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發言"},{"start":1556.069,"end":1579.68,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝昭偉有關今天要審查的法案本席大方向都支持好 隨興請教循序部朱次長次長你好你對有關有關公務員員退休的年金的改革你業務應該很熟吧 對不對還好還好啊 這麼謙虛啊"},{"start":1581.73,"end":1595.567,"text":"太謙虛了這一次的上次的整個公教的退休年金的改革產生哪些效益也產生了哪些後遺症"},{"start":1597.466,"end":1599.047,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":1618.098,"end":1620.779,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":1647.253,"end":1670.939,"text":"基本上這個新的年輕制度讓這個財務可以永續經營對公務員以後擔任公務員會比較好那你說後遺症基本上就是有些人可能覺得他將來退休要到65歲才能退他可能覺得說那這樣子我可能待太久了他可能就有考慮"},{"start":1671.459,"end":1672.039,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案"},{"start":1691.187,"end":1718.262,"text":"不是後遺症,你這個還正面效益啊?是吧?現象!你輕忽這個現象我看過你的資歷,你還長期在教育部門你為國家人才引進,第一個,工人員老化第二個,很多人不願意參加政府的考試進到政府部門來這怎麼會只是個現象?"},{"start":1721.866,"end":1722.226,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":1741.894,"end":1742.854,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":1770.089,"end":1796.002,"text":"請教您在這一次的公務員員年金改革的過程當中有沒有哪一類人員是出賣沒有進行鄉外改革這一次年金改革影響最小應該是軍人吧不是我你都沒有針對我問題到是哪一些人沒有哪一類的人員沒有這一次沒有改革到"},{"start":1798.746,"end":1799.607,"text":"我問哪一類的人在改革的時候這一次除外?"},{"start":1820.174,"end":1821.035,"text":"這次法官有沒有改革到"},{"start":1839.205,"end":1865.718,"text":"報告委員法官有改革到啊因為法官的退休金齁就是跟一般公務員一樣的的這個是也就是跟跟著公務員退休之前撫恤法確定對啊好請教你先一個法官退休退休金多少呃退休金大概就是要看他的年資齁好跟他最後的13、14值等法官退休總數可以領到多少退休金"},{"start":1866.365,"end":1893.513,"text":"報告委員我們現在法官沒有值等我們現在是用縫級我們法官總共分24級然後最資深的法官是第一級沒關係我們比較一般公務員我們時間快到了大概是八萬多塊啦多少八萬多塊就是所得替代率也差不多就是剛才總數啦我是講總數你不要再講一部分對啊法官的退休金之外法官因為一直在法官法法官有一個退養金司法官有退養金那兩個加起來多少"},{"start":1894.413,"end":1919.105,"text":"如果是一級八百鳳點目前八百鳳點退休的大概是差不多十七八萬左右對十七八萬嘛對不對好那為什麼這一部分就沒改那為什麼一般一般的一般事務官做到十四指等現在大概六萬多市長這個公不公平"},{"start":1920.896,"end":1926.859,"text":"市長我覺得你這個政府官的稱職都不講真話都替執政黨在護航做得不錯你這個政府官標準的政府官不講真話的政府官我這樣的評論你贊不贊成我沒辦法贊成沒辦法贊成這是事實啊你不講真話"},{"start":1950.779,"end":1955.5,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查"},{"start":1980.776,"end":1980.856,"text":"主席"},{"start":1998.098,"end":2012.713,"text":"法官依照憲法保障是終身職,司法官檢察官也一樣,其實沒有退休的概念,所以我們不向公務員借零退休,65歲就一定要退好,這個我贊成,但有必要是我們這個做得不錯的政府次長的三杯嘛,你知道合不合理?"},{"start":2022.478,"end":2023.259,"text":"市長你沒有講總數啊?那個是又退休分嗎?"},{"start":2049.037,"end":2076.768,"text":"對啊!他還是一推胸縫啊!他還講那個關寶元老幾父,那是一次提走的。那多少錢?那個應該兩、三百萬啊。對啊!兩、三百萬啊。我只是說,這個蔡政府做年金改革的時候啊,就把那個,這個把他不想改的切出去啊。市長,這樣合不合理?制度不一樣,對不對?"},{"start":2077.773,"end":2078.393,"text":"謝謝鄭明聰總導接下來請鄭苑朋委員發言"},{"start":2102.595,"end":2131.074,"text":"主席各位同仁各位同仁大家好那首先請教一下林智嘉秘書長這個我們組織法的修正那要把我們的公費助理的部分那把它明確讓他有文康補助費然後跟健檢的費用那這個是我們上一次在質詢的時候也有很多人委員問到嘛沒錯根據職業安全衛生法二十條的規定是不是本來我們就應該編列"},{"start":2134.475,"end":2141.649,"text":"本來沿著上我們上次因為在第八屆的時候"},{"start":2143.151,"end":2144.172,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":2163.911,"end":2188.438,"text":"那我聽起來大概也沒有特別委員對這一筆文康費跟健檢的費用有特別的意見畢竟職業安全衛生法就有規定一般僱主也有編列是啦那現在我是建議說我提一個修正動議比較細緻化看我們立法院這邊覺得OK不OK因為你有編列就要有領嘛那立法院立委的助理我認為"},{"start":2190.475,"end":2190.575,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":2220.735,"end":2248.895,"text":"我們對於他們的助理怎麼領對於怎麼領你們有沒有想法一般公司可能就是從什麼輔委會所以他這裡其實他那個修法我們有提出一個修正意見也就是說我們這一些細節還是要我們來定定但是弄一個實施日期細節是你覺得是你們定我們的建議是既然有助理工會有工會定你覺得可不可以"},{"start":2249.369,"end":2273.612,"text":"助理工會訂我覺得還是比較不好有些公司他們是由輔委會或公會去訂然後去跟他申請他比較瞭解勞工的狀況如果是你們訂你們就要負這個權責我也不認為助理工會會上下其手或有什麼弊端你們想看看不是我覺得我們應該承擔這個責任所以由我們來訂"},{"start":2275.628,"end":2292.521,"text":"訂完之後,助理工會當然他有定期會改選,因為我們如果由立法院把它訂好的話,因為他是屬於比較穩定,就我們按照這個來進行,會比較那個,我覺得會對於"},{"start":2298.123,"end":2298.283,"text":" （三（併案"},{"start":2316.783,"end":2317.303,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2337.625,"end":2362.091,"text":"那接下來要請勞動部的黃專門委員來跟你請教一下現在我們今天有委員提案那他要修正公教人員的保險法第36條的生育給付放寬的條件那他也是比照其他職業類別的條件因為像農保國民年金保險法都沒有那個時間別"},{"start":2363.643,"end":2364.283,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2393.66,"end":2396.322,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2411.938,"end":2437.2,"text":"跟委員報告就是說我們國家的這個各社會保險是按照職域的不同有不同的一個相關的一個規定所以它的勤領條件、幾付標準這一些都是不一樣的那今天有關這個公保法要刪除這個日數這個規定因為這個是涉及公保的一個規定我們是尊重公保"},{"start":2438.542,"end":2461.684,"text":"主管機關全序部的一個意見那至於在勞保部分委員可能比較關切就是說是不是這邊刪掉那是不是我們勞保這邊還保留我們的這個給付的這個日數的話那會不會有一些問題那跟委員報告就是說其實公務人員跟我們勞保他的一個適用的對象是不一樣"},{"start":2462.705,"end":2463.525,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2482.312,"end":2482.572,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案"},{"start":2498.064,"end":2498.685,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":2514.804,"end":2516.726,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2530.705,"end":2558.801,"text":"跟委員報告因為勞保我現在有一個規定就是說保險本來是在保這個在職保險有效期間發生事故那我現在勞保有一個另外的一個規定這是一個特例就變成說我今天如果是在保險有效期間懷孕那即使你退保後一年內我還可以讓你有符合我們加保日數的話你還是可以享有我勞保的一個給付"},{"start":2560.162,"end":2561.384,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2573.464,"end":2597.697,"text":"所以我認為本來那個時間點就有點問題啦齁那如果我剛講的如果你不在勞保這邊領他就在國民年金這邊領對政府來說他還是有的領嘛他並不是沒的領所以只有你勞保這邊有防弊條款假設啦齁我先稱呼他防弊條款因為你剛講說不在我的這個職業保險類別的身份裡面去懷孕了我就不給付所以你增加這個其實當年為什麼這樣訂應該是怕說他來吃保費啦"},{"start":2598.217,"end":2601.12,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2614.301,"end":2636.923,"text":"根據我的瞭解好像這個是...是沒有歧視嗎?你雇主可能會先去探一下,但是對於說有沒有懷疑,第一個你也不一定知道啦。第二個你會歧視啊,你涉及歧視的可能性嘛,所以應該也不至於啦。所以如果我的建議啊,我今天有附帶決議是,要求行政院這邊你們把勞保的部分也廢掉。"},{"start":2637.824,"end":2639.205,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2662.154,"end":2684.038,"text":"我們現在勞保條件,理論上來說職業別不應該有差異,當然他薪資結構什麼都有不一樣,那是你在保險的那個給付的,跟繳費的這個本質上面去做。但是如果你職業別不一樣,說軍公教也拿掉了,他們就沒有防避條款,沒有這個時間限制,勞保有,那你對勞工特別歧視,這個也不對。"