{"error":false,"id":["153746"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153746,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153746","日期":"2024-06-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-06T11:55:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-06T12:08:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5eef69136518704cb9dbbe5275cafb4df8d38369fa36eb79ff7f6ec901b7cd90e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:55:45 - 12:08:40","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力－『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":627,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時55分）有請文化部李部長。"],["主席：請李部長。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：請教育部彭署長一起，可以嗎？"],["主席：有請彭署長。"],["吳委員春城：因為這個問題，我的題目就是文化部跟教育部是歧視高齡者的元兇嗎？這個罪名好像很大，但是我剛才有看到，我們今天談的臺語教育占文化部預算的5%，是嗎？但是我們有800萬的高齡者，占文化部文化預算當中的0.2%，部長如何來看待這兩件事情？臺語這件事情，5%大家都還嫌少，在輕重當中，你的想法是怎麼樣？"],["李部長遠：好，我回答一下，如果光是從預算看，好像0.2%很少，事實上文化部所有的館所，文化部所呈現的表演，譬如說我們下鄉表演，也有非常多的阿公、阿嬤帶著孩子看，我們這樣加起來的預算絕對不只0.2%。也許在分類上是0.2%，事實上整個文化部做出去的活動，我們的場館讓壯世代參與的，絕對不只0.2%。"],["吳委員春城：應該也是啦！但是那個叫做兼顧，未來應該有很大的努力空間，是嗎？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["吳委員春城：應該有努力的空間啦！另外，剛才提到文化是一個國家的靈魂，那這個靈魂不要太政治化啦！語言，我的臺語也非常好，我們家都講臺語，語言非常好，但是語言是生活，不是政治喔！剛才有太多人在討論，都把它政治化了。","另外一個，因為所有的文化只要跟政治太靠近，就是叫做劣等文化啦！歷代看起來，只要文化為政治服務，就像以前的反共八股、解放軍八股，那個時代所有的文化做出來，我們現在看起來都覺得可笑無比，希望我們這個時代所留下來的文化可以是經典之作，人類真善美光輝的文明，而不是都陷入在這裡，這也是提醒你啦！","接下來是我今天的主題，給你看一下影片。","（播放影片）"],["吳委員春城：好，看到這裡，因為沒時間。看起來年輕人都有志一同，他們所形容的老人，有人認為40歲是老人，有的是50歲，普遍的共識是50歲啦！我們的成語也是50歲就算半百老翁嘛！算是老人，然後他們會有這些反應嘛！現在50歲的，在座有多少人是這個樣子？部長，你會這樣子嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實我都70歲了，我還可以跟學生打籃球。"],["吳委員春城：對啊！但是為什麼大家這麼有共識？這一些是從哪裡來的？他們的觀念是從哪裡來？"],["李部長遠：其實我剛剛看那個畫面，我覺得是不可思議啦！"],["吳委員春城：不可思議喔？"],["李部長遠：對，就是難以想象那個……"],["吳委員春城：怎麼會不可思議？這個是……"],["李部長遠：就是文化上面對老人的歧視，應該還是回到文化。"],["吳委員春城：還是文化。"],["李部長遠：我覺得臺灣沒那麼嚴重。"],["吳委員春城：臺灣是全世界最嚴重的。"],["李部長遠：怎麼說呢？不會啦！"],["吳委員春城：我等一下會給你看數據，好不好？部長也承認，這些年齡歧視來自文化，後面有一個文化的背景，那你怕老嗎？部長，你怕老嗎？"],["李部長遠：我沒有怕過，我覺得越老越好。"],["吳委員春城：越老越好，對，你應該把這樣的觀念告訴大家，大家都怕老耶！所有的企業都要去老化，抗老啊！對不對？去老、抗老，很怕跟老沾到邊，為什麼？因為你可以知道，你假如去Google，你把「老」、「銀髮」輸入裡面，那個大數據依附過來的都是什麼？失智、健忘、依賴、體弱多病，不只身體有毛病，心理都有毛病，反正「老」就是一切負面的代名詞。","事實上，很多醫學證明，包括諾貝爾的得獎者，平均有8成都在60歲以上，都在60歲以上的得獎人。現在很多醫學證明，甚至包括創意，高齡者的創意都比年輕人好，因為創意是一種神經節的連結，它的連結資料庫更多，還有很多的策略，但是我們一般所想像的不是這個樣子，所以我們看起來，老是很負面的，這應該是來自文化。","WHO有關年齡歧視當中，有提出三項策略，第一項策略叫政策與法律，第二項叫教育的干預措施，第三項是代間接觸的干預措施，請問教育部跟文化部如何去減少年齡歧視的作為？問一下教育部。"],["顏副司長寶月：其實教育部在減少年齡歧視的部分，我們會透過代間的學習……"],["吳委員春城：你可不可以大聲一點？聽不到你的聲音。"],["顏副司長寶月：是，我們有透過代間學習的機制，比如說我們在大專院校，在樂齡大學裡面有相關的代間學習的課程，透過大專院校的學生跟我們樂齡學者的部分去共同學習某一個課程，其實我們一直認為……"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝，我知道了。但是我給你看一下，其實反歧視要從小做起啦！每一個年齡層，包括我有3個孫子，念小學的這一個，有一天畫了一幅圖帶去，老師問他：你畫誰啊？他說：畫爺爺、拿個拐杖。我問：我有拿拐杖嗎？他說：沒有。我說：既然沒有，為什麼你這樣畫？他說：因為在書本上的爺爺都會拿拐杖。對！這就是因為在很多資料中、從小的課本，也包括現在的繪本，對於老的描述、以老為主角者，大概只占1.69%，也就是老人在很多兒童繪本當中都不重要。而且73.74%是負面的形象，包括很多老妖，妖怪一定是老的嘛！巫婆一定是老的嘛！所以才有老巫婆、老妖怪什麼的，反正老的都是這類代表，而且會強化，從小開始植入以後還會一直影響到一輩子。這也就是我們臺灣教科書對於高齡形象的塑造，高齡者所扮演的主要角色大概都是祖父母、父母，還有鄉巴佬啦！還有悠閒人士、無事可做者。"],["顏副院長慶祥：跟委員做個回應，針對教科書這方面，我們會做個盤整跟檢視，提供給出版商做參考與建議。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝。"],["顏副院長慶祥：我做這樣的回應。"],["吳委員春城：對、對、對，謝謝你有注意到這個。","我們現在用大數據來看，如果是銀髮、高齡老人的大數據，大概會呈現出這樣子。