{"error":false,"id":["153433"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153433,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153433","日期":"2024-05-31","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-31T14:30:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-31T14:58:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:28:19","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63981a741ba438d03c4ff5eaf3a1db6be212215d61b9ffb2389ed5ff4c6e923bc05c87b763aa95675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"14:30:23 - 14:58:42","會議時間":"2024-05-31T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議（事由：一、行政院院長報告施政方針並備質詢。\n二、5月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、本次會議不處理臨時提案。）","gazette":{"lineno":807,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（14時30分）主席，我們有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員春城：卓院長好。恭喜你單挑國家重責大任。"],["卓院長榮泰：大家分工合作。"],["吳委員春城：對，大家一起要多合作，我想你提出的行動創新內閣，還有國家希望工程，還有我們現在新內閣很多專業人士，我看他們都信誓旦旦的，很想有一番作為，也是令人期待。但是我們同時也看到執政黨執政的政府讓烽火滿天，院長認為你未來的前途會是一個政治烽火內閣，還是民生建設內閣呢？你自己預估你的命運。"],["卓院長榮泰：每一個國人都是我們的老闆，所以該向所有的國人負責，如果我們的政治要烽火的話，我想人民都會很憂慮，所以我應該優先把自己定位為福國利民的民生建設內閣，這樣對人民比較有交代。"],["吳委員春城：OK！現在看起來民進黨跟國民黨都很「戀戰」，大家打得不亦樂乎！所以接下來這一個月應該也都是陷在政治烽火之中，不過民眾黨會支持你。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：台灣民眾黨是務實、理性、科學的政黨，所以今天我就不談這些了，我要跟你談民生建設。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["吳委員春城：好好的展開，我想這也是我們團隊所期待的。國家希望工程──臺灣在轉捩點上面，我在立法院這4個月以來，我看到我們行政院最大的問題就是缺乏整合，各搞各的，每一個部會專業人才很多，百花齊放。我這次看到早上院長的這一份報告，我還是看到同樣的問題，就是很多專業人士，每一個人都想要自己做好自己，但是缺乏整合。所以我們說到所謂的創業生態系，什麼叫生態系？生態系一定是一個循環，循環一定有供需，供需這個世代，而且要有一個中心價值觀，這中心價值是幹什麼呢？應該以人為本！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["吳委員春城：所以我現在看到了國家希望工程，這個工具面都有了，人才都有了，但是缺了一點人味，這個提供給院長，你認不認同我們再加強以人民為主，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，感謝委員的觀察。早上的報告很多，包括交通、新創等等，我都有提到以人為本，我希望我們共同努力，它不是一句口號，我們是真正把人民優先放在心上的。"],["吳委員春城：對，我們希望現在要落實，因為口號喊太多沒有用。","給院長看一下這張圖，我用這張圖跟所有部會溝通過，讓我非常震撼的一點就是，臺灣明年就進入超高齡社會，65歲占人口的20%，5個人就有1個65歲以上的老人。接下來，臺灣會以全世界最快的速度進入高齡化社會，同時也帶來少子化，高齡化跟少子化是一體之兩面。","我們看1970年代我們的人口結構圖是這樣子，當時年齡的中位數是19.3歲，也就是說，一半的人口在19歲以下；到2040年，我們的人口中位數是52.4歲，也就是說一半的人在52歲以上，這就是臺灣天翻地覆的……但是我們看到各行政部門在規劃高齡政策都是停留在1970年代，用金字塔型的思維在規劃各個政策。","高齡化、少子化被說是國安問題，未來臺灣有龐大的高齡化人口，然後高齡化跟少子化貫穿所有的政策，但是我們現在幾乎都把它歸在衛福部，然後其他的部會都是插花性質，教育部、文化部做了一些什麼高齡的，等一下我就會介紹，請他們上來，幾乎大家都非常荒廢，這會帶來一個非常嚴重的問題，甚至是一個仇恨的社會，是一個死水的經濟，是一個停滯的社會，所以我提出了壯世代，為什麼呢？因為這一群人，我們為什麼會這樣對待他們？因為我們都稱他們叫老人、銀髮族、樂齡族，一碰到老，大家都覺得沒興趣了，就覺得他們準備報銷了，現在是放在倉庫準備報銷的人，所以就付一點點管理費，大概都處於類似這種狀態，但是長壽社會來臨，這些人會有30年的第三人生。現在壯世代是指55+以上，現在臺灣55歲以上有800萬人，800萬人「沐沐泅」，沒有人、沒有政策、沒有產業，欠缺方向，所以我們進行一場社會運動，社會運動第一件事情就要先正名，給他一個新的身分叫做壯世代，也希望臺灣會成為全球高齡化的典範。","壯世代有三支箭提出了，因為我們想解決高齡化，大家就想用科技的方式解決或者用健康的方式解決，就想單一面向，其實這是800萬人的事情，30年人生的問題，而且這些人掌握三分之二臺灣的財富，而且大部分的智能、經驗在他們腦袋裡面，但是我們把他荒廢了，我們把他當作一場災難，所以提出三支箭，第一支箭叫PSR，personal，就是個人的覺醒。我現在請教育部跟文化部的部長先上來，因為在教育部跟文化部裡面就是關於人民要覺醒，但是我們教育部跟文化部現在沒有在做這件事情。我要問文化部，目前你們都沒有責任，這是以前的事情，但是希望你們不會延續，就是高齡相關預算只有3,500萬，占文化部預算的0.2%。其實教育部也是，終身學習司的預算3.4億，也是占教育部預算的0.2%，0.2%是什麼？0.2%的觀念就是放棄這些人啦！剛才說把他放在倉庫準備報銷的概念嘛！所以沒有教育、沒有文化，這些人現在有多少人？800萬人。","然後大家以為高齡化是老人的事情，包括教育部長，上次我也問過你，明年大學畢業生一腳踏出校園就進入什麼社會？部長，明年是什麼社會？超高齡社會。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["吳委員春城：一腳就踏進超高齡社會，這個孩子30歲的時候，2034年，臺灣一半的人口超過50歲，這個孩子40歲的時候，一半人口超過60歲，這個是臺灣的未來。但是我問過所有的教育大學，他們怎麼告訴孩子呢？你們未來的社會是什麼社會？是一個青春無敵的社會，會不會太離譜了？教育的目的不就是培養未來要去什麼戰場嗎？戰場都講錯了，你現在的教育幾乎等於是方向都錯誤。包括文化也是一樣，關於壯世代的文化，文化部做了什麼？重視什麼？一切都好像年輕，但是這個是無法解決年輕人的問題的，因為這邊龐大的銀髮海嘯……","所以這件事情我也跟院長報告，我已經跟所有部會溝通過了，沒有人有辦法解決這個事情，這個必須要有遠見的領導人，這個事情就是院長的事情，院長如果沒有這個認知的話，這個事情無解。我們現在銀髮族臥床8年以上，龐大的人口，未來年輕人沒有希望了，壯世代的觀念就是30年的健康餘命，銀髮族包括我們的產業都是在醫院跟在去區域醫院的路上，事實上壯世代渴望自我實現，貢獻社會，而且促進世代的循環，整個人設都不一樣，那麼我們要去翻轉，我們現在政府沒有這個，目前是停留在銀髮思維底下來規劃所有的政策。舉一個例子，從數位落差來看，簡單講，各方面都一樣，在數位落差當中，現在數位部都在做城鄉數位落差，城鄉數位落差最嚴重的地方就落差20%而已，但是最大落差在臺北市中心，臺北市中心年齡的落差高達60%，而數位部都不聞不問，因為只要碰到高齡者，大家都不聞不問，這是目前的狀況。但是這個事情也很難處理，因為教育部管理一點數位教育；文化部做數位內容；NCC做數位建設，反正每一個部會都管一點，最後等於沒有人在管。","請兩位部長可以休息。第二支箭我要談GSR，就是government政府的解套，現在政府這個問題是非常大的壓力，但是目前我看起來是束手無策的。我請勞動部長還有衛福部長，在我們高齡的政策當中，要就教於兩部。我要請問衛福部還有勞動部，我們的社會當中，當然在為60歲以前規劃，60歲以後的人生、60歲以後做什麼？在衛福部的想像是什麼？在勞動部的想像是什麼？我現在先請勞動部，因為許銘春部長非常支持壯世代，我不曉得何部長會不會繼續支持，你會不會？因為現在很多高舉壯世代重返職場嘛！何部長？"],["何部長佩珊：是，感謝委員。確實，在2020年我們勞動部跟立法院合作推動中高齡就業專法之後，其實這三年來，已經促進了14.5萬壯世代的勞動力加入勞動市場，去年我們因應您的呼籲，我們也推出了一個55Plus壯世代就業促進措施，裡面包含了各方面的就業獎勵。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝。所以基本上剛才講的60歲以後的人，現在有600萬人，現在退休的人有600萬人，這600萬人「沐沐泅」啦！就是你過60歲，政府就跟你解約了，等到你倒下來以後，給你長照。這是去年2023年行政院所提出的超高齡社會對策，這個大概就是它的大綱，我那時候問過陳建仁院長，我說：院長，這是要給你用的，哪些東西會讓你動心，你有什麼需要？他說他都沒需要。我們卓院長應該更不會啦！不過你也是屬於適用對象。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝吳委員。"],["吳委員春城：我想你應該都不會……"],["卓院長榮泰：今天要不是站在這裡，我就是你關心的壯世代。"],["吳委員春城：對，你就是壯世代。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我願意跟你一起關心800萬的壯世代。"],["吳委員春城：所以你看，現在政府把壯世代想像的都是準備要去臥床、在醫院，不然就在醫院路上，但是你看你現在在這裡，挑起國家重責大任，65歲擔任行政院長，正是展開人生最好……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我願意跟吳委員一起，我們一同關懷那800萬的壯世代。"],["吳委員春城：對，我們要一起關心。現在包括社福，衛福部現在在這裡，我們幾乎把所有的錢、高齡者都壓在衛福部了，其他部會都是插花就好了，現在社福已經到了8,000億了，難道要破萬億嗎？而且只能照顧15%，這個社福的政策思維應該要調整啦！"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["吳委員春城：OK。再來就是我們很多經濟上面擔心的扶養比，因為高齡化，所以分子就越來越大，工作人口就當分母，因為少子化就越來越小。到2057年，分子會大於分母，叫做崩潰的時代。我沒有看到有任何人提出這個解方，都是做一點、做一點，包括我們的國家希望工程有沒有解到這個問題，就是上面的這個人口學是不可逆的，這上面的人這麼多，到2057年會大於分子，這個怎麼解啊？"],["林次長靜儀：委員，容我跟委員報告，謝謝您關心我們臺灣的高齡長照社會，但是其實高齡就像我們之前看到的，事實上，高齡不應該認為他就是所謂的依賴人口，我非常贊成您所說的，我們要讓我們的高齡者要健康，而且要跟社區……"],["吳委員春城：很棒！衛福部現在有這個前瞻的觀念了。"],["林次長靜儀：是，他要跟社區連結。"],["吳委員春城：對，所以我們的思維都要與時俱進。"],["林次長靜儀：是，其實現在4年，我們有1,200億的案子，這個案子跨15個部會，所以不是大家插花，而是我們一起來處理。"],["吳委員春城：我知道，這個要做的事情更多。我們的策略當中，就是要把分子拉下來當分母，把分子壯起來，也就是讓這些剛才我們次長講的，不是被依賴者，而是繼續做一個生產者跟消費者，所以勞動部就很重要，未來這件事情要擔當重任的是勞動部，因為會長達30年，不該這樣就退休。包括你們現在，我們看到，一個人只要到60歲上下的時候，整個勞動法規對他非常不友善，讓你想要提早退休都不敢退，讓你不想退休也會強迫你退休，然後退了以後要回來也很困難。目前我們國內創造的環境就是這樣子，把這裡的人困死在這裡。對於這種高齡化社會來講，我希望勞動部未來有很多可以釋放勞動力的地方，回歸勞動自由權，部長可以嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝委員。很感謝委員上個月在衛環委員會，跟我們執政黨的王正旭委員一起提案通過了勞基法第五十四條的修正案，65歲以後只要勞資雙方協議就可以延長退休了……"],["吳委員春城：所以要做的事情很多，包括……"],["何部長佩珊：這真的是一個非常好的修法。"],["吳委員春城：我也知道勞動部現在有做，但是我們現在也算是一個起步，應該要有更大的作為，包括仿效荷蘭做工作的重新設計……"],["何部長佩珊：我們會努力來做，沒有問題。"],["吳委員春城：彈性的工作地點、彈性工時，可以讓這些人變成工作得很快樂，以貢獻他的心力。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，我們現在也正在研擬對勞動者有利的彈性工作時間安排。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝兩位部長。","接下來我要談CSR，其實重要的，我們解決這個領軍的高齡社會，我們不要把它當負擔，我們請金管會主委還有經濟部部長。高齡不是銀髮海嘯，而是可以翻轉為國家發展的大動力，我們經濟部長很有這方面的思維，那天跟你聊過，這個叫做世代的經濟，是世代財富的移轉，龐大的財富在壯世代手裡，我們現在把它鎖死了，導致年輕世代失去經濟的動能，然後就不敢結婚、不敢生小孩，最後造成少子化，後來變成躺平族，然後沒有這個產業，高齡者就被歧視，所以出門被歧視，在家看電視，接著就臥床超過8年。所以如何啟動這個循環，我剛才講的生態系就應該是這樣子，這應該是整個國家希望工程的精神所在，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["吳委員春城：但是我們經濟部原來的，我也說這不是你的責任，我們現在在規劃普惠科技，出來的都是這個圖，高齡者大概都是在醫院、養老院、藥局、公園、樂齡宅這些圈子裡面繞來繞去，只是讓你在繞的時候，因為有科技的協助比較方便而已。這個就太窄化了，我們對這些人設也是縮緊在這裡，所以經濟也是一樣，文化部不來啊！