧 部長"},{"start":13836.856,"end":13861.484,"text":"是不是時間的緣故部長是不是事後再書面回應或怎樣?部長本席點出來只是因為確實有人有爆料本席也接獲爆料那也確實有人有反應我們看到國民體育法竟然有這樣一個規定大家也都想要了解主管機關的態度如果說主管機關只是認為是說這得過且過或是說再來溝通可能對選手是沒有保障的其實出場費也沒有多少錢啊恭喜在"},{"start":13862.564,"end":13887.741,"text":"這個是Kimochi的問題但是如果連最基本這一些都沒有辦法保障我們不知道說還有什麼能夠保障我想這一點也是我們現在在討論說今天不管是大巨蛋條款或者是之前的魔獸條款所謂的黃牛票我們要禁止的這樣的一個修法本席也有提案我們要的是主管機關有明確的態度來去嚇阻一切步伐並且保障我們選手的選手生命這樣可以嗎"},{"start":13887.981,"end":13891.222,"text":"今天登記質詢均已發言完畢另有委員劉世芳提出書面質詢接下來我們審查運動產業發展條例相關草案現在開始逐條審查請醫事人宣讀條文內容並進行討論與協商"},{"start":13915.229,"end":13918.033,"text":"討論時如有新增修正動議,請議事人員一併宣讀。"},{"start":13927.394,"end":13949.641,"text":"二十四之一條有縣版、洪孟楷版、莊瑞雄版、廖國棟版、張廖萬堅版、林一錦版、吳四堯版、陳秀寶版、蘇志芬版、沈發慧版、黃國書版、陳亭飛版、時代力量黨團版、劉兆豪版、余天版、蘇巧慧版、江永昌版、萬美齡版另有修正動議、林一錦跟陳培威委員的修正動議"},{"start":13953.271,"end":13982.123,"text":"看委員有沒有要發 哪位要發言 陳培宇委員先謝謝主席 那我聽一下那個修正動議的部分也是需要跟署長還有部長討論因為像如果是用送票的部分 沒有票價買賣這個部分那如何懲罰這個黃牛票的部分那可不可以請署長或是部長這邊說明一下 好 謝謝好 那個 剛剛洪孟楷然後再林怡瑾再吳思瑤"},{"start":13983.442,"end":14008.332,"text":"好 主席感謝我想我們今天針對二十四之一條剛剛也提到就是說這不管是之前的魔獸條款或是說現在大巨蛋條款重點在於是說我們鼓勵大家去參與運動賽事當然我們杜絕這種黃牛的文化那本席先請教一下因為今天我們應該有內政部的警政署的官員也有到場本席有注意到在這個今年的三月"},{"start":14011.189,"end":14029.876,"text":"我們協助的這一次亞錦賽的這個開幕戰的這個廠商就是說協助我們的系統商是拓園售票他其實也都是這國內的一個算是知名的一個售票系統那今年3月的時候他也有在辦相關的不管是演唱會或是說相關的這個"},{"start":14031.176,"end":14059.008,"text":"販售門票的時候都是被銷售一空當時的執行長還有講到是說一秒就能送出四次交易的帳號會是真人嗎?機器人程式交易越來越猖獗所以他已經從系統上進行修正接下來把相關可疑的交易記錄、數據、帳號全部交給刑事警察局針灸隊等著看吧我想請教一下從今年3月到現在我們刑事警察局這邊辦的怎麼樣?"},{"start":14061.445,"end":14080.784,"text":"可不可以回答我這個問題第一就是說他有沒有交來那有沒有辦案的一個進度跟狀況有沒有找到因為為什麼本席會先提出來這個問題我們訂二十四條之一不管多嚴謹今天甚至行政院的版本我想相對來講力道是大的說如果說利用電腦或是相關票券購買"},{"start":14082.786,"end":14094.799,"text":"這個偽造資料或是其他不正常的方式就代表是說比如說機器人城市比如說相關的這些城市處三年以下有期徒刑或病科罰金三百萬元以下那當然問題是抓不抓得到"},{"start":14096.243,"end":14118.693,"text":"所以我們訂了這個之後我們有沒有這個利器管道跟方式抓到那今年3月拓園的執行長就已經有講是說把相關的這些資料都送來針灸隊了那我們針灸隊到目前為止已經快大半年過去了我們有沒有破貨抓到或是有任何的這種利用機器人程式的這種帳號來去處理報告委員吼我們"},{"start":14122.751,"end":14136.579,"text":"我們是不是先等這一輪完之後再回應好嗎?再來是林益菁委員,然後等會吳思瑤委員,然後再來張綺路委員。好,謝謝主席。"},{"start":14137.961,"end":14162.964,"text":"我想今天我們討論這個杜絕這個運動賽事的黃牛所以有這個二十四條之一的修法討論那當然我想我們就特別注意到今天早上的質詢我也有特別提到就是說像這次大巨蛋的測試賽全面免費索票那票價就是零嘛可是這一次有被炒到一張四、五千塊"},{"start":14164.225,"end":14168.589,"text":"那所以變成這樣的一個黃牛如果按照我們現在的院版的修法的這個條文是沒有辦法罰到錢的因為是要按照票面的票價10至50倍所以這個可能就是要來做看怎麼處理那當然今天早上諮詢的時候署長是說可能會用行政措施好像說用實名制啦或者是說這個其他的方法來處理"},{"start":14192.469,"end":14216.025,"text":"但用這樣的方式其實也是在遏止黃牛的減少可是如果真的黃牛發生好像看起來也沒辦法處罰所以我覺得還是要用修法的方式來處罰這個這個如果是票價是零元的時候的黃牛那所以我也有提了一個修正動議那待會大家一起討論看看那這個修正動議是這樣就是說如果有黃牛販售"},{"start":14217.026,"end":14236.761,"text":"全面免費鎖票入場的這種賽事或紅票又被抓到那就按票卷張數由主管機關每張票卷一萬八千元以下的划反那一萬八千怎麼來就是參考社會秩序維護法第六四條那所以我想當然可是這個跟"},{"start":14237.682,"end":14251.675,"text":"我的版本跟這個涉惡違法不同之處是說我的提案有進一步要求就是要按照票卷的張數所以就是每張就是罰一萬八千元以下依照情節來看這樣以上 謝謝"},{"start":14255.498,"end":14274.038,"text":"禮儀錦委員,再請吳思耀委員發言。下一位張綺露委員。好,謝謝主席。幾個方面很快的報告一下。第一個,我們從6月份,6月2號正式通過文創法之後,其實可以看到藝文產業的黃牛,它接受裁罰的數量,"},{"start":14276.32,"end":14288.766,"text":"就是過去十年來的數量換言之這短短上路來的四五個月你看喔收到1381件的檢舉當中還有147件是體育類的然後高雄已經開罰八件台北已經開罰五件對應於沒有文創法修法之前黃牛幾年來就是這個數字所以我們四五個月就有這個執行數字代表這個法很重要"},{"start":14302.333,"end":14313.997,"text":"所以第一點我是希望我們如果沒有太多衍生的爭議的話,就是快速讓它通過。第二個呢,就是我同意剛剛一經委員說的,針對這種新樣態的黃牛,可以拿那個免費票券去賣,我們就應當用一個新的,這個磨高一尺,道要一丈。所以這個我同意要新增這個條文的部分。那私謠自己的24條之一呢,有兩項是跟原版比較不一樣的。"