{"error":false,"id":["153615"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153615,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153615","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T11:39:32+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T11:50:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98b799b9647fb521bd84a12a82c262ca1011da973c502cee627e470654c3813b7d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:39:32 - 11:50:35","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":640,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時39分）謝謝主席，請邱泰源部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。第十屆的時候，本席跟您都是在中興大樓地下一樓的委員，所以那時候常常在走廊上都會互相碰到面，現在您高升我們衛福部的部長……"],["邱部長泰源：不敢、不敢。"],["洪委員孟楷：剛剛也才風塵僕僕回國，為臺灣、為我們中華民國來努力。想請教，接任衛福部長，你認為現在衛福部有哪些重要的課題必須要面對跟解決？"],["邱部長泰源：我想就是繼續提升我們臺灣醫療的韌性、醫療防疫的韌性，保護我們臺灣全體國人的健康，這是最大的一個目標。這當中當然有各種狀況要來解決，如果從醫療的角度，當然我們希望能夠繼續提升我們的醫療品質；第二個我們能夠保障我們醫療團隊、醫療人員的尊嚴跟專業；第三個能夠讓我們臺灣所有的醫療院所，在各個層級都能夠很順利的運轉，好好的照顧當地的國人。"],["洪委員孟楷：醫療的部分，因為可能也跟您之前是醫師的背景有所相關，那請容本席先再提醒，衛福部不只是醫療，食品安全衛生非常重要，社會安全網非常重要，所以食安、社安也都是國人所關注。","不過既然今天您有提到醫療，本席就先來跟您討論醫療的部分，醫療，健保有可能是一大方向，尤其大家說健保改革的必要性，包括點值以及包括醫療。可是我先請教，近期內有發生國內永豐化學被食藥署稽查，認定違反標準，所以勒令關廠。5月20號那個時候還說，這個是有民間或媒體在操作恐慌，說只是吃緊，點滴沒有缺貨，現在又說要啟動專案進口。永豐化學占了七成的市占率，過去它也不是第一次出包，是不是？食藥署的稽查狀況，它過去幾次出包？幾次違反規定？"],["吳署長秀梅：過去曾經有嚴重違反GMP這樣的紀錄，大概是在104年的時候。"],["洪委員孟楷：104年？"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以2015年到現在，也不算是第一次出包，它算是一個高風險的製造生產廠商，但我們還是讓它變成現在全臺灣市占率七成，現在突然間它關廠了，結果我們就變成有七成的缺口。部長，我先請教一下，重要的民生藥品，甚至它可能會是戰備物資變成寡占市場，你覺得這有沒有不妥的地方？"],["邱部長泰源：從這個事件裡面，我們這幾天其實醫界，還有相關的部門，都認為要重新來思考，就委員所提的戰備這種概念……"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["邱部長泰源：以免有缺藥或缺重要物資的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個市占高達七成的廠商，它過去有出包的經驗，現在被我們食藥署勒令停廠，而且它勒令停廠的狀況其實是數據造假、展延許可的問題，現在突然間變成是廠商把持了我們的民生藥品跟戰略物資。我再請教，這次我們說要專案進口來彌補點滴的缺口，請問預計要花多少錢？"],["石署長崇良：跟委員報告，因為它他分成兩塊，一個是暫時性，就是短期的專案進口，這個費用因為還有貨櫃，船運的成本都會比較高，這邊大概……"],["洪委員孟楷：短期是多短期？"],["石署長崇良：就是到10月間。"],["洪委員孟楷：到10月？"],["石署長崇良：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：預計會花多少錢？"],["石署長崇良：這邊會多支出大概二點多億。"],["洪委員孟楷：二點多億？"],["石署長崇良：對"],["洪委員孟楷：算2.5億，是不是？"],["石署長崇良：差不多。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有評估？"],["石署長崇良：因為要到最後才知道量。"],["洪委員孟楷：那10月之後呢？"],["石署長崇良：另外一部分是在這段期間，也會鼓勵國內的業者增產，因為是臨時增加產能，它的成本也會提高，所以我們也會暫時核價，在本週的共擬會議會通過，這個也會……"],["洪委員孟楷：暫時核價是會提高我們的收購價格？"],["石署長崇良：對，就是健保的核價會提高。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，會提高多少？"],["石署長崇良：目前的預估大概也會在二點多，因為他們產能要出來，才知道那個量有多少，所以還沒有辦法預估最後的影響。