{"error":false,"id":["153697"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153697,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153697","日期":"2024-06-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-06T10:12:31+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-06T10:22:44+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5f3a178478a47653979f99d17e212a4188282b1d5b897dd1cd5bfc84bced61b305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:12:31 - 10:22:44","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（10時12分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，我看廢棄物裡面問題最大的就是塑膠、塑膠袋、PVC之類的，有沒有辦法請微生物專家看看是否有微生物可以分解PVC，這樣問題就解決了，因為現在紙類及有機類都會腐爛，以前像東港、屏東那邊一個洞一個洞的掩埋場，現在都一個一個挖起來去燒，我覺得這樣的做法是對的。我今天要問你的是醫療廢棄物，不知哪一個署長對這個比較專門？因為你剛剛都沒有講到醫療廢棄物，雖然醫療廢棄物的事業管理機關是衛福部，但是衛福部沒有能力管理這個啦，它只會分類而已。我跟大家報告，這一個是一般事業廢棄物，另外一個是一般醫療廢棄物，還有一個是有污染性的廢棄物。你先看那個袋子，現在醫院裡面就是分黑袋子、黃袋子、紅袋子，部長你知不知道？"],["彭部長啓明：沒看過，改天你找我一起去看，好不好？"],["蘇委員清泉：黑袋子是拿去一般的焚化廠，黃袋子是要回收的，紅袋子就是有污染性的，譬如針頭扎到病人身上可能有愛滋病什麼的，所以這個一定是燒掉，紅色袋子裝的就是拿去燒掉。以前我們的廢棄物就是用黑袋子跟紅袋子裝，全部都拿去燒，而且量很大，後來才有黃袋子出現。這是好事，這是非常聰明的做法，但這到最後還是環保署你們要來統籌吧！譬如像各位看到的下面這一張，針頭當然是要燒掉，另外還有針筒、管線，譬如說洗腎室，洗腎室一天……臺灣洗腎病人將近十萬人，就是要做血液透析及腹膜透析，搞不好超過十萬人。像血液透析的管線，一個病人就要用一套，然後就disposable（丟掉），這些管線事實上是沒有接觸到什麼東西，這些管線沖完之後，高壓滅菌是可以回收的，但現在的做法都是把它絞成塑膠粒，然後做成椅子什麼的，這些我們都去看過，包括臺南、臺中我們都去看過。像這樣的狀況，你有沒有辦法輔導儘量能回收的就回收？如果真的是很污染的、接觸到病人針頭的、插CVP的，那個是真的要燒，環境部對這個有沒有什麼看法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我有跟衛福部長談到這個事情，改天我會找他來，由兩個部會來討論，因為現在的生物醫療廢棄物大概有八家公司在處理，我們總共輔導八家，目前針對針頭及塑膠針管的問題，的確是有這種滅菌再利用的方式。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以現在燒的不多了嘛，直接燒掉的一年並不多，但是回收的部分現在已經到七、八萬噸喔！"],["彭部長啓明：不止喔！"],["賴署長瑩瑩：回收部分每個月的量能大概是兩千噸。"],["彭部長啓明：一個月兩千噸。"],["蘇委員清泉：一年是七萬八千多噸。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：拿去燒掉的就是一般廢棄物，也就是用黑袋子裝的，這部分有十二萬噸……"],["彭部長啓明：大概三萬多噸，生物醫療的話是三萬多噸焚化啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：你有沒有什麼想法怎麼來提高這部分？依我個人的看法回收是蠻重要的，垃圾減量是好的事情啊！部長有什麼看法嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：我們會來輔導醫院，讓他們分選，然後可以再利用，但我們也希望衛福部可以來幫忙，譬如在醫院評鑑的時候，我們可以加入如果醫院做一些再利用或減量的工作，可以列入一個評鑑加分的項目，這樣更能鼓勵。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個會有誘因，當然最好是你們補助一些啦！你們錢麼多，就補助一點嘛，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：我們跟衛福部差很多、差好幾倍，委員要支持我們啊！衛福部錢比較多，包含醫院也要減碳啦，這個我們都……"],["蘇委員清泉：對啊，上次跟你質詢的，醫院的排放也不少啊！"],["彭部長啓明：很多、很多。"],["蘇委員清泉：衛福部這些專家學者應該沒有能力弄到這一塊啦，坦白講，這個還是你們比較專門，所以不要說這個是事業單位他們要自己去負責，你不能這樣子，以農業部為例，如果農業廢棄物要由農業部去負責，農業部哪有能力？到最後還是環境部最大，你最大啊！臺灣以後的環境要靠你啊！"],["彭部長啓明：是、是。"],["蘇委員清泉：好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我會跟邱部長討論這個事情。"],["蘇委員清泉：其次我要講小琉球的事，小琉球有兩個很嚴重的問題。第一個，小琉球有在推這種杯子，也就是循環杯，全臺灣用循環杯的才1%而已，這個我有data，但是小琉的data多少我不知道，所以你們可能要查一下給我資料。關於小琉球推的這種杯子，現在好像八十幾家餐廳以及賣涼水的業者有加入，但是我以醫生的角度來看，你看這個東西用一桶在那邊洗，除了清潔劑，還要人工、還要晾乾、還要烘乾、還要消毒，這樣會划算嗎？這個推得起來嗎？你們又沒有補助！"],["賴署長瑩瑩：有。"],["彭部長啓明：有，有補助。"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有啊！自備環保杯買東西就折扣五塊錢啊！然後循環杯是不是有污染？臺北不是有兩、三家麥當勞本來是用那個，但後來都收掉了，大家真的會怕啦！這要怎麼改善？"],["彭部長啓明：其實要鼓勵自己帶啦，第一個還是要鼓勵自己帶。這只是一個循環的方式，你沒有辦法帶的話，我們儘量用這個。因為小琉球那個地方，如果我們不這樣做的話，垃圾永遠沒辦法減量。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以衍生到第三個問題，關於小琉球現在的垃圾，部長，你知道他們是怎麼處理的嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：運回來臺灣。"],["蘇委員清泉：用袋子一個一個吊在船上載來臺灣。"],["彭部長啓明：是啊！"],["蘇委員清泉：有夠誇張的！你知道嗎？前一陣子根本沒有人要標，所以堆積如山，我不知道到底幾十萬噸，就很嚴重，臭氣沖天，下雨天就流下來，小琉球本來有一個焚化爐，那個焚化爐不能用嗎？為什麼不花點錢把它弄好？把垃圾從小琉球一袋一袋用太空包這樣吊到貨船上載回來屏東崁頂燒，你可以把焚化爐弄好嗎？那都是你們在出錢的嘛？全臺灣的焚化爐都是你們在出錢的。"],["彭部長啓明：對啊！報告委員，一個焚化爐運作要有一個量，小琉球雖然垃圾很多，可是如果一個焚化爐運作量又不夠，又養不起，這是最大的問題。"],["蘇委員清泉：那這樣的話，這個問題是無解的，因為它每次開標都沒有人要標，這次縣政府也強力介入，把環保車直接開到貨船上，把垃圾擠一擠塞在船上再載回來，再開去崁頂焚化爐，你要想一個辦法把它解決啦！