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遷因應的做法跟全世界來分享"},{"start":2452.714,"end":2469.999,"text":"那剛剛有提到這一次COP28在阿拉伯聯合大公國杜拜來舉行那除了COP28之外事實上還有京都協定書第18次的第8方的大會"},{"start":2470.899,"end":2496.908,"text":"也就是所謂的CMP18以及巴黎協定第五次第二方大會也就是CMA5以及第59次附屬機構的會議SB59而同步進行有將近超過9萬人出席這次的會議可以說是COP舉辦到目前為止規模最大的一次"},{"start":2500.353,"end":2521.763,"text":"阿拉伯聯合大公國提出的四大行動主軸包括能源轉型與鈦除化石燃料解決氣候融資問題加速糧食系統轉型以及提升包容性的氣候行動"},{"start":2523.184,"end":2539.251,"text":"事實上我們在事先也對媒體記者來表達既然四大主題當中有特別強調提升包容性把台灣排除在DA方實在是非常諷刺的一個做法"},{"start":2540.373,"end":2568.023,"text":"那這個會議本來是要在12月12號就結束但是大家對化石燃料的減少跟剔除事實上有很大的疑議那最後妥協的結果是用一個中性的字眼就是轉型脫離化石燃料也就是英文變成Transition away from fossil fuel"},{"start":2569.383,"end":2595.976,"text":"那我想這個是大家後來非常期待的一個結果那我接下來把這一次的會議重點如列成三個大項來這邊報告那第一個就是在會議的第一天就獲得議會參與者大家的共識成立了損失與損害的基金也就是Loss and Damage Fund"},{"start":2598.033,"end":2602.764,"text":"到目前為止已經獲得多國承諾資助達到7.26億美元"},{"start":2608.257,"end":2629.648,"text":"那這基金現在是暫時由世界銀行來代為執行那部分的國家提議是應該是成立要新的組織來處理這些基金未來的一個使用跟申請的這個程序那目前在這一方面還在進行當中"},{"start":2631.969,"end":2648.204,"text":"那第二個重點是剛剛提到有關如何做能源的一個轉型那這裡面很清楚的第一國多數也都同意要在2030年"},{"start":2649.986,"end":2666.896,"text":"要把再生能源跟現在來比要達到三倍也就是說未來剩下的七年當中要增加兩倍的再生能源那同時要提升能源效率一倍"},{"start":2668.116,"end":2689.543,"text":"我想這兩點跟我們在去年國發會所發布的2050淨零排放路線圖事實上是不某而合這個是很令人欣慰我們可以說是超前部署另外在減碳科技來持續擴增發展"},{"start":2691.482,"end":2713.58,"text":"那剛剛也提到的化石燃料原本是從face down跟face out變成transition away from fossil fuel所以事實上是有比較中性的字眼但是在其層方面並沒有很明確的來說明到底要怎麼去transition away from fossil fuel"},{"start":2714.541,"end":2743.881,"text":"另外對於CCES的燃煤電廠應該要排除換句話說未來再探捕捉封存跟利用要來持續的強化也呼籲各國要取消對於低效化石燃料的補助同時強化零排放硬具的加強部署"},{"start":2745.081,"end":2760.586,"text":"第三個談到的是有關很多國家在會議當中也提出了一些倡議這些倡議涵蓋的面向也非常的多但是並沒有獲得多數國的一個認同"},{"start":2762.926,"end":2784.796,"text":"這裏面當然也包括氣候跟健康的宣言以及再生低碳氫能以及其衍生物的宣言以及全球冷卻行動的承諾這塊事實上也在我們2050的近年排放路徑圖裏面我們要持續來強化我們對於冷媒的使用等等"},{"start":2791.755,"end":2809.043,"text":"那接下來我針對我們這一次參議的一個情況在這邊跟各位委員報告那這一次的參議的部會剛剛事實上在主席裡面有提到"},{"start":2809.883,"end":2825.095,"text":"在座各個部會事實上都積極的參與除了各部會之外事實上我們的NGO以及我們的產業界、學術界跟研究單位也都積極的參與規模應該也是國內歷年來參加COP會議裡面最多的一次"},{"start":2832.08,"end":2842.349,"text":"在這邊也特別感謝我們大院四個黨團也分別有代表包括在座的洪森和瑞妍也蒞臨我們的會場來視導提供很多"},{"start":2847.754,"end":2849.314,"text":"提供我們很多的幫忙,在這邊也特別謝謝趙偉抵達會場。"},{"start":2869.71,"end":2884.757,"text":"那另外就是有關友邦的職員跟雙邊的會談方面今年除了友邦力挺我們之外很多沒有邦交國的這些代表跟國會議員也分別以書面"},{"start":2888.519,"end":2916.676,"text":"以及跟我們進行雙邊的一個會談來交換對於淨零轉型的一些心得總計今年我們進行的雙邊會談達到46場所以是相當相當的具有收穫那這邊也特別感謝行政院花園人還有我們外交部的長官"},{"start":2917.576,"end":2945.948,"text":"我就不把名字講出來事實上我們這一次也可以說是部會首長參與的層級人數最多人員也最多的一次那另外我在這邊也特別針對這一次為了COP28我們也在當地有做了包括宣傳車以及看板的一個廣告在捷運站等等"},{"start":2946.789,"end":2962.07,"text":"獲得相當正面的一個回應也特別感謝外交部在事先在各大媒體來進行投書包括環境部的投書等等後續來講我想這一次COP的"},{"start":2963.772,"end":2975.044,"text":"結論很清楚我們感到很欣慰的就是臺灣雖然不是第一方的一份子可是我們推動2050的淨零排放我們氣候變遷因應法的立法"},{"start":2981.27,"end":2997.535,"text":"等等的措施都讓第一方以及參與者對台灣推動淨零的決心感到非常的佩服那我在這邊也再一次呼籲我們在淨零排放的這個路徑上"},{"start":2998.355,"end":3017.593,"text":"我們持續地往前我相信世界都看到臺灣我們也會盡全力來推動我們的淨零排放路徑圖以上報告恭請執政也敬祝主席以及各位委員身體健康萬事如意謝謝各位 謝謝謝謝 謝謝薛部長"},{"start":3025.359,"end":3052.915,"text":"有關本次會議各項書面資料列入紀錄刊登公報不好意思 部長剛剛那個隔壁間要在審預算可能10點的時候 他們說10點左右會請您過去所以就要請您的請次長代理就這樣子 好 謝謝"},{"start":3055.652,"end":3081.256,"text":"現在開始詢答做以下宣告本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出與其不受理今天沒有休息時間原則上11點半處理臨時提案10點半截止收案"},{"start":3082.973,"end":3086.335,"text":"現在請登記的第一位委員 洪聖翰 洪委員發言呃 請薛部長 然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們 謝謝"},{"start":3116.743,"end":3129.62,"text":"部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是這個國際上面秋變遷討論最重要的盛事之一齁"},{"start":3130.629,"end":3148.144,"text":"那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻"},{"start":3149.065,"end":3167.429,"text":"那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍"},{"start":3170.951,"end":3177.236,"text":"合能的這個倡議就部長就你了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎"},{"start":3179.929,"end":3202.512,"text":"沒有,事實上沒有得到共識,因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家,那剛剛宏偉提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面事實上也算相當成熟的,他們使用核能力也很高"},{"start":3203.252,"end":3231.424,"text":"對 所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選哇 這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實好 那下面我想這個下一張那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個"},{"start":3232.844,"end":3254.749,"text":"一個條文其實就是在於我這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論"},{"start":3256.257,"end":3277.579,"text":"好那個謝謝委員就是說其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關的這大概這兩點是最重要的結論那除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供要讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來"},{"start":3278.32,"end":3297.117,"text":"我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作"},{"start":3297.797,"end":3313.482,"text":"我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%"},{"start":3315.143,"end":3344.359,"text":"提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給去出GDP因為時間有限好那我簡單講委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點"},{"start":3344.619,"end":3372.454,"text":"好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾"},{"start":3373.574,"end":3394.506,"text":"跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上"},{"start":3395.206,"end":3415.121,"text":"是可以達成目標的所以再生能源三倍是可以承諾的是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%"},{"start":3417.723,"end":3443.879,"text":"就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你們說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對"},{"start":3445.24,"end":3463.571,"text":"對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做你說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好"},{"start":3464.298,"end":3491.537,"text":"那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題"},{"start":3493.482,"end":3503.209,"text":"我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握"},{"start":3504.825,"end":3530.767,"text":"這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下來下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎"},{"start":3532.813,"end":3542.563,"text":"你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎"},{"start":3544.116,"end":3569.272,"text":"應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎"},{"start":3570.356,"end":3579.665,"text":"我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嗎?