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審查及療效評估的基準以供國內疫苗業者有所依循並且積極輔導其符合規範以確保專案核准之疫苗符合品質、安全還有療效的要求"},{"start":2476.365,"end":2505.743,"text":"前述基準當中規範COVID-19疫苗要取得EUA安全性部分必須要提供疫苗受試者至少達3000人以上的安全性資料此與國際法規單位審查要求是相當一致而療效部分則採用免疫橋接方式來作為審查國內疫苗通過EUA的療效基準亦即國內疫苗臨床所得的綜合抗體效價"},{"start":2506.533,"end":2536.091,"text":"必須要證明不劣於AZ疫苗才能夠取得EUA國際間對於以免疫橋接方式作為取得疫苗緊急使用授權的方式包括了向世界衛生組織在110年5月26日與各國討論以免疫橋接來評估COVID-19疫苗療效的可行性在會議中歐盟、韓國、英國皆表示支持這樣的一個概念"},{"start":2536.738,"end":2559.244,"text":"英國的MHRA和歐盟的EMA也分別在111年的4月14日和111年的6月23日核准了VanEva公司COVID-19疫苗其所採用的療效指標亦為VanEva疫苗和AZ疫苗的綜合抗體免疫橋接評估指標"},{"start":2561.427,"end":2585.559,"text":"韓國的MFDS在111年的6月29日核准SK Bioscience公司COVID-19疫苗GBP510其採用依據意為執行與AZ疫苗免疫原性比較之第三期臨床試驗結果高端公司依據COVID-19疫苗在"},{"start":2586.464,"end":2602.6,"text":"臺灣取得EUA應具備資技術性資料要求檢據了化學製造的管制、動物試驗及臨床試驗者資料在安全性部分根據大署重複劑量毒性試驗及大署生殖與發育毒性試驗"},{"start":2604.355,"end":2632.701,"text":"所獲得之會臨床資料顯示高端新冠肺炎疫苗對於人體並無特殊危害而第一期臨床試驗結果以5個microgram 15個microgram跟25個microgram的劑量分為3組各組15人總計45名20至49歲的健康人顯示安全性的事件發生率在各劑量組都相當大部分"},{"start":2633.203,"end":2660.081,"text":"不良事件都是輕度、中高劑量皆具有耐受性在擴大臨床第二期臨床試驗結果以3295名20歲以上的碩士者來接受至少一劑的15μg高端新冠肺炎疫苗及549名碩士者接受安慰劑之試驗結果不良反應主要為頭痛、頭暈、倦怠、腹瀉、嘔吐"},{"start":2661.84,"end":2685.706,"text":"肌肉痛注射部位疼痛放紅等無重大的安全疑慮在臨床試驗療效分析的結果顯示高端疫苗組和外部對照疫苗組AZ疫苗的原型株活病毒綜合抗體幾何平均效價比值GMTR的95%信賴區間下限為3.4倍大於基準要求的0.67倍"},{"start":2691.82,"end":2720.355,"text":"高端疫苗組的血清反應比例的95%比信賴區間下限為95.5%也大於基準要求的50%經過了衛福部食藥署在110年7月18日召開專家會議審查高端新冠肺炎疫苗專案製造申請案高端公司所提交的疫苗技術性資料及其療效和安全性的數據結果"},{"start":2721.414,"end":2750.422,"text":"已經符合了新冠疫苗專案製造及輸入技術性資料審查基準的要求經過投票表決建議同意依據藥事法第48條之二有條件通過專案製造另要求與專案核准期間需每月提供安全性的監測報告並與核准後一年內檢送疫苗保護效益的報告高端公司"},{"start":2751.623,"end":2769.879,"text":"後續已與巴拉圭執行第三期臨床試驗試驗結果顯示免疫原性由於AZ疫苗與臺灣執行之擴大臨床二期免疫橋接試驗之結論相似因此高端新冠肺炎疫苗已經在"},{"start":2771.775,"end":2786.822,"text":"111年的2月14日取得了巴拉圭緊急使用授權EUA另外也在泰國執行小型的第三期臨床試驗其免疫原性結果亦與前述相同此外"},{"start":2787.369,"end":2808.097,"text":"高端新冠肺炎疫苗在110年的10月27日獲選進入世界衛生組織的團結試驗在哥倫比亞馬利共和國和菲律賓執行第三期的臨床試驗高端公司在111年7月27日檢送疫苗保護的效益報告經過了專家會議的審查建議補充針對"},{"start":2812.998,"end":2840.941,"text":"年長者重症死亡保護力的資訊高端公司已經在10月28日完成補件經過衛福部食藥署111年11月3日召開在此專家會議審議中整高端疫苗保護效益報告及真實世界接種結果實證資料一致決議認同高端新冠肺炎疫苗符合疫苗保護效益"},{"start":2842.257,"end":2869.079,"text":"參考分析18到64歲國人接種各廠牌之疫苗組合之中重症及死亡情形顯示接種高端疫苗的國人相較於接種AZ、BNT、莫德納疫苗及其他分打的組合其對於預防中重症死亡的保護效益相近另外65歲以上的年長者族群亦可觀察到相同的保護效益結果"},{"start":2870.003,"end":2874.904,"text":"基於上述資料可以佐證高端疫苗具有保護效益"},{"start":2876.421,"end":2903.824,"text":"國際上越來越多的疫苗以免疫橋接的方式取得EUA英國的MHRA及歐盟的EMA已分別在111年的4月14日及111年的6月23日核准VanEva公司COVID-19疫苗其所採用之療效評估標準意為VanEva疫苗與AZ疫苗之綜合抗體免疫橋接評估指標"},{"start":2904.554,"end":2932.502,"text":"而韓國的MFDS也在111年的6月29日合準了SK Bioscience公司COVID-19疫苗其所採用依據也是執行與AZ疫苗原性比較之第三期試驗結果疫苗採購過程簡單說明如下COVID-19疫情流行之初為了要取得安全有效的疫苗政府採取了多元外購及國內研發雙軌並行"},{"start":2935.004,"end":2956.763,"text":"衛福部疾管署在109年7月23日公告辦理補助COVID-19疫苗計劃公開徵求廠商來執行疫苗研發並且完成臨床試驗第一期跟第二期的試驗計劃共有4家廠商來申請經過審查的結果4家業者都符合"},{"start":2957.888,"end":2983.066,"text":"補助的資格其中安特羅公司因為置評無法在計劃期程內完成補助條件所以放棄簽約在上述計劃補助國光公司執行到第一期臨床試驗高端公司及聯亞公司執行到第二期的臨床實驗都得到了政府相關的補助的經費"},{"start":2983.973,"end":3003.583,"text":"疫苗採購規劃是以涵蓋我國人口的65%為規劃以每人接種兩劑估計需要有3000萬劑的疫苗以國際投資進行競洽廠商購買及國內自製等多元方式來同時進行疫苗的採購"},{"start":3005.066,"end":3033.032,"text":"由於110年完成採購COVAX、AZ和莫德納疫苗約2000萬劑需要再採購1000萬劑當時部分國際疫苗廠出現了供候遲延的問題截止110年5月貴府部僅取得了約87萬劑的進口AZ疫苗採購國產疫苗更可確實掌握疫苗供候的進度又因為全球疫苗生產"},{"start":3034.431,"end":3061.738,"text":"的原物料短缺為了要避免因等待疫苗研發程序完成藉此無法獲得原物料而喪失及時生產疫苗的時機基於保障國人在最佳利益前提下故比照採購國際疫苗之預購模式向已進入第二臨床試驗期的國內廠商來採購COVID-19的疫苗以預先保有"},{"start":3062.833,"end":3084.603,"text":"所需的疫苗數量110年的2月至5月疾管署跟高端公司進行了採購合約條約檢視及協商及要求廠商使用工程會採購契約的範本110年的3月10日疾管署召開了國內COVID-19疫苗採購討論會邀請廠商討論採購契約帶協商事項並且要求廠商提供"},{"start":3089.864,"end":3119.273,"text":"成本分析等評估資料高端公司在110年的3月11日提供COVID-19疫苗及成本結構說明110年的4月15日由衛福部部長召開國內COVID-19疫苗採購討論會討論付款條件及疫苗是否符合國際標準決議以共同承擔風險概念及達成各里程碑作為付款條件第一期非無條件給予廠商"},{"start":3120.34,"end":3145.237,"text":"倘因規則與廠商製疫苗開發失敗﹑款項應與追回110年5月17日召開行政院COVID-19疫苗採購工作小組第5次的會議會議討論案研議採購高端疫苗生物製劑股份有限公司及聯亞生技股份有限公司COVID-19疫苗案決議依據政府採購法第105條第一項第二款來辦理"},{"start":3148.983,"end":3175.202,"text":"緊急採購向高端公司及聯亞公司預採購各500萬劑的COVID-19疫苗110年5月25日簽報行政院核定5月27日衛福部緊急採購簽准疾管署在5月28日洽購高端公司及聯亞公司預約完成契約簽訂高端疫苗簽約後禮約情形是這樣的"},{"start":3175.982,"end":3188.293,"text":"食藥署在110年的7月30日核發高端疫苗專案製造EUA核准函高端公司在110年的7月30日到111年的3月24日陸續抱怨交貨總計到貨500萬劑疫苗部分交貨延遲罰款疾管署皆依採購契約來辦理除疫區部分計劃每日違約金令"},{"start":3203.155,"end":3228.781,"text":"廠商預期30日以上仍未能予約之罰款為了簡化行政程序已併於111年的3月24日最末次驗收完成時依契約來規定計劃政府無法立即公開疫苗採購合約內容的原因在於每款COVID-19疫苗的採購合約當中均有附帶的保密條款其中"},{"start":3229.724,"end":3243.713,"text":"高端保密期限為5年另外像BNT、莫德納、AZ、NOVAVAX等外國的疫苗的採購合約也都附有保密的條款保密期甚至更長然而考量"},{"start":3245.429,"end":3270.422,"text":"採購公文重要性及後續參考所需要嚴謹的以最長公文保存年限30年定制意即此公文檔案必須保存30年後使得消費而不是外間所傳的封存30年事實上COVID-19疫苗完整合約不公開並非針對臺灣而是全世界各國皆然"},{"start":3273.26,"end":3290.358,"text":"採購契約有保密條款政府是簽約的一方必須要依照合約來辦理也正與簽約方來溝通建議可以提前公布如同其他契約關係若未經立約雙方同意片面為"},{"start":3291.629,"end":3317.724,"text":"違約公開保密資訊不僅會面臨訴訟賠款而且還將嚴重損害臺灣政府的誠信衝擊國外疫苗大廠未來出售的意願進而影響到未來疫苗藥品相關的採購最終導致國人權益的受損這兩年來有關高端COVID-19疫苗一共63件告發案經過檢察官調查"},{"start":3319.844,"end":3342.428,"text":"均查無不法犯罪情勢．述牽結COVID-19疫苗真實世界的保護力的資料部分為了要評估我國自110年3月起實施的COVID-19疫苗接種政策的成效並作為疫苗政策調整之參考疾管署在111年我國首度爆發Omicron大規模的"},{"start":3343.211,"end":3370.465,"text":"社區流行之後針對我全人口之COVID-19疫苗接種資料與去識別化後以國際通用的大數據的統計分析進行我國真實世界疫苗保護之效益比較研究結果顯示除以在美國的國際抗病毒協會在西雅圖舉辦的環轉路病毒及世紀性感染國際研討會進行協助發表會"},{"start":3372.765,"end":3402.078,"text":"最近也經過國際頂尖的傳染病體和Emerging Infectious Diseases來通知接受刊登上述真實世界分析的結果證實了接種3劑疫苗的中重症及死亡的保護效益較未接種或僅接種1、2劑者為高此外也發現mRNA疫苗包括了BNT跟莫德納以及蛋白質次單元疫苗高端的保護效率"},{"start":3402.509,"end":3431.898,"text":"多較腺病毒載體AZ疫苗具有保護效益並且免疫效力持續時間較長研究結果也發現在全人口資料當中BNT與高端疫苗在預防中重症的保護效益皆達到9成以上也是國際上所度於真實世界的大數據來比較mRNA蛋白質次單元以及腺病毒載體疫苗進行比較"},{"start":3433.011,"end":3446.216,"text":"證實了 mRNA與蛋白質次單元疫苗對Omicron的重症跟死亡是具有保護的效益在COVID-19疫情期間政府推動了各項防疫的措施包括採購COVID-19"},{"start":3447.148,"end":3470.216,"text":"疫苗與審查都是秉持著專業還有以全民健康福祉為優先合約沒有不可告人之事一切都依照相關法規跟國際商業慣例來嚴謹地進行依法行政絕無涉炒股或其他不法民意橋接是國際EUA核准的標準符合科學指引高端疫苗亦經過科學證實"},{"start":3471.786,"end":3472.026,"text":"謝謝陳院長的報告"},{"start":3499.492,"end":3507.319,"text":"現在進行質詢每位委員尋答時間不得逾15分鐘輪到質詢委員如果不在場視為棄權請邱委員現次質詢"},{"start":3540.495,"end":3540.837,"text":"謝謝院長 那我請陳院長陳院長請"},{"start":3551.047,"end":3579.359,"text":"院長早 院長剛剛聽您的報告其中有一段針對這個高端疫苗的合約公開的部分那你有提到說事實上COVID-19疫苗完整合約不公開並非針對台灣而是全球各國接染然後還說包括BNT、莫德納、AZ、Nomavis都有設這個保密條款那因為這個保密條款所以沒辦法公開"},{"start":3580.279,"end":3591.06,"text":"那我想給你看一下 院長 這個左上角這個有四個國家的語言 然後有一個國徽那院長你知道這是哪個國家"},{"start":3593.649,"end":3620.669,"text":"瑞士因為院長是公會專家應該非常清楚那這個就是瑞士把他所有的採購疫苗的合約像這個例子這個是莫德納通通都放在這一個網站上一目了然一點下去就看到那不只是瑞士啊院長你其實非常清楚"},{"start":3622.352,"end":3646.35,"text":"像歐盟採購的這個疫苗的合約哪怕是哪個廠牌的全部也都公開在網路上那包括像說有的是說這個連MOU然後呢這一個不只是一份合約從MOU到正式簽約到後來有可能他還會這個修正"},{"start":3647.831,"end":3676.995,"text":"那乃至於說你這個介紹像AZ2.9O也放在這個上面所以我說這整個疫苗採購的流程的法律文件啊院長這絕對不是像你們在第8頁寫這樣嘛感覺好像是說全世界都沒有公開這個採購疫苗現在是一個網路的時代全球化的時代全世界的國家當然"},{"start":3678.018,"end":3686.674,"text":"大部份的國家有可能沒有公開但是像瑞士 像歐盟大部份國家沒有公開 你講對齁不是啊 院長"},{"start":3688.217,"end":3688.277,"text":"從頭到尾"},{"start":3710.457,"end":3728.025,"text":"從簽約MOU到這個後面修正文件乃至契約都是大方方方公開那到底我真的必須要問到底有什麼理由說我們的政府做不到那到現在高端疫苗採購的合約為什麼我們到現在還看不到 院長"},{"start":3728.817,"end":3728.997,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":3755.087,"end":3755.387,"text":"高端的價格"},{"start":3776.275,"end":3794.982,"text":"早就已經講出來了嘛這是高端自己講出來的那所以其他的契約的必要支點有哪一些是要保密的好啦 如果你認為說要保密的你可以去做一些處理嘛比如說你在這個地方的時候你在這邊故意寫說完整合約不公開"},{"start":3795.862,"end":3796.683,"text":"賴清德副總統已經講得非常清楚了"},{"start":3825.623,"end":3830.687,"text":"人民有知的權利應該要公開高端疫苗合約"},{"start":3846.889,"end":3847.59,"text":"因為在這個保密協定的"},{"start":3869.486,"end":3886.649,"text":"這一個條款規範之下我們如果要公開需要得到雙方的同意那我們也主張政府應該要公開但是這個公開需要雙方的合意所以我們政府也努力來跟高端公司"},{"start":3887.069,"end":3887.749,"text":"高端合約到底何時會公開?"},{"start":3910.967,"end":3935.756,"text":"董事會怎麼做要開來確定那最重要的一件事情我想可能委員你也很清楚在雙方如果能夠達到協議的情況下我們當然是希望他們越早公開越好你可以去比較看看其他的國家放在網站上面這麼清楚的事情大部分的只有少數的國家這樣做那他有開董事會嗎"},{"start":3938.918,"end":3964.557,"text":"有嗎?你們有去看嗎?所以沒辦法,也沒辦法有一個時間點嘛今天院長的答覆就是說,也沒辦法有一個時間點這個需要雙方得到同意那如果不同意的話,不就永遠都不公開?