文化部不開發這些人的腦袋啊！文化部對於60歲的，你看他演那個戲劇上台一定是扮老妝，一定拿拐杖，這是文化部對高齡者的歧視。所以長照的「照」除了照顧，應該也是照亮，照亮你的第三人生，這裡就是一個產業。我們剛才在談的，勞動部跟衛福部就是下端在這裡，服務比較弱勢的；比較上端的這些有財富、有資源的，這邊就是如何再活化資產、如何發展長壽經濟，這就是我們金融單位跟經濟單位可以發展它的動力。","工商時報的社論也發現了這個問題，說壯世代可以捲起千堆雪，這裡我要跟經濟部長講，因為我看了你的觀念，我對你非常抱有希望。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：你談到了大健康經濟產業，其實現在聯合國也說，長壽經濟是21世紀最大的經濟動能，我們看這張圖，現在全球有6億的退休人口，其中有3億在東亞，東亞4國當中，包括臺灣、中國大陸有一個共同性就是儒家文化。儒家文化會讓高齡社會變得更嚴重，臺灣又最嚴重，臺灣沒有可以學習的對象，日本也不適合臺灣學習，臺灣如果能夠發展這樣一個長壽經濟的商業模式的話，未來會成為臺灣另外一座護國神山，可以輸出、產出，這就看經濟部了。我覺得理念你是相關的，因為你已經開始把這個大健康產業，不像以前健康的就只是養生、養病，你已經談到了精品時尚、美食等各方面，但是可能還要再更進一步地把壯世代美好的第三人生，包括要有電影啦、文化啦，所以一定要有文化部，不然你做不出什麼好的產品或作品出來，而導致沒有投資對象。","金管會也在場，現在我看金融方面資料，最近這幾年臺灣外流的資金達到20兆，流到國外，因為國內有風險，再加上沒有投資標的，所以錢都外流，對不對？怎麼樣把這些錢吸引回來？金管會上一任主委黃天牧那時候有講，他非常的認同，所以他承諾我要比照綠色金融行動方案，建立高齡金融行動方案，也提出了，包括從資金面、商品面、培力面、生態系面來規劃高齡金融，問題是這涉及到要各部會，也要財政部的配合，勞動部、衛福部、經濟部，各部會的配合，也都不是金管會一個部會做得來的。現在我們在立法院也成立壯世代政策及產業發展促進會（壯促會），目前有63個委員加入會員，民進黨委員有25位，國民黨有35位，還有民眾黨有8位，可以說這一個觀念是不分黨派一致贊成的，所以未來如果行政院願意來推這個，我想我們在立法院會大力的來支持。","但是現在所有的部會都在歧視高齡者，比如勞動部有中高齡就業法，我那時候就問勞動部部長，中高齡是幾歲？他說45歲，我說這樣不會太誇張嗎？出國念書回來都40歲了，45歲就要準備輔導待退，他說沒有辦法，那個不是他規定的，那個是上面。我想上面？院長，按照老人福利法，你現在就叫做法定老人了，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["吳委員春城：你拿到那個卡了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經用過了。"],["吳委員春城：用過了！OK，這個也是太離譜了，對不對？你看起來青春活力，還是帥哥一個，對不對？","還有交通部把75歲當危險分子，要沒收他的駕照。所有的，包括銀行、金融投資單位，65歲以上的人投資會受到很多的限制。我們都在歧視，所有人都說上面，都不是他幹的。那上面是指誰呢？就是院長。你再不做，這個事情無解了！不可能靠各部會。所以我籲請卓內閣能夠從這一個角度，在國家希望工程裡面，這是重中之重，三分之一的人口掌握三分之二的財富，結果「沐沐泅」，都倒下來當臥床族。院長，每一個部會針對這個要打破框架，因為我已經都跟每個部會溝通，我真的深深的發現，而且很多都認同，只是他們現在在各自單位的權責當中真的是無能為力，所以每一個部會都需要去溝通，瞭解它的定位來做這件事情。","我們的目標是把銀髮海嘯這一場災難變成國家發展的動力，所以我最後有一個請求，我要讓你好好的回答，就是超高齡社會壯世代政策推動小組，我要懇求院長，是否可以承諾設立這一個政院層級的專案推動小組，由副院長或者政委來督導？因為這件事情看起來一定是要有跨部門的，而且是體系龐大、長期的，經濟部也有很多需要協助，金管會也需要協助。院長，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝吳委員，就從剛剛吳委員把我們6位部長請到臺上來就知道，這絕對是一個跨部會要去執行完畢的事情。我很簡單跟委員報告，其實行政院一直有在努力，吳委員，你的觀察，你剛剛講了好多次，這不是你們的責任，謝謝吳委員的觀察，但是既然是延續過去八年來的成績向人民報告，我們就必須把這個責任承擔起來。其實過去我們在高齡社會白皮書提出了37項策略，105項具體措施，我們在因應超高齡社會對策方案有345項工作，在112到115的四年當中，要投入1,200億元，光今年就255億。另外，我們在高齡科技產業行動計畫裡面也有相關的規劃，中高齡就業計畫促進方案當中，剛剛跟委員報告過，已經有14.7萬的就業。也許到目前來看，我們還有一些必須整合的，所以也感謝委員的觀察，我們必須加強整合，這就是我們現在必須加強的。我會請專任的政委就這個部分提出完整的報告，至於你剛剛提的那個計畫，行政院用什麼樣的態度跟方式，我跟你承諾，我們一定會朝這個方向去做有效的規劃。"],["吳委員春城：好，因為行政院的態度關係臺灣世代的禍福，我也提到了一點，這不是為高齡者而做，包括年輕人，如果這些人躺下來了，那年輕人就被壓垮了。"],["卓院長榮泰：負擔就更大了。"],["吳委員春城：現在看起來所有的資源跟動能就在壯世代的手上，所以經濟部很重要，發展長壽經濟，就是年輕人未來可以無限的創業跟高薪，因為這些都是內需市場，創造這些需求出來，他們才有辦法，這個才可以解決少子化的生態系問題，靠這個國家養是沒有辦法的，那是救急的方法，要把生態系做起來，所以院長一定要有這個決心，我們要把一場銀髮海嘯的災難變成上帝的禮物。剛才院長有講要找陳時中政委來主導。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["吳委員春城：我跟他很好。"],["卓院長榮泰：那請委員多多的指教。"],["吳委員春城：疫情1,197天，每天的記者會都是我在配合他。"],["卓院長榮泰：感謝。"],["吳委員春城：基本上，我覺得這件事情院長很明確指定政委來規劃有關人口的政策……"],["卓院長榮泰：我要拜託政委能夠去詳實的瞭解問題，規劃出具體的方案。"],["吳委員春城：因為涉及到所有的部會做相關的配合，雖然我知道都有在做這個，因為我已經溝通過，每一個人都在做這部分，但是沒有整體的策略，最重要的是沒有把人設設定好，每一個人各自有各自的人設，每一個部會各自有各自的人設，而且這個人設基本上都還停留在銀髮族的思維裡面。院長，你自己就是壯世代，他所設計出來的產品，我可以跟你保證你都不會想用。但是我們現在所有的人都在做這件事情，因為人設錯誤，為什麼人設錯誤？因為我們現在上面的那個概念，就是把銀髮的觀念認為60歲就要退休，退休以後就遊山玩水，以前就是60歲以後的人生叫餘生，多餘出來的人生，現在叫第三人生，他有30年可以貢獻、可以產出、可以發展經濟。我們整個政府各單位沒有這個觀念，還是把它當餘生在處理，以人生收攤的一種觀念在設計各個部會的政策，所以這個一定要翻轉，他不是一個依賴者，而是身為生產者、消費者，所以這個真的是很有賴政委統合各部會，也需要變成一個專案小組，而不是只有講一講這樣子。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，未來我會督促我們的政委跟部會，誠如委員所說的，以個人的覺醒、企業的參與及國家政策三位一體的觀念，以壯世代為本位來制定一個壯世代的相關規劃。"],["吳委員春城：院長可不可以三個月之內提出針對整個人口壯世代的規劃？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會來規劃一個方向跟報告。"],["吳委員春城：可以喔？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第4號莊瑞雄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":27,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-16","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-31"],"gazette_id":"1135101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.960968750000003,"end":16.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.61471875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.73034375,"end":35.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.84846875,"end":33.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.51471875,"end":42.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.16346875,"end":53.001593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.197218750000005,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.298468750000005,"end":44.159093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.25471875,"end":54.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.705968750000004,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.962843750000005,"end":63.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.39221875,"end":66.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.24409375,"end":68.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.15096875,"end":72.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.42471875000001,"end":77.68971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.39846875,"end":80.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.45721875000001,"end":83.84909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.32159375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.79784375,"end":88.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.14784375,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.02096875000001,"end":92.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.45096875,"end":94.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.80096875000001,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.02034375000001,"end":95.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.08346875000001,"end":98.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.54721875,"end":99.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.69471875,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.82096875,"end":101.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.86284375000001,"end":106.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.32221875,"end":112.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.38534375,"end":109.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.85346875,"end":110.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.14034375000001,"end":110.15721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.17409375000001,"end":121.75034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.23971875000001,"end":124.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.95659375000001,"end":127.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.34471875000001,"end":125.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.34846875,"end":128.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.00659375,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.68534375000002,"end":133.