{"error":false,"id":["153682"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153682,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153682","日期":"2024-06-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-06T09:46:37+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-06T09:56:52+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5da45236d204115402248f66a23a11b538282b1d5b897dd1c50af9c3d7560ef6a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:46:37 - 09:56:52","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「日圓貶值效應會否導致亞洲貨幣競貶，及對台灣經濟影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請經濟部列席備詢。\n【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":249,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時46分）主席，有請楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：郭委員早。"],["郭委員國文：總裁好。總裁，昨天央行有公布外匯存底高達5,728億美元，最近外資持有股票債券的部分也高達7,509億，我記得101年外匯存底突破4,000億的時候，外資占比大概只有55%，現在外資的占比相對於外匯存底來說已經高達131%了，這部分在你的報告書也有提到所謂地緣政治的問題，我想請問一下，關於這一點你有沒有進行任何的壓力測試？"],["楊總裁金龍：所謂的壓力測試，我不曉得委員所謂的壓力測試，你的意思是說如果萬一……"],["郭委員國文：萬一有什麼事情的話。"],["楊總裁金龍：萬一有什麼事情……"],["郭委員國文：對，凡事都要進行壓力測試。"],["楊總裁金龍：不過，委員所謂的壓力測試跟我們平常在什麼情況之下會做怎麼樣的一個處理……"],["郭委員國文：對、對，能不能舉一下例子？"],["楊總裁金龍：又在什麼情況下我們會做怎麼樣的處理，這都是一樣的，這是scenario的一個……"],["郭委員國文：最極端的情況之下是什麼情況？"],["楊總裁金龍：請委員允許我，我在國會議堂裡面講極端的話，好像我總覺得……"],["郭委員國文：有難言之隱？"],["楊總裁金龍：有難言之隱，也許……"],["郭委員國文：但就是有壓力測試？"],["楊總裁金龍：有，我跟委員報告，有啦！當然……"],["郭委員國文：你就說有，各種情況的壓力測試，你都在準備當中。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，我們在什麼情況下……"],["郭委員國文：你有18套的劇本，對喔？"],["楊總裁金龍：對、對，我們在什麼情況、在什麼情況、在什麼情況……"],["郭委員國文：你就是有18套的劇本嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：我們都會有scenario。"],["郭委員國文：都有劇本、都有因應。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以……"],["郭委員國文：我覺得你要讓國人安心。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們都隨時密切的注意。"],["郭委員國文：怕萬一這個熱錢急流勇退就很麻煩了，而且現在整個外資進來的金額愈來愈高。","另外我關心一下，有關於總體信用管制，我們做很多努力，總共花了5次的信用管制，但5次下來，我不知道總裁的心情有沒有挫折感，你看內政部最近公布的第4季住宅價格指數高達136.2%，連續漲了5年，一來是歷史新高，二來它的交易量也是史上第二高，31.6%是13年來新高、史上第二高，也就是價量齊揚，價量齊揚的結果就是我們總體信用管制失效，講白一點是這樣子啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：委員，如果說……"],["郭委員國文：不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：如果把價跟量的一個變化，單獨來說是選擇性信用管制……"],["郭委員國文：就結果論嘛！講白一點，我們就結果論英雄。"],["楊總裁金龍：以結果論，我跟委員報告，事實上選擇性信用管制是有效的。"],["郭委員國文：有效？"],["楊總裁金龍：是有效。"],["郭委員國文：如果沒有這樣的話更嚴重，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：這是其中之一，但是另外一個……"],["郭委員國文：總裁，你既然講得這麼有信心、講有效，但有效的程度到哪裡？我承認不會沒有效，老實講我不會說沒有效，但是效果沒有達到壓制價跟量的結果，這是事實嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員……"],["郭委員國文：量還是一直升，價還是一直揚，這是事實嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟……"],["郭委員國文：量升價揚、量價齊漲，結果就是這樣子，我相信你有效果，如果沒有管制的話可能會更嚴重，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：委員如果這麼說也可以。"],["郭委員國文：原因在哪裡？對不對？以前一整年的儲蓄都超過3兆，今年預估超過4.21兆，今年第一季就超過1.5兆，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["郭委員國文：問題出在哪裡？總裁，所以問題出在哪裡？我們來想一想，是不是我們的力道有所不足？我再讓你看一下房價暴漲的狀況，臺北部分在2020年跟2024年比較起來已經快到119萬了，118.58萬！進位法就119萬了，你去看看有沒有？臺北的漲幅還比較少，漲幅最多是新竹縣市，高達88.3%，總體而言是49.5%，總共大概5%。網路上最常提到的，當然你說不要針對個別產業來做所謂的利率調整，可是網路上最常提到的，謝金河也這樣講，長期的低利率是造成房價的元兇，你6月13號就要討論了，剛剛還有委員說你是不是暗示降息，你剛剛說降息，美國之所以會降息的原因是因為景氣下修，臺灣的景氣現在有下修嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，那降息的理由在哪裡？對不對？臺灣的股價、臺灣的房價漲成這樣子，總裁還有沒有招？你6月13號有沒有新招？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們6月13號會討論。"],["郭委員國文：你剛才講會討論嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，會討論。"],["郭委員國文：但是你的風向球已經拿出來搖了，你那個測風向的風向草，還不是小草喔！