{"error":false,"id":["153777"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153777,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153777","日期":"2024-06-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-07T15:29:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-07T15:59:54+08:00","影片長度":"00:30:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e282241afdc5f965d463a4d3464892865b03adaedb4d9a025efa60ce6e134d006f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"15:29:04 - 15:59:54","會議時間":"2024-06-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。 \n二、6月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月11日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":1215,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（15時29分）謝謝主席，本席請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長好，首先恭喜您就任我們新政府的行政院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們新的總統、賴總統的就職演說，本席有看、也有聆聽，對於賴總統所演說的內容，我們是非常的期待，但是我們也希望政府的施政能夠如賴總統說的，能夠行公義、好憐憫，也能夠存謙卑的心，最重要的是視民如親。我們賴總統也說新政府一定會兢兢業業，拿出最好的表現，施政也會不斷地革新，創臺灣政治的新風貌。所以今天的總質詢，本席想就幾個我們臺灣大的面向、一些問題，也是我們民眾最重視的，您也是我當立委的前輩，你也當過兩屆，我們立法委員都是帶著民眾的期望跟民眾的反映來到立法院，所以首先第一個就是臺灣如果能夠安全，特別是兩岸和平，我相信臺灣也才能夠長治久安，本席在地方走，也聽到很多的民眾最期盼的就是兩岸和平，在賴總統的就職演說裡面，我看了一下，針對臺海的情勢也提了6次的兩岸和平，提到6次，所以我相信這個應該也是賴總統非常非常重視的，所以賴總統有特別提到兩岸和平有四大支柱，所以今天本席想來請教，首先，第一個四大支柱是強化國防力量，這個強化國防力量，我們一般對強化國防力量是不是我們要跟對岸軍備競賽嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您回答是或不是。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，不是的話，那這個國防力量，你指的是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：就像我們在家裡要裝鐵窗一樣，也是保障家裡的安全。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你軍備還是有嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：還是有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那請問，打仗也要有兵，你募得到足夠的兵源嗎？你的國防力量、你的兵源在哪裡？那我們現代化又需要很多專業的兵源，請教院長，您覺得兵源足夠嗎？你就回答這樣就好，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：兵應該是在精而不是在多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以兵源我們募得到嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是要募到精兵。"],["徐委員欣瑩：目前看起來是募不到嘛！所以第一個……"],["顧部長立雄：我們有加強這個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，有加強，我知道，大家都在努力，可是這個強化國防力量裡面，我們軍備競賽也沒辦法跟別人、跟對岸競爭……"],["顧部長立雄：我們是比較強調以不對稱作戰的思維。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的兵源也不夠，然後您說的沒錯，需要精嘛！兵在精不在多，但是有的時候也是要多啦！專業的兵源我們也募不到，所以本席看到目前第一根支柱強化國防力量應該是沒有……"],["卓院長榮泰：是有的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：應該是不具備，應該是倒了。"],["顧部長立雄：我想國軍的自我防衛能力是有的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這是第一個，我想這個大家可以來公論。"],["顧部長立雄：委員不能夠否定國軍的努力。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我當然沒有否定，但是我們臺灣目前就不足嘛！