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.07346875000002,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.12784375,"end":137.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.40596875,"end":142.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.41784375,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.94909375,"end":148.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.68284375000002,"end":152.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.01971875,"end":157.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.16659375,"end":160.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.61346875,"end":163.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.29221875000002,"end":165.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.82784375,"end":167.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.10596875000002,"end":169.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.52346875,"end":169.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.16471875000002,"end":174.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.06284375,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.46721875,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.29409375,"end":181.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.07846875,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.98471875,"end":189.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.39784375000002,"end":190.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.30909375000002,"end":192.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.18221875,"end":194.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.73471875,"end":195.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.73034375,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.87284375000002,"end":203.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.99909375000001,"end":208.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.16284375,"end":210.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.33971875,"end":211.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.44096875000002,"end":211.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.79534375,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.44909375,"end":213.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.58409375000002,"end":213.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.83721875,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.87471875000003,"end":225.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.03034375000001,"end":221.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.03784375,"end":226.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.59471875000003,"end":232.06221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.50096875000003,"end":236.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.32721875000001,"end":253.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.71534375000002,"end":237.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.78284375,"end":237.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.63284375,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.71284375000002,"end":263.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.38221875,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.33534375,"end":269.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.03096875,"end":277.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.80596875000003,"end":281.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.86034375,"end":284.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.81346875,"end":286.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.56846875,"end":291.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.68159375,"end":296.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.40659375,"end":297.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.40221875000003,"end":301.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.85721875,"end":302.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.49846875000003,"end":327.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.42284375,"end":338.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.13409375000003,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.90096875,"end":354.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.11471875,"end":360.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.44721875000005,"end":365.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.96534375000005,"end":369.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.39096875,"end":370.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.89284375,"end":373.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.89659375,"end":385.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.75534375,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.97659375,"end":402.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.34784375000004,"end":409.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.68846875,"end":414.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.51471875000004,"end":416.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.64096875,"end":422.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.37846875,"end":430.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.11971875,"end":437.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.36346875000004,"end":439.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.13534375,"end":439.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.28284375000004,"end":441.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.07159375000003,"end":444.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.67034375000003,"end":445.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.23971875,"end":446.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.99909375000004,"end":448.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.12534375,"end":450.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.43721875000006,"end":463.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.62096875000003,"end":464.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.15659375,"end":466.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.26596875,"end":468.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.56534375,"end":469.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.72971875,"end":475.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.37846875,"end":480.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.45784375000005,"end":481.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.07784375000006,"end":484.