如果有這樣的一個情況發生的時候那我們當然就需要再考慮說他不公開的時候"},{"start":3966.127,"end":3984.461,"text":"那你要怎麼辦對 在這個情況這個很重要的在你剛才講的說相關的部分要遮蔽等等這個在大院的調閱小組調查的時候我們就有這樣的一個資訊公開而且大院已經開過20幾次的會議也都看過這個資料了你就是"},{"start":3988.504,"end":3990.045,"text":"我剛才已經講過如果我們今天因為這樣而毀掉了政府的誠信"},{"start":4017.352,"end":4017.632,"text":"講聽不下去餒"},{"start":4035.799,"end":4039.1,"text":"這個當然是我們都是按照依法來辦理"},{"start":4063.53,"end":4079.826,"text":"依法來辦理的話依照政府採購法105條第一項第二款然後以及說這個後面的這個相關的細則的規定的話基本上應該是要有一個決標的公告那"},{"start":4081.068,"end":4082.21,"text":"但是院長即便是緊急採購還是要做絕標公告"},{"start":4096.495,"end":4122.471,"text":"你要有一個決標公告說你給這個廠商嘛然後這個決標公告上面會有很多的資訊那這個資訊包括上面現在大家所爭議的就是說很多契約上面的內容我們有決標公告啦沒有因為你沒有這個決標公告我很明確跟你講因為你沒有這個決標公告所以現在問題來了我們有決標公告你有決標公告是你有做 你確定嗎"},{"start":4123.47,"end":4139.456,"text":"是 我確定有絕標公告好 沒關係 這個會後我們再來再確認所以你這樣講的就不對啦你就說假消息啊非常清楚你就用假消息來打擊政府啊不是假消息啦 院長有絕標公告但是我們遮蔽了價格我想齁 不要"},{"start":4140.336,"end":4156.251,"text":"用這一些似是而非的理由來打擊政府這一個為了要保障人民的健康所做的這一些絕標的公告那我們已經有公告而且有遮蔽價格所以我剛才講的就是可惜了吧有絕標公告有絕標公告"},{"start":4160.595,"end":4189.113,"text":"你現在還在講錯的訊息啊不是錯的訊息啦是錯的訊息我想你們要講務實你們講理性你們講科學你完全反科學啊不理性啊也不務實啊我跟你講就有我說有你說沒有不需要不需要我們不需要你檢驗啦你講的就不對嘛這個是大家社會可以來檢驗的對啊我講的就是這樣啊我們不需要你檢驗所以你有公告你承認有公告嗎那我現在告訴你說你承認有公告嗎"},{"start":4189.913,"end":4207.018,"text":"你沒有公告啊 有啊有公告啊 你問你沒有公告啊有公告啊 你看你就要講假的 錯的消息啊你認為說是緊急採購嘛 對不對有公告 有絕標公告 有絕標公告還是要去做絕標公告 有絕標公告我已經講三次了沒關係 這個可以之後再來我們這個是有一個客觀的事實了嘛對嘛 你就說白菜啦 好啦"},{"start":4215.219,"end":4240.917,"text":"好 院長 那我想請教兩個月前 院長在國會也有指示說這個宏泰公益信託針對這個宗家交易案的部分那是由這個做處分的NCCC做監管而不是教育部那院長也在國會指示說應該NCCC負責去做調查然後釐清宏泰公益信託捐款的這個爭議但是呢 兩國會過去了 院長"},{"start":4243.018,"end":4263.839,"text":"NCC到現在也沒有約詢相關的單位去做調查然後也沒有向教育部去調閱資料那另外宏泰當初的承諾說要5年15億做公益哇 現在已經要搞了才捐了7億那除非今年要捐8億不然就要承諾跳票了"},{"start":4264.9,"end":4273.648,"text":"那請問陳院長面對NCC擺爛不作為甚至公然的違抗院長的命令請問院長現在要如何處理"},{"start":4274.315,"end":4294.301,"text":"我想NCC沒有擺爛NCC也積極在努力那今天我們的議題是在講高端合約如果委員你對於宏泰公益信託這件事情還要有所質詢的時候我會提供書面的報告本來監督政府各項的施政是我的職責嘛但是今天我們是專題報告是有關"},{"start":4296.602,"end":4304.025,"text":"高端的合約阿那你現在要談NCC的部分我說NCC沒有擺爛不應該這樣護航財團阿我們沒有護航財團我們沒有護航財團也沒有擺爛完全沒有擺爛這是你片面的講法"},{"start":4320.112,"end":4346.225,"text":"這是你片面的講法而今天的議題就是高端合約那我想問你今天來講這個東西你要資料我後面補充給你到底紅帶公益信託那騙了等於是騙了這一個行政處分那行政處分有付款的這是幾百億的交易案那也承諾說4年5年要捐15億那現在已經要跳票了那你做何處理我想通常會現在正在做各式各樣的調查"},{"start":4346.704,"end":4375.66,"text":"有關的爭議那經濟部也提供了股權的資料來進行分析那如果有違反這個相關的負擔的這個情形的話我們當然是依法處理現在是在釣房現在在根本他連續釣業教育部的資料連續做兩個月過去院長你已經指示他完全沒有處理這不是護航財團什麼是護航財團我想處理事情都有一定的程序一定的過程然後我再舉一個例子接避者保護法上個會期還有送進來"},{"start":4377,"end":4404.008,"text":"這個會期連送進來都沒有在你主持的行政院連送進來都沒有永豐金這是很明顯的他根本是在阻擾這個接避者保護法然後甚至對行政院對實力黨團對許多力推接避者保護法的人進行監控院長接避者保護法要再度跳票了嗎沒有我們這件事情已經在行政院"},{"start":4404.688,"end":4405.248,"text":"好 我們請華務部長來回答"},{"start":4426.459,"end":4431.203,"text":"沒有遙遙無期沒有遙遙無期只要這個法案只要這個法案我們審查通過我們一定會提出來我答應你一定會提出來"},{"start":4463.899,"end":4468.376,"text":"好 謝謝邱委員接下來請邱委員成言質詢"},{"start":4492.796,"end":4495.502,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們邀請陳建仁院長陳院長請"},{"start":4504.367,"end":4531.334,"text":"院長早安今天火氣有點大因為我覺得我們今天如果大家都來談高端我想今天我們還是針對議題來討論那昨天其實我們立法院召開朝野協商當時就針對這個高端合約是不是要公布我想還是回到今天的重點當時我們協商的結論我們是希望行政院在昨天下午的5點就提供相關今天專案報告的書面資料我想這個不過分吧"},{"start":4532.234,"end":4543.462,"text":"對 你們昨天才告訴我 那你那個數據資料這麼獲益吧但是你知道我們什麼時候才收到嗎今天早上8點15分才送到我辦公室對 那依法的專案報告請問一下 這個報告才11頁你需要到今天早上8點15 9點就要進行院會的專案報告 9點就要"},{"start":4556.77,"end":4557.211,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":4576.232,"end":4577.714,"text":"11月的報告整個高端採購500萬劑的疫苗花了國人40億的公帑"},{"start":4596.514,"end":4623.516,"text":"消毀了300多萬人的生命沒有錯但是相關國際採購的疫苗今天有相關已經可以使用的狀況下你的EUA你的實際在推動的過程中這麼多的疑慮甚至他後續的股價的異常這個都還沒有談到今天光是針對一個採購合約的一個公開都沒有辦法來完成整個40億的公帑"},{"start":4625.137,"end":4653.218,"text":"消毀了12億總共100多萬劑的疫苗你今天給我11頁的專案報告你還要拖到早上8點15才送到我辦公室這是對的嗎這是你面對民意的態度嗎如果你今天繼續這樣下去我可以告訴你今天這個專案報告今天這個臨時會等於是白開的全體的國人都在開為什麼因為今天的結論就是你們不願意公開你告訴我因為高端董事會不同意你們還在溝通還在要求"},{"start":4653.658,"end":4676.193,"text":"但是我必須告訴你難道政府完全對他們有約束力嗎難道完全都沒有辦法要求嗎這個案子不是一天兩天你的合約不能公開是因為價格的問題商業的問題保密的問題我都了解我是海外台商出身我非常清楚但是那是在疫情期間當時市場上有相對競爭的時候但是疫情解封到現在已經一年多了已經一年多了"},{"start":4676.993,"end":4687.816,"text":"當時的合約是簽五年委員你沒有講話的機會當時簽約是五年保密所以政府要維持政府的責任我今天不想在這邊講政治但是我希望你很正視這個問題我可以告訴你在政治上的立場你不公開對你們是比較傷啦"},{"start":4698.168,"end":4714.334,"text":"老實說是這樣子啦可是為什麼今天您的態度讓我非常的失望但是政府必要維持誠信我告訴你誠信是什麼你今天包含法務部在105年的韓誓這邊就有提到"},{"start":4715.114,"end":4741.514,"text":"得標的廠商投標單清單載有投標者投標履約的內容乃民眾監督履約之工具尚非為拒絕申請政府資訊之理由這個部分很清楚啦其實如果涉及跟民眾相關權益有關的你是可以要求他啦法務部已經含釋啦難道完全對高端公司都沒有相關的約束力難道一間公司用今天老實講用人民的納稅權來做這個疫苗採購"},{"start":4743.195,"end":4743.535,"text":"我想過了嘛"},{"start":4762.159,"end":4766.441,"text":"他到底不公開的主要原因是什麼你們溝通的內容溝通的細節溝通的結果你可不可以跟國人在這邊簡單報告"},{"start":4784.29,"end":4788.833,"text":"所以今天給國人的感覺就是行政院衛福部高端大家在互相甩鍋雙面手法拖過去沒有要拖"},{"start":4807.156,"end":4835.439,"text":"什麼時候開個董事會這麼困難立法院臨時會都可以開了各黨朝野大家現在都可以來開會了為什麼高端不行立法院也召開過立法院也召開了這個調閱小組的委員會所有的高端的疫苗大家也在那個小組裡面有看過了監察院也調過這個資料"},{"start":4836.8,"end":4854.445,"text":"臨時會議員："},{"start":4855.265,"end":4881.454,"text":"那你就繼續保密吧我建議你就繼續保密啊你看國人為什麼看你們你看國人為什麼看今天執政黨處理這件事情政治的核心在執行力啦成功的人找方法 失敗找藉口我想如果你用這樣的態度用這樣的態度來面對民意必須院長我不想跟你在這邊口舌之爭但是你今天的這樣子的態度讓我非常的失望從你們今天行政院你們的聯絡人告訴我們的原因是什麼"},{"start":4882.39,"end":4903.236,"text":"為什麼今天早上才送到辦公室 因為長官說沒有辦法提供昨天沒有辦法提供 請問這是哪一位長官哪一位長官我們昨天開會開到了晚上的時候所以你們還是要互相套招 然後11月的沒有套招 那我問你為什麼11月你要給我搞一天"},{"start":4904.196,"end":4904.997,"text":"當時高端"},{"start":4925.257,"end":4939.333,"text":"我告訴你啦今天民進黨在國會實質過半啦實質過半今天你們所有的道業小組所有的相關提供的資料都是遮蔽啦遮蔽至少三分之一以上啦相關的重要資訊都遮蔽這要怎麼審查你告訴我"},{"start":4940.094,"end":4951.858,"text":"只要不同意的全部都要透過表決幫我們封殺掉剛才你還有你們民進黨還有臉叫國會叫國人讓你們實質過半實質過半就是實質護航啊沒有幸好是國會過半啦如果到當時呢當時在貴黨就主張說不要開發國內的疫苗我們什麼時候說不用開發國內疫苗我在這邊質詢你去調資料我每次質詢高端我第一件事情是說我們支持國產疫苗發展不要亂扣報紙"},{"start":4970.188,"end":4971.909,"text":"我們所有的專案報告以往送來的時間都是在報告的當時送過來的"},{"start":4989.804,"end":4990.724,"text":"昨天晚上7點就到辦公室在等你們的報告我還要等到8點15"},{"start":5013.396,"end":5037.891,"text":"我們昨天晚上忙到11點才把這個報告給完成所以在委員你講的我沒辦法同意我會告訴院長你的報告結論就是不公開全部以高端董事會的決議為主只要他不同意你就沒有辦法公開你對他完全沒批條國人的訴求你沒有辦法回應簡單來講就是這樣子今天給我們的結論就是這樣子請問一下我們在這邊質詢我們這樣有意義嗎"},{"start":5040.526,"end":5045.853,"text":"我想法務部的105年的函式就講得很清楚了政府是可以去要求的"},{"start":5046.584,"end":5073.786,"text":"那如果你什麼事情都要推給民間那這樣子國人能夠接受嗎而且這個相關的資訊如果說今天是在疫情緊繃的期間他有國際上採購商業秘密價格之間的競爭這個我們都同意今天解封已經一年多了國人有資的權利而且這件事情是賴清德副總統也是我們的民進黨總統候選人他在總統辯論會上面他也主張的今天你是不是也應該來去回應民意"},{"start":5076.289,"end":5095.005,"text":"應該來去回應民意那如果你們要今天用這樣的態度委員你說我們要尊重合約那我們合約簽當時簽訂的就是5年的保密協定保密條款所以我們是應該要遵照這個5年的保密條款的方式來進行那你就繼續保存5年吧"},{"start":5095.305,"end":5098.066,"text":"但是我剛才講得很清楚嗎我剛才講得很清楚我剛才講得很清楚我可以講嗎"},{"start":5119.678,"end":5131.269,"text":"高端的疫苗我剛才已經報告得很清楚真實世界的數據出來他是跟BNT跟莫德納是一樣好的保護當時就是因為有很多人在"},{"start":5132.21,"end":5132.41,"text":"主席"},{"start":5152.097,"end":5173.755,"text":"我們理解涉及國家安全我們都同意涉及國產疫苗本來就是戰略物資本來就是國家安全的重要戰略物資我們都理解但是高端整個人過程國人的疑慮採購的金額相關合約的內牢甚至股價的異常坡道"},{"start":5174.395,"end":5175.356,"text":"委員你這講的都不對的啦"},{"start":5192.699,"end":5210.039,"text":"我又不對你都對好我講啊動物食用的結果早就發表了我們現在在告訴你高端合約的解密相關的效力我們沒有在跟你質疑效力喔我從頭到尾沒有在跟你質疑疫苗效力喔你不要再挖你不要再這個聲東擊西啦院長"},{"start":5210.54,"end":5238.26,"text":"不要這樣子好不好我們現在跟你講今天專報的內容相關合約採購的目標什麼時候要公布什麼時候能夠高端取得共識什麼時候能讓國人有知的權利這才是今天專報的重點我沒有在跟你討論疫苗的效力我拜託一下你剛剛還在糾正這個台上的委員另外一個部分除了在這個我今天我這樣聽起來合約是不可能公布的啦"},{"start":5239.08,"end":5261.222,"text":"至少在今天沒有結論啦我這樣聽起來啦我希望你們繼續來去要求這個法務部的含釋我希望你們仔細去看你們來用這個含釋是不是能對高端公司來進行相關的要求另外一個部分我們還是一再強調我們會支持政府的本土生技產業但是我們不希望有人利用這樣的正當性趁機哄抬股價"},{"start":5261.863,"end":5265.525,"text":"高端股價問題從它30塊附近漲起在短短一年半就暴漲逾13倍2021年5月更衝上417元尤其政府高層多次不避嫌"},{"start":5277.171,"end":5303.556,"text":"高端股跌停的時候還出面呼籲國產疫苗要有信心甚至帶頭打高端我想這個部分是不是請院長你解釋相關的股價異常波動上有沒有相關的問題好委員你是專家啦我跟你講全世界不會啦你比較專家啦好那你如果承認我是專家全世界在發展疫苗的人在發展的過程當中當動物實驗成功臨床實驗成功的時候那個股價就會一直上升"},{"start":5304.376,"end":5331.59,"text":"但是呢 如果實驗失敗的時候就會下降所以那個上升你看莫德納你看BNT的股價的變化是怎麼樣所以藥物的開發本來就是會隨著開發的不同期程它有成功的時候呢它就會股價會一直上升這個是很正常的事情所以不要懷疑它那你如果講到說有沒有什麼涉及不法實際上我們檢調單位已經查過這個士林的地檢署對於"},{"start":5333.351,"end":5348.165,"text":"有一位專家審查委員洩密這個高端實驗的好的結果給他的太太結果呢被判刑了三個月要判刑兩年我想你也很清楚嘛所以我們對於所有這些不法的事情都有在查證喔都有在這個偵辦那"},{"start":5350.854,"end":5379.933,"text":"所以這一件事情很重要而且立法院在衛黃委員會實際上呢他們也有調閱相關的這個資料那你說相關的資料在當時要提供說明也提供說明開了這麼多次的會議調閱小組開了這麼多次的會議也看了合約結果當時怎麼會沒有意見現在選舉到了又再來吵這個事情意見都很多啦只是都會被民進黨在國會直接表決封殺掉沒關係院長我剩下30秒我在這邊還是誠懇的呼籲我希望你們"},{"start":5380.854,"end":5381.034,"text":"我們一向很"},{"start":5417.691,"end":5447.145,"text":"好 謝謝區委員接下來請曾偉民中執行謝謝院長 我要先程序發言兩點 第一點 院會我就執行院長 這第一點其他部位所長不能上來第二點 院長我剛剛看的情況到底誰要執行誰啊叫院長打的時候再打還在反執行"},{"start":5450.097,"end":5478.386,"text":"好不好 院長這可能是這一屆你最後一次主席宴會希望展現是壯大民國立法院院長好不好好 謝謝 請院長好 陳院長請主委好院長好其實我看你答得不錯我問的問題你全部可以答放心我不會為難你"},{"start":5479.471,"end":5491.034,"text":"第一個羅志正委員的不雅的影片已經鑑定完成什麼事要公布這影片是不是偽造變造"},{"start":5508.294,"end":5527.808,"text":"我們尊重檢調的調查的結果調查結果是不是偽造變造那院長什麼時候公布選後再公布對不對我們會尊重司法獨立司法你想不要檢調一題你不公布就是戰斧借血"},{"start":5528.578,"end":5551.47,"text":"你同不同意不同意我想在檢調的調查過程當中你的立場我可以理解都要很審慎那你的立場當然也是會這樣子質詢我啊我是覺得很正常啊但是這個是不同意沒關係讓2300萬民眾去做出公斷好另外盧志政另外一個影片跟總統對話"},{"start":5553.8,"end":5573.241,"text":"那這個錄音檔外流到底誰偷錄這個影片這個也正在偵查當中還在偵查當然啦會不會是樓智峻自己錄就是他們兩個對話這是你個人的猜測那你認為誰錄"},{"start":5575.947,"end":5580.911,"text":"委員長你不要等閒視之啊我沒有等閒視之亞勝您跟蔡總統的對話也被錄了這有可能啊一個國會的議員跟總統的講話都被錄音那您"},{"start":5602.91,"end":5602.93,"text":"國安問題"},{"start":5632.25,"end":5632.27,"text":"一個國會議員：總統對話"},{"start":5635.663,"end":5664.274,"text":"被錄音 被流露出來或許明天就公布你跟總統的對話這是國安的問題這涉及到國家安全我同意這是國安的問題但是我跟你報告過了我們最重要的就是要讓檢調來以科學的方法還有很審慎的來看看有沒有是偽造變造等等所以這是不是要時間委員我們可以信口開河隨便講嗎當然不可以嘛"},{"start":5664.714,"end":5686.44,"text":"這就是為什麼檢調要審慎調查的原因我不是說你信口開河但是最重要的很多的人都沒有說什麼檢調馬上要公布這是不可能的事情嘛因為你事情的調查總是要時間"},{"start":5689.448,"end":5703.037,"text":"國安很重要我們會要求這很重要我也同意但是檢調會很審慎的來做相關的調查而且很迅速調查的時間我們會請這些單位一定要來加速的來辦理"},{"start":5714.417,"end":5733.455,"text":"好反正你問不出你什麼名堂好另外賴總統候選人12月30號表示為了釐清民眾對政府購買高端的疑慮政府要公布合約為什麼時間過去了到現在還不公布"},{"start":5734.292,"end":5756.064,"text":"好 這個理由我剛才已經有說明過了讓我再說明一下因為在當時我們跟高端簽訂這個合約的時候呢有五年保密的這一個條款那在政府視為簽約人的一方的時候呢我們當然要信守我們當時簽約的這一些約定那所以 但是政府呢我們曉得"},{"start":5757.125,"end":5757.526,"text":"院長你過去啊"},{"start":5775.091,"end":5794.784,"text":"那因為這裡有沒有條約的限制在政府需要維持政府的誠信如果政府沒有維持誠信的話高端的公司他的往來的對象幾乎只有蔡政府你知不知道知不知道他做生意的對象"},{"start":5796.496,"end":5820.222,"text":"我覺得這是你個人的看法什麼個人的看法你看他的銷售收入啊他做生意的收入啦沒關係你業務不熟啦我熟得很99.9%他的銷售收入都是只有蔡政府蔡政府他你只要他你他是你唯一"},{"start":5826.843,"end":5841.979,"text":"我剛才在報告的時候也跟兩位邱委員在講的時候就講得很清楚我們是也主張要公開而且我們也是積極的來跟高端來聯繫希望他能夠盡早來公布"},{"start":5842.159,"end":5844.561,"text":"民法規定顯示公平的合約是無效的我練給你聽"},{"start":5873.124,"end":5895.558,"text":"廠商說明已盡商業上最大努力而無法履歷者機關同意不對廠商追償以致付出契約價金那接下來呢就這樣子喔他已經最大努力就不追償價金啦剛才我的報告裡面已經講了如果可以歸屬於廠商院長我跟你講我當了一輩子的公務員我沒有看過這種合約"},{"start":5902.305,"end":5918.653,"text":"沒有看過這種合約顯示公平難怪你不敢公布啦你這樣講我不同意很重要的一件事情是剛才我的剛才我已經講過嘛剛才我已經講過如果可歸屬於廠商的是要處罰的啊我沒有處罰的就處罰所以並不是沒有處罰你這樣講你是斷章取義啦沒有啊這合約啊"},{"start":5931.204,"end":5950.599,"text":"對阿我跟你講就是說我剛才也講過如果違反合約的時候是廠商的責任他是要受處罰的阿有阿有寫在另外一條阿所以所以我覺得阿就業公布就可以了啦什麼處罰阿你懂不懂阿好再請教你阿我懂喔這個疫苗阿我有幾個疑點好你說第一個"},{"start":5954.397,"end":5972.506,"text":"高端是民間公司為什麼未服務還沒有採購高端公司就已經知道採購價格他就知道要700塊以上欸那個是錯假消息啦那個700塊是錯假消息絕對是真消息"},{"start":5973.973,"end":5999.606,"text":"委員那個是我們疾管署當時都還沒有這是錯假消息真的是錯假消息當時是疾管署他們為了要要採購這個疫苗所講的那個是錯假消息然後被剪接的被會黨的議員剪接的消息這是假消息第二點"},{"start":6001.066,"end":6020.183,"text":"為什麼衛福部還沒有通過疫苗的審查高端知道一定會通過一路一路立登這也是錯假消息錯假真的阿你怎麼會一路通過我們當時有三家廠商一路開立登阿你沒看過那個錄音帶一路開立登阿好委員我可以講嗎好"},{"start":6027.816,"end":6030.557,"text":"你對資本市場不熟啦高端的前身叫什麼"},{"start":6054.321,"end":6083.684,"text":"高端在證交所或者櫃檯中心的紀錄我們要看他實驗的結論講科學啦講科學啦你講科學來講不管他你這樣講是不公平的不公平啊你去查紀錄好我們來查紀錄他的動物實驗很成功動物實驗很成功臨床一期很成功臨床二期很成功而且出來的效果比AZ還要來得好"},{"start":6084.164,"end":6085.606,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6105.393,"end":6121.389,"text":"民進黨說高端是疫苗國家隊對不對對不對我聽不清楚你說好再講一次民進黨政府說高端是疫苗國家隊對不對我想當時我們徵求的疫苗國家隊一共有三個隊"},{"start":6122.29,"end":6143.174,"text":"一個就是聯亞 