第二個，我們賴總統說建構經濟安全，而且賴總統說經濟安全的部分要發展五大信賴產業，目前臺灣的情況在經濟的部分，缺水、缺電、缺工、缺地、缺人才，五缺問題，我首先請教院長，您上任之後，您覺得五缺問題能夠解決嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：五缺的問題……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以嗎？你覺得可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定要解決。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一定要解決，所以可以解決，但是我們看到的現況是五缺一直沒有解決，至少現況沒有解決，所以再加上我們兩岸問題有地緣風險，所以造成外國政府、廠商強制地讓臺灣優質產業外移，這個是目前的情況，所以我們這樣看起來……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們現在電跟水都沒有缺，人才是全世界都在搶，我們當然也要搶，地我們盡量把它盤整出來……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以建構經濟安全的第二根支柱，我看目前也是不穩、也是倒了。再來第三點，我們賴總統提到，展現穩定而有原則的兩岸關係領導能力，這很長的一個第三根支柱，我每個字都看得懂，可是合在一起，我實在不太懂這個是什麼？展現穩定而有原則的兩岸關係領導能力，院長，你可以簡單用幾秒鐘讓我們知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是兩岸領導人要有誠意跟善意來面對共同的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以我們的賴總統，這個是呼籲嘛！因為對岸的……"],["卓院長榮泰：要共同努力。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我看我們臺灣跟對岸，當然新政府剛上任，至少在過去八年幾乎是不溝通、不協調、不往來，幾乎都沒有對話，所以我們發現這部分的第三根支柱也倒了。","最後第四點，我們賴總統提到第四根支柱是推動價值外交，當然本席相信價值外交不限於民主價值，也涵蓋貿易、科技、農業，甚至我們教育、文化，任何只要是我們跟各國彼此認可、認同的價值。但是這個價值外交，我們發現只要兩岸關係不降溫，臺灣和其他國家的外交關係好像就很難突破，我們看到從民國98年到105年，連續八年我們可以參加WHA，但是我們從106年開始就沒辦法，2024年我們衛福部也在參加世界衛生大會上報告說，WHA屈從政治壓力而未邀我與會。我想國際的現實確實不容易，就像我們生活在社會上也有社會的現實，所以未來我們的新政府、我們賴總統的團隊、我們卓院長的行政院團隊怎麼樣有智慧的讓我們兩岸和平？我現在講第四大支柱，我們的第四大支柱感覺上也是倒了，所以我們賴總統提的四大支柱好像都倒了。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，今天最後一天，COMPUTEX還在臺北展覽，如果你等一下可以到現場去，你會感受到滿滿的科技跟經濟力，有很多國防所需的專業都在裡面，你可以把這幾根支柱再扶起來。"],["顧部長立雄：所以我也不同意我們的國防力量沒有在強化……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望……"],["顧部長立雄：我們一直在強化我們的國防力量。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我是希望未來，因為賴總統剛上任，我希望未來我們可以看到，我們臺灣大家是一體的，我當然希望我們臺灣兩岸和平的四大支柱可以站起來、可以屹立不搖，我們大家共同的希望就是兩岸和平。"],["卓院長榮泰：這需要大院跟行政院跟全國人民一起來努力。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我們一定會一起努力。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只要腳步一致、方向一致、團結一起，我們一定可以做得比現在好很多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我也希望，所以未來我們希望看出新政府的誠意。最後，因為我們的兩岸關係有所謂的大陸委員會，過去我們發現大陸委員會好像都變成大陸宣傳委員會，我剛剛講現在等於是不溝通、不交流、不協調，也不對談、互不往來，但是我們發現陸委會在臉書上的廣告，有年輕人傳給我，它的廣告費用好像是所有部會在臉書廣告費用上所看到算比較多的、最多的，所以我們不希望陸委會沒有實質的作為，反而變成大陸宣傳委員會，只是不斷對內做各種的宣傳，我們希望有實質的行動。有關兩岸和平，本席因為時間的關係就到這裡，我們謝謝各位部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：陸委會有很多的工作，它不只在做宣傳。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是只有在做內宣。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，但是我們看到的宣傳，大部分都是用喊話跟宣傳。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們一定撙節費用。