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.74846875000003,"end":503.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.78221875,"end":485.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.34284375000004,"end":489.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.91846875000005,"end":505.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.25971875000005,"end":509.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.77409375,"end":510.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.68534375,"end":513.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.99284375,"end":517.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.90784375,"end":532.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.3147187500001,"end":541.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.35971875,"end":546.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.2365937500001,"end":549.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.0715937500001,"end":550.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.26971875,"end":554.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.50971875,"end":555.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.6909687500001,"end":557.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.6315937500001,"end":563.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.3015937499999,"end":569.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.8997187500001,"end":572.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.44784375,"end":580.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.47596875,"end":596.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.0178437500001,"end":599.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.78534375,"end":602.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.86909375,"end":606.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.63659375,"end":612.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.82971875,"end":621.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.29659375,"end":622.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.7859687499999,"end":623.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.69721875,"end":624.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.1315937500001,"end":627.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.01721875,"end":633.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.2947187500001,"end":642.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.79971875,"end":645.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.9384687500001,"end":651.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.77721875,"end":652.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.74284375,"end":663.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.75846875,"end":668.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.6184687500001,"end":669.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.1372187500001,"end":677.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.52846875,"end":677.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.98409375,"end":679.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.9584687500001,"end":682.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.43909375,"end":683.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.14784375,"end":687.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.2822187500001,"end":693.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.40784375,"end":698.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.8078437500001,"end":713.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.8234687500001,"end":707.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.24471875,"end":711.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.9197187500001,"end":732.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.09784375,"end":743.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.49284375,"end":746.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.58096875,"end":751.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.69471875,"end":749.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.47471875,"end":751.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.5422187500001,"end":751.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.66034375,"end":751.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.7278437500001,"end":754.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.8459687500001,"end":766.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.56971875,"end":769.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.06284375,"end":789.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.90221875,"end":769.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":770.88096875,"end":771.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.27721875,"end":773.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.2240937500001,"end":798.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.45471875,"end":805.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":806.04846875,"end":807.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.61784375,"end":810.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":811.1953437500001,"end":821.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.84346875,"end":826.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.29846875,"end":827.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.70346875,"end":846.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":840.4397187500001,"end":840.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.91221875,"end":840.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.5065937500001,"end":851.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.29096875,"end":849.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.34534375,"end":850.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.05409375,"end":859.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.70284375,"end":864.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":864.38534375,"end":877.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":873.56534375,"end":873.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.21034375,"end":877.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.2609687500001,"end":880.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.88909375,"end":884.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":884.4665937500001,"end":886.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":886.4578437500002,"end":887.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":887.3859687500001,"end":913.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.77846875,"end":916.