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你剛剛講說，也是差不多二點多億是不是？"],["石署長崇良：應該是說，前面那個是FDA已經核准專案進口的量，所以那個量知道、價知道，能夠估出大概二點多億……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們這次二點多億可以進口多少的量？"],["石署長崇良：大概是400萬瓶左右。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，回過頭來，我想這一次的專案有沒有預計會到什麼時候？這個專案要延續到多久？"],["邱部長泰源：專案進口？"],["洪委員孟楷：專案進口也好，或是你剛剛有講到核價的部分，因為其實……"],["邱部長泰源：因為要配合國內的產能，應該要到半年。"],["洪委員孟楷：至少要半年的時間？"],["邱部長泰源：產能才能上來，這之前可能還是要靠專案進口。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，其實這都是盤根錯節的問題，過去你也長期在衛環委員會，所以你也很了解。其實健保藥價的部分，過去大家也一直講有偏低的情況，再加上這一次你說相關的進口價比我們健保支付價其實要提高的比較多，還有我們現在要用比較高的健保費用去跟其他國內廠商購買，未來是不是應該要考慮調整健保的價格？否則的話，廠商現在沒有意願啊！為什麼會變成讓一個廠商可以寡占七成，其實其他廠商也可以做，但是為什麼到最後會變成是這個情況？"],["邱部長泰源：我覺得委員提的這個方向，是應該要研議來改善，這是真的很根本的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為部長您之前的質詢，我也有去調查資料，也看過，這也都是您之前一直很關心的議題，所以我們不希望只是講講，什麼時候我們會落實？因為您剛上任還不到一個月，這要來研究喔！"],["邱部長泰源：因為這是牽涉到整個財務的問題，如果這邊多一點，是不是診察費就會少一點，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：這當然，餅就那麼大嘛！除非我們現在也講說，我們要調漲相關的費用，對不對？不然接下來你一定會面臨到，因為你一開始就開宗明義講醫療的部分，品質的提升以及相關藥物的部分。那就兩塊啊！本席認為現在很重要的一個是藥價的部分，一個是健保點值的部分，等於是一個是人，一個是藥品嘛！就是一個是醫師、護理師等相關人員，一個是藥品。"],["邱部長泰源：都很重要。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那具體的做法是什麼？"],["邱部長泰源：具體的做法當然是……"],["洪委員孟楷：你是不是要找相關的財主單位來開會，還是來做討論，然後真真正正去做？"],["邱部長泰源：當然健保的改革是一個重要的，健保的改革裡面就會牽涉到剛剛您提的那兩個問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那部長要怎麼做？"],["邱部長泰源：健保改革就是要……"],["洪委員孟楷：您上任，我們期待新官上任三把火。"],["邱部長泰源：增加健保的資源嘛！那怎麼樣增加健保資源？可以有短期、中期、長期……"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會提出來一個比較具體可行的辦法？包括健保的改革、財源的增加、健保點值以及藥品，因為現在我們也有委員在提相關的修法。"],["邱部長泰源：我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：健保點值的部分，也是賴清德總統當時競選的承諾。"],["邱部長泰源：我想在短暫的期間，因為馬上有修法的問題，我們就會趕快提出一個短期必須要趕快做的，而這些做的是可以來充實健保的資源，達到讓現在的整個醫界能夠盡量滿意。"],["洪委員孟楷：那部長是不是給我們一個時間表，你什麼時候會把資料給衛環委員會以及給本席一份？"],["邱部長泰源：如果配套措施，應該兩個禮拜之內可以提出來一個方向，尤其是近期的。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席不是只要針對這次永豐事件的配套，因為你們已經在進行了……"],["邱部長泰源：你是說健保改革……"],["洪委員孟楷：有人說這就像超思雞蛋進口的翻版，但我覺得還是有所差別啦！因為畢竟並不是說我們的市場沒有調控好，然後臨時缺生理食鹽水或是說點滴，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：我想兩個問題，我們都提供資料給您，第一個就是我們輸液的計畫是怎麼樣……"],["洪委員孟楷：這個你們已經在進行了。"],["邱部長泰源：然後健保改革的時程，我們也研擬，很快就提給……"],["洪委員孟楷：還有最重要的是，要針對問題去解決，本席要的是說，我們現在都知道問題，但問題要怎麼解決？這個就是承擔嘛！"],["主席：好，洪委員……"],["邱部長泰源：這個會提出解決的策略。"],["洪委員孟楷：兩個禮拜內有辦法提出來？"],["邱部長泰源：應該是可以提出一個策略。"],["主席：洪委員，因為時間的關係……"],["洪委員孟楷：我聽到有委員說部長說話要小心一點，因為你所說的每一句話都是政策，也都是國人的期待。"],["邱部長泰源：是，我們會提出策略。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，本席願意請您兩個禮拜內提出，給衛環委員會也給本席。我們後續還會針對這部分，因為這絕對不是一朝一夕可以討論，但重點是本席希望您回去找相關部會，真的去把問題找出來。