{"error":false,"id":["153434"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153434,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153434","日期":"2024-05-31","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-31T14:58:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-31T15:14:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63981a741ba438d0d7f8537861b3753ee212215d61b9ffb2389ed5ff4c6e923b796e9676d7a8fdab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"14:58:54 - 15:14:36","會議時間":"2024-05-31T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議（事由：一、行政院院長報告施政方針並備質詢。\n二、5月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、本次會議不處理臨時提案。）","gazette":{"lineno":892,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（14時58分）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：再請卓院長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：還有我們陸委會主委。"],["主席：再請陸委會主委備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長好，先恭喜你，跟你當朋友30年，看你今天可以當上院長，為國家來服務。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員多多幫忙。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這一定的，但是我先介紹一首歌，楊丞琳有一首歌叫做「狼來了，誰是下一個受害者？」我今天其實看到兩條新聞，一條新聞是在講臺灣因為整個AI出口強勁，經濟成長率上調到3.94%，但是又看到另外一條，老共、中國那邊就片面再砍掉ECFA134項關稅的減讓。本席記得去年總統大選前、逼近12月，那個時候中國也片面砍了我們ECFA12項，當初我記得國發會龔明鑫主委說，整個ECFA占臺灣整個經濟出口產值不到4%，所以影響不大。但這一次高達134項，你看，連沒有邀請的經濟部長都站上來了，就代表事情有一點點嚴重。但是部長，你先不用緊張，本席在意的還不只這個，這個部分我相信院長、整個行政團隊會說我們來分散市場，我們產品再來升級，甚至可以再來跟他們溝通。我們也都很清楚，中國跟臺灣都是WTO的會員，問題是，它這種就是用政治力片面對臺灣造成經濟上的壓迫，所以陸委會主委今天也出來講話，他說中國要自己負最後的責任，對不對？但是文明的政府去跟中國這樣一個比較專制的政府對話其實沒有意義。本席更擔心的是什麼？我請陸委會主委要特別注意。經濟部長先請回。中國江蘇在今年4月份實施一個政策，鼓勵他們郵寄快遞的從業人員做「抓耙仔」，提供高額的獎金，也可以用匿名的方式檢舉哪一些人去影響到他的國安。本來我們新政府上來以後是想說，兩岸人民之間看能不能比較和平地交流，但看起來沒有欸！它的起手式就砍你關稅減讓134項，然後它的起手式馬上跟你說，鼓勵它的郵寄人員可以用匿名的方式、高額獎金的方式來檢舉。其實我們政府並沒有限制我們人民到中國去，我們民眾也有去那裡旅遊的，也有很多記者在那裡，甚至一些學者會參訪，我不曉得面對這樣嚴峻的情勢，陸委會要如何來幫我們民眾？比如說，要降低人民到中國去的風險，我們總不能每次都說，你去中國要提高警覺，我相信政府的責任不應該只有這樣，就教陸委會主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指教，有關您提到早上ECFA的早收清單被終止的問題，這是一個典型的經濟脅迫，無助於兩岸關係。我們認為兩岸不管是在WTO的架構或者是ECFA的機制裡頭，都應該透過協商來解決這個問題，畢竟用經濟脅迫、扭曲兩岸正常經濟互利互惠的機制，對兩岸的產業都會帶來傷害。剛剛委員也提到，中國大陸最近制定了很多國家安全法律，造成它以安全壓倒發展，包括我們學界的朋友、各界的人士到中國都受到很多的盤查，以及各種國安方面紅線的恐懼，使得我們在施作民調也有一個部分，因為中國大陸最近相當多國安方面的法律跟施行細則出來，有百分之六十五的人現在對中國大陸都會感到恐懼而不敢去。除了會不斷地跟國人宣導之外，我們還是呼籲中國大陸應該要友善對待我們的國人，畢竟我們臺商對中國大陸的經濟發展帶來的貢獻是有目共睹的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：如果它不聽呢？主委，我知道你會說這些啦！但是我覺得政府的責任其實不應該只有這些，我們官方的態度可以理解，但是重點在於我們擔心的是萬一，你要有一個援助的機制，你看傅崐萁帶了整團的國民黨去，像猴群一樣帶了一團過去，回來跟我們說什麼？他說，現在兩岸要迎來春暖花開。