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.5503437500001,"end":916.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":916.3940937500001,"end":929.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.46471875,"end":923.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":929.84346875,"end":938.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.1472187500001,"end":930.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":930.1809687500001,"end":930.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":932.91471875,"end":933.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":934.48409375,"end":938.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.4497187500001,"end":953.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":942.6853437500001,"end":943.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.9509687500001,"end":945.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":949.5534687500001,"end":950.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":952.20284375,"end":952.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":953.2322187500001,"end":959.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":959.1553437500002,"end":959.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":959.22284375,"end":959.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":959.2397187500001,"end":967.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":959.4084687500001,"end":960.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":967.47471875,"end":972.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":972.41909375,"end":972.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":974.0559687500001,"end":974.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":975.37221875,"end":977.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":978.2578437500001,"end":982.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":983.08409375,"end":986.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":986.79659375,"end":996.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":996.6853437500001,"end":1010.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.8940937500001,"end":1015.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1015.5347187500001,"end":1027.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1028.44409375,"end":1048.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1048.4409687500001,"end":1051.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1052.0859687500001,"end":1065.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1066.0078437500001,"end":1070.1253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1070.6653437500001,"end":1074.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1075.0359687500002,"end":1076.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1077.1790937500002,"end":1082.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1082.96721875,"end":1083.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1084.26659375,"end":1086.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1086.8653437500002,"end":1087.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1087.9622187500001,"end":1093.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1093.96971875,"end":1097.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1098.32346875,"end":1098.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1099.0828437500002,"end":1103.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1104.4659687500002,"end":1109.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1109.4609687500001,"end":1110.0853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1110.7265937500001,"end":1117.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1112.8865937500002,"end":1113.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1117.57784375,"end":1122.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1123.2647187500002,"end":1128.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1128.83346875,"end":1137.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1137.97971875,"end":1153.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1153.74096875,"end":1179.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1179.4078437500002,"end":1184.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1184.3184687500002,"end":1199.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1193.1947187500002,"end":1193.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1193.22846875,"end":1193.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1193.2790937500001,"end":1193.3128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1193.3128437500002,"end":1193.4815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1193.4815937500002,"end":1193.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1199.86034375,"end":1200.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1201.80096875,"end":1204.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1204.5684687500002,"end":1228.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1229.0540937500002,"end":1231.7372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1232.1590937500002,"end":1251.6665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1252.0547187500001,"end":1257.0497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1257.65721875,"end":1259.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1260.20534375,"end":1264.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1265.1328437500001,"end":1279.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1279.99971875,"end":1281.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1281.5015937500002,"end":1283.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1284.20159375,"end":1288.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1288.3865937500002,"end":1288.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1289.0784687500002,"end":1293.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1289.1122187500002,"end":1289.6353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1293.34784375,"end":1293.8709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1294.3940937500001,"end":1299.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1299.7772187500002,"end":1300.3509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1300.53659375,"end":1305.6834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1306.00409375,"end":1316.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1317.2428437500002,"end":1319.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1320.07784375,"end":1324.0940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1324.4990937500002,"end":1338.1847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1338.5897187500002,"end":1341.