這樣廠商如果覺得不划算……遇到颱風天什麼的怎麼辦？","我跟部長報告，去年登島的人差不多170萬人，今年可能會多一點，它一年賣船票來回兩百多萬張，所以很多人啦！小琉球any time都有兩、三萬人在那邊，現在就這樣啦！我們來排個考察去小琉球看看。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：真的要住一晚，那個很讚，還可以看綠蠵龜。所以小琉球的垃圾問題，部長你要想想看要如何解決。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，不是只有小琉球，還有離島的啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：對，離島。"],["彭部長啓明：我們都要一起來看。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個不解決真的不行啦！跨部會要協調，然後跟各個單位弄，我覺得你今天講的問題非常好！"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：但是成效不好，越搞廢棄物越多，所以你要有想法，看要怎麼做，我們會支持你啦！"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["蘇委員清泉：部裡面的預算搞多一點啦！"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["蘇委員清泉：像衛福部這麼多啦！好不好，以上，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：希望委員支持，謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：謝謝蘇清泉委員的發言。在這邊作一個宣告：等一下賴惠員委員質詢結束後，休息10分鐘。","現在請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","盧縣一","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","賴惠員","牛煦庭","林淑芬","廖偉翔","洪申翰","劉建國","陳冠廷","林俊憲","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","王育敏","鍾佳濱","涂權吉"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.105968750000001,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.45534375,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.075343750000002,"end":20.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.25971875,"end":23.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.094718750000002,"end":27.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.937843750000003,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.772843750000003,"end":32.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.852843750000005,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.74659375,"end":40.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.205968750000004,"end":50.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.84159375,"end":52.664093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.05221875,"end":54.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.92534375,"end":57.743468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.51534375000001,"end":62.46846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.97471875,"end":68.86409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.43784375,"end":82.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.19096875000001,"end":86.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.34659375000001,"end":92.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.45534375000001,"end":92.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.92784375000001,"end":93.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.17659375000001,"end":96.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.23096875,"end":97.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.96909375,"end":103.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.71096875,"end":105.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.30971875,"end":114.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.81471875000001,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.08409375000001,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.83909375,"end":122.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.71221875,"end":124.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.90596875000001,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.50909375,"end":135.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.34721875,"end":139.