部長說了,再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張"},{"start":3581.504,"end":3604.198,"text":"前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是淨零來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟"},{"start":3604.918,"end":3628.88,"text":"可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高"},{"start":3629.821,"end":3637.64,"text":"所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題"},{"start":3639.264,"end":3664.605,"text":"我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色"},{"start":3665.185,"end":3685.819,"text":"可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊境調整"},{"start":3689.361,"end":3701.372,"text":"可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度"},{"start":3702.536,"end":3725.869,"text":"事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個"},{"start":3730.852,"end":3744.003,"text":"國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於"},{"start":3746.025,"end":3760.75,"text":"台灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的"},{"start":3761.41,"end":3787.605,"text":"國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是議員的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟"},{"start":3789.566,"end":3815.362,"text":"跟這個公主委跟陳院長來討論這事情是我們應該做的事情部長可以嗎可以 給洪文報告昨天下午就已經跟陳院長報告過了事實上剛剛洪文講的這個部分都有cover在那裡部長我們希望你們討論有一個好的結果那看可不可以在一個月後給我們相關的這個相關的規劃的訊息可以嗎一個月後可以好 謝謝謝謝洪文"},{"start":3818.455,"end":3839.726,"text":"謝鴻文 下一位請蘇喬惠蘇委員好 謝謝主席 我們請薛部長有請部長"},{"start":3847.329,"end":3861.084,"text":"蘇委員好部長好部長跟幾位委員有實地到COP28的現場去看過確實帶回了很多第一手的資料所以剛剛洪委員講的我其實很想說洪委員講的我們都贊成我們直接簽聯署請部長直接照做"},{"start":3864.207,"end":3889.601,"text":"不過這個有一些細節的部分確實部長還可以請你再多做說明一點比如說剛剛說這個決議的部分洪委員剛剛提到了因為同樣的這樣的一個會議開下來在時間的不同當中也有各種不同的團體不同的國家集結成不同意見的發送但我們必須說COP28的結論應該只有一個吧"},{"start":3892.462,"end":3903.859,"text":"應該只有一個這樣問好了來部長這次的會議到底有沒有結論有沒有有事實上他們有有結論嘛這個結論在什麼時候發出昨天下午昨天嘛昨天下午最後一個"},{"start":3905.046,"end":3929.491,"text":"不用啦 部長 這個問題很簡單啦有沒有結論嘛 有嘛 有什麼時候發出的 這個結論昨天下午啊 昨天嘛所以昨天以前的都不叫大會結論 對吧不是 那個都是倡議而已都是倡議而已嘛所以大會結論是在昨天才發出的嘛而且就是我們現在列出來這個也是你剛剛報告的現在我的投影片這個這個才是昨天這一次本屆今年COP28的結論可以這樣說嘛好 那部長"},{"start":3932.912,"end":3957.267,"text":"部長我想請問一下請你用一點簡短的回答你剛剛在回答洪委員的時候我們有提到的是國內有人據說他直接在12月5號的時候就已經把這個某一次的倡議變成了28會議的結論然後大肆宣揚這中間其實在講的就是對核能的態度所以我們回到前夜好不好回到前夜"},{"start":3958.898,"end":3978.795,"text":"我想請你在這個備詢台上你再次的說明在COP28裡面對於核能的態度到底是什麼他的比重談論到的狀況是如何請你簡單說明一下是的我在事實上在看到國內這個報導之後我馬上接受媒體的聯訪"},{"start":3980.797,"end":4001.597,"text":"我表達得非常清楚現階段核能對台灣而言是假議題部長我想先請問你的是COP28它的結論當中提到核能有多少那並且它把核能列為一個什麼樣的狀況它是倡議裡面是希望2050年那是倡議我現在問的是結論啊結論沒有啊"},{"start":4005.801,"end":4022.542,"text":"結論有啦結論還是有啦在結論當中他是在加快零排放和低排放技術發展的這一項當中在這一項當中把核能確實有放進去我們就事論事嘛他把核能有放進去在這個"},{"start":4024.063,"end":4043.456,"text":"加快零排放及低排放技術的發展當中有列進去但這表示他就是把核能列為綠電嗎其實也不盡然嘛也不盡然但他確實表示這是一個可能降低碳排的技術之一對不對所以我們必須說其實在整個COP28的這個結論當中大會結論當中有提到核能沒有錯但"},{"start":4047.939,"end":4065.171,"text":"它是把它列為應該要繼續發展的新技術之一但不是前面所說的在22個國家裡面提出的倡議當中說哎呀我們全世界就是應該要用三倍數的方向來發展核能完全沒有這件事情嘛對不對"},{"start":4065.871,"end":4080.966,"text":"完全沒有這件事情嘛結論跟倡議是不一樣的狀況之下在結論我們甚至是也沒有倡議的這樣的內容這個應該是可以部長在這裡以一個參與過的以一個部長的身份在這裡向全國公開再次聲明吧"},{"start":4081.667,"end":4097.265,"text":"是沒有所謂在2050年要把核能三倍的這個結論完全沒有但是核能對某些國家它可以變成再生能源甚至它"},{"start":4098.005,"end":4100.107,"text":"對台灣來講核能的發展是一個假議題你可不可以在這裡再一次表示核能的發展是假議題這句話是什麼意思"},{"start":4124.605,"end":4152.406,"text":"其實你也有前提啊是你也有前提啊你的報紙我都還幫你選必須在三個前提之下獲得確保之後台灣去發展核電我相信那時候大家是可以接受的那我們並不是說沒有把它列入我們的未來發展方向就不會去就忽略掉核能事實上我們很多協助研究單位持續針對核能的研發所以是哪三個條件"},{"start":4153.046,"end":4169.275,"text":"所以是哪三個條件部長第一個確保核能的安全第二個核廢料獲得妥善的處理第三個有全民共識我想這三個應該那在這三個當中其實最難的其實就是你這次說的嘛就核廢未解決所以談核電是假議題嘛"},{"start":4169.935,"end":4176.121,"text":"為什麼會這樣講的原因是因為現在在發展核電的國家當中我們必須說其實他們都是屬於有能力或者有現況可以處理核廢料的部分的國家嘛那在這些國家當中其實很大一個條件大部分的就是地廣人稀他有一個空間可以去處理核廢那偏偏台灣的狀況就是地狹人稠恰恰相反"},{"start":4194.958,"end":4215.665,"text":"所以以從過去到現在來講甚至不管是哪一個政黨執政沒有一個中央政府現在還沒有辦法處理最終處置場的問題啊所以在沒有辦法處理核廢之前其實你核電技術再怎麼發展除非你有辦法發展到我們做核電都完全沒有核廢料"},{"start":4216.385,"end":4237.708,"text":"或讓這個核廢料是所有人都認為它是安全的科學檢測它也是安全的我現在說的是核廢料還不是核能發電而已喔在這樣的狀況下才有空間台灣才有可能進行到共識的這個部分嘛 對不對所以部長我們今天在這裡要把幾個層次分清楚一個是世界對於核電的態度是什麼"},{"start":4238.228,"end":4259.625,"text":"另外一個是臺灣到底有沒有條件來使用核電而臺灣使用核電的前提是我們到底有沒有辦法處理核廢料所以這幾個層次其實部長你應該像念經一樣不停的不停的對全國來做一個宣達也就是全國人民要認知到的是我們在討論使用核電之前的前提是到底我們臺灣有沒有能耐"},{"start":4261.827,"end":4273.752,"text":"有沒有縣市願意接受處理核廢料成為在你身邊的最終處置場就是這樣子而已其他的技術都是另外的問題所以在這樣的狀況下部長我再次的說其實資訊的傳達真的是非常重要所以"},{"start":4280.154,"end":4296.219,"text":"這題如此那另外一個題目我覺得可能會變成新的狀況是你剛剛在在的說氣候損失與損害基金是這一次COP28的結論重要結論之一那臺灣也表示我們願意參與甚至是先行參與這個基金的這個建制"},{"start":4297.259,"end":4321.56,"text":"以致於我們未來可以參與更多的組織面向那我想請你簡短的回答請問我們是要用什麼樣的名義捐助捐助多少何時捐預算來源想要達到什麼樣的效果這個部分你始終還沒有做過解釋請你現在解釋我先講一個案例就是剛剛我跟洪委員有提到我們今年7月份外交部吳部長跟我們太平洋"},{"start":4322.28,"end":4330.467,"text":"四個友邦國家包括帛琉、諾魯還有馬薩爾以及另外一個國家"},{"start":4331.058,"end":4357.882,"text":"成立一個Just Transition Fund那我們台灣已經提供10 million就是一千萬美元去做那個基金所以同樣我對媒體也講過假如我們能夠實際參與COP的第一國的大會那台灣願意履行會員的一個責任我們來捐那當然這個經費要捐多少就必須要我們"},{"start":4358.942,"end":4382.696,"text":"行政院或者甚至是更高的成績因為我想大家都會更想要知道說我們這個的預算是從哪一個部門哪一個項目來出來那另外這個預算能夠達到的效果是什麼比如說你剛剛說我們已經跟這四個國家有過這樣子的一個基金變成一個團體那麼請問一下這一次在大會當中他們對我們的態度如何"},{"start":4382.836,"end":4410.162,"text":"非常正面他們在聯合國大會氣候大會裡面事實上為我們發聲覺得不應該遺漏任何一個國家或地區那我們為什麼當時選擇這四個國家因為太平洋島國這個事實上是比較嚴重我這一次跟很多包括加勒比海我們的友邦他們都紛紛跟我表達說希望他們能夠加入這個基金所以事實上反應很正面我昨天跟院長跟是嗎"},{"start":4410.982,"end":4431.238,"text":"所以這是一個正向的發展因為我們選擇這幾個國家是他們跟我們一樣都屬於海島型國家大家都是會面對氣候變遷首當其衝的國家而在這一些條件的國家當中台灣是屬於比較有能力的國家所以我們率先出來這等於是台灣can