},{"start":2685.658,"end":2685.978,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":2702.091,"end":2702.411,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案"},{"start":2723.37,"end":2723.65,"text":"江永昌委員"},{"start":2750.681,"end":2775.801,"text":"就交於移民署長請問一下立法委員可不可以有外國籍立法委員不可以有外國籍規定在哪裡他現在是國籍法第20條相關規定好那就很奇怪齁其實你要知道但為什麼這次總統副總統有沒有外國籍社會嘩然他最後有去查證你知道為什麼難道也是看國籍法嗎事實上他前面這裡有一個"},{"start":2777.605,"end":2801.572,"text":"總統副總統他的選拔法當中直接就在裡面寫不可以具有外國籍那麼在他們要登記的時候就直接授權主管機關或中選會相關機關可以去做查證也就是說他兩個加起來他當然有國籍法可是他前面一開始在總統副總統選拔法當中就告訴你明白告訴你不行那立法院是公職嗎"},{"start":2803.12,"end":2804.461,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查"},{"start":2826.004,"end":2846.386,"text":"但是又沒有授權你啦沒有像總統副總統選罷法當中直接規定的所以就沒有授權你去查所以我們搞什麼你知道嗎我們搞竊結書啊這很不好就是說我不曉得就是說為什麼我們這麼長久以來其實以前也有立法委員發生過"},{"start":2847.936,"end":2869.756,"text":"結果我告訴你後來一追下去之後他所有的刑事判決違照文書不起訴我就不要講哪個立法委員前任立法委員利用職務榨取財務罪無罪然後行政上面請求返還他任內的薪資助理費補助費奉給給付等等法院都判不必返還"},{"start":2871.152,"end":2873.453,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查"},{"start":2899.557,"end":2901.818,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2917.722,"end":2919.103,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":2944.733,"end":2969.146,"text":"我們有授權立法院查證的時候反而變成立法院來為立法委員是否具有外國籍來背書是怕這個嗎還是怕人力物力耗費頗大我們做不完嗎其實我剛剛講光是付出去的幾副沒有追回來那個錢就很多拿來辦這些行動用我說也許不要擴大到所有的民選公職國會這一層一定要把關注請回答我那個江委員原則上是這樣子對立法委員原則上他是應該"},{"start":2972.95,"end":2973.25,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":2996.308,"end":3024.055,"text":"幾屆立委時未取得國籍他如果是勾說是的我就是這樣子這是我的承諾我們你們給人家勾兩條一個是勾說你是不是有外國籍另外你們給人家勾的選項就是說如果你有的話請你去放棄然後你一年之內有沒有這也是依照法規規定的民主黨你聽我講權衡輕重你就會發現了當我們民選公子你說用信任"},{"start":3024.855,"end":3025.836,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查"},{"start":3041.835,"end":3065.353,"text":"那坦白講他們也不是授權查證欸,是靠拒絕書。所以我說連我們立委都靠竊竊,公務機關對公務員制裁就有外國籍,不得任用、撤銷任用。他也在那邊搞說要拒絕。那至少人家還要追還喔,萬一你被檢舉查出來會追還。我們也是追還喔,我們也是追喔。你用哪一條追還?我們也是向法律...沒有沒有沒有,我剛講某位前立委。我知道。"},{"start":3068.965,"end":3086.481,"text":"法院沒有判他還,但是我們有去追。這是兩回事。法律有站在你這一邊你才追得到,法律不站在你這一邊,我剛剛講了,他不管是偽造文書跟榨取財物都是無罪。因為他至少是欺騙我們嘛。他至少是欺騙我們啊。我認為立法委員來國會服公職。"},{"start":3094.232,"end":3117.558,"text":"不是靠立法院秘書長、立法院院長、副院長對立法委員的信任,不是不是,那是糟蹋國會尊嚴啦。我覺得其實應該大方授權,不要去擔心說你怕說到時候去外國政府不配合或什麼的,反而你授權我查證結果我查不出來,反而變成你的背書,我認為不要去擔心這個,該做的事情就要做。"},{"start":3118.117,"end":3131.99,"text":"不是,我想那個委員,我們也很想做,但是這個一定是有它的執行上的困難,因為如果我們變成一個查證機構的話,那我們要有很多權力。"},{"start":3133.257,"end":3133.957,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3152.069,"end":3153.511,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":3168.49,"end":3171.273,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3186.886,"end":3208.079,"text":"但坦白講回頭我當然考量到說每個公務人員都要去查查不完但是連立法委員就這麼樣113個席次我們立法院自己公然跟人家講我們做不到然後每次都是有問題的時候對不對大家來推諉我認為這樣不對我也沒有擴及到全部的民選公職啊"},{"start":3209.724,"end":3213.445,"text":"每一個立法委員身為中華民國立法委員對國家應有的責任對國家應有的義務對自己應該有的要求啊"},{"start":3231.491,"end":3259.904,"text":"對阿,所以他就是,他必須以照實以告阿他如果沒有他就要講沒有阿他如果欺騙他就是欺騙行為他要負責阿他負什麼責?他當然要負責阿,他就是欺騙行為我沒有去告他阿最後你免除他職務的時候他什麼罪都沒有阿怎麼會沒有罪?誤罪,你去看那個判決,判決的誤罪那個是,那個當然他的判決是那樣子當然我們是不是對他的判決就是"},{"start":3261.505,"end":3261.945,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3278.03,"end":3298.431,"text":"國家安全國家責任立法委員義務還是你是站在人力物力不足無從查證還是你擔心說我查了如果沒查好反而會是幫他們背書但是你不能全部丟給就是說你們對我信任啊不能這樣子啦我是覺得這個這個"},{"start":3300.797,"end":3304.44,"text":"是像我們這樣的處理我是覺得可能在整個規劃裡面會變成一個"},{"start":3308.649,"end":3331.081,"text":"可以說是可以執行而且也是可以相當適合的一個方式那我問你每次你們每次但是總是發生事情的時候你們就會新聞相關單位去查了新聞外交部外管從這個當然有人質疑的時候我們都會去查那我現在就告訴你我現在就要請教您"},{"start":3332.674,"end":3357.704,"text":"以後是怎麼樣?好不要說今天湯惠正、林思敏、江永昌今天問一問新聞寫出來了我說你們以後啟動對我們的信任調查是靠什麼要件?你總要有一個機制吧你也不是說今天院長、副院長、秘書長高興了這個人新聞很大查一下或者這個人新聞很大沒關係這只是道聽途說那個人其實我們有所懷疑"},{"start":3358.484,"end":3383.119,"text":"不會吧?你不會是靠這個吧?那你至少告訴我,如果你都只靠信任,只靠竊竊,我沒有擴及到全部的公務員,我沒有擴及到全部的民選公職,我現在就講113席的立法委員,包括政府院長,你總要有一個你的SOP是什麼吧?就是說當什麼事情到什麼時候,我們那張竊竊書形同廢紙,那我們又沒有授權給你們的時候,你們是依照什麼東西去查我們?"},{"start":3384.139,"end":3412.603,"text":"還是說不是靠你們查是靠內政部依照國籍法當中我們不可以認公職內政部啟動調查我不曉得因為在立法院根據公職人員選報法當中沒有立法院的規則沒有回頭來看就是一個國籍法連公務人員認用法28條第一項第二款也都與我們是有距離的那你沒辦法你沒標準"},{"start":3413.547,"end":3422.204,"text":"你沒有作業規範那我都不知道啦我今天就在這邊我說我懷疑湯惠珍跟林思敏啊我今天就在這裡講啊好了講完了咧"},{"start":3425.696,"end":3451.213,"text":"這要對全體國人來負責每一次我知道那如果說你要立法院去查查證不是不是至少也要有一個法令依據讓我們有最簡單我們不是寫切結書給你們我們寫授權書給你們就好像總統副總統他們寫的就是授權書那你知道我們公務人員體系公務人員任用法第28條"},{"start":3452.745,"end":3472.642,"text":"如果碰到第一項第二款的時候有沒有不得外國籍的他們是寫拒絕書我知道那個範圍都比較大因為非常多人不可能逐一去查但是起碼國會自律以後立委關於外國國籍不是寫切結書給你們那個信任是假的嗎因為就是有人犯錯犯過"},{"start":3474.366,"end":3476.008,"text":"委員黃世杰等16人等17人分別擬具"},{"start":3490.819,"end":3515.056,"text":"我覺得我們對立法委員的信任這個信任我覺得還是非常重要因為你當一個立委你被人民所附託你當然要誠實以告連你這個誠實都沒有我覺得當然你就變成欺騙我們是你欺騙我們所以我是覺得如果用這個竊決書的方式我是覺得事實上"},{"start":3515.816,"end":3540.714,"text":"對於立法委員的尊重還有對於整個執行上面我覺得目前來講應該還是一個最好的方式。參議員長我的重點是這個單一立法委員不值得信任那不值得信任是立法委員的問題啊我把這句話講完但整體的過會值得人民信賴所以不要發生事情的時候立法院來發一個新聞稿說那個立法委員他竊竊寫假的謝謝大家"},{"start":3543.144,"end":3567.246,"text":"不是把我們信賴的是國會阿我跟你講立法委員各區域包含部分區百工百業行行色色各樣的民眾大家不同的角度選擇出來的民意代表對不對我講我們現在是排黑排得很嚴重但是過去也有跟深人當選立法委員嘛有的東西不是靠信任阿"},{"start":3568.167,"end":3583.238,"text":"我們要信任的是國會啊我們要信賴國會啊不是說靠你們對靠立法院秘書長對立法委員的切結書你不是信任我啊國會所以你要維持國會所以您是不是應該要維持我們的國會被民眾信任當然是嘛我是基於這一點啊是啊那我們現在目前所做的方式就是這樣子啊"},{"start":3596.468,"end":3598.549,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3617.859,"end":3619.04,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3639.418,"end":3640.839,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3656.684,"end":3657.564,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3683.953,"end":3685.674,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3703.63,"end":3721.077,"text":"國安的層次甚至是這個國家的義務跟責任以及國會的信賴國會的信任這不該只是靠那一張切結那再研究看看再想想看那個委員原則上我也感謝你的發言事實上你所提的任何的一些"},{"start":3721.757,"end":3746.345,"text":"議件包括立法院的一些條例那個我其實我都長久以來我都非常佩服因為我覺得你常常都看到一些我們沒有看到但是針對這一個部分你所提的那個意見原則上我還是會把它接納而且我們也會回去好好再想除了切結之外是不是還有更好的方式來做這樣子的問題"},{"start":3747.005,"end":3747.485,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3769.773,"end":3798.699,"text":"發現了原來他任用時一具外國籍這種東西他被這個什麼他被那個撤銷任用的時候他是要追還幾戶喔這個在我們立法院立法委員就算被發現說結果原來你就職了你也沒什麼一年內放棄什麼的這個你去查一下因為我最後看到的是我們雖然要追但是與法無拒是沒什麼可以追所以這一點也很重要謝謝謝謝委員你提出這一點那這樣子的話"},{"start":3799.477,"end":3825.164,"text":"事實上您講的這一些事情的話我們會好好的研究一下也許你這樣的意見還有將來我們如果說他真的是等於是欺瞞我們造成這個他本身就是說本來就有外國籍那這樣子的話我們將來要追討他的一些心之奉祥等等也有一個依據"},{"start":3826.184,"end":3854.24,"text":"所以這個我覺得這個一併我們來把它考量因為這次的事件傷害很深啊人家說你有沒有外國籍他說原來已經在立法院做部分具還讓子彈飛了兩個禮拜在那邊講來講去這沒有道理這對國會的形象有沒有這個其實是傷害很大事實上好啦我覺得我們還是接納那個委員的意見我們來好好考慮一下我想很多我們的國民說原來是切結喔"},{"start":3855.71,"end":3861.753,"text":"我非常感謝委員您所提出的這個善意的一個建議而且你這個建議的確也值得我們深思來考慮那好我們會把它納入來考慮也許如果"},{"start":3882.563,"end":3907.222,"text":"找到一個更好的方法,我們會來做處理。謝謝委員。好,謝謝江永超委員。那下一位請我們的抓委,我們顏世明委員發言。好,謝謝主席。我還是先救蕭秘書長。是。署長,我想就今天的立法院組織法三十二條的修正,那秘書長也支持啦。我支持,我支持。非常感謝。我感謝,感謝那個抓委你排這個議程。"},{"start":3908.743,"end":3929.253,"text":"那我想這個但是現在就是說就是它的實施的日期啊那民主黨有提出修正動議嗎?到底我們現在是要從明年還是後年開始?我們是因為今年是來不及嘛然後最快就是從那個我們這裡的修正動議有提出是在"},{"start":3931.141,"end":3932.402,"text":"一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、"},{"start":3947.498,"end":3954.3,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":3971.044,"end":3979.087,"text":"職業災害保險及保護法也已經於去年的5月1日開始施行,擴大勞工的職業災害保險對象,為持續降低我國的職場危害風險。