一個就是國光 一個就是高端而且他們在很嚴格的限制下要把動物實驗的結果臨床一期 臨床二期提出來才能夠做這就是國家隊我們鼓勵所有的廠商投入疫苗研發而不是去鼓勵政府去採購中國的疫苗那個疫苗效價最差的 幸好沒有 幸好沒有採購"},{"start":6152.239,"end":6153.52,"text":"所以我們的國交隊是必要來購﹖"},{"start":6162.52,"end":6181.539,"text":"他是什麼國家隊阿他在他在巴拉圭取得臨床三期他在泰國取得臨床三期他跟世界衛生組織有這個技術轉移的這個簽約而且他世界衛生組織也幫他做三期的臨床實驗完全抹煞了科學的證據完全抹煞科學證據"},{"start":6186.204,"end":6193.949,"text":"好 再跟你講疫苗是國家對對不對那為什麼這一次的流感疫苗你是代理韓國的疫苗沒辦法自己生產你連流感的疫苗都沒辦法自己生產欸你還代理韓國的欸"},{"start":6211.923,"end":6221.415,"text":"我想委員你不要把高端疫苗跟流感疫苗 流感疫苗的製作比起高端疫苗的製作要來得簡單我問提示在這裡我代理韓國的這什麼國家隊啊"},{"start":6227.403,"end":6230.344,"text":"我還是那個問題你既然是疫苗國家隊連"},{"start":6255.93,"end":6258.131,"text":"在當時臺灣缺疫苗的時候在野黨要求我們用中國的疫苗"},{"start":6280.962,"end":6281.382,"text":"高端股價"},{"start":6307.079,"end":6311.904,"text":"從2020的27元一路炒到20215月31的417塊後來一路下跌昨天收盤是68.4元院長有多少散戶"},{"start":6326.209,"end":6334.373,"text":"臨時慘重打電話到辦公室抗議蔡政府蔡政府蔡政府從20幾塊抖化41728塊都要閃出受害院長你知不知道"},{"start":6345.964,"end":6347.765,"text":"我們已經查了而且已經判刑了"},{"start":6386.906,"end":6411.245,"text":"好 謝謝鄭委員接下來請林委員竣現質詢謝謝主席本席邀請我們行政院陳院長院長請衛生部部長華務部部長華務部部長請林委員好院長好"},{"start":6412.557,"end":6441.264,"text":"委員長想不到我們到2024年第一次在立法院開會還在討論高端疫苗的事情高端疫苗啊這個事情討論了兩年多啦光是行政院院長的報告就有三次你今天第四次來光是在委員會的專案報告就有16次在委員會的調閱就有兩次國民黨的召委講話很主持契約拿給"},{"start":6441.929,"end":6471.034,"text":"就拿出來看嘛對不對對有沒有看過看過兩遍啦看過兩次啦講完組織的會議啦所以有什麼樣的弊案啊就告了63個案司法偵辦啊法務部長在那全部都是沒有佈罰偵檢不起訴嘛說不定有問題還去找啊今天為什麼叫你來所以你要有耐心一點啦我覺得他們是為了選舉啦"},{"start":6472.247,"end":6473.747,"text":"這是他們的選舉動作國民黨真的有心要查"},{"start":6502.369,"end":6529.625,"text":"我剛上台以前看一下啦38席的國民黨委員啦只來23席啦還有40%的國民黨立委沒有來啦還是我們民進黨幫忙他動員今天才可以成會啦真的有心要查就全部來啊負責任一點啊國民黨立委國民黨黨團自己都叫不過來啦結果開會都不來啊他們今天要求開這個題目啊以為民進黨會把他封殺啦"},{"start":6531.784,"end":6553.288,"text":"選前4天開什麼臨時會討論一個已經2年多來我剛才再講一次行政院長專案報告3次委員會專案報告16次委員會調閱2次司法查了63個案子全部不起訴選前4天還在開這個會為了什麼懂了嗎為了選舉他以為民進黨把他火絕掉讓會開不成然後就說民進黨害怕民進黨要隱瞞"},{"start":6562.978,"end":6582.746,"text":"講不到 我們就只求對決嘛就讓城鎮的院長來講清楚嘛讓在野黨來質詢嘛只是你講得再好 你說得再清楚他們一樣不接受因為你剛有提到啦契約為什麼不能公布我們好像跟每一個當時搶購疫苗全世界都在搶契約裡面啊"},{"start":6585.114,"end":6605.847,"text":"他們都有要求保命的年限嘛好啦高端就算我們現在請他公布他不公布如果他董事會開了一樣不公布那五年後我們就有權利公布了嘛是不是這樣子 財務部長是不是這樣子最慢就是五年嘛五年嘛 對不對所以我們現在請他公布嘛 對不對"},{"start":6607.159,"end":6634.157,"text":"我們現在我們不是只有針對高端的有保密條款所有的都有AZ高端保密一年五年我理解這樣對不對因為你們以前都破過了我都有印象Normal Facts保密七年對不對BNT十年莫德納賣我們要求永遠不能公布我們那時候為了要搶莫德納大家說要住莫德納所以我們就知道也是簽了我們這個永遠不能公布"},{"start":6636.172,"end":6658.415,"text":"那在立法院委員會調閱的時候其實啊 你說有 國民黨說有一些東西有圖的啦但是啦 其實最重要的數字 後來都有浮現出來嘛疫苗的單價嘛 疫苗的數量嘛然後政府花了多少錢嘛 這最重要的啊還在炒這個事情"},{"start":6659.721,"end":6688.375,"text":"不要妄想用高端疫苗案當作是凱旋院這扒皮了的遮羞布所以你今天浪費行政和立法的資源照理埋在這裡討論過那麼多次還在討論這有問題是要去告嘛那我在請問院長你剛說你要說清楚的查了那麼多那高端的股價異常有沒有人為炒作"},{"start":6697.452,"end":6716.66,"text":"在這個高端的相關的這個案件涉及不法的部分其實檢調單位曾經有調查士林地檢署有這個對於食藥署裡面的疫苗審查專家這個劉醫師他洩密高端的這個好的這個研究成果給他的太太"},{"start":6718.861,"end":6742.789,"text":"因此因為犯了內線交易經過市林地院判決有期徒刑三個月緩刑兩年有期徒刑一年六個月緩刑四年這一個部分都已經有所定案所以如果真的有不法的時候我們一定是查到底的這個是絕對不會有所搜索的我們一定會全力以赴"},{"start":6743.789,"end":6765.03,"text":"所以政府是這樣子的來看看這個高端的這樣的情形那我剛才講過這個有民間提出了63件對於陳時中的圖利瀆職的這一些控訴在臺北地檢署他經過了這個調查以後就查無不法全數遷截所以在這裡"},{"start":6765.811,"end":6791.691,"text":"我們已經經過了這一些很嚴謹的事情而且地檢署就是完全按照這樣的方式很認真的在查緝相關的可能被提起來弊案但是都是完全查無不法然後完全簽結所以這件事情我是覺得我完全同意委員現在在講才提出來完全是在一個選舉的炒作不過如果講到選舉的炒作我真的很想"},{"start":6792.512,"end":6810.866,"text":"我可以講一下嗎我們來看看當COVID-19剛剛開始進入到台灣的時候我們的在野黨還有境外勢力的這一個協力者他怎麼說說我們要跟中國一樣看待我們一定要來這一個封城我們一定要普篩我們一定要停班停課我們一定要停工"},{"start":6812.076,"end":6823.068,"text":"好在我們當時的中央流行疫情指揮中心說不是我們要做好邊境管控我們要做好疫調我們要做好居家隔離居家檢疫結果呢我們在2020年"},{"start":6824.733,"end":6843.238,"text":"三百六十五天裡面有兩百五十多天是零確診全世界大為驚豔而且我們的經濟在那個時候是全世界成長率最高的兩個國家之一那美國也是這樣來稱讚美國的經濟研究所也是說臺灣做得最好死亡率最低而經濟負成長"},{"start":6845.319,"end":6861.997,"text":"最少也就是有正成長的一個國家全世界第一名喔但是到了2021年我們開始在談疫苗的時候多少的在野黨還有境外勢力的呼和者說要買中國的疫苗那中國的疫苗是所有的銷價最低的"},{"start":6863.038,"end":6887.517,"text":"致力買了中國的疫苗以後疫情繼續上升直到打BNT才下來澳洲跟香港也打了這個疫苗然後不得不打BNT的疫苗幸好當時我們是蔡總統能夠贏得2020的選舉幸好國會過半要不的話我們的防疫特別條例我們的疫後特別條例要通過我看還是百般刁難"},{"start":6888.658,"end":6910.515,"text":"那好 那我們當時幸好沒有買國藥跟這個科興喔你如果買了以後 像中國一樣連續三年 處處在封城 天天在普篩然後經濟蕭條 就會隨著中國沉淪那個時候 因為有很多的民眾為了"},{"start":6912.449,"end":6932.483,"text":"臨時會議"},{"start":6932.623,"end":6960.014,"text":"只有7成5打預防針你看看日本韓國還有新加坡多到9成5以上所以我們台灣死亡的人大部分都是沒有打預防針的這些老人家一個錯誤的建議一個抹黑謾罵使得台灣有多少老人家因此而死亡這實在令我很痛心欸可以這樣嗎可以為了政治利益使得我們的國人不願意去打預防針"},{"start":6961.581,"end":6983.169,"text":"可以嗎還現在選舉到了還要繼續來謾罵現在要鼓勵大家來XBB啦這樣子一講老人家又不去打了誰要負責任所以我覺得齁這一些在野黨實在是不是幸好你看看如果不是蔡總統連任不是國會過半如果韓國瑜"},{"start":6984.649,"end":7009.727,"text":"選上了總統如果其他的在野黨過半的時候台灣不會有今天這樣的局面這是我今天很沉痛的要講高端疫苗是多好的疫苗動物實驗臨床一期臨床二期都做得那麼成功在世界一流的雜誌上發表偏偏要抹黑讓台灣的人民不願意去接種但是副作用最低的你讓那些怕副作用的老人家不打於心何忍啊"},{"start":7011.089,"end":7021.322,"text":"真的我今天實在是大家說我激動我就是這樣激動的原因就是我這樣子依附到中國去的做法"},{"start":7022.233,"end":7042.079,"text":"就是很可能使得台灣是很沉淪的跟著中國一起沉淪所以台灣在這幾年3年我們的經濟GDP是連續3年最高的而且我們的這個外銷也是最高的所以我們才有很好的這個稅入稅出盈餘連續5年超過1000億去2022年可以到達5000億這是全民努力的成果"},{"start":7050.382,"end":7075.85,"text":"但是政協黨為了政治利益可以這樣抹煞我們全民的努力可以抹煞所有防疫一線的人員這2300萬個無名英雄的攻擊可以這樣抹煞嗎今天我實在是太難過了院長你也辛苦啦但是啦我們也知道在當時啦台灣確實防疫成績啦是全世界肯定光是海外的台灣人跑回台灣國內回來避難了"},{"start":7079.202,"end":7104.776,"text":"當時估計就至少100萬有能力都跑回台灣來台灣那時候200多天是零確診是全世界最安全的地方當時疫苗剛...就是說剛需要注射疫苗的時候啦國民黨還強力要求說不可以歧視中國疫苗你剛有提到嘛 對不對要求大家要...這個政府要進口中國疫苗來打中國人自己都不打他們的疫苗啦"},{"start":7105.632,"end":7133.16,"text":"有能力的中國人啊他們都他們還叫打輝瑞啦他們自己的疫苗他們也不敢打但不管如何啦回歸到今天在黨再來搞這個所謂的高端疫苗啦什麼契約啦完全就是為了選舉操作完全為了要轉移焦點那既然會已經開了民進黨協助會才開得成要求要開會的是國民黨"},{"start":7135.76,"end":7163.995,"text":"自己的立委也不來開會還是民進黨幫他動員現在會議才開了什麼說疫苗 疫苗也不是沒有討論過我剛就提過啦這兩年多來開了幾十次會議在當時啦 委員會調閱的時候啦立法院委員會的每一個立委都看過契約啦他們說有土匪啦土匪的部分我認為主要就是價格啦 數量等那些東西嘛"},{"start":7164.91,"end":7187.53,"text":"後來高端自己也有片面的一些公布那我再說如果他真的他們公司拒絕公布那5年後這個東西大家還是看得到但是如果契約有限定就像我們剛提的AZ高端說5年Normal Vax 7年BND要求10年莫德納要求我們永遠不能公布"},{"start":7189.485,"end":7217.779,"text":"那我搞不懂大家可以要求災難各要求政府去做一個違反契約違法的事情嗎就這麼簡單啊是不是這樣 任何人都有可能執政啊任何政黨執政你可以簽一個合約然後你自己違背違背跟這個契約這顯不合理嘛但是重點資訊啊也不是沒有討論過"},{"start":7219.892,"end":7235.533,"text":"那不是這樣?所以吼,你今天吼,沒關係啦,這是你行政院長的職責啦,你到我們立法院來,你就把該解釋的解釋,該說明的說明。但是你講的再好,說明的再清楚,這些東西,他們還是不會接受。"},{"start":7236.683,"end":7256.861,"text":"這院長不要收集我不是收集我是覺得台灣人的生命是很重要 健康的保護是很重要那在這樣的一個情況下我們真的是希望我們草野都能夠團結一致使得台灣的防疫工作做得越來越好不要去抹黑台灣的這一個很難得做出來的這個好疫苗"},{"start":7257.381,"end":7283.104,"text":"然後使得很多的民眾因為他被抹黑的關係沒有辦法使用而喪失了很多的生命這一件事情我到現在說老實話我是沒有辦法接受的啦好 謝謝啦 一定辛苦你啦我們一定努力的按照委員的意見在這裡來好好回答問題選舉到了都會發生這些奇奇怪怪的事情我也希望我們全民大家團結一致抗議"},{"start":7283.604,"end":7307.457,"text":"在這裡我還要再呼籲一下希望大家都能夠去打XBB的COVID-19的預防針因為中國大陸現在有JN1新的病毒株出來這個病毒株這個XBB的疫苗才會有效以往打的不會有效果那我也希望大家不要再去抹黑然後大家好好的去做好這個預防的接種那才是全民之福啦好 謝謝院長 謝謝榮華部長謝謝主席"},{"start":7315.609,"end":7317.131,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進我以為"},{"start":7337.884,"end":7362.827,"text":"今天老柯一向老謀深算老君懼華要同意我們來開歷史會其中必有詐以為說要公開了要讀我們的嘴要公開了原來都沒有了原來今天來這一本就是什麼這一本叫做陳建仁替高端"},{"start":7364.804,"end":7390.102,"text":"擦肢模糊報告書啦貴為行政院長自甘墮落成為高端的salesman開口閉口高端我贊都我贊台灣我贊都我贊喔台灣他就贊啊別人不行啊3加11的破口不要忘了死了多少人死了多少人高端到現在為止走不出去啊"},{"start":7391.141,"end":7400.699,"text":"國際沒有承認高端不要忘了他到現在為止沒有做第三期喔院長你不要當了院長來請院長來院長請"},{"start":7409.562,"end":7434.547,"text":"委員謝謝你請我上來我還以為你不讓我有講的機會實際上你上來講的是完全不正確我沒有叫你講先不要講OK你尊重我在這裡是我的時間是我的時間院長大家原來你上台大家覺得你多少一個學術良心你中研院這麼高的位置這麼高的學術高度我剛才講的都是自習講完你不要插嘴可以嗎請你不要插嘴尊重我"},{"start":7435.247,"end":7455.453,"text":"那你給我講話的機會我讓你講話再講今天前面的委員今天為什麼這個會賴清德自己講的是賴清德先Kick Go賴清德說要公開高端疫苗到昨天還講要公開是賴清德要公開"},{"start":7457.093,"end":7476.743,"text":"不要忘了什麼政治鬥爭什麼之類的我們是跟著去說你看民調臺灣的人民70%的人希望公開所以才今天要講臨時會來 院長你不要回答你不回答你不要回答來來來問你你有沒有講過高端要公開"},{"start":7484.198,"end":7487.259,"text":"陳建仁說高端公開要同時會同意陳時中嗆嗆你喔 不可以啊徐樂園也嗆你啊"},{"start":7511.431,"end":7529.851,"text":"雖然又上了一課﹚斷章取義﹚他說要高端考量中啊高端不是你們的紅帝勒好像是你們的太上皇一樣欸我不同意高端 高端 欸 什麼東西 欸 來這是不是你講的 陳建仁一月五號講的"},{"start":7532.153,"end":7537.716,"text":"請你針對問題回答說是不是要公開一定要高端同意是不是是不是yes no好這樣就好了來"},{"start":7559.4,"end":7565.764,"text":"高端是行政院的太上皇嗎?你剛才回答你不同意高端公司是民營的公司剛才院長在"},{"start":7575.35,"end":7575.95,"text":"我可以回答嗎"},{"start":7599.976,"end":7607.583,"text":"軍公教連改也是依法辦理而且大法官釋憲的結果是可以進行軍公教改革你相信大法官的解釋還是相信"},{"start":7618.594,"end":7619.255,"text":"你誤解了臺灣的法律"},{"start":7635.384,"end":7660.544,"text":"我告訴你你講說要信守契約只針對高端軍公教不必信守契約啊軍公教不必信守這個承諾而且這是法律欸高端沒有法律好我講給你聽高端在民國110年5月30號重巡樓重大訊息發布他是上櫃公司"},{"start":7663.449,"end":7666.172,"text":"限制條款依採購機關要求就是衛福部要求"},{"start":7677.159,"end":7700.224,"text":"不可以公開所以不是高端不要公開啊找到捏到衛福部要求衛福部沒有要求他重訓是這樣要求重訓是一單方面公告的我們經過衛福部同意叫他公開這個是高端的重訓114年5月30日重訓他說是你們要求他不可以公開"},{"start":7705.305,"end":7713.455,"text":"是你們要求的我們沒有要求阿他這樣寫阿他這樣寫必須要我們通過我們的同意他就可以寫阿你沒有就針阿你沒有就針阿"},{"start":7716.479,"end":7736.45,"text":"我不是他在這個證券的這個主管的機關他是你太上皇嗎什麼叫太上皇現在是民主時代哪有什麼太上皇現在行政院委員部自導自演你叫他不可以公開結果現在說公開要他同意現在這個事情"},{"start":7737.39,"end":7762.364,"text":"高端是民營公司,難道民營公司政府隨便要怎麼樣就可以怎麼樣嗎?