今天5月31號，要6月了，哪有春暖花開？我很想吐槽他，開個屁啊！哪有什麼春暖花開！這個看一看喔，本席又想到江蕙的一首歌「繁華攏是夢」啦！6月啦！要夏天了，你知不知道？這叫夏日炎炎，我整個頭殼好像也開始要發炎了，你知不知道？好，陸委會主委請回，本席還有其他議題要關心，請經濟部郭部長上臺，還有國發會主委也請上臺。","我要就教院長，臺灣的整個能源政策，從2016年蔡政府上臺以後就非核、減碳，我今天還很仔細地聽了院長的施政報告，2050年的淨零碳排部分，都是展現政府的魄力。在此我要請教院長，核一、核二都已經除役了，我記得在1992年時，老總統李登輝核定了在龍門興建核四，1992年老總統李登輝之所以核准興建核四，其實是那個時候大家已經喊了好幾年，認為臺灣未來經濟要發展，會缺電。嘿！三十年過去了，核四沒有蓋起來，核一、核二除役，我很擔心啦，現在就剩下一個核三，院長，你知道核三什麼時候要除役？一號機什麼時候要除役？"],["卓院長榮泰：今年7月。"],["莊委員瑞雄：只剩個把月而已，7月27號。二號機明年5月17號除役，這些都在我們屏東。我們那邊本來是國家公園，你應該有去過，漂亮得不得了。夭壽！旁邊卻弄一個核三廠在那邊，我比較擔心啦！部長你不要笑，屏東也算是你的故鄉，當然到最後你會說，不用怕！核三占6%而已，我們有大潭、我們有森霸，我們會接起來。但是我比較擔心的是，我就講明了啦，院長、部長，還有主委，核三你們會延役嗎？會如期除役嗎？大哉問喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，依照現行法律來看，核三廠經過40年的使用，那也是當初我們跟人民的承諾，依照現在的核管法，它應該已經逾越了5年期限，所以目前來看，今年7月的除役變成是一個法定必須要進行的程序。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這陣子我聽到我們內閣裡經濟部郭部長的一些談話，本席也是非常有感，你問全民，當然，如果電夠的話，大家都要非核家園，但是這個基本價值又是民進黨的神主牌，郭部長的講法是最重要就是要安全，核廢料要有辦法處理，全民才會有共識。部長，我跟你講啦！一般民眾的想法，經濟部長本來就是要發展經濟，一定會幫你拍拍手啦，但常常牽扯到政黨之間的基本價值，我實在很煩惱啦！我記得賴總統似乎也曾經講過，就算除役也不是全部廢掉，搞不好還可以當作緊急狀況時的戰備。什麼時候會有緊急狀況不知道嘛！但我想知道的是，你們都說依法，這個依法屆時會不會改變？你說依法，國民黨現在要修核管法，現在國會在野黨是多數，一修法律就過了，過了以後，院長、部長，你們的看法如何？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，如果修法過了，我們就依法行事。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那就麻煩了！「依法行事」這個說法，兩邊聽起來感受就都不一樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣的依法行事，就是核三繼續運轉嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們怎麼不用核一、核二，偏偏要用我們核三呢？這樣好奇怪咧！修法通過以後，哪有什麼修法通過後，一定是吃我們核三夠夠！也可以用核一、核二啊！是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：容許我跟委員報告，在修法的過程當中，我還是認為大院可以經過很充分的討論，所有民間公民團體和在地居民為主的意見，必須受到很清楚跟慎重的對待，所以這個修法的過程，到底會不會修、會修成什麼樣，現在我們沒有辦法預先預測。當然在修法完成之後，只要是經過程序正義合法的修法，在行政院的立場，我們對法的內容來執行，但執行的時候，我們必須有一個安全的屏障在這裡。"],["莊委員瑞雄：但是院長，我還是要苦口婆心地講，假設真的修法通過了，我還是比較贊同郭部長所講的，即核燃料有辦法處理，還是要保證安全，還是全民要有共識啦！不然修法是穩過的……"],["卓院長榮泰：對，這就是我們的原則。"],["莊委員瑞雄：國民黨的基本價值、神主牌就是擁核，跟民進黨是格格不入的！"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是我們的原則，沒有錯！部長幾次對外的講話就是這樣的意思跟原則。"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒有錯的話，這樣我就比較安心了，最好不要是核三，要考慮核一和核二，這樣比較公平啦！","兩位請回，院長留著，其實也只剩院長可以問而已。院長，我陪你去韓國瑜院長那邊拜訪的時候，你提到打詐四法以及體育部的問題。關於升格的問題，我都認為體育部不是只有升格的問題，它最主要還是改革的問題。我都一直認為體育部如果升格的話，因為院長剛就任，我認為應該把它當成一件喜事來辦，這個在整個體育界裡面，大家都希望它是一件喜事，但是最怕遇到西北雨。過去的體育署常常被人家笑，說你們在乎的都只是看有沒有辦法奪牌以及奪多少牌，可是以現狀來看，院長幹過臺北市議員，你很清楚朱崙街那邊的體育署差不多已經變成單項協會的提款機。我現在是把人民的聲音，尤其是體育界的聲音帶給院長、帶給新的團隊，有這個期待，就是加把勁趕快做出一個成績，但問題是人總也很清楚這個不只牽扯到組織法的問題，你要多一個部，除非你消滅一個部，就有這個問題，你又有總員額法的問題啊！