{"error":false,"id":["153553"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153553,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153553","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T09:35:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T09:48:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98fb551dbbaba40bc684a12a82c262ca1068f95e3d087843c28c2082ecc2dcd8fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"09:35:58 - 09:48:20","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":179,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（9時36分）謝謝主席，我請邱部長，還有石崇良署長。"],["主席：請邱部長，還有石署長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，我今天要問你的三個問題都很尖銳，你要好好回答。開始第一個問題，這個是林邊光電場開工典禮，被起訴的人叫做什麼名字？古盛煇，他是力暘科技的總裁，涉嫌向能源署、臺南市政府經發局等賄賂，不當利益91億，他是掛你的辦公室副主任，有這件事嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：向委員報告，我那時候是接徐國勇委員要成立一個民進黨服務的地方，這些人都是原來制度內的人。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你跟光電業者有沒有掛勾很深？"],["邱部長泰源：完全沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：你不分區立委當了8年，是有關醫療、醫師的，怎麼會去跟這些能源業者……"],["邱部長泰源：他這個……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個是人家跟我檢舉的，所以我不得不問。"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，他在那邊當一、兩年以後就離開了，然後到……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個4月才偵查終結，4月26號。"],["邱部長泰源：對，但是這張照片應該是很多年前的，那個時候他早就已經離開我們在新竹縣的團隊，已經到臺南工作，我們也從來沒有過任何聯絡。"],["蘇委員清泉：我是覺得你要小心，人家隨便掛你的主任、副主任，你要小心一點。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：不要這樣子，否則怎麼死的都不知道，搞不好哪一天你也會被傳訊，這第一個問題。第二個問題，你在上任第二天或第三天開了一個記者會，記者會後很多人對你有很負面的說法，因為你急著要去WHA，所以人家問你的問題，包括點值問題、癌症基金問題、缺藥、砍人的社會安全網等，你的回答都是空空泛泛，問東答西，或是把麥克風交給林靜儀次長。剛剛陳昭姿就對林靜儀次長非常不爽，因為他「烏白寫」。他在當區域立委的時候，亂罵、亂寫我可以接受，因為他是選區選出來的區域立委，有選民壓力，也有接觸到基層，但是對他回答的問題你要勇敢面對喔！部長，我覺得你還沒有準備好，問題太多了，你都不了解，所以你要加強，不能這樣空泛回答，這樣給人家的感覺很不好。再來，社福團體對你的評價也不高，所以你要當部長，他們公開反對，我也替你捏把冷汗，我是覺得這些你都要好好來補強，我對你是很尊重啦，所以……"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝指教，謝謝指教。"],["蘇委員清泉：再來就是你一天到晚說韌性、韌性，醫療要有韌性，但護士跑光光，急診室一大堆人在等病床，連屏東都這樣；一間藥廠的藥水出問題，就整個崩盤，食藥署不是應該趕快輔導他們改善嗎？一個永豐藥廠點滴出問題，但他們占的量又多，結果讓石崇良在那邊擦屁股擦不完，又要緊急進口等等，哪有什麼韌性？你要讓大家有策略性的剩餘嘛！部長，要有策略性剩餘，口袋存一些錢，才有辦法有韌性啦！三餐都吃不飽，哪還有韌性？餓都餓死了！你看連生理食鹽水、血液透析液、手術房要沖洗的都沒有！永豐跟我沒有親戚關係，沒有五等親，什麼都沒有，永豐現在要怎麼處理？你們是改善它的……"],["吳署長秀梅：報告委員，永豐藥廠因為很多缺失都還沒有改善，所以沒有辦法讓它復工。"],["蘇委員清泉：其他5家做的點滴、藥水補不過來，因為他們的量……"],["吳署長秀梅：對，因為他們的生產線不夠，所以這些藥廠目前是以加班方式生產，希望能補的就儘量補，如果再不夠，有一些包括注射用的生理食鹽水等，在短時間之內可能需要輸入。"],["蘇委員清泉：從日本進來？"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：從大塚等進來，是不是？"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：千頭萬緒，部長真的很難幹！單單那個食安問題就搞得暈頭轉向，我說你運氣還蠻不錯的，這件事薛瑞元做一個段落再交給你……"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝……"],["蘇委員清泉：下個禮拜健保法就要協商，你再沒有提出好的配套，我們一定強行表決，我們一定強行表決，就像昨天原住民禁伐補償條例，6萬塊就表決過了啊！柯總召說違憲，違什麼憲啊！那個跟違憲有什麼關係？胡說八道！大家都聽不下去，所以我跟你說，表決過了你就要扛下去，所以要好好想配套。下個禮拜就13號了，我記得是13號，所以你要好好想看看，這個其實不難啦！大家也提了好幾個意見，譬如補充保費拉高；不要讓百姓的負擔增加，這是林靜儀講的，我給他拍拍手，給他按讚；其他政府投資的要增加，那就補起來了，我覺得不難。石崇良署長，補充保費你這樣弄下去，我看可能會有一千多億喔！"],["石署長崇良：沒那麼多啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：你的費率提高，2.2提高，上面拉高一些，然後從1,000萬變成5,000萬，劫富濟貧沒有人會講話啦！那個應該可以拉高很多，所以要用心把它解決，不是擺爛，部長，這是千頭萬緒，你自己要注意一點，不要到時候被人家揍！"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：再來，我認為你這8年來在當不分區立委，也在全聯會當了2屆，我當1屆啦！我看你對基層診所的照顧非常好，但是你跟大中小型醫院沒什麼互動，跟弱勢團體也沒什麼互動，所以我們臺灣到處吹噓說多厲害、多厲害，都是建立在血汗、爆肝、過勞、霸凌，這個是很嚴重的問題，看要怎麼解決。","再來最後一個問題，這次去WHA、去日內瓦，我跟你報告，因為那時候我去，你沒有去，我在第8屆立委的時候，馬英九的時代，我去了3次，都進到萬國宮開會，那個時候邦交國有22個，現在剩下11個，加上1個教廷共12個，但是教廷不管政治的事情。這8年我們去那邊還去做國會外交，跟現在差不多，我給它詳細的review一下，8年來都是去那邊開一些symposium，在飯店裡面，我們當時還跟22個邦交國的衛生部長演講，還有台聯的也演講等等，我覺得效果還不錯。我們當初進去的名字是用APEC的名稱，還有奧林匹克的名稱，叫做Chinese Taipei，回來就被罵賣國、賣臺、臺奸，什麼都被罵。