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1341.9815937500002,"end":1345.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1346.2003437500002,"end":1354.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1354.97534375,"end":1355.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1355.78534375,"end":1361.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1361.99534375,"end":1368.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1369.6397187500002,"end":1372.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1373.36909375,"end":1374.5840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1375.2422187500001,"end":1383.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1384.1522187500002,"end":1389.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1390.10909375,"end":1393.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1393.19721875,"end":1393.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1394.2940937500002,"end":1398.7490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1399.0528437500002,"end":1400.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1400.3015937500002,"end":1400.3353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1400.3353437500002,"end":1400.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1400.95971875,"end":1401.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1401.0272187500002,"end":1401.2972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1401.2972187500002,"end":1401.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1401.36471875,"end":1401.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1401.3984687500001,"end":1401.4322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1401.4322187500002,"end":1402.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1401.5840937500002,"end":1402.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1403.2884687500002,"end":1405.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1406.14034375,"end":1408.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1408.51971875,"end":1409.3297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1409.51534375,"end":1411.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1411.9959687500002,"end":1414.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1415.16846875,"end":1416.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1416.99096875,"end":1420.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1421.2265937500001,"end":1422.9984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1423.2684687500002,"end":1424.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1424.3653437500002,"end":1425.5297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1425.9515937500003,"end":1426.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1426.7953437500003,"end":1428.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1428.9890937500002,"end":1436.7684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1430.6934687500002,"end":1430.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1437.1903437500002,"end":1439.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1440.05909375,"end":1441.5609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1441.9659687500002,"end":1442.5228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1442.97846875,"end":1448.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1449.34034375,"end":1450.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1451.1122187500002,"end":1453.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1453.6097187500002,"end":1454.1665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1454.3184687500002,"end":1459.9884687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1460.6297187500002,"end":1461.5072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1462.11471875,"end":1465.0003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1465.1522187500002,"end":1470.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1468.45971875,"end":1468.8309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1470.5353437500003,"end":1472.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1473.50534375,"end":1474.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1474.7372187500002,"end":1476.3909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1476.4922187500001,"end":1484.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1483.5628437500002,"end":1484.8284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1484.8284687500002,"end":1484.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1484.91284375,"end":1485.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1485.3009687500003,"end":1485.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1485.33471875,"end":1489.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1490.0090937500001,"end":1497.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1496.9109687500002,"end":1496.9278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1496.9278437500002,"end":1497.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1497.3328437500002,"end":1499.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1500.5390937500001,"end":1501.2815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1501.7540937500003,"end":1509.7697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1502.8340937500002,"end":1503.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1503.61034375,"end":1503.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1510.05659375,"end":1513.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1514.1065937500002,"end":1530.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1530.9140937500001,"end":1536.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1536.9722187500001,"end":1537.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1538.22096875,"end":1543.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1542.6253437500002,"end":1542.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1544.80221875,"end":1544.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1544.8359687500001,"end":1553.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1553.0372187500002,"end":1553.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1553.1384687500001,"end":1554.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1555.09596875,"end":1559.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1559.8209687500002,"end":1560.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1561.00221875,"end":1563.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1564.1072187500001,"end":1565.