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，本席要接著請教院長第二個問題，我相信您一定很清楚現在全臺灣詐騙的問題。院長，您覺得嚴不嚴重？"],["卓院長榮泰：我講過很多次，詐騙集團……"],["徐委員欣瑩：嚴不嚴重就好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟國人一樣都深惡痛絕。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我們現在只要大家聚在一起，一講到詐騙，每個人都有例子，我的誰或是我周圍的誰，不是親戚就是朋友，所以我們臺灣變成詐騙者的天堂，這個問題我們一定要想辦法，當然本席也看到院長您有宣示，「五打七安」裡面最重要的就是打詐。打詐的問題非常多，我相信您也知道，但有一點很重要，本席以一個例子來說，我相信所有委員都一樣，我們常常接到民眾受到詐騙，他們就找立委，其中有一個網路虛擬貨幣的詐騙，我們接到民眾反映之後，我們打給警察單位，結果接電話的警察說這個好像是國外的，就是這個詐騙整個網路是在國外，那個警察就電話接起來說：這個真的沒辦法，這個跨國沒辦法，我告訴你，我自己也被騙了100萬。所以您看這種詐騙的情況多麼嚴重，警察人員也束手無策，自己被騙也摸摸鼻子。所以兩岸問題是臺灣民眾安全的問題，那這個是財產安全，既然這個影響這麼大，我們看到第一線的檢察官，我不知道院長有沒有聽說有個叫「劍青檢改」，第一線偵辦詐騙的檢察官他們整個組合起來，而且不是一個地檢署，各個地檢署檢察官聯合起來，他們說從他們工作上的經驗，他們點名金管會、NCC還有數發部是打詐國家隊的三大戰犯，當然你們都才剛剛接任，所以讓你們瞭解，我們剛剛講碰到詐騙，第一個，金管會不列管虛擬貨幣，然後數發部不列管網路詐騙，警政署說這個詐騙是金管會跟數發部的職責，所以人民被騙，求告無門，像這種情況非常普遍，所以本席想請教院長，是不是可以跨部會整合，而且非常有決心的來做這件事？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們現在做的就是這個方向，所以打詐四法，希望大院儘快通過，通過之後，我們就從源頭去溯源，平臺去追究他的責任，以及幣商好好的管理，這個部分，我想彭主委，他一定會有更好的方法提供給委員。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，有院長的回答，我覺得就夠了。而且我們也希望院長您說到就全力去做，大家一定要一起把詐騙驅離臺灣，我們臺灣不要變成詐騙的天堂，尤其我想慢慢的明年、後年我們都可以看，民眾去年詐騙統計得到的數字就八十九億多，我相信黑數非常多，光是我周圍的人，我覺得有很多根本都沒有被政府統計到。","剛剛院長有講到打詐四法，剛好在前天內政委員會審查詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案，這個草案本身應該要整合，可是這個草案裡面牽涉到的各個部會，他們還是各司其職。我們在審這個法案的時候，本席也有提一個最後的附帶決議，因為我們看到行政院版還是分崩離析，各司其職，所以本席提了附帶決議，希望能夠請院長親自督導、溝通協調各部會，管考落實，降低詐騙，院長可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：除了各部會之外，我們還有政委負責在督導，我一定隨時掌握狀況，讓他可以在最快的速度內產生最好的效率。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席很開心聽到您這樣講，當然因為你也知道我們每半年就會相遇一次。"],["卓院長榮泰：隨時可見。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們希望可以看到成績。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，隨時可以見。"],["徐委員欣瑩：再來，本席接下來要請教院長，之前看到賴清德總統到新竹為殉職的兩位警消人員上香，所以本席想請教院長，您知道到底現在消防人員最大的問題是什麼嗎？我還沒有要請院長回答，就是我們不時會聽到，這新聞會報導，既然我們賴總統說要視民如親，所以我們政府能做的是什麼，要知道真正問題所在，不要再有下一個消防弟兄殉職，而且他們都非常的年輕，他們也都是人家父母手上的心肝寶貝，本席在這裡要特別強調，其實全國的警消弟兄都知道，我們現在消防人員非常、非常地不足。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以院長也瞭解。我們看一下去年112年，112年需要955個名額，可是我們最後只錄取了351個，在政府治理上，現在院長也接手了，我們要想辦法。院長，有一句話，我相信我們的年代應該都講得出，我說上一句，您說下一句，天下無難事，下一句話。"],["卓院長榮泰：只怕有心人。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，但是我們看到我們的政府，幾年下來，我看到的是天下無難事，只要肯放棄，放棄了就沒事，所有事情甩鍋，兩手一攤，天下無難事啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，委員……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是受苦的都是我們民眾，受苦的都是我們民眾。"],["卓院長榮泰：警消人員都是社會安全的支柱，我們一定不會放棄警消人員的權益保障。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您看一下，錄取率與需求在過去10年來，真正有符合的才多少？