{"error":false,"id":["153556"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153556,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153556","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-30","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第30次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":30,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第30次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T09:42:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T09:53:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98610bb90f2a999549e41b4d0ae556a0d968f95e3d087843c26df6a493928834075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:42:56 - 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案。"},{"start":59.318,"end":68.204,"text":"錢防制法第五條之一條文修正草案案 案件也不只是詐欺案件嗎?這答案其實蠻簡單的,不只吧?還是跟我講這個科技偵查法其實只限定辦詐欺案件?"},{"start":68.204,"end":79.171,"text":"不會,就是因為法條有明文規定,可以用那個科技偵查的犯罪,當然有明文的規定。對嘛,你看我已經一分鐘結束了。其實部長你要學學次長,次長回答會比較簡潔一點啦。"},{"start":81.385,"end":104.345,"text":"是不是其他犯罪形態也包含在裡面嗎 對不對我只剩下一個答案一分鐘沒關係部長再想請教你剛剛我看到幾位委員質詢其實不管是國民黨民眾黨還有民進黨其實都是委員提案是要來修刑事訴訟法把科技偵查作為一個專章來處理對不對那請問為什麼我們堅持要一個專法呢"},{"start":107.513,"end":136.242,"text":"這個專法的話因為其實立專法有立法例包括我剛才有提到的就是像通保法我又講現在三黨都有委員提出是刑事訴訟法但也覺得配合刑事訴訟法這是立法選擇問題但是如果說以專法的訴訟法既然是立法選擇問題因為這既然是科技偵查為應時代的一個需要科技的發展如果說以刑事訴訟法的修法的話光日廢時那另外說以修那個專法的一個方式可以及早應用就像我們那個國民法官法也是定專法"},{"start":137.142,"end":159.261,"text":"那個通報法通訊保障委員是定一個專法我倒沒有看出什麼曠日廢死啊幾個黨都已經提出了版本因為像我們這樣只有定十幾條的話我們這就做一個一個審查我想速度會比較快我想這個定專法的話在整個立法當然我跟你講快慢之間有周延性的問題嘛法的體系的所謂的那個一致性的問題嘛專法當然有定專法的好處啊部長我覺得幾個委員幾個政黨委員意見還是參考一下"},{"start":165.126,"end":187.079,"text":"我想請教您下一個問題您瞭解一下您瞭解我們最近通過的這個國會改革法案嗎這有三讀通過有三讀通過我想請教您你知道這個國會如果行使聽證調查它的門檻是什麼第一個程序上需要什麼經過誰決議要發動的話要誰來決議部長要熟悉一下因為你們都要提復議了嘛"},{"start":193.24,"end":221.469,"text":"法務部在扮演提復役的角色當中應該有角色吧。法務部就是我們這個行政院的法律守門人啊。要誰決議啊。在整個在59條之一有這樣要委員會跟調查委員會等來做一個。最後當然程序很多啊。最後一關最重要的就是要院會決議嘛。院會113位立委決議嘛。對不對。然後你也看過我們國會改革在審的過程當中。國會的那個真是焦土戰啊。"