help的再一次的證明嘛"},{"start":4431.678,"end":4437.54,"text":"那在這樣的狀況之下我們果然因此收獲了善意的循環所以他們願意幫我們在大會發聲那我們當然期待這個可以繼續下去我想部長因為他確實是動用了國家的預算所以其他的委員一定會繼續的追問你成效如何我期待的是你能夠像剛剛使用何能的這一題你念經也好啦你就是一樣的東西一直講一定要說到大家都能夠懂"},{"start":4460.527,"end":4473.462,"text":"大家都能夠耳熟能詳大家就知道國家政策的方向是如此這般那你才有可能得到追隨者嘛所以在這裡的話我是希望部長能夠把這個部分再講更清楚一點好繼續傳達謝謝部長好謝謝蘇委員好謝謝謝謝蘇委員有請吳益勤委員"},{"start":4487.637,"end":4500.161,"text":"謝謝主席我要先請經濟部的曾次長還有我們環境部學務部長以及農業部的王玉珍王副司長謝謝"},{"start":4504.377,"end":4518.667,"text":"首先先有請行政單位曾次長我先請教你因為有關經濟部的議題這是COP這個第28次的第一大會裡面針對有關轉型脫離化石燃料的一個"},{"start":4519.547,"end":4543.074,"text":"共識裡面有幾項要來跟經濟部討論一下因為接下來這樣的一個目標那檢視我們國內的情形到底達標或是這個難度有沒有很高剛剛其實洪森漢我也有稍微提到比如說我們這個COP28的結論裡面再生能源要成長三倍增至三倍那如果照我們現在的情形來講臺灣的這個再生能源現在是大概佔了整個總"},{"start":4547.555,"end":4551.08,"text":"總發電量的8.26那如果在2030年2022年的時候那接下來我們如果要到2030年要到成長三倍我是大概估算了它的總電量的增加2%"},{"start":4563.857,"end":4583.868,"text":"然後這個再生能源大概要達到24.8%左右如果這樣估算應該是合理那如果其實我們從我們2050年淨零排放的規劃裡面其實再生能源要達到60到70看起來應該我們2030年這個因為我們中間沒有一個中間的目標值"},{"start":4584.969,"end":4590.311,"text":"從經濟部在估算的過程中應該是循序漸進的成長嗎我們2030年要達到24.8這個目標可行嗎跟委員報告就是兩個部分第一個部分是您這一頁簡報裡面提到2030年24.8那個國發會的規劃是要農業部門做到27到30所以要求還更高第二個部分跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":4614.26,"end":4622.848,"text":"這次COP28它在計算的時候是算那個裝置容量我們的裝置容量到2030是依照我們的規劃是絕對會超過三倍的那個是我們現在規劃起來的量以2022年大概14個Giga來做基礎的話我們到2030年會超過40個Giga是目標值"},{"start":4637.621,"end":4658.912,"text":"是目標我們會超過40個Giga所以以這個要求來講再生能源裝置能量成長三倍或是委員提的這一頁簡報就是發電量要比2020年成長三倍都是我們的目標我們也覺得達成的機會非常非常的高那就能源的配置上面這個再生能源是我們現在風力發電路上風電海上風電地面光電屋頂光電還有沒有地熱"},{"start":4665.896,"end":4686.335,"text":"第一個就是我們家大概有三個重要的目標第一個就是加速然後這是既有的一些技術另外一個是就是要讓它更多元化除了風跟光以外地熱是我們接下來第三個最重要的再生能源當然也會配合水利"},{"start":4687.511,"end":4694.295,"text":"好還有水利的部分好謝謝那接下來也要請教您一下就是這個煤電的減排的部分還是我們經濟部的議題那在這個因為我們在這次的COP28裡面也談到說應該要去發展這個所謂碳補桌副排放的"},{"start":4707.242,"end":4707.262,"text":"致獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":4731.524,"end":4755.564,"text":"碳補儲的技術把它抓下來那我要問的是這個量應該很大吧?那未來怎麼儲存?董委員報告就是說這一次跟化石燃料有關的從Face-out一路改變成純芯而為其實化石燃料也有不同的類型燃煤、燃油、天然氣三個的排碳量排碳密度是不一樣的"},{"start":4756.525,"end":4773.984,"text":"那其實這次天然氣的角色也有被特別突出當然它必須配合CCS它必須配合CCS就是碳捕捉封存或是碳捕捉再利用那碳捕捉封存再利用這裡面算到了這個四千萬噸這是您的報告裡面提到的對這是國發會當時在算整個路徑的時候估算的"},{"start":4778.188,"end":4799.995,"text":"那這個CCS的部分現在正在發展中我想說有幾個事情包含我們跟國科會合作的相關項目現在包含國內的地質學者因為台灣的西岸其實事實上是有一些適合的地層能夠來做那個碳的封存但是捕捉的技術"},{"start":4801.255,"end":4821.152,"text":"現在要跟全世界一起合作因為碳的捕捉跟託付然後在封存的中間怎麼樣子能夠提升它的效率捕捉效率也就是說2050年我們碳捕捉的技術可能還會不斷去精進其實這幾年大家包括很多國際上很多大公司都在做這一塊"},{"start":4821.812,"end":4839.527,"text":"我再問的是說這些固化的二氧化碳你捕捉下來的會變成碳酸鈣嗎那這些的儲存你剛剛也提到說西部有地方可以放因為我在估算這個量的時候其實它大概會每四年就可以在大安森林公園這個面積上堆了一座101"},{"start":4841.008,"end":4870.508,"text":"所以這個量蠻大的所以去化啦或是你們有在思考這個問題嗎跟委員報告因為它那個地質上面的尺度因為如果可以的話我們其實應該找這一個專門學門的學者來啦我只是聽他們的說明以後轉述一下我怕有點不精準但它那個整個規它現在估算出來的一個量是遠高於因為這個是0.4億噸一年他們算出來的更高"},{"start":4872.809,"end":4896.038,"text":"對,是比這個還要高的而且它是打到海水底下的淹水層它有一些他們的做法我覺得那個很多技術細節如果在這裡講是,了解到2050年其實很多的技術還有很多課題要面對我想我們政府都聽剛剛政策長這樣講是有在思考的不是完全沒有去想這些事好,謝謝"},{"start":4897.798,"end":4921.208,"text":"再討論這些事情因為這個技術還是有很多要來討論的好 謝謝那我接下來要問有關這一次在COP28裡面也提到甲烷要清零這個是要問農業部跟環境部的部分那我們知道甲烷的一個排放我們2023年的國家排放清澈有記載的有所在就是那個2021年我們甲烷的排放大概是445"},{"start":4924.231,"end":4926.434,"text":"二氧化碳的當量這樣的一個情形其實農業的部分大概佔了188萬噸廢棄物大概佔了180萬噸接下來我們要如果到2030年要所謂的"},{"start":4942.477,"end":4964.764,"text":"這個甲碗淨零請問那個畜牧業因為最主要那個甲碗當然是畜牧業還有我們的廢棄物這個農業部跟環境部有什麼想法給吳委員報告有關廢棄物的部分我們已經在推動就是驗養、發酵然後產生早期的這個部分已經有一些試換的場域所以2030年要清零有沒有問題因為他的目標也是2030年要清零這個甲碗"},{"start":4972.635,"end":4994.654,"text":"跟委員報告最主要我們那個會區主要來自掩埋場掩埋有幾乎造成還有污水場對還有污水場的污泥這個部分那在掩埋場的部分目前我們的這個掩埋場有48座是封閉之後設置太陽能這大概是綜合的部分"},{"start":4995.205,"end":5014.558,"text":"那早期發電在短期之內如果能夠負極的我們會發電如果比較沒有辦法負極的我們是破壞做早期收集的這部分所以目前以高峰相比的話整個掩埋場的甲烷排放量已經降到10%左右了就是降到以前的"},{"start":5014.938,"end":5015.238,"text":"農業部主席"},{"start":5033.913,"end":5052.364,"text":"簡單跟委員報告我們在畜牧產業的部分除了就是說我們積極推動有情緒分尿的資源化處理所有的家庭家序那包括就是說你們也是豔陽發酵嗎對 株枝的部分的話是而且我們已經超過250萬頭以上有在做早期的一個再利用"},{"start":5053.3,"end":5062.991,"text":"是,所以也是朝這個目標應該解決啦好,謝謝那最後我要問那個環境部了來環境部給你一點時間回應這個氣候變遷績效的CCPI對我們台灣的評價說我們告訴第七"},{"start":5071.805,"end":5097.361,"text":"或是我們威視氣體排放倒數第四再生能源比例好像也太低能源耗用跟節能也表現極差我們有那麼差嗎?實際上這個CCPI它的方法學是完全錯誤跟整個COP28、DA大家要追求的方向完全相反"},{"start":5098.441,"end":5121.761,"text":"舉個例子菲律賓跟印度既然排名第六名跟第七名他們在過去這一年碳排量都增加了60、70%而且還在增加燃煤化電廠所以這個完全是違背我們一般的認知更何況我們人均台灣只能每個人一年排2.7萬噸在2030年"},{"start":5124.583,"end":5140.815,"text":"結果菲律賓、印度它可以排到七頓到八頓同樣是人為什麼他們會那麼高所以我們就是說這個CCPI根本是不值得去討論不用花時間去討論我們國內也有寫著發表文章來反駁這個CCPI"},{"start":5145.678,"end":5172.677,"text":"雖然部長這樣講可是當國際的一個應該是NGO來對我們這樣的評價其實對我們來講還是國際形象還是有傷的聯合國另外有一個歐盟的氣候研究中心它的評比裡面在210個國家我們是排45名那個才是根據減碳量的表現所以我們45名在210個裡面我們是前段班的"},{"start":5173.297,"end":5198.115,"text":"好那這個CCPI他才選67個國家去年63個國家進了67個國家那在我們後面還包括韓國、加拿大阿美國跟日本也都大概跟我們都一樣都五六十名所以我個人覺得就是說我們國內我們應該對自己的國家有信心對我們的排碳的努力雖然我們還沒有達到完美的境界但是我們一直朝這個方向努力應該給大家"},{"start":5199.917,"end":5213.033,"text":"我們在政策方面CGPI也對我們的國家的政策肯定我們在政策的部分排名24那它是排碳量這一部分把我們排到很後面因為它的方法根本就錯誤了"},{"start":5214.794,"end":5215.214,"text":"謝謝有請林維周林委員"},{"start":5253.65,"end":5270.183,"text":"謝謝昭緯我們請薛部長有請薛部長林委好薛部長這一次你有去參加這個COP是會議嗎是有嗎有你是做什麼艙"},{"start":5272.764,"end":5297.099,"text":"經濟艙還是商務艙商務艙OK你只要規定嘛部長級的按照可以做商務艙是對不對啊有沒有被升等升成頭等艙有沒有應該有吧你有你有升等成頭等艙沒有因為這個都是幕僚安排所以你是做頭等艙去的誰幫你升等的你知道嗎"},{"start":5299.703,"end":5308.947,"text":"整個形成這些說明一下請你們的幕僚幫忙說明誰幫部長升等頭等艙的跟委員報告這個是按照那個行政院的規定行政院規定只能做商務艙喔部會首長是如果有提供這個頭等艙的話是可以的"},{"start":5326.207,"end":5350.665,"text":"你們是買頭等艙還是買商務艙我們是買頭等艙買的時候就買頭等艙這是符合規定嗎你要確定還是被升等的原來就是買頭等艙按照規定來的不過這個以後我們還是可以檢討有必要一定要做頭等艙嗎"},{"start":5352.895,"end":5362.643,"text":"商務艙我從來沒有做過頭等艙我不知道頭等艙會是什麼什麼樣的滋味商務艙已經很好了我做過商務艙所以這個將來預算上我們再來檢討好來我們談其他你請部長留著"},{"start":5374.75,"end":5382.355,"text":"這個 我們先看一下你們的這個網站不是啦 FB的這個粉專最近你們貼了好幾篇 這一個禮拜貼好幾篇跟本頁無關的這個內容幫行政院在大內宣長照2.0溫暖照顧"},{"start":5401.718,"end":5404.24,"text":"環境部你不是衛福部啊打造溫暖而堅韌的台灣講疫情"},{"start":5414.721,"end":5436.499,"text":"特別條例照顧台灣這跟你有什麼關係?跟環境部有什麼關係?