至於談論壯世代時，出來的就是「時尚」、「質感」、「活動」，比較符合我們現在的真實情形，現在電影也有很多是壯世代的影片。也包括前一陣子張學友的演唱會爆滿，而張學友代表的就是壯世代產業，很多壯世代願意花錢。還包括壯世代美學─高齡美學啦！這是文化部應該重視的問題。針對每一個部會都在歧視高齡這個問題，上次已經講過很多次了，但還是要再次提醒，這個源頭來自教育跟文化，教育跟文化的確如同剛才提到的，而且是從小開始。","另外這個不是老人問題，但也要特別對教育部提到現在年輕人的情況。未來30年，臺灣就是全世界最高齡的，明年畢業的大學生會一腳就踏進高齡社會。而這些年輕人30歲的時候，臺灣會有一半的人超過50歲；這些年輕人40歲的時候，臺灣會有一半的人超過60歲。整體年輕人未來整個世界就是一輩子活在高齡社會，而這已經被定型化了。教育部要了解，對於未來的年輕人，不管要做企業、做產業、做服務，都應該讓他們研究高齡的需求，高齡美學、高齡設計這方面應該成為顯學，教育體系應該注意到這件事情。","這裡也要拜託教育部跟文化部，從現在出版品的作為、文化內容投資的設計到教育部教科書針對高齡教育的部分，可否在兩個月之內提出從文化跟教育方面改善高齡歧視的相關書面報告？可否？因為這個是重中之重，要先反歧視。如果停留在這裡，現在什麼幸福工程大計畫等等，背後所需要的有一千萬人口，高齡者、壯世代有五百萬，還包括年輕人，這麼龐大的人數，這是他們90%的日常生活都會碰到的問題，可否提出報告？部長，可以嗎？文化部可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：可以。"],["吳委員春城：就是說明如何在文化部減少高齡歧視。"],["李部長遠：可以、沒問題，我們都在做了。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝，那要提出報告喔！","另外，教育部可以嗎？"],["彭署長富源：剛剛這兩項也沒問題。"],["吳委員春城：可以喔？好的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員，部長、署長請回。","接下來先處理臨時提案。今天委員所提出的臨時提案有4案，請宣讀。","一、","案由：有鑒於國家語言發展法第四條指出，國家語言一律平等，國民使用國家語言不受歧視或限制。基於該法條主張，另，提供世界各國人士到臺灣學習中文、臺語之外，應將原住民族語定位等同推廣提升國際視野，成為外國人士學習及取得認證的重要語言。請於三個月內回覆立法院教育文化委員會。","提案人：林倩綺　　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　　柯志恩　　洪孟楷　　高金素梅","二、","為推動原住民族教育及辦理原住民族實驗學校，應完善教學現場各項制度。校長遴選制度為地方自治權限應予以尊重，惟原住民族實驗學校之校長的調動卻會牽動一個部落推動原住民族教育的希望，特別在獲得主管機關的籌備經費下進行各項籌備時的任何調動，將影響課程的實施是否如期辦理。","爰此，為如期推展原住民族教育及辦理原住民族實驗學校，請教育部審慎評估該項困境，請於一個月內提出研議報告送至本委員會及原住民籍立法委員。","提案人：林倩綺　　高金素梅　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　　柯志恩　　洪孟楷","三、","為解決長年族語師資不足之困境，應修正《高級中等以下學校原住民族語老師資格及聘用辦法》第二條規定：須取得原住民族語言能力認證測驗高級以上合格證書之門檻限制。","因高級以上認證之考試方式與部落及耆老脫節，故在原住民族委員會完善族語認證制度前請教育部先行修正，將高級以上合格證書改為中高級以上，有中高級以上之證書即可取得資格並參加甄選，但須在三年內取得高級以上證書，如未取得則取消專職師資。以比照《原住民族教育法》」第三十一條精神：原住民公費生資格須有中級以上之證書，畢業前則須取得中高級以上之證書。","請教育部於一個月內提出研議報告送至本委員會及原住民籍立法委員。","提案人：林倩綺　　柯志恩　　高金素梅　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　洪孟楷","四、","多數族人長年反映高級以上原住民族語言能力認證測驗之考試方式與部落、耆老脫節，導致多數耆老無法操作考試系統及理解命題思維，而遲遲未考取到高級以上合格證書，於是出現了最會說族語的耆老沒有國家認證、沒有教學資格的現象。","爰此，請原住民族委員會一個月內提出改善報告及精進措施送至本委員會及原住民籍立法委員。","提案人：林倩綺　　柯志恩　　高金素梅　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　洪孟楷"],["主席：有4個案子，我們從第1個案子來看。針對第1個案子，提案人有何補充說明？"],["林委員倩綺：這一案跟我早上所講的內容基本上是一致的，就是要作推動、開始啟動這個溝通平臺。"],["主席：是，可是第一個案子跟其他三個案子唯一不同的是沒有寫主責單位，你要請誰在三個月內給你回復？"],["林委員倩綺：這一案嗎？"],["主席：對，第1案。"],["林委員倩綺：教育部。"],["主席：所以是不是要加一下文字「教育部」？"],["林委員倩綺：「教育部」嗎？好。"],["主席：你要請教育部？好，若加文字要怎麼加？"],["彭署長富源：原則上是可以配合辦理。如果要加文字，可以在最後一行「請於」兩個字之間加字，也就是「請教育部於」。"],["主席：請教育部於三個月內？"],["彭署長富源：對，我們的國際司會一起處理。"],["主席：好，OK。這樣OK嗎？好，修正通過。","第2個案子，提案人有何要說明嗎？"],["林委員倩綺：如果教育部能辦理的話……"],["彭署長富源：我們來配合辦理。"],["主席：好，教育部也配合辦理。OK，照案通過。","第3個案子也是要求教育部？"],["林委員倩綺：對。"],["彭署長富源：對，我們也配合辦理，剛剛跟委員說明過了。"],["主席：好，那就照案通過。謝謝。","第4個案子，請原民會說明。"],["邱副處長文隆：我們配合委員的提案處理。"],["主席：好，所以就按照……"],["邱副處長文隆：但還是請委員修正成一個半月提出。"],["主席：一個半月？好，修正成一個半月？好，那就修正成一個半月，修正通過。謝謝。","接下來請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","林倩綺","萬美玲","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林俊憲","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","吳春城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","黃仁","陳冠廷"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1135902","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135902_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力\n─ 『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135902_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.55409375,"end":1.