加拿大跟韓國是文化、觀光、體育三合一，法國是運動青年教育共同生活部，我請院長簡單聲明你的方向是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，如果要讓未來可能的體育及運動發展部能夠成為一個更有權責的專責機構，我們當然是想朝向單一設部這樣的方向來進行，所以未來組織法必須經過一陣子討論，我們希望能夠打破現在的這種規模，讓我們有餘裕的空間，就中央行政機關組織基準法來做相關的配合，我也希望未來的體育及運動發展部應該發展的是全民體育，而不是菁英體育。早上我有講過，我希望部部都是文化部，季季都是觀光季，人人都是體育人，我的用意就在這裡。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我也很關心我們的籃球，以我個人的經驗裡面，我以籃球為例，就我們的國家選手而言，從選手的保險、後勤的編制，到最近在吵的整個出賽費用的種種問題，凸顯整個機關對於這個協會的管考跟輔導真的沒有發揮功能。我還看賴總統去參加全中運的時候，他說希望體育部未來升格以後，把它變成體育運動產業部。如果可以這樣把它加進去的話，我建議院長加速去研議，趕快讓它誕生，符合人民的期待，當做是在辦喜事，運動界、體育界一定會非常贊同，也會給你掌聲。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員幫我們推一把，也請院長能夠來協助，我們讓體育及運動發展部能夠成為運動產業大家希望的發展方向。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，院長加油！"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","跟院會報告，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是新北市林口國中的同學，國家未來的主人翁，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來請登記第5號洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":27,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-16","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-31"],"gazette_id":"1135101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6.342218750000001,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.57784375,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.649093750000002,"end":15.302843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.302843750000001,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.353468750000001,"end":16.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start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:336.467,"end":353.033,"text":"主委,我知道你會說這些啦,但是我是覺得政府的責任其實不應該只有這一些啦,這官方我們的態度這個可以理解嘛但是重點是說我們擔心的是說萬一啊,你要有一個援助的一個機制啊"},{"start":354.039,"end":378.624,"text":"你看,副軍旗這樣帶一團國民黨的人,我們九三這樣帶一團回去跟他們說什麼?他們說,好,現在兩岸在迎來春暖花開。今天五月三十一日要落月了,還有春暖花開。我就是想吐槽,開個屁啊,哪有什麼春暖花開。這看一看,本時就又想到江蕙的一首歌,《繁華攏是夢》。"},{"start":380.819,"end":382.879,"text":"從臺灣的整個能源的一個政策"},{"start":409.568,"end":430.907,"text":"從201616年蔡政府上臺以後就飛河我們檢探我今天很仔細的去聽了院長你的施政報告我們2050年的競排這個部分這個都是展現政府的一個魄力但是我要請教了合一跟合二這個都已經除役了"},{"start":432.489,"end":459.559,"text":"我記得在1992年老總統李登輝那個時候他核定了去興建了在龍門興建那個和室1992年老總統李登輝之所以核准了就是說要興建和室那個時候大家其實已經喊了幾年台灣未來經濟要發展了30年經過了和室沒有蓋起來和一和二除役了"},{"start":460.612,"end":473.817,"text":"我很擔心,現在說剩下一個河山,河山你一定知道當時要處理了,一號機當時要處理了,今年七月,又五月而已,七月二十七號。二號機每年五月十七,這都在我旁邊。"},{"start":478.103,"end":502.555,"text":"我那本地的國家公園,漂亮得你也起來,有夠漂亮的,旁邊有個夭壽給你創一個河山場地啊。我比較擔心,在北京你不要笑,屏東也算你的故鄉。所以當然你到最後你說還不用怕,河山佔60%而已。我有那個大潭,我有森大,我也接起來。但是我比較擔心的就是說,我就講明了啦。你中,北京,要注意,河山你們會演繹的,會如期處理的。"