},{"start":14330.603,"end":14348.801,"text":"也就是黃牛未遂也是黃牛所以我也把預備犯放進來但我這尊重大家的意見當初在文創法的時候我也提出這主張只是大家後來也沒有接納但我覺得在運動的賽事是不是也要可以做這個處置第二個我的第五項是增訂的"},{"start":14349.642,"end":14370.124,"text":"就是一般的因為運動賽是至我的理解還是比那種幾年一次然後添團來其實運動賽會的舉辦是更密集更頻繁所以換言之真的會有已經購票的人他相對會是因為我的時間突然不行他要換票"},{"start":14370.865,"end":14389.338,"text":"所以我是在第五項裡頭給予一個合理的換票的彈性就是說我真的是因為時間沒多好我要用我一定買來這是善意的第三人啦那用這種善意的人的這個換票的彈性給予他我是增訂在第五項那我要強調文創法跟運動我們現在審的產業發展條例比較不一樣的在我看待黃牛的樣態我會認為"},{"start":14397.944,"end":14423.451,"text":"真的會比較有因為他賽事更多他對於這個善意的我臨時沒辦法去看的人他的這種發生的機率會比較高所以這一個部分給予合理換票彈性的這一個條文我希望能夠放進來才能夠保障有一些人他是善意的單純換票被誤觸的以為他就是黃牛來重罰這是我的提醒好報告謝謝"},{"start":14426.006,"end":14449.406,"text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員那我也想跟大家說明一下那這次就是說本來還有張綺露委員還有那個陳培委員跟我的因為我們不只是有十二之一還有別的條文像我的部分還有勞動權益跟性別平等的部分那為了議事效率我們這次預算匯集就沒有放入那跟這幾位委員之前一樣因為朝委自己也沒有放入那再來我們請張綺露委員發言"},{"start":14451.127,"end":14475.087,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉那我這邊也是就是順著剛才昭偉在談到這件事我也是表達一下就是民眾黨黨版這邊事實上也有提出我們這次的這個運動產業發展條例的這個修法事實上我們也是修兩條其中24條這邊其實民眾黨這邊其實是跟院版其實是一致的啦"},{"start":14475.607,"end":14501.449,"text":"所以其實我必須先表述一下就是說我們本來也就是支持這件事情那只是這次真的蠻可惜的就是說沒有辦法把我們這個版本納入但是我還是先要陳述就是說民眾黨黨版這邊事實上也是非常關切這件事而且我們也是跟行政院院版是一致那同時也跟大家報告事實上民眾黨的這個黨版這邊其實我們是在九月初我們就提了事實上我們比院版更早一點"},{"start":14502.883,"end":14521.486,"text":"經審都是完全一樣的另外因為我們這次是有加入第八條那第八條其實說實話本來也應該跟今天24條是沒有會衝突因為為什麼?因為這個第八條這邊我們加的這個項目是所謂的就是維持票券的這個正常交易跟維護市場秩序"},{"start":14521.946,"end":14546.293,"text":"就是希望這個全職主管機關能夠也就這個部分就是說要律定在就是說它本來它就業管的那個事項裡面所以是這樣子加所以等於說第八條其實是剛好是呼應第24條我們今天24之一這邊的這個修法這個重點所以其實精神是一致的那當然我們因為我們也知道這個預算會期在最後時間是比較緊迫"},{"start":14547.293,"end":14563.294,"text":"那我也瞭解了可以說因為其實我們這次教文委員會也不只是民眾黨版這邊比較遺憾沒有辦法放進去那包括召回自己的也在也沒有放所以我們就是尊重這樣子的一個議事審議的"},{"start":14565.444,"end":14567.104,"text":"中文字幕由 Amara.org 社群組成"},{"start":14588.767,"end":14616.507,"text":"謝謝張綺露委員代表民眾黨版就是說沒辦法納入的表達一致的支持態度再來我們請陳秀寶委員發言然後下一位張亮萬堅委員謝謝主席我這邊的版本根據我們今天要大家要修的這個運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一的這個部分我的版本其實就是參考文創法的第十條之一來訂定的那院版的方向是一樣的主要討論還是說體育署其實要怎麼執行"},{"start":14618.128,"end":14630.056,"text":"文化部已經分三個部份跨部會成立打牛小組與警政署合作官方網站設置檢舉黃牛票專區之後會翻案到各地方政府裁罰體育署在官網上設置檢舉黃牛票專區讓民眾來檢舉有發現這樣的事件來認定之後由相關單位裁判"},{"start":14647.608,"end":14652.793,"text":"刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及"},{"start":14665.806,"end":14680.383,"text":"參照文創法的部分划寬是10到50倍但重現這次的中韓大戰看那個票這樣子的黃樑票真的太猖獗了運動賽事的票券本來就比義文票券的價格比較低如果實際上以10倍"},{"start":14680.683,"end":14703.272,"text":"五十倍這個樣子來比例上來算的話金額呢這個以運動賽事的票的罰的金額會比藝文黃牛票還要低所以嚇阻率是這樣子不太夠的話是不是大家也可以評估一下就是這個罰款的倍數的部分大家來討論那另外剛才已經委員所提的這個修正動議我本人也很認同因為其實黃牛他們販售這樣子的票券謀利謀取暴利的這種"},{"start":14704.633,"end":14717.394,"text":"此情境是越來越多的手法跟翻新那如果說可以制定一個這樣子的規範按照這個社會秩序維護法這個部分來裁罰的話應該會更有一個嚇阻的效力以上"},{"start":14719.31,"end":14734.998,"text":"謝謝陳秀寶委員再張耀萬堅委員我的版本其實跟行政院的方向都一致啦都是按照文創法十之一的精神不過我早上質詢的時候呢也特別提到說這個免費票的問題所以我也連署了這個林議警的這個"},{"start":14736.098,"end":14749.909,"text":"臨時動議啦,我覺得應該有一個裁法的另外我要之前大概有提過就在審預算的時候曾經提過就是說你看我早上講說事實上我們的檢舉案相當多可是有些個案也引起民怨比如說他只是加價15塊的手續費結果也被檢舉"},{"start":14752.671,"end":14773.29,"text":"那這個我問了他們他們說那會請他來說明可是問題是這個是很耗費這個行政繁瑣就是說你看我們檢舉了一千多件那這個台北有213案台中16案高雄有60幾案那事實上裁法的沒有幾件那有些是類似的狀況所以我認為這個執法還是要訂一些樣態"},{"start":14776.593,"end":14800.321,"text":"就說直接他如果說他只是一個基本只是手續費、郵費那個就不用再去耗費人家去找人家來傳打電話叫人家來莫名其妙犯罪一樣這個會造成困民怨所以我認為執法這個部分一定要想辦法先把這過濾掉過濾掉之後對於那些哄抬真正去處罰那些哄抬的否則你如果300多件有一半以上都是這種案件"},{"start":14801.041,"end":14808.869,"text":"那根本就不是真的在抓黃牛那後悔我們行政力量所以我希望執法部份應該有一些樣態、裁法、裁傳謝謝"},{"start":14812.144,"end":14835.878,"text":"謝謝張亮萬間委員那我也簡單說明一下我的部分雖然沒有進來但是跟院版的精神一樣因為我們上次就是也是我自己擔任召委的時候文創產業發展條例才處理過那我想罰款額度然後機器人掃票的話應該要更高這些部分我都很支持那因為今年9月王力宏演唱會跟11月的那個co-play"},{"start":14836.198,"end":14851.308,"text":"都有破獲大量掃案所以代表就是我們體育的黃牛票也應該要比照修法完成再來我們是不是請剛剛是不是要請內政部警政署刑事警察局這邊先說明鄭宏志請用麥克風"},{"start":14863.761,"end":14892.011,"text":"主席還有洪委員謝謝指教那我們警政署接獲相關的這個各部會的那個有關黃牛票這一部分都會依法來偵辦那文創法修法以後啊我們臺北市新北市還有高雄市還有我們刑事局共同有偵破三件剛剛主席也提到王力宏還有王新寧還有郭柏惠的這個三件案件以不正常的這個掃票系統大量來掃票"},{"start":14893.251,"end":14908.712,"text":"那這一部分我們在9月6號也發布我們刑事警察局偵破臺灣手中的AI的這個掃票系統就是黃蓉票這一部分的販售那媒體也大篇盧的報導"},{"start":14909.893,"end":14935.342,"text":"我想我們跟文化部這邊也有建立這個檢舉的黃油專區的網站只要這個民眾或是我們文化部這邊有發現相關的這個賽事或是這個藝文活動有販賣黃油票的這個情形隨時可以透過這個管道跟我們這邊做一個聯繫我們也會主動來追查那相關也會報警檢察官來指揮偵辦以上報告"},{"start":14938.749,"end":14961.436,"text":"好,謝謝。