{"error":false,"id":["153454"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153454,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153454","日期":"2024-06-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-03T10:41:55+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-03T10:57:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707657abf3d9f037ba2b263bafebededa07eb068d4dbfff0b0cbe210e10d4f307415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"10:41:55 - 10:57:28","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（繼續詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「財政收支劃分法」3案：（繼續詢答）\n(一)\t本院委員丁學忠等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃健豪等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":516,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（10時41分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，有請莊部長、主計長。部長，你好。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：看起來對統籌分配稅款大家都很關切，不過聽起來大家覺得已經25年沒修了，的確有修改的必要性，希望部長能多加油。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的鼓勵，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：希望你也可以名垂青史，讓大家每用一分錢的時候，地方都會想到中央是在照顧地方的。請問中央跟地方的關係，你覺得是老闆、員工，還是夥伴關係，或者親密愛人的關係？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們是夥伴關係，很多都要攜手一起努力的。"],["羅委員明才：是，既然是夥伴關係，我們就要成為你好、我好、大家一起好的好夥伴。"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["羅委員明才：今天很高興有22縣市財政相關的……財政局都來了，是不是請問一下，要尊重他們的意見，如果不缺錢的，請舉手。部長，大家都缺啊！每個地方都嗷嗷待哺。所以其實也沒有講得那麼複雜，因為你如果問113個立委，有的是不分區的，有的是海外的，有的是比較專業的，他們也沒有辦法說出所以然來，但是22個講完，不就結束了嗎？要尊重他們的感受。所以第一個，當你問他們目前的財務狀況是不是缺的，他們都說是缺的。好，請問裡面覺得已經快窒息、快受不了了、最缺的，請舉手。最缺的，趕快呀！你們舉手就找部長要錢啊！好，很勇敢，那個是哪個地方？"],["陳處長國庭：金門！"],["羅委員明才：金門。所以我們可以感受到缺的是金門。那有沒有不缺的？不缺的，請舉手。好，另外剛才還有一個覺得比較缺的是哪一個地方？我們在考量的時候要給予尊重，因為是夥伴關係。部長，你要多照顧它，照顧金門。還有哪裡比較缺的，請舉手，不要客氣。所以其他的也都不缺？請問舉手的那一位是哪裡？"],["林科長靜娟：南投縣。"],["羅委員明才：南投也缺。所以我們在審查的時候就就事論事，南投缺，我們要多關心它，至少給它多一點，還有另外哪裡？"],["黃副處長淑梅：花蓮。"],["羅委員明才：所以花蓮也是缺的，這三個是缺的，剛剛還有一位。"],["黃副處長湘鈴：新竹。"],["羅委員明才：新竹也缺，OK！還有哪裡？麻煩一下，缺的請上來，報一下自己的縣市，請主席協助一下。"],["主席：各縣市有缺的，歡迎大家都上來報一下，你們既然代表各縣市來就要負責任喔！"],["羅委員明才：你就把地方的心聲藉這個機會講給中央聽，我們委員才知道到底誰有缺，先報一下你的縣市，說一下大概缺多少。"],["鍾副局長智耀：臺北市政府。"],["羅委員明才：臺北市政府缺多少？"],["鍾副局長智耀：因為現在的建設都很多，尤其包括現在的基層校舍改建……"],["羅委員明才：直接講，你希望一年可以多補助多少？"],["鍾副局長智耀：一年多少，這個金額恐怕還是要覈實……"],["羅委員明才：大概？