叫做全台灣的民營公司要怎麼樣去生存這是他一念之詞,問負部沒有叫他不可以公開"},{"start":7763.044,"end":7790.349,"text":"委員你不要用高端的重訓來...奇怪 重訓 高端的事奇怪 他公開資料欸拜託這是公開資料錯誤的資料來來來 黃主委黃主委來來講講一下重訓 黃主委怎麼處理重訓儘管會主委他的重訓居然是一文不值啊儘管會主委是幹什麼的來來來 黃主委講一下重訓怎麼處理"},{"start":7791.973,"end":7813.538,"text":"那他公布是真的假的你們要不要查核這個就是他當委員您剛才垂詢的事情我不太瞭解他的背景你去瞭解好不好你去瞭解假如即便這樣來我在你可以請回好不好就居然"},{"start":7824.596,"end":7852.673,"text":"來 我們來看喔 下一張上一張我們可以 我們來可以看了可以看為什麼這裡面你一定不能公開為什麼一定不能公開他又沒有要外銷他只有一百零一個買主就是衛務部他去年的一到七月份營業額是零啊靠著"},{"start":7859.871,"end":7874.317,"text":"報告 報告委員高端的長病毒疫苗已經上市對 你完全不懂高端的情況而且現在 委員我可以講了吧"},{"start":7876.001,"end":7900.13,"text":"你剛才講的這一些說高端賣得很少怎麼樣但是呢你不要忘掉高端沒有但是高端我剛才講過世界衛生組織跟高端有要進轉但是高端的疫苗確實高端的COVID-19疫苗確實保護了台灣300萬人的生命"},{"start":7904.013,"end":7915.878,"text":"這個你不可以否認因為它的效果就是跟BNT跟莫德納一樣好啊那你現在抹煞了這種事情就是因為很多人這樣的抹煞才會使得台灣的產業沒有辦法"},{"start":7925.201,"end":7940.807,"text":"我等一下給你一系列的東西你現在就講 下次講國民黨哪一位立委說要進口中國疫苗哪一位你說你在這裡分放假訊息啊你就是假訊息中心陳院長你怎麼可以這樣子啊這樣子沒有辦法討論事情啊要來講的是事實當時有多少人主張要進入中國"},{"start":7950.331,"end":7951.552,"text":"國民黨團提案說我們進口全世界"},{"start":7969.232,"end":7993.116,"text":"包括中國的疫苗就是包括中國疫苗啊你講的就是中國疫苗啊世界衛生組織核准的疫苗就是有中國的疫苗所以你們要是主張中國疫苗啊因為你要世界衛生組織核准的就是中國疫苗所以你是有主張啊所以你剛才自己講了有啊"},{"start":7993.576,"end":8008.779,"text":"你說進口世界衛生組織合格的疫苗就包括了中國的科興跟中國的國藥所以你這樣主張難道不是嗎你這個是假訊息你自己世界衛生組織合格的就包括中國疫苗"},{"start":8009.591,"end":8034.539,"text":"什麼會沒有 你告訴我世界衛生組織可不可的疫苗有沒有中國疫苗 有沒有 有啊 確實是有當然有 但是也有中國的疫苗啊所以你們也是主張會進入世界衛生組織的list裡面嘛所以我沒有報告小訊息 是你自己講的是你講說你們主張世界衛生組織的疫苗通通可以進口"},{"start":8035.629,"end":8042.671,"text":"那世界衛生組織通過的疫苗就是包括了科興跟國藥假查為什麼明明他說700塊才會殺你啊為什麼2881平均840這不是圖利就是罵你喔這是笨蛋"},{"start":8059.543,"end":8087.137,"text":"這不是文章你那個7百塊你那個7百塊是Tag Average台灣當中買3千萬這個疫苗是想說大概要7百塊委員不要忘掉AZ疫苗是很便宜的AZ疫苗是很便宜的那個我們剛才講到的中國的疫苗那種很簡單的做法的還有那個高階的疫苗像高端的是不一樣所以這是說一下你7百塊錢那個是錯的消息"},{"start":8087.984,"end":8093.226,"text":"剪調是我不同意這件事情你這樣講的話我不同意剪調怎麼會是行政院開的你這樣講不對嘛"},{"start":8112.254,"end":8114.176,"text":"委員不要選舉到了到處抹黑啦沒有意思的是你講的"},{"start":8133.834,"end":8143.138,"text":"你真的不是圖利就是飯桶講到你痛處所以你跟我吵架沒有我沒有飯桶我沒有圖利你飯桶或是圖利我可以講嗎我可以講嗎不是圖利不可以講"},{"start":8161.818,"end":8165.599,"text":"你對廢死態度怎麼樣財務委員說廢死不是目標陳菊人權會成立廢死的推動工作項目"},{"start":8190.868,"end":8220.391,"text":"有院長說廢除死刑是我們努力的目標啊所以民進黨推動廢死在路上在路上在哪裡在路上在路上啊黨綱把它查一查有廢死啊今天來講為什麼可以拖28個38個3738 37都一樣whatever很多為什麼這樣就是因為你們用一個叫死刑執行規則這不是法律啊"},{"start":8222.181,"end":8226.906,"text":"在這裡公開呼籲大家反對被死的人票投侯友宇、張紹康"},{"start":8244.984,"end":8245.305,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":8272.625,"end":8276.572,"text":"休息10分鐘休息之後繼續進行執行現在休息"},{"start":8912.93,"end":8913.07,"text":"邱委員長"},{"start":8937.233,"end":8955.253,"text":"我想在這三四年來大家臺灣的防疫非常的成功在各個各界還有人民全民的配合支持下會說是達到了一個我在2021年曾經五月的時候曾經寫一個文章在這個"},{"start":8957.634,"end":8982.624,"text":"臺灣news也是這次到我們臺灣將要面對一個會創造一個臺灣光榮的時刻接下來在政府的領導之下全民的努力之下我們做到了看下一站那我站在這個立場我必須要來肯定我們全國醫療同仁過去的努力以及我們政府怎麼樣跟"},{"start":8983.855,"end":9000.932,"text":"一介來合作的很簡單的跟院長跟他說明一下首先我們非常感謝我們蔡總統一直在防疫的一個工作裡面一直支持我們不管我們什麼需求只要跟總統講他其實都會盡全力來努力"},{"start":9002.059,"end":9029.89,"text":"我們也感謝陳副總統當時領導建立一個非常溫馨、智慧、有專業的一個防疫的模式其實是帶領我們醫界走向一個醫療堅定、醫療核心價值以及站在人民需求的立場上來創造一個更好的醫療防疫的能力請看下一張那在這幾年當中我們也真的非常感謝陳副總統其實他一直深深的"},{"start":9031.059,"end":9038.176,"text":"以他醫師的專業以他過去的經驗一直在指導我們EJ甚至也多次到我們醫師工會"},{"start":9040.178,"end":9061.853,"text":"來這邊做現場的一個互動指導那如果有任何的需要其實或者他想到要指導我們什麼的話其實我們是溝通無礙所以在防疫的過程當中賴副總統對我們醫界貢獻是非常的大那當然行政團隊在蘇院長的領導之下我們很多的我的好朋友都是疫情專家"},{"start":9063.214,"end":9077.161,"text":"的投入我深深的日以繼夜在為防疫工作在這邊也特別用醫界的立場來感謝他們的投入那當然醫事公會過去因為醫界總是台灣珍貴的資產"},{"start":9080.121,"end":9103.793,"text":"國際百年來就是一直守護人民的健康所以當然一開始還有SARS的經驗SARS在我們陳建仁老師還有很多前輩的指導之下一切學到了很好的經驗所以一開始的時候我們一切就很擔心就立誓說不能有任何的醫護人員在受到傷害相對的就不能有人民受到傷害所以我們基本上全國"},{"start":9105.895,"end":9131.173,"text":"24縣市的醫治工委全部推收日理企業在做防疫的工作以外大概每一個禮拜我們都會開一個全國性的醫治會議然後看看政府有來配合政府的政策把落實到所有全國各鄉鎮的任何一個角落有疫情有狀況我們在社區就給他鎖住最好的一個防疫的一個陣線那比如說我們在"},{"start":9132.586,"end":9161.278,"text":"人員醫院比較緊迫的時候我們可以看下面的部分其實我們也發動了全國的也是在總統的指導之下基層醫師在出來拚因為醫院緊緊緊繃、人力緊繃還有很多重症需要治療所以我們就動員了四大方向當然也請奧比奧科醫學會來做指導全國來做篩檢的工作當然我們因為人心會需要穩定"},{"start":9162.029,"end":9186.988,"text":"除了我的老師陳建仁院長給我們全國很大的心理的一個支持以外我們也要給他們做身心壓力的一個照顧這個我們請精神醫學會來幫忙另外在社區還是很多預防保健及慢性的疾病的管理及家級安寧照顧等等的一個照顧其實在我們也請家庭醫學會動員來指導我們跟基層醫師來做"},{"start":9190.973,"end":9218.405,"text":"最後就是我們的一個社區打疫苗的事情我們請兒科醫學院他們比較會打疫苗來做所以這樣有動員萬民的基層醫療這樣做那這個過程當中我也感謝我們陳建仁老師在這樣的一個工作裡面給我們最大的支持那當然後續完成的六大任務這一次這幾年來最重要就是不管是PCR的採檢還有就是演技的一個診療大家應該知道這個"},{"start":9219.728,"end":9232.682,"text":"當台北市在疫情緊繃的時候,一天有1萬個感染者這1萬多只要有20隻跑到醫院去,醫院急診就崩潰了但是我們政府有一個很好的政策,就是居家的一個醫療,視訊醫療"},{"start":9236.519,"end":9238.44,"text":"那當然就是在疫苗的追踪其實也感謝陳"},{"start":9266.872,"end":9267.872,"text":"當然這樣的成果我們"},{"start":9297.014,"end":9326.181,"text":"也不只在國內所處我們只要分享給我們世界各國那剛好我們台灣醫師會跟世界醫師會互動非常好所以我們的專家把我們台灣的很多經驗也分享到世界各國所以世界醫師會更加肯定我們台灣在過去醫療的水準甚至防疫的水準都是一流的更加的堅定支持我們台灣一定要參與WHO的活動所以大家的防疫成果其實是"},{"start":9327.003,"end":9353.862,"text":"幫我們臺灣打下了很多的江山那我也曾經在2021我擔任這個亞大19個國家醫師會的總會長我們也把我們的經驗分享給亞洲19個國家讓他們能夠防疫的更好亞太的安全當然是大家努力的那同時也在2021年的9月在臺灣開的西貿大會裡面我們把過去大家努力的經驗 心血"},{"start":9356.092,"end":9378.78,"text":"呈現在有一個叫做臺北宣言發表在國際間最近也得到WHO世界議事會世界議事會跟WHO息子相關要我們把它正式在REVISE 變成世界級我想都是我們政府民間還有各個專業團體大家一起努力貢獻的一個結果請看下一張那請問"},{"start":9383.73,"end":9410.387,"text":"院長有沒有對前面這些工作要不要跟我們醫療團隊或者是講幾句話我想台灣在過去2020年開始連續三四年的這個期間我們真的要謝謝我們邱太偉委員還有我們醫事公會甚至全國防疫還有醫療第一線的工作同仁們的辛勞大家的努力確實使得"},{"start":9411.428,"end":9411.648,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":9441.408,"end":9460.111,"text":"臨時會議員："},{"start":9460.111,"end":9489.923,"text":"臨時會議員："},{"start":9490.123,"end":9515.32,"text":"新北市跟北市因為有所謂的萬華事件的關係所以這個疫情曾經告急在這樣的一個情況下也幸好我們在新北市跟台北市的醫師們大家都積極來努力做好疫調做好相關的醫療照顧我記得當時這兩個市的市長還說我們來封城好了我們沒有辦法做疫調沒有辦法做好"},{"start":9516.04,"end":9540.371,"text":"在那樣的一個情況下完全束手無策要放棄原來的防疫措施幸好我們所有的醫事人員還有第一線的防疫人員大家很積極的去做好這個工作結果我們把Alpha的這個疫情也控制住全世界都大為驚豔我們當時的接種率很低的情況下就是靠著很好的精準疫調精準篩檢精準的"},{"start":9540.931,"end":9541.031,"text":"主席"},{"start":9561.772,"end":9588.17,"text":"好 謝謝院長陳老師的一個鼓勵以及對全國醫療團隊所有環醫的工作等等的一個再度的鼓勵那其實這些成功其實是其來有自當然這個努力我也要感謝我們協熱人部長在這過去幾年當中次長的任內跟我們醫界攜手合作我們到哪裡他就到哪裡一樣的"},{"start":9589.355,"end":9611.6,"text":"來做一種防疫的工作在這邊特別感謝我們謝部長那我要講的就是前面的努力其實直擊於臺灣的珍貴所以臺灣應該要更加來和諧更加的來互相攜手來把所有過去大家的努力累積的老幹心之傳承好繼續守護這個臺灣像我剛剛這個圖就是"},{"start":9615.236,"end":9640.705,"text":"我們其實臺灣百年來醫者就是關懷人民跟社會的情懷那我也記得我的老師臺大醫學院的前院長謝伯仁教授其實我這30年來所有在不管在醫師公會或者是在立委案上我都跟隨他的理念他是一個不求名利只求臺灣好的人在過去他也跟陳建仁教授非常合作在推動很多很多到現在"},{"start":9642.254,"end":9647.098,"text":"臺灣有這樣的資產,我們大家未來可以珍惜守護臺灣,讓臺灣的專業發揮,我想是人民之福"},{"start":9666.291,"end":9680.837,"text":"那小弟我大概在去年也是借領臺大退休的所以我現在是臺大的名譽教授那但是我想未來我想我們有更多更多臺灣更多的醫療專業的職員這是臺灣的一個要珍貴的因為我們的訓練百年來就是讓我們怎麼樣關懷人民"},{"start":9686.351,"end":9713.483,"text":"所以這中間我還是因為我算是今天應該是很榮幸又有機會來這邊發言應該是我在立法院最後一次公開發言我在這邊還是要表達說臺灣過去百年來醫療人員對人民對社會的一個貢獻那現在的一個制度方面我們也希望未來怎麼樣改善一個更好的醫療環境那藉著這樣的一個疫情的一個疫後我們就"},{"start":9714.394,"end":9715.814,"text":"我上次也有建議其實在後疫情時代"},{"start":9743.749,"end":9769.182,"text":"我們怎麼樣其實世界各國都在善待醫事人員投入必要的醫療資源因為他們都站在疫情當中守護人民的健康第二個就是說如果在健保方面也是臺灣的蠻力度高但是對醫療人員是承擔比較重如果總而沒有辦法隨醫療需求來承受是不是應該要怎麼樣來健康投資這個是我們未來以後要嚴肅面對的問題"},{"start":9771.82,"end":9791.62,"text":"第三個在基層醫療社區醫療怎麼樣加強他們的量能跟數位的能力我想以後未來我希望建設一個健康台灣裡面這幾點都可以請我們執政部團隊未來好好的針對這個來努力那我也希望執政團隊把這個內陸記錄將來"},{"start":9794.714,"end":9821.164,"text":"這是議界的心聲當然最後一個小小的請求就是我們112年第二季第三季平均點子0.9但是其實希望在二三季都能不動浮動點子因為有些平均點子還是有些點子會不到0.9還是很辛苦那診所只要沒有到0.9它其實是很難經營下去這個也拜託行政院這邊也在後續再繼續的一個努力請問下一張"},{"start":9822.406,"end":9838.293,"text":"最後雖然今天有三個主題但是我希望不要影響到我們對防疫的成果臺灣的努力臺灣人的光榮衷心感謝防疫工作的研發政策研擬實務防疫的團隊及全民的支持跟配合感謝大家 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝邱委員接下來請王委員 洪威執行"},{"start":9859.315,"end":9859.575,"text":"王委員 早安"},{"start":9884.281,"end":9911.177,"text":"院長先請教剛才您回答邱太元委員的時候您有特別提到那兩個市長就是疫情的時間沒有做好請問一下你所指的兩位市長是指哪兩位當然就是臺北市的市長跟新北市的市長在當時萬華地區產生了這一些老人茶室產生的傷口的情況你認為萬華是破口嗎"},{"start":9912.628,"end":9927.473,"text":"最主要的情況呢在當時的這個事件一發生的時候呢你剛才講的說講的是臺北市跟新北市長就是講柯文哲和侯友宜是吧是啊他們是在當市長對"},{"start":9929.827,"end":9947.502,"text":"剛才因為在之前幾個在答詢裡面院長認為今天的臨時會是跟選舉有關但是我覺得在這個場合院長特別針對另外兩個現在總統候選人去指控我覺得這是行政不中立"},{"start":9948.223,"end":9948.763,"text":"我是講事實委員我會回答嗎"},{"start":9967.975,"end":9969.376,"text":"主席 我可不可以質詢 可以嗎 來"},{"start":9983.503,"end":10007.795,"text":"因為這個問題蠻重要因為剛才我也有注意到我們賴世保委員也特別提到了也就是高端的合約能不能公開那麼因為我們現在的說法是因為這是廠商要求那麼廠商沒有同意那可能包含院長跟我們那個王必勝署長可能講法不一樣說要股東會董事會好不管"},{"start":10008.855,"end":10018.902,"text":"我們政府的說法是因為這是要看高端就是廠商願不願意同意但是在110年5月30號"},{"start":10025.006,"end":10047.964,"text":"因為高端是上櫃公司他發表重訊提到說有關於限制條款是依採購機關要求合約其他細節不予公開剛才賴世寶委員有特別問到這件事情對不對那薛部長的回答是說他要怎麼講他也沒有問過我們政府所以部長我請問他這個說法是正確的還是錯誤的"},{"start":10053.206,"end":10054.806,"text":"所以部長很明確的告訴我們這個重訊的訊息是錯誤的是不是"},{"start":10078.95,"end":10082.273,"text":"請教因為我剛特別提到他的重訓時間是民國110年5月30號已經長達兩年半這樣錯誤的訊息請問一下"},{"start":10095.046,"end":10111.502,"text":"我們的衛福部是否曾經要求他更動或者曾經去告他說你這個根本是錯誤的訊息衛福部有沒有做這些事我們在那個之後就發文給這個高端請他來公開合約"},{"start":10112.683,"end":10114.284,"text":"所以我要問一件事來 部長"},{"start":10134.977,"end":10153.379,"text":"既然這個訊息是錯誤的為什麼衛福部在這麼長的時間裡面沒有去告高端你都去告立委了你為什麼不告高端不敢告嗎我為什麼要去告高端因為那個不是我們的權責"},{"start":10154.72,"end":10171.442,"text":"這個就是錯誤訊息啊他錯誤訊息有主管機關可以去處理好來來來為什麼把金管會主委找來了所以你把你不敢告高端現在請那個主管機關那請問一下我們金管會主委這樣錯誤訊息我們有去處罰他嗎有去處分他嗎"},{"start":10172.415,"end":10177.259,"text":"那所以我今天在這個質詢裡面衛福部長說這個是錯誤的但是衛福部不去告他金管會會處理嗎當時並沒有特別人指出當時所以貴買中心對我現在直接說那現在金管會會立刻去處理嗎讓證交所去罰他"},{"start":10201.786,"end":10202.106,"text":"部長為什麼要請您上來?"