那體育署或是教育部這邊有沒有要說明的?好,先署長請。好,針對陳培宇委員以及林益錦委員針對免費票的部分我想這部分因為是可能到我們跟文化部在他們的環遊票的部分有立法政策的一致性所以我們才會想說我們這部分我們還是沒有將這個"},{"start":14962.816,"end":14986.001,"text":"票面金額那個罰款的部分把它納入那但是呢如果他一樣以虛偽資料或其他不正的方式呢這部分還是有牽涉在裡面這還是可以罰的那因為如果用免費票的部分納入的話第一個他的打擊面是非常的大比方說我們所有的運動賽事只要這方面的免費的這種索票的情況都會納入那之後我們想說是不是讓我們在"},{"start":14991.209,"end":15020.309,"text":"我們是處罰黃牛耶就是我拿了免費的票然後我拿出去不當販售這樣整個的那個範圍會非常非常的大因為我們所有的運動的賽會通只要免費的話因為我們大部分的運動賽會賽事呢請問署長還怎麼會怕處罰很多的黃牛呢我只是說在執行面上面的部分會當然這個OK啦我說我們沒有堅持不要只是說這立法的政策一致性啦是不是那我們在這次立法之後呢之後再做檢討當然如果今天"},{"start":15021.19,"end":15032.661,"text":"委員認為這部分還是要納入,比方說移經委員的每張一萬八以下的這樣的罰款來進行的話,那我們當然就要請文化部這邊,他們可能回去也會有在他們的法的部分也會有一所檢討。"},{"start":15035.529,"end":15057.477,"text":"你請修正東應該有在桌上喔因為我這邊有大家可以看一下好那個張亮萬堅委員第一個是剛才那個警政署這邊喔有回應說有抓到這個我們當然都覺得說這個立法通過之後有這樣子的一個抓到而且用新的法來重罰我覺得這個是可喜可賀啦但是我剛才有問嘛台中有一案他的加價15塊的手續費可是他還是被調查"},{"start":15058.317,"end":15076.245,"text":"那最後也沒有裁罰然後呢卻引發這個民怨我覺得這個齁就是說我們的那個母法底下還是會有一些取締的樣態啦就是說還是要還是要有一個比例原則就沒有人會為了那15塊錢去去做黃牛嘛那像這部分的你們應該要有一些列舉啦"},{"start":15077.77,"end":15106.67,"text":"免得說那個執法機關他覺得有增加幾塊錢他就全部都要調來問那這個這樣也耗費你的整個行政成本然後你沒有真的抓到那個黃牛這是一個另外一個就是說那個免費票的部分我是覺得只有在那個爆滿的譬如說那個這一次的那個巨蛋那個就是都沒就沒有不能進去的可是他是送票那因為其他人不能進去他當然就會有利可圖啦那這部分如果不罰的話還是會引起民怨的"},{"start":15107.61,"end":15131.713,"text":"這部分可能還是要考慮一下還有陳培鈺委員再來吳思耀委員謝謝主席剛剛那個署長提到跟文創法的部分你說希望可以對齊文創法那我要說因為新型態各式各樣的表演型態一直在更新那我覺得立法院的態度應該是都是傾聽民意理解民意的所以我覺得後續文創法如果有需要再修部分再回來調修"},{"start":15132.614,"end":15156.432,"text":"但是我覺得這一次剛剛已經很多委員都說了這一次鎖票的事件其實造成這麼多的民怨我覺得應該還是要在這一次我相信應該委員都會認同還是要把它放進去那如果如同署長說的因為民間太多體育賽事都是免費鎖票那不就是更應該要把這些大家在意的事情放進去嗎好 以上謝謝好 謝謝陳培委員再來吳思瑤委員然後等一下林益謹委員"},{"start":15158.231,"end":15175.04,"text":"兩部分就是剛剛說的零元票價然後他去賣是不是黃牛我覺得當然是啊對不對他就是惡意的他免費取得可是他就得到了"},{"start":15176.246,"end":15203.146,"text":"利益嘛所以說販售以我們如果看林怡瑾委員的修正動議她新增的第三項文字很清楚喔就是販售全面免費索票入場之賽事或活動票券者這個前提就在這裡嘛對不對只是說要不要加一個什麼以高價販售沒關係啦反正就是因為怡瑾這樣寫只要去賣就不行因為每個票證上面都有寫"},{"start":15204.403,"end":15227.659,"text":"零元,而且我記得如果我們看,他會寫說不得轉讓嘛。那不得轉讓甚至就是不得轉賣嘛,不是嗎?所以,如果以這個文字、這個主題就是成立嘛,我們認定他是黃牛。然後呢,怎麼處罰,就是我們要討論的。因為剛剛培餘的版本是每張五百塊,然後去算他的倍數。"},{"start":15229.576,"end":15257.894,"text":"來法十到五十倍那以儆是用它設為法的一定的那個就是用一個統一價去去處罰啦所以我覺得這個是可以討論一下因為這個法是修在文創法之後那這是一種雖然不是說新生樣態以前也有但是這段時間讓我們看到這是必須我們修法的這個timing就是要去回應社會的所以我希望能夠放這第一件事情"},{"start":15258.835,"end":15280.178,"text":"第二件事情大家勞煩可以看一下五四遙版本的二十四條之一我新增的第五項就是剛剛外監委員說的因為運動賽會很多很多已經叫到今天沒辦法去我善意的把我的票讓出去我覺得我們是鼓勵這件事情的因為讓更多人可以到現場去看去支持體育是好的"},{"start":15281.059,"end":15290.796,"text":"所以我針對就是說第二項所訂將運動賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或定價販售不含行為人自主"},{"start":15293.338,"end":15318.115,"text":"行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票券而實際支出之手續費、郵寄費或行為人販售該運動賽事或活動票券所實際支出之郵寄費。就我有給他一個合理的我買的手續費啊或者是我要寄給你對不對大家上網去弄而且我有建議文化部應該建立一個換票平台如果有這個官方換票平台也許就沒有這個問題但目前沒有嘛"},{"start":15320.256,"end":15334.794,"text":"所以說這種合理的東西我今天不能去看統一師然後我要賣給林怡瑾我說我這個郵寄費、快遞費你要多給我兩百塊彼此心甘情願也合理嘛就我變黃牛了"},{"start":15335.515,"end":15336.896,"text":"我還是覺得我的修正動議有起必要性就是說因為"},{"start":15354.072,"end":15360.361,"text":"當然這種所謂的一般的免費賽事很多運動賽事 像是說HBL就是類似這種那這種基本上有黃牛的機會相對少認真講是這樣就學生的賽事運動賽事那像大巨蛋那個測試賽那個"},{"start":15371.135,"end":15392.303,"text":"那個那個就當然發生就是有發生而且我覺得我們還是要用法律來杜絕類似這種大型賽事大家要搶票可是是免費那那有造成黃牛的狀態所以所以像未來我就是像台中啊如果足球足球新的足球場開了那也要測試賽的時候"},{"start":15393.783,"end":15397.905,"text":"我們昏迷同樣的困境所以說我現在在修法的時候就把這個把它完備了起來所以我覺得這個零元票價的這個黃牛這個部分要處理應該要在這次一併處理那再來就是說我贊成那個司堯委員剛剛講的就是說如果這個這個我不能看那我轉讓給別人這個手續費跟這個郵寄費是不是"},{"start":15419.717,"end":15447.277,"text":"排除在黃牛的這個認定上可能會比較OK是不是這個也放在這個讓修法比較完善一點以上好 