給林委員報告行政院的部位是一體的啦大內宣這個跟大內宣沒有關係啦給林委員報告行政院底下的各部位是一體的那這個部分已經有難怪那個按戰術30、40"},{"start":5439.903,"end":5440.583,"text":"這幾天大家都在討論這個COP會議"},{"start":5453.584,"end":5468.556,"text":"到底在談哪一些內容臺灣還有哪一些可以做得更好的對不對 要專注在本業貼這個也沒人看你們那個評價兩顆星啊你們那個FB的這個評價兩顆星加油啦注重本業啦這才是你的專業嘛"},{"start":5479.009,"end":5504.034,"text":"謝謝林委員 這個本頁當然也注重啦那個比例啊 你那一個禮拜貼三篇就貼的全部是大內宣跟貴部毫無關係的貼文這個行政院有行政院他的這個網站嘛或是他的FB粉絲專頁社團他去貼嘛 你們要注重本頁好 我們來問一下就是說你去參加了這個COP"},{"start":5505.748,"end":5530.265,"text":"二十八28這個會議當然大家在講說我們到底有沒有進步從27到現在27屆到28屆有沒有進步但是因為指標的關係有的NGO評論我們是退步那你們一直講說我們是進步進步的好吧這個就各有各的這個"},{"start":5532.358,"end":5541.004,"text":"指標它採樣的指標的不同不過還是因為這個是叫做德國看守"},{"start":5542.605,"end":5562.673,"text":"的一個NGO每年我知道一個NGO他CCPI每年都會評但是大家也都會參考所以還是注意一下看他用什麼樣的評你剛剛有做了一部分的解釋不過針對這幾項我們把它拿出來看就是針對"},{"start":5569.793,"end":5591.878,"text":"整體表現 這個我們就不講因為整體表現到底用哪一些指標加總起來的然後我們看它的內容臺灣在溫室氣體排放及能源使用中的成績非常差在再生能源和氣候政策方面則是比較差的差評非常差的是能源使用"},{"start":5600.409,"end":5619.899,"text":"這部分我覺得啊是有值得我們檢討的你知道我們現在的能源的發電的組合火力發電佔多少火力發電裡面大概有燃煤、燃氣大概各自相近40%左右嘛所以佔八成啊是"},{"start":5620.728,"end":5638.563,"text":"可是我們已經在再生能源已經從幾乎大概1、2%到現在已經10%了我想這個成長速率大概在國際上排名應該是前段班啦火力發電的降低比例啊做得不好"},{"start":5639.974,"end":5650.698,"text":"我們先從用天然氣來期待煤我們能源都是以進口為主所以各位應該也都知道天然氣不是代表乾淨的能源"},{"start":5654.858,"end":5675.86,"text":"他排...他會排什麼?他會排哪一些?氣體?二氧化碳...也是氣體會,但是他的排...他也是化石原料吧?是,沒錯,但是他的量...大家都要減少化石原料的使用嘛所以這一次的COP他為什麼不敢直接講說Face-up Fossil Fuel?"},{"start":5676.36,"end":5698.593,"text":"你看他也是自己最後必須因為有人反對阿阿拉伯國家反對阿為什麼會反對就是因為他不實際因為他生產石油阿為什麼反對難道你要幫他講話嗎因為我們沒有生產石油這是趨勢嘛這是趨勢嘛"},{"start":5706.516,"end":5714.82,"text":"阿你要幫他們講話說 因為這個沒有通過大家的共識不是幫他們講話啦 因為我們也沒有生產食用 對啊我們要有自己的 是 沒錯 達到2050我們要對自己有信心啦 能夠淨零碳排阿你的 欸 能源那一塊是最主要的啦好啦 我提供幾個 好"},{"start":5730.738,"end":5755.794,"text":"這個二十七的時候他們特別提到臺灣的中火、麥寮電、興達電還有中鋼、林口火力發電被點名是全球最髒的五百個碳排放源全球最髒的五百大"},{"start":5757.079,"end":5772.41,"text":"我們就佔了幾個中火、麥寮電、興達電、中鋼、林口電今年COP28我們台灣政府又被點名說減碳不僅沒有改善還更退步所以這個齁這個這個能源政策齁其實關係到我們整個"},{"start":5786.027,"end":5810.498,"text":"這個2050要達到淨零碳排最大的關鍵點就在能源政策了如果我們的火力發電不管是煤或是天然氣一直沒有辦法減少我們要達到那樣的目標叫做緣木求魚啦那個都是全球500大排碳排最多的500大在我們台灣你說我們做得多好"},{"start":5816.388,"end":5829.055,"text":"有必要 這個我們慢慢來討論有必要整體檢討我們的能源尤其是電因為電是源頭啦你產生電才能讓企業"},{"start":5833.964,"end":5854.381,"text":"運轉讓汽車你即使全部改把它改成電動汽車不直接排碳二氧化碳但是你用的電如果是火力發電這些在路上跑的汽車電車用的還是火力的東西火力的能源所以那個源頭我們要好好的來探討"},{"start":5855.492,"end":5883.805,"text":"好今天時間的關係以後我們再找時間探討等一下我們要去草野協商了好謝謝林委員好謝謝謝謝林委員有請邱太元邱委員好謝謝主席首先謝謝主席排這個有COP28齁"},{"start":5885.56,"end":5913.347,"text":"勾引出我們在這個會期雖然快要結束但是非常重要也是將來不管是政府各部門要努力的一個方向我想今天非常有意義來感謝各部門的努力是不是我看因為我講的比較跟健康但是因為跟環境部還是有關係我再請薛部長好了那衛福部是周市長來來請"},{"start":5915.259,"end":5934.76,"text":"我們一起來分享一下好不好好,有請行政單位,謝謝好,我們看下一張,因為時間的關係好,我們看這一張來講,我會比較Focus在健康Health Risk這個部分Climate Change跟Risk這個部分"},{"start":5936.151,"end":5958.965,"text":"當然我們在2003年世界醫事會世界醫事會擁有1100個醫師世界上它的發動力量是很夠的分佈在都會當然也很多在偏鄉地區在服務其實在2003年的一個宣言尤其是針對一個基層醫療Permanent Health Care當然講它的針對"},{"start":5960.609,"end":5980.055,"text":"當然不只climate change啦當然現在慢性病越來越多流行病的risk也一直承受人類在承受環境的衝擊那個氣候的變遷對健康的影響還有抗生素的一個resistance"},{"start":5983.372,"end":6010.924,"text":"抗藥性等等的都是在未來很重要的那他有特別強調當然基層醫療的action是非常重要的鎖住第一線來建立整個韌性的一個醫療防疫健康體系所以這樣的一個情況那加上COP右邊這邊是COP的主席我們都知道這個碳排空氣汙染"},{"start":6011.84,"end":6036.05,"text":"大概都是對健康非常的有影響我很敬佩我一個學生現在是大嶺慈濟醫院的副院長林明蘭多年來其實他已經奮鬥很久了也算是臺灣之光了像世界上相關的議程都會請他過去我最近也開始跟他密切的來瞭解他來做什麼"},{"start":6037.369,"end":6053.964,"text":"希望把它推展到醫療體系我想這個部分先跟兩位首長說明一下再看下一張好了因為我的問題可能在後面剛好也是我們每一年世界醫師會跟台灣醫師會都會在台灣辦理一個國際研討會"},{"start":6058.379,"end":6069.148,"text":"那不管是外交部或者是衛福部都很熱烈的來執行每一點都相關的都很重要的主題今年的主題是全球健康安全醫療照護體系"},{"start":6070.831,"end":6090.086,"text":"其實我們請的兩個重量級的世界總統都有接見這個女生是世界醫師會會長這男生是理事會主席是韓國韓國他們不約而同都把最近一年的我們在12月半所以都會把今年度大概世界醫師會在全世界各國"},{"start":6091.277,"end":6111.272,"text":"在演講的主題最重要的提到我們這裡因為兩個主題不約而同都在講climate change跟健康的關係而且講得非常精彩我們國內的演講者在這方面還是在防疫以後總要建立一個韌性的一個"},{"start":6112.412,"end":6133.161,"text":"所以他們還稍微好像前進一點點,我們要趕快接上這個進度所以今天的我覺得今天的會議很重要,我們今天會議應該要有一些未來希望呼籲政府或者是全民間各種NEO甚至EJ我們怎麼樣來做,我想這個部分環境部跟"},{"start":6134.318,"end":6157.259,"text":"拜託環境部跟衛福部能夠擔任起這個領導的責任不要到下一次COP29又要來討論一次中間就是按照我們原來的規劃、計畫一直在進行這樣可能我整個review起來可能跟不上時代那我們看下一張氣候當然變遷會造成這個我想我們用眼睛看比較快"},{"start":6159.05,"end":6181.971,"text":"造成區域的差跡與大疾病的形態還有不要忘記心理健康跟社會心理這個部分一直在過去我們裡面沒有我們在檢討我也希望衛福部在以後注意到這個部分和他們change對mental、psychosocial方面的問題對老人家的衝擊我想這不言而喻多的是更有健康很多健康上的問題"},{"start":6186.192,"end":6211.18,"text":"那我這張是希望提出來我要請衛福部這是在我們這次的國際研討會裡面大概大致上我覺得我們一個醫師他是用醫師啦因為是世界醫師會嘛大概有幾個工作可以這樣做我請衛福部我能夠帶回去"},{"start":6212.591,"end":6240.775,"text":"去看看檢討這些將來可不可以未來怎麼樣我們來配合這樣一個趨勢我們未來可不可以做哪些事情已經在做哪些事情了或者在做哪些事情我想這個非常重要讓醫療體系趕快來接上而不是只有在醫療體系還在盤查還在現已盤查探盤查的階段看起來這樣對不來就失敗所以拜託我們好不好?次長可以嗎?好可以"},{"start":6241.595,"end":6264.385,"text":"我希望因為這個會期現在12月,你一國外可以拿一個報告給我們未完嗎?給我們展開為了這一屆的Ending跟下一屆像我們黃雀旺委員這樣繼續再去努力的方向啦好不好,這個大概最重要當然就是說,還有就是可能要有資源進來啦"},{"start":6267.217,"end":6290.482,"text":"今年談預算大概都沒有這個方面的預算但是明年是不是未來我們必須要做這些事情或是重要的我們就來編預算當然包括從前面的先導、專業人的教育、研究不要讓這些研究、關心climate change的這些同仁們"},{"start":6292.768,"end":6311.716,"text":"花了1、2十年的研究還是被很寂寞的在那邊做他們過去的努力也帶領到台灣治理至少不要落後現在我們要給他溫暖、給他支持然後利用他們過去的經驗、成果我們繼續來努力這也是我們吳釗緯應該他的心願當然最重要就是有一個更...所以這一個我拜託那個"},{"start":6321.19,"end":6340.76,"text":"衛福部當然我也希望我過去在這裡也是部會也都不是說你負責什麼都彼此有關係像我們過去衛福部、勞動部也有很多合作的我相信環境部如果在健康跟climate change裡面也有很多合作的平台也很高興我們學部長、學校長"},{"start":6343.499,"end":6371.301,"text":"我們跟國衛院有很多空氣跟健康的工作創起了我們中興大學的醫學系,這個非常的厲害所以我想他對這個部分能夠了解我也拜託衛福部,環境部可以帶回去看看這些問題,可以從你那邊走過來幫忙好我們看下一張有一些建議,我當然是也在這邊"},{"start":6374.465,"end":6397.48,"text":"因為要兩個部來幫忙所以其實我的問題是WMA有很多的建議那目前因為我主要focus在醫療、健康所以我想這整個環境的變化所影響的當然很多很多各部會都有那針對WMA的建議目前政府落實哪些未來要做哪些也在這一次的一個"},{"start":6399.055,"end":6423.334,"text":"大概一個月給我們一個看做多少算多少,未來有什麼構想?