},{"start":507.881,"end":511.424,"text":"我昨天其實我也有去聽到這陣子我聽到我們內閣裡面我們經濟部長、國務部長的一些談話本席也是非常有感"},{"start":538.377,"end":546.638,"text":"當然你就問全民說電購的話大家當然都要回合家園啦啊但是呢這一個基本的一個價值又是民進黨的神主牌啦"},{"start":548.002,"end":574.229,"text":"國部長的講法是說,我就要想你要安全啊,合會之後我就要處理啊,全民我就要有共識啊。部長我跟你講啦,站在一般民眾的想法就是說,你這經濟不對,你不對就是發展經濟,一定會把你打破啦。但是常常牽扯到政黨之間的基本價值的時候,我實在是吃煩惱啦。我記得我們賴總統他有一句講,似乎好像也曾經去講過,"},{"start":577.045,"end":604.313,"text":"呃...就算出議齁,也不是全部都要給我廢掉啦齁,搞不好還可以當一個戰備,可以當一個緊急,緊急狀況,什麼時候會有緊急狀況不知道嘛。那我想知道的就是說,你們講的都講依法,依法,啊這依法到時會變了,你要講依法齁,國民黨現在要給你修合管法咧,那現在國民、在野黨現在是多數咧,一修法律就過了咧,啊過了以後,"},{"start":606.645,"end":615.872,"text":"這樣一定嗎?你會看完嗎?你會看完嗎?報告委員,如果修法過了,我們就依法行事。這就麻煩了,依法行事這聽起來兩邊聽起來感覺都不一樣了。依法行事就是"},{"start":628.181,"end":628.762,"text":"韓國瑜報告"},{"start":645.021,"end":662.268,"text":"榮許跟委員報告在修法的過程當中我還是認為大院裡面可以經過很充分的討論以及所有的民間的公民團體跟在當地的居民為主的一個意見必須受到很清楚跟慎重的對待所以這個修法的過程"},{"start":662.648,"end":691.127,"text":"到底會不會修會修成什麼樣現在我們沒有辦法預先做預測那當然在修法結完成之後只要是經過程序正義合法的修法在行政院上行政院的立場我們去最法的內容來做執行但執行的時候我們必須有一個安全的把屏障在這裡但是院長我還是要苦口婆心的講啦所以假設真的是修法通過啦我還是比較贊同郭部長所講的啦一盒衛料有辦法去處理啦"},{"start":691.767,"end":713.531,"text":"你還是要保證安全啊!你還是要全民要有共識啊!要不然你修法過就我們過的啦!郭民東他的基本價值,他新竹白雅就是永和啊!他跟民進黨是格格不入的餒!這就是我們的原則,沒有錯,部長幾次對外的講話就是這樣的意思跟原則。沒有錯齁,這樣我就比較安心了。想好就不要合適啦!要考慮合一合二啦!這樣比較公平啦!兩位請為院長留著,我們那個"},{"start":725.274,"end":743.682,"text":"我陪你去韓國瑜院長那裡拜訪的時候你提到打詐、釋法還有這個整個體育部的問題那我想這個整個升格的問題我都認為體育部不是只有升格的問題最主要還是改革的一個問題有時候"},{"start":751.516,"end":757.952,"text":"我都一直認為說體育部如果來升格的話因為院長剛就任我認為把他當成一件喜事"},{"start":758.871,"end":787.485,"text":"把他當成一件喜事來辦,這個在整個體育界裡面如果是一件喜事的話,大家都希望他是一件喜事,但是很怕他遭到殺伐。過去的體育署,你們人這麼多,大陣子,除了以前的體育署常常用手,你們都在乎的都只是看有沒有辦法奪牌,奪牌奪多少。可是以現狀來看,院長你幹過台北市議員,你很清楚,朱倫街,對不對?"},{"start":788.2,"end":794.981,"text":"我現在是把人民的聲音,尤其體育界的聲音,帶給院長,帶給新的團隊,給這個期待,就是說加把勁,趕快來做出一個成績。但問題是說,我要問的就是說,那個任總教他很會做的啊,這個不只牽扯到組織法的問題啊,你要給一個步,你就要消滅一個步。"},{"start":816.581,"end":817.742,"text":"我請院長簡單聲明,你的方向是什麼?"},{"start":832.476,"end":857.167,"text":"謝謝委員如果更要能夠讓未來可能的體育及運動發展部能夠成為一個更有權責的專責機構我們當然是想朝向單一的社部這樣的方向來進行所以未來中央政府機關的組織法必須經過一陣的討論我們希望能夠打破現在的這種規模能夠讓我們有餘裕的空間"},{"start":857.807,"end":879.07,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":879.17,"end":895.357,"text":"我非常關心我們的籃球。以我個人的經驗裡面,我看到啊,我以籃球為例,我們的國家選手從選手的保險、後勤的編制,到最近在炒的整個出賽費用的種種問題,凸顯我們整個機關對這個協會的管考跟輔導,我們真的沒有發揮功能。"},{"start":900.731,"end":916.517,"text":"我去看我們的賴總統去參加全中運的時候,他說希望這個體育部未來升格以後,包括把他變成體育運動產業部。所以如果可以這樣把他加起來之後,我建議你對不對?"},{"start":921.277,"end":931.548,"text":"加速去研議,趕快這樣可以誕生,符合人民的期待,動作這樣扮藝術,運動界、體育界一定會非常地贊同跟給你掌聲。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}