},{"start":10229.554,"end":10254.347,"text":"我就認為在高端的合約已經引起這麼嚴重的爭議那麼大家舉國都在覺得說為什麼不公開連賴清德現在我們的副總統我們的民進黨的總統候選人都說他覺得應該公開啊可是現在呢我們整個行政院把賴副總統的話當成空氣一樣他現在從講完今天已經第10天了"},{"start":10255.367,"end":10277.961,"text":"到現在為止也沒有公開我們開臨時會還是不公開那我就覺得非常不解我們到底在怕高端什麼連這樣違反這個違反根本是錯誤而且損害政府威信的訊息也沒有人在處理所以部長你在這邊我直接的要求我們法務部去調查今天衛福部有沒有獨職"},{"start":10279.122,"end":10280.443,"text":"王國元你要不要去告"},{"start":10305.377,"end":10318.294,"text":"這不是法務部的職責對於有沒有涉及刑事責任是由檢調機關他們來負責所以法務部是負責行政業務過去我知道檢查機關也曾經調查過"},{"start":10320.717,"end":10323.238,"text":"相關的案件有63件之多"},{"start":10337.281,"end":10357.792,"text":"我真的覺得很奇怪我們政府為什麼對高端這樣的莫可奈何到底在怕高端什麼所以我剛剛講我們學院院部長都敢告立委為什麼不告高端我是你我立刻告高端亂講話怎麼說是我不讓你公開明明是你高端說不能公開好再來看一下時間"},{"start":10361.357,"end":10383.031,"text":"高端昨天也又發布訟訊 裡面畢仁在下我也在裡面他說他要提告我提告我跟另外三位候選人說談到有股東名冊的問題我時間有限 我今天就不請經濟部長上來我覺得真的笑死人"},{"start":10384.284,"end":10400.399,"text":"你們不要天天怕高端 高端只會爛速股東名冊去查一下銀行法銀行法裡面210條清清楚楚的告訴你股東名冊可以怎麼取得我想搞不好蔡部長是清楚的"},{"start":10401.419,"end":10424.985,"text":"所以對於高端這樣不敢公開只會濫訴的一家公司然後呢我們對他予取予求所以我就在想你高端到底是何方神聖那我想請問一下我們陳部長部長你當時在2016年的時候您有跟蔡英文總統搭檔那時候你是副總統候選人"},{"start":10426.405,"end":10447.997,"text":"您有收受過高端或高端股東或高端他們之前的前公司前身等等的政治獻金嗎有嗎沒有啊我根本我只是參加高端的臨床實驗而已你沒有嘛對不對沒有我在這邊也幫你背書我查過了您沒有但是啊來看一下我剛才講"},{"start":10452.708,"end":10474.212,"text":"高端的股東名冊並不難取得根據相關的法律是可以取得這個是之前侯漢廷議員所公布的相關的高端股東的捐款這個大概就是所有政治人物所以我剛才說我幫陳建仁院長也背書我們查過了"},{"start":10478.734,"end":10498.613,"text":"當時2016年您參加副總統是候選人那一次你們沒有接受過高端的任何的政治獻金但是在2020年蔡英文總統賴清德副總統就有接受到高端股東的政治捐獻可以看看這裡面洋洋灑灑"},{"start":10500.434,"end":10523.136,"text":"這裡面包含縣市長 包含立法委員 包含議員高端股東有4萬多人你這4萬多人你再怎麼去找還是找到有一些願意做政治獻金的人你這樣單挑高端股東這樣來講我覺得是不公平這是剛才部長跟你咬耳朵我要講的是我不解的是為什麼今天我們都召開臨時會了"},{"start":10524.938,"end":10546.711,"text":"召開臨時會是正確的雖然馬上過幾天確實就有大選但是在立法院召開臨時會這本來就是一個民主國家民主政治的程序然後我們所有的立法委員比如像邱太元委員他覺得他非常珍惜今天的質詢我看了也非常感動"},{"start":10547.711,"end":10548.211,"text":"我可以回答嗎"},{"start":10568.493,"end":10568.893,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10585.607,"end":10587.928,"text":"政府誠信很重要但是政府的威信也很重要我剛才特別提"},{"start":10611.86,"end":10628.445,"text":"所以政府的微信我們有跟高端講我跟高端講希望高端能夠來公開沒有怕高端啦這家公司沒有怕他為什麼要讓他予取予求沒有讓他予取予求你如果這樣講我就你如果這樣兇我就不同意了"},{"start":10628.925,"end":10629.105,"text":"法務部長"},{"start":10649.852,"end":10664.947,"text":"法務部長我想請教一下在之前我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦副院長他有涉及他就是影射他的就是帶女人開房間的這個影片外流我們也在司法法治委員會裡面討論過我想請問這個案子結案了嗎"},{"start":10668.987,"end":10694.686,"text":"應該還沒有 因為在檢察機關偵查中是 它是偵查中案件 對不對對那但是呢鄭文燦那個影片後來刑事局他有他的整個的檢驗結果說是不是身為製作 對不對有沒有公布還包括調查局也有他做鑑定所以他們兩個偵查單位他們也是把成果有報到地檢署"},{"start":10695.216,"end":10700.04,"text":"但無論如何鄭文燦他的影片他的檢驗結果是公布了剛才部長也說這是偵查中案件同樣的"},{"start":10725.299,"end":10745.582,"text":"今天我們立委羅智政委員他的涉及性愛影片現在事實上調查局已經完成了檢驗可是呢地檢署調查局說這是偵查中案件不能公布那為什麼同樣鄭文燦要公布然後羅智政不公布"},{"start":10747.137,"end":10756.932,"text":"這是什麼標準?都沒有公布,都沒有正式的對外公布,如果在檢察官的偵查當中,檢察官他會受到偵查不公開的檢查"},{"start":10760.16,"end":10784.785,"text":"鄭文燦自己都公布了他自己都公布了所以我要講的是所以我一直在講說國家有國家的制度所以如果今天鄭文燦的影片他也是偵查中案件他可以公布為什麼羅志政的影片要以說偵查中案件不公開那這個就有隱瞞的問題"},{"start":10815.177,"end":10816.918,"text":"謝謝王委員 接下來請蔡委員試應質詢"},{"start":10835.717,"end":10862.792,"text":"感謝院長能不能請我們陳建仁陳院長就備訓台謝謝院長請蔡委員午安院長好我剛才聽了這個我們國民黨委員的質詢尤其最後一段非常的無裡頭啦在問關於這個AV的事情我跟院長講一下最近我聽到一個笑話跟我講說現在只要在台灣打AV後面連結就是國民黨"},{"start":10863.937,"end":10890.92,"text":"為什麼因為大家會想到說原來上國民黨網站就可以看到關於AV的很多相關資訊我認為說選舉剩下沒有幾天的時間任何一個政黨他應該是要就他的國家政策提出藍圖出來而不是在講什麼AV的事情所以我覺得真的是這是華天下之大績啦好那今天的重點是在於我們整個高端解密的相關的問題我想先請教一下院長我的第一個問題就是說"},{"start":10892.469,"end":10893.931,"text":"臺灣跟哪幾家公司簽訂了疫苗採購合約?"},{"start":10908.274,"end":10916.18,"text":"臨亞有沒有簽訂臨亞當時是因為他有參加臨床試驗所以應該也有嘛對不對也有簽但是那個簽的就是補助他的臨床試驗到臨床試驗而起失敗部長在旁邊我想請教一下您當時擔任的職位是市長嗎政務市長市長來"},{"start":10937.737,"end":10946.322,"text":"政府次長我想請教一下這幾家簽訂合約的公司對不對齁都有沒有簽所謂的保密條款有都有有為什麼"},{"start":10947.162,"end":10949.403,"text":"所以其實大多數跟我們政府簽訂的疫苗採購的合約商"},{"start":10972.645,"end":10988.078,"text":"基於剛才部長講的幾個原則第一個是整個生產的配方第二個就是生產提供交貨的數量及交貨的流程我想請教一下部長就你的專業來判斷為什麼這幾件事情要把它保密起來"},{"start":10989.429,"end":11008.073,"text":"因為這些東西如果洩漏出去的話第一個就是會妨礙他公司在跟其他國家簽的那個價格等等這些的價格或者是採購的速度嘛 時程嘛 對不對會影響到 所以"},{"start":11009.335,"end":11031.741,"text":"如果他洩露出去的話 比方說他跟我們的價格是一個那跟越南的價格是一個 這就互相去做比較那他們公司會受到一些壓力對 或者是說每個地方不同的價格 但是也有不同的交貨的時程那這些事情其實在當下 在做判斷的時間其實是非常短暫的"},{"start":11033.441,"end":11054.309,"text":"當時我記得部長或者我們行政院的團隊在跟相關單位在做或者之前陳時中陳部長在做談判的過程當中可能你可能只有一兩天的考慮時間你如果不談廠商可能就下單給別的國家別的國家可能就去更好的價格去談了而且在這過程當中我們對於其他國家採購疫苗的價格能夠窒息嗎"},{"start":11056.312,"end":11081.413,"text":"你會知道嗎?其實也困難嘛,我們完全不知道委員我也跟你報告一下啦實際上是這樣這個疫苗的價格是完全要看他什麼時候採購比如說我要是first prioritytop priority去採購當然我的價格就要高嘛等我到大量量產的時候的採購當然就會低而且這些廠商也都會考慮到不同的國家的需要性按照他的"},{"start":11081.874,"end":11082.154,"text":"主席"},{"start":11098.996,"end":11100.557,"text":"這完全是莫名其妙的一件事情"},{"start":11128.894,"end":11144.097,"text":"好那剛才部長跟院長講得清楚這些相關的合約都有保密的條款那能不能請我們部長或院長說明一下這些保密條款分別是幾年我講大家民眾非常關心的啦我一個問你就告訴我就好"},{"start":11145.148,"end":11163.518,"text":"第一個大家最關心的就是高端的合約是保密條款幾年5年5年是從2020年還是2021年開始算最後交貨最後交貨5年所以大概就是去年往後去年再往後算在2027年左右吧是不是還是2028差不多在110 116年116年就是2027年"},{"start":11166.838,"end":11195.587,"text":"這是第一個是高端五年嘛好那AZ的話幾年AZ的話也是五年AZ也是五年齁算一樣的話交貨最後一天開始算五年嘛好那另外就是莫德納莫德納幾年莫德納他不同意解密所以莫德納不同意解密所以五年六年後也是不能夠解密就對了對好那另外就是BNT勒BNT十年BNT十年那我就很奇怪了為什麼在野黨沒有來質疑BNT啊"},{"start":11200.284,"end":11215.47,"text":"這幾個東西的採購我不曉得能不能講單價最貴的是誰單價最貴的就是比高端貴的大概就是莫德納、BNT這兩個都更貴那怎麼沒有人質疑說BNT這麼貴為什麼政府沒有跟他砍價"},{"start":11216.929,"end":11244.044,"text":"感覺好像這些質疑的人好像沒有人提這個質疑是不是那些人那些人可能跟BNT有勾結囉是不是這個樣子我不知道啊如果要質疑的話我也會質疑啊當時有些人在有當時有些人在push BNT說BNT很好是不是他們是買BNT的股票BNT股票輝瑞也是可以買啊美國的股票就可以買啦那這樣我是不是可以來質疑說請法務部來調查一下台灣有哪一些人去買了輝瑞的股票"},{"start":11245.767,"end":11268.967,"text":"這個邏輯不同吧 部長對 沒有錯那當時在預定要買莫德納等這些AZ的時候的話我們在編列預算的時候都是用一計700塊去編列預算的所以那個700塊的原流是這裡但是後來買到的價格當然就不一樣因為每個廠商提供的"},{"start":11269.768,"end":11285.673,"text":"致詢或者他告訴他的研發成本或者不然就排隊等就像說等到現在買我想一季不用70塊就是這個差別所以我想這第一個要讓國人知道就是說在那個非常短暫的時間點做一個重要的政府官員在做決策是非常困難的"},{"start":11287.287,"end":11306.998,"text":"怎麼樣盡量能夠保衛住國人的健康然後做這樣的決策在預算的可行範圍內我老實講用現在的角度來看那個時間點我覺得是非常苛責沒有道理所以我剛才才會跟部長院長說如果要會講我也會講說現在買更便宜但現在沒有人需要好但是另外我有第二個問題要來請教一下院長跟部長我們的國家隊的問題院長跟部長1922已經停掉了"},{"start":11315.35,"end":11316.591,"text":"對阿我知道是結束所以現在多少人接電話"},{"start":11343.715,"end":11354.062,"text":"如果這樣我請教一下,你們說還留著,我知道是沒有啦就說邊人很少了啦齁我為什麼問這件事情的原因是因為我想請教一下院長跟部長齁最近疫情是不是又起來了"},{"start":11355.026,"end":11355.506,"text":"那我想請教一下院長"},{"start":11383.758,"end":11390.57,"text":"J1在台灣目前有沒有發現案例?那這些案例應該都不是本土還是境外移入的?"},{"start":11397.493,"end":11399.074,"text":"有些國家的疫情似乎又升溫的現象"},{"start":11421.73,"end":11444.672,"text":"這樣的生活現象對於這些國家來台灣的飛機我想請問一下院長有沒有考慮要升高他的防疫檢疫的等級我們目前的話也是知道哪一些國家呢他的疫情的狀況比較嚴重所以呢疾病管制署呢已經針對著這些特定的國家呢進來的時候呢就會加強的一個體溫的測量還有加強這一個症狀的"},{"start":11445.493,"end":11445.513,"text":"臨時委員："},{"start":11466.55,"end":11470.232,"text":"因為剛才部長跟院長提到說有新採購了XBB的疫苗對不對對已經開始打了沒有有已經開始打自費還是公費"},{"start":11497.412,"end":11498.473,"text":"我會建議一下院長跟部長在機場設"},{"start":11526.946,"end":11545.262,"text":"為什麼我們出國的人通常在飛機場要等一到兩個小時以上對不對有那個時間當天就設一個疫苗站那邊很多人都會跑去打疫苗比他跑去醫院打我覺得更方便這第一個第二件事情出國回來進來台灣的人你跟他講可以先打一下疫苗"},{"start":11546.508,"end":11574.849,"text":"我覺得這兩件事情可以給院長跟部長考慮一下擴大我們的施打範圍跟施打率我覺得講這件事情比原比講那個什麼該國民黨開記者會AB的記者會來得更重要才對好那但是在這邊我還是要拜託一下我們的院長跟部長剛才我提到的1922的防疫專線以及第二件事情地方基層醫療院所因為這件事情執行業務衍生的費用我要拜託院長跟部長我覺得這是非常重要的一件事情"},{"start":11576.807,"end":11600.576,"text":"過去這兩年的過程當中我們看到1922的專線確實發揮了穩定人心的一個重要性那我也遇到打電話有去打電話向行政院或衛福在談的事情的人他有聊到另外一個重要議題就是說他覺得好像行政院本身就沒有一個專屬的這樣的一個客服的電話地方政府有1999但中央政府沒有"},{"start":11601.92,"end":11620.144,"text":"中央政府沒有所以我知道說當時在1922打這件事有很多人關於政府的一些相關的議題也都透過1922詢問比如說紓困等等的內容等等為什麼呢因為我遇到這些人有跟我講說他們透過1922詢問的內容的準確度比他們問1999地方政府來得更準"},{"start":11621.209,"end":11641.284,"text":"因為很多地方政府也搞不清楚狀況就跟他說你可能要問中央什麼都推給中央就對了然後好的就說是他的不懂的說推給中央就說中央宣導的不大夠我們也不知道你要問中央政府每次都跟地方政府這樣講我認為這個是非常不公平的一件事情但我認為沒關係中央政府我們就扛起來"},{"start":11644.611,"end":11663.826,"text":"這就是我們跟他們不一樣的地方所以我建議1922這樣的一個系統維持是不是行政院把它檢討一下未來就作為常設性中央政府的一個組織單位關於紓困疫苗等等只要中政府管的事情的內容我覺得都可以能夠讓民眾打電話來問讓他們來了解"},{"start":11665.765,"end":11683.522,"text":"我相信對於解決民間的很多問題民眾的質疑會很有幫助啦否則部長部長我們這邊講了老半天如果看的人只有一萬人看到可能還有另外的好幾百萬人沒有看到啊他還是會同樣的問題繼續來詢問那他如果看到網路上不確實的言論他就以為那是真的啊我們剛剛說不用"},{"start":11684.284,"end":11702.574,"text":"有問題打1922問我們的行政院最準啊所以我認為這是一個非常好一個所謂解釋疑慮的一個管道像剛才我們部長提到的每個合約都有保密期限高端最短欸他們為什麼不要質疑BNT啊我也覺得很奇怪為什麼不要質疑莫德納"},{"start":11703.773,"end":11731.583,"text":"所以我的意思就是說這些事情其實就是要講給民眾知道所以我在這邊拜託一下院長我第二個問題就是說我們的1922專線還有第二個就是醫療基層醫療他們的相關的一個工作的費用我覺得要來增加了因為這幾年我們可以看得到全球化的關係整個醫療或者疫情或者病毒的蔓延是非常跨國的而且我們事實上有時候看不到啊看不到這些疫苗"},{"start":11732.079,"end":11749.946,"text":"等到真的已經發生事情的時候都是透過我們的醫療單位來做協力來處理所以部長我建議就是說這件事情要把它列為非常重要的重點我相信醫師公會跟護理師公會也有跟還有藥師公會也有跟部長提過這個事情好不好"},{"start":11773.439,"end":11774.379,"text":"謝謝蔡委員接下來請吳委員施懷質詢"},{"start":11796.297,"end":11806.899,"text":"高端和衛福部互相踢皮球民眾跟媒體質疑的是到底誰不想公開"},{"start":11827.264,"end":11855.405,"text":"那麼薛部長你可以上來但是不要回答因為你剛才已經回答兩次你可以上台你說這是高端自己公司的公布與事實不符那麼媒體跟社會大眾心中自有評論你已經回答兩次兩個委員的質詢我要問的是既然它不是事實那就影響政府的威信"},{"start":11856.581,"end":11884.993,"text":"他是一個假訊息或者你們最喜歡用的是一個認知作戰那請問從5月20號5月30號公告到一年半以後面臨縣市長選舉了你們在111年的11月3號發了個函問他可否公布"},{"start":11887.335,"end":11897.037,"text":"你們跟高端之間需要用公文來來去去沒有聯絡沒有電話沒有人可以接觸嗎3號發了文他不理你"},{"start":11899.891,"end":11922.596,"text":"22號再發個文說再次詢問你們貴公司可否公開時隔一年半如果他是假的他說的是主管機關不同意如果是假的一年半不處理發兩個文以後我想請問部長一件事選舉前做這個動作縣市長選舉前"},{"start":11925.802,"end":11941.474,"text":"就是被質疑這是為了選情為了縣市長選舉操作那我現在問一個問題就好了你們在11月3號11月20號發兩次文給高端他有沒有回覆"},{"start":11950.434,"end":11962.364,"text":"政府威信何在他一家企業我告訴你我問你可以不可以你不行你回覆我不行依據什麼什麼行就行政府在幹什麼"},{"start":11963.966,"end":11991.286,"text":"這是政府的威信來 