100億、50億都隨便你講，沒關係！"],["鍾副局長智耀：因為建設的需求也是很急，如果可以的話，一年大概多200億。"],["羅委員明才：一年多200億，謝謝臺北市。下一個。"],["簡專門委員雅惠：委員好，我是桃園市政府代表，桃園是最晚升格的直轄市，因為它的統籌加一般性補助款都是六都最低的，一般性補助款的排名甚至排名到第17名、第18名。"],["羅委員明才：所以統籌的部分，你希望一年可以增加多少？"],["簡專門委員雅惠：統籌的部分，因為我們相較臺北市的部分……"],["羅委員明才：大概？"],["簡專門委員雅惠：相較剛剛臺北市代表的發言，其實我們升格以後，這幾年的統籌部分大概少了上千億，其實我們沒有要要求那麼多，希望至少達成跟六都的平均數一樣就好。"],["羅委員明才：平均數大概多少？直接講沒關係！"],["簡專門委員雅惠：平均數大概差了五百多億。"],["羅委員明才：桃園五百多億，謝謝。幫我記一下，反正你們都講，缺多少我們來想辦法，是1,000億、2,000億，這樣才有辦法進行，不然每次大家都天馬行空，講不完的。那麼沒有上來的，謝謝！你們就不要。下一個。"],["蔡科長仕晃：委員好，我是代表新竹縣。"],["羅委員明才：新竹縣差多少？"],["蔡科長仕晃：目前我們的各項建設需求至少都還有缺口大概上百億，所以至少希望有100億以上。"],["羅委員明才：100億，謝謝。下一位。"],["林科長靜娟：委員好，我是南投縣政府代表。因為這幾年南投縣的各項建設也是很多。"],["羅委員明才：沒關係！你們很辛苦，因為觀光都不好，陸客沒來。"],["林科長靜娟：對，沒錯，所以對我們的各項收入其實都影響很大。"],["羅委員明才：你希望增加多少？"],["林科長靜娟：至少要有50億以上。"],["羅委員明才：幾億？"],["林科長靜娟：50億。"],["羅委員明才：好，南投50億，謝謝。下一個。"],["蔣專門委員喬玫：委員好，我是新北市政府代表，新北市真的是人口最多。"],["羅委員明才：沒錯！"],["蔣專門委員喬玫：因為很多各項建設都要支出，所以我們的缺口真的缺很多錢，每年的預算差短也都是差了一百多億，我們的缺口少了五、六百億。"],["羅委員明才：五、六百億，那就600億好了，好不好？部長，請你聽一聽他們的心聲。"],["莊部長翠雲：我在記。"],["羅委員明才：新北是差最多的，以前還是縣的時候覺得縣慘兮兮、嗷嗷待哺，升格成為直轄市以後，比起來真的差太多了，我們沒有接上升格的期待，拜託！請部長在斟酌的時候，新北市的人口又多，每次分配的平均人均都是最低的，以前都是虧待新北很多，這次記得要補回來，拜託！下一位。"],["蔡副局長玉娩：委員好，我是宜蘭縣政府的代表。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝，你差多少？"],["蔡副局長玉娩：宜蘭縣的部分每年的差短大概是七、八十億，最近因為有各項經濟、交通建設……"],["羅委員明才：沒關係，因為人很多，所以你就講數字。"],["蔡副局長玉娩：我們希望可以多多益善，至少140億。"],["羅委員明才：宜蘭140億，謝謝。下一個。"],["黃副處長淑梅：委員好。我是花蓮縣政府的代表。"],["羅委員明才：花蓮是災區。"],["黃副處長淑梅：對，災區，然後也是全國面積最大的，所以我們的基礎工程、道路橋梁還有排水工程是非常複雜。"],["羅委員明才：沒關係，缺多少？"],["黃副處長淑梅：至少100億。"],["羅委員明才：花蓮100億，謝謝。下一位。"],["陳處長國庭：委員好，我是金門縣的代表。"],["羅委員明才：金門缺多少？"],["陳處長國庭：因為金門縣現在連金門大橋還有自來水，像這些在臺灣縣市都是屬於中央負擔的，可是在金門都要由金門負擔，我們希望每年可以增加20億。"],["羅委員明才：20億而已，小事情！我們也聽進去了。下一個。"],["李主任秘書芷玲：委員好，我是臺中市代表，目前來講，臺中市是重大工程齊聚，在最近幾年會有一個大幅度的需求，所以臺中市收支差短的部分大概有300億。"],["羅委員明才：幾億？"],["李主任秘書芷玲：300億。"],["羅委員明才：300億，謝謝，也不多啦！因為我們前幾年的稅收超徵4,500億，我是要幫各地方找錢，再沒有錢再來找我，我還有很多地方可以幫部長找錢的。下一個。"],["張副處長志盟：委員好，我是雲林縣代表，雲林縣每年在雲林縣內爭取的稅收有七百多億，可是雲林縣再加上中央給我們的一般性補助款、特別補助款、統籌分配稅款，統統加進來以後預算只能到400億而已。"],["羅委員明才：所以差多少？"],["張副處長志盟：這個收支的落差我們多貢獻了三百多億，可是雲林縣有一些特別的犧牲，比如六輕重大工業污染的承受……"],["羅委員明才：均衡一下，你覺得你們一年差多少？"],["張副處長志盟：最少100億。"],["羅委員明才：雲林100億，謝謝。