那再來王婉玉委員記得我當時在我們當時在修法的時候其實就有談到他有幾個樣態嘛包括說他可能變相的方式贈送門票給他比如說他可能要用兩千塊錢買我的簽名然後我送他一張門票的這種變相的方式還有如果是貴賓票券他如果是免費的情況之下如果他轉售怎麼樣來做處理"},{"start":15448.098,"end":15476.991,"text":"我非常清楚當時其實我們部會的回應是說這絕對現在都有辦法處理這都算是在黃牛的範圍之內但實際上今天為什麼要提出修法就是顯然當時的討論真的它就發生了現在有大量的這樣子免費的門票、鎖票之後轉售的情況的確就發生了所以當時其實我覺得就應該要納入來所以這次的修法我們也是完全贊成應該要把免費鎖票又或者是免費的票券更加清楚地來做定義那當時的討論是說如果它是免費票券"},{"start":15477.751,"end":15492.788,"text":"是不是應該用同級的規格來訂定它的這個票價然後來做相對應的倍數的來做處理我覺得不論是這樣的方式又或者是定額的方式我覺得都是一個可以討論的方向但是的確就應該來面對到不論是貴賓券或是不論是整場賽事都是免費的索票的時候都應該要一併來做處理才是比較好的"},{"start":15495.791,"end":15522.435,"text":"那我也支持說應該扣掉適當的手續費不論是用郵寄又或者是面交可能用一定的陳述又或者是一定的金額又或者是固定的金額我覺得都是可以討論的方向因為這也是我們在當時修法的時候就已經提出來的思考方式所以這兩個部分我覺得都應該來面對啦然後也希望能夠具體來討論免費票價的部分如何來做處理好 謝謝齁我想委員的意見都很一致喔那什麼洪孟楷委員發言後體育署這邊就回應好嗎"},{"start":15522.915,"end":15547.94,"text":"好 感謝主席那本席也一樣就身為一個運動迷啦我也認為是說現在的這樣的一個賽事其實主辦不管是HBL不管是UBA這樣的一個賽事也並不是說它沒有成本但是我們政府部門有相關的一個補助所以說它是以推廣運動的角度來免費索取票券但不代表說免費索取票券就應該要被人家濫用變成是獲利的一個來源"},{"start":15548.76,"end":15574.356,"text":"所以這當然是一種形態的一個黃牛其實各行業領域剛剛也有提到貴賓票券或說這個盛大的盛世賽會或者是活動其實都有這樣的狀況我們講的三金金馬金曲金鐘也會有這種索票的一個狀況其實也會有發生說之前也有發生說人家去做免費索票但是轉售的一個狀況所以該杜絕我們應該杜絕那本席也認同剛剛這個吳思耀委員這邊的講法"},{"start":15577.858,"end":15602.708,"text":"這個版本確實如果說有這個交易手續費我們跟平台拿你要去iPhone機你要去什麼機要再多30塊那30塊列印出來的費用你總是應該合理的可以讓大家來做一個轉讓成本的一個概念所以合理的成本應該要把它給扣除那本席這邊多提一個是說我的版本跟其他版本最大不同是有一個累犯條款"},{"start":15603.268,"end":15627.56,"text":"就是三年內如果說違反規定的話增加罰則那我不堅持我講說我不堅持因為今天我們希望是能夠二十四之一條先求有再求好所以我不堅持說一定要把累犯條款放進去有沒有累犯條款會不會讓大家能夠更嚇阻作用大家可以討論那但是本席特別提出來說黃牛這樣的一個行為是讓大家會傷害"},{"start":15628.921,"end":15652.261,"text":"運動迷的心傷害很多球迷的心我們應該用更嚴謹的方式去把它給獨決以上 謝謝好 謝謝那體育署這個鎮署長請回應基本上署面這邊是蠻贊同有設立一個換票平台啦那我們也覺得就是郵寄費這部分的確是合理但手續費的部分只是要小心就是要提醒就是說因為"},{"start":15653.775,"end":15672.095,"text":"犯罪人他有可能在法庭上告訴法官說他所超過票面價這些金額就是他所謂的手續費而這個是沒有一個標準的啦所以在這個案例上面我們是提出提醒那要不要把手續費這件事情納入入法我覺得這個是我們可能要再考量"},{"start":15672.535,"end":15688.441,"text":"那至於免費票的部分看起來執行商是沒有什麼困難之處不過這邊是不是也建議是不是也讓文化部這邊也跟我們分享一下他們的意見跟他們過去的一個執法的狀況好啊那沒有委員反對的話我們就請文化部是哪一位要回應副司長嗎"},{"start":15690.699,"end":15713.249,"text":"呂美麗署長請您分享一下文化部修法後的狀況各位委員大家好我是文化部影視及流行音樂發展師的副市長呂美麗這個法從6月2號執行以後其實我們已經發現它對於整個黃流案件的情形對於藝文票券黃流案件的"},{"start":15714.67,"end":15730.587,"text":"倉爵的情形其實已經有大幅的這個惡質的效果稱如剛剛這個事要委員剛剛所提到的確實已經產生了很大的惡主效果我們並沒有看到過去以往媒體所報導的這個大量的這個高價的轉售譬如說一張票8000塊賣到"},{"start":15732.208,"end":15754.253,"text":"十幾萬塊或者是加價很高的這樣子的一個情形這個憲綱委員說明確實已經產生了很大的惡主效果那我們目前發生了幾個相關的情形綱委員討論的這個公關票我們可以因為這個樣態非常多但其中有一種就是他已經是他是有公開販售的公開販售的他的這個公關票我們會依照當時我們在討論"},{"start":15757.894,"end":15780.141,"text":"二、審訊時的相關定價,我們會用這樣子的情形來處理。所以這部分在法的訂定上是沒有問題的。第二個就是剛剛委員所提到的,它是屬於整場都是零元的這種情形。那整場都是免費票價的,目前我們的處理情形是我們會"},{"start":15781.281,"end":15784.366,"text":"第一個我們會把他這個票移送給這個主辦單位由主辦單位來告訴他們說你們所發出去的這些免費票券有人在這邊公開販售那主辦單位他通常會有兩種處理情形"},{"start":15795.854,"end":15822.416,"text":"主辦單位通常會有兩種處理情形第一個呢他就是會在他的官網上面去公告說目前這一張票是屬於這個黃流票所以他會去註銷他們可以去註銷說這個票卷呢你買了這一張票它是屬於這個黃流票你到時候拿著這個票你是不能夠入場的他們有這樣子的一個相關的處理就是這個主辦單位他們其實也可以用這樣子的方式來請開始"},{"start":15823.297,"end":15850.685,"text":"等一下,注意問一下可是現在會有一個問題喔我買的人我就被買的人我會受到處罰我付了錢然後主辦單位說你不能進場對不對但是賣的人你沒有給他罰沒有給他處罰這樣是罰這個善意的人啊所以確定是有這種樣態就文化部的經驗也有只是說你們的solution是你們認為這樣可以抑止"},{"start":15852.126,"end":15857.21,"text":"就是買的人買方就不會想去買因為他可能會被限制出場但是限制入場但你為什麼不去罰說這種票根本不能賣呢對但是因為當時在我們的法裡面是因為沒有規範到這個"},{"start":15867.398,"end":15892.246,"text":"因為當時我們在這個議文票卷裡面立法說明就提供得很清楚說它是一個公開販售的這個消費的議文票卷所以確實當時在法的討論裡面呢對於全場都是零元的這一部分確實是沒有在法裡面所規範到的那所以呢我們採用了很多的行政措施第一個我們就把這個票卷移給主辦單位由主辦單位他們來相關的的處理那那時候我們也"},{"start":15893.186,"end":15908.242,"text":"主辦單位也給了我們說怎麼樣去處理這些票券的一些相關的建議那這個他們是不是這樣實施其實我們都尊重主辦單位的所以簡單講你們同意我們修 對不對因為也可以解決你們因為沒有修到那一條"},{"start":15908.763,"end":15908.843,"text":"請審討《文創法》的解釋"},{"start":15937.933,"end":15957.704,"text":"我先講一下,因為我們有版本,可是我沒有堅持,我剛剛跟詹大望前委員,我沒有堅持要我的版本或移行委員的版本,可是就是希望要把這個零元票券入法。以上,謝謝。OK,那洪孟楷委員?剛剛講到那個手續費的部分,我建議是你可以加入不合理的手續費。因為剛剛,我們還是應該有合理的手續費嘛。"},{"start":15958.464,"end":15984.794,"text":"合理的手續費是什麼?