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1565.3897187500002,"end":1567.5328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1565.64284375,"end":1571.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1567.8028437500002,"end":1582.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1582.77096875,"end":1585.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1585.9265937500002,"end":1588.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1588.2047187500002,"end":1588.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1588.5759687500001,"end":1590.8709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1591.3097187500002,"end":1593.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1593.4022187500002,"end":1600.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1600.7597187500003,"end":1605.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1606.4465937500001,"end":1609.8890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1610.2940937500002,"end":1615.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1616.3690937500003,"end":1625.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1626.51096875,"end":1630.7128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1631.30346875,"end":1634.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1634.67846875,"end":1637.8509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1638.45846875,"end":1640.6690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1641.1922187500002,"end":1641.7490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1642.2384687500003,"end":1645.7315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1646.0184687500002,"end":1648.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1649.30909375,"end":1649.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1649.8828437500001,"end":1658.2697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1654.8272187500002,"end":1655.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1656.34596875,"end":1656.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1658.4722187500001,"end":1665.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1661.3409687500002,"end":1662.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1665.17159375,"end":1666.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1666.47096875,"end":1667.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1668.2428437500002,"end":1670.9090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1671.24659375,"end":1672.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1672.5965937500002,"end":1675.1278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1675.2797187500003,"end":1679.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1679.97096875,"end":1689.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1688.67846875,"end":1690.4672187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1690.8384687500002,"end":1691.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1692.03659375,"end":1696.0528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1693.0997187500002,"end":1693.8084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1696.5928437500002,"end":1698.3309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1698.4490937500002,"end":1699.1747187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.987,"end":17.708,"text":"委員好"},{"start":37.731,"end":57.153,"text":"恭喜你,單條國家重責大任。大家分工合作。對,大家一起要多合作,因為我想你提出的行動創新內閣還有國家希望的工程,還有我們現在新內閣的很多專業人士,"},{"start":58.041,"end":85.456,"text":"我看他們都信誓旦旦的很想有一份的作為也是令人期待但是呢我們同時也看到執政執政黨執政的政府這個讓風火滿天啊風火滿天所以呢這個院長你認為你未來前途是不是可以會是一個政治風火內閣還是民生建設內閣呢"},{"start":87.688,"end":87.728,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":107.606,"end":132.225,"text":"自己定位為福國利民的民生建設,這樣對人民比較有交代。民進黨跟國民黨都很練戰,就是大家黨的不亦樂乎。所以接下來這一個月應該也是都是陷在這個政治風火之中。不過民眾黨會支持你,台灣民眾黨是務實理性科學的政黨。所以呢今天我就不談這些了,我要跟你談民生建設。"},{"start":133.123,"end":161.543,"text":"好好的展開我想這也是我們的團隊所期待的國家希望功成這個臺灣在這個轉捩點上面那我在立法院這四個月來的我看到我們行政院最大的問題就缺乏整合就各搞各的每一個部會專業人才很多百花齊放但是我這一次看到早上的這一院長的這一份報告"},{"start":162.113,"end":189.613,"text":"我還是看到同樣的問題就是很多專業人士每一個人都想要自己做好自己但缺乏整合那所以呢我們所謂的這個創業生態系什麼叫生態系生態系一定是一個循環循環一定有供需供需一定這個世代而且要有一個中心價值觀這中心價值是幹什麼"},{"start":191.743,"end":208.459,"text":"應該以人為本是以人為本吼所以呢我現在看到了國家希望工程吼這個工具面都有了人才都有了但是缺了一點人味缺了一點人味吼這個提供給院長你能不能認同我們在家家長吼"},{"start":209.786,"end":236.453,"text":"這個以人民為主是的感謝委員的觀察早上的報告很多包括交通等等新創等等我都有提到以人為本但我希望我們共同努力他不是一句口號是一句我們真正把人民優先放在心上對我們希望就是現在要落實因為口號喊太多沒有用給院長看一下這一張圖我用這張圖跟所有的部會溝通過"},{"start":237.39,"end":239.609,"text":"讓我非常的震撼一點的就是"},{"start":240.063,"end":268.284,"text":"台灣明年就進入超高齡社會65歲佔人口的20%五個人就一個65歲以上老人接下來台灣會以全世界最快的速度進入高齡化社會同時也帶來少子化高齡化跟少子化是一體之兩面我們看1970年代我們人口結構圖是這樣子當時年齡的中位數是19.3歲也就是說一半的人口在19歲以下"},{"start":270.083,"end":276.629,"text":"到2040年我們的人口中位數是52.4歲也就是說一半的人在52歲以上"},{"start":279.091,"end":300.341,"text":"這就是臺灣天翻地覆的然後呢但是呢我們看到我看到這個各行政部門在規劃高齡政策都是停留在1970年代的用那樣子的一個金字塔型的思維在規劃各個政策那這個高齡化少子化被說是國安問題這個未來臺灣有龐大的高齡化人口"},{"start":305.684,"end":320.505,"text":"然後這個高齡化跟少子化貫穿所有的政策但是我們現在幾乎都把它歸於在衛福部然後其他的部會都是插花性質教育部、文化部做了一些什麼高齡的等一下我就會介紹請他們上來"},{"start":321.565,"end":345.511,"text":"幾乎大家都都非常歡慰那這會帶來一個非常嚴重的問題甚至是一個仇恨的社會是一個死水的經濟是一個停滯的社會所以我提出了壯世代為什麼因為這一群人我們為什麼會用這樣的對待他們因為我們都稱他們叫老人啦銀髮族啦樂齡族一碰到老大家都覺得沒興趣了"},{"start":346.031,"end":364.258,"text":"對阿就覺得他們準備報銷了現在是放在倉庫準備報銷的人阿所以就付一點點管理費存在大概都處於類似這種狀態但是這些人長壽社會來臨這些人會有30年第三人生現在壯世代是指55家以上現在台灣55歲以上有800萬人"},{"start":366.487,"end":384.357,"text":"八百萬人沒有政策沒有產業所以成為一個圈圈方向所以給他我們所以是一場社會運動社會運動第一件事情就要先證明給他一個新的身份稱叫做壯士代那也希望台灣會成為全球在這一個高齡化的典範"},{"start":386.986,"end":401.105,"text":"雙世代有三支箭提出的因為我們解決高電化大家就想用科技的方式解決或者用健康的方式解決就想單一面向其實這是八百萬人的事情三十年的人生的問題而且這些人掌握三分之二台灣的財富"},{"start":402.506,"end":430.059,"text":"而且大部分的智能經驗在他們腦袋裡面但是我們把它荒廢了我們把它當作一場災難所以提出三支箭第一支箭叫PSR personal就是個人的覺醒那我現在請教育部跟文化部的部長先上來因為在教育部跟文化部裡面就是關於這個要一個覺醒人民但是我們教育部跟文化部現在沒有在做這件事情我要問文化部"},{"start":431.195,"end":450.736,"text":"文化部現在這個目前跟你們都沒有責任這是以前的事情但是希望你們不會延續就是高齡相關預算只有3500萬在文化部的預算的0.2%其實教育部也是中生學習室的預算3.4億也是在教育部"},{"start":451.457,"end":452.558,"text":"今天明年大學畢業生一腳踏出校園就進入什麼社會?"},{"start":481.516,"end":507.713,"text":"副長明年是什麼社會?超高齡社會一腳都踏進超高齡社會這個孩子30歲的時候2030年臺灣一半人口超過50歲這個孩子40歲的時候一半人口超過60歲這是臺灣未來但是我問過所有的教育大學裡面的人他們怎麼告訴孩子你們未來的社會是什麼社會?是一個青春無敵的社會會不會太離譜了?"},{"start":510.788,"end":531.676,"text":"教育的目的不就培養未來要去什麼戰場嗎?戰場都講錯了,你現在的教育幾乎等於是說方向都錯誤,包括文化也是一樣。我們現在是不是都認為,關你這個狀態的文化部做了什麼,重視什麼,一切都好像年輕,但是這個是無法解決年輕人的問題的,因為這邊的龐大的英法海嘯,"},{"start":532.327,"end":540.378,"text":"所以呢這件事情我也跟院長報告我已經跟所有部會溝通過了沒有人有辦法解決這個事情這個必須要有遠見的領導人"},{"start":543.401,"end":569.027,"text":"院長如果沒有這個認知的話這事情無解。我們現在銀髮族臥床8年以上。龐大的人口未來年輕人沒有希望了。壯世代是有觀念就是30年健康愚民。銀髮族包括我們的產業都是在醫院跟在醫院的路上。事實上壯世代是要渴望自我實現貢獻社會而且促進那個世代的循環。"},{"start":570.428,"end":580.02,"text":"整個人色都不一樣那我們要去翻轉我們現在政府沒有這個目前是停留在引法思維底下來規劃所有的政策"},{"start":581.773,"end":603.939,"text":"從一個舉一個例子從數位落差我們現在數位簡單的各方面都一樣數位落差當中我們現在都在做這個數位部在做城鄉數位落差城鄉數位落差最嚴重的地方就落差20%而已但是最大的落差在台北市中心台北市中心明明的落差高達60%不聞不問數位部都不聞不問"},{"start":606.687,"end":631.319,"text":"因為只要碰到高齡者,大家都不聞不問,就是目前的狀況。