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誒說真的啦 這個兩位都是 這個從公路總局到公路局齁 這個也是我們前局長 現任的局長 你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊 尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊 我看是從之前的時代一路到現在"},{"start":37.378,"end":53.956,"text":"我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的"},{"start":56.318,"end":79.712,"text":"他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎"},{"start":81.431,"end":82.292,"text":"所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?"},{"start":108.646,"end":111.111,"text":"因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多"},{"start":120.734,"end":139.861,"text":"哇 右邊這是1、2年9月 去年9月 這次還沒有大崩塌之前 也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥 你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果 然後這面積多大啊 邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網 啊這麼大"},{"start":142.304,"end":168.593,"text":"然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛"},{"start":169.133,"end":193.471,"text":"而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛"},{"start":194.301,"end":198.764,"text":"所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個"},{"start":218.237,"end":246.206,"text":"你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的"},{"start":247.466,"end":271.714,"text":"可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份"},{"start":273.345,"end":296.415,"text":"你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理"},{"start":298.275,"end":315.896,"text":"我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣"},{"start":316.357,"end":316.377,"text":"〔記者訪問〕"},{"start":347.017,"end":348.058,"text":"我告訴你這工程9月21日完工"},{"start":377.138,"end":394.532,"text":"112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害"},{"start":399.142,"end":422.292,"text":"然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年"},{"start":423.112,"end":445.651,"text":"他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊"},{"start":446.892,"end":469.822,"text":"沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。"},{"start":475.556,"end":499.151,"text":"這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編"},{"start":502.501,"end":529.179,"text":"講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎"},{"start":531.179,"end":548.801,"text":"我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。"},{"start":549.682,"end":561.416,"text":"剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?"},{"start":563.803,"end":564.964,"text":"五點七二一的是設備那這個設備"},{"start":589.48,"end":591.041,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":606.424,"end":621.738,"text":"當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的"},{"start":622.959,"end":626.542,"text":"你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?"},{"start":645.516,"end":661.39,"text":"就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去"},{"start":663.291,"end":663.711,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":685.326,"end":700.933,"text":"進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊"},{"start":706.463,"end":722.881,"text":"大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢"},{"start":727.403,"end":754.554,"text":"大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的..."},{"start":756.115,"end":760.372,"text":"真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}