譬如說我們去拿iPhone機那個30塊的印票券的費用可是如果你講的是說無限上綱說我請人家代牌5000塊所以說我要賣人家多5000塊我覺得這樣就不合理了還有就是說你應該如果說真的有這樣相關的行為的話應該是要拿出相關的單據事證所以說其實這還是可以避免的我們應該是修法獨指這種專漏洞的情形而不是我們"},{"start":15985.934,"end":16003.656,"text":"不把這個漏洞給補起來您可以懂我意思嗎?所以我覺得說剛剛署長你提到是說可能未來認定問題但是我們就應該在法條裡面寫得很清楚譬如說不合理超出售票超出不合理的手續費或是我們一般認知的手續費那就屬於黃牛行為以上 謝謝"},{"start":16005.185,"end":16019.34,"text":"那個你們文字準備好了嗎?因為我想大家意見趨於一致那如果還沒我們是不是休息我建議休息五分鐘五分鐘之後等到文字弄完之後我們就來一起通過好不好因為大家蠻有共識的我們現在休息五分鐘五分鐘後繼續開會"},{"start":16027.785,"end":16039.222,"text":"公開販售機將公開販售的比賽式或活動的條例超過密碼,又一天要賣乾淨,或是把該賽式或活動的條例分量"},{"start":16043.307,"end":16043.688,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16073.347,"end":16082.629,"text":"範疇之教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":16101.772,"end":16120.517,"text":"判斷現場運動品牌族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館�"},{"start":16122.93,"end":16123.09,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16146.288,"end":16164.863,"text":"我爸媽這張照片是那一年江匯我只是跟你說你看我爸媽很高興他們來聽你講話我出錢買票我弟弟他們都帶他上來你知道那時候好像江匯的票非常大我就用兩倍的票兩倍的錢向金融去買我媽媽的票而且江匯比較好"},{"start":16167.125,"end":16184.753,"text":"對,他那個洪孟楷所以我那時候跟家裡的三個都不一樣他國帝他們幫我幫我抱他這樣帶上來聽完之後把我帶回家我記得嘛,我那時候知道有人在賣就問了一下,我說你那個聽說誰誰誰然後我聽到說那個姓崔,知道嗎?我就很感動,對他說有很多人想要跟他接受"},{"start":16194.117,"end":16209.652,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、"},{"start":16216.584,"end":16226.689,"text":"一、潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形、運動員心理健康之整備情形、運動員心理健康之整備情形"},{"start":16245.248,"end":16261.098,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查"},{"start":16273.316,"end":16292.287,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16297.333,"end":16299.635,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16321.157,"end":16326.782,"text":"一張就一萬八五下五下就是說它依照清潔的程度可是按照張數如果它賣的最高最高"},{"start":16343.729,"end":16364.331,"text":"二、倫敦大學教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、倫敦大學教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16365.152,"end":16369.435,"text":"鄉鄰座位的票價?同一區的?"},{"start":16387.111,"end":16388.792,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16407.405,"end":16412.788,"text":"他猜拔樣態就會變成一樣的,就是說有錯。這是完全爭鬥,全面的,東東北北。希望各位不會懶散。"},{"start":16422.692,"end":16426.216,"text":"議員真的很想去,但拿不到啊。就有機殼秤,那就有機殼秤。"},{"start":16441.09,"end":16458.256,"text":"因為文化部因為他們其實也是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的"},{"start":16468.84,"end":16482.889,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16508.602,"end":16510.023,"text":"一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":16526.288,"end":16546.908,"text":"其部份免費就按照那個文草條例嗎?我們這個文草條例也不會有那麼多的A、G、B、C、E、B、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、"},{"start":16553.337,"end":16558.76,"text":"大陸的大陸有大陸是想要成立的社交網站﹖這個就是極限能量大會的市場﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖"},{"start":16583.499,"end":16589.465,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查"},{"start":16614.428,"end":16637.562,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16643.839,"end":16666.395,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16668.972,"end":16693.399,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16704.638,"end":16712.66,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16716.271,"end":16737.001,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16738.98,"end":16759.778,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16759.938,"end":16780.177,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16781.818,"end":16799.948,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16802.169,"end":16802.69,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16818.268,"end":16819.629,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16836.727,"end":16853.692,"text":"他們是幫立法所調給這個協議。