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.52846875,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.4353437499999995,"end":4.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.73909375,"end":5.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.480968750000002,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.927218750000002,"end":17.766593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.17159375,"end":22.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.89221875,"end":25.984718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.15784375,"end":26.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.92534375,"end":32.650343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.20721875,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.30346875,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.72471875,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.23409375,"end":50.774093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.398468750000006,"end":54.250343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.790343750000005,"end":55.229093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.735343750000006,"end":59.346593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.81909375,"end":60.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.57409375,"end":71.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.49221875,"end":77.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.47034375,"end":80.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.38971875,"end":95.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.43596875,"end":81.52034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.99909375,"end":108.09846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.73971875000001,"end":112.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.72221875000001,"end":114.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.03409375000001,"end":115.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.43034375,"end":122.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.20159375,"end":133.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.10284375,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.27534375000002,"end":138.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.11471875,"end":176.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.94846875000002,"end":188.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.39784375000002,"end":193.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.49471875,"end":194.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.42659375000002,"end":199.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.16846875000002,"end":200.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.21909375,"end":200.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.23596875,"end":200.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.53971875000002,"end":200.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.91096875000002,"end":200.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.96159375000002,"end":201.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.09221875,"end":204.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.25221875000003,"end":206.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.59784375,"end":207.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.76221875000002,"end":208.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.09534375,"end":210.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.41159375,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.55471875,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.57159375,"end":213.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.29721875,"end":213.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.31409375,"end":213.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.56721875000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.10284375,"end":215.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.19971875000002,"end":221.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.83596875,"end":224.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.43284375000002,"end":239.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.43096875,"end":250.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.62346875000003,"end":261.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.69471875,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.26409375000003,"end":263.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.97284375000004,"end":285.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.31534375,"end":292.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.26784375,"end":293.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.16221875,"end":303.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.93284375,"end":305.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.32909375,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.03784375000004,"end":307.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.10534375000003,"end":307.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.42596875000004,"end":314.0072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如果官司從預算看好像0.2很少那事實上文化部的所有的管所文化部所曾經的表演比如說我們下鄉表演也非常多的阿公阿嬤帶著孩子看我們這樣加起來的預算絕對不只0.2也許在"},{"start":96.172,"end":96.512,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":117.509,"end":121.091,"text":"另外一個就是說我們文化剛才提到文化是一個國家的靈魂那這個靈魂不要太政治化"},{"start":137.318,"end":140.08,"text":"另外的一個就是因為所有的文化只要跟政治太靠近"},{"start":159.073,"end":159.113,"text":"主題報告．"},{"start":190.424,"end":191.665,"text":"好,我先來看…Hey, how are you doing?"},{"start":191.665,"end":194.146,"text":"You can stand right there, that's your mark."},{"start":194.146,"end":196.407,"text":"How are you doing?"},{"start":196.407,"end":197.147,"text":"I'm great, how are you?"},{"start":197.147,"end":197.247,"text":"Great."},{"start":197.247,"end":200.308,"text":"Just tell us your first name and your age."},{"start":200.308,"end":202.149,"text":"My real age?"},{"start":202.149,"end":204.33,"text":"My name is Paolo, I'm 25 years old."},{"start":204.33,"end":206.071,"text":"My name is Daniela, and I'm 19.24.35."},{"start":206.071,"end":208.072,"text":"31.33.I'm 26 years old."