{"error":false,"id":["153917"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153917,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153917","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T09:37:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T09:49:10+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0163b1a4a5e1332d079c37d5c63265337f0c311de3a91f948a3a65f0a64d6ccd15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:37:04 - 09:49:10","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員陳素月等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n(委員楊瓊瓔等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查)【6月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":195,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時37分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我覺得你們畜牧司可能要打屁股了，昨天我邀集了農業部、衛福部，還有教育部，他們三個單位裡的畜牧司、食藥署，還有國教署針對我們所有酪農的問題，包括公告、包括學童乳的部分都已經有作了一個決定跟裁示，所以你剛剛在回答委員的問題時躊躊躇躇地，我是覺得有點遺憾。","昨天的結論是這樣，第一，因為一開始衛福部說是你們畜牧司給的資料，就已經把「鮮」放進去了，所以他們是依照你們的，既然你們農業部這樣地認定，他們也沒有問題，因為現在是預告，所以昨天講得非常清楚，你們給了兩個資料、兩個版本，裡面居然把「鮮」放進去，所以我們才說，原來畜牧司整個狀況跟酪農溝通的部分，實質報上去給中央又是另外一回事。這些昨天都解決了，也就是衛福部沒有堅持，然後畜牧司也說，站在酪農的立場，他們也堅持不要把「鮮」放進去。臺灣鮮乳就是14天以內，就是14天以內「現流仔、現挽的，這樣你有聽懂嗎？就是我現採的，這個才是鮮乳啦！所謂的「長效」、所謂的「保久」是因為時間，保存期限的時間而有所不同，這個不能放「鮮」這樣一個字眼在裡面，這個很清楚，我們一定要分野，在標示當中就要分得很清楚了，所以這個是昨天的決議。","第二個，就是學童乳的部分，昨天國教署說是因為畜牧司從頭到尾都沒有跟它保證配送沒有問題，所以他們不敢採用保久乳。我們畜牧司說，配送沒有問題，所以國教署就說，如果配送沒有問題，他們當然要給小孩子喝最營養的、最新鮮的，所以我們要把它分開。配送沒有問題的地方，當時候我就說了，嘉義、雲林、宜蘭人家在縣市執行學童乳用鮮奶都沒有問題，怎麼可能我們有問題？現在畜牧司說沒有問題、配送沒有問題，國教署就改了，國教署就說，如果配送沒有問題，他們也沒有問題，所以追溯所有的原因，就是因為我們農業部嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：委員，我可不可以說30秒就好？"],["陳委員亭妃：好。"],["陳部長駿季：我想在整個協商過程中，特別是跟教育部前部長在協商的時候是我親自去的，我覺得我們政府是一體的，我也不便去批評或是去還原事實，但是相對地，其實我們畜牧司，包括我們農業部的立場就是跟酪農站在一起，當初發的公文是忠於會議討論的兩個方案，我們最重要的是本部的立場，我們寫得非常清楚，就是「長效乳」，會被凸顯包括鮮乳跟保久乳的使用，並不是畜牧司沒有辦法保證。我想我們最後的目標是一致的……"],["陳委員亭妃：你們的問題是在於「長效乳」又加了一個「長效鮮乳」。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們的建議是長效乳。"],["陳委員亭妃：昨天在現場，衛福部說有一份資料。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：他不好意思拿出來，那是你們畜牧司給他的，裡面就有「鮮」。好，這個我先不管。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我只是要跟你說結論，昨天大家談得非常地開心，就是在預告期結束，然後要正式把這些資料呈現的時候，就是要把「鮮」拿掉，臺灣鮮乳就是14天以內的才能說是鮮乳，其他超過這個時間點的都不能稱為鮮乳，你要讓消費者能夠很清楚地判斷，這才是重要的，什麼是鮮乳、什麼是長效乳、什麼是保久乳，那是用保存期限在看的嘛，14天以內的才是鮮乳，這是非常確定的；第二個，店家的標示要很清楚，臺灣鮮乳、臺灣保久乳跟進口的，這要分得很清楚，標示要標示清楚；第三個就是學童乳的部分，只要是在配送無虞的狀態之下，都要全面用臺灣鮮乳讓我們的學童喝，如果在偏遠、偏鄉地方沒有辦法配送，因為我們現在都有食農教育嘛，食農教育有教什麼才是食的安全，我們可以用教導教育啊！所以如果是配送有問題的部分才用臺灣保久乳，這個分得很清楚，昨天講的結論就是這樣。所以部長，拜託，就依循這個，不要再變了，不要再變了！"],["陳部長駿季：我想也非常謝謝委員召開這樣的跨部會協商，相關的結論也非常清楚，而且也是本部的立場，所以我們一定是朝這個方向，第一個，因為長效乳的相關權責還是在衛福部，我們一定會盡力地去溝通，會達到我們的目標，就是有關長效乳的目標，包括……"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，如果你們有委屈，你跟我們講，我們來替你發聲。"],["陳部長駿季：不會，我們會跨部會來做溝通。"],["陳委員亭妃：不要永遠都讓酪農覺得你明明應該跟他們站在一起，怎麼到最後變成什麼都沒了，這是重點。","第二個部分，部長，你知道我在審預算的時候，對於我們整個後壁蘭花園區，我們把它變成由中央政府來主管，我一直在說，不要讓地方政府沒辦法給人家的，變成中央政府主管之後，我們還是沒辦法給人家。所以很感謝部長，我們核定了計畫，爭取了臺灣蘭花生物科技園區升級計畫，114年到117年經費共7.28億；花卉產業創新園區中長程公共建設計畫，114年到119年89.85億經費，感謝我們的一路爭取，終於爭取成功，否則我覺得我們好像是三等的，我們的後壁國際蘭花園區，說真的這是非常響叮噹而且是有國際水準的，我們卻辦得亂七八糟，謝謝，現在在我們的爭取之下，已經核定了這樣的計畫。","那麼部長，我要請問，我們現在要做的除了有公共管線、消防安全、交通、綠美化，還有自來水管線的部分，在中長期的部分是要把整個花卉產銷研發專業園區來做提升，能夠聚焦環控設施，這很重要喔！也就是環控設施型高價花卉作物；然後要擴充開發基地120公頃，將規劃進駐業者自建溫室用地55.54公頃，以及所有相關的滯洪池還有廠房用地、綠帶等等，這個部分有10.81公頃，這是在第二期中長程要把它擴展出去的，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這個預算已經非常清楚，114年就是明年了，預算確定編了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我們預算已經送到行政院去，行政院另外會經過國發會審核以後，最後會核定。"],["陳委員亭妃：已經送了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們在過程中一定會努力去確保這個經費能夠到位。","第二個部分就是，這是114年到117年的部分，其實在今（113）年有一些基礎的公共設施，我們也去爭取了一些額度外的相關預算，來支持整個公共……"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我要跟你講的就是這個部分，我們2025年的亞太蘭展是在臺南舉辦，你剛剛所提今年的這些預算就是要用在2025年面對亞太蘭展的準備。我們現在有幾項必須要做的，場地路面整平，還有整個光罩的延伸，還有固定廁所的興建，還有漏水改善，甚至是副場館的整修，這個部分就是要用今年的預算，否則來不及啦！"],["陳部長駿季：是，知道。