或領委員期待標誌來交出。那這樣不是那麼有效果嗎?因為文化部人自己也沒有把這條提出來,然後還說他們把票丟回去院子管理處來說,誒,你們知道嗎?他們說的應該也是前面那一段,前面那一段是他們這樣推出來的。"},{"start":16873.474,"end":16874.555,"text":"原來公關販購裡面也有沒有訂價的。"},{"start":16880.14,"end":16885.722,"text":"將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或將該運動賽事或活動無票面金額票券定價販售者 按票券章數 由主管機關每張票面金額或"},{"start":16909.873,"end":16932.913,"text":"無票面金額票券區域對照所應販售票面金額定價之十倍至五十倍罰款拒號將免費入場之運動賽事或活動票券定價販售者逗號按票面章數逗號由主管機關儲每張票券一萬八千元以下罰款拒號這樣"},{"start":16936.889,"end":16946.252,"text":"第三行對照所應販售票面金額定價刪掉舉個例子來講他就是拿到一張一千塊區域的公關票"},{"start":16957.141,"end":16976.935,"text":"賣了三千塊但是依照我們原來的規定就是不用三千塊去倍數法是用一千塊的十到五十倍所以它就會變成是以該區域對照所應販售的票面金額一千塊是這個意思好謝謝那個吳思耀委員要發言嗎兩個事情第一個第一句話語重無敵長齁那個處長"},{"start":16980.771,"end":16995.351,"text":"是不是這裡以超過票面金額這裡是不是要一個逗號逗號然後或將這個東西怎樣的販售再去處理要不要可以把逗號放在那個或活動票券"},{"start":16996.132,"end":17007.521,"text":"票券的後面可以就是那個主詞是將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券後面逗號因為前面是主詞這樣還有三種用什麼方法的貨對"},{"start":17011.684,"end":17040.274,"text":"好,然後第二個提醒一下因為它有兩種裁罰的基準一個是十倍、五十倍一個是一萬八它各有不同的援引的實務或者是涉違法你們在立法說明裡頭要加強說明否則一般人會覺得這兩個計算是怎麼來的啦你們在那個立法說明裡頭要補充說明這兩個裁罰的現況引用的條文是什麼參照的條文是什麼"},{"start":17041.277,"end":17055.834,"text":"因為我是沒有去細究我坦白講我現在在這裡我並不知道這樣的裁判是不是合理的但是我採信剛剛移情委員跟培育委員他們去研究過但外界可能也會有第一次看會覺得說為什麼是這樣罰這個你們要判斷跟強化說明一下"},{"start":17062.349,"end":17079.398,"text":"好 法治這邊是不是說明一下第四行那個章數是票券章數 不是票面章數第四行的章數是按票券對 章數是用票券票券章數好 林益錦委員"},{"start":17081.642,"end":17105.875,"text":"如果要有一些區隔因為有些賽事是其實是要是有錢的可是他可能有一些貴賓券或公關券那個是免錢的所以那個裁罰是適用前段那所以這個免費入場就是全面免費入場所以我說我覺得那如果要區隔是不是就將將全面免費入場之運動賽事後面用這樣來區隔"},{"start":17110.626,"end":17138.549,"text":"全面免費入場,全部不用錢的啦。這種的就是有社會法,就是每張一萬八以下的罰款。那如果說部分要錢,部分不用錢的,就試用它的那個前面的就是區塊多少錢,用區塊十至五十倍來罰。嗯。林議員建議後面那個加全面,就是全面免費的,前面那個比較像貴賓券拿去賣嗎?對。"},{"start":17140.137,"end":17161.53,"text":"全面 就是這條全部都不用寫啦剛剛署長建議要把那個全面刪掉的因為我們處理的是要買的但是有一部分是免費的公關票這是一種類型那另外一種就是說有一些賽事它是直接就開放外也是免費的"},{"start":17164.176,"end":17173.752,"text":"內也是要買票的,外也是免費索票的。就是不是全面,但是外也都免費。其實到說外也這種免費索票的到底要用前段來法還是後段來法?"},{"start":17178.212,"end":17200.028,"text":"如同剛法制說的若外也是免費就是過往的慣例就是這樣可是他要拿去賣的話那實務上他們會用後段來開罰對不對就會試用後面法制的意思是這樣對不對對就是部分免費也是試用後面前面就是貴賓券那種有價的免費票是前面然後部分免費或全面免費就是後面對"},{"start":17202.6,"end":17214.367,"text":"這樣解釋說明文字說明清楚一點就好啦那針對這個第二四條之一關於免費票券的黃牛罰款大家同意了嗎這個部分"},{"start":17219.645,"end":17240.974,"text":"報告主席確實我們因為今天是臨時寫這個條文我們要處理的有兩種類型的免費票一種就是前段的就是它全面是公開要賣票的但保留部分席次是臨遠的公關票就是放在前段但是剛剛提到的是全面或是部分免費進場的"},{"start":17242.415,"end":17264.793,"text":"他是制度性的部分免費進場所以我們是不是用這種方式來區隔前面跟後面就是全面跟部分免費進場的就後段好 林益金委員所以在立法說明真的要詳細寫清楚這是不是把那個說明的文字也寫出來說明文字是不是授權他們去寫啊"},{"start":17267.89,"end":17292.341,"text":"你是說現在就把將全面或部分這個放進去這樣子可能比較明確一點好不好如果沒有委員反對那個將全面或部分免費入場就是什麼外野免費或者是說像這次全面免費這樣就比較明確一點啦前面就是公關票或是貴賓票後面就是全面或什麼外野部分免費的"},{"start":17299.809,"end":17313.556,"text":"這樣大家OK嗎?在場的委員都OK?已經盡可能周延了啦。那有沒有人針對這個修正條文還有不同的意見要再修正?吳斯耀委員。"},{"start":17315.578,"end":17335.796,"text":"就是好這一個解決了嗎那剛剛我跟萬間委員講的就是合宜的讓渡他的票有合理的郵寄費手續費好那我們不糾結在這不入法的話因為事要版本是加第五項不入法的話我們請就你一個附帶決議好嗎針對這樣子的狀況避免去"},{"start":17341.813,"end":17354.94,"text":"負罰了善意的消費者,然後你們要訂定一個方式來處理,好不好?用一個附帶決議好不好?我想大家應該都支持,附帶決議,手續費的部分,附帶決議你們準備了嗎?合理的手續費跟郵寄費,它不是黃牛的行為。在寫了齁?對,正在寫了。"},{"start":17364.178,"end":17365.298,"text":"貨、活動、票券、定價、免費票券"},{"start":17395.356,"end":17408.622,"text":"獲活動免費票券定價販售者?內野要錢,外野不用錢的。他只有把外野的拿去賣才用後面的。內野的話就用前面的公開販售的。"},{"start":17412.263,"end":17419.546,"text":"我建議就是說你們法治大家再看一下確保我們等一下因為附帶決議還沒寫好我們先把今天還有兩個臨時提案處理完之後那邊附帶決議是不是寫好了我們再一起來確定一下修改的文字和附帶決議然後我們再通過那個部分還有立法說明也要請教育部這邊補充"},{"start":17441.173,"end":17447.585,"text":"我們現在處理臨時提案有委員提出臨時提案即兩案請宣讀第一案"},{"start":17448.689,"end":17464.115,"text":"近年來單側聽損對於單身人日常生活及學習之影響嚴重性逐漸受到重視為保障單側聽損者之權益並提供必要協助衛福部業已於110年放寬聽損標準並滾動式檢討單側聽損權益保障問題教育部也針對單側聽損學童提供必要協助與資源"},{"start":17473.218,"end":17501.652,"text":"然而與實際需求仍有相當落差有介於特教法已於112年修正全文並公佈施行然而身心障礙及資富優異學生鑑定辦法超過十年未曾修正為保障單冊聽損學童授教權提供資源及協助時有配合修正必要原請教育部研議將身心障礙及資富優異學生鑑定辦法"},{"start":17502.492,"end":17509.597,"text":"第五條有關聽覺障礙鑒定基準純聽音力檢查結果部分修正為一"},{"start":17535.295,"end":17553.832,"text":"針對臨時提案第一案委員有沒有任何的意見沒有沒有沒有意見那請教育部部長配合辦理好 配合辦理好 那我們第一案加入聯署好 加入聯署可以到前面來加入聯署所以第一案照案通過那我們臨時提案第二案"},{"start":17555.753,"end":17573.463,"text":"請宣讀。