請問勞動部職安署對三安有提出什麼樣的政策推動?"},{"start":3995.811,"end":3996.572,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":4017.659,"end":4028.327,"text":"華澳主席,主席針對我們那個勞動部針對降災的一些策略的部分目前我們治安署針對所有適用治安法的一些勞工針對減災的部分我們針對2024年到2030年"},{"start":4034.651,"end":4037.332,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案"},{"start":4064.184,"end":4064.364,"text":"議員是專委嗎?"},{"start":4084.555,"end":4110.943,"text":"我是副組長副組長喔對你在這個職安署是不是在去年有推動111年職場安全衛生減災重點策略去年有實施那我們針對於明年的一些規劃的部分也有一定的相關的一些策略所以每一年都訂定相關的減災策略嗎是我想請問你那你去年實際執行的成效如何去年有沒有統計"},{"start":4112.742,"end":4114.363,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4124.479,"end":4148.649,"text":"這部分抱歉,因為我可能要找一些相關的資料,因為這部分不是我這邊管的。是320人,比前一年多了很多,就創6年來的新高,比2021年增加42人。所以我想問的是說,你這個雖然有這個減災的策略,但是看起來完全沒有成效。"},{"start":4150.728,"end":4173.675,"text":"你這個策略沒有達到它應有的成效。既然你要去部長講出三安的一個政策,但是看起來你推動的策略並沒有達到它一個成效。你知道我們在111年12月29日訂定的職場安全健康提升策略,那個策略的內容你知道嗎?"},{"start":4174.877,"end":4194.138,"text":"這部分大概是針對一些高風險行業的部分我們有一些專案的一些監督檢查的一些計畫那健康的部分我們也大概針對於譬如說針對化學品的一些高風險的一些事業單位的部分我們有針對這一部分去做一個專案的檢查"},{"start":4195.84,"end":4196.081,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4214.204,"end":4214.564,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":4234.713,"end":4260.626,"text":"主長我想這個就是說你們是很注重一個加強安全衛生的監督檢查效能但是今年的我們發生了民洋大火那我們就看出說整個對於職災的預防我們的檢查還有監督的效能並沒有達到它一定的成效其實我想告訴我們勞動部的是說這個勞動工作者因為工作犧牲不是簡單一個統計數字這麼簡單"},{"start":4263.527,"end":4268.468,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案"},{"start":4289.634,"end":4290.035,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":4298.15,"end":4326.24,"text":"根據媒體報導司法官學院接獲五位女同學的指控一位男學員經常會在雙方互動時藉機肢體接觸最誇張的是有一次學員之間外出用餐這位男學員A原本坐在女同學的右手邊卻不斷站起來假意要和另一邊的男同學搭肩導致女學員被迫靠在A的懷裡除此之外A在講話時還緊靠女生的臉"},{"start":4327.6,"end":4356.209,"text":"那麼據悉被害人原本認為大家將來都要在司法界並肩作戰並沒有太大的反應但是這一盤學員看不下去以手機錄影存證並持檔案和司法事務界討論有司法官看過之後直言實在很噁心還有法界人士評價該男學員很可能就是刻意為之來騷擾女同學所以我想請問對於這個事件司法官學員"},{"start":4357.449,"end":4379.213,"text":"有關這個性平教育的課程安排的如何?上課的方式為何?報告那個委員就是委員所提的這個事件司法官學院這邊已經進行內部的調查已經在調查的程序當中那性平的部分因為是一個很重要的這個議題所以在那個司法官學院的整個培訓的過程當中我們有納入相關的這個課程那發生這個事情確實我們也覺得很遺憾那相關的這個部分學院這邊會持續的調查"},{"start":4388.316,"end":4410.834,"text":"市長,這些都是准司法官,未來都是要去對相關的,不管是性騷擾案件,他都要有一個很正確的態度。還未擔任之前,就對這個性騷擾的觀念就已經有不正確。我們很擔心他未來擔任司法官,會做出偏頗的一個認定。"},{"start":4412.175,"end":4439.153,"text":"報告委員,我們都用最高的道德的標準在要求我們的這個司法的人員。我想信憑這部分希望在我們的整個未來的司法官學院的他的一個教育方面可能多加一點這種課程告訴我們這些準司法官信憑教育的重要性。是,謝謝委員。是,所以我們希望說司法單位都要更注重其內部的性別平等價值觀並加強相關的教育宣導。"},{"start":4440.194,"end":4441.055,"text":"湯惠貞昭委員"},{"start":4470.39,"end":4498.385,"text":"那先請教我們秘書長對,早上我們修的法那個我們是因為長期我們的這個國會助理的問題到這一次我們正式的想要把這個定一個法律的規範那因為這些國會助理我們是這四年來跟國會助理這個"},{"start":4499.69,"end":4500.991,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4517.401,"end":4522.022,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":4546.989,"end":4549.77,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案"},{"start":4576.599,"end":4581.904,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":4601.101,"end":4604.662,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4621.049,"end":4623.111,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4644.488,"end":4650.631,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4675.389,"end":4701.346,"text":"國會助理在履行職責的時候是不是受到適當的這樣的健康保障我想這一次大概會把它定下來是的會那個跟委員報告這個原則上我很認同委員所說的因為事實上我們國會助理這個這些助理們事實上對委員幫助很大而且他們也真的是我們國會裡面很重要的"},{"start":4703.267,"end":4727.577,"text":"．一．一,因為沒有他們事實上委員的問政還有各方面都會受到蠻多的一個限制所以我們怎麼樣子想辦法讓所有的這些國會助理他們能夠有更好的一個待遇或福利等等事實上我們真的也很希望來做"},{"start":4728.357,"end":4746.393,"text":"那麼只是因為現在國會助理他因為沒有具有公務人員身份所以在很多上面我們在處理上面事實上有他的困難所以這一次這個陳超明委員這個提案針對國會助理的這個"},{"start":4748.575,"end":4750.257,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查"},{"start":4767.369,"end":4790.445,"text":"我們現在想要把它回復一般來講如果我們沒有一個依據的話那事實上是跟以前是有干擱所以我們就想說利用這個法令來做處理那剛好我們上次在答詢的時候幾乎委員大概都有共識那我們就想說那我們趕快弄個"},{"start":4791.746,"end":4812.515,"text":"修正案然後讓他這個法制化然後就可以按照這個法制化就可以來編制預算然後合法的來處理所以我想今天大概就主要這個意思所以我想這個非常謝謝兩位召集委員這麼快的把他提出來那剛好那個有一個"},{"start":4813.716,"end":4839.276,"text":"陳超明委員有類似的提案那我們就用這個提案來為主體然後我們提修正案讓他來通過我們也希望這個今天大家能夠有共識然後這個透過大家共識然後看能不能不須協商不須黨團協商因為這個很單純啦那大家如果有共識就不須黨團協商那我們可以在這一任"},{"start":4840.137,"end":4849.355,"text":"也許下個禮拜我們就讓他三讀通過讓他把它完成那對這個工會助理也有一個交代我是這樣子來懇求大家"},{"start":4850.093,"end":4850.394,"text":"國會助理的任務"},{"start":4875.077,"end":4876.098,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4898.349,"end":4900.03,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查"},{"start":4920.962,"end":4921.302,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":4936.099,"end":4936.3,"text":"主席"},{"start":4954.318,"end":4956.94,"text":"公務人員保障及培訓委員會保障處處長公務人員的保障"},{"start":4981.053,"end":4981.394,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":4989.181,"end":4993.522,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":5019.178,"end":5043.784,"text":"每一個年度是不是給他們自己﹐內部自己去做加強訓練﹐對於自己本科﹐本科的﹐或者本處的﹐自己的目標、願景﹐每一年都給自己一次的這樣的一個教育訓練。我是覺得需要。常常看到某些單位﹐"},{"start":5045.185,"end":5047.267,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5065.674,"end":5080.385,"text":"報告委員我們的訓練進修法我們現在有分工保訓會的部分是負責公務人任用資格的取得的訓練包括初任考試入局人員訓練跟升官等的訓練"},{"start":5081.966,"end":5082.186,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案"},{"start":5102.065,"end":5104.627,"text":"我們都有,每年都有。我再請教司法院人事處長。"},{"start":5126.628,"end":5151.559,"text":"因為我們看到前幾天剛好好像是我們的法官訓練這個在受訓期間就挑戰我們的性貧性騷那個防治的問題這個退訓了嗎那幾個報告委員這個是法務部司法官學院是隸屬於法務部是是是那我們就請教法務部的檢察官"},{"start":5153.748,"end":5173.426,"text":"報告委員,針對委員所提的這個事件,司法官學院現在依照程序在進行調查中。那我們對於這個司法人員的道德標準,我們會用最高的道德標準來要求。那部長也在強調是我們對於這個絕對是我們希望是存優太烈,不允許這不適格的人員擔任這個司法職務。"},{"start":5174.927,"end":5176.448,"text":"司法院司法院"},{"start":5205.161,"end":5205.182,"text":"是處長嗎?"},{"start":5208.769,"end":5235.721,"text":"現在是法務部對不對?