看下一張因為現在台灣的行動缺乏氣候變遷可能造成其他問題都沒有把健康問題納入在氣候變遷行動的核心所以我想這個部分希望未來衛福部跟環境部在規劃的時候能把"},{"start":6425.551,"end":6453.445,"text":"造成的驚豪,何況這次你看全部國家簽最多國家簽最多國家簽的先年就是climate change and health是沒錯那個部長帶回去跟部長出去訪查一定很累他這種魔鬼他非常有精神但是我想也會收復很多一定也帶很多那邊開會的會以後會對國家對台灣會有很大的貢獻"},{"start":6455.739,"end":6483.681,"text":"也感謝上上禮拜我們到澎湖也去考察了一些澎湖相關環境、垃圾的問題部長親自帶隊他以一個澎湖長大的小孩有如此的成就但是還是很瞭解到地方的需求給我們很多環境部未來要做的事情給我們收穫很多也感謝"},{"start":6486.005,"end":6512.877,"text":"不會裡面的同仁來參與我覺得那個對澎湖的發展也是非常重要在這邊特別感謝我剛剛提了這些就請那個次長一各位幫忙報告因為接下來我們將要未來我們國家怎麼做、醫界怎麼做我們是未來服役的先副長這邊也幫忙一下好謝謝邱委員特別謝謝吳釗緯"},{"start":6515.182,"end":6524.752,"text":"今天排的這樣子很有意義的一個大家討論好感謝大家謝謝好謝謝邱委員好謝謝下一位請黃秀芳黃委員謝謝主席我們請部長有請部長"},{"start":6543.045,"end":6558.341,"text":"黃委員部長好部長我今天先幾個議題跟民眾可能比較有切身關係就是我們在淨零轉型的政策當中那也一直鼓勵我們的民眾要去這個最切身的就是說可能有原本的這個"},{"start":6559.162,"end":6560.402,"text":"國際社會福利及衛生福利部長"},{"start":6587.709,"end":6598.792,"text":"環境部跟經濟部是不是有什麼樣的這個配套可以鼓勵民眾去購買這個電動機車那一方面這個也是我們的政策嘛對不對那像這樣子的話你們要怎麼樣讓這個電動機車的這個市售的這個比例能夠提升"},{"start":6608.201,"end":6636.652,"text":"剛剛黃委員的確提到過去三年事實上我們有推動太舊換新但是那時候的確沒有把它列為說換新是應該換電動車那民眾都還是去選擇燃油的因為它價格比較便宜不過我們現在已經在第二期在推動已經有改變做法我們除了鼓勵民眾太舊換新之外"},{"start":6637.072,"end":6662.112,"text":"事實上這個心是電動機車為主那同時增加一個增量抵換換句話說我想這個事業開發單位假如他們包括有一些鹽區要增設它有一些污染排放鹽它可以給民眾誘因去轉換為電動車那就可以有那個"},{"start":6662.913,"end":6684.195,"text":"其實有幾項原因第一個可能比較貴這個也是原因之一再來就是說電池的交換站其實不是那麼便利這個也是原因之一所以我不知道說像可能在市區還比較方便如果說比較鄉下的話它根本都沒有電池的交換站"},{"start":6685.436,"end":6700.922,"text":"那像這樣子的話 你們要怎麼去鼓勵 譬如說一些可能在公務單位的外面 譬如說在公所外面啊可以有這樣的一個電池的交換站 那也許對民眾會不會覺得說我這個也比較便利 那我也願意來換這個電動機車"},{"start":6704.984,"end":6722.456,"text":"時給環環報告我們在前瞻第四期的計畫馬上要推動的就是鼓勵各縣市包括鄉鎮去增設充電樁了有將近5點多億的一個預算所以未來再推動這一塊我相信效果就會更明顯了"},{"start":6723.277,"end":6751.449,"text":"對那的確這個infrastructure由基礎建設充電不變事實上民眾換成電動車的意願就不高那前瞻第四級環境部這一部分的這個工作就是來充實這個基礎的設施那現在已經有八個縣市提出來補助了啦那有會增加將近有400多處的公有廠藝的改善電力那經濟部這一部分就是其他"},{"start":6752.209,"end":6775.138,"text":"場域以及積極的補助所以我們跟經濟部是有一個搭配的做法好那今天經濟部也在這邊嘛我想請教一下就是說你們在鼓勵除了電動機車之外那電動巴士那電動巴士其實有很多我們是希望鼓勵是台產的電動巴士而不是從國外可能是從中國這邊中國製的然後進來台灣再組合"},{"start":6778.619,"end":6778.759,"text":"市長,市長,市長,"},{"start":6806.791,"end":6829.611,"text":"處理環境部這部分就是這個充電樁在公有地的地方偵測充電樁以及鼓勵各縣市開設更多利用電動公車來做營運營運增加多少人我們就會給他補助是鼓勵營運而不是在補助設備這個是我們精進的做法"},{"start":6830.311,"end":6846.79,"text":"其實我覺得現在在各縣市的這個電動巴士其實可以減少這個污染源我們也可以感受得到因為以往這個巴士如果在啟動的時候一定會有一股這個油煙這個油味所以我覺得說漸漸的這種味道是減少了所以我覺得這個是政府"},{"start":6851.415,"end":6876.616,"text":"的一個這個方向那我也希望就是說未來不論是電動機車也好或者是電動巴士應該是要去推動那如果說像現在電動機車不是那麼普及的話那是不是剛剛這個部長講的可能就是電池的這個交換站或充電樁那是鼓勵要去廣設應該是也要廣設才會有辦法去普及"},{"start":6877.698,"end":6878.48,"text":"故體再生難料"},{"start":6885.98,"end":6908.116,"text":"在前陣子我們看到就是說你們有關於這個就是在108年起你們有推動這個可燃的這個廢棄物轉製成固體再生燃料這個SRF那我覺得最近也有聽到就是說有的業者是假SRF的這個名義然後去行"},{"start":6909.136,"end":6921.745,"text":"實質的分化爐也看到50%的廠商可能沒有未依核准的計畫書去操作那我想請教部長像類似這樣子的話是"},{"start":6924.961,"end":6951.918,"text":"你們是你們整個源頭就有問題還是說這些業者他只是用這個名義然後實際上是真的他就是在做混化樓嗎給黃委員報告的確這一塊我們非常謝謝包括很多委員的關心以及媒體的報導那我們也深切去檢討那的確發現以往在包括審查"},{"start":6953.659,"end":6981.533,"text":"SIF生產製造的這一塊以往都是書面審查而已那當然審查的這個工作不只是做環境部有些是歸地方政府因為地方政府他有開設產業發展園區那他們在那個園區裡面設置那那一塊事實上是縣市政府的權責不過中央跟地方本來就一體的所以現在環境部已經積極的包括把生產SIF的規範"},{"start":6982.834,"end":6992.324,"text":"以及使用SRF的規範多做一些修正正在進行當中所以以前只有書審而已對 只有書審那你現在應該要實際到現場去看它是不是有這樣的技術啊沒錯 未來我們會有三個步驟除了書審接下來市營運也要看那接下來在營運當中還要"},{"start":7003.735,"end":7030.983,"text":"隨時去監督我們希望把它更具體的落實也來監測看看到底這些廠商有沒有按照既定的計劃書規範來做我相信未來是可以做很大的改善同時跟委員報告以往我們是把SRF只有一個標準原因是我們是以品質管制的角度來看歐洲他們是以產品的"},{"start":7031.403,"end":7031.703,"text":"中文字幕 沛"},{"start":7062.975,"end":7064.837,"text":"M2事件之後本席也有針對前環保署的"},{"start":7089.297,"end":7096.431,"text":"督察總隊李隊長的部分有提出要求我們要調查"},{"start":7097.657,"end":7122.92,"text":"調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公佈前天請任秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公佈呢?"},{"start":7124.885,"end":7125.165,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7145.9,"end":7171.014,"text":"速公佈是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署"},{"start":7172.116,"end":7200.31,"text":"的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保局的劉市長好 崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三該辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在在確認那個版本是什麼因為"},{"start":7200.99,"end":7227.263,"text":"因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有嘛對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案"},{"start":7228.003,"end":7238.867,"text":"本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對"},{"start":7245.029,"end":7263.02,"text":"部長 就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150"},{"start":7265.541,"end":7280.433,"text":"那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金額離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換"},{"start":7287.398,"end":7302.274,"text":"那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢 譬如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎 部長"},{"start":7307.547,"end":7332.374,"text":"這一點我可不可以請我們大區區的蔡市長來回覆一下比較細節的部分謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到可是市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊"},{"start":7334.294,"end":7346.059,"text":"市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的風險會更高這個是很可怕的"},{"start":7352.142,"end":7363.09,"text":"不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都"},{"start":7367.293,"end":7385.269,"text":"都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換"},{"start":7386.15,"end":7410.957,"text":"那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢"},{"start":7412.918,"end":7438.01,"text":"我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊"},{"start":7438.59,"end":7463.941,"text":"又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康"},{"start":7464.537,"end":7464.697,"text":"徐志榮、徐偉仁"},{"start":7491.124,"end":7495.065,"text":"先做一個宣告 今日無臨時提案 謝謝謝謝主席 拜託請薛部長有請薛部長部長好好 許文豪部長跟召委一行這個COP28大家辛苦了啦不會不會 應當的"},{"start":7516.616,"end":7530.815,"text":"我們剛落幕的這個COP28其中今年的會議主題就是目標就是要盤點巴黎協定要求的那個盤點是工業革命前的那個基準全球平均升溫控制在"},{"start":7532.643,"end":7551.958,"text":"兩度C以內控制氣溫上升幅度在1.5度C為上限部長您覺得我們的減碳速度有達到雖然我們不是肺炎國有達到我們巴黎協定全球判定的要求了嗎目前看起來事實上臺灣表現應該是相當的好了特別是包括"},{"start":7552.938,"end":7571.061,"text":"這次大會通過的一個結議裡面再生能源在2030年規劃希望能夠有三倍能源效益我大概也有看到您的說明我們都優移其他國家的9%我們好像都有20幾%所以你說的那個三倍不是什麼問題一樣的三倍在這個報紙裡面"},{"start":7580.319,"end":7604.271,"text":"當然不是結論啦早上講的就是倡議倡議這個核能新方向美陸等二十多國富裕全球核電產能在2050年提高三倍當然部長您也有回應了這個標題是說核廢料不解決核能就是假議題啦您講的三個那個"},{"start":7606.18,"end":7607.902,"text":"還有核能安全及全民共識"},{"start":7627.349,"end":7652.194,"text":"它這個三點理由它是寫安全性、核廢料處理以及核廢存放地點的共識所以我一直看這個第三點就是包含在第二點嘛您講的是比較正確啦還是要全民的共識我相信全民應該會有共識啦在那個前提之下"},{"start":7654.226,"end":7658.193,"text":"那不禁又讓我想到說我們現在政府的政策不是在講2025非核家園"},{"start":7662.735,"end":7690.263,"text":"給習委員報告齁2025即使我們沒有談到火候加減本身我們也就是沒有核能電廠了因為現在核二核三到2025本來也就是要Face out就是要服役了意思就是說到2025我們核能發電都歸零了大概歸零了因為現在你要再重新啟動也來不及了研議呢時間也過了研議的時間它有一定的程序所以已經也過了嘛"},{"start":7690.796,"end":7696.558,"text":"那重點來了,是不是要經濟部的長官回答?那到時候我們再電過嗎?