下一位。"],["黃副處長湘鈴：委員好，我是新竹市政府的代表，新竹市因為是科學園區的所在地，我們創造了高額的稅收，但是營利事業所得稅和綜合所得稅都是國稅，我們都上繳中央了。"],["羅委員明才：沒錯！"],["黃副處長湘鈴：但是我們新竹市配回的統籌分配稅和一般性補助款的配回率是全國最低的。"],["羅委員明才：好，所以你希望再增加多少統籌稅款？"],["黃副處長湘鈴：因為園區造成的外溢成本，像交通、教育都是我們新竹市負擔，所以希望至少可以增加百億以上，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：100億，謝謝。請登記一下，下一位。"],["李專員惠琴：委員好，我是苗栗縣代表，苗栗縣在菸酒稅這一塊上繳的稅收是比較多的，但是回饋給我們苗栗的相對於其他縣市比起來差異非常大，我們也希望在這個部分可以再多增加給我們差不多100億。"],["羅委員明才：苗栗100億，謝謝。下一個。"],["李科員佳芳：委員好，我是嘉義市的代表，因為嘉義市正在做鐵路高架化，目前因為工程款也是大額增加，自籌需要增加很多，我們正在蓋一個永續綠能循環中心，再加上基本建設等需要，所以缺口大概是100億左右。"],["羅委員明才：100億，好，我會努力，因為黃市長特別關心，這個都不分藍綠，地方就是民眾需要做的，中央就大力支持，所以你們這個部分我也會大力請委員大家支持，謝謝。"],["李科員佳芳：感謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：下一位。"],["廖科員于萱：委員好，我是基隆市代表。現在我們的捷運也還正在蓋，需要大筆的經費，所以我們希望大概90到100億。"],["羅委員明才：90到100億，好，我們也大力支持，因為北北基桃都是共同生活圈，而且市長很認真在做，我們會大力支持，謝謝。"],["許科員明賢：委員好，我是澎湖縣政府代表，我們希望可以增加25億左右。"],["羅委員明才：澎湖25億，謝謝。下一個。"],["陳專門委員家慶：委員好，臺南市政府代表，臺南市政府每年的預算差短大概是五、六十億，以上，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：五、六十億，請問是哪裡？"],["陳專門委員家慶：臺南市政府。"],["羅委員明才：臺南市五、六十億，我們召委也是臺南的，所以我們會請郭國文召委一起為臺南市加油，不分你我。下一個。"],["張科長壽明：委員好，我是連江縣政府代表，我們大概是全國自籌款比例最低的縣市政府，主要差短是配合款和歲入歲出的短絀，大概5億左右。"],["羅委員明才：幾億？"],["張科長壽明：5億。"],["羅委員明才：部長，馬上給它了啦！5億，每次都說溝通有困難，你是哪一個地方？"],["張科長壽明：連江馬祖。"],["羅委員明才：連江馬祖5億，好啦！馬上給啦！謝謝，請回。算一下總共加起來多少。","所以部長我要告訴你，我們每天講天說地，加一加大概沒有超過2,000億，然後一副苦哈哈，講東講西。各位敬愛的全國民眾，前瞻少花一點就有錢了！各位民眾大家想想看，不過就一、兩千億，事情就解決了，為什麼不做？拖了二十五年！這不是本席說要做不做，是小英總統說要做，蘇貞昌老縣長說要做，賴清德總統以前說過通通要做，我們為什麼不放下政黨之見，站在民眾思考的立場，就幫他們一下吧？前瞻8,800億在這邊沒花幾分鐘就通過了，現在加起來多少？就當2,600億吧！打個八折好了，用2,000億來算，不是皆大歡喜了嗎？所以部長，本席在這裡要求你，禮拜三你把需要經費的縣市長都一次請過來，請他們在所有立委面前看到底缺什麼？缺多少金額？我們一起來幫他們！如同你剛剛講的，中央跟地方是什麼關係？是夥伴關係嘛，有什麼不能講、什麼不能說的？拜託部長，要面對這個問題了！","最後，主計長，去年稅收又超徵3,000億左右，拜託！苦民所苦！現在經濟、通膨、物價飆漲得很厲害，拜託今年每個人普發現金一萬塊，好不好？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，它整個結餘是……"],["羅委員明才：一萬塊啦！"],["陳主計長淑姿：2,790億，還債之後剩下1,530億，然後我們挹注台電1,000億的追加預算……"],["羅委員明才：不要給台電，今年你給台電，明年還要給，後年還要給……"],["陳主計長淑姿：可是問題是它……"],["羅委員明才：這是政策錯誤吧！"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為材料上漲，所以它也支持不下去。"],["羅委員明才：材料漲，電價也漲了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前電價漲了還是不夠，所以我們還是要補1,000億。