還是人事處我想請教人事處長應該是司法院的人事處長吧好我請教你因為現在我們有一個案子已經起訴三年了而且各交保兩百萬這個案子是大家都眼睛都注意到這個大案子但是一直都沒有進入審判"},{"start":5236.357,"end":5236.817,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5262.941,"end":5265.842,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5279.258,"end":5283.02,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5310.463,"end":5328.451,"text":"司法司務司長報告委員 虛擬貨幣不是法務部主管的不是我現在講一件事是要檢察官去做裁定現在這個案子是因為有一個凍結這個被騙資金的案例這個案子他因為個人被騙了以後這個積極的去"},{"start":5329.411,"end":5330.592,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":5350.575,"end":5351.256,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":5366.969,"end":5369.67,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查"},{"start":5385.555,"end":5389.96,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5408.539,"end":5413.826,"text":"報告委員因為委員您所提的可能是一個個案那部裡面我們對於那個具體的個案我們向來是不介入不干預不指導"},{"start":5424.702,"end":5430.706,"text":"那委員所講的這個案的情形因為我們不太瞭解說他是不是在偵查程序當中有做所謂的搜索或者是扣押那如果是做了扣押的話還要區分說這個扣押是針對得為證據之物或者是得沒收之物來做的這個扣押的程序那相關的這個如果是他是得沒收之物或者是所謂的這個將來得為證據之物的話他會不同程序的處理那虛擬貨幣假設是我們這邊做扣押的話那目前我們在這個12月底的時候我們有相關的一個平台"},{"start":5454.443,"end":5483.385,"text":"我們可以就是有關於這個入境跟出境我們都有相關的規範是可以管理但是因為對委員這個案的具體情況我們這邊比較不了解所以這個部分我們是不是會後可以再向委員這邊了解其實防護部你們部長都很清楚部長已經也我們經過這樣的一個機會也講了半天那等於說你再去問一下好不好問問我們那個科長他已經被我煩死了"},{"start":5484.684,"end":5499.411,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":5500.441,"end":5500.621,"text":"併案審查"},{"start":5518.114,"end":5518.314,"text":" （二、併案審查"},{"start":5541.258,"end":5541.778,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案"},{"start":5566.104,"end":5567.244,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":5591.954,"end":5593.975,"text":"議員黃世杰等16人、（三）委員黃世杰等16人分別擬具"},{"start":5617.662,"end":5617.702,"text":"檢察官"},{"start":5633.677,"end":5638.043,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查"},{"start":5649.019,"end":5650.5,"text":"．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查"},{"start":5671.769,"end":5689.491,"text":"不管是檢察官還是院長、法官還有懲戒法院的院長都可以做出這樣的事情可是上刑一定會下效我們昨天本席也出席了本黨的一個記者會就是因為衛福部秘書處的處長"},{"start":5691.906,"end":5695.89,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5715.409,"end":5727.298,"text":"第六條裏面已經沒有過去有的交質貪惰奢侈放蕩所以司令會我們不管是真的不管嗎?次長請講"},{"start":5732.568,"end":5736.072,"text":"公允服務法第五條公允服務法第五條"},{"start":5751.249,"end":5751.889,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5774.579,"end":5795.032,"text":"這個東西基本上就是說他的行為有沒有違反到公務我們主要是在乎就是說他的行為有沒有影響到公務您看有沒有影響到公務這位外遇對象根據這個處長的說法這個經常到他的辦公室來來蹭他是說是蹭網路個案狀況但這個個案這個狀況個案的狀況我們並不清楚"},{"start":5802.297,"end":5808.633,"text":"並不清楚,但是如果是報導屬實的話,你覺得我們公務員服務法有沒有規範到?"},{"start":5809.981,"end":5834.829,"text":"如果沒有規範到的話,我們要這個全序部設公務員服務法幹什麼啊?沒有用了嘛!還講了一大堆還不如以後就來一個攔路請願、下跪請願場所,就這樣子啊。這應該要有規範的,不是嗎?就是說他的行為影響到機關的聲譽,或者說影響到業務的推動,這部分當然有公務員服務法的規範。"},{"start":5835.595,"end":5851.249,"text":"你覺得這樣有沒有影響到機關的生育?這個社會來評價吧。社會評價,所以包括這個王必勝政務次長他在外,外遇生子,然後在外面還在遛小孩的這個事情,你也覺得沒有影響嗎?"},{"start":5852.37,"end":5856.433,"text":"我們現在就是有很多該作為或不作為,難道我們的首長、部會首長都不用去管嗎?我們秘書長,剛剛我一問他這個問題,他立刻就會告訴我,我們事後,發生了之後,我們發現這個問題之後,我們事後積極的處理,開了幾次會,找了哪些人來。"},{"start":5871.883,"end":5872.724,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":5887.367,"end":5910.537,"text":"公務員服務法我們尊重這個是個案我覺得你們要給一個態度否則真的我們有多少文官計10萬的文官都在看所有的法原來通通都是在治我們這些沒有辦法的人都是在渡這些高階的有辦法的人這是很不好的我最後其實"},{"start":5912.398,"end":5912.698,"text":"三、併案審查"},{"start":5929.395,"end":5938.038,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查七、併案審查八、併案審查十、併案審查九、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查十、併案審查"},{"start":5953.903,"end":5981.369,"text":"但是內政部他們在這個時候在今年他們其實警政署規劃了有40個人要調升為警監職務就刑事、航空、國道、公路等相關主管有40個人但是你們只合了兩個就是刑事局的科技犯罪防治中心主任跟刑事鑑識中心主任要40個給兩個會不會太苛刻了"},{"start":5985.145,"end":6004.036,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":6004.196,"end":6031.715,"text":"市長因為現在我們在地方上面包括我們有叫做小聯盟的分局長或是縣市的交通警察大隊長或是刑事警察大隊長他們現在都是直接都非常的低都只有兩縣市你現在交通跟犯罪打詐什麼這些這麼重要的工作其實他們都應該要配合調整但是"},{"start":6032.515,"end":6054.233,"text":"每次內政部說一定是人事總署先擋但人事總署擋過一關之後再說這是全序部,都是全序部在擋我還是很希望全序部不要再背這個鍋了因為現在組織多元發展那業務已經如此的繁複之後該支持他們還是要支持他們好不好謝謝,謝謝次長好,謝謝游毓蘭委員"},{"start":6059.864,"end":6087.754,"text":"接下來請謝一鳳委員謝一鳳委員謝一鳳委員不在接下來請王洪威委員發言好 謝謝主席那我延續一下剛才游毓蘭委員她的話題就是最近事實上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的這個高級的長官秘書處處長他的這個婚外情"},{"start":6088.254,"end":6091.735,"text":"公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有"},{"start":6105.379,"end":6122.479,"text":"交字貪惰、奢侈放蕩以及也由賭博、吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了"},{"start":6123.34,"end":6150.298,"text":"所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反"},{"start":6153.696,"end":6174.068,"text":"公務員服務法現在第6條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年勤勉謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽之行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價"},{"start":6182.415,"end":6182.655,"text":"公務員服務法委員長"},{"start":6207.442,"end":6232.535,"text":"這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部,若衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子若衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎?不是你是主管機關嗎?按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法?"},{"start":6232.944,"end":6238.891,"text":"所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他也就不了了之也就沒事了"},{"start":6255.469,"end":6255.709,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":6280.454,"end":6281.315,"text":"另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長"},{"start":6306.512,"end":6332.555,"text":"昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上大家有看到就是有很多所謂被擒制單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎?你知道嗎?"},{"start":6334.471,"end":6336.331,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":6361.209,"end":6362.55,"text":"蔡奇昌副院長邱太元委員"},{"start":6376.846,"end":6391.138,"text":"有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得"},{"start":6392.479,"end":6414.13,"text":"這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的"},{"start":6421.093,"end":6421.754,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":6437.045,"end":6440.207,"text":"現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過"},{"start":6466.175,"end":6494.737,"text":"沒有被知會過我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委那我就我就如果如果有知會我們原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好您說就是說也不可以監聽我們如果有知會就會拒絕那如果是助理呢這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢所以"},{"start":6496.154,"end":6506.258,"text":"這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是很明白我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處還有秘書處好多所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情"},{"start":6516.522,"end":6541.567,"text":"可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的"},{"start":6543.067,"end":6546.63,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":6569.348,"end":6584.713