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以拜託，剛剛部長已經有說了，今年的預算我們要優先用在這幾樣，尤其我們所需要的預算要五千多萬，光是整修這個亞太蘭展的園區展覽要五千多萬，我們的經費OK嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，大概分為兩個部分，一個部分是整個園區的基礎工程改善，另外一個是國際蘭展的舉辦費用，這兩個是不同的經費……"],["陳委員亭妃：不同。"],["陳部長駿季：不同的部分，那……"],["陳委員亭妃：因為明年是亞太蘭展。"],["陳部長駿季：國際蘭展跟亞太蘭展都還是會舉辦，這兩個是不一樣的展覽。針對基礎設施的改善，我們也已經報院去爭取相關的額外預算來支持這些基礎工程，這樣的話才能來得及準備明年的亞太蘭展，甚至是國際蘭展，這個我們會來努力。"],["陳委員亭妃：是。剛剛我講的這個部分的預算就要5,235萬，所以要拜託，因為亞太蘭展是我們的面子，是我們的面子，不是臺南的面子而已，是我們臺灣的面子，所以拜託部長，這個部分一定要優先來幫忙、來協助，讓明年亞太蘭展的舉辦能夠來得及，這個部分再拜託。"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["陳委員亭妃：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請呂玉玲委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","邱議瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","羅廷瑋","黃國昌","黃秀芳","陳超明","徐富癸","邱志偉","洪孟楷","林岱樺"],"page_start":153,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員陳素月等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案；二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬\n具「植物診療師法草案」案；三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案","agenda_id":"1136201_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":2.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.8697187500000005,"end":7.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.92409375,"end":9.852218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.539093750000003,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.57284375,"end":15.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.24784375,"end":16.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.17596875,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.33971875,"end":24.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.59659375,"end":35.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.35034375,"end":39.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.29471875,"end":43.315343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.46721875,"end":44.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.11659375,"end":55.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.87034375,"end":60.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.46034375000001,"end":62.063468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.822843750000004,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.57784375,"end":65.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.86034375,"end":72.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.36971875,"end":78.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.78659375000001,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.30534375,"end":82.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.97159375000001,"end":90.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.15596875,"end":94.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.96971875000001,"end":96.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.75409375000001,"end":99.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.38659375,"end":103.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.23409375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.36034375000001,"end":109.14471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.81971875,"end":116.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.19846875,"end":119.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.14721875000001,"end":121.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.18909375000001,"end":123.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.38284375,"end":127.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.92221875,"end":130.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.14971875,"end":137.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.16971875000002,"end":144.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.05471875,"end":146.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.84346875,"end":150.