追加1,000億後就讓我們整個累計剩餘才剩下六百多億，謝謝，以上。"],["羅委員明才：一個人普發現金一萬塊，缺的錢我來告訴部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝召委羅明才委員的質詢。剛才總共有十七個縣市，總共缺口是2,575億，這可以讓我們好好思考地方缺口的狀況，謝謝。","我們接下來請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":228,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-16","speakers":["羅明才","黃珊珊","黃國昌","李彥秀","李坤城","郭國文","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張智倫","鄭正鈐","牛煦庭","萬美玲","邱鎮軍","羅廷瑋","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","邱若華"],"page_start":47,"meetingDate":["2024-06-03"],"gazette_id":"1135801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（繼續詢答）(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支\n劃分法修正草案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇\n甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 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經費。所以我們希望大概有90到100。"},{"start":690.404,"end":701.671,"text":"收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法：一、"},{"start":721.789,"end":728.19,"text":"收支劃分法：一、繼續審查:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政收支劃分法．一、繼續擬具:「財政"},{"start":750.049,"end":768.917,"text":"大概5億左右幾億部長馬上給他了啦5億然後一直每次都說溝通有困難你說你是哪一個地方連江馬祖連江馬祖5億好啦馬上給啦好謝謝請回那那個秘書長總共接下來多少你算一下所以部長我要告訴你的"},{"start":780.455,"end":806.555,"text":"我們每天講天說地加一加大概沒有超過兩千億啦然後一副苦哈哈講東講西各位敬愛的全國民眾錢真少花一點就有錢了各位民眾大家想想看這不過一兩千億的事情就解決了為什麼做脫了25年"},{"start":808.82,"end":835.921,"text":"不是本席說要做不做是小英總統說要做蘇貞昌老縣長說要做賴清德總統以前說過通通要做我們為什麼不放下政黨之見站在民眾思考的立場就幫他們一下吧前瞻8800億在這邊沒有幾分就通過了加起來多少2600億吧"},{"start":839.401,"end":846.712,"text":"收支劃分法．立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法、委員羅明才等23人、委員許宇甄等22人、委員許宇甄等22人分別擬具"},{"start":855.409,"end":874.082,"text":"請他們在所有立委面前看到底缺什麼缺多少金額我們一起來幫他嘛就如同你剛剛講的中央地方什麼關係是夥伴關係嘛有什麼不能講有什麼不能說的拜託部長要面對這個問題了最後主計長去年的稅收啊又超徵3000億左右拜託啊苦民所苦啊"},{"start":881.534,"end":889.268,"text":"現在經濟通膨物價飆漲得很厲害拜託今年每個人普發現金一萬塊好不好"},{"start":891.889,"end":893.81,"text":"收支劃分法修正草案．一、繼續審查"},{"start":914.125,"end":918.069,"text":"收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法、委員羅明才等23人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}