本來我們的%數是天然氣50、火力30、力能20,早上聽了一下好像"},{"start":7715.208,"end":7741.58,"text":"才10%左右是不是哪一個再生能源沒有不會再生能源是今年就超過10%的對 那我們目標是要20%是不是我們到2026年2026年就可以達到20%就可以達到20%是的這樣可以完全期待那個核能發電廠核能現在統統停掉嗎核能去年8%今年大概剩5%"},{"start":7743.083,"end":7767,"text":"那它原來的狀況就是核一二三大概四百億度簡單的講2025年核能發電2025年的時候月底也不是說一月初啦簡單講是應該講年末啦2025年的年底核能發電通通要停掉然後我們台灣的電力不配不夠"},{"start":7768.086,"end":7787.133,"text":"那個跟委員報告就是說河山的二號機除役的時間是2025年的五月不是年底啦是五月就會除役我是說最慢啦好那它的狀況是現在的狀況就是整個供電的狀況我們的估計就是都是足夠的我們先來討論最主要是怎麼樣再加速減碳"},{"start":7789.232,"end":7802.962,"text":"所以結論是說2025我說年底啦你說5月啦5月核酸就停掉了以後我們不擔心會切電我們供電是穩定的是的沒有問題是國人"},{"start":7804.909,"end":7825.66,"text":"民生用電、工業用電都可以確保那應該是算很好的消息但是為什麼那些國家他又要倡議說要到2050年提高分農發電三倍呢當然就是因為分農發電是比較"},{"start":7829.625,"end":7842.967,"text":"部長的前提之下,安全、火廢料處理等等,是恆隆發電一方面便宜,二方面可能碳排少"},{"start":7845.042,"end":7869.282,"text":"跟委員報告第一個就是比較高的比例他們本身都有合工業就倡議倡議的國家本身他們有合工業這是第一件事第二個件事情就是這個事情的倡議其實是來自於就是要在資本市場取得資金的投注其實遇到了困難所以才會有這個倡議我想說這個是在那個會場上我們看到報導的現實狀況"},{"start":7870.723,"end":7888.877,"text":"那話再講回來雖然2025非核核電都停掉但是畢竟核能發電總比這個火力發電甚至於比天然氣發電更能夠減少碳排嘛"},{"start":7890.398,"end":7914.909,"text":"應該是這樣子講就是說每一個發電它的優劣狀況不一樣就是就全生命週期來講一方面便宜啦但我的意思是說在部長講的這個前提之下我們是不是還可能還有昏龍發電因為我們最終的目標還是要減少碳排嘛跟委員報告所以才會說"},{"start":7918.052,"end":7936.111,"text":"譬如我們現在都在講說保持開放的態度當然有關新恆隆技術發展什麼融如何我記得好像沈院長好像也這樣講也不是說2025以後就絕對台灣沒有恆隆發展好像他的態度也不是這樣的"},{"start":7937.679,"end":7963.457,"text":"給習委員報告實際上像美國現在就積極發展核融合因為現有的大部分在商場的大部分都是什麼時候成熟我們也還不知道還沒有成熟那我再跟委員報告一下美國原本在發展叫做小型模組反應器SMR事實上它在兩個禮拜以前也已經決定要把那個停掉因為成本要越高"},{"start":7964.338,"end":7991.457,"text":"而且發電的整個效力也跟他們預期的事實上是有落差最後我有點想要講的是說那個參與的國家都國土很寬廣是沒錯他們核廢料處理沒問題我知道好像以前有那個張憲毅的事件其實台電好像也有跟北韓有簽約過就核廢料的處理甚至於跟中國大陸也有太極市長你在搖頭是沒有這回事嗎"},{"start":7994.741,"end":8015.2,"text":"好像文獻上我是查到資料是有啦至少有touch我的意思是說那個美國老大你就是那時候就是因為他反對嘛反對這樣子所以就不了了之嘛那我的意思是說像台積電用電量這麼的大那你美國國土又這麼的大"},{"start":8016.297,"end":8032.616,"text":"就是算我們要繼續核能發電的話我們核廢料沒有辦法處理的話你美國老大你又要我們台積電的這個電子產品我們萬一電不夠的話你總要幫我們處理這個核廢料我大概的意思是這樣子"},{"start":8040.261,"end":8059.748,"text":"這一題是這樣子就是高階核廢料最終處置這個事情跨國處理到現在國際公約是不同意這件事這是第一個第二個是你剛才提到就是說跟其他國家就是核廢料的減容處理那個事情應該是在上上屆"},{"start":8063.129,"end":8084.747,"text":"市長這樣子啦 總歸宜記啦2025非核加嚴 電力可以不用擔心 這個我們聽起來大家就很安心了啦最後一次的委員會 我也不希望副總統霍簡年等一下站起來啦 我也很對不起他啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝市長 謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":8088.588,"end":8090.83,"text":"剛剛落幕的聯合國第28COP28"},{"start":8118.07,"end":8138.388,"text":"首度將健康納入討論議程根據世界衛生組織估計由於氣候變遷導致空汙、高溫以及疾病的傳播加劇每年有1.9億人的生命健康安全受到衝擊呼籲各國來加速加強醫療體系的"},{"start":8141.93,"end":8159.975,"text":"應對資源 資源就是說投入經費本次大會有124個國家簽署氣候與健康宣言政府還有開放銀行、慈善機構等等共同承諾投資投入10億美金來對抗氣候變遷帶來的健康危機"},{"start":8162.896,"end":8175.228,"text":"其中,全球基金提供3億美元,路克斐勒基金也打算投入1億美元,還有主辦國阿拉伯聯合大公國和數家慈善機構預計投入7.7億美元,用於因升溫惡化的熱帶疾病。"},{"start":8186.019,"end":8204.438,"text":"大公國內比較熱嘛所以他要投入這個升溫惡化帶來的熱帶疾病那我們回頭來檢視我們國內這幾年來台灣高溫report記錄隨之而來的熱傷害還有高溫疾病越來越多第一線醫師反映啊"},{"start":8205.659,"end":8232.507,"text":"氣候變遷導致疾病傳染途徑增加在原本是以前南部盛行的登革熱這個已逐漸到全臺地區而且出現了兩萬個這個病例有史以來最多的病例那臺灣民眾也深受空氣污染威脅我們必須強化公衛體系的資源所以首先請教環境部長"},{"start":8236.009,"end":8243.822,"text":"在這個明年開增碳費對不對那開增碳費使用在哪方面哪些面向上"},{"start":8245.089,"end":8268.403,"text":"氣候變遷因應法裏面有如列13項啦那我非常支持剛剛張偉英影片裏面有提到事實上利用碳費也來支持整個健康有嗎?我們的有嗎?國內的有支持健康公共衛生體系嗎?呃相關的一個 有沒有?對啊這些開端碳費之後有沒有?"},{"start":8269.94,"end":8288.114,"text":"議員會議員會議員"},{"start":8289.369,"end":8301.656,"text":"公委員報告目前是用於溫室氣體減量還有氣候變遷調適所以沒有公共衛生嘛醫療公共衛生這個碳費沒有放在那邊如果沒有就跟行政院爭取啊"},{"start":8303.772,"end":8328.261,"text":"這是沒有嘛對不對我們來爭取看看未來有沒有可能把它納入所以就是要爭取因為呢我覺得我們跟國際離得很遠並沒有把健康這個綠色健康醫療放進去所以呢碳費沒有放在醫療公共衛生上面所以請跟行政院爭取然後呢我再提醒本次大會呢"},{"start":8330.218,"end":8347.657,"text":"氣候與健康宣言這本次的大會那這個我提醒那另外一個我關心的面向就是醫療產業減碳的議題我們在去年3月公布的臺灣2050年淨零碳排路徑以及策略的總說明"},{"start":8349.339,"end":8374.196,"text":"剛剛部長講到其實裡面講到十二項關鍵戰略中絲毫未見綠色醫療所以八個組織部會中衛福部的角色是真空的十二個項目關鍵戰略沒有見到綠色醫療所以衛福部所以次長我今天今天只有我請衛福部出席對不對只有我邀請你上來所以我要問衛福部"},{"start":8374.776,"end":8395.664,"text":"那衛福部薛部長有提到說對於淨零碳排更直言說上一次我們問他的時候他說非超支債務的因素太多了你說綠色醫療你衛福部的角色說非超支債務的這個因素太多那站在醫療的綠色醫療關口上衛福部明年度只編列多少你知道嗎2000萬以內1965萬"},{"start":8398.425,"end":8426.425,"text":"所以這個六五萬的預算辦理什麼減碳教育所以在醫療還沒減碳轉型之前竟然好像代替了教育部在教育做減碳教育你是教育部在做減碳教育轉型所以請問次長在辦理減碳教育後你把一千九百六十五萬在辦減碳教育在教育之後"},{"start":8428.266,"end":8454.996,"text":"醫療產業在近鄰路上能夠得到什麼的協助呢?跟委員報告一下這裡面的教育其實應該是包含所謂的教育輔導教育什麼?教育以及輔導對啦!就是代替教育部的事情這教育嘛你並沒有爭取來做這個公共衛生的防治啊也不只是這樣綠色公共衛生也不只是這樣我們對於說醫院的時候他應該要怎麼做才對這裡面的檢探教育怎麼做對這對檢探的觀念"},{"start":8457.477,"end":8486.024,"text":"對他第一個觀念要改變那這樣子他第一個就是第一個他成本降低嘛那第二個的話那他本身的對這個裡面的檢探的確是環境是有貢獻的那第一個就是說這裡面的輔導要讓他知道那尤其是他醫院裡面他哪些地方是他可以著手的那這裡面是基本上是有做一些的盤點的事項那經由我們請人然後到醫院裡面進行這輔導的時候那這方面是可以做一些事情的那當然部長所提到的有很多的地方不見得"},{"start":8486.604,"end":8514.751,"text":"以下就能夠做得到的地方那當然是包含我們的上下游採購整個涉及到社會產業的這部分層面的部分那這部分的話需要我們另外在後面後續在 跨部會的對另外再需要其他不管還當然也包含跨部會那逐步的往這方面來推動所以我建議衛福部你知道在2030前子呢我們我們有多少預算嗎在在進行攤牌的預算9000億啊所以衛福部應該要去爭取啊做綠色醫療啊"},{"start":8516.231,"end":8533.999,"text":"對沒有錯那這部分的確是要讓不能不能像部長說的說這個不可非可操之的因素太多不能這樣講應該是我們要主動involve進去啊是循序漸進嘛我們能做的我們趕快先做我們不能做的那跨部會我們一起來看看是怎麼樣逐步的來推動"},{"start":8535.22,"end":8551.381,"text":"市長我提醒你為什麼因為醫療減碳方式太多了舉個例子我曾舉例子說噴一罐氣喘的噴劑呢這個碳排量大概等於汽車跑300公里做改成粉狀粉狀的話馬上降到4公里"},{"start":8552.462,"end":8575.823,"text":"馬上這個汽車跑四公里的這個排放量就夠所以呢這個醫療跟藥物的減量其實是非常是大有可為所以我們該花很多時間我們要來重視這個所以這個衛福部環保部呢都是在政策面向要給予醫療院所足夠的誘因誘因就是說告訴他們這樣做能夠帶來大家好"},{"start":8576.824,"end":8605.091,"text":"對不對 要自主管理說對不對一方面讓他知道那一方面如果這部分可以的話那盡量提供他有營往這方面來走那請問你將來這個醫院如何進行探排查探盤查我們會委託或委託相關的團體然後逐漸進去來協助他來做這方面的盤查那這個我知道你有提到這個近鄰探排的指引對不對但是沒有講到那個時間那個期程吧要多久內"},{"start":8606.111,"end":8634.086,"text":"我們先了解了之後再做排程因為這剛開始現在要再進行的時候先了解這樣排這個排程比較務實有沒有預計大概多久內有多少家醫院要達到探排查探盤查因為呢要不要從醫學中心開始啊等等我們先輔導10家然後看看他們裡面的情形數字大概是先從醫學中心開始嘛對不對對從比較大的這個醫院開始所以呢表示我們衛福部"},{"start":8635.126,"end":8656.028,"text":"有注意到齁那這個COP28在12月落幕嘛對不對12日落幕本次會議六大宣言中健康議題就佔了兩項氣候與健康宣言我講議題啦齁還有氣候健康資金象徵著健康在氣候變化討論中從過去的配角"},{"start":8656.889,"end":8675.437,"text":"要身為氣候行動的核心所以期許我們的政府可以從綠色醫療和極端氣候下的健康威脅兩個面向來著手建立對氣候變遷具有高度韌性的醫療衛生系統醫療韌性是什麼呢就因應對策"},{"start":8679.899,"end":8691.531,"text":"要建立高度的醫療韌性的對策來建立醫療衛生系統在為我們國內的今後創造更大的生活福祉這樣兩位部長、部長、次長對嗎?對!謝謝!請關心綠色醫療!謝謝!"