},{"start":208.072,"end":213.194,"text":"What age do you consider to be old?"},{"start":213.194,"end":213.775,"text":"Late 40s."},{"start":213.775,"end":214.135,"text":"Maybe 50?"},{"start":216.152,"end":217.412,"text":"I feel like 30s and 20s."},{"start":217.412,"end":219.113,"text":"I'd say like 40s old."},{"start":219.113,"end":239.157,"text":"I'd probably say 50s.I'd like you to show me how an old person would cross the street.Show me how an old person would send a text message."},{"start":248.49,"end":250.71,"text":"How might an old person do a push-up?"},{"start":260.258,"end":284.255,"text":"看到這裡因為沒時間這個看起來年輕人都有志異同認為所形容的老人有人認為說40歲是老人有的大概就50歲普遍的共識是50歲啦我們的成語也是50歲就半白老翁嘛算老人然後他們會有這些反應嘛"},{"start":287.578,"end":305.015,"text":"現在50歲的在座的有多少人是這個樣子?部長你會這樣子嗎?其實我都70歲了我還可以跟學生打籃球對啊但是為什麼大家這麼有共識這些是從哪裡來的?他們的觀念是從哪裡來的?"},{"start":306.437,"end":307.858,"text":"臺灣是全世界最嚴重的,我等一下會給你看數據。"},{"start":333.038,"end":342.969,"text":"那部長也承認這些年齡歧視來自文化後面有一個文化的背景那這個你怕老嗎?部長你怕老嗎?"},{"start":347.045,"end":367.981,"text":"我沒有怕過,我覺得越老越好越老越好,對,你應該把這樣的觀念告訴大家大家都怕老欸,所有的企業都要去老化,抗老啊對不對,去老抗老啊,這個什麼很怕跟老真的有變,為什麼因為你可以知道你只要去google,你只要google你把老"},{"start":370.243,"end":391.254,"text":"這樣子引發輸入裡面那個大數據依附過來的都是什麼失智、健忘、依賴、體弱、多病然後這個不管身體有毛病心理都有毛病反正老就是一切負面的代名詞事實上很多醫學證明其實包括諾貝爾的得獎者平均"},{"start":395.919,"end":408.972,"text":"平均大概有八成都在60歲以上的得獎人包括現在很多醫學證明甚至包括在創意高齡者的創意都比年輕人好"},{"start":409.957,"end":410.097,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":426.195,"end":446.477,"text":"WHO有關年齡歧視當中有提出三項策略第一項策略叫政策與法律第二項叫教育的干預措施第三個就是待接觸的那請問教育部跟文化部有如何去減少年齡歧視的作為問一下教育部"},{"start":449.597,"end":474.896,"text":"跟委員報告,其實教育部在有關於減少年齡歧視的部分其實我們會透過有關於代監的一個學習你會大聲一點,聽不到你的聲音我們有透過那個代監學習的這樣子一個機制比如說我們在大專業院校在任寧大學裡面其實有相關的一個代監學習的課程我們是透過大專業院校的學生跟我們的任寧學者的部分去共同學習某一個課程其實我們一直認為說"},{"start":476.637,"end":502.336,"text":"我知道,但是我給你看一下其實這個反歧是要從小做歧每一個年齡層包括我有三個孫子我有三個孫子這個念小學的這個老師叫他他有一天帶了一個畫了一個我說你畫誰啊他說畫爺爺拿個拐杖我說我有拿拐杖嗎"},{"start":504.005,"end":530.436,"text":"他說沒有啊沒有為什麼你這樣話他說因為書本上爺爺都會拿拐杖那對這個就是我們很多其實從小的課本當中來這個因為很多資料包括我們現在的繪本當中對老的的描述了齁那這一個以老為主角的齁大概只佔只佔這個多少"},{"start":532.945,"end":560.731,"text":"1.69%的老人在這個很多的兒童繪本當中都不重要而且73.74%是負面的形象是老所以包括我們很多老妖怪一定是老的嘛巫婆一定是老的嘛所以有老巫婆然後什麼所以反正老的都代表不所以包括老妖怪什麼這個兒童會強化而且這個變成從小開始直入了以後到一直一輩子"},{"start":562.644,"end":580.549,"text":"這就是我們台灣的教科書對高齡者形象的塑造大概高齡者扮演的主要的角色都是祖父母、父母還有鄉里、鄉巴勞還有就是悠閒人士,無事可做的"},{"start":581.668,"end":593.187,"text":"請委員做個回應有關教科書這方面我們會來做個盤整跟檢視提供給出版商來做一個參考跟建議做這樣的回應 謝謝"},{"start":598.018,"end":611.313,"text":"有關我們現在用大數據,如果引發高齡老人的大數據,大概會呈現出這樣子。如果你談入壯世代,它出來的就是時尚質感活動,比較符合我們現在的真真實。"},{"start":614.994,"end":636.55,"text":"高齡這就是那個電影現在很多就是壯世代的影片包括前一陣子張學友這個爆滿張學友這個代表就是壯世代產業很多壯世代願意花錢包括壯世代的美學高齡美學啦這個應該是文化部應該去重視的問題"},{"start":639.882,"end":653.41,"text":"每一個部會都在歧視這上次已經有講過講過很多次了還是再次提醒這個源頭來自於教育跟文化所以教育文化的確剛才要提到了而且是從小開始"},{"start":655.184,"end":669.791,"text":"另外這個不是老人問題這個也提到特別對教育部現在年輕人未來30年就台灣就是全世界最高的這明年畢業的大學生一腳就踏進高齡社會"},{"start":670.931,"end":670.951,"text":"委員會議長"},{"start":704.616,"end":716.351,"text":"教育部跟文化部從現在出盤評的作為文化內容投資的設計還有教育部在教科書在高齡教育的部分"},{"start":717.56,"end":738.19,"text":"可否請兩個在兩個月之內提出高齡改善高齡歧視的文化跟教育方面的這些書面報告可否因為這個是重中之重因為先反歧視因為如果停留在這裡我們現在什麼幸福工程大計畫"},{"start":739.07,"end":739.11,"text":"吳春城"},{"start":753.735,"end":753.995,"text":"吳春城委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}