,"text":"確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的"},{"start":6591.788,"end":6617.397,"text":"謝謝委員所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長瞭解一下"},{"start":6619.558,"end":6640.034,"text":"謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對"},{"start":6641.435,"end":6669.355,"text":"對,因為還是要跟這些相關﹖因為他們要具體﹖不是跳下去一個新聞稿好像就會弄過去好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要瞭解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要瞭解不管它是真假我們也必須要瞭解對,但有些它如果是真﹖我要講的是"},{"start":6669.955,"end":6670.656,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":6679.949,"end":6682.35,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查"},{"start":6701.582,"end":6729.478,"text":"對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己情治單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆"},{"start":6731.138,"end":6731.218,"text":"陳譽貞委員發言"},{"start":6760.682,"end":6785.475,"text":"謝謝主席我剛再補充一下因為這個真的是民主法制社會如果說沒有合法監聽是完全侵犯人民權利沒錯第二個如果是有合法監聽然後這種資料外洩外流那也是相當嚴重的問題對然後尤其裡面有那麼多的所以我們必須要去了解一下這個議題很重大好謝謝來你要請教這個權序部權序部"},{"start":6792.204,"end":6796.269,"text":"請問這個我們今天修這個公教人員保險法這個第36條這個訂定第36條給付生意給付的請領請問立法目的為何?"},{"start":6802.748,"end":6823.076,"text":"主要就是36條規範是要有一定的日數才能夠勤領的,那這個部分對於有些……對,就是像以現在的法規來講,如果有公教人員有投公保,不管是分明或是早產,現在是不是一定領得到生意給付?"},{"start":6824.651,"end":6825.512,"text":"國民年金法第32條"},{"start":6841.068,"end":6842.189,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查"},{"start":6856.181,"end":6880.222,"text":"人民健康保險條例第24條第一項也有規定對保險人或其配偶合於下列情形之餘得勤領生意給付、參加保險後分免、參加保險後早產所以我說請這個權需部比照這個國民年金法及人民健康保險條例的法條一直就要把這個36條這個日數限制要放寬因為本期也接到很多陳情案就是說在這個這個保險期間有效"},{"start":6884.085,"end":6884.665,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":6905.394,"end":6916.943,"text":"參照這個我們邱委員沒了,邱志偉委員的這個有關36條的提案,我想跟我們布里頭的這個方向也是一致的嗎?本席在這裡是表示支持的。好,謝謝布。好,謝謝陳一貞委員。接下來請劉建國委員發言。好,謝謝主席。理事長,請教一下,針對上個月的霸凌案目前的進度怎樣?"},{"start":6930.958,"end":6951.874,"text":"我們已經立刻就組織一個委員會然後開會那委員會有主管有非主管有專家寫者然後我們開了應該有兩次會到三次會結果我們就有結論結論之後我們就有通知當事人然後都有處理了"},{"start":6953.499,"end":6953.519,"text":"因為"},{"start":6967.116,"end":6986.109,"text":"那我是不是請我們副秘書長補充一下因為他是整個這個會的召集人他大概細節他可以比較清楚的告訴委員跟委員報告就是他是11月2號所以11月3號我們就開始進行第一次調查"},{"start":6986.829,"end":6990.953,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查"},{"start":7003.285,"end":7003.625,"text":" （二、併案審查"},{"start":7022.295,"end":7024.316,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":7051.305,"end":7051.806,"text":"我沒有問到這麼細啦,說結果"},{"start":7070.95,"end":7085.418,"text":"結果是大家一致認為是不成立不成立是所以有成立現在有成立這個單一窗口可以接受我們立院同仁遇到這個事情可以來到這個單一去申訴嗎沒錯沒錯沒錯有好那至於這個細節我們再找時間再來討論因為到底為什麼會不成立在這邊也沒辦法討論到一個很周詳不過"},{"start":7094.443,"end":7119.743,"text":"不過最起碼有成立這個單一窗口那就不需要讓立院的同仁又跑到這邊來做那次的動作所以這邊要肯定秘書長跟副秘書長但是我現在回歸到頭來來討論到立院的助理國會的聯絡人來來往往如果他們受到職場上的霸凌性騷在不在這個立院單一專案小組或單一窗口可以來受理的範圍內"},{"start":7122.341,"end":7145.719,"text":"如果是國會聯絡人國會聯絡人、立法院的助理立法院的助理立法院的助理是可以我們這邊可以來受理他們但是如果國會聯絡人的話委員你在講立法院的助理你這邊可以受理後面三、四個人頭一直搖一直搖一直搖搖得非常嚴重非常的劇烈"},{"start":7147.831,"end":7173.349,"text":"跟委員報告原則上我們是立法院的員工那因為助理對助理的因為僱主是委員所以我們不必對嘛助理是利用的助理的僱主是立委嘛對不對那如果A辦公室的助理受到霸淫找A辦公室的立委嘛B辦公室的助理受到霸淫找這個B辦公室的委員嘛應該是這麼說嘛"},{"start":7175.243,"end":7189.766,"text":"這樣不是也很奇怪?我們今天當委員提出來就是要編列這個公會助理的健康檢查的相關經費嘛對不對?我們助理的費用就立院編給他了那立院的助理遇到霸凌我們沒有一個單一窗口然後找個別的僱主"},{"start":7190.447,"end":7207.125,"text":"然後如果是同黨的或許都還大家參考相關的一些意見那如果不同黨的情況下遇到還是說什麼樣的每一個113席的老闆每一個的對這種事情的處理方式不一樣然後在立院持續的有這樣事情發生那最終最終要怎麼處理"},{"start":7210.562,"end":7210.803,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":7222.609,"end":7250.665,"text":"雖然他僱主就是立委但是跟委員所講的這個狀況實在是是是真的會發生類似這種狀況因為他他變成說這個他變是找他的僱主僱主處理啊僱主處理的方式有都不一樣所以我們也在想說類似這樣子的話我們要怎麼樣子比較有效的來來統一個規範來讓他們有納入我們也是在想方法在處理"},{"start":7251.425,"end":7274.531,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":7274.871,"end":7302.131,"text":"法令上事上是有它的困難度啦,所以還是要想辦法來做一些突破或怎麼樣。恭喜,同學說的是一樣但是另外一個,就是說我們立院也是在著重對這個緩霸凌、緩性騷,我們有一個單位管道也可以受理助理來做這樣的事情的一個緩令,然後可以幫他們解決這樣的事情。我們也在想方設法看能不能有一個"},{"start":7302.972,"end":7304.353,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":7324.827,"end":7326.968,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":7354.292,"end":7374.78,"text":"我們先做會議程序的宣告我們上午會議時間繼續進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止另外今日討論事項提案條文的宣讀時間約10分鐘我們一併先做說明那請大家就是待會宣讀時間做休息我們現在就不休息接下來我們請賴香林委員發言"},{"start":7377.292,"end":7404.97,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想請教秘書長就是昨天我們在報端還有今天的這個報紙很多的頭版提到了這個選前關鍵時刻有發生類似一個境外勢力造假的一個所謂監聽的資訊外露那這事情我不曉得秘書長我們在立院你有沒有收到任何的情資或者是相關的通報來跟您說"},{"start":7405.811,"end":7406.872,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":7421.331,"end":7444.768,"text":"也是今天早上那個王委員有提出這個我們也是完全不清楚我知道那個法務部調查局他們有說應該是假的但是我們也是想說不管是真假我們至少也在了解更清楚一些"},{"start":7445.871,"end":7472.157,"text":"是這樣的因為我在10月26號我們在司法委員會我也質詢過當時調查局我也給他稱讚就是說對於有一個所謂柯P的秘密會議的這個紀錄裡面他的聲音聽起來很像是柯P柯文哲主席但事實上後來調查局他們見識之後說那個是假的是假的那我覺得我們的技術上面在這個身為影音部分已經很有這個"},{"start":7473.257,"end":7474.138,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":7489.594,"end":7513.041,"text":"當然民主黨已經確認我們沒有收到任何的群職通報給我們立院那但是這一次在所謂的這個提供出來的所謂監聽所謂群職監聽這四個字當然我是括號的我說暫時用群職監聽這個來講好像包括了立院的一些委員政府的局處長甚至是這個"},{"start":7514.48,"end":7515.521,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":7532.022,"end":7533.964,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查"},{"start":7552.176,"end":7552.236,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":7582.977,"end":7608.26,"text":"對於假訊息的作戰,境外資金作戰跟境外勢力所謂借選與否應該是上升到認知作戰可能會混淆整個社會的秩序甚至對於很多的人跟人關係的信任度馬上就已經進到了一個比較風險跟威脅的情勢所以想請問我們法務部今天是有司長"},{"start":7610.103,"end":7615.526,"text":"副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長副司長"},{"start":7633.34,"end":7642.109,"text":"向委員報告,就像淳如委員所提到的,因為一應明年這個二合一的大選,所以我們按照過去選舉的這個經驗,我們知道說這個境外勢力的借選或者是假訊息一定會比以往更加的嚴重。所以這一次我們頒訂的這個查會的工作綱領裡面,我們把這個查緝境外勢力借選,還有這個查緝假訊息的部分列為我們的三大強韌策略之一,還有我們的重點工作。"},{"start":7656.423,"end":7660.824,"text":"那麼另外我們知道說要查緝這些假訊息或者是境外勢力竊選其實必須要靠有很廣泛的情資那我們才不會我們才不會就是說這個整個的偵查能量被這個消耗所以我們認為檢舉的情資非常重要所以我們在8月22號的時候也修正發布新的鼓勵檢舉防害選舉的這個獎金的這個要點所以我們把這個檢舉境外勢力竊選還有這個就是選舉賭盤的部分都納入在這一次可以給獎的這個範圍"},{"start":7684.889,"end":7684.969,"text":"一）委員長"},{"start":7702.022,"end":7703.725,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":7716.537,"end":7740.437,"text":"所以想請教的就是說昨天晚上我們大概傍晚的時間就很多媒體在詢問各個委員對這件事情的看法到昨天的晚上大概邢太昭這個總長就已經認定這是一個監聽的資料境外勢力的認知作戰所為所以我只是想要確認我們現在剛剛講六都也有這個檢察署自己的指使"},{"start":7741.377,"end":7760.71,"text":"指揮系統,然後整體上面應該也是檢察總長這邊會有所謂情資跟判案的一個回報系統。