{"error":false,"id":["153622"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153622,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153622","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T12:06:33+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T12:13:24+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98dc728434382c17a0a6cabf0dc0d1a8b7fc6f3e651eb00659dfcc1bc1b1caef4a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:06:33 - 12:13:24","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":814,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時6分）謝謝主席，我請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：剛才你在回答前面委員的時候有特別提到，為了要迎接AI的大爆發，如果電不夠的時候，你是支持來蓋新的電廠。所謂蓋新的電廠，以現有的政策，我想應該是不……包括核電廠吧？還是說核電廠也會列入考量之一？"],["郭部長智輝：長遠來說，如果核電廠符合我們蓋核電廠的條件，我認為這是不排除的一個選項。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你在講蓋新電廠裡面，其實在你的腦海裡沒有完全排除核電廠？"],["郭部長智輝：我個人是沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：你個人沒有？不過我想你今天講完這句話的時候可能又會有很大的壓力，因為剛才大家都推測，以現在執政黨的基本教義來講，還是不要核電，恐怕就是只有火力發電可以選擇，火力發電的話，那麼新的電廠要蓋在哪裡，我想也會讓你更傷腦筋。所以在你的想法裡面，電不夠就蓋新的電廠，然後這個新電廠的部分，你不排除核電，是嗎？我想再確定一遍。"],["郭部長智輝：不是這個樣子。以目前的狀況來講，目前臺灣的電是夠的，我們只是在擔心未來AI大爆發的時候會突然間增加很多的用電。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為你剛剛講一個新電廠起碼要6年，所以你現在就要規劃嘛，對不對？你不能等到AI大爆發，然後我們電不夠時再來想電廠。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：那個時候就來不及了，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在正是在因應這兩、三天大的變化，我們已經開始在調整自己的腳步了。所以，我們現在在做很多的simulation，就是當這個臺灣的數據中心增加多少、當有一天臺灣導入超級電腦而我們需要非常大的電力的時候，我們目前所規劃的電廠到底是不是能夠因應這些需求？報告委員，我後來講了，說我們最快能夠滿足到2028年的這個規劃……"],["王委員鴻薇：其實也很快就到了，4年就到囉！"],["郭部長智輝：是，所以我們只能用太陽光能，因為太陽光能可以從6年縮短成2年。"],["王委員鴻薇：我瞭解。"],["郭部長智輝：而且它是綠電，完全符合這個需求的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你現在不是蓋新電廠，因為光電是遍地開花啊，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：也不至於遍地開花，我們會找到一個有……"],["王委員鴻薇：我時間有限，因為你今天投出來的應該算是一個很大的變化，願意蓋新的電廠，然後在新的電廠裡面，其實你沒有預設立場，我覺得這是務實的。沒有錯，我們一定要未雨綢繆，我們不能等到說這個產業需要的時候，結果我們供電不及。","另外我想請教，談到這個AI產業，其實現在臺灣非常非常的熱鬧，臺北的AI產業圈非常熱鬧，你應該知道，包含輝達的黃仁勳先生還有超微的蘇姿丰近日都在臺北，我想請問一下，你有見到他們嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有。"],["王委員鴻薇：有見到他們。你很清楚知道輝達因為準備在臺灣再設立第二座研發中心，所以這個部分你有跟他確認？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有？所以現在有所謂他到底要落腳在哪裡的傳聞，變成說你沒有辦法確認？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有辦法確認。"],["王委員鴻薇：那我再用一些時間，再回到這個電力的問題，因為您來自業界，我覺得來自業界最主要的就是你知道企業真正的需求，剛剛講說我們希望發展綠電，但是對於企業界來說，發展綠電也一定要控制成本，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：就您一個CEO的角色來講，綠電的成本一度電多少錢是你認為企業界可以接受的？"],["郭部長智輝：以我所訪談過的業者來講，一度電6塊錢他們可以接受。"],["王委員鴻薇：6塊錢？