過去您是監督者，現在您是主政者，所以一定要把這些問題找出來，然後來解決問題，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們會提出具體的策略來努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝！"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，接下來請林淑芬委員。我作一下宣告：不好意思，現在請林淑芬委員質詢，淑芬委員發言結束，中午就休息30分鐘。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：召委……4分鐘而已……"],["主席：好，我重新宣告：現在請林淑芬委員質詢，楊瓊瓔委員質詢結束，我們休息30分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳昭姿","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","王正旭","陳培瑜","盧縣一","廖偉翔","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","劉建國","洪申翰","楊曜","陳瑩","張智倫","陳冠廷"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」\n進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.865343750000001,"end":8.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.51909375,"end":9.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.345343750000001,"end":14.661593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.99909375,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.822843750000004,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.49721875,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":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整個財務的問題你這邊多一點是不是你的診察會就會少一點是所以這當然餅就那麼大嘛如果說除非我們現在也講說我們要調漲"},{"start":459.355,"end":486.207,"text":"相關的費用 對不對不然接下來你一定面臨到因為你一開始就開宗明義講說醫療的部分品質的提升以及相關的藥物的部分那兩塊啊本期認為說現在很重要一個是藥價的部分一個是健保點子的部分嘛等於是一個是人一個是藥品嘛就是一個是醫師護理師等相關人員那一個是藥品都很重要是那具體的做法是什麼"},{"start":488.67,"end":505.991,"text":"你是不是要找相關的財主單位我們來開會還是說來做討論然後真真正正來去做當然健保的改革是一個重要的健保的改革裡面就會牽涉到剛剛您提的那兩個問題是 那部長要怎麼做"},{"start":508.05,"end":524.038,"text":"你上任,我們期待新官上任上把火什麼時候會提出來一個比較具體可行的辦法包括健保的改革包括財源的增加包括健保點值以及包括藥品"},{"start":524.818,"end":537.433,"text":"因為現在我們也有委員在提相關的修法那健保典值的部分也是賴清德總統那個時候競選的一個承諾我想在短暫的期間必須因為馬上有修法的這個問題我想我們就會趕快提出一個來"},{"start":541.477,"end":565.899,"text":"短期必須要趕快做的而這些做的是可以來充實健保的資源來達到讓現在的整個醫界能夠盡量滿意這樣來部長那是不是給我們一個時間表你什麼時候會把這種資料給衛防委員會以及給本市一份如果配套措施應該兩個禮拜之內是是可以提出來一個方向尤其是近期的"},{"start":567.039,"end":581.888,"text":"您說只是本席不是要只是針對這一次的永豐的事件的一個配套你們已經在進行了嘛有人講說這就像超市雞蛋進口的翻版啊因為我覺得還是有所差別啦"},{"start":583.068,"end":609.74,"text":"因為畢竟並不是說我們的市場沒有調控好然後零時間缺這個我想兩個問題我們都提供資料給你們第一個就是我們的輸液的計畫是怎麼樣這個你們已經在進行了怎麼樣提供給您然後健保的改革的時程我們也很快就提給還有最重要的是要針對問題要去解決啦本席要的是說我們現在都知道問題但問題是怎麼解決"},{"start":613.262,"end":640.781,"text":"這個就是提出解決的問題兩個禮拜內 有辦法提出來應該是可以提出一個策略好不好 侯委員 因為時間的關係我聽到委員說 部長說要比較整理因為對你所說的每一句話都是政策 也都是國人的期待我們會提出策略啦好 部長 本席願意請您兩個禮拜內提出 也給問候委員會給本席"},{"start":641.201,"end":641.682,"text":"謝謝洪孟楷"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}