所以這件事情到底在昨天,你們之前已經知道了,還是昨天同步時間,然後你們很快的在三、四個小時就可以認定,這個就是境外事業認知作戰。"},{"start":7761.87,"end":7769.876,"text":"跟委員報告這個事情我們也是昨天知道的那昨天知道的第一時間的時候調查局跟最高檢這邊都有進行了解那其實最高檢也有發布新聞稿從這個他認為說這個是境外的伺服器把這個訊息投放到社群的網站而且裡面有一些簡體字還有新聞的紀念那甚至有一些指稱跟電話的國碼都是有一些異議的所以據此初步的最高檢察署跟這個調查局判斷這可能應該是認知作戰"},{"start":7788.549,"end":7794.983,"text":"最高檢也在第一時間責成這個臺北地檢署分案來查處偵辦我們希望適時的可以釐清這整個事件"},{"start":7795.58,"end":7818.418,"text":"也許這個做法出道我們看出來的這個真實度很快可以辨明包括是所謂境外的伺服器所以你們很快的用這個做判準但是如果他做的微妙微笑甚至像之前2017年我們互證資料2300萬筆外洩的事情查證起來也比較困難沒有辦法很快的釐清那所以我是希望我們今天在這裡因為"},{"start":7821,"end":7844.211,"text":"主席還是我們司法相關專業的律師我是覺得這件事是不是可以請主席才是就是請調查局或者是法務部可以在兩周內給我們一個專案的報告就這件事情判斷的基準的速度性跟你們的專業度我們是支持的肯定但是這一次發言有五、六個單位都出來發言到底SOP是什麼"},{"start":7844.831,"end":7872.238,"text":"最後像發生過再次的狀況整體上國人的疑慮你們誰會是一個定於御尊的主責來對外說明不然你看國安局有這個大局然後還有我們自己的這個最高檢等等還有刑事局那連我們委員幾乎各黨團的總召副總召都被問所以我覺得這需要一個更完整的SOP來讓我們也瞭解如何參與就是說防堵認知作戰的一個角色"},{"start":7872.298,"end":7874.379,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查三、併案審查四、併案審查五、併案審查六、併案審查"},{"start":7894.406,"end":7894.626,"text":"李德維委員"},{"start":7912.097,"end":7925.11,"text":"主席,剛剛我們談到公報處的事情,因為剛剛副秘已經說明了,我就不再問,但本身有一個問題,"},{"start":7926.854,"end":7953.524,"text":"講到在立法院裡面立委被職場霸凌我們應該去哪裡申訴我們現在依照公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法那立院的這個小組可不可以接受立委的申訴我沒有說有發生我只是想要請教我們現在的制度我們現在制度應該是不包括立委不包括立委那立委怎麼辦立委"},{"start":7955.563,"end":7980.865,"text":"哭訴無聞,是這意思嗎?這個倒是個大問題啦。對不對?對啦。所以,來,秘書長,這問題怎麼解決?立委如果被霸凌的話...那現在的法令,立委都活該倒霉,是這意思嗎?也不是活該倒霉啦,這是立委比較...應該說立委他各方面的人力...所以立委不是公務員,是這意思嗎?"},{"start":7983.446,"end":8010.782,"text":"應該...來今天有這個...全序部...政治...請教立委是不是公務員我受到了職場霸凌或者...我們可以好好來想一想看怎麼處理來這個請教這個次長他是廣義的公職人員廣義的公職人員對因為我貪汙是用公務人員貪汙自費條例啊對不對但是我現在假如遭到職場霸凌我無處申訴請問國家全序部給我什麼保障考試院給我什麼保障這不只是立法院的問題喔"},{"start":8012.575,"end":8027.351,"text":"對不對大家應該思考一下在這個部分裡面你不能貪污的時候用公務人員法來辦我阿你現在我的職場被霸凌了你不給我申訴的管道這怎麼弄阿有沒有道理"},{"start":8030.583,"end":8057.771,"text":"應該要來思考看要什麼方法來有一個管道或是其他的方式。所以這個部分拜託去思考一下那接下來本席講的就是關於您今天這個我們立院也特別這個書面報告講到這個超明委員提的這個案子有關公費助理這部分當然我知道在行政單位的想法由於僱主是立委"},{"start":8058.934,"end":8083.106,"text":"所以立院的公費助理在這個編列相關的健康補助檢查的補助你們會覺得沒道理但是你們去思考一下中華電信有子公司有孫公司其實立法委員在立法院某種程度也算是立法院的其中的一員"},{"start":8084.656,"end":8101.126,"text":"其中的一份子所以立法委員底下所顧的公費助理我們現在講不是自費公費助理其實就跟中華電信的子公司孫公司是同樣的邏輯所以公務人員我這樣講不好意思"},{"start":8102.54,"end":8115.512,"text":"各位是都有保障的所以你覺得你無所謂但是人家爭取的時候你就排斥很糟糕我直接講因為我這也直接講所以來來來"},{"start":8120.957,"end":8139.404,"text":"請教一下民主黨你這裡面回答說113年年度預算不及編列然後規劃後明定那我想請問假如我們今天寫的我這從法律公佈施行日開始那你沒有錢你沒有編你怎麼弄"},{"start":8140.515,"end":8158.553,"text":"所以我們就希望說把它明定我們有提修正動議說希望能夠在114年1月1號開始做因為今年的預算已經編完了嘛所以明年當然就沒有這一筆預算嘛所以我們最快就是從"},{"start":8159.929,"end":8161.75,"text":"一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查"},{"start":8176.994,"end":8194.735,"text":"公、包含權序部在內跟我們立法院各單位因為這個好我們沒有自肥的問題因為明年2月1號你就看不到我坐在這裡所以沒有自肥的問題但是千萬不要把立法委員的公費助理想成是外人"},{"start":8196.119,"end":8218.301,"text":"所以剛剛大家在後面您很猶豫的時候後面就猛搖頭我也看到啦因為後面的邏輯很簡單你立委聘的公費助理跟我無關我不用理你的死活你們就是這種態度送你三個字很糟糕不會啦我們不會這種態度很糟糕所以本席在這邊最後"},{"start":8219.537,"end":8235.385,"text":"還是要奉勸各位要把立法院能夠弄好是對於中華民國對於整體的制度是好的所以在這個部分裡面不要又去分內外你是公務員他是助理"},{"start":8236.385,"end":8237.346,"text":"接下來請林淑芬委員發言"},{"start":8267.797,"end":8268.257,"text":"陳超明委員的提案"},{"start":8289.542,"end":8289.902,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":8308.081,"end":8308.261,"text":"總務處,請報告一下。"},{"start":8322.898,"end":8345.702,"text":"就不論是助理還是職員、院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式"},{"start":8346.343,"end":8346.723,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":8366.314,"end":8367.675,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":8392.011,"end":8409.608,"text":"但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究"},{"start":8410.208,"end":8436.028,"text":"你知道最後那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了你就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個將平均起來的國會助理的平均年資是多久"},{"start":8446.673,"end":8463.5,"text":"國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀,更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手。2017年的調查,國會助理平均年資是兩年多,年資在四年以下的高達57.8%。"},{"start":8467.27,"end":8491.438,"text":"你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦因為一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的他就可能四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響"},{"start":8492.56,"end":8514.316,"text":"我們國會立委都說要資深制可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以結果我們現在的現況是國會助理是兩年兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差這裡立法院的工作環境和條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了"},{"start":8515.33,"end":8531.715,"text":"所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現、外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻"},{"start":8532.335,"end":8534.336,"text":"一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":8549.352,"end":8571.3,"text":"其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職"},{"start":8575.269,"end":8587.579,"text":"工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊。這一切都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關。一任立委四年而已。"},{"start":8588.77,"end":8606.904,"text":"二、受訪者都表示應該儘速讓國會助理法制化,使國會助理的權益被保障,讓助理有完善的年資累積機制,而且要設輔導教學機制,還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益,進而降低國會助理的離職率。"},{"start":8610.472,"end":8634.037,"text":"這樣是很有道理的啦。很有道理的要怎麼做?現在其實我當立委也當伍介啦那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取到建檢是最簡單的啦建檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是"},{"start":8636.13,"end":8648.773,"text":"為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有那個公務人員的身份我們現在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡"},{"start":8649.741,"end":8665.484,"text":"公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是"},{"start":8666.665,"end":8666.845,"text":"三、併案審查"},{"start":8691.263,"end":8691.443,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":8711.175,"end":8712.856,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":8737.929,"end":8749.907,"text":"心理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是Employee Assistance Program就是勞動部的定義的"},{"start":8751.434,"end":8753.915,"text":" （一）立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第10屆"},{"start":8774.662,"end":8795.399,"text":"所以這個EAPS這個Employee Assistance Program它包含要發現問題、問題評估、問題解決的系統然後依據這一些需求和工作性質選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理、職員工加起來有多少人"},{"start":8797.216,"end":8805.448,"text":"我們現在這個的確這裡做的不夠啦,的確如此。