但是這事情也很難處理,因為教育部管一點數位教育,文化部做數位內容,NCC做數位建設,反正每一個部會都管一點,最後等沒有人再管。第二個,第二次見請兩位部長可以休息。我要談G2,兩位部長可以休息。"},{"start":631.786,"end":649.507,"text":"第二支箭要談GSR就是government政府的解套現在政府這個問題是非常大的壓力但是目前我看起來是束手無策的那我請這個勞動部長還有衛福部長在我們這個高齡的政策當中就教兩部"},{"start":655.782,"end":681.162,"text":"我要請問衛福部還有勞動部這個我們的社會當中當然在為60歲前規劃60歲以後的人生60歲以後做什麼在衛福部的想像是什麼在勞動部的想像我現在謝謝勞動部現在許明春部長非常支持壯時代我不曉得何部長會不會繼續支持你會不會因為現在很多高級壯時代重返職場"},{"start":683.215,"end":696.484,"text":"是 感謝委員確實我們在2020年勞動部我們跟立法院合作推動的這個週高齡就業專訪之後那麼其實這三年來已經促進了14.5萬的"},{"start":698.746,"end":700.348,"text":"所以現在基本上剛才講了60歲以後的人現在有600萬人,現在退休的人有600萬。"},{"start":719.888,"end":745.106,"text":"這六百萬沒什麼啦,就是你玻璃市委政府跟你就解約啦,等到你倒下來以後給你長照。這是去年2023年行政院所提出來超高齡社會對策,然後呢提出的這個大概就是他的大綱啦。我那時候問過陳建仁院長,我說院長這個是要給你用的,哪些東西會讓你動心啊,你有什麼需要,他說他都沒需要。那個應該我們卓院長應該更不會啦,不過你也是屬於適用對象。"},{"start":747.027,"end":754.233,"text":"謝謝吳委員今天要不是站在這裡我就是你關心的壯世代所以我願意跟你一起關心那八百萬的壯世代所以我願意跟吳委員一起我們一同關懷那八百萬的壯世代"},{"start":772.087,"end":788.185,"text":"現在包括社府、衛福部現在在這裡我們幾乎把說的錢高齡者都押在衛福部了所以衛福的其他部會都是插花就好了現在已經到了8千億了社府到8千億難道要破萬億嗎而且只能照顧到15%這個社府的政策思維應該要調整"},{"start":789.346,"end":805.458,"text":"OK,再來就是我們很多的經濟上面擔心的扶養比啦,就是因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大嘛,高齡化,然後這工作人口就當分母,就因為少子化就越來越小嘛,到2057年分子會大於分母。"},{"start":807.699,"end":820.505,"text":"我沒有看到有任何人在解這個解方,所以都做一點做一點,我不曉得包括我們的希望國家希望工程有沒有解到這個問題,就是這個人上面的這個人口學是不可逆的,這上面的人這麼多,"},{"start":821.926,"end":850.101,"text":"然後會大雨,到2057年會大雨分子,這個怎麼解啊?委員,容我跟大家報告,其實謝謝您關心我們台灣的高齡長照社會,但是其實高齡就像我們之前看到的,事實上高齡不應該是認為他就是所謂的依賴人口。我非常贊成您所說的,我們要讓我們的高齡者其實要健康而且要跟社區...很棒,這個衛福部現在有這個前瞻的觀念了。是,他要跟社區連結。所以我們的思維都要與時俱進。"},{"start":851.622,"end":879.791,"text":"其實現在4年我們有1200億的案子這個案子跨15個部會所以不是說大家插花是我們一起來處理我知道這個要做的事情更多那我們的策略當中就是要把分子拉下來當分母把分子撞起來也就是讓這些剛才我們次長講的不是被依賴者是繼續做一個生產者跟消費者所以勞動部就很重要未來這件事情擔當的重任的是勞動部"},{"start":880.811,"end":880.931,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":896.548,"end":896.668,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":914.069,"end":937.038,"text":"回歸勞動自由權,部長可以嗎?是,謝謝委員。我很感謝委員,這個上個月您跟在外防委員會跟這個我們執政黨的王振旭委員一起提案通過了勞基法第54條的修正案。在65歲以後只要勞資雙方協議就可以延長退休了。這真的是一個非常好的一個修法。"},{"start":938.539,"end":966.032,"text":"我也知道勞動部門現在做但是我們現在算是一個起步應該要更大的包括荷蘭做彈性工作的重新設計彈性的工作地點彈性工時可以讓這些人變成工作的很快樂貢獻他的心力跟委員報告我們現在也正在演你這個對勞動者有利的彈性工作時間安排好謝謝兩位部長然後接下來接下來我要談CSR最重要的我們解決這個領軍的"},{"start":967.753,"end":982.024,"text":"高齡事務不要把它當負擔,我們請今晚會主委還有經濟部長。高齡不是引發海嘯,而是可以翻轉為國家發展的大動力。"},{"start":983.117,"end":1005.371,"text":"我們經濟部長很有這方面的思維那天跟你聊過這叫世代的經濟世代經濟這個世代財富的移轉龐大的財富在壯賽受力我們現在把它鎖死了導致於年輕世代失去經濟的動能然後就不敢結婚不敢生小孩造成少子化後來變成躺平族"},{"start":1005.891,"end":1006.311,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":1028.527,"end":1051.226,"text":"所以但是我們經濟不原來的,我說也不是你的責任,我們在規劃現在叫普惠科技,出來的都是這個圖,大概這些高齡者也就是在醫院、養老院、藥局、公園、熱齡宅這些圈子裡面繞來繞去,只是讓你繞的時候因為有科技的協助比較方便而已,這個就太宅化,我們對這些人設也是"},{"start":1052.23,"end":1052.551,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":1070.754,"end":1096.421,"text":"所以長照這個照除了照顧應該是照亮照亮你的第三人生這裡就是一個產業我們剛才在談的勞動部跟衛福部就是下端在這裡比較弱勢的比較上端的這些有財富有資源這就是如何活化資產如何發展長壽經濟這就是我們金融單位跟經濟單位可以把它發展的動力"},{"start":1098.379,"end":1103.428,"text":"那工商時報的社論也發現這問題說壯世代可以捲起千堆學"},{"start":1104.542,"end":1119.512,"text":"那這裡我要跟經濟部長講因為我看了你的觀念我覺得對你非常抱以希望你談到了這個大健康經濟產業其實現在聯合國也說長壽經濟是21世紀最大的經濟動能我們看這張圖現在全球6億的退休人口其中有3億在東亞東亞四國當中包括台灣"},{"start":1131.46,"end":1152.596,"text":"中國大陸有一個共同性就叫農家文化,農家文化會讓高齡社會變得更嚴重,所以台灣如果能夠從這裡,台灣又是這個最嚴重台灣沒有可以學習的對象,日本也不適合台灣學習,台灣如果能夠發展這樣的一個長壽經濟的商業模式的話,未來會成為台灣另外一座的護國神山。"},{"start":1153.817,"end":1178.872,"text":"可以輸出產出那這就看經濟部我覺得理念你是相關的因為你已經開始把這個大健康產業不像以前那個健康的就是只是養生養病你已經談到了精品時尚啦美食啦你有各方面但是可能還更進一步有把壯實在的美好第三包括要有電影啊文化人你要文化部不然你做不出什麼好好的產品出來好作品出來"},{"start":1180.02,"end":1180.28,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":1201.9,"end":1228.339,"text":"上那個黃天牧那時候你有講他非常的認同所以他承諾我要比照綠色金融的行動方案建立高齡金融行動方案那也提出了包括從資金面、商品面、培力面、生態系面要來規劃這個高齡金融但是問題這涉及到要各部會 財政部的配合、勞動部、衛福部、經濟部各位的配合也都不是金管會一個部會做得來的"},{"start":1229.699,"end":1256.608,"text":"所以這事情然後現在我們在立法院也成立壯士在政策產業發展促進會壯士會現在有63個委員加入會員民進黨委員有25位國民黨有35位還有民眾黨有8位所以可以說這一個觀念是不分黨派一致贊成的所以未來如果行政院願意來推這個我想我們在立法院會大力的來支持"},{"start":1257.688,"end":1281.92,"text":"但是現在所有的部會都在歧視高齡者。那我講的像比如勞動部有中高齡就業法,我就問勞動部,我那時候問部長說中高齡是幾歲?他說45歲。我說這樣不太好,出國念書回來都40歲,45歲就準備輔導待退這樣子。他說沒有辦法,那也不是他規定的啊,那個上面啊。我想說上面,然後這個院長,"},{"start":1284.261,"end":1305.407,"text":"按照老人福利法你現在就會被叫做法定老人你應該拿到那個卡了沒有?已經用過了這個也是太離譜了對不對?你看起來這個青春活力還是帥哥一個所以交通部要把75歲當危險的份子要沒收他的駕照"},{"start":1306.532,"end":1318.84,"text":"所有的包括銀行金管投資單位你65歲以上能投資受到很多的限制我們都在歧視了所有人都是上面都不是他幹的那上面是指誰呢?就是院長你"},{"start":1320.117,"end":1341.196,"text":"你再不做這個事情無解了,不可能靠客部會。所以呢每一個我預請卓內閣能夠從這個角度在國家希望工程裡面這是重中之重,三分之一人口掌握三分之二財富,結果沒收啦,沒收然後呢都倒下來當臥床主。"},{"start":1342.428,"end":1368.078,"text":"每一個部會針對這個院長要打破框架我因為我已經都每個部會都溝通我真的深深的發現而且很多都認同只是他們現在在他各自的單位的選擇當中真的是無能為力所以每一個部會需要去溝通他的定位來做這件事情接下來我們的目標是把英法海嘯一場災難變成國家發展動力所以我最後有一個請求"},{"start":1369.67,"end":1393.589,"text":"我要請求院長,因為我要讓你好好的回答就是超高齡社會壯世代政策推動小組我要請院長,懇求院長是否可以承諾來設定這一個政院那個專案推動小組由副院長或者政委來督導是不是因為這件事情看起來一定是要有跨部門的而且是"},{"start":1397.831,"end":1420.345,"text":"謝謝吳委員就從剛剛吳委員把我們六位部長請到台上來就知道這絕對是一個跨部會要去執行完畢的事情那我很簡單跟吳委員報告其實行政院一直有在努力而吳委員你的觀察你剛剛講了好多次這不是你們的責任"},{"start":1421.586,"end":1447.828,"text":"謝謝吳委員的觀察但是既然是延續的過去8年來的成績向人民做報告我們就必須把這個責任承擔起來其實過去我們在高齡社會白皮書提出了37項的策略105項的具體措施我們在因應超高齡社會對策方案有345項的工作在112跟115四年當中要投入1200億元光今年就255億"},{"start":1449.389,"end":1472.698,"text":"另外我們在高齡科技產業行動計劃裡面也有相關的規劃中高齡就業計劃促進方案當中剛剛跟委員報告過已經有14.7萬的就業那我覺得這樣子也許到目前來看我們還有一些必須整合的所以感謝委員您的觀察我們必須加強整合這就是我們現在必須加強的我會請我們專任的政委"},{"start":1473.567,"end":1500.837,"text":"就這個部分提出完整的報告至於行政院用什麼樣的一個態度跟方式你剛剛提的那個計畫我跟你承諾我們一定會朝這個方向去做有效的規劃那是不是因為這個行政院的這個態度有關臺灣世代的祸福我也提到了一點這不是為高齡者而做包括年輕人包括年輕人如果這些人躺下來了"},{"start":1501.789,"end":1502.209,"text":"吳春城議員吳春城議員吳春城議員"},{"start":1531.028,"end":1543.603,"text":"所以院長一定要這個決心我們要把一場英法海嘯災難變成上帝的禮物所以剛才院長有講要找我們陳時中政委來主導我跟他很好"},{"start":1544.858,"end":1567.852,"text":"那請委員多多的指教所以呢就所以呢是不是他疫情1197天都是我在配合他的每天的記者會對不對所以呢基本上我覺得說這件事情就是院長有很明確要來指定我們政委我要拜託政委能夠去詳細的瞭解問題規劃出來一個具體的方案這個政策"},{"start":1573.295,"end":1599.71,"text":"因為涉及到所有的部會相關的配合因為雖然現在剛才我知道都有在做這個做這個因為我已經溝通了每一個人都在做每一個人都在做這部分但是沒有整體的策略最重要是沒有把那個人設設定好每一個人的人設各自有各自的人設每一個部會各自有各自的人設而且這個人設基本上都還停留在銀髮族的思維裡面沒有正式就是說院長你自己就是裝時代"},{"start":1601.176,"end":1625.403,"text":"他所設計的產品出來我可以跟你保證你都不會想用你都不會想用但是我們現在所有人都在做這件事情因為人設錯誤為什麼人設錯誤因為我們現在那個上面那個概念就是把銀髮的觀念認為你60歲就要退休退休以後就游山玩水以前就是60歲以後的人生叫餘生"},{"start":1626.55,"end":1626.75,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":1650.071,"end":1664.424,"text":"所以這個一定要翻轉,他要不是一個依賴者,成為生產者、消費者。所以這個真的是很有賴於政委,然後我們統合各部會,也需要變成一個專業小組而不是就講一講這樣子。"},{"start":1665.205,"end":1686.777,"text":"未來我會督促我們的政委跟部會,成如委員所說的,以個人的覺醒,企業的參與,跟國家政策,三位一體的觀念,我們以壯世代為本位,來制定壯世代相關有的規劃。所以院長可不可以三個月之內來提出壯世代,整個對人口壯世代這樣的規劃。我們會來規劃一個方向跟報告。可以喔。"},{"start":1692.093,"end":1692.113,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}