{"error":false,"id":["153535"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153535,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153535","日期":"2024-06-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-04T15:28:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-04T15:32:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:03:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f4eef9f9bd62cc078323cc009650760db566fe1f8cd5cc063e6631001572784cb70c920121590e455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"15:28:48 - 15:32:32","會議時間":"2024-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議（事由：一、行政院院長報告施政方針並備質詢(5月31日)。\n二、討論事項：本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」、委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生醫療發展法草案」、委員羅廷瑋等21人、委員黃秀芳等18人、委員王正旭等20人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳菁徽等19人及委員楊瓊瓔等25人分別擬具「再生醫療法草案」等5案(6月4日)。\n三、5月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n四、本次會議不處理臨時提案。）","gazette":{"lineno":48,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（15時29分）主席、各位在場的媒體朋友，各位我們立法院的同仁。剛剛我看國民黨的朋友一直主張這個叫土地正義，他說這是一個公平的原則，我來跟大家報告，如果你跟我說2015年通過的是一個公平正義，是一個土地的正義，這個可以接受。然後2016年民主進步黨執政以後，我們也編列預算，對於整個原住民朋友過去的禁伐補償的部分，我們來做事後的補償。但是，我們今天通過的每公頃提高變成6萬塊的這樣一個禁伐補償，大家都很清楚，這個已經不叫做公平正義了，這個是大家在立法院裡面亂喊價，如果在8年前大家通過的3萬塊是公平正義，那怎麼8年後公平正義又不見了？如果明年變成10萬，後年變成20萬，這個不通嘛！立法院通過任何一個條例，立法委員提的版本在三讀通過了以後，行政部門事後如果提出預算，這個叫做事後的追認，當然沒有侵害到行政權的問題啊！憲法第七十條規定得很清楚，我們連對於行政院所提的預算去做增加的提議都是違憲，大法官釋字第391號其實講得非常清楚，如果說不是行政部門的施政計畫，由立法院單獨通過了以後，到最後這整個責任政治就難以釐清了。我認同剛剛黃國昌委員講的，這是一個特別犧牲，但是問題是大家要去思考所謂的特別犧牲要調幾次才會變成不是特別犧牲。","我的感觸非常深刻，我們屏東那個地方有國家公園，國家公園裡面就是一個限建區，容積跟建蔽全部都減少了，哪來的土地正義？我們的水源保護區為什麼就變成1公頃是2萬到4萬？為什麼不比照由大家一起來討論，全部都把它提高到6萬？所以什麼叫做公平對待，大家不用互相騙啦！要討好自己的選民，我可以接受，我也可以理解，但是我們今天談的是這一部法令，我們在2019年所通過的財政紀律法裡面，我們去擅自做這樣的提案，這個法律把員額、數字都規定下去了，那立法委員過幾天或在明年、2年後，我們再去把它調高的時候，那天下大亂了！我們立法院到最後會變成一隻怪獸，如果不接受憲法跟大法官解釋的節制，就會沒完沒了啦！所以請大家再思考一下。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","報告院會，現在我們進行逐條討論。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":13,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-16","speakers":["韓國瑜","柯建銘","高金素梅","黃國昌","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","莊瑞雄","盧縣一","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","黃仁","蘇清泉","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林倩綺","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1135102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n原住民保留地禁伐補償條例修正第六條條文─ 完成三讀─","agenda_id":"1135102_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9422187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.36596875,"end":21.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.816593750000003,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.832843750000002,"end":26.997218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.840968750000002,"end":29.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.625343750000003,"end":31.637843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.46471875,"end":34.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.36721875,"end":36.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.25721875,"end":38.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.94471875,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.767218750000005,"end":41.509718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.76284375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.71596875,"end":45.289718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.09971875,"end":46.791593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.31034375,"end":50.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.07784375,"end":52.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.59221875,"end":55.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.80284375,"end":61.844093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.485343750000006,"end":63.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.13909375,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.50596875000001,"end":65.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.55659375,"end":66.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.94034375000001,"end":70.36596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.49659375,"end":72.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.47096875,"end":74.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.00659375000001,"end":75.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.38596875,"end":79.