邱文達跟你一樣姓邱，邱文達也被罵，葉金川也被罵，現在你用同樣的名字也進不去，不然這8年是在做什麼？做什麼？明年會更差嗎？所以這是比較現實的問題，你要怎麼調整、怎麼拼，是不是要轉個方向去做，還是轉個方向去努力？不然去那邊硬碰。我當時還跟邱文達部長拿一封抗議信交給當時香港的衛生署長陳馮富珍，他當幹事長，拿給他，他連看都不看就丟。有一次我在香港碰到陳馮富珍，我就問他：「你怎麼這樣幹，為什麼連抗議信都不拿？」他說：「我挺北京的。」這是他給我的回答，所以有時候要繞個方向，不然我覺得這樣很辛苦啦！這是我們要加強的地方，大家可以互相幫忙、互相努力，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：給我1分鐘好不好？"],["蘇委員清泉：好。"],["邱部長泰源：我感謝蘇委員過去在國外、國內的這些努力，非常的敬佩，我們也一起為醫界在努力，你應該很清楚，全臺灣要找像我這樣跟社福團體這麼親近的醫師，恐怕沒有幾個，所以我的一個新聞不應該毀滅掉我們醫療團體跟社福過去共同以病人為中心的整合性照顧，這是跟蘇委員報告。其他所有的一切我們都要為人民的醫療權利，在國家的財務可以承擔之下，我們一定盡全力來提出配套措施，讓我們醫療院所可以來運作。","我們過去在全聯會做的事情，如果稍微在基層改一個公式，也許基層就得到10億的好處，醫院就可能得到60億的好處，所以我們全聯會是顧所有的醫院跟醫師，沒有放過全臺灣3萬5,000任何一個醫師的權益，以及他工作的醫療院所。"],["蘇委員清泉：五萬多個醫師啦！我們醫師會員有五萬多個。"],["邱部長泰源：對，抱歉，五萬三千多個。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，我要跟部長說的是，衛福部部長因為管徥太多、管得很多，然後到處都會出問題，你要深入的瞭解，要去好好的面對，不要有事沒事就丟給主管單位，這樣是不夠的，好好做，很難做，但是我會支持你。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝蘇委員，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳昭姿","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","王正旭","陳培瑜","盧縣一","廖偉翔","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","劉建國","洪申翰","楊曜","陳瑩","張智倫","陳冠廷"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」\n進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.650343750000001,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.64159375,"end":8.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.215343750000002,"end":10.425968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.071593750000002,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.880968750000001,"end":15.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.52221875,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.57284375,"end":16.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.14659375,"end":20.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.977218750000002,"end":20.550968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.02346875,"end":21.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.05721875,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.63096875,"end":23.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.406593750000003,"end":28.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.00534375,"end":29.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.22034375,"end":32.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.09721875,"end":35.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.76346875,"end":39.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.07534375,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.26909375,"end":42.572843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.344718750000006,"end":48.462218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.51284375,"end":48.563468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.05284375,"end":49.643468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.617843750000006,"end":52.039718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.984718750000006,"end":54.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.790343750000005,"end":55.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.735343750000006,"end":56.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.283468750000004,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.49846875,"end":61.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.43471875,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.953468750000006,"end":65.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.96159375,"end":69.