{"error":false,"id":["153659"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153659,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153659","日期":"2024-06-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-05T13:34:55+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-05T13:45:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98471634c999da835684a12a82c262ca10b5dc6a9f8e8436d678b37549b5781d025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"13:34:55 - 13:45:39","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1025,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（13時35分）謝謝召委。請邱部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好！"],["陳委員瑩：部長好！恭喜你終於如願以償的站在對面，我剛剛在下面偷偷幫您拍了一張照，發現你站在那裡比站在這裡更「有範」。"],["邱部長泰源：不好意思！"],["陳委員瑩：第一個要請教的問題是菸害防制法已經修訂通過了，您當時也是我們委員會的委員，一直到您就任部長，其實這整個推動修法的過程已經歷經了三任部長，我比較好奇的是這部法我們衛環委員會是修訂得不夠好，還是條文有什麼窒礙難行的地方？因為過去部長擔任不分區立委的時候，您也有提案，想聽一下您的看法，有什麼窒礙難行的地方嗎？還是哪邊修不好？"],["邱部長泰源：那個時候經過大家那麼詳盡的討論，應該不至於有窒礙難行的地方。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我想也應該是這樣，所以我就要請教一下，請問開放加熱菸除了可以有效管理之外，這個菸捐及稅收預計一年大概是多少？"],["邱部長泰源：我請副署長來說明。"],["陳委員瑩：好，講個數字而已。"],["魏副署長璽倫：200億。"],["陳委員瑩：200億。那我另外請教大概可以挹注我們健保署多少？"],["邱部長泰源：請石署長說明。"],["石署長崇良：委員好！我們現在一年菸捐有一半分配給健保，菸捐總金額每年不一樣，大概在260到280左右，有50%分配給健保做安全準備金及弱勢的健保費補助，所以是一半……"],["陳委員瑩：所以這樣是多少錢？"],["石署長崇良：大概130億左右。"],["陳委員瑩：130億會到你那邊去嘛！"],["石署長崇良：對、對。"],["陳委員瑩：所以去年整整一年你都沒有收到，對不對？我們112年就修法通過啦！"],["石署長崇良：沒有，我講的是菸捐，一直都有……"],["陳委員瑩：菸捐。"],["石署長崇良：一直都有，只是加熱菸的部分可以再多增……"],["陳委員瑩：對，那一塊大概多少？"],["石署長崇良：現在還沒。"],["陳委員瑩：我們修法通過，你都還沒有收到，對不對？"],["石署長崇良：對、對，還沒、還沒。"],["陳委員瑩：好，就你們的瞭解，目前國內有沒有人在使用加熱菸？國內有沒有人目前實質在使用加熱菸？這是一個非常簡單的問題，Yes or No？"],["邱部長泰源：依法是不能使用，但是應該是有吧！"],["陳委員瑩：因為部長不好意思回答，我幫你講，那立法院有沒有人在抽？"],["邱部長泰源：我比較常去柯總召那裡，他好像都是煙霧……"],["陳委員瑩：他沒有抽加熱菸，我要替他澄清，柯總召沒有抽加熱菸……"],["邱部長泰源：對、對，他是煙霧的。"],["陳委員瑩：他沒有，我們不能誤會他。"],["邱部長泰源：應該是有委員在抽吧！"],["陳委員瑩：我沒有問你是誰，我只問你有沒有人而已，你不要講太清楚，免得日後預算會有問題。","我也曾經親眼目睹，我不曉得是哪一個黨團的助理，那個助理我不認識，但我知道他是助理，也是大剌剌的就在青島崗哨、我們大院旁邊這樣抽起來，一點都不會像我們有些同事還會不好意思躲在別的地方抽。","後面兩位可以回座，謝謝。現在大家知道這個菸捐不少。","根據本席上次質詢薛部長的時候，國健署的「賈署長」表示加熱菸的進口必須要做流行病學的研究。當時薛部長表示，等這個研究做完他就死了，他這樣講。現在已經審查一年多了，到底我們還要等多久，加熱菸才會實質的通過？我們都希望大家可以好好的呼吸。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝……"],["陳委員瑩：如果根據剛剛講的200億，我們已經短收了200億的稅金啊！"],["邱部長泰源：這是不是請副署長回答一下？現在的審查狀況是怎麼樣。"],["魏副署長璽倫：跟委員報告，我們從去年6月開始，一個月會有兩次將審查的進度放在網站上，目前為止有12家的業者來申請，扣除一些未繳費或者是未補件的，大概有2家目前是在審查中。"],["陳委員瑩：你還是沒有回答我的問題，我不是問你審查狀況，我問你什麼時候會實質通過，大家就可以很合法的來使用加熱菸，也會有稅收。"],["魏副署長璽倫：抱歉，因為這不是我們督導，只是我知道他目前現在應該都很積極在辦理。"],["陳委員瑩：對，這樣的狀況大概要多久？還是你預估還要再過幾個部長？"],["魏副署長璽倫：因為其實依照我們的健康風險評估辦法有講到，從申請日起六個月內可以再延長一次六個月，所以基本上一年內要完成。"],["陳委員瑩：這個我們都知道，但是已經一年多，不是嗎？我們修法都通過了。"],["魏副署長璽倫：它扣除補件的期間。"],["陳委員瑩：所以部長，他講了這麼多狀況，您評估大概預計什麼時候可以讓大家合法地抽加熱菸，我們也可以有稅收？"],["邱部長泰源：說句老實話，我必須要去瞭解到它現在真正的狀況是怎麼樣，但是我覺得站在國家發展的立場、人民的權益，應該用最快的速度來進行。"],["陳委員瑩：所以會在您任內嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：希望是。"],["陳委員瑩：可以在今年嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：應該是今年可以。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我們就拭目以待，因為現在是6月，7月也是今年，8月也是，12月也是，所以部長您大概覺得哪一個月……"],["邱部長泰源：也希望各界多多關心、多多支持。"],["陳委員瑩：好，每次您來，我就關心一下，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：如果沒有開放，還是很多人使用，因為法令也沒有窒礙難行之處，所以經過這麼長的時間都沒有開放，就讓我們修法的目的及有效管理加熱菸等於都流於空談，唯一可以解釋的理由就是你們內部的官員沒有按期程完成審查，這個叫作行政怠惰，市場的現況是有大量加熱菸的流通，卻收不到稅金，這個就是瀆職，很嚴重的！