紅字全部是缺少的，缺到去年112年到一個極致，其實去年12月本席在參選的期間，就在我選區的一位消防弟兄也是殉職，而且他是分隊長，就是因為人員不足，他自己進去，最後殉職了，然後不到半年，新竹又兩位。所以本席要強調的是都知道這麼缺了，為什麼不加強來招收？我們看最後報考人數1,910人，其他往年再怎麼樣，招到3,000人，也只錄取了五百多人；我們要955人，招考到1,910人。今天如果是一個企業的話，我要那麼多人，剩下兩個禮拜，甚至剩一個月就要報考截止了，我看到沒有人，我會想盡辦法宣傳。就像貴黨，你要選票，你要想盡辦法宣傳，選票不夠的時候，就要想辦法宣傳，為什麼我們消防弟兄人員不足，我們不能想辦法宣傳？我們想辦法讓更多人知道，讓更多有志者來參加，這一塊我們真心覺得一定要改，儘快改善，因為全國的消防人員都不足，而人員不足所造成的惡性循環就是現在消防弟兄全部都是工作過度繁重，所以提早退休的一堆人，還有中途離職的也一堆。因為這樣惡性循環，我們消防弟兄真的是很可憐。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們也非常痛心，跟委員一樣，消防弟兄遭到這樣的不幸，當天我到現場去上香的時候，我們已經談到人力的問題，但是我也不敢要求他說考試的制度要做怎麼樣的放寬，我們還是維持水準，所以我們的人手……"],["徐委員欣瑩：等一下，院長，您說的已經是到中後端了，我現在講的是當招收不足的時候，你在前面已經看到了，我們現在可以問一下全國民眾，甚至部會首長，如果你誠實摸著良心，你什麼時候看到各個媒體或是你有看過消防人員招考？沒有嘛！我們有沒有印象？有印象當兵的、有印象警察的、有印象什麼的，你就沒有好好地宣傳招考啊！所以這一塊可不可以改善？我們加強宣傳、加強來招考。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們一定會這樣做。"],["卓院長榮泰：當天內政部也在現場，我們都有提到這個問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是。"],["劉部長世芳：可以，我們可以加強這個部分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，能夠瞭解太好了，因為現在全國只期待看到我們新政府上任是不是可以改善這個問題。"],["劉部長世芳：我們一定要來進行改善，而且已經跟考試院有進行溝通，希望在分科配比上面可以調整。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，本席拭目以待。","接著第四個部分也是要為全民請命的，就是全民健保的問題。其實全民健保是我們臺灣的驕傲，更是全臺灣人民健康的守護制度，但是多年實行下來，我相信院長一定也瞭解，加上我們的賴總統本身就是醫生出身，所以醫界的很多聲音我相信總統一定也清楚。","長期下來，我們的健保發生幾個問題非常嚴重，第一個，我們因為總額設定的成長率──也就是大家通稱的總額天花板太低了！不符合實際國民對於健康的需求與期待，還有醫療體系的成本與服務無法反映，無法反映它的成本跟服務，造成醫護人員的薪資不能合理反映他服務的辛勞與專業。我們臺灣的醫療大家都非常的驕傲，我們真的要非常感謝這些在崗位上的醫護人員，本席對他們是非常的敬佩與敬重！只是我們的制度真的虧欠他們太多了。","第二個問題，有關醫療資源和鼓勵措施，錯誤的配置還有齊頭式的平等，這些觀念作祟造成了「四大皆空」的現象，所以困難、容易有爭議的手術、科別以及照護，大家避之唯恐不及！對，我們的部長一定很清楚，因為您本身也是醫師，因此造成了醫療機構以及護理師們的氣餒，還有轉職的現象！這是第二點。","第三點，現代科技進步再加上通貨膨脹，所以醫療器材還有藥品的價格當然無日不漲，現在萬物齊漲嘛，所以在健保的情況下一定會砍價，砍價的結果就造成有的藥品跟醫材不再進入臺灣，因為我們是健保制度嘛，這個表面上看起來是在為人民把關，實際上不一定造福於人民！","我相信健保問題很複雜、很多，也不是我們在這裡總質詢可以談完的，但是日前我們看到公立醫院的兩大院長都站出來講話，他們真的是發出整個醫界共同的心聲，所以本席在這裡針對各方對於健保的意見，還有很多問題很複雜，可是為了臺灣人民、能夠守護我們臺灣人民健康長長久久的健保制度，我們一定要想辦法解決這些問題，請問院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長回答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，請問院長，本席想提議，能不能請總統召開健保國是會議，儘速研議對策來挽救這個守護全臺灣人民健康的制度？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，日前總統已經參與了健康臺灣全國論壇，往後我們從健康憲章以及健康臺灣深耕計畫當中，會逐年地來落實健康臺灣論壇當中所訂下的十大要點。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是我們健保的問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：當然其中有提到、注意到。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有我們醫護人員的這些問題，特別是健保的總額制一定要想辦法改進！"],["卓院長榮泰：部長要不要回答？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝，跟委員簡單報告。"],["徐委員欣瑩：簡答，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：健康臺灣論壇其實……"],["徐委員欣瑩：健康臺灣就……"],["邱部長泰源：已經開6場了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們健保的問題一定要解決，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：其中最重要的一個就是健保的改革。