你拿出來測風向、你的風向草已經拿出來了。"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是。"],["郭委員國文：你有兩支風向草，第二支的風向草就不講了，我跟你講第一支的風向草，現在看起來比較有可能的這支風向草是什麼？就是隨著財政部調整豪宅標準，央行是否跟進？財政部之前的豪宅標準，臺北市從7,000萬降為6,000萬，新北市從6,000萬降為4,000萬，新竹、桃中南高從4,000萬降為3,000萬，其他縣市從4,000萬降為2,000萬，依照現在的央行標準是有落差的、一國兩制，我們臺灣財政部跟央行的豪宅標準不同，央行的這個標準何來？本席很難以理解，央行如果設臺北7,000萬、新北6,000萬，然後其他的4,000萬，請問一下，這一題會不會納入討論？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們都會討論。"],["郭委員國文：都會討論？這一題也會討論嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們也會討論。"],["郭委員國文：會討論、慎重討論？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，我們會討論。"],["郭委員國文：也是新招之一的可能性？"],["楊總裁金龍：反正是會討論。"],["郭委員國文：好，最後我問你一個問題，林次長您上來一下。總裁，對於你今天的報告，我只有一點沒辦法贊同，結語當中的第一點說「加以近兩年日本貿易帳均為逆差，日圓因而大幅貶值。」倒果為因嘛！這個貿易逆差是長年來都有的事情，怎麼會因此造成日圓貶值？是日圓貶值導致貿易逆差愈來愈嚴重。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，我跟委員報告，事實上你說的日本逆差不是一直都是逆差，沒有喔！"],["郭委員國文：我說一直以來的逆差很清楚嘛。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，它沒有一直以來逆差，它是2021年以後才逆差的。"],["郭委員國文：是這幾年才逆差嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["郭委員國文：好，那你就告訴我這幾年在逆差的情況底下，我問一下總裁……"],["楊總裁金龍：就是逆差，那逆差很簡單的是說……"],["郭委員國文：我們有長期逆差，我再問一下……"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有說長期逆差。"],["郭委員國文：長期逆差對我們是有利於出口沒有錯，但是相對地，我要替民眾問一個問題，日本進口商品、網路代購的藥妝、食品，民眾想要問，明明日圓貶值這麼多，為什麼沒有降價？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想這是個別商品啦！"],["郭委員國文：幾乎所有的商品都沒有降價！林次長。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：這個是出現什麼問題？照他們的講法，進口進來的半導體相關設備都可以降價，有利出口，那為什麼進口的這些服務商品沒有降價？次長，能不能給本席一個答案？"],["林次長全能：我沒有特別深入研究，不過應該是有很多元的因素，第一個部分就是可能這個進來的……"],["郭委員國文：你沒有深入研究，本席請你好好去研究一下。"],["林次長全能：我們一定會去尋找最癥結的原因在哪邊，但我個人認為……"],["郭委員國文：對，這是消費者的權益問題啊，明明貶值貶這麼多，難道要去日本買才會便宜，回來臺灣買日本商品就不會便宜？一樣是日圓改成臺幣，哪有這種事情？"],["林次長全能：我向委員報告，我覺得可能在商品的……"],["郭委員國文：臺日之間的對話你有沒有參與？"],["林次長全能：我沒有參與。"],["郭委員國文：你沒有參與，所以是陳正祺在管的？"],["林次長全能：是。"],["郭委員國文：你回去跟陳正祺講一下，跟你們部長講一下。"],["林次長全能：是。"],["郭委員國文：這沒道理嘛！對不對？好不好？"],["林次長全能：好。"],["郭委員國文：總裁，這個部分再麻煩你，對你充滿期待啦，你的新招數。"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝總裁，謝謝次長。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-16","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","林楚茵","廖先翔","謝衣鳯","葉元之","陳玉珍"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1135801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「日圓貶值效應會否導致亞洲貨幣競貶，及對台灣經濟影響」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請經濟部列席備詢","agenda_id":"1135801_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.6215937500000001,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.00096875,"end":3.7772187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.278468750000002,"end":9.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.324718750000002,"end":11.539718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.15159375,"end":11.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.539718750000002,"end":11.556593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.556593750000001,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.57346875,"end":11.590343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.590343750000002,"end":11.607218750000001},{"spe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我覺得可能這商品的那個"},{"start":579.359,"end":601.003,"text":"拜致之間的對話你有沒有參與啊?我沒有參與你沒有參與那是陳正琦在管的喔陳正琦在管你回去跟陳正琦講一下跟你部長講一下這沒道理嘛對不對好不好總裁那個這個部分再麻煩你期待啦對你充滿期待你的新招數謝謝總裁謝謝市長謝謝委員指教"},{"start":610.571,"end":611.596,"text":"現在進行賴會員賴委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}