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.71471875,"end":80.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.16596875,"end":82.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.47784375,"end":85.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.67159375,"end":86.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.48971875000001,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.37971875000001,"end":101.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.04034375,"end":104.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.33096875000001,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.99284375,"end":113.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.57846875000001,"end":115.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.19846875,"end":117.32909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.58221875000001,"end":118.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.05034375000001,"end":120.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.78409375000001,"end":129.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.10346875000002,"end":131.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.40284375000002,"end":133.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.87909375,"end":137.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.57471875000002,"end":146.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.06284375,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.54346875000002,"end":151.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.95659375,"end":154.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.43284375000002,"end":156.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.32721875000001,"end":157.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.01471875000001,"end":158.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.68534375000002,"end":161.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.06471875,"end":163.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.41034375,"end":167.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.84846875000002,"end":173.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.94471875000002,"end":176.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.16784375,"end":178.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.72034375,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.85096875000002,"end":181.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.89284375000003,"end":184.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.69409375,"end":199.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.30346875,"end":200.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.97784375,"end":205.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.31534375,"end":210.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.96846875,"end":215.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.78659375,"end":214.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.06471875000003,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.53284375,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.90346875,"end":224.14784375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.209,"end":0.309,"text":"總委員發言"},{"start":16.414,"end":45.13,"text":"主席、各位這場媒體朋友各位我們立法院的同仁剛剛我看國民黨的朋友一直主張這個叫土地正義他說這個是一個公平的一個原則我來跟大家報告如果你跟我說2015年通過的是一個公平正義是一個土地的一個正義這個可以接受然後2016年民主進步黨執政以後我們也"},{"start":46.141,"end":71.88,"text":"併列預算對於我們整個原住民朋友過去的進法補償的部分我們來做一個事後的一個補償但是呢我們今天啊通過了美工警提高變成6萬塊的這樣的一個進法補償大家都很清楚啊這個已經不叫做公平正義了這個是大家在立法院裡面亂喊價那如果"},{"start":73.71,"end":84.937,"text":"這個在8年前大家通過的3萬塊的是公平正義那怎麼8年後公平正義又不見了那如果明年變成10萬後年變成20萬這個不同嘛"},{"start":90.49,"end":113.772,"text":"立法院通過任何的一個條例立法委員提的版本三讀通過了以後行政部門事後如果提出預算這個叫做事後的一個追認當然沒有侵害到行政權的一個問題啊憲法第57、第70條講得很清楚啊我們連對於行政院所提的預算啊去做增加的一個提議啊這個都違憲了"},{"start":117.752,"end":133.678,"text":"三百九十一號其實他講得非常清楚你如果說這個不是行政部門的施政計畫由立法院單獨通過了以後那到最後這個整個責任政治你就懶於釐清了"},{"start":134.932,"end":160.868,"text":"我認同剛剛黃國昌委員講的這是一個特別犧牲但是問題是特別犧牲大家要去思考所謂的特別犧牲要調幾次才會變成不是特別犧牲我感觸非常深刻我屏東那個地方有國家公園國家公園裡面就是一個縣建區農機跟建壁全部都減少了那哪來的土地正義"},{"start":162.133,"end":184.05,"text":"我們的水源保護區那為什麼就變成一公頃是兩萬到四萬那為什麼比照大家一起來討論全部都把它提高到六萬所以什麼叫做公平對待大家不用受騙啦這個叫做一個討好自己的自己的顯明我可以接受"},{"start":184.83,"end":186.471,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會報告"},{"start":204.191,"end":223.296,"text":"兩年後我們再去把它做調高的時候那天下大亂了我們立法院到最後變成一隻怪獸這個如果不接受憲法跟大法官的一個解釋的一個節制的話沒完沒了啊請大家再思考一下謝謝專業學務委員的發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}