院長我們政府管不了一個企業嗎管不了一個公司嗎我想 委員你問得相當好我再重複一次實際上雙方簽訂契約的時候如果有簽訂了這一個保密的條款的時候那我們雙方都應該要來互相尊重你已經回答一個早上了保密條例 保密條款這些我沒有意見我問的是"},{"start":11992.335,"end":12015.501,"text":"我是政府你不過是一家企業我問你可不可以你要回覆我嗎你都不理你政府威信何在好我們再看我認為媒體質疑很多民眾質疑這是一個為了縣市長選舉的選舉操作當人家質疑你們的時候我們政府說我有發文給他是他沒有回答我"},{"start":12016.221,"end":12016.361,"text":"監察院"},{"start":12045.427,"end":12073.472,"text":"接著調查報告出來在時隔兩年了這個報告出來以後請問衛福部做了什麼事哪一個方面我們做很多事你做了很多事我們不知道我們是立法委員媒體不知道社會大眾不知道你做了什麼事所以委員在問的是哪一方面哪一方面就是講這個資訊不公開啊監察院的報告你沒看過嗎"},{"start":12075.129,"end":12100.078,"text":"你看過沒有嗎這個資訊不公開的部分的話就是合約的限制你又在談保密條款這個沒有錯因為政府跟一個民間的企業去簽了合約難道政府說我要用強力的公權力來違約嗎部長你等一下你不要講話我告訴你我不要再跟你談保密條款我們摘下來我在未還委員會第一第二會期我在那裡"},{"start":12101.175,"end":12125.063,"text":"我對這個事情非常清楚我們一再的要求你們那時候口風緊得不得了說什麼都是不可以不可以要怎麼樣怎麼樣好 到現在了110年5月30號高端這個出來了我們還在追照樣不理我們到了一年半以後你們發兩個文縣市長選舉了還剩幾天了"},{"start":12129.814,"end":12157.509,"text":"請他是否可以公開他不理你我現在才知道發兩個結論是他沒回覆你這是政府的威信嗎然後到現在我在外國委員會看過你們提供的資料那時候你還沒當部長塗黑的將近三分之二看的跟沒看一樣這是你們當初的心態"},{"start":12158.897,"end":12168.865,"text":"內清德總統候選人說應該要公開了整個態度批辯那我中間再問一個重要的問題政府權責的問題你這個約裡面到底有沒有除外條款部長你知不知道"},{"start":12189.716,"end":12210.451,"text":"除外條款指的是說什麼時候是可以揭露的嗎對在這一個好像是司法機關在調查的時候我們是可以揭露但是他有一些條件 有沒有除外條款我問有沒有有有那今天這個狀況"},{"start":12212.83,"end":12236.756,"text":"全民都在質疑社會大眾質疑媒體質疑在野黨所有的委員都在質疑有沒有弊案有沒有後面還有等下我問的錄音檔的問題那麼他就是符合除外條款沒有這個案子再等一下我們叫你回答是有可能我沒有說一定有可能有重大弊案"},{"start":12237.748,"end":12238.729,"text":"除外條款的定義是不是這樣"},{"start":12263.305,"end":12279.133,"text":"如果有例外的情形當然就可以來遵照辦理有可能有五重大五必要或者其他影響人民生命安全的這種可能就除外條款就必須生效就法律的定義是不是這樣子"},{"start":12280.27,"end":12305.72,"text":"那我們要看契約還有來比照相關的規定我告訴你全民的認識是這樣有可能發生除外條款生效就拿出來公開現在我不跟你追這個除外條款如果要公開的時候要應用它要公開的時候我們要預先通知當然它有一定的行政程序院長你放心我在公部門40多年"},{"start":12308.823,"end":12331.879,"text":"公布門執行任何事情要有一定的行政程序你剛才也講過我清楚但是我自己問的是有沒有除外條款薛部長說有我就問法務部長除外條款的定義是不是假如有這些可能發生除外條款就應該生效就可以引用除外條款來公開對不對我有沒有說錯"},{"start":12334.5,"end":12361.939,"text":"沒有錯錯但是還是要讓要有一個讓對方通知對方當然當然這是行政程序但是在我們整個對於這一個公開的合約的這件事情我們是覺得說如果能夠雙方能夠達成合意然後一起來公開那是最好但是如果沒有我們這一個局外條款就可以使用我告訴你的是到現在為止是政府對高端一籌莫展"},{"start":12362.634,"end":12391.307,"text":"什麼事情都是高端說的算我們要求發公文他不理我我不回答你奈何不了我現在我們看到的嘛一個早上你的回應除了民進黨級的委員拼命做球給你拼命罵在野黨之外其他人的質詢你都是這種回答所以不需要再說我現在說賴清德副總統現在的總統候選人說應該公開了10天了"},{"start":12392.432,"end":12393.112,"text":"這是他們說的 不是我說的"},{"start":12414.807,"end":12416.089,"text":"我不贊成這樣的講法這是不正確的消息"},{"start":12427.506,"end":12455.945,"text":"你不贊成我沒有意見你當然不贊成但是這是我告訴你這是媒體的反應這些人說的話但是11天了你們到底想不想公開想公開今天開臨時會差一點開不成開不成是因為簽名還沒有簽滿啊對你們想公開我跟委員講得很清楚我今天早上的報告講得很清楚賴副總統想公開政府也"},{"start":12457.056,"end":12458.256,"text":"當這個賴副總統一講了這個話之後薛部長你在上班時間到競選總部去有這張照片"},{"start":12487.396,"end":12505.064,"text":"這是媒體看的不是我講的啊他不是假新聞啊事由這個事你去看什麼人家就說你是政府的官員他是競選總部政務官不要說政務官了所有政府體系的人都應該在選舉中保持行政中立法務部長對不對"},{"start":12506.502,"end":12514.486,"text":"我們是去找柯建銘總召談今天要開臨時會的事件柯總召早上在這邊走來走去委員其實是沒有來要不然你直接問他就知道"},{"start":12533.823,"end":12562.233,"text":"所以實際上這個指鹿為馬不是指鹿為馬等一下 薛部長你跟柯總召兩個人講的話誰能證明我們今天要取信於民嘛那我告訴你的是在場還有一位洪森漢委員你去問他我不要去問他對啊 你又不確證你把這三個人叫出來你把這種東西污衊我我不是污衊你"},{"start":12562.913,"end":12567.517,"text":"我把網路的事情告訴你網路的笑話不是我講的說說這個政府官員去競選總部見這些重要幹部是去篡政"},{"start":12589.85,"end":12608.985,"text":"錯誤的網路錯了網路錯了網路錯網路錯沒關係 薛部長你必須用事實去證明你沒有做這些事有人做夢他有做夢的權利我沒有解夢的義務好 但是你有權利也有義務有責任證明"},{"start":12611.792,"end":12611.912,"text":"主席"},{"start":12626.663,"end":12632.449,"text":"國會黨說要開臨時會就是很緊急的事情所以大家趕快去那裡討論嘛我沒有這樣講我沒有講我這是網路說的我也沒有說你的人格有問題我都沒有說"},{"start":12646.044,"end":12651.754,"text":"委員這是我網路是錯的這是指路為矛的事情當時談的就是說會議院要開臨時會這件事情最後的時間我問一件事"},{"start":12660.017,"end":12679.086,"text":"我們在未還委員會的時候第一第二會期我們提了很多案針對高端的問題針對人民健康的問題針對有沒有圖利的問題我們提了10個案通通被民進黨封殺第一個我們要一個月內擴大採購WHO認證的疫苗4000萬劑提案被封殺我們人數表決不過"},{"start":12684.449,"end":12711.628,"text":"公開3加11完整的會議記錄沒有公開等下我講完嘛第三個國產高端疫苗的緊急使用授權審查我們要求我們的提案應該比照美國FDA全程直播公開也被封殺所以這個就是民進黨執政黨的態度我們讓全民來檢查讓媒體來看好不好委員要世界維生"},{"start":12730.029,"end":12736.922,"text":"好 謝謝吳委員報告宴會上午執行到此為止下午2點30分繼續專案報告就執行現在休息"},{"start":21618.479,"end":21632.304,"text":"報告委員會 現在繼續開會對行政院院長專案報告繼續質詢紅委員 孫漢志質詢以書面提出請行政院以書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報現在請由委員預覽質詢"},{"start":21644.641,"end":21646.944,"text":"謝謝院長 有請行政院陳院長陳院長請"},{"start":21654.912,"end":21657.553,"text":"保密條款的文字內容我等一下的看一下"},{"start":21685.345,"end":21686.246,"text":"保密條款的文字內容請"},{"start":21701.632,"end":21704.473,"text":"本合約所謂機密性資料具包括採購的單價、原物料價格等商業採購相關訊息取得的方式"},{"start":21725.253,"end":21735.187,"text":"包括不限於口頭、文字、書寫、錄音等等那機密性資料取得之日期不論其為本合約簽署日之前或之後均屬之"},{"start":21736.485,"end":21738.007,"text":"蔡總統拍了一部小電影還蠻好看的有"},{"start":21757.984,"end":21787.075,"text":"有看了嗎對那因為現在不是只有蔡總統在路上蔡總統還在錄音帶上所以我才會接下來要請教一下因為我們法務部其實在去年年底就已經講了說他依照這個他們最高檢就從去年的12月11日到今年1月5日子全權處理全國性重大假訊息案件而且會指派主任檢察官"},{"start":21788.082,"end":21802.434,"text":"與檢察官負責偵辦,針對影響選舉的假訊息,執法部門、法務部、地檢署、調查局,要立即澄清,迅速下架,溯源追查主權。"},{"start":21811.823,"end":21819.571,"text":"蔡總統的小電影叫《在路上》可是現在變成《在路應帶上》因為最近我們看到我們"},{"start":21820.868,"end":21843.056,"text":"的同事羅智政委員：他被公布的有各種不同的不同的這個資料影音資料有A片的也有裡面就是影射可能是跟蔡總統的對話這些我覺得這個是知識體大知識體大不管是真是假"},{"start":21844.056,"end":21866.209,"text":"這不符合我剛剛念的你們在一開始的時候要有一個打假的假訊息的這個迅速偵辦中心的這個你們重要的意志不是嗎是沒錯吧對不對所以你就不可以說這個是個人隱私啦這是私德問題這已經不是因為"},{"start":21868.306,"end":21875.318,"text":"雖然我跟蔡總統不屬於同一個黨派但是他是我的國家元首"},{"start":21876.021,"end":21900.088,"text":"我覺得當它被人家錄音我現在還搞不清楚我還搞不清楚這個錄音帶的內容的真假等等的可是因為裡面有一些內容我知道這也是我們在國防外交委員會常常聽到比如說羅志政委員有時候也會談起的但是我會擔心啊羅志政委員他是當過國防外交委員會的"},{"start":21902.034,"end":21908.999,"text":"這件事情當然是相當的重要所以我今天早上已經講得很清楚這一件事情的話我們完全支持我們檢調單位要來的積極查辦"},{"start":21930.086,"end":21946.617,"text":"並且很快的來掌握相關的這個報導那與殷黨的內容是不是有透露身為或者涉及這個借選都要由鑑識機關來進行相關的鑑識那這個這件事情是相當的重要我相信部長也有這樣的一個看法"},{"start":21947.376,"end":21968.739,"text":"對 我是建議絕對不可以就是因為我們說就像破唱盤一樣跳針一樣說中共借選你用一個中共借選你就遮掩掉很多我們政府該作為而不作為我們自己不認真辦案這個是我再怎麼樣我都無法忍受的沒有 我覺得他們沒有不認真辦案我是支持他們要"},{"start":21969.246,"end":21969.446,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":21987.601,"end":22016.393,"text":"這件事情對他們是謠言的話我們趕快把千萬不要像過去吳敦義的這個錄音帶風波等到這個查出來之後都說這個是假的時候他都已經落選都已經變成制定的現實現在的這個身為的做法相當的多五發八門所以在鑑識的工作上我們也會積極來努力那更重要的就是"},{"start":22016.909,"end":22034.456,"text":"我們在打造這個行動方案行動綱領1.5的時候有構置了一些儀器設備能夠做更精準的這樣的一個鑑識的工作那還有追查這個訊息來源所以這個部分我相信"},{"start":22034.875,"end":22059.993,"text":"我們檢調單位還有這個新市警察局也會來好好的來偵辦所以剛剛院長講到重點身為的技術雖然不斷升高可是倒高一尺磨高一丈但是我們希望現在是磨高一尺我們倒要高好幾丈才可以所以一定要支持包括我們第一線的檢調警都要有足夠的工具"},{"start":22060.373,"end":22060.833,"text":"委員長 部長 支持第一線員警"},{"start":22088.012,"end":22113.315,"text":"有責任的人也要有權利而不要因為有太多政治的考量現在因為這個選舉期間暫時不要有的時候就是要神速我們就是很快的把這個事情他是假訊息馬上公布的話至少不會繼續擴大否則其實我的同事羅志正我覺得他現在也一定很頭痛因為哇"},{"start":22114.556,"end":22134.807,"text":"一下子錄音帶一下子A片然後現在聽說又有20支高清的袋子我覺得對他來講這我們應該減掉要勇敢的負起責任而且我要在這裡跟委員報告就是說我們這個建設的這個設備基本上在很多媒體上都錯誤報導說我們打造1.5的行動綱領"},{"start":22137.928,"end":22142.073,"text":"臨北郝游案件及黨工一千個帳號我們都能夠這樣查出來所以我們會積極來偵辦這件事情查個水落石出"},{"start":22156.067,"end":22157.808,"text":"我們也要請院長跟部長要承諾"},{"start":22170.928,"end":22170.948,"text":"好"},{"start":22199.366,"end":22217.368,"text":"高端是全民買單立委是國防外交委員會包括趙天寧委員的那個小三豐富也是一樣的政府跟司法單位不可以明目張膽的去護短這個我是完全同意的我們完全沒有護短而且我在這裡在跟委員報告"},{"start":22218.369,"end":22228.713,"text":"政府的誠信很重要政府的威信很重要但是政府威信的建立不是像在威權獨裁國家那樣子的壓迫軍機各個企業這樣的話沒有辦法政府有簽約就要維持自己的誠信"},{"start":22237.997,"end":22254.492,"text":"院長我300%同意我們一定要有捍衛我們民主法治的這樣的決心跟能力但是我們絕對不可以用中國界選為藉口然後進行司法界選之時中國有沒有界選的話還需要偵查啦"},{"start":22257.333,"end":22278.155,"text":"還要去偵查當然啦但是有先偵查的就很奇怪啦因為所有的身為的製造我們如果查到這個來源也許是從境外進來的那當然就要跟就像我剛才講的那個林北好遊就是這樣查到境外去再查回來的還有那個黨工的一千個帳號也是這樣查出來的"},{"start":22278.615,"end":22279.035,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":22296.149,"end":22296.81,"text":"我們是一定勿忘勿重"},{"start":22319.13,"end":22322.413,"text":"但是 但是 所有的所有的里長一回來只要到中國大陸回來的話也未免害也未免"},{"start":22340.532,"end":22341.013,"text":"本席即將卸任"},{"start":22359.036,"end":22359.416,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":22380.877,"end":22381.317,"text":"因為預估了"},{"start":22407.893,"end":22408.593,"text":"最後的精算"},{"start":22425.319,"end":22426.321,"text":"我們已經有公布了 有公布了相關單位可以參考"},{"start":22444.104,"end":22446.347,"text":"沒有遠高於大概0.2個百分點"},{"start":22459.09,"end":22459.45,"text":"一年兩點五"},{"start":22480.486,"end":22480.546,"text":"主席"},{"start":22503.412,"end":22526.563,"text":"法律不是這樣寫的啦法律沒有分年齡GPI在那個原來的法律裡面是寫說所以我們可以修法嘛我們可以修法因為你退休退休期就是屬於高竟然要修嘛因為本席本來也希望說你們能夠稍微更敏感一點這些都是我們當時在在這個立法院裡面"},{"start":22527.223,"end":22544.853,"text":"這是年改本來就有的法 修的法來照顧退休的軍公教人員最後當然我時間已經快要用完我還是很關心在死刑存廢上的這些爭論因為我們看到了新北的那個國中生"},{"start":22545.453,"end":22559.351,"text":"他在被狂砍十幾刀之後他那天第一天他送到醫院就輸血就是6萬CC我希望我們的少年事件處理法一定要有配套措施要讓孩子們能夠在"},{"start":22574.673,"end":22579.216,"text":"好 謝謝余委員接下來請莊委員瑞雄質詢謝謝院長有請我們行政院陳建仁陳院長院長請我們衛福部我們薛部長莊委員午安院長午安我想今天這個議題就是關於整個"},{"start":22604.168,"end":22630.268,"text":"今天整個一個臨時會我有很大的一個感慨這個其實在針對我們在相同的地方院會針對整個疫苗專案報告跟指定議題的報告就有三次三次委員會這個我相信薛副長你也最清楚你們就有六次財政委員會六次是釣魚小組"},{"start":22631.889,"end":22639.335,"text":"財政委員會疫苗專報2次經濟委員會1次國安委員會關於疫苗的專報就12次很感激在2022年11月26日九合一的大選到現在2月沒有人要說這個選舉剩4、5天"},{"start":22660.766,"end":22677.701,"text":"這個很明顯就完全就是一個政治上的一個攻防但是本席還是認為說這個議題還是讓院長來講還是最適合因為院長畢竟是公衛出身其實在台灣經過這一場百年大議"},{"start":22678.769,"end":22705.7,"text":"那大家全體上下國人同胞有政府部門帶領那大家共同在團結在抗議我相信大家都盡心盡力的到了這個整個後疫情時代今天排這一場我還特別去問了媒體的朋友說你聽到現在你會覺得怎麼樣四個字冷飯熱炒炒得起來炒不起來不知道但是我要來救教院長就是說"},{"start":22707.688,"end":22736.401,"text":"我的好朋友秋選這間在質詢的時候有問到你一個問題就是說高端疫苗到底有沒有這個整個絕標的一個公告這樣的一個問題我聽了以後我會覺得院長必須要再澄清因為我擔心外面會有所誤解因為按照整個政府的一個採購法裡面涉及到整個機密採購的部分那個到未必會有一定要"},{"start":22737.645,"end":22758.861,"text":"這個決標的一個問題那是不是我很擔心就是說其他的疫苗到底有沒有決標上的公告那還有這早上院長這樣回答是口誤還是幕僚提供的資訊有錯誤的一個地方是不是請我們薛部長這個地方你來再做一個澄清好不好"},{"start":22760.232,"end":22776.08,"text":"謝謝委員這部分應該更精確來講開標、決標都按照程序來決標之後本來我們就是要把資料上傳到工程會的網站"},{"start":22778.325,"end":22804.897,"text":"但是根據政府採購法第61條跟它的施行細則第84條如果涉及到商業機密的這種機密採購的話那我們可以不公告機關可以不公告但是必須要將未刊登的這個絕標的資料傳到仍然要傳到工程會的這個資料庫裡面去"},{"start":22806.94,"end":22807.64,"text":"本席本身學法"},{"start":22834.96,"end":22855.038,"text":"那大家一直在談到說整個高端這個疫苗啊什麼這個整個契約啊要封存30年我聽到這個網絡都在說這個我聽到整個台港一台舖都兩粒大你知道嗎你也不曉得該怎麼樣去講說在台灣這樣的一個假訊期這樣蔓延以後啊機非到最後會成事啊所以不對"},{"start":22855.899,"end":22857.44,"text":"根據雙方的保密協定7月裏面的保密協定是5年"},{"start":22879.229,"end":22881.049,"text":"所以高端採購這樣的一個契約說這個契約30年要封存是一個假訊息 