我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業。我們請我啦。"},{"start":8808.772,"end":8815.135,"text":"現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的這個問題事實上其實是很重要的"},{"start":8833.602,"end":8855.511,"text":"謝謝委員我在這裡分享一個臺灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員、助衛警、銷務基金約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用他們的心理諮詢是特約機構合作模式"},{"start":8862.014,"end":8879.125,"text":"請臺師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務。服務的方式是上網填寫表單、去店預約,而且要做到身份保密,而且要注重申請人的隱私。"},{"start":8880.666,"end":8885.331,"text":"新田心理諮商所新田心理諮商所"},{"start":8898.464,"end":8914.891,"text":"你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考積打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題"},{"start":8916.124,"end":8931.086,"text":"然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積打一等的壓力他也需要輔導"},{"start":8932.518,"end":8956.309,"text":"所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起臺科大比起這個其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要儘速的來提供心理諮商的這個資源"},{"start":8957.95,"end":8982.356,"text":"因為這個壓力來源你知道像助理他只有老闆給他壓力選舉的壓力他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來"},{"start":8984.036,"end":8993.164,"text":"秘書長你自己也是縱管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是接助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人"},{"start":8994.707,"end":9016.096,"text":"每個人在不同的場域感受到的壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的這個意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體"},{"start":9017.196,"end":9033.941,"text":"但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我"},{"start":9035.249,"end":9035.769,"text":"（二、併案審查（二）"},{"start":9056.431,"end":9081.088,"text":"就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求?明年度預算我說你明年四月編預算的時候啊四年編預算那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊?明年度應該就可以來編列編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嘛"},{"start":9082.589,"end":9082.749,"text":"二、併案審查"},{"start":9101.937,"end":9102.558,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":9119.361,"end":9143.181,"text":"在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的"},{"start":9144.315,"end":9147.197,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":9164.571,"end":9191.184,"text":"所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還沒有還不是為了解決自殺這一塊啦但是說我們這個早期早期的這個介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情"},{"start":9194.065,"end":9219.145,"text":"公報處的處長把國會頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷地以情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確也需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理立委也有很多壓力啦"},{"start":9220.345,"end":9220.965,"text":"三、併案審查三、併案審查"},{"start":9241.81,"end":9242.851,"text":"請立法院出席"},{"start":9268.4,"end":9293.519,"text":"邱辰遠委員、邱辰遠委員、邱辰遠委員不在。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者,請相關機關盡速送交個別委員會及本會。委員邱辰遠、謝一鳳、吳祁銘所提書面質詢均列入紀錄刊登公報,並請相關機關以書面答覆。"},{"start":9297.529,"end":9313.075,"text":"現在進行討論事項,請議事人員就討論事項各案的提案條文一併宣讀,宣讀時間大概10分鐘,宣讀後即進行討論,修正動議一併宣讀,與會者如有需要可利用宣讀時間上洗手間。"},{"start":9319.913,"end":9341.865,"text":"討論事項第一案．立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案．委員陳超明等提案第三十二條．促增訂第三項為．立法院因每年編列預算．針對公費助理實施健康檢查．其項目方法由立法院另定之．予未修正第二案司法人員人事條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":9342.935,"end":9370.923,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第三條除將第三款條文中最高法院檢察署修正為最高檢察署第四款修正為四高等檢察署以下各級檢察署及其檢察分署檢察長、主任檢察官、檢察官其餘未修正委員游毓蘭等提案第三條對照委員黃世杰等提案除將序文中左列修正為下列以外其餘同委員黃世杰等提案"},{"start":9372.662,"end":9379.294,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第四條,除將序文中左列修正為下列,另增訂第三款。"},{"start":9381.118,"end":9403.255,"text":"三、主任檢查事務官檢查事務官令第四款至第十款由原第三款至第九款條文第一其餘未修正。委員黃世杰等提案第九條除將第一項序文中地方法院或其分院檢查署修正為地方檢查署及其檢查分署其餘未修正。"},{"start":9404.522,"end":9434.137,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第11條除將第一項序文中高等法院或其分院檢查署修正為高等檢查署及其檢查分署另第一項第一款中及第二項中地方法院或其分院檢查署均修正為地方檢查署及其檢查分署以外其未修正委員黃世杰等提案第12條除將序文中最高法院檢查署修正為最高檢查署"},{"start":9435.677,"end":9465.22,"text":"第一款、第二款首具中及第三款倒數第二具中的高等法院或其分院檢查署均修正為高等檢查署及其檢查分署令第二款第二具中地方法院或其分院檢查署修正為地方檢查署及其檢查分署其餘未修正文游欲蘭等提案第12條對照文黃世杰等提案除序文中左列修正為下列"},{"start":9467.017,"end":9491.566,"text":"令第一款、第二款首具及第三款倒數第二具中的高等檢查署及其檢查分署中的集字均修正為貨字。第二款第二具中的地方檢查署及其檢查分署中的集字修正為貨字。其餘通委員黃世杰等提案。委員黃世杰等提案第13條"},{"start":9493.226,"end":9509.495,"text":"除將首句中的地方法院及其分院檢查署修正為地方檢查署及其檢查分署第二句中的高等法院或其分院檢查署修正為高等檢查署及其檢查分署以外其一未修正。委員黃世杰等提案第14條"},{"start":9511.141,"end":9537.991,"text":"除將首具中的高等法院及其分院檢查署修正為高等檢查署及其檢查分署第二具中的最高法院檢查署修正為最高檢查署以外其餘未修正委員游毓蘭等提案第14條同委員黃世杰等提案委員黃世杰等提案第15條除將條文中高等法院以下各級法院及其分院檢查署修正為高等檢查署以下"},{"start":9538.971,"end":9559.051,"text":"各級檢查署及其檢查分署其餘未修正委員黃世杰等提案第二十條之二檢查事務官應就具有擬任職務任用資格及下列資格之一者任用之依經公務人員高等考試或司法人員特種考試相當等級之檢查事務官考試及格者"},{"start":9559.992,"end":9561.674,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":9584.096,"end":9605.579,"text":"成績優良具有兼任職任用資格者前項第二款至第四款人員應經徵審訓練合格其有關年齡限制、資格條件、成績優良、徵試程序及訓練方式等相關事項之徵審及訓練辦法由行政院定之。主任檢查事務官"},{"start":9606.466,"end":9617.379,"text":"應就具有檢察事務官及擬任職等之任用資格,並有領導才能者臨任之具律師職業資格者任檢察事務官期間記錄其律師職業年資。"},{"start":9620.475,"end":9645.775,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第28303號第27條除將第二項條文中最高法院檢察署修正為最高檢察署外其餘未修正。委員黃世杰等提案第10033864號第27條除將第二項條文中法務部司法官訓練所修正為法務部司法官學院以外其餘未修正。"},{"start":9646.576,"end":9654.427,"text":"委員游毓蘭等提案第27條除將第二項條文中最高法院檢察署修正為最高檢察署外其餘未修正"},{"start":9656.004,"end":9678.629,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第32條除將第一項序文中左列修正為下列第一款修正為一、因內亂外患貪污故意賭職罪受判刑確定者第二款第二具修正為受有期徒刑以上刑之宣告確定者第四款修正為四、受監護之宣告者"},{"start":9680.186,"end":9707.927,"text":"憎定第二項時任司法官受監護或輔助之宣告者自宣告之日起得依相關規定辦理退休或資遣第三項由原第二項條文遞移其餘未修正委員黃世杰等提案第40條處將第三項條文中公務人員退休法及公務人員撫恤法修正為公務人員退休資遣撫恤法以外其餘未修正委員黃世杰等提案第41條"},{"start":9709.83,"end":9737.572,"text":"除將守具中公務人員退休法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法另莫具條文為其辦法由司法官、會同、考試院、行政院以命令之其餘未修正委員黃世杰等提案第42條除將莫具中的得依公務人員任用法修正為得依公務人員退休之前撫恤法及公務人員任用法其餘未修正"},{"start":9738.493,"end":9750.9,"text":"委員黃世杰等提案第43條司法官之撫恤適用公務人員退休之前撫恤法之規定第三案公調人員保險法第12條及第36條條文修正草案"},{"start":9754.608,"end":9776.659,"text":"委員劉建國等提案第十二條,除徵定第五項條文為,被保險人在保險有效期間懷孕且符合第36條第一項規定之參加保險日數,與保險效力停止後一年內因同一懷孕事故而分免或招餐者,得勤領生育給付,其餘未修正。"