查2024臺維斯杯世界組總決賽資格戰將於明年2月3至4月登場。我國代表隊將在主場迎戰法國代表隊。此戰同時亦為對時首度前進臺維斯杯世界組總決賽資格戰。"},{"start":17576.164,"end":17595.512,"text":"然據了解網協目前無論就場地規劃保險事宜與出場費的細節均尚未與選手進行說明更遑論如何以宣傳製造主場優勢吸引觀眾入場之規劃。原此為確保選手權益與相關配套請教育部積極輔導中華民國網球協會規劃"},{"start":17599.374,"end":17610.602,"text":"並與參賽之職業選手溝通相關升級保險如運動員短期失能顯示儀並於售票狀況下依《國民體育法》第21條第5項推定體育團體舉辦或參與據收益之商業性賽會時應支付選手出賽費與選手集體協商相關出場費規劃同時亦應確保場地與觀眾席狀況"},{"start":17624.452,"end":17638.312,"text":"前述事項請於一個月內向本院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告提案人黃國蘇聯屬人陳佩玉、陳靜敏、范雲、吳思堯、林怡瑾、陳秀寶宣讀完畢"},{"start":17641.068,"end":17663.813,"text":"針對臨時提案第二案有沒有委員有補充意見?我先說明一下這個提案黃國樹委員請我幫忙說明就是希望體育署可以幫忙加強宣傳因為這個是台灣難得以來打到這麼好的成績那明年二月即將在台灣舉辦相關比賽那我相信一定又會再有更多球迷或者是小選手們、家長們會積極的參與所以這個部分就是要拜託體育署加強宣傳跟網協考慮票價合理性的部分以上"},{"start":17672.976,"end":17675.398,"text":"第二項有沒有委員有任何的新的修正動議?"},{"start":17700.013,"end":17708.678,"text":"一萬八千元前面按照體力加新台幣三個字。委員有沒有反對意見?沒有。那就加新台幣三個字。還有沒有其他的修正意見?"},{"start":17722.801,"end":17751.424,"text":"那個法制這邊說明一下因為這個條文是今天有一些實質比較大幅度的改變為其審慎記我們是不是大家再仔細的再確認一下立法的構想的前段是要處理那一種全面性公開販售的這一種這一種賽事所以說因為後面會夾雜一個叫做部分免費意味著就是部分還是公開販售"},{"start":17754.528,"end":17778.079,"text":"如果這樣真的要切清楚的話是不是前面第一項就前面這樣將全面公開販售這個就是指全部都要的但是這樣也不行因為你看還有一個叫部分公開販售的所以我們還是用公開販售就會包括全場都要也包括只賣內野的就在前段那在賣內野裡頭呢"},{"start":17780.322,"end":17802.714,"text":"如果是內野裡面賣的票裡頭又有公關票他如果用了這公關票去賣的話還是適用前段用那個公關票對應的區域的來罰他如果他把外野的免費所票的拿去賣就用後段來處一萬八以下另外是全面免費的也是用後段大概"},{"start":17803.715,"end":17806.136,"text":"將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券 已超過票面金額或將該運動賽事或活動"},{"start":17828.823,"end":17845.484,"text":"無票面金額票券定價販售者按票券張數由主管機關儲每張票面金額或無票面金額票券區域對照所應販售票面金額之十倍或五十倍罰款"},{"start":17847.367,"end":17861.602,"text":"將全面或部分免費入場之運動、賽事或活動免費票券定價販售者 按票券章數 由主管機關儲每張票券新台幣一萬八千元以下罰款有沒有任何的修正意見?"},{"start":17869.904,"end":17891.27,"text":"沒有的話我們就通過囉那這個立法說明請你們補充好嗎是不是授權給你們補充說明清楚盡快給我們這個秘書處這邊那附帶決議的部分你們準備好了嗎附帶決議的部分那是不是可以發給我們委員了"},{"start":17894.864,"end":17899.028,"text":"那附帶決議的部分在哪裡?附帶決議的部分也在螢幕上。是不是請委員簽一下,因為我們附帶決議的,就是剛剛講的那個手續費的部分。"},{"start":17919.096,"end":17921.357,"text":"請委員簽完之後我們再唸。請委員簽完之後我們再唸。"},{"start":17950.913,"end":17950.953,"text":"好了嗎?"},{"start":17981.186,"end":18002.588,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":18004.495,"end":18011.437,"text":"政府應致力於保障民眾觀賞運動、賽事或活動之權益以確保運動、賽事或活動票券正常流通並針對將運動、賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或定價販售者不含行為人自主"},{"start":18032.421,"end":18050.174,"text":"自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票捐而實際支出之合理手續費據。那個吳斯耀委員請發言。就是說政府要保障他的權益,確保他的政權有充滿,並針對將運動賽事活動...就是主詞有點怪啦,就是說..."},{"start":18060.346,"end":18078.54,"text":"將運動賽事照顧…好,我用最小幅度的改正,看可不可以。針對將這種販售者因不含行為人自主辦單位取得運動…實質不知合理手續費、頓耗、郵寄費還有郵寄費喔?還有一個什麼費?"},{"start":18081.499,"end":18092.662,"text":"就是說我轉給人家嘛,對不對?合理手續及郵寄費等或手續費等轉讓之合理手續或郵寄等費用對,就是說這個東西應該是包含之合理行為或什麼之這是一種可以接受行為,像什麼這樣?"},{"start":18117.705,"end":18125.311,"text":"因不含行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票券而實際支出之合理手續費或郵寄費等費用。"},{"start":18138.234,"end":18140.094,"text":"這樣可以嗎?這樣好像蠻清楚的自主辦都會取得寫的是我的那個意思嗎?可是問題是你要針對就是針對這個超過就是要處分他們嘛不函不函這些人不函後面這些人所以你針對這個要幹嘛?你沒有寫啊"},{"start":18169.076,"end":18176.299,"text":"我們這個體育署這個文字的能力可以加強一下 對不對 這個的確有這個問題耶針對將運動賽事或運動賽事以熱忱對 針對這個應該要 要怎麼樣 針對他們予以什麼 對對對對啊"},{"start":18192.639,"end":18199.106,"text":"政府應致力於保障民眾觀賞運動賽事或活動之權益,以確保運動賽事或活動票券正常流通,針對將刪除。"