錯的訊息所以"},{"start":22905.95,"end":22926.337,"text":"如果說其他的疫苗的一個採購 你說AZ人不用保密 或是NOVAX不用保密 BNT不用保密 只有高端來保密 這有鬼囉 這我看來就有鬼囉但是如果其他 我就要請教的 BNT是幾年 BNT的話是10年"},{"start":22927.227,"end":22928.368,"text":"當初整個緊急授權EUA"},{"start":22957.287,"end":22973.258,"text":"你現在跟你說那些心渣的委員齁 那不記名在我來看 以現在來看當年的話如果說我是那個委員的話 我也會怕我若跟你投反對 國內需要疫苗 我壓力會大 等於說我在阻擋疫苗我若跟你投贊成 人家又會跟我說我是不是在圖利財團"},{"start":22987.41,"end":22997.428,"text":"這個我倒覺得反而也很麻煩在當時的一個時空背景之下那這一些委員 你說你們當初採取的不記名到底補定 到底再考量一下"},{"start":22998.406,"end":23018.535,"text":"如同剛剛委員所提到的因為現在網路非常的發達所以如果把委員的姓名揭露的話那的確會造成一些困擾但是我們所有的這個會議的資料我們都已經公開只是委員用ABC的代號去取代而已"},{"start":23019.224,"end":23044.732,"text":"所以說當初你們就是說才不記名也有他特殊的一個考量這一些時空因素存在啦我要請法務部長蔡部長也請上來一下就是說向法務部部長請回啦那我一直在想說整個高端裡面我相信很多在黨的朋友會拿出來這樣去講說是不是有圖利或者說這個過程裡面有沒有牽扯到誰貪圖"},{"start":23048.735,"end":23071.222,"text":"請問部長就是說,我們現在查高端,大家去自己檢紀,我們檢方就馬上去做一個查辦,現在有幾件是不起訴的?63件,就已經都查清楚了,沒有不法的情勢。我跟部長報告,今天你做這個案子,如果讓你重新再回到你以前的一個專業的話,你老闆你也不要再燒了。"},{"start":23073.695,"end":23083.698,"text":"今天那個要檢舉啦我今天叫蔡英文啦明天叫蘇貞昌啦再來我叫程時中啦我來叫程建仁院長我來叫薛瑞仁稅務長大家給他創造的補助看到的還是憑感覺的你要怎麼辦?跟委員報告齁阿伯今年一月的時候還有人提出三件所以這三件又默契要辦中間啦所以"},{"start":23101.594,"end":23129.203,"text":"雖然是牽結啦但是牽結是沒有確定力的你如果說懷疑還有證據有涉嫌犯罪可以再提出來那當然有新事實新事證的話司法機關本來就是誤法誤網誤眾這個案子到現在來看的話我反而會認為說國人對有任何貪圖的一個疑慮的話他本來就是希望我們司法機關來做一個查辦可是呢"},{"start":23130.6,"end":23158.072,"text":"碰到選舉的時候再來談這種案件的話我相信大多數人民政委會認為說他再來啊 又因為選舉再來啊這個看了大家也都會很討厭讓我們等個司法機關齁你整天在那裡沒人要死去啦沒人要死去啦但是我在這個地方也要求啦部長如果有任何新事證的話我相信大家在國會裡面啊碰到高端幾乎是被在野黨打的打臭掉啦但是呢"},{"start":23160.097,"end":23185.12,"text":"你說這個案﹖到最後是不是有任何人去涉案的話﹖或者高端的高層的話﹖我要求我們司法機關也必須要勿妄勿縱當然一定會的依法辦事嘛﹖如果有事實﹖有證據來證明﹖那我們當然依法處理是啦暖宿的情形不是只有高端而已很少的啦動不動就告官員瀆職圖利"},{"start":23187.247,"end":23202.708,"text":"我們檢察官大概要花很多的時間都在處理這些案子沒辦法臺灣是一個高度的一個民主的一個社會民眾稍微我記得我以前在當臺北市議員的時候"},{"start":23204.332,"end":23204.712,"text":"蔡部長請回我繼續要來請教院長就是說"},{"start":23232.498,"end":23260.982,"text":"今天既然是高端大家在做這個臨時會大家一直在講說我記得當初在批評高端的時候你看當初也講說這高端哪乎阿水甚至什麼高端跑下去都中無效甚至於講說磨柴害命我要在這個地方我要特別感謝院長因為我前幾天我自己的父親或是院長親自到我家裡面"},{"start":23262.503,"end":23289.907,"text":"我記得我當初我的父親今年90歲當初疫情來的時候大家都打AZ被人打下去後發燒被人打下去後都很難過爸爸等到第1期也去打AZ你再叫他打第1期他安卓打他就不去打他就打疫苗他不來我就是都不來"},{"start":23291.206,"end":23315.503,"text":"我非常感謝就是說其實後來總統還有院長您還有我們部會的所長去帶頭我也不知道說那個主流好不好我也都不知道我的想法是說成見人大人都叫你大人哥你就有公衛背景我們信賴你你打鬧我再找我老伯去我老伯英語這樣我你在拍"},{"start":23317.844,"end":23319.745,"text":"這部份有三點可以跟委員報告第一個就是這個高端"},{"start":23348.318,"end":23373.523,"text":"曾經在巴拉圭跟泰國做過三期臨床試驗而且在巴拉圭取得了EUA另外世界衛生組織也幫高端去做臨床三期的研究是在世界上三個國家來進行後來世界衛生組織也跟高端來"},{"start":23376.237,"end":23398.829,"text":"致有合約來用他的計轉﹖來給其他的國家﹖來可以使用高端的技術﹖那更重要的就是﹖最近一月份的時候﹖很有名的國際期刊﹖叫做新型傳染病的期刊﹖他就刊登了我們臺灣的﹖真實世界的數據﹖發現高端的效果﹖是和莫德納跟BNT是一樣的﹖比AZ還好﹖當然比這個科興跟國藥更好﹖"},{"start":23403.464,"end":23419.058,"text":"所以高端確實是一個很好的有國際認證的好的疫苗很可惜在當時因為大家不斷的抹黑像有些有副作用的人他不想去打反而沒有機會來打高端那這樣一個抹黑反而造成了可以打高端的人"},{"start":23419.638,"end":23448.921,"text":"就放棄了高端那這就是很多的老人家沒有預防接種的理由嘛那這樣子的話就喪失了這個預防打高端的機會的話說老實話我們是相當的不捨啦這樣會使得這些老人家容易死於這個COVID-19而事實也顯示呢臺灣的老人家打COVID-19的比較少我們本來當時的想法高端如果副作用比較小又有這麼好的效果就應該讓怕副作用的人來接種可是沒有因為抹黑太厲害"},{"start":23449.481,"end":23477.362,"text":"所以我覺得某一些人士或者是境外勢力的唱和者這樣的隨便抹黑實際上造成台灣老人家不願意打高端疫苗這也是讓我很心痛的事情所以很顯然這個經過科學認證它不是撫水其實我們也希望國人同胞不要口水來尊重這個科學但是我在這個地方要特別提醒院長"},{"start":23478.101,"end":23501.218,"text":"還有衛福部的就是說針對疫苗的一個不良的反應我相信這一些也很多委員的辦公室也受到民眾的懲罰就施打疫苗以後不是的狀況這些申請的案件因為我國疫苗接種受害的救濟申請的門檻我們算最低所以會特別多我們也希望"},{"start":23532.004,"end":23533.804,"text":"謝謝莊委員接下來請李委員得為質詢"},{"start":23566.252,"end":23569.053,"text":"好 謝謝游院長麻煩請行政院陳院長陳院長請"},{"start":23578.693,"end":23604.969,"text":"陳院長請問高端這個案子是不是中國借選有沒有中國借選我想高端有沒有中國借選當然沒有這跟中國沒有關係但是高端的疫苗確實有跟中國的疫苗來做比較在野黨包含本席在內有誰在這邊提出來要求買中國的國藥跟科興的疫苗你可以講出來嗎"},{"start":23606.863,"end":23618.151,"text":"這一個人數還不少啦那王定宇委員曾經有公布一個數據但是我是尊重我們大院的委員我在這裡就不公開說明啦但是跟大院委員我不會說但是最起碼有一個我可以說啦就是馬英九前總統就有說"},{"start":23631.201,"end":23632.302,"text":"實際上在美國國家衛生研究院"},{"start":23660.626,"end":23665.218,"text":"他在疫情的這一段期間他就有找出來了一段"},{"start":23665.954,"end":23669.915,"text":"因為高端的副董事長有說你講一句話有利人士講一句話比他們講10句還有用"},{"start":23694.221,"end":23709.119,"text":"所以其實您就是高端跟美國國衛院相關的牽線者對不對這個是很重要的一件事情當國家有需要發展一個好的疫苗這個疫苗也證明了是有效的時候我們就應該我們要說你不好"},{"start":23711.221,"end":23714.566,"text":"在高端這個案子裡面,您是關係人還是公正的第三方?"},{"start":23726.124,"end":23744.11,"text":"你今天在這邊幾乎就是高端的代言人高端的關心人啊因為你牽線的嘛不是嗎我是因為這兩個人認識所以你不是公正的第三方對不對我當然是公正的第三方我為什麼不是公正的第三方"},{"start":23744.91,"end":23770.772,"text":"我只是把這個好的這個GENETIC STRUCTURE去建議他來找台灣的學者我沒有什麼這個高端的副董事長在受訪裡面講得非常的清楚嘛沒有所以您不是公正的第三方我是公正的第三方而且你剛才講到的臨床試驗裡面或者是動物實驗所有的東西都登在世界上的一流的期刊"},{"start":23771.572,"end":23783.546,"text":"後來給EUA的免疫橋接是基本上由您來定的調嗎後來衛福部只可以委員你講的完全錯誤"},{"start":23786.489,"end":23786.77,"text":"政府採購了500萬劑"},{"start":23813.294,"end":23835.913,"text":"然後 報廢了將近170萬劑因為有人抹黑嘛 謾罵所以使得他沒有使用啊這就是我剛才講的 使得可以用的人沒有用所以院長 你是輕忽台灣人的智商囉有人抹黑 台灣人就選擇不要打高端是這個意思嗎你是看清2300萬台灣人嗎那個時候請問 那個時候請問這一個在野黨怎麼樣講中共的附和者怎麼樣來講高端"},{"start":23841.337,"end":23851.061,"text":"因為他們擔心高端疫苗的效果科興比國藥好啦那我們來看他的抗筆價嘛我可以請他暫停嗎我要講話好你講來 院長"},{"start":23862.429,"end":23881.337,"text":"高端的營收完全是靠民進黨政府衛福部的採購你去看他的報表因為他是上市公司他的營收又是靠政府給他採購新冠疫苗跟這一次代理韓國的流感疫苗"},{"start":23883.291,"end":23894.981,"text":"你去看他的裁判你不用贊成這是事實這不是假訊息好沒有關係重點是這一個所謂的疫苗國家隊最後是空歡喜一場虎頭蛇尾浪費人民的血汗錢最後失敗收場對不對所以來"},{"start":23907.831,"end":23935.126,"text":"院長你還要講最好疫苗然後什麼都是民進黨執政黨對都是人民的錯在野黨的錯抹黑所以民眾不願意打高端這就是你的結論所以我才說你也不用牽扯這麼多防疫人員降帥無能累死三軍哪三軍我跟你說就是辛苦的防疫人員跟我們2300萬的同胞"},{"start":23944.452,"end":23962.564,"text":"高端疫苗300萬劑 拯救了相近百萬的人口結果你抹煞他說它沒有效果而且全世界都說它是一個好疫苗所以你剛才講的是完全不科學沒有理性依據的說法"},{"start":23967.759,"end":23967.999,"text":"請問一下為什麼不執行"},{"start":23997.713,"end":24012.458,"text":"這難道不是今天公祭明天忘記嗎不是我想此行是不是要執行有一套規則在進行那這一套規則你沒有要讓保護部部長來說明那我就幫他說明所以按照這個規則這些人"},{"start":24019.79,"end":24031.955,"text":"按照我們的這個死刑執行的規則這些人 有些人都還在上訴過程當中所以委員 人命關天 人命關天 人命關天你是公衛的專家 不是司法的專家啦你現在不讓法務部部長上來講"},{"start":24041.594,"end":24059.342,"text":"這就是因為你們覺得你們的講法是不正確的嘛不符合規則當然不能執行三審定言你有沒有聽過三審定言當然有聽過但是可以不可以有上訴可以不可以再重新審理案子可以不可以申請大法官釋憲當然可以啊幫加害人"},{"start":24060.467,"end":24061.828,"text":"來 院長請教一下"},{"start":24091.314,"end":24115.512,"text":"這個賴皮寮跟五月天的事情請問一下您的女公子的房子有沒有國安特勤去守護沒有啊或者警察有沒有去站崗有還是沒有女公子的房子有還是沒有沒有沒有好那請問你贊不贊成國安特勤去站"},{"start":24117.588,"end":24145.791,"text":"賴清德主席賴清德副總統兒子在萬里的賴皮寮你贊不贊成這國安有國安的這個做法那這個要由國安特勤的人來做決定要由國安的人來決定所以你行政院長不用決定在我在選舉的過程當中確實是有比較高階的這樣的一個國安特勤的保護是但是我要提醒你"},{"start":24146.92,"end":24162.56,"text":"萬里所謂賴清德副總統的老家他的產權是他的兒子不是他你贊成讓國安特勤或者警察去佔你女公子的房子房地產嗎你贊不贊成你會不會這麼做"},{"start":24165.862,"end":24171.366,"text":"本席是擔任憲兵的要是我被派在那邊守他兒子的房子我會覺得很悲哀啊我會覺得很淒慘"},{"start":24191.291,"end":24198.002,"text":"我當一個憲兵是來報效國家的不是來替我們的特權守房子"},{"start":24198.956,"end":24224.737,"text":"假如他是副總統他是行政院長我死都甘願好那我跟委員做個報告啦當我是副總統的時候我到哪裡那特勤人員一定會到那個地方去守護保護我的安全所以如果今天我有一個地方我會經常去訪問的時候那我當然就需要有特勤的保護嘛"},{"start":24226.779,"end":24227.459,"text":"請教一下五月天的問題"},{"start":24242.25,"end":24264.096,"text":"我們國安的官員在簡報裡面說跟CNN說五月天被要求表明自己的政治立場而且這個情報是基於台灣在中國收集的情報調查可能跟一月的總統大選有關這件事情您知道嗎我知道好請稍等"},{"start":24265.784,"end":24291.38,"text":"12月28陸委會就說查證中了來這邊法務部我們蔡部長我們檢查總長邢太昭說什麼這種全國性重大的假信息要立刻澄清迅速下架溯源追查主嫌陸委會12月28就說要查現在有結果嗎有沒有"},{"start":24293.672,"end":24311.748,"text":"來我們的調查局長說48小時就可以檢測升委的影片是不是偽造我們這時間不夠所以我就直接講請問羅志正委員相關的這種不管是升委或者不是升委"},{"start":24313.383,"end":24324.47,"text":"復不復合全國重大假訊息應不應該立即澄清 迅速下架溯源追查主嫌 院長你認為應不應該當然應該啊那結果呢 結果"},{"start":24328.772,"end":24333.856,"text":"結果呢會調查局有相關的東西來來來 院長不能對你有利的就選擇公布或不公布對執政黨立委不利的就選擇公布或不公布所以當時行政院副院長的"},{"start":24349.266,"end":24350.287,"text":"你原本是個老實人啊"},{"start":24372.725,"end":24374.166,"text":"賴副總統在第一時間就為我們羅委員說這是中國屆選的聲謂影片"},{"start":24397.489,"end":24397.789,"text":"現在已經在做了"},{"start":24421.844,"end":24429.571,"text":"答案呢馬上1月13號投票了你執政黨的參選人副總統就說是中國界選嗎需要時間 院長你看清楚調查局長王俊麗說48小時48小時還要溯源呢"},{"start":24447.898,"end":24458.894,"text":"那你至少要先公布這事實不是身為嘛那你如果你公布了以後影響了偵查的這個程序呢所以你現在講的都是騙段的事情"},{"start":24460.134,"end":24463.677,"text":"再一次最後9秒鐘希望你不要學會抹紅抹黑的伎倆我沒有抹紅抹黑千萬不可以這樣子因為你要有你的歷史定位"},{"start":24505.263,"end":24508.705,"text":"好 謝謝李委員接下來請吳委員育晴執行"},{"start":24515.759,"end":24517.24,"text":"因為剛才我接到一個簡訊說中國發射這個灰彈"},{"start":24539.369,"end":24544.321,"text":"是 我剛剛也看到這個警訊了對所以中共對我們的威脅是一直在的確實 確實時時都在"},{"start":24547.634,"end":24573.053,"text":"院長我想今天在總統大選的前4天召開這樣的臨時會其實是相當罕見的那我想今天又針對高端的議題又再重啟我想很多的不許的訊息其實希望藉這一次的臨時會也能夠跟國人做一個清楚的說明事實上從第10屆我們在這個未還委員會或是在院會的報告裡面"},{"start":24574.734,"end":24593.457,"text":"院長已經做3次報告了我們在胃環委員會調閱小組就開了6次我幾乎常我們都一直在胃環嘛那這個胃環裡面的專報或是這個公聽會也開了12次所以其實疫苗的事情我們在第3會期第4會期其實非常密集的討論"},{"start":24594.618,"end":24610.575,"text":"今天又重啟我覺得也好讓我們執政團隊可以針對高端的議題來好好說清楚所以今天有這個機會也來跟院長再請教一下現在這個疫苗的採購本來就涉及很多的商業的機密"},{"start":24611.916,"end":24632.344,"text":"簽訂保密合作合約其實是正常的一個情形那政院院長不斷地對當時我們第3會期第4會期的時候我們其實有個未還的調閱小組在調閱資料裡面他們都說我們塗黑啦遮蔽啦對我們這個內容有一些攻擊那我想請問院長或是我們部長"},{"start":24633.084,"end":24640.189,"text":"如果依照在野黨的要求完全不遮蔽也不把個別的機密資訊遮蔽的話會有什麼問題"},{"start":24647.825,"end":24663.472,"text":"如果說沒有遮蔽的話那就沒有辦法避免洩露出去那這個洩露出去的話那會影響到以後我們在做採購疫苗的時候那對於這些國外的廠商對我們的信任度"},{"start":24664.032,"end":24692.094,"text":"那可能我們就會買不到疫苗買不到藥品這是一個合約的規定裡面這個保密的原則如果不遵守那接下來沒有人跟我們做生意了沒有人會賣疫苗給我們那當時我們在這個所謂的採購疫苗調閱專案小組上面其實也有相關的規定就是我們在調閱資料的時候我們其實是委員本身進去看資料也要負有保密的一個責任的但是當時其實"},{"start":24693.015,"end":24694.797,"text":"而且這位委員還是法律人出身"},{"start":24712.208,"end":24733.076,"text":"我覺得立法院要做監督我們沒有意見但是你還是要守法如果不守法我覺得我們到國際去跟人家做生意或是購買相關的疫苗我覺得我們沒辦法取信於所有的契約方所以我自己在看這個我都覺得有點自己是"},{"start":24733.796,"end":24758.994,"text":"指法的人又違法沾沾自喜的就覺得這個是在破解我們執政團隊的這個所謂說法我覺得這個是我覺得對整個國家的殺傷力是非常大的所以我覺得這個是我自己覺得不可取但是大家都在野黨一直都用這種方式來覺得自己"},{"start":24759.394,"end":24763.797,"text":"那其他的呢?