},{"start":222.574,"end":237.604,"text":"要通過院會決議一旦如果說大家沒有共識很困難吧對不對就要經過很很大的一個所謂的一個呃溝通過程嘛那我問你要這個聽證調查啟動要院會決議這件事情就要門檻高還是低啊這個實際運作這個還要再觀察那我想請教您吼您知道在聽證的狀況的話如果說59條之五啦吼"},{"start":252.233,"end":280.785,"text":"在有些情況之下出席的人員還可以拒絕正言跟表達意見嘛 對不對對不對包括說涉及國家安全國防外交之國家機密事項與越聽證會調查目的所提出的結論或對質我要講的重點是什麼即便都已經到要院會113位立委決議的這種情況之下你知道我看到很多的外面都講阿民進黨阿或是綠營的朋友講齁"},{"start":283.513,"end":308.46,"text":"說學校老師土豐武社張忠謀還有我們這個各式各樣的所有人民都會被聽證調查你覺得所有人民都會被聽證調查嗎會不會這個要看這個是議題議題個案這個民眾當然嘛兩個第一個嘛一定會有被被這個裡面有規定人民也也有被"},{"start":309.966,"end":328.095,"text":"被人民什麼三大條件嗎?第一個可以拒絕正言嗎?第二個院會決議嗎?第三個立法院職權有關嗎?對不對?法條寫得很清楚啊。大家符合這三項條件所以有門檻嗎?而且是相當高的門檻113位立委決議你跟我講門檻不夠高?部長這個意思嗎?門檻門檻夠不夠高?至少有門檻嗎?法案不是我們法務部的主管的法案我就"},{"start":338.871,"end":365.553,"text":"你們行政院都要提復議了我跟部長講113位立委決議就是個高門檻所謂的土豐五社啊台積電啊還是不管是張忠謀還是說今天是學校老師要過這三個門檻沒那麼容易啦好啦我要問你啦跟我們的科技偵查法有關齁你知道法治局對科技偵查法有意見吧立法院法治局"},{"start":367.708,"end":382.329,"text":"一個意見是什麼請問你照剛剛部長的標準人民還是可能被查啦對不對我想請問你學校老師土豐五十二台積電或者黃仁勳還是館長還是里長有沒有可能被科技偵查"},{"start":385.346,"end":403.971,"text":"黃仁旭會不會被科技偵查?會不會?我們科技偵查是針對個案做壞罪偵查來收集證據。會不會對普遍性人民的這些的資料我們在做收集?你這不是廢話了?國會聽證調查也不會對普遍性人民做這個調查啊?聽證調查還有門檻啊?我要問你是什麼?會不會嗎?有沒有可能性嗎?有沒有可能性嗎?黃仁旭會不會被科技偵查?有沒有可能性嗎?"},{"start":409.471,"end":414.813,"text":"我直接告訴你有為行政院辯護守護的那個一個所謂的政治的一個框架沒有關係我直接告訴你我要問你問題是什麼立法院都還有113位立委的決議才能夠實施聽證調查作為高門檻"},{"start":434.482,"end":450.679,"text":"可是我看法治我講的是法治局意見我是要請您來解釋疑問不等於是反對喔現在設計只要檢察官檢察事務官司法警察司法警察官認為有必要時就可以用科技偵查是不是是不是這一條已經拿掉啦"},{"start":456.857,"end":465.86,"text":"立法院吼那所以你們要新增所謂的不能或難以以其他方法收集或調查證據之要件作為該等科技偵查方案門檻嗎?要鎮定這一項嗎?有要鎮定這一項嗎?"},{"start":472.806,"end":490.275,"text":"這個我們這個必要的吼這個特這個整科技的一個其實他比前天我要你把門檻再跟我講一遍嘛他只要是比照搜索的一個門檻比照搜索的門檻所以包括所謂的我們講的這個所謂的GPS也是一樣沒有這24小時檢察官判斷這個問題拿掉了沒有嗎"},{"start":494.172,"end":495.914,"text":"錢防制法及保障法草案案 案。"},{"start":510.074,"end":536.821,"text":"我只講20小時的必要時來來來沒關係沒關係我來問你今天你的所謂的門檻跟我們現在現行的所謂的那個通訊監察保障的那個通訊監察書的方法一樣嗎這個不一樣不一樣嗎曾以其他方法調查人物效果或以其他方法調查合理顯示為不能達成目的或重大危險之情形因為有這個門檻嗎"},{"start":540.09,"end":560.546,"text":"這個沒有沒有嘛但是因為科技本來就是程度比監聽還低嘛那是你認為科技偵查那我就問你齁今天王逸川政治偵訪齁外面疑慮王逸川政治偵訪人民請問你侵害程度低還是高比起你的科技偵查所以王逸川這個案件北京也在偵辦中這個我知道你又不評論了嘛今天我就問嘛"},{"start":564.656,"end":583.431,"text":"今天GPS也好手機也好定位也好定位黃仁勳立法院法治局認為說這個可能要有更嚴謹的法律安全保障程序我不知道今天怎麼我今天請問你嘛法治局裡面意見我請問我們的法務部怎麼回應你們認得看法是什麼"},{"start":589.326,"end":606.404,"text":"他認為吼,基本上（因為因為我跟委員報告吼,這個短期的本來就是這個短期的他那個干率本來就是程度很低短期程度很低這短期因為短期沒辦法收集到這個短期,如果短期沒有的話我們就直接就就沒關係,待會還要大體討論,還有逐條審查,我們再一一討論,以上好,謝謝羅委員,謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}