},{"start":18214.468,"end":18216.25,"text":"針對運動賽事或活動票券已超過票面金額或定價販售之計算。"},{"start":18231.658,"end":18257.25,"text":"之計算 可以改成之裁罰樣態嗎?因為我們要講的是裁罰樣態吧?那個 法制 我們要講的是裁罰樣態 對嗎?你說他的計算的金額要把那個那個合理手續費扣掉嗎?不是不是 我們要講的是他們在轉讓 我要把票轉給陳秀寶委員然後扣 我花了手續費嘛我去iBone領票或是我郵寄這個費用的裁罰樣態當我加在這個票裡面其實是不在裁罰樣態裡面所以應該要把那個者"},{"start":18260.212,"end":18274.983,"text":"訂價之販售者的那個者改成財閥樣態應不含這些這些這些這樣才對吧?就是這種人啊我是買了票不能去看啊就是寫的跟這個完全無關啊是另外一個樣態啊不是不是我們講的就是法治表這種無關的說這樣"},{"start":18284.591,"end":18303.95,"text":"我們這個附帶決議基本上就是說我們要裁罰黃牛者可是這些黃牛不含這些合理的手續費跟郵寄費用多增加的錢比票面券多增加的錢如果多增加的是郵寄費跟合理的手續費這是不屬於黃牛的樣態我們這個附帶決議是要表達這個意思耶"},{"start":18308.955,"end":18322.995,"text":"就是我是善良老百姓我今天買了票我今天要約會不能去看了我把它賣給林怡瑾我不是去賺暴利嘛我是賺給我的好朋友可是我要用快遞寄給他所以我要多收他快遞錢70塊"},{"start":18326.35,"end":18340.604,"text":"我這種行為不叫黃牛我這種行為叫做我合理的轉讓我已經購入的票好 那如果是這樣的話是運動賽事或票券這個就都沒有喔就是將運動賽事或活動票券加計"},{"start":18351.713,"end":18370.502,"text":"行為人質巴拉巴拉巴拉的合理費用轉讓票券者非屬文法所定黃牛行為。是這個意思嗎?這個太樣就不是黃牛行為。對,對,對,這樣運動是...等一下,你的文字先改一下,我看一下。"},{"start":18372.176,"end":18372.637,"text":"加計將運動賽事獲票券收取。"},{"start":18387.133,"end":18413.881,"text":"去郵寄又花了一百五十塊所以我就收你三千一百五十塊委員的意思是說這個不是黃領嘛這是善意的轉讓而已嘛那我們就講說將運動賽事或活動票件然後加計收取然後呢那個後面都不要了對加收取然後刪到那個行為人的前面刪掉"},{"start":18416.178,"end":18423.5,"text":"加計收取行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事票券而實際支出之合理所需費或郵寄費等費用"},{"start":18442.881,"end":18443.361,"text":"針對善意轉讓票券者鬥點"},{"start":18472.309,"end":18484.816,"text":"如果我們裡面沒有用黃牛對 那個主持剛講那個黃牛行為就是我們剛講不再裁髮樣態就是非屬本條裁髮之狀態啊我們黃牛是俗稱嘛對非屬本條本相裁髮之樣態之類的本法規範之裁髮樣態啦非屬本法規範之裁髮樣態啦對 不要用黃牛"},{"start":18501.804,"end":18525.729,"text":"本法非屬本法規範之財法樣態。非屬本條例規範之非法加價販售行為。我好想把善意轉讓四個字放進去。就方艾前我剛剛講的針對"},{"start":18530.131,"end":18551.569,"text":"法律上有善意轉讓這四個字嗎?因為這樣在執行上不要再加善意了好不好二義善意這樣太多了就手續費這些就好了啦好因為我們這是附帶決議喔這個已經花了很多時間了大家看一下是不是然後已經簽的就簽了齁到時候再文字加價的加寫錯了齁"},{"start":18554.79,"end":18558.513,"text":"加價販售非屬本條例規範之加價販售裁罰樣態。"},{"start":18571.394,"end":18589.549,"text":"那我們現在就通過待會大家補簽那剛剛條文也通過了我提醒一件事情好不好署長跟部長在這裡因為今天有幾位委員都有講到實名制的部分那現在文化部對於實名制他還是就是鼓勵不強制"},{"start":18590.41,"end":18604.226,"text":"那我覺得你們要這樣子去學習他們的經驗然後呢我要說的是在這裡文化部端了一個要點叫做文化部鼓勵流行音樂現場演出實施票券實名制補助作業要點"},{"start":18605.307,"end":18622.851,"text":"你們要做一個體育署針對體育的這種票券實施實名制的補助樣點你要有這個要點才能夠真的去鼓勵他們只要你們用實名制我有鼓勵的行政措施大家才會慢慢地聽上來幫委員這個已經存在了你們存在?已經有了你們那個叫什麼?我們從來不知道運產運動產業輔導講座辦法裡面就有這個嗎?我們運產條例底下的執法我們已經訂了那你們給我們看一下好不好?"},{"start":18635.333,"end":18662.388,"text":"那但是你們什麼時候頒布的顯然沒有起什麼聯誼跟效用啊要不然怎麼會大家都還講說你們要不要做實名制呢如果你早有這件事情了那應該是文化部選你們了報告委員其實在106年那時候也是大院這邊修正運產條例當時在第八條的條文就有授權一個執法叫講出辦法講出你們包含"},{"start":18663.768,"end":18684.557,"text":"其他項這邊就可以做處理但是你們有嗎?有包含鼓勵實名制嗎?現在有做嗎?有在裡面嗎?跟委員報告其實我們在動識圈的ABI借接只要廠商他跟我們ABI借接系統需要改善我們就已經做處理就有講住了你在說的是另外一件事我在說實名制的"},{"start":18686.464,"end":18713.512,"text":"賣票是不是要實名制這件事情你們現在有補助嗎有補助給主辦這種賽事的人他只要用實名制販售票有給補助嗎跟委員報告現在就是母法只要一通過我們用講注辦法就可以所以現在有沒有放進去嗎其他項在那個條文裡面其他項就可以那條文裡面很多包括其他對不對我聽懂了那署長麻煩你就把其他裡面加一個鼓勵"},{"start":18715.706,"end":18737.321,"text":"舉辦實名制的賽會叫OK?這樣才叫做有回應我們說的了解這是我們對文化部也是一樣的要求啦你們要去鼓勵獎勵啦好不好好那謝謝吳思耀委員的意見喔那我們今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝前提下"},{"start":18737.961,"end":18758.02,"text":"文字、條字及標點符號為統一體例授權議事人員修改列入紀錄,位於採納條文授權議事人員確認。因為時間很趕,請立法說明的部分讓我們比較關注的委員能夠看過之後,是不是能夠今天下班前送到議事人員這裡,因為這樣時間才來得及。"},{"start":18761.643,"end":18778.278,"text":"關於今天會議我們做如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":18780.04,"end":18786.283,"text":"運動產業發展條例相關草案已全部審查完略不須交由黨團協商並按領據審查報告並於12月7日提請院會討論。院會討論時由范昭吉委員允補充說明"},{"start":18796.202,"end":18816.179,"text":"附帶決議的部分二十四條之一附帶決議提案人范雲、林怡瑾、陳培瑜、陳秀寶、吳思瑤請問各提案如果有委員要補充的話再補充報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位真的大家辛苦了我們拍個照吧都那個還沒吃飯到快兩點了"},{"start":18824.745,"end":18826.186,"text":"來來來來來來來來辛苦辛苦"},{"start":18840.052,"end":18855.508,"text":"一、二、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}