其他的應該有的都比高端還長"},{"start":24787.714,"end":24794.06,"text":"疫苗保存的期限確實每一個公司他的要求都不一樣像莫德納他就是不公開"},{"start":24815.7,"end":24834.833,"text":"所以我們今天一直在談說要針對高端的這個保密要公開那我覺得如果這件事針對BNT好了或是針對我們的AZ說我們要求他公開你覺得這些國際廠他會什麼態度看台灣"},{"start":24837.038,"end":24860.01,"text":"對,包括說鴻海也不敢去公開BNT的合約因為就沒有誠信嘛對,因為你看我們好不容易購買到像BNT這麼好的一個疫苗進來我們都不希望打破或打壞這個所謂國際的這個合約嘛所以沒有,現在我覺得在野黨沒有人在問說那為什麼不公開其他的疫苗"},{"start":24860.85,"end":24861.371,"text":"太明顯的選擇性了"},{"start":24883.746,"end":24885.888,"text":"有的人是文字是不太懂封存跟封"},{"start":24908.153,"end":24909.373,"text":"我們這些合約真的都不能公開嗎?"},{"start":24921.341,"end":24938.961,"text":"時間到了就可以啊原則上時間到了就可以今天早上院長的報告裡面其實也談到監察院還有審計部其實都看過合約了因為那是公務上的需要跟司法上如果法院需要的話也是可以看的嘛"},{"start":24940.369,"end":24966.09,"text":"對 對不過在這邊也跟委員報告一下啦那今天下午的時候那個高端已經宣 正式對外做聲明他會召開董事會來決定是否要公開是 所以他們最近會召開那個董事會來決議說要不要公開嘛要不要提早公開啦對 我們有多次跟他聯繫那他今天也對外公布這樣子"},{"start":24967.223,"end":24985.601,"text":"所以表示國人希望及早知道但是我想也是要我們公司這邊我想這樣子雙方都有一個彼此的尊重就是合約裡面最重要的也顯示了我們中華民國政府對於合約的誠信那對於未來我們要採購任何的藥物"},{"start":24986.181,"end":24987.182,"text":"其實疫苗是一個非常專業的科學"},{"start":25016.136,"end":25016.276,"text":"主席"},{"start":25039.66,"end":25054.255,"text":"即使身為一個臺灣人也很焦慮的是說每次在選舉到了一次再一次的這個在野黨在操作這個這個疫苗或是操作這樣的仇恨我覺得那我們國內的國產的所謂的這個產業誰敢再讓我們國家賠錢"},{"start":25060.481,"end":25064.563,"text":"其實臺灣人的本性是慈悲善良還有謙讓然後也願意照顧弱勢像口罩的時候我們不是說我OK你先請"},{"start":25087.293,"end":25104.026,"text":"但是我們會發現在這個疫苗這件事情上的時候就變成了不斷的抹黑不斷的照說明了假 錯假的訊息以至於民眾對於疫苗的這個副作用被誇大而不願意打疫苗"},{"start":25104.386,"end":25133.036,"text":"那像這樣的一個不正確的信息的傳播實際上是阻止了讓台灣的老人家不願意打疫苗一個很重要的原因我們的調查就說要有副作用啊還有人說呢打疫苗使得比感染的人多那這些錯假消息到處漫步的時候呢實際上就使得這些老人家不願意去接受疫苗所以台灣的疫苗老人家的疫苗接種率只有7成多日本韓國跟新加坡都到9成5以上當然我們"},{"start":25133.456,"end":25157.312,"text":"臨時會議員："},{"start":25158.056,"end":25178.533,"text":"我非常支持院長的一個說明那剛剛葉委員說這個高端好像完全依賴政府好像不是事實吧所以高端其實有關長病毒疫苗院長還有部長應該很熟悉現在高端的長病毒疫苗到底市佔率多少"},{"start":25182.337,"end":25195.914,"text":"目前長病毒71的疫苗台灣有兩支一支是安特羅一支是高端總共已經封建檢驗的大概是23萬高端佔22萬3千"},{"start":25199.058,"end":25216.307,"text":"所以大概在9成左右的市佔率對 是已經9成多了所以這很專業嘛能夠研發出一個長病毒的疫苗所以剛才那個委員講說他就只有靠COVID-19疫苗他那個是自費的而且價格也不低"},{"start":25217.347,"end":25234.29,"text":"是 所以高端有它研發的能力那它自己也研發了長病毒的疫苗我覺得這個就是我們要培植的國產的一個公司疫苗這因為疫苗是戰略物資啊如果當真的有狀況的時候台灣自己要有自己的疫苗"},{"start":25235.05,"end":25235.33,"text":"主席"},{"start":25254.886,"end":25283.421,"text":"確實這是當時我們在決定COVID-19的疫苗要國際採購以及國內發展的時候就公開徵求國內所有的生醫產是這疫苗製造者能夠進來所以不是所以有國光﹚土地高端﹚有聯亞還有高端都三家對 有四家但是有一家後來他不願意安特羅他不願意進來所以有三家所以政府是全面的來照顧臺灣的生醫產業鼓勵他們好好做研發成為世界一流的疫苗廠"},{"start":25285.141,"end":25300.877,"text":"其實我們當時這樣支持我們國內的廠商進來研發疫苗是原來4家後來3家有的進1期有的進2期其實我們投入金額沒有很高高端才4.6美國4千億"},{"start":25305.894,"end":25333.9,"text":"所以我覺得我們投入的並沒有很多但是國內的廠商真的這個算是厲害啦有自己的研發的能力而且產出很好的一個疫苗能夠我想接下來全世界應該會對於我們的疫苗是很認同的那當然我們看到那個賴副總統也提到說我們高端的合約要這個公布那我剛剛也再請部長再說一次就是高端下午的公布是說"},{"start":25335.261,"end":25362.962,"text":"他們即將要召開董事會來決定是否同意跟什麼時候要公開所以這個部分我們還是要尊重高端這邊因為我們畢竟也是雙方的一個合約我們不能強迫說他一定要公開但是我們看到國內的情勢當然如果能公開我們一起讓這個訊息能夠公開透明讓高端也不要每次都變成大家的劍把"},{"start":25364.203,"end":25381.179,"text":"政府的立場也是主張可以公開啦我們就盡量的跟這個高端做協商然後希望他能夠公開我們很高興看到他願意召開董事會來做決定一個上市公司來講他們的開這個董事會大概要花多長的時間與他們一起"},{"start":25385.823,"end":25400.65,"text":"這個我印象中是說董事會召開前的一個禮拜要通知要說明然後他們來開董事會那像這一件事情的話我們很高興看到高端願意這樣來做了"},{"start":25401.471,"end":25416.945,"text":"院長最後一點時間因為最近疫情好像又再起所以整個又快要春節了又要選舉所以很多人來來往往的我們是不是要請院長這邊再宣導一次就是要趕快鼓勵大家再打疫苗"},{"start":25417.677,"end":25418.158,"text":"主席"},{"start":25447.366,"end":25468.82,"text":"好 謝謝吳委員接下來請林委員為周諸詢謝謝院長我們請陳院長還有薛部長一起上來國防部長有來嗎國防部長沒有來林委員長"},{"start":25473.081,"end":25473.361,"text":"中國發射衛星"},{"start":25494.136,"end":25506.999,"text":"發射衛星要國家級警報嗎當然啊 因為它也是一個投射器啊一個否建的投射器發射中國發射衛星發射多少你知道嗎每一次都發國家級警報嗎那就經過我們本島上一次真正發射飛彈橫越臺灣"},{"start":25514.714,"end":25523.038,"text":"上空啊沒有發國家級警報這是防空警報所以你們現在是怎樣?碰到選舉製造緊張嗎?以前飛彈飛過台灣領空說大氣層不屬於領空沒有發國家警報現在發射一個衛星"},{"start":25539.54,"end":25541.381,"text":"我剛才一看還沒有看完的時候我就上來了"},{"start":25559.046,"end":25561.849,"text":"3點05分中國發射衛星已飛越南部上空請民眾注意安全若發現不明物體"},{"start":25574.124,"end":25599.613,"text":"通報警消人員處理那個衛星是會掉下來是不是不明物體人家會發射衛星你在警告我們的民眾每一節每一節的火箭都會落到地下為什麼要提高警覺為什麼要提高警覺這個容易讓人誤解你看他的英文叫Air Raid Alert"},{"start":25599.913,"end":25624.59,"text":"MISOFLY OVER TAIWAN AIR SPACEBEWAREMISO是SATELLITE還是是MISO還是SATELLITE人造衛星怎麼講啊SATELLITE啊那怎麼寫MISO這個這個我我就你寫飛彈欸你以為台灣人都不懂英文這個錯誤的話我們要來更正錯誤馬上更正"},{"start":25629.431,"end":25630.051,"text":"臨時會議．第1次臨時會議．第1次臨時會議．第1次臨時會議"},{"start":25659.096,"end":25673.385,"text":"這是火箭搭載著衛星那為什麼要公告就是我講的這個火箭會一點一點掉下來而且選前四天有沒有借選這是你自己講的但是中國的衛星為什麼衛星用國家機器在借選"},{"start":25683.254,"end":25683.574,"text":"讓人誤導是當作飛彈"},{"start":25699.227,"end":25719.347,"text":"沒有啊你們發的簡訊英文你怎麼解釋啊火箭搭載發射的衛星啊你為什麼不寫satellite我們一定要讓民眾知道說投射這個衛星的時候火箭會掉下來大家要小心"},{"start":25719.807,"end":25722.712,"text":"你的簡訊不導民眾讓民眾容易誤會說我真的是發射飛彈對不對你的簡訊要不要道歉啊"},{"start":25734.465,"end":25756.131,"text":"你為什麼不直接寫是Satellite artificial satelliteSatellite不是launch啦Satellite不是用這一個字啦所以我想這個你剛剛不是跟我回答說人造衛星怎麼講英文怎麼講Satellite對啊那你為什麼不用Satellite這是Satellite flyover這一句話要小心因為人造衛星本來就在你那邊飛過去"},{"start":25758.011,"end":25761.235,"text":"這是一個投射的行為以前他們發過多少衛星從來我們都不曾接受過這種國家級警報這剛好選舉前四天"},{"start":25777.506,"end":25777.766,"text":"防空警報"},{"start":25807.247,"end":25809.909,"text":"第一次有這種國家級警報是因為發射衛星"},{"start":25823.441,"end":25823.662,"text":"發言委員："},{"start":25844.978,"end":25845.918,"text":"這個我們常常在講"},{"start":25872.549,"end":25882.236,"text":"所以你要去問他蔡英文總統上台以後兩岸中線不見了這個也是事實嘛國民黨執政的時候沒有這種問題啊"},{"start":25884.161,"end":25884.381,"text":"主席馬英九總統"},{"start":25906.86,"end":25916.764,"text":"憲法是災難嗎我們的治權就是臺澎金馬憲法修正條文怎麼說臺澎金馬是我們的治權但是我們國家叫中華民國固有疆域包括中國大陸那是固有疆域法案條例就是在處理這個問題啊那你不認同我們的憲法"},{"start":25933.154,"end":25934.534,"text":"發射一個衛星誤導成發射飛彈"},{"start":25962.179,"end":25987.054,"text":"那你為什麼不選擇中國?你選擇中國偏偏在選舉的時候沒有要你回答現在我們來談高端我還有時間耶是我在質詢但是我們共用時間啊OK 這個我問你才答嘛你不能問我問題嘛我沒有問題啊這個是規定啊 對不對好不好我也可以叫你不回答你可以"},{"start":25988.154,"end":25989.115,"text":"高端是一個好的疫苗"},{"start":26005.25,"end":26009.053,"text":"他現在有世界衛生組織跟他簽一個技術授權的"},{"start":26024.079,"end":26030.266,"text":"到目前為止除了賣有感疫苗其他疫苗有啦但是賣這個COVID-19疫苗的收入是零"},{"start":26043.933,"end":26044.153,"text":"這是不能說的"},{"start":26062.735,"end":26069.638,"text":"日本當時是說只要被世界衛生組織認可的疫苗他都接受因為當時我們還沒有可是我要講的是打了這個300萬"},{"start":26076.281,"end":26091.191,"text":"現在日本根本入境都不需要現在已經被WHO認可了嗎這300萬劑的疫苗打下去以後我們發現它的效益是跟BNT跟莫德納是一樣的好比AZ還好那比起AZ你講的"},{"start":26096.214,"end":26108.78,"text":"這是新興傳染病這個重要的學術期刊發表的論文你如果連這個就不用講不用在這裡講好一個疫苗好嗎這是國際認證的疫苗你打AZ打BNT都可以到日本結果打高端都不行你要再打八項這是事實"},{"start":26120.182,"end":26132.39,"text":"日本科技不發達生醫沒有我們發達是嗎確實我現在講嘛日本發展出來的COVID-19疫苗沒有一個成功的"},{"start":26150.339,"end":26154.521,"text":"高端公司曾經自己發表過 單季的話是881如果多季型的話是810塊 然後他贈送20萬季"},{"start":26176.394,"end":26180.441,"text":"所以我問你這個問題881實在是蠻貴的加上我們對他的補助款4億多合起來1000塊一劑比BNT還貴"},{"start":26192.038,"end":26212.137,"text":"怎麼會有一千塊這個數字?你如果補助另外一個4個月,你還要算上去,算上下去,一劑就是一千塊那你就跟他說,八百多塊啊八百多塊那是買疫苗的錢,你們有另外,人家那個董事會的錄音帶都出來了啊所以你們有另外補助他4億多啊,不是嗎?"},{"start":26212.637,"end":26212.917,"text":"應該不該補助 該不該研發 要嗎"},{"start":26241.098,"end":26264.601,"text":"那個跟國外廠商不一樣的是高端就沒經過三期的這個認證委員如果有打過那些莫德納啦B&B啊國外有補助B&B這些都有補助讓全球各國家都認同你的高端就沒有國家認同只有我們衛福部是唯一的客人"},{"start":26266.983,"end":26292.483,"text":"你講三期的疫苗委員你當時如果打BNT打莫德納你打的也不是三期臨床實驗後的疫苗喔不是喔你一定要有這樣的一個觀念你們現在到底要公開這個合約了沒有啦決定了沒有這個部分的話高端公司已經對外來發了聲明那下午的時候他們人家高端都要開董事會"},{"start":26294.704,"end":26320.399,"text":"高端的重大訊息重訊都說不是我們不公布是因為衛福部機關要求錯誤早上已經有解釋過請金管會這個院長這個部長沒有辦法管到高端金管會要管一下重大訊息發布錯誤是要罰款的罰則的有沒有罰則重大訊息發布假訊息這有沒有罰則請說"},{"start":26323.507,"end":26323.827,"text":"法款還是怎麼樣?"},{"start":26333.871,"end":26334.712,"text":"高端公司已經決定要召開臨時董事會"},{"start":26359.609,"end":26363.59,"text":"我們的合約是簽5年保密協定政府要信手成信"},{"start":26396.983,"end":26415.199,"text":"本日排定執行的委員都已經詢答完畢謝謝陳院長及相關部會所長立即答詢作以下之決定一 將各委員發言紀錄及書面執行含重行政院請就未答覆部分予以書面答覆"},{"start":26416.55,"end":26439.586,"text":"已提出是市委主席應善會登在公報者一例補刊報告院會本次會議所列議程已經處理完畢於是立法院議事規則第54條規定便藉最後一次院會議事錄於善會前宣讀現在請林秘書長宣讀第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議議事錄"},{"start":26444.912,"end":26471.903,"text":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議一事錄時間 中華民國113年1月9日上午9時8分至12時2分下午20時30分至30時51分地點本院議場出席委員 邱委員陳妍等人請假委員 賴委員瑞龍等人主席 院長游錫堃"},{"start":26473.433,"end":26485.428,"text":"行政院院長提出是否公布高端合約．是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益．等相關事宜專案報告並答覆質詢．決定"},{"start":26489.292,"end":26514.176,"text":"一將各委員發言紀錄及書面執行含送行政院請就未答部分已以書面答覆二已提出之書面執行尚未登載公布者一例補刊其他事項一本次會議議事日程照議事處編撰草案通過先讀完畢報告委員會"},{"start":26515.396,"end":26528.883,"text":"尊對第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議．事由．如委員或黨團提出錯誤或疑落之處．作為下述宣告．8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議．事由．確定報言會 本次臨時會進行到此結束現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}