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席就是提議，我們覺得這個問題太大了！"],["邱部長泰源：對，一定要改革。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一定要請總統……我們希望能夠召開國是會議！"],["邱部長泰源：而且要針對……"],["徐委員欣瑩：召開國是會議，然後我們一定要想辦法重視這個問題，因為我們在座的每一個人都是肉身，我們沒有人可以置外於身體的健康。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，容許我向委員報告一句話，過去三十年來臺灣人民受健保制度的保障，我一直認為現在是我們全國力量要回過頭來保障健保制度的時代，我們要做各種努力。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我也認同，所以我們共同來解決這個問題！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝。","接下來本席要就勞保年金，勞保年金這個也是關乎廣大的勞工、全國一千多萬的勞工，勞保年金在過去八年只有開會蒐集意見，沒有任何的改革作為！","院長，我想你應該知道勞動部何部長有說撥補就是改革，總統在就職典禮也有說只要政府在，勞保絕對不會倒，這個是不是就是撥補的意思？請問院長同不同意何部長說撥補就是改革這句話？"],["卓院長榮泰：撥補就是撥補。"],["徐委員欣瑩：撥補就是撥補，好！再來請教院長，我們經濟部長郭部長也很勇敢的說，他站在一個CEO的立場不支持補貼台電，認為電價一定要反映成本。院長，全國有兩千三百多萬人都要用電，撥補一千多萬的勞保，只有撥補，那請問電價的部分，請問郭部長是要學何部長，還是他應該要照他的？所以本席要請教院長，台電要不要撥補？如果不撥補，能不能承諾電價不會反覆調漲？"],["卓院長榮泰：很多的國際因素跟政策目標，台電承擔了很大的包袱，所以我們要讓台電……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以現在本席想問的是，能不能承諾電價不會反覆調漲？"],["卓院長榮泰：電價是經過審議委員會在處理的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以不要反覆調漲，因為已經漲一波，民眾已經受不了了，萬物齊漲，最後會壓垮老百姓，這個就像海嘯一樣，整個來會受不了。"],["卓院長榮泰：政府一向的想法是不變動民生用電的大原則，增加用戶大電的負擔，這個是一向的方向，以後也是朝這個方向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後本席還是要拉回到勞保年金，我們年年撥補，本席建議，因為我們看整個撥補下來已經2,670億元了，所以本席建議，就這個撥補的部分，政府能夠將最終支付責任入法，可不可以入法，院長同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個基金的水位，目前有一些比較好的發展，我們請部長來跟您報告。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您是否同意我們保障全國的勞工，我們讓勞保的撥補能夠有最終支付責任入法？"],["卓院長榮泰：政府一定會負最終責任。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，但是我們要有所憑據、要有所依據啊！可不可以入法？行政院來擬訂。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個在行政作為上面，一定把它列為很優先的考慮。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以會積極來做，好，謝謝。最後本席還要就教一個，也是我們很快要實施的國土計畫法，院長您應該也瞭解，預計要實施國土計畫法，對我們全國的民眾造成非常多的民怨。本席在這裡要特別提醒院長，過去的教改被人家質疑的就是坐在冷氣房裡，昧於現況，不符合實際需求，都是一些理想，然後實施下去，結果學生家長哀聲連連，現在國土計畫法已經有一點類似這樣了。","關於國土計畫法，我們在地方上聽到非常多的聲音，比如說特農就是良田，所以實際上被國土計畫法、你在辦公室劃為特農的良田沒有水可以灌溉，然後真正的良田拿去蓋房子，民眾覺得良田應該拿來種水稻啊！還有，在國土計畫法裡面被劃為山坡地保育的土地其實是平地，可是它被劃為森林保護區，然後國土計畫法裡面最哀聲連連的就是我們的農民，他辛苦工作賺不到錢，希望國家能夠輔導他機械化，想要務農的人，他的土地又不一定被劃為農地，所以本席的重點就是國土計畫法不要憑空想像，要到地方去聽取地方的聲音，院長可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會持續溝通，內政部已經在努力了。"],["劉部長世芳：對，現在的使用方式跟原來都沒有改變。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，只要從事農業，所有的相關作為是完全沒有變的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，這有很多問題，所以一定要去第一線瞭解。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會持續跟地方溝通。