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.99471875,"end":75.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":76.39034375,"end":76.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.13284375,"end":78.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.19159375000001,"end":80.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":80.94659375,"end":87.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":87.86534375000001,"end":92.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.03346875000001,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":94.37909375000001,"end":95.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.49284375,"end":107.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.67721875000001,"end":105.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.47846875,"end":113.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.99221875,"end":116.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.31659375000001,"end":120.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.59909375000001,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":121.53096875000001,"end":130.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.94284375,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.22034375,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.87846875,"end":144.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.78471875,"end":145.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.28659375,"end":147.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.97409375,"end":149.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.82596875000002,"end":157.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.06096875,"end":163.53284375},{"speake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我覺得沒人普通保衛蘇貞昌市長蘇貞昌市長普通保衛我看你這樣摸就可能穿外的有喔"},{"start":430.067,"end":455.316,"text":"沒有那麼多啦沒有那麼多你的匯率提高要提高上面拉高一些然後從一千萬變成五千萬這個會增加從傑富濟貧這個是沒有人會講話啦那個應該可以拉高很多所以要用心把它解決不是擺爛保證這是千頭萬糞喔你自己要小心一點死了又沒辦法再來"},{"start":458.656,"end":474.025,"text":"我是認為你這8年來在當部份區立委還有也當前內會當了兩屆我當一屆啦齁我看你跟基層的診所基層的照顧非常好但是你跟醫院組的大中小型醫院沒什麼互動"},{"start":475.182,"end":499.142,"text":"跟弱勢團體也沒什麼互動所以我們台灣的到處吹噓說多過勞多過勞都是建議在血汗、爆肝、過勞、霸凌所以這個是很嚴重的問題看要怎麼解決再來最後一個問題這次去WHA去日內瓦我跟你報告因為那時候我去你沒有去"},{"start":500.239,"end":521.519,"text":"我在第8屆立委的時候馬英九的時代我去了三次三次那個時候邦交國有22個都進到萬國宮進去開會然後那個時候邦交國22現在剩下11那加上一個教廷教廷所有但是教廷不管政治的事情"},{"start":522.68,"end":535.435,"text":"所以這一次去這8年我們去那邊還去做國外外交跟現在差不多那這8年來我給大家詳細的review一下8年來都是去那邊在飯店裡面我們還當時還跟22個邦交國的衛生部長"},{"start":541.587,"end":564.715,"text":"演講,還有那個臺聯的演講等等我覺得效果還不錯那我們當初進去的名字是用APEC的名稱還有奧林匹克的名稱叫做Chinese Taipei那回來就被罵賣國、賣台、台尖什麼都被罵了邱恩達跟你一樣姓邱邱恩達也被罵"},{"start":566.997,"end":578.696,"text":"那葉金專也被罵那現在你用同樣的名字也進不去我給你背你你寫做啥?不做啥?後面你會更賣賣所以這是個現實的問題你要怎麼來調整?要怎麼來拼?"},{"start":582.418,"end":600.867,"text":"是不是要轉個方向去做還是轉個方向去努力不然現在被硬碰我當時還跟邱文達部長寫拿一封抗議信去交給當時的陳馮富珍就是香港的衛生署長他當幹事長拿給他他連看都不看就丟了"},{"start":602.782,"end":626.549,"text":"有一次我在香港碰到陳鳳富珍我就問他你怎麼這樣幹為什麼連抗議信都不拿他說我聽北京的我聽北京的這是他給我的回答所以有時候要繞個方向阿不然我覺得這樣很辛苦這是我們要加強的地方大家要互相幫忙互相的努力"},{"start":627.93,"end":638.635,"text":"我第一感謝所有人對過去在國外、國內的這些努力,非常的敬佩。我們一起為一世界努力,你應該很清楚。"},{"start":639.639,"end":664.253,"text":"我是前臺灣的醫師要找像我這樣跟社會團體這麼親近的醫師恐怕沒有幾個所以我的一個新聞不應該毀滅到我們醫療團體跟社會過去共同與病人為中心的一個整合性的照顧謝謝首委員報告其他就是說所有的一切"},{"start":664.913,"end":685.522,"text":"在我們愛理人民的醫療權利和國家的財務可以承擔．我們一定盡全力來提出配套措施．讓我們的醫療院所可以來運作．首尾委員報告我們過去的全聯會主要的事情．我們若稍後在基層開一個公司．也許基層就得到．"},{"start":687.082,"end":705.755,"text":"10億的好處醫院就得到可能60億的好處所以我們專聯會過所有的醫院跟醫師沒有放過任何一個全台灣3萬5千個醫師的權益以及他工作的醫療院所5萬多個醫師我們醫師會有5萬多個5萬3千個"},{"start":713.953,"end":714.853,"text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}