所以您身為部長，是不是應該好好去調查一下，對於相關不適任的官員都要進行查處？你沒有積極一點，可能下次來又換不一樣的部長的時候，我再問他一樣的問題，他還是不能回答。","部長，加熱菸跟一般紙菸是不一樣的，它比較沒有那麼臭，你們沒有開放，也不能取締及管制，所以如果室內有人使用，我相信除了我，在場其他人不一定會發現，結果你們就讓更多的人暴露在這種菸害之中而不自覺。本席說要支持開放加熱菸，是為了讓加熱菸可以更有效地被管理及防制，這個就是我的初衷及目的。","我想法律已經很清楚，我們要開放，跟日本等其他國家一樣，限制使用的地方、徵收相關的菸捐及稅金。如今修法已經過了，如果你們裡面內部再有人抗拒、不開放，放任民眾違法使用，然後又不取締，所以其中的理由真的令人非常匪夷所思，我真的打了非常多的問號，相關的官員實在是難辭其咎，所以這件事真的需要被好好地調查、需要好好地懲處，為什麼拖這麼久？","我關心這個議題已經很多次了，我又是最討厭人家抽菸的人，所以我認為抽菸這件事情確實需要好好地被管理。然後放著200億的稅金不收，卻滿街的人都在抽，還在立法院大剌剌地抽，這樣像話嗎？我每次看到有人抽，我就覺得好多錢在我前面飛來飛去，這些錢可以拿來救很多人、幫助很多人的，所以部長你一定要好好地調查，來維護我們國家的法制，以及依法行政的精神。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員瑩：你不要講幾句嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定依法辦理，而且儘速辦理。"],["陳委員瑩：儘速辦理，要好好調查，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好好調查。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","接下來請蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","接下來請李彥秀委員、李彥秀委員、李彥秀委員不在。","接下來請林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","接下來請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳昭姿","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","王正旭","陳培瑜","盧縣一","廖偉翔","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","劉建國","洪申翰","楊曜","陳瑩","張智倫","陳冠廷"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、外交部就「2024年我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）之經過、檢討與展望」\n進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.906593750000003,"end":15.488468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.46659375,"end":21.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.192218750000002,"end":24.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.136593750000003,"end":26.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.26721875,"end":34.540343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.540343750000005,"end":35.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.72596875,"end":35.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.94096875,"end":36.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.970343750000005,"end":41.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.627843750000004,"end":46.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.74096875,"end":52.039718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.001593750000005,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.89471875,"end":77.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.47034375,"end":82.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.57159375,"end":77.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.54971875000001,"end":86.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.30846875,"end":90.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.22784375,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.51471875,"end":90.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.53159375,"end":90.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.63284375,"end":90.