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員，也謝謝卓院長。","接下來請郭委員國文質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-17","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","鄭天財Sra 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哇這很長的一個第三根支柱。 我每個字都看得懂可是合在一起我實在不太懂這個是什麼。 展現穩定而有原則的兩岸關係領導能力。 院長你可以簡單的用幾秒鐘跟我們講。 就是兩岸領導人要有誠意跟善意來面對共同的問題。"},{"start":336.793,"end":362.006,"text":"所以我們的賴總統這個是呼籲嘛這個是呼籲因為對岸的我看我們台灣跟對岸當然新政府剛上任至少在過去8年幾乎是不溝通不協調不往來幾乎都沒有對話所以呢我們發現這個部分第三根支柱也倒了第三根支柱也倒"},{"start":362.726,"end":384.346,"text":"最後第四點我們賴總統提到的第四根支柱推動價值外交當然價值外交本席相信不限於民主價值也涵蓋了貿易科技農業甚至我們教育文化任何只要是我們跟各國彼此認可認同的價值"},{"start":385.106,"end":385.567,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":402.689,"end":424.427,"text":"從民國98年到105年,連續8年我們可以參加WHA,但是我們從106年開始就沒辦法。最近我們的衛福部2024也在參加世界衛生大會上報告說,WHA屈從政治壓力而為邀我與會。"},{"start":427.809,"end":427.909,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":448.503,"end":474.475,"text":"兩岸的和平,剛剛第四大,現在講第四大支柱,所以我們第四大支柱呢,感覺上也是倒了,所以我們派總統提的四大支柱好像都倒了。跟委員報告,今天最後一天Computex還在台北展覽,如果你等一下可以到現場去,你感受到那滿滿的科技跟經濟力,它也很多的國防所需的專業都在裡面,你可以把這個支柱再把它扶起來。"},{"start":474.815,"end":500.585,"text":"所以我也不同意我們的國防力量沒有在強化我們一直在強化我們的國防力量我是站在我希望未來因為你們賴總統剛上任我希望未來我們可以看到我們台灣我們大家是一體的我當然希望我們台灣的這個兩岸和平四大支柱他可以站起來他可以屹立不搖我們大家希望的共同的就是兩岸和平"},{"start":501.065,"end":524.114,"text":"這需要大院跟行政院跟全國人民一起的努力。我們只要腳步一致、方向一致、團結一起,我們一定可以做得比現在好好的。好,我也希望。所以未來我們也希望看出新政府的誠意。那最後,因為我們兩岸關係呢,我們有所謂的大陸委員會。那過去呢我們發現,好像大陸委員會都變成大陸宣傳委員會。"},{"start":525.635,"end":525.855,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":546.337,"end":546.377,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩﹚"},{"start":562.148,"end":582.741,"text":"那有關兩岸和平本席因為時間的關係就到這裡,我們謝謝各位部長,謝謝。沒關係,那但是我們看到的宣傳大部分都是用談話跟宣傳,好沒關係,那本席要接著請教院長。"},{"start":584.448,"end":600.893,"text":"第二個就是我相信您一定很清楚,現在全台灣詐騙的問題,院長您覺得嚴不嚴重?我講過很多次詐騙集團,我跟國人一樣都深惡痛苦。所以呢,我們現在只要大家聚在一起,"},{"start":602.234,"end":623.793,"text":"一講到詐騙每個人都提到例子,都有例子啊。 我的誰或是我周圍的誰不是親戚就是朋友。 所以我們台灣變成詐騙者的天堂。 這個問題我們一定要想辦法。 當然本席也看到院長您有宣示首重武打其安裡面的最重要就是打仗。"},{"start":624.827,"end":624.987,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩﹚"},{"start":650.769,"end":651.129,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":679.543,"end":704.612,"text":"兩岸問題是臺灣民眾安全的問題那這個是財產安全財產安全那既然這個影響這麼大我們看到第一線的檢察官我不知道院長有沒有聽說有叫建清檢改的第一線偵辦詐騙的檢察官他們整個組合起來而且不是一個地檢署喔各個地檢署檢察官聯合起來他們說"},{"start":708.176,"end":732.055,"text":"從他們工作上的經驗他們點名金管會、金管會、NCC還有速發部是打詐國家隊的三大戰犯當然這個你們都才剛接任所以讓你們了解所以這三個我們剛剛講碰到詐騙第一個金管會不列管虛擬貨幣"},{"start":733.72,"end":756.028,"text":"然後呢,訴發部不列管網路詐騙。警政署說這個詐騙是金管會跟訴發部的職責,所以人民被騙求告無門。那像這種情況非常普遍,所以本席想請教院長就是,我們是不是可以跨部會整合,而且非常的有決心的來做這件事。"