},{"start":8711.693,"end":8735.829,"text":"下一位吳欣盈委員謝謝有請部長還有外交理事長 薛部長跟理事長部長還有次長好 吳昭偉好"},{"start":8739.474,"end":8760.106,"text":"謝謝兩位我剛剛其實剛聽到這個薛部長有報告就是說以專業務實跟有貢獻來報告這次COP的出國那可是我覺得我個人感覺是一個mixed picture然後我覺得是見仁見智啦比如說像這七年來台灣的這個碳用使用率增加那"},{"start":8762.467,"end":8781.316,"text":"自然天然氣增加以整個經濟成長或百分比不同角度看這個東西會有不同的解答不知道我的投影還沒出來我知道外交部這次有安排一些會議比如說"},{"start":8787.83,"end":8815.794,"text":"在就是說一些會議那像這裡頭的照片是跟外交部這邊立法院安排的那有一些是我自己私人的一些會議那像比如說在右上方這位跟Michael Sharon就是我FB有PO的這個綠色金融大使我本來是在藍區跟他見面可是因為臨時我們沒有辦法立法委員全部四位都沒辦法進去嘛所以我就是在外面的這個"},{"start":8816.474,"end":8836.334,"text":"公共空間跟他喝杯咖啡然後把我本來在藍區想跟他討論的事情在外面討論那他之前在聯合國從開發計畫的UNDP裡頭是擔任永續金融中心的高級顧問在2016年到2019年期間他也擔任G20的永續金融研究小組的主席"},{"start":8837.728,"end":8860.476,"text":"跟藍區對那同時就是說他也比如說在2016年的時候幫中國銀行在英國的證交所發他們第一個Green Bond他經驗非常的豐富那他有很多一些這個Private Public Partnership的一些經驗那然後接下來我有一個這個影片跟大家快速的來分享一下"},{"start":8869.189,"end":8895.025,"text":"一些建築物等等的大家可以看到就說像這COP的現場比較明顯的一些建築物等等的我們就被交代要非常低調要到大家回台北的時候才能PO比較辨識度高的COP地標在這邊反而用民間的企業或是基金會進來相對來講算榮譽"},{"start":8910.731,"end":8913.89,"text":"這是在阿布達比的部分可是其他那些都在COP"},{"start":8917.705,"end":8943.374,"text":"今天就看到了Fusion跟Fission的公司Fusion是台美合作的公司叫做Alpharine它是在Monterey, California跟在台北這邊合作的公司Fusion呢是唯一真的是Zero Waste的部分因為其實我現在講很多綠能的像Solar跟Wind的話它事實上還是有一些Treatment Problems這個部分但還是在研究當中能不能真的是"},{"start":8944.274,"end":8969.946,"text":"大幅的量產還需要一段時間各個現場的車子都是電動車不同的國家也有他們一些各國管那裡頭還有分藍區跟綠區藍區的話就是各國領袖跟智庫的人員可以參加一般在做一些key decision maker綠區的話呢就是很多的一些新創跟綠能相關的產業或是一些綠色金融很好的一些典範呢也在這邊跟大家可以分享"},{"start":8972.907,"end":8988.816,"text":"所以我想展示就是說其實在台灣的這個外交困境當中呢是非常艱難的然後想要解釋下一頁William麻煩你就是說其實事實上呢我其實有被邀請兩場在所謂的Parliamentary Pavilion就是週一"},{"start":8989.406,"end":9005.221,"text":"上午的時候跟週二下午的時候都有作為與談人可是因為就是沒有最後拿到藍區的這個證件呢我也沒有辦法進去就相當的可惜那之後呢其實星期四的時候因為我們去COP那COP是星期四剛好休會"},{"start":9006.002,"end":9026.113,"text":"所以我就自己跑跨了邊界去了阿布達比然後這時候也想跟兩位分享就是說其實我是被邀請也是去做與談人那這次有辦法進去因為我是用民間的名義進去的這是國際智庫米爾肯研究院然後中間這位是Mike Milken本人"},{"start":9028.794,"end":9041.54,"text":"第五屆中東及非洲國家開放會關心未來再生能源用金融帶動產業轉型Milken專注四個主軸教育、健康、新創企業、金融"},{"start":9049.455,"end":9068.793,"text":"同時我要提到其實這次過去阿布達比邊界的時候你也發現到阿布達比現在是有全世界最大的太陽能板的面積它是跟中國做合作的這也代表石油的國家它可以重新再做能源轉型"},{"start":9071.235,"end":9091.474,"text":"同時它現在空間大、太陽多、風也多它其實要整個做這個轉型是非常有利基點的那這也呼應就是說其實我覺得臺灣必須要勇敢面對就是說如果真的我們要變成一個能源堅韌的國家的話我們其實選擇是不多的因為我們是一個小島國"},{"start":9092.455,"end":9116.403,"text":"然後我們也沒有很多的天然的資源不像中東的話連這次我們私下跟一些歐洲的國家的議員交流的話像盧森堡他們覺得他們不支持核能可是他們是跟邊界的比利時買核能啊對不對那這些國家邊界他們雖然不支持核能不簽署這些合約不代表說他們沒有在用核能的電"},{"start":9116.943,"end":9133.442,"text":"可是臺灣就是一個鎖國我們要在這個情況之下怎麼樣去突破這個困境我覺得不考慮啟動核能的話是不務實的那再來就是想要分享就是說下一位麻煩William"},{"start":9134.492,"end":9148.872,"text":"就是說我們實際上面對外交的這個困境那這個是我從這個CSIS一個智庫它2020年的報告後面的這個截圖就是這列出所有現在臺灣撤出聯合國之後所有的"},{"start":9149.192,"end":9151.693,"text":"全體委員會及全體委員會及全體委員會及全體委員會及全體委員會及全體委員會及"},{"start":9175.2,"end":9202.442,"text":"國家人口250萬人是全世界的0.3人口的面積而已所以是台灣在這個情況之下我們要什麼樣的立場不只是用政府機關因為這個原因這次我們四個委員都沒有辦法進藍區的場部長進你也沒辦法進去嘛 對不對那我們要怎麼樣能發揮其他我看到這些NGO的一些membership為什麼我突然講到這個Asian Development Bank就是亞洲開發銀行呢就接下來想要分享就是說"},{"start":9203.243,"end":9220.164,"text":"我個人的看法是如果今天台灣必須要走到淨零碳排的話我們的金融產業必須要跟國際接軌然後呢我們的所有的官方的金融機構必須官民一把尺才能讓我們跟國際接軌同時能淨零碳排淨零轉型"},{"start":9220.584,"end":9246.175,"text":"我們的金融產業必須要走到國際化那你可以看就是說這次像COP有這個所謂的Loss and Damage Fund那這Loss and Damage Fund裡頭呢其實就是所謂的對我而言是一個叫做氣候二軌的這個氣候金融的二軌外交那譬如說這個像譬如說氣候金融投資主權基金等等的這都是可以互相彼此投資的不然您先領洗我知道對去看省預算好謝謝對那"},{"start":9249.634,"end":9269.691,"text":"比如說這次我有跟這個諾魯諾魯我們一個邦交國做交流諾魯他的國家還比帛琉更小我問他說你們現在的這個淨零的方向是如何你們現在能源用的怎麼樣他說他們是用Diesel就用柴油為主他說我們只要裝兩個區塊我們島上只要裝兩個區塊的太陽能板我馬上50%就可以go clean那我說那請問一下你的這個"},{"start":9277.522,"end":9292.351,"text":"你這個solar panel誰幫你裝他說中國幫他裝的然後同時他說最近要蓋個碼頭是中國幫他做的那我說欸納魯你不是我們台灣的邦交國嗎那你是邦交國為什麼這個案子是給這個中國做他說中國就是Asian Development Bank去做這個談判的"},{"start":9293.852,"end":9315.874,"text":"所以我的意思就是說其實透過這個ADB亞洲開發銀行這是我們台灣是Full Membership的我們在這一場這樣這部分打輸的話我覺得是相當的可惜的而且要提到說您看您外交部現在這個報告上面也有講就是說你們外交部的報告對於COP說有充分發揮外交的效益我會覺得是說以提供你們參考"},{"start":9316.735,"end":9336.866,"text":"像很多國家澳洲、西班牙、意大利跟加拿大他們的MOFA跟MOE是併在一起的他們的名字叫做Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade我真的非常的覺得是個非常重要的議題所以可以呼應說我們的外交跟經濟是不是可以一起並肩作戰而這樣子的話才不會讓我們的這個邦交國像納魯"},{"start":9338.507,"end":9342.71,"text":"此外,其中一屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及其中一屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及其中一屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及其中一屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及其中一屆"},{"start":9357.522,"end":9371.796,"text":"中國廠商為什麼會得標?事實上這邊也講到Kathy其實中國廠商他在全世界各地都用低價的方式去競標那他背後有大量的政府或其他的補貼所以很多的國家都在抱怨說這些投標機制可能要做修改"},{"start":9372.496,"end":9394.022,"text":"只是跟委員補充,ATB台灣當然會非常積極的運用我們是一個Full Membership的身份來充分的發揮我們也用很多機制來鼓勵我們的業者去參加ATB的標案那只是說在剛才您提到這個特定的標案上面,最終是中國的企業得標ATB是甲方,他來招標,然後得標的企業是中國,不是中國在協助農業"},{"start":9395.942,"end":9409.35,"text":"外交部跟行政單位是講說要作戰的時候尤其我們這麼多委員出現我們應該是走大門走正路的我知道我們台灣的外交處境是非常有困境的這次我們這樣子去"},{"start":9411.451,"end":9432.402,"text":"我覺得我很對不起納稅人我覺得我沒有發揮到我們該發揮到的效應如果真的要做立院的外交的話我們等立法院的院長請這些國際的人員來就好了舉例講好幾個我遇到這些跟我們後來吃飯、找飯的人他們的牌子都寫著Party Overflow我還在玩牌子上也寫著Party Overflow這是什麼意思"},{"start":9432.822,"end":9453.489,"text":"PARTY不是開PARTY的PARTY那PARTY是一個團體的意思PARTY OVERFLOW那些委員告訴我是說是不能發言的委員才跟我們來吃早飯在飯店外面跟我們吃早飯的報告委員這個情況在COP28以前一直存在我們會持續的跟立法院一起來努力這一次有一些特殊狀況我相信委員很清楚有FULL MEMBERSHIP剛剛那些組織我們應該積極的把相關的窗口不管是經濟部財政部或什麼的相關剛剛那些"},{"start":9460.692,"end":9483.665,"text":"全體組織的做上對口來發揮真正的功能然後一些比較我們不是正式的會員的就要走正的路像這次這些NPO全部都是簽認騰一個中國的那我們用這些政見精確化我們立法院在國會外交台協助一起推動我們當然希望所有人都可以走大門走正路"},{"start":9484.365,"end":9503.133,"text":"當時我在現場的時候,我們拿到我們之前你給我們的證件要進去的時候,當場就有聯合國人在我現場跟我講,我聽到了,就跟你們講說,you betrayed my trust, this is not how it's supposed to be, you shouldn't be here"},{"start":9503.633,"end":9523.148,"text":"委員其實在委員很清楚您出發前我們兩次有跟您溝通今年情況比較特殊一點那我相信您也知道特殊的地方是什麼地方沒有什麼特殊的地方你們要的方式就是說你們要的話就是要用正當的方式跟國際上做交流否則這樣你會讓所有想幫助我們都很難做的事情謝謝你"},{"start":9524.429,"end":9538.577,"text":"然後最後不好意思我要講的最後一頁就是不好意思主席就是那個關於這個這個是環境部的部分環境部的話就是說我想要想要追就是說因為不好意思我之前跟部長是追過就是這個10年的這個環境部的這個途徑藍圖"},{"start":9542.799,"end":9554.511,"text":"因為其實我之前多次也呼籲就是說碳費、碳稅、碳底換的交易、碳交放的平台這四種到底要陸續怎麼樣有些配套措施因為這不只是對產業還有這個臺灣這個金融接軌金融這個"},{"start":9559.095,"end":9579.435,"text":"碳排金融接軌的國際性是非常重要的因為很多產業業界都不了解就是說碳權到底是要不要買然後要買多少然後未來這東西可能成為金融商品然後有沒有一些其他碳定價的機制在那產業要轉型的話是需要很多年的時間不能一次馬上到位"},{"start":9579.795,"end":9594.161,"text":"那如果整個架構沒有提出來的話這樣子產業很難做一些中長期的規劃所以想了解說你們什麼時候可以做出一個10年的路徑圖上次我跟部長問過那看看市長今天有什麼樣的想法可以給我承諾嗎?