{"error":false,"id":["153637"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153637,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153637","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T11:54:34+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T12:01:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:31","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c981589735f97d469e4155b271690f57e8efc6f3e651eb00659a28b0b271210cedf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:54:34 - 12:01:05","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。【第(二)案、第(三)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【第(二)案至第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】三、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員羅美玲等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十三)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等22人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":1082,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時54分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。詐騙非常非常地嚴重，然後各種招術都有，所以相關的部會，當然今天在內政委員會的這個法，主管機關是內政部。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我那天在交通委員會也特別提到其他的部會，像通傳會、數位發展部，尤其是電信這個部分非常非常地重要，所以怎麼樣去整合各部會，然後就自己所主管的去加強防範，最主要是個資怎麼樣能夠不讓詐騙集團了解。","我常常講徒法不足以自行，尤其我當過公務員30年，真的是徒法不足以自行，就以內政部來講，主要是警政署，警政署的人力也有限，都是靠警政署啦！但是前面的防範措施不足的話，為什麼這些詐騙集團會有那些個資呢？對不對？騙取帳戶，最主要第一個，他有電話，打電話還知道你的名字，對不對？那個最重要。另外，有很多的詐騙，他就寫信到這個家，有你的名字喔！然後說你可以用網路去處理，他用警政單位的名義去詐騙，然後你就匯款，結果一匯款，他有了這個帳戶之後又去騙其他的，騙來騙去。","針對這個部分，最主要是要先去了解這些詐騙集團是怎麼樣去做這樣的犯罪，所以警政署要去做分析，你這邊提到了你們的成果，但是要去分析啊！不是只有人抓來就好了，要去分析，所以警政署的人力也是非常地重要，怎麼樣去整合、去分析，然後去防範，這個部分非常地重要。那我們看整個人力，從這個表可以看得出來，因為臺東、花蓮、離島的人力有限，所以比例就很低，所以人力也要去加強。","我們現在談另外一個議題，今天有另外一個議題──宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例，本席在111年4月15日也有提這個條例，簡報左邊是我當初的條文，「五年內」就是今天要修正的條文，第五條我當初就是寫「五年內」，當初沒有被採納，就按照行政院版的二年，果然馬上又要修正，二年當然不可能啊！因為時間的關係，請內政部提供這個暫行條例施行到現在到底完成得如何，還有相關的比例。"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們在報告的時候，有把這個數目字報告出來。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是數目字，你要做一些分析，包括什麼呢？包括原住民的宗教團體，然後怎麼樣的團體，尤其是第四條的部分，現在耕地有放在這裡面，那耕地的部分到底是多少？當初我提的條文沒有被採納，農舍沒有放進去，原住民保留地沒有放進去，像這些怎麼樣去做限制登記？所以不是數字而已喔！包含你現在完成的是哪些類型，這樣才能夠去檢討到底應該要延幾年啊！然後送案的是多少案，但是它沒有辦法完成的原因是什麼？這樣才能夠有效地去檢討。"],["主席：請內政部會後提供資料給鄭天財委員。"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最後，你看現行條文的第六款，第六條的第六款，要這些不動產登記名義人或是全體繼承人同意書，這很難的！我的條文是沒有這個。事實上，按照第四款，你看現行條文的第四款，契約書、公證書或其他足資認定不動產為宗教團體實質所有之文件或資料就可以了，已經足以證明的話，你還要不動產這些自然人的同意書，當然他不會給你嘛！所以沒有辦法通過是不是因為這個因素？絕對是這個因素，所以這個部分還要滾動檢討，必要的話應該要再修正，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請洪孟楷委員質詢。鄭委員不好意思，因為下午要逐條。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-22","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃珊珊","王美惠","陳亭妃","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","黃建賓","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","李坤城","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件, 其中一宗罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯"},{"start":53.24,"end":80.662,"text":"整合各部會然後就自己所主管的來去加強的去防範最主要是那個各支各支怎麼樣能夠不讓詐騙集團了解所以這個部分有時候我常講徒法不足以執行尤其是我當過公務員30年真的是徒法不足以執行"},{"start":81.874,"end":110.846,"text":"就以內政部來講主要是警政署警政署的人力也有限都是靠警政署啦但是前面的防範措施不足的話為什麼這些詐騙期的會有那些個資呢對不對有他丈夫騙取丈夫最主要第一個他有電話電話還告訴你還知道他的名字對不對"},{"start":111.878,"end":132.367,"text":"最重要的因為很多的詐騙他就寫信到這個家有你的名字然後你說你可以用這個網路去因為你有那個什麼這些用警政單位的那個名義去然後去匯款匯款之後有了這個帳戶"},{"start":137.199,"end":163.283,"text":"他有了這個賬戶之後又去騙其他的騙來騙去所以這個部分最主要就是說要先去了解這些詐騙集團是怎麼樣去去做這樣的犯罪所以警政署這邊你就是要去做分析你這邊提到了你們的成果你們的成果"},{"start":164.128,"end":188.559,"text":"當時要去分析啊,不是就抓來就好了。要去分析。所以警政署的人力也是非常非常重要。怎麼樣去整合、去分析、然後去防範。這個很重要。所以這個部分是一個非常非常重要。那我們看這個整個人力從這個表就可以看得出"},{"start":189.605,"end":209.331,"text":"因為人力臺東花蓮離島人力有限所以就比例就很低所以這個部分人力也要去加強我們現在在另外談一個議題今天有另外一個議題宗教團體以自然的名義登記不動產處理暫行條例111年本席4月15號也有提這個這個條例我當初的條文呢"},{"start":217.898,"end":243.944,"text":"左邊這個條五年內就是今天要修正的這個條文第五條我當初就是寫五年內當初沒有被採納就按照行政院版兩年果然馬上又要修正兩年當然不可能啊所以因為時間的關係請內政部提供"},{"start":248.134,"end":272.939,"text":"這從這個這個條例啊暫行條例施行到現在到底完成的如何相關的我們在報告的時候有把這個數目字報告不是數目字哦你要做一些分析啊包括什麼呢包括原住民的啊宗教團體啊然後怎麼樣的那些團體然後尤其是這個第第4條哈"},{"start":274.648,"end":298.418,"text":"四條的部分到底農舍的現在農舍有放在這裡面耕地耕地有放在這裡面耕地耕地的部分是到底是多少當初我提的條文沒有被採納的就是農舍沒有放進去原住民保育地沒有放進去像這些怎麼樣去做限制登記"},{"start":299.966,"end":327.097,"text":"所以不是數字而已喔然後你就是說你現在完成的是包含了哪些類型包含了哪些類型這樣的話才能夠去檢討到底應該延幾年啊然後是不是很多送案的是多少案但是他沒有辦法完成的原因是什麼所以這個部分才能夠去有效的去檢討"},{"start":328.407,"end":356.496,"text":"好請我們內政部匯報提供資料給我們鄭天才委員最後你看這個現行條文現行條文的第6款第6條的第6款要這些不動產登記名義人或是前提繼承人同意書啊這很難的我的條文是沒有這個事實上按照第4款現行條文你看第4款"},{"start":358.68,"end":381.147,"text":"企業書、公證書或其他組織認定不動產為宗教團體實質所有之文件或資料就可以了已經足以證明的話你還要這個不動產這些自然人的這些同意書當然他不會給你嘛所以沒有辦法通過是不是因為這個因素絕對是這個因素"},{"start":383.308,"end":391.234,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}