},{"start":756.593,"end":772.481,"text":"報告委員我們現在做的就是這個方向所以打詐是法希望大院盡快通過通過之後我們就從源頭去溯源平台去追究他的責任以及避傷好好的管理那這個部分我想彭主委他一定會有更好的方法來提供給委員"},{"start":776.275,"end":804.896,"text":"這個有院長的回答我覺得就夠了而且我們也希望院長您說到就全力去做我們一定也一起大家一定要一起把詐騙把它這個驅離離開台灣我們台灣不要變成詐騙的天堂尤其我想慢慢的明年後年我們都可以看這個民眾去年詐騙統計得到的數字就89億多我相信黑數非常多"},{"start":805.416,"end":805.616,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":827.287,"end":828.949,"text":"本席也提出了最後的附帶決議。"},{"start":846.195,"end":875.068,"text":"因為我們看到行政院板已經就是還是分崩離析各司其職所以本席提了這個附帶決議我們希望呢能夠請院長親自督導溝通協調各部會管考落實降低詐騙院長可以嗎我們除了各部會之外我們還有政委負責在督導讓我一定隨時掌握狀況讓他可以在最快的速度裡面產生最好的效率"},{"start":876.628,"end":899.321,"text":"本席很開心聽到您這樣講當然因為你也知道我們每半年就會相遇一次所以我們希望可以看到成績那再來這個本席接下來要請教院長的就是我們之前看到我們的賴清德總統到新竹為兩位"},{"start":909.554,"end":916.597,"text":"請教院長,您知道到底現在消防人員最大的問題是什麼嗎?"},{"start":916.597,"end":922.139,"text":"我還沒有要請院長回答。 就是我們不時會聽到,這新聞會報導,"},{"start":926.803,"end":942.658,"text":"既然我們這個賴總統說要市民如親所以我們政府能做的是什麼要知道真正問題所在不要有再下一個不要再有下一個我們消防的弟兄"},{"start":943.183,"end":962.483,"text":"﹗"},{"start":962.827,"end":963.267,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":988.663,"end":1014.583,"text":"院長有一句話我相信我們年代應該都講得出啦我說上一句您說下一句天下無難事下一句話只怕有心人對但是我們看到我們的這個政府啊幾年下來我看到的是天下無難事只要肯放棄只要肯放棄放棄了就沒事所有事情甩鍋甩鍋兩手一攤"},{"start":1016.363,"end":1041.632,"text":"天下無難事啊。但是受苦的都是我們民眾。警消人員都是社會安全的資助。我們一定不會放棄警消人員的權益保障。您看一下,我們這邊錄取率與需求在過去十年來,您看一下,真正有符合的才多少?紅字全部是缺少的。"},{"start":1042.577,"end":1069.195,"text":"所以那缺到去年對112年到一個極致那去年其實去年12月本席在參選的期間我們的消防署長就在我選區一位消防弟兄他也是殉職而且他是分隊長就是因為人員不足他自己進去還這個最後殉職了"},{"start":1070.66,"end":1071.021,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1084.755,"end":1084.855,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩﹚"},{"start":1115.133,"end":1128.704,"text":"貴黨,你要選票,你要想盡辦法宣傳,你選票不夠順,你就想辦法宣傳。為什麼?我們消防弟兄人員不足,我們不能想辦法宣傳,我們想辦法讓更多人知道,更多有志者來參加。"},{"start":1130.951,"end":1160.059,"text":"這一塊我們真心覺得一定要盡快改善因為全國的消防人員都不足那這個人員不足造成的惡性循環就是所以現在消防弟兄啊他們全部都是這個過度的繁重所以退休的提早退休的一堆人還有中途離職的也一堆所以因為這樣惡性循環我們消防弟兄真的是很可憐"},{"start":1161.025,"end":1161.365,"text":"我現在講的﹖"},{"start":1183.453,"end":1209.273,"text":"你今天遭受不足的時候,你在前面看到,因為本席看齁,我們現在可以問一下全國民眾,甚至部會首長如果你誠實摸著良心,你什麼時候看到各個媒體或是你有看過消防人員招考,沒有嘛,我們有沒有印象,有印象當兵的,有印象警察的,有印象什麼的,你就沒有好好的宣傳去招考啊。"},{"start":1210.134,"end":1236.808,"text":"所以這一塊可不可以改善﹖我們加強宣傳﹖我們加強來這個﹖當天內政部也在現場﹖我們都提到這個問題了﹖所以好,能夠了解太好了﹖因為現在全國只期待看到我們新政府上任﹖是不是可以改善這個問題﹖我們一定要來進行改善﹖而且已經跟考試院有進行溝通﹖希望在分科配比方面可以調整﹖"},{"start":1238.87,"end":1264.111,"text":"本席拭目以待。接著第四個部分也是要為全民請命的,就是全民健保的問題。其實全民健保是我們臺灣的驕傲,更是全臺灣人民健康的守護制度。