什麼時候可以做出來?"},{"start":9597.501,"end":9615.472,"text":"跟委員報告我們之前這個有跟也是委員有提到說我們應該可以在一個三個月內在三個月內因為最主要還是要看政府這一段我們要做中長期的規劃我們先在目前是先以碳價就是這個收碳費為主"},{"start":9616.328,"end":9629.735,"text":"那這個三個月內我們做的規劃確實會依委員的指示所以你是說只有三個月能做探費沒有沒有我說三個月內我們會把十年的路徑圖跟委員做報告就是整體的好這要時間出來謝謝謝謝吳委員下一位陳寅委員"},{"start":9650.903,"end":9652.544,"text":"因為部長已經離開那我就先請這個氣候變遷署的蔡署長"},{"start":9675.168,"end":9699.734,"text":"有請署長委員好署長好這次的第28屆全球的氣候變遷高峰會那環境部有參加這是這次的參加有是有透過這個非政府組織的幫忙嗎是跟委員報告我們向來在參與COP相關的會議都是以"},{"start":9700.174,"end":9714.227,"text":"我們國內的非政府組織也就是NGO的名義來參加那我相信你們這次也有收集不少這個相關的資料回來是那這次的會場是不是區分"},{"start":9715.628,"end":9739.286,"text":"剛剛也有委員提到了這個區分了這個藍區跟綠區嘛那我想請教一下署長綠區在官方文宣上是不是有強調就是要開放給原住民團體跟一般民間組織那希望可以促進原住民團體跟政府的對話是 跟委員報告在主辦國它在會場上面它分為藍區跟綠區最主要藍區是"},{"start":9741.587,"end":9756.535,"text":"需要有這個大費許可的報名的證件才能進去那立區它通常就會開放給沒有持有這個報名證件但是可以當地這個去登記啦或者是這樣子一個方式去進去參觀"},{"start":9758.39,"end":9776.521,"text":"好 那個署長你接下來可不可以回答一下為什麼因為我剛剛有提到但是你在附送回答的時候沒有特別再提因為我剛剛有強調就是說綠區在官方文宣上就是有要開放給原住民團體"},{"start":9778.363,"end":9789.956,"text":"因為我是原住民的立法委員所以我會特別關注這個部分那我想請教署長你可不可以回答就是以你的理解為什麼要特別針對原住民團體來開放呢"},{"start":9792.675,"end":9806.966,"text":"這個部分的話我沒有特別去了解說但是因為在藍區事實上也有周邊會議我沒有要關心藍區的部分我在這邊要跟你討論綠區特別開放給原住民團體這個部分"},{"start":9808.587,"end":9836.614,"text":"我想因為其實氣候公約他非常重視就是跟原住民還有跟這個相關的團體的一些對話跟溝通所以主辦國他或許有這個規劃但這個部分確實我沒有因為我今年沒有到現場去參加我想這個有沒有到現場應該是沒有關係那我覺得其實在整個氣候變遷下是這樣子如果署長不清楚也沒關係"},{"start":9837.634,"end":9857.535,"text":"那我今天把這樣的觀念特別在這邊跟署長、讓署長了解一下那也在座的各位也要特別的注意一下就是一個很重要的原因在氣候變遷下最先衝擊的族群任何國家的政府其實都很清楚的就是"},{"start":9858.215,"end":9884.905,"text":"大自然環境最密切的族群其實就是原住民族我們因為在這個環境迫害之下整個原住民族的生存權、發展權甚至這個土地自然資源的權利都是被嚴重傷害的所以這個部分特別在這邊提出來讓署長瞭解因為"},{"start":9886.092,"end":9908.795,"text":"您坐在一個非常重要的位置就是氣候變遷署你是署長所以這一點我希望從現在開始可以特別注意因為未來這個部分到時候我想時間再久一點你會更清楚知道原住民在這整個氣候變遷的一個扮演的角色"},{"start":9909.355,"end":9910.016,"text":"主要主要主要主要主要"},{"start":9917.965,"end":9940.741,"text":"在這個1992年的巴西里約召開的這個里約環境跟發展宣言宣言的部分全部27項有規範各國政府環境權利與責任的基本原則其中的第22項揭示了原住民族的傳統習慣與智慧在環境的永續發展上扮演關鍵的角色因此在各國的政府"},{"start":9941.161,"end":9956.11,"text":"都是要肯定並且支持援助民族參與氣候變遷衝擊一下環境的保護、管理跟監測我想這個概念很重要那身為氣候變遷署的署長要請您特別了解"},{"start":9958.491,"end":9972.102,"text":"這個概念所以我接下來我要請問署長在未來在您帶領的這個氣候變遷署各項措施的計劃是不是應該根據地球憲章的基本原則"},{"start":9972.982,"end":10000.123,"text":"鼓勵並支持援助民族運用我們的智慧與生活習慣來協助你們落實淨零排碳的工作請問署長你支不支持這樣子的一個方向是 完全支持好 謝謝署長那我接下來要請教就是說那我可不可以請署長你們的這個氣候變遷署可以進一步的加以規劃那針對我剛剛提的這些加以規劃可以嗎"},{"start":10000.803,"end":10010.911,"text":"是跟委員報告其實在今年立法院三讀通過氣候變遷因應法也很清楚的把原住民就是我們在擬定氣候變遷各項政策的時候必須要將原住民的相關的跟氣候變遷不管是在減緩跟調適都要納入好那所以你們開始規劃了嗎我們現在在進行的包括就是國家氣候變遷行動綱領"},{"start":10024.762,"end":10040.196,"text":"還有接下來再進行調試計畫都會進行都會納入對都會納入那請問就是你有很你有很認真的把這個原住民族的這個部分你怎麼樣已經加入了這樣子的規劃了嗎"},{"start":10042.237,"end":10064.046,"text":"這個會隨著每一項計畫在實施就是規劃跟提出的期程的時候那我們會開始跟包括跟原住民主管機關還有相關的團體那包括這個最重要就是我們立法院各相關的委員這邊我們都會開始來進行討論因為我也沒有接到你們任何的邀約啦所以看起來是還沒有開始"},{"start":10066.076,"end":10091.358,"text":"對 就跟委託沒有關係那我剛剛講這個規劃你需要多少時間來規劃我們現在因為正在規劃是下一期的國家氣候變遷的就是階段管制目標還有這個行政計畫這個部分我們會把它納入那另外的話就是在進行這個氣候變遷調適的相關的作業這個是明年會開始啟動那這部分我們也會進行"},{"start":10092.299,"end":10108.833,"text":"明年開始啟動那等一下那所以我再問你你還是沒有回答我問題你需要多少時間來規劃好原住民相關的這個特別是原住民相關的這個部分你需要多少時間規劃那跟我們報告我們在至少三個月內我們先就這些計劃跟擬定的時候那需要進行跟這個溝通的一些原則我們先請問你這三個月要跟誰溝通我們先跟這個先你把我們先盤點"},{"start":10121.263,"end":10123.666,"text":"依照《氣候變遷因應法》需要進行推動我剛剛說明的"},{"start":10126.011,"end":10149.016,"text":"這些方案、計劃或者是措施先做一個盤點然後接下來就是需要跟原住民相關團體的這個進行跟進行方式我們來進行討論那剛剛你有特別點名到就是要跟各位原住民的這個立法委員來溝通那我也想要請教你是要跟這一屆的立委溝通還是跟下一屆的原住民立委溝通我跟委員報告我們現在是三個月我們先進行要先盤點有哪一些事項"},{"start":10154.662,"end":10180.951,"text":"有一些方案措施那需要來提的我們先三個月內先盤點出來那接下來才進一步去提說需要溝通的對象那所以所以你後面才要盤點溝通的對象所以你又說你要先跟原住民的立法委員溝通我真的是有點聽不太懂就是說你的意思是其實剩下這個時間你也沒有要跟我們溝通的意思"},{"start":10181.773,"end":10205.92,"text":"我想這個都是持續都會再溝通那我們現在因為剛剛委員關心我們氣候法裡面因為會包括的就是減緩跟調適的這些方案跟計劃那我們先盤點出來有哪一些到底現在接下來有哪一些所以你說三個月就是很明顯其實這一屆的原住民立委你是根本不需要溝通的其實跟委員報告因為我們的任期就到1月"},{"start":10208.201,"end":10226.684,"text":"還沒有你的三個月我們裡面的成員可能不一定是一樣但是我很清楚告訴你我會繼續在這邊其實我們在這段期間內也是一直有跟委員包括我們在進行氣候法的修法當時的在訂定的時候也都持續有在做溝通"},{"start":10228.171,"end":10252.246,"text":"我是沒有太強烈的感覺就是因為我很擔心你溝通的對象不對了啦好那至少我剛剛點出了原住民的這一塊看起來署長從第一個回答並沒有很有概念所以我在這邊我鼓勵你好好去研究一下好那再不然"},{"start":10253.342,"end":10281.826,"text":"我們即便現在在忙選舉但是我想我們的任期在這邊這個做一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛辦公室還是都有在運作啊是我們會積極的對啊你總不會等說要確認我在個我們1月13號確定我有選上之後才要趕快來溝通才要開始慢慢規劃吧是跟我們這段期間其實一直都有跟各個委員在做溝通是有嗎"},{"start":10284.244,"end":10307.116,"text":"我們辦公室有嗎這個我們會改善有嗎對啊你不要亂講話啊就是各個委員我們辦公室就是沒有所以我今天特別提出來所以要請署長特別注意嘛對啊那你要三個月我很擔心啊那你如果要溝通其實你從現在就可以常常來溝通啊我八台都開著是謝謝"},{"start":10307.996,"end":10329.429,"text":"對啊所以我最後再請教一下世界銀行去年指出全球已經有68個國家或區域區域已經有這個碳定價了那今年會有多少國家有定價這個都是要依照那個世界銀行跟各國去做的這個趨勢那在今年初的報告是73個國家或地區"},{"start":10331.107,"end":10353.037,"text":"今年會有73個國家跟地區我想是這樣我們台灣的這個碳交易平台的相關法則不知道現在是進度怎麼樣那是不是有如你們的預期那我比較好奇的就是說你什麼時候來完成訂定這樣子"},{"start":10354.418,"end":10368.708,"text":"我們現在的時程是預計就是在最近會先把這個碳費徵收的相關的規劃來做一個預告那明年的話明年1月會開始就是針對費率的部分會進行這個由費率審議會來做討論"},{"start":10372.079,"end":10396.726,"text":"那所以什麼時候完成?你有預估的時間嗎?我們現在很清楚就是明年的碳排放都會被計到這個碳費徵收的範圍也就是說明年開始這個碳費徵收就會上路那你打算一段大概訂多少錢?這個要由明年的碳費的費率審議會來做討論跟決定好所以那個我剛剛前面問的就是說你預估何時完成訂定目前你們是?"},{"start":10397.762,"end":10423.282,"text":"沒有確確預期的時間會在明年的第一季把包括這是碳費的徵收辦法還有費率審議會這個這個費率的部分來做明年第一季大概就會做確定好那這樣子我我只是提醒吼我們這個各國的經驗其實看起來應該都是越早實施好那整個挑戰就會越小所以我在這邊特別提醒署長好謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":10431.567,"end":10438.575,"text":"謝謝本日會議詢答全部結束委員王婉玉、賴會員楊耀會題書面質詢列入記錄還有一位莊敬成委員書面質詢列入記錄"},{"start":10447.503,"end":10475.097,"text":"刊登公報現在做以下決議報告以及詢答完畢委員質詢未答覆或是補充資料者請相關機構於兩週內以書面答覆委員另有邀期限者從其鎖定本次會議議事錄授權由主席核定後確定本次會議到此結束散會"},{"start":10477.892,"end":10478.073,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10511.798,"end":10527.8,"text":"國際社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆全體委員會第12屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會第13屆聯合國氣候變遷大會及財團法人國際合作發"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}