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.41409375,"end":142.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.19846875000002,"end":147.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.46784375000001,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.40846875,"end":151.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.01971875,"end":158.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.63909375,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.40221875,"end":165.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.16534375,"end":171.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.64534375000002,"end":173.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.83909375000002,"end":175.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.30721875,"end":184.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.55909375000002,"end":185.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.49971875,"end":196.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.99596875,"end":203.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.29971875,"end":197.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.45909375000002,"end":222.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.52346875,"end":229.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.19346875000002,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.48409375000003,"end":233.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.45409375000003,"end":238.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.55909375000002,"end":238.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.57596875000002,"end":240.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.45346875,"end":239.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.95971875,"end":245.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.83721875,"end":241.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.81971875000002,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.05159375000002,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啊很多很多"},{"start":311.661,"end":336.699,"text":"那衛福部這些專家學者應該沒有能力去弄到這一塊啦講坦白 這個還是你們專門齁所以不要說這個是事業單位他們就要自己去負責不能這樣做 要去農業部 農業廢棄物就農業部去負責 農業部才有能力到最後還是環保部 環境部最大 你最大台灣要 環境要靠你啊是是是"},{"start":338.56,"end":347.687,"text":"小琉球有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個小琉球有在推這個杯子循環杯全台灣用循環杯的才1%而已這個我有data但是小琉球的data多少我不知道"},{"start":366.28,"end":391.392,"text":"所以你們可能要查一下給我資料那小六九這個杯子現在好像八十幾家餐廳有還有賣量的有加入但是我以醫生的角度看這個東西你看用一桶在那邊洗洗一洗清潔劑人工還要晾乾還要烘乾還要消毒"},{"start":393.659,"end":419.881,"text":"這樣還會合嗎?這個推得起來嗎?你們有沒有補助?有補助。沒有啊,那邊自備環保杯買東西就折扣五塊錢啊。然後洗完杯是不是有感染啊、汙染啊。臺北不是有兩三家麥當勞本來用那個後來都收掉了。大家怕啦。真的會怕。這要怎麼改善?"},{"start":420.669,"end":442.528,"text":"其實要鼓勵自己帶啦第一個還是要鼓勵自己帶啦阿這個只是說一個循環的一個方式你沒有辦法帶的話我們盡量用這個因為小琉球那個地方如果我們不這樣做的話垃圾永遠沒辦法減量所以衍生到第三個問題小琉球現在的垃圾部長你覺得他要怎麼做運回來台灣用"},{"start":444.437,"end":454.875,"text":"用茶一個一個吊在家裡再來台灣這有夠誇張的你知道嗎前一陣子根本沒有人要飆啊所以呢"},{"start":456.445,"end":479.43,"text":"對於基如山 我不知道幾十萬棟就很嚴重臭氣沖天然後漏火都水水的來那小琉球本來有一個焚化爐那個焚化爐不能用嗎為什麼不花點錢把它弄好然後垃圾垃圾從小琉球一袋一袋用太空包這樣掉掉到火船上然後帶回來屏東燒砍點燒"},{"start":482.284,"end":499.127,"text":"你可以把那個焚化爐弄好嗎?那些都是你們出錢的嘛。全台的焚化爐也是你們出錢的。對啊。報告委員那個一個焚化爐運作齁要有一個量啦。啊小溜球雖然垃圾很多齁,啊可是如果一個焚化爐運作量又不夠啦。養不起。又養不起啦。這是最大的問題。"},{"start":499.676,"end":517.752,"text":"那你這樣的話,你這個問題是無解的因為他每開飆就沒有人要飆就這次縣政府也強力介入然後把那個環保車就直接開到貨船上,就把它塞塞一小粒球,然後再把它擠進去,然後再塞到船上再載回來,然後再塞到艦艇上你要想一個辦法把它解決啦這樣"},{"start":528.473,"end":530.555,"text":"我們要排個考察來小琉球看看"},{"start":558.075,"end":559.035,"text":"好。好。好。好。好。好。好。好。好。好。好。"},{"start":582.116,"end":582.596,"text":"希望委員支持 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}