},{"start":9778.373,"end":9791.063,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第36條除增訂第四項及第五項條文威。第一項各款期間制計算曾參加其他社會保險者應合併計算該保險之投保總年資。"},{"start":9792.458,"end":9818.102,"text":"第一項生育給付之發給保險人間因依被保險人參加各該保險之投保期間案比例分攤其相關辦法由中央主管機關會同有關機關定之其餘未修正委員邱志偉等提案第36條除第一項修正為被保險人與繳付本保險保險費後分免早產或留產者得勤領生育給付"},{"start":9819.585,"end":9830.273,"text":"第三項首具聚首的第一項等文字刪除外其餘未修正宣讀完畢。繼續修正動議部分討論事項第一案修正動議一"},{"start":9832.509,"end":9853.221,"text":"對照性行條文第32條增訂第三項（立法院應每年編列預算補助公費助理實施健康檢查及文康活動費用其對象項目方法標準及其他應遵行之事項由立法院另訂之自中華民國114年1月1日施行復表未修正提案人委員林思明等"},{"start":9854.401,"end":9870.275,"text":"修正動議二、對照性行條文第32條、增訂第三項至第五項。依職業安全衛生法第20條規定,立法院應每年編列預算針對公費助理實施健康檢查,其補助項目及標準比照公務員一般健康檢查實施要點之規定。"},{"start":9871.596,"end":9897.948,"text":"立法院因每年編列預算補助每位公費助理一定金額之文康費用並由立法院國會助理工會擬具計畫向立法院人事處提出申請及核銷。第三、四項補助費用致重劃民國143年1月1日施行提案人委員鄭韻鵬等。談論四項第二案修正動議一對照性行條文第二十七條第二項條文中司法官訓練所修正為司法官學院"},{"start":9898.988,"end":9911.157,"text":"最高法院檢察署修正委最高檢察署第41條首具修正委時任司法官合於公務人員退休此前撫恤法或公務人員個人專戶制退休此前撫恤法退休規定"},{"start":9912.847,"end":9941.173,"text":"第四十二條,莫具修正為得依公務人員退休此前撫恤法或公務人員個人專戶自退休此前撫恤法及公務人員任用法有關此前之規定此前提案人委員鄭應鵬等。討論事項第三案修正動議一,對照現行條文第36條第一項第一款第二款修正為一、在保險有效期間分娩或早產二、在保險有效期間懷孕且於保險效率停止後一年內"},{"start":9942.133,"end":9971.166,"text":"因同意懷孕事故而分免或早產。曾定第四項及第五項,被保險人同時符合相關社會保險生意給付或因軍公教身份擬領國家給予之生意補助擬領條件者,僅得擇依擬領。被保險人於本法中華民國103年6月1日修正生效後至某年某月某日修正之本條文施行前,具有第一項各款情形之一,且未因同意分免或早產事實領取本保險或相關社會保險生意給付。"},{"start":9971.966,"end":9985.26,"text":"或應軍公教身份擬國家給予之生育補助者（可依某年某月修（某日修正之本條文施行前（之給予標準擬擬生育給付。厲二（委員林思明、陳玉珍等"},{"start":9986.661,"end":10009.596,"text":"修正動議二、對照性行條文第36條,第一項,第一款中刪除滿280日等文字,第二款刪除條文中滿181日等文字,第二項條文中給予兩個月修正為給予三個月,增訂第四項,中華民國某年某月某日修正制本條文施行前分年或遭殘者,"},{"start":10010.536,"end":10016.742,"text":"其擬生意己負．人事用修正施行前置規定．提案人委員賴香林、．陳妍等宣讀完畢。"},{"start":10046.307,"end":10046.588,"text":"來啦來啦"},{"start":10049.617,"end":10052.98,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":10078.55,"end":10085.406,"text":"二十條之二不一定真定嗎?是二十條之二嗎?不一定真定嗎?你有寫出來?我知道,沒有問題,我會帶起來。"},{"start":10109.773,"end":10135.519,"text":"我們現在開始進行討論那提案條文及修正動議均已宣讀完畢現在開始討論討論事項第一案審查陳超明等22人擬具《立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案》因為條文僅有一條我們是不是審列大體討論直接進行逐條審查沒有異議好那沒有意見的話我們現在開始進行逐條審查那麼"},{"start":10138.902,"end":10164.392,"text":"立法院組織法第三十二條我們總共有陳超明委員的提案還有我還有志願委員的修正動議那政委員那個修正動議已經涵蓋在我的修正動議裡面那立法院那個也沒有意見嘛那我們立法院組織法三十二條的我們就依照林思明委員等五人所提修正動議通過"},{"start":10170.716,"end":10187.39,"text":"本案主條已處理完畢,作以下宣告本案審查完畢,擬具審查報告,提請院會公決本案不須交由黨團協商,無異見。院會討論時,由林召集委員施明出席說明。"},{"start":10189.222,"end":10207.459,"text":"條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理。討論事項第一案已審查完略。列席本院黎明署長及幕僚代表應令有要供,請先行離席。"},{"start":10211.486,"end":10230.648,"text":"現在進行討論事項第二案（併案審查委員黃世杰等16人擬具司法人員人事條例部分條文修正草案等三案。為求效率,我們是不是也審列大體討論?直接進行逐條審查?好,無異議。如果沒有意見的話,現在開始進行逐條審查。"},{"start":10234.636,"end":10257.842,"text":"我們現在先進行第三條第三條我想大家都沒有意見就按照黃世杰委員等16人的提案通過第四條也是按照黃世杰委員等16人的提案通過這都沒有爭議第九條也依照黃世杰委員等16人的提案"},{"start":10259.175,"end":10287.591,"text":"有沒有意見?沒有意見我們就通過第11條也按照黃世杰委員等16人的提案通過第12條我們也是依照委員黃世杰等16人的提案通過第13條第13條我們有這個少一個極致那我們就按照委員黃世杰等16人的提案修正通過"},{"start":10291.686,"end":10307.962,"text":"第14條也是按照委員黃世杰等16人的提案通過。第15條也按照委員黃世杰等16人的提案通過。增訂20條之二,法務部有意見,請法務部說明。"},{"start":10310.283,"end":10334.43,"text":"主席、各位委員跟大家報告一下有關於第20條之二的增訂的部分那第20條之二的這個增訂的部分呢事實上第一項、第三項跟第四項跟法院組織法的第66條之四的第一項、第三項、第四項的規範都是相同它基本上在規範假事務官、主任假事務官的任用資格還有律師職業資格、職業年資計算的這個相當的規定所以我們認為說這個部分是不是不需要再做重複的規定"},{"start":10335.29,"end":10351.658,"text":"那唯一有差異的就是說這個增訂了第20條之二的第二項裡面它規範到就是說如果是從其他的人來領選的時候呢相關的徵審還有訓練的辦法由行政院定之那但是跟委員報告就是說目前我們的假事務官基本上的來源都是從考試來的我們暫時沒有規劃說"},{"start":10354.139,"end":10357.42,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":10378.609,"end":10406.25,"text":"好,那我們20條之二就依照法務部的意見,不亦爭定。沒有異議我們就通過。第27條,那有志文朋委員有提修正動議。那我們是不是依照志文朋委員,要講一下嗎?不用啦,那我們就依志文朋委員的修正動議通過。那第32條,我們依黃世杰委員等16人的提案通過。"},{"start":10408.171,"end":10426.839,"text":"第40條黃世杰委員的因為第40條還有第43條的修正均已於令案修正通過在112年12月5日本院第10屆第8會期第10次會議三讀通過所以第40條有43條均不亦採納本條均不亦採納第41條我們也是政評委員有一個修正動議"},{"start":10437.54,"end":10457.581,"text":"那各位我們就依照 委員的修正動議通過 有沒有意見?沒有喔?好我有意見喔?第42條 委員也有修正動議我們是不是也依照 委員所提的修正動議通過 有沒有意見?沒有意見喔?第三條 我們不亦採納"},{"start":10462.162,"end":10484.769,"text":"本案已處理完畢,作以下宣告。本案審查完畢,擬具審查報告提請院會公決。本案是否需交到檔案學商?不需要。本案不需交到檔案學商。院會討論時,由林昭吉委員施明出席說明。條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語,授權主席及議事人員整理。"},{"start":10491.513,"end":10512.619,"text":"我們進行討論事項第三案（併案審查委員劉建國等18人擬具公教人員保險法第十二條條文修正草案等三案為求效率我們是不是審列大體討論直接進行逐條審查沒有異議好我們沒有意見的話現在開始進行逐條審查第十二條"},{"start":10523.147,"end":10547.766,"text":"請全序部做說明就這個修正案請全序部做說明十二條部分我們是建議在36條裡面鎮定就可以直接就涵蓋在36條一併修正日數都用在36就可以了那十二條我們就不予修正十二條不用修正對十二條我們就不予修正把它一併納入36條來一起做修正"},{"start":10549.397,"end":10562.797,"text":"二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查二、併案審查"},{"start":10564.651,"end":10586.348,"text":"我本人的一個還有陳一貞委員的修正動議還有賴香林委員、邱承遠委員等所提修正動議那我我們看仔細看了就是說我的版本修正動議版本都涵蓋幾位委員的一個修正動議的內容而且比較完整所以"},{"start":10587.449,"end":10608.57,"text":"是不是就依照我的一個（我的版本（還有陳一貞等（就我（陳一貞等6人所提的修正動議案來通過?鄭文維委員有沒有意見?好,鄭文維委員沒有意見。那我們第36條就依照陳一貞委員等6人所提修正動議案通過。"},{"start":10613.295,"end":10642.281,"text":"現在處理委員針對第三案所提附帶決議。請宣讀。討論事項第三案附帶決議,配合公教人員保險法第36條之修正。行政院因同步修正勞工保險條例第31條給予相同條件之生育給付,並於軍人保險條例中增列相同條件之生育給付條文。提案人委員鄭雲鵬、林四民、湯惠貞等。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":10644.377,"end":10644.637,"text":"請機關針對委員所提的附帶決議做說明勞動部"},{"start":10662.519,"end":10681.493,"text":"就是各位委員因為這個配合公保法三十六條的一個修正要同步修正勞保條例三十一條的這個條件會涉及到我們勞工保險的一個給付條件的一個放寬那陳如我上午的時候有跟委員報告過"},{"start":10682.834,"end":10711.232,"text":"就是我們勞保跟公保基本上它的一個適用的對象是不一樣的那勞保它的門檻是比較低而且考量到我們這個給付的一個適當性跟勞保的一個財務所以我們是不是建議說把這個文字那個第二句話建請研議修正勞工保險條例第31條給予相同條件之生意給付之可行性"},{"start":10712.012,"end":10725.83,"text":"就把文字稍微做幾個調整這樣子那不曉得委員因為剛找不到委員不好意思剛好沒有看到委員所以沒有辦法事先跟他那邊請示"},{"start":10727.552,"end":10734.099,"text":"我先請這位委員牽涉到慧環那邊,因為有勞保又有軍保。早上我質詢有提到,牽涉到勞保跟軍保。"},{"start":10743.969,"end":10771.975,"text":"在過去的慣例上來說我們這些決議通常對他們會回到該委員會所以大概精神知道就好也請莊委回去轉達好不好也不用修文字了這一案我撤掉但是因為裡面剛才那個昭偉你們提案裡面在36條裡面有寫到軍公教那其中軍其實不給付所以他的軍人保險法條例裡面還是要去改啦好不好這一點也跟昭偉跟您報告一下那這一案我撤掉"},{"start":10774.752,"end":10778.534,"text":"請勞動部就帶回去,因為今天國防部沒有來,所以另外我們再處理。"},{"start":10785.149,"end":10807.477,"text":"本案主條均已處理完畢,作以下宣告。本案審查完畢,擬具審查報告提請院會公決。本案是否需交由黨團協商?不用。本案不需交由黨團協商。院會討論時,由林召集委員施明出席說明。條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語,授權主席及議事人員處理。"},{"start":10815.303,"end":10821.232,"text":"議程所列事項均已處理完畢。本次會議到此結束。現在散會。謝謝大家。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}