所以如果超過6塊錢的話，企業界也沒有辦法接受？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：那我想請問一下，這個你可能就要去盤整一下，我們現在的綠電，尤其離岸風電第三期現在面臨了一個狀況，即連我們的公股銀行都不願意進去聯貸，就是因為綠電的價格太高，您剛剛講說6塊錢，可是問題是離岸風電第三期開出了6塊錢，台積電都認為太貴，因為它要大量的去買電，所以現在它的財務報告沒有辦法做出來，現在連我們八大行庫……我不曉得你知不知道，在四月底的時候，包含當時你的前任（王美花部長）、國發會、財政部，全部都拜託八大行庫能夠聯貸給離岸風電三期的業者，可是他們不願意，因為他們覺得財務的風險太高。所以我覺得，當我們在講發展綠電，沒有人不要綠電，但是綠電的成本一定要合理。以您來講的話，你還是高科技業，覺得我買6塊錢，可是對一些傳產業，你覺得他可以支應這6塊錢一度的電嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會另外把綠能的部分做官股官民的一個整合，然後把這個綠能、綠電的部分來賣給這些中小的公司。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以重點就是綠電的部分，我覺得一定要控制成本，而不是那個價格高到……包含台積電都覺得受不了的時候，那個時候我覺得其實臺灣99%的產業都受不了，這一點非常重要。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員，我們一定會讓這個電力、讓所有的用戶有競爭力。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝你。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員，也謝謝郭部長，郭部長請回座。","接下來我們請陳培瑜委員發言。我們台下同仁，現在已經過12點了，如果大家肚子餓的話可以自行用餐沒關係。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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剛才在回答前面委員的答覆的時候你有特別提到為了要迎接AI的這個大爆發所以如果電不夠的時候你是支持來蓋新的電廠蓋新的電廠我想應該是包括核電廠吧因為以現有的政策還是說核電廠也會列入考量之一"},{"start":45.768,"end":54.015,"text":"長遠來說,如果核電廠符合我們蓋電廠,蓋核電廠的條件,我認為這是不排除的一個選項。我個人是沒有。"},{"start":62.25,"end":62.37,"text":"王鴻薇"},{"start":85.856,"end":86.216,"text":"目前臺灣的電是夠的"},{"start":103.151,"end":103.191,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":122.096,"end":143.77,"text":"我們現在正是在因應這兩三天的大的變化我們已經開始在調整自己的腳步了所以我們現在在做很多的simulation就是當這個臺灣的數據中心會增加多少當有一天臺灣導入超級電腦的時候我們需要非常大的電力的時候我們目前所規劃的電廠"},{"start":145.811,"end":146.011,"text":"主席"},{"start":163.683,"end":165.124,"text":"所以你現在蓋的不是蓋新電廠,因為光電是遍地開花啊,對不對?"},{"start":181.104,"end":181.164,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":199.138,"end":199.498,"text":"有見到他們嗎?"},{"start":225.452,"end":225.592,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":246.127,"end":246.327,"text":"王鴻薇議員王鴻薇議員"},{"start":268.184,"end":276.667,"text":"就您一個CEO的角色來講那麼綠電的成本一度電多少錢是你認為企業界可以接受的?"},{"start":283.916,"end":283.956,"text":"李漢峰議員"},{"start":298.996,"end":301.397,"text":"李岸峰店開出了第3期開出了6塊錢臺積電都認為太貴因為他要大量的去買店那所以現在他的財務報告沒有辦法做出來所以現在連我們"},{"start":327.244,"end":329.945,"text":"八大航庫在4月底的時候 包含當時的你的前任王美華部長 國發會還有財政部全部的拜託八大航庫能夠連帶給李岸豐店的三期的業者可是他們不願意 因為他們覺得財務的風險太高"},{"start":346.749,"end":347.609,"text":"我們會在另外把綠能的部分做一個"},{"start":372.073,"end":372.513,"text":"所以重點就是"},{"start":385.208,"end":385.348,"text":"王鴻薇"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}