但是多年的實行下來,我相信院長您一定也了解,加上我們的"},{"start":1265.009,"end":1265.069,"text":"﹚徐欣瑩﹚"},{"start":1281.559,"end":1307.367,"text":"第一個我們因為總額設定的成長率也就是我們大家通稱的這個總額天花板太低了不符合實際國民對於健康的需求與期待還有醫療體系的成本與服務無法反映無法反映他的成本跟服務造成了醫護人員薪資不能合理的反映他服務的辛勞與專業"},{"start":1309.068,"end":1336.485,"text":"我們臺灣的醫療大家都非常的驕傲我們真的要非常的感謝這些在這個崗位上的醫護人員本席對他們是非常的敬佩與敬重只是我們的制度我們的制度真的虧欠他們太多了所以第二個問題我們醫療資源和鼓勵措施呢錯誤的配置還有齊頭式的平等這些觀念"},{"start":1337.346,"end":1337.446,"text":"這第二點。"},{"start":1361.531,"end":1390.479,"text":"第三點呢,現代科技進步,再加上通貨膨脹,所以醫療器材還有藥品呢,它的價格當然無日不漲,現在萬物齊漲嘛。所以健保的情況下一定會砍價。這砍價的結果就造成有的藥品跟醫材,它就不再進入台灣,因為我們是健保制度嘛。這個表面上看起來是在為人民把關,實際上不一定造福於人民。"},{"start":1391.199,"end":1391.399,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":1411.567,"end":1412.928,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1436.428,"end":1455.094,"text":"請問院長,是不是可以,本席想提議,能不能請總統召開健保國是會議,盡速的研議對策,來挽救這個守護全台灣人民健康的制度。各位委員報告,日前總統已經參與了健康台灣的全國的論壇。"},{"start":1456.653,"end":1459.196,"text":"但是我們的健保的問題還有我們醫護人員的這些問題特別健保的這個總額制一定要想辦法改進。"},{"start":1479.622,"end":1483.466,"text":"跟委員簡單報告,那個健康臺灣論壇其實在已經開了6場了,所以其中最重要的一個就是健保的開設。"},{"start":1499.504,"end":1515.213,"text":"一定要請總統,我們希望能夠召開國是會議,然後我們一定要想辦法重視這個問題,因為這個我們在座的每一個人,我們都是這個肉身啊,我們沒有人可以置外於這個身體的健康。"},{"start":1515.333,"end":1515.933,"text":"接下來本席要就"},{"start":1534.443,"end":1550.61,"text":"老保年金,這個也是廣大的勞工,全國一千多萬的勞工。 那老保年金呢,這個在過去八年只有開會收集意見,沒有任何的改革作為。"},{"start":1552.79,"end":1573.296,"text":"院長,我想您應該知道我們的勞動部何部長有說,撥補就是改革。總統也在就職典禮有說,只要政府在,勞保絕對不會倒。這個是不是就是撥補的意思?所以院長,請問您同不同意何部長撥補就是改革這句話?"},{"start":1574.056,"end":1574.256,"text":"徐欣瑩議員"},{"start":1591.189,"end":1591.769,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1616.722,"end":1630.554,"text":"臺電要不要撥補?如果不撥補,能不能承諾電價不會反覆調漲?很多的國際因素跟政策目標,臺電承擔了很大的一個包袱。對,那現在本席想問的是,能不能承諾電價不會反覆調漲?電價是經過審議委員會來處理的。"},{"start":1636.161,"end":1639.643,"text":"政府一向的想法是要不變動民生用電的大原則,增加用戶大電的負擔,這個是一向的方向,以後也是朝這個方向。"},{"start":1658.194,"end":1658.434,"text":"議員長,同意嗎?"},{"start":1681.772,"end":1683.913,"text":"政府一定負最終責任。 對,但是我們要有所憑據、有所依據啊。"},{"start":1707.967,"end":1708.287,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":1735.88,"end":1760.8,"text":"這個民怨本席在這裡要特別提醒院長過去的教改被人家質疑的就是坐在冷氣房裡昧於現況不符合實際需求然後呢都是一些理想然後實施下去結果學生家長叫這個哀聲連連現在國土計畫法已經有一點類似這樣了國土計畫法"},{"start":1764.582,"end":1764.622,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":1784.042,"end":1796.215,"text":"民眾覺得糧田應該拿來種水稻啊,還有在國土計畫法裡面被劃為山坡地保育的土地,其實是平地,可是它被劃為森林保護區。"},{"start":1797.95,"end":1822.935,"text":"然後民眾,這個農民啊,國土計畫法裡面最哀聲連連的就是我們的農民。 農民他辛苦工作賺不到錢,希望國家能夠輔導他機械化。 想要務農的人,他的土地又不一定被化為農地。 所以本席的重點就是,國土計畫法不要憑空想像,要到地方去聽取地方的聲音。 院長可以嗎?"},{"start":1823.815,"end":1824.416,"text":"好,謝謝徐議員,也謝謝卓院長。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}