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.64971875,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.85221875,"end":111.84471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.40909375000001,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.12284375,"end":115.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.92846875000001,"end":116.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.56971875,"end":119.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.46409375,"end":118.18971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.74221875,"end":119.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.77596875,"end":121.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.63221875,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.44971875000002,"end":129.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.51284375,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130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330.098,"text":"我們都希望大家可以好好的呼吸啦因為這一年多了我們已經若根據那個200億剛剛講200億嘛那我們已經短收了就短收了200億的稅金啦這不請護士長回答一下那個現在的審查狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":332.418,"end":350.531,"text":"我們現在從去年6月開始一個月會有兩次將審查的進度放在網站上那目前為止就是有12家的業者來申請那扣除一些未繳費或者是未補件的大概會有兩家目前是在審查中這樣子"},{"start":350.934,"end":372.14,"text":"對阿你還是沒有回答我的問題阿我不是問你審查狀況我問你什麼時候會實質可以通過我們就可以大家可以很很合法的來使用這個加熱菸然後也會有稅收對就因為不是我督導只是說我知道他目前現在應該都很積極對阿那這樣的狀況大概要多久"},{"start":373.36,"end":400.379,"text":"還是還要再過幾個部長?您預估?因為其實依照我們的那個叫做什麼健康風險評估辦法有講到說他從申請日期是6個月內可以再延長一次就OK所以基本上一年內就要完成啦但是已經超過已經一年多不是嗎?他扣除那個補件的期間對那所以部長讓你你他也是講了這麼多狀況那您評估大概可以預計什麼時候"},{"start":402.352,"end":429.688,"text":"可以讓大家合法的再抽加油菸,我們也可以有稅收?我必須要去了解到他現在真正的狀況是怎麼樣但是我覺得這個站在國家發展的立場人民的權益應該用最快的速度來進行所以會在您任內嗎?希望是那可以在今年嗎?應該是今年可以啦"},{"start":430.273,"end":447.293,"text":"好,那我們就拭目以待喔,因為現在是6月嘛,那7月也是今年,8月也是,12月也是,所以部長您大概覺得哪個月?希望這些多多關心啦,多多支持這樣子。好,那我就每次您來我就關心一下這樣子好不好?好,謝謝,謝謝。"},{"start":448.134,"end":476.567,"text":"好 那個如果沒有開放還是很多人使用因為法令也沒有至愛難行之處所以經過這麼長的時間都沒有開放就讓我們修法的目的跟有效管理加熱煙就等於大家都流於空談嘛所以唯一可以解釋的理由就是你們內部的官員沒有按期程完成審查這個叫做行政怠惰啦"},{"start":477.347,"end":484.748,"text":"那市場現在有這個現況的有大量加熱煙的流通卻收不到稅金這個就是賭值"},{"start":486.206,"end":510.894,"text":"很嚴重的所以您身為部長是不是應該好好去調查一下對於這個相關不適任的官員都要進行查處啊你沒有在就是比較積極一點可能下次來又換不一樣的部長的時候我再問他一樣問題他還是不能回答那部長加熱菸跟一般止菸他是不一樣他比較沒有那麼臭"},{"start":511.914,"end":536.04,"text":"你們沒有開放也不能這個取締跟管制所以如果說室內如果有人使用我相信除了我這個在場其他人不一定有人會發現那結果就是說你們讓更多的人就暴露在這種煙害之中而不自覺這個也是本席說要支持開放加熱煙為的是為了要"},{"start":538.72,"end":564.732,"text":"讓這個加熱菸可以更有效的被管理跟防治這個就是我的初衷跟目的那我想法律已經很清楚那我們要開放跟日本等其他國家一樣限制使用的地方徵收相關的這個菸捐跟稅金那如今就是說已經修法已經過了那如果你們裡面內部再有人抗拒不開放那放任這個民眾違法使用的話"},{"start":567.393,"end":582.959,"text":"這個然後又不取締所以這個其中的理由真的非常令人匪夷所思我真的打了非常多的問號那相關的這個官員實在是難辭其咎所以這個真的這件事真的需要被好好的調查需要好好的被懲處為什麼拖這麼久"},{"start":585.16,"end":607.521,"text":"那我們必須要這個今天我是因為我關心這個議題已經很多次了然後我是最討厭人家抽菸的人所以我認為這個抽菸這件事情確實需要好好的被管理然後放著200億的稅金不收卻滿街的人都在抽還在立法院大剌剌的抽這樣像話嗎"},{"start":609.242,"end":634.355,"text":"我每次看到有人抽我就覺得好多錢在我前面飛來飛去這些錢可以拿來救很多人來幫助很多人的所以喔部長你一定要好好的調查來維護我們國家的這個法治以及這個依法行政的精神你沒有要講幾句啊一定依法辦理而且禁訴辦理禁訴辦理要好好調查好謝謝"},{"start":637.948,"end":642.29,"text":"好謝謝陳瑩委員接下來請鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}