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.79221875000002,"end":153.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.25159375,"end":155.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.49596875,"end":165.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.58721875,"end":167.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.25784375,"end":169.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.19409375,"end":174.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.75471875000002,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.57721875000001,"end":182.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.61409375000002,"end":184.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.11159375000003,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.81159375000001,"end":190.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.42721875,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.46471875,"end":195.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.93284375000002,"end":196.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.45159375,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.96096875,"end":209.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.70284375,"end":212.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.49971875,"end":213.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.35159375,"end":219.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.55784375000002,"end":220.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.21159375000002,"end":222.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.30846875,"end":223.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.27034375000002,"end":223.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.02971875,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.90721875000003,"end":227.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.67471875,"end":233.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.45846875,"end":236.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.46221875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14天以內 限老或限慢的啦 這樣聽得懂嗎 就是我限裁的 這個才是先辱啦所謂的長效 所謂的保久 是因為時間 保存期限的時間而有所不同的 這個不能放作先章的一個字眼在裡面 這個很清楚"},{"start":146.926,"end":173.815,"text":"我們一定要分野在標示當中就要分得很清楚了所以這個是昨天的決議第二個就是血統乳的部分昨天國教署說是因為我們畜牧師從頭到尾都沒跟他保證配送沒有問題所以他們不敢採用薄酒乳那我們畜牧師說配送沒有問題所以"},{"start":176.596,"end":203.439,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":205.291,"end":219.781,"text":"現在畜牧師說沒有問題,配送沒有問題,國教署就改啦。國教署就說如果配送沒有問題,他們也沒有問題。所以追溯所有的原因就是因為我們農業部嘛。"},{"start":221.46,"end":236.451,"text":"我會說一分...30秒就好。我想在整個的一個協商過程中特別是跟教育部前部長在協商的時候是我親自去的。我也沒有...我覺得我們政府是一體的我也不便去批評"},{"start":237.432,"end":262.329,"text":" ️ ️"},{"start":262.529,"end":283.42,"text":"我們的問題是在於長效乳又加了一個長效鮮乳昨天在現場你們說衛福部說有一份資料他不好意思拿出來那是你們訓務室給他的裡面就有鮮好這個我先不管部長我只要跟你說結論昨天大家談得非常的開心"},{"start":291.997,"end":319.227,"text":"就是在這預告期結束然後要正式把這些資料呈現的時候就是要把鮮拿掉台灣鮮乳就是14天以內的才能說鮮乳其他超過這個時間點的都不能稱為鮮乳你要讓消費者能夠很清楚的判斷這才是重要的什麼是鮮乳什麼是長效乳什麼是薄酒乳"},{"start":320.816,"end":346.017,"text":" 那是用你們的保存期限在看的嘛。 14天以內的才是鮮乳。 這個非常確定的。第二個,你們的標示,也就是在店家的標示要很清楚。 台灣鮮乳、台灣薄酒乳跟進口的這個要分得很清楚。 標示要標示清楚。第三,"},{"start":347.489,"end":375.427,"text":"也就是我們學童乳只要是我們在配送無餘的狀態之下我們全面都要用鮮乳台灣鮮乳讓我們的學童來喝如果在偏遠偏鄉地方沒有辦法配送因為我們現在都有食農教育嘛食農教育什麼才是食的安全我們可以用教導教育啊"},{"start":377.048,"end":383.453,"text":"所以如果在配送有問題的部分那麼當然我們才用台灣薄酒乳"},{"start":384.717,"end":412.113,"text":"這分得很清楚。昨天講的結論就是這個樣子。所以部長拜託就依循這個不要再變了。不要再變了。我想也非常謝謝委員召開這樣的一個發布會的協商。那相關的結論也非常清楚。而且也是我們本部的立場。所以我們一定是朝這個方向。第一個相關的長效乳因為全職還是在維護部我們一定會盡力的去溝通。會達到我們的目標就是長效乳的目標。"},{"start":412.833,"end":415.836,"text":"議長,如果你們有委屈啦,你告訴我們啦。我們來替你發聲啦。不要永遠變成說,若龍覺得你應該跟他站在一起,怎麼會變成最後什麼都沒了。這是重點齁,好。那第二個部分,部長,你知道我在審預算的時候,"},{"start":436.138,"end":452.331,"text":"一直以來我對於我們整個後壁蘭花園區我們把它變成政府中央政府的一個主管我一直在說所以很感謝部長我們核定了計劃"},{"start":462.098,"end":470.363,"text":"爭取了台灣蘭花生物科技園區我們升級計畫從114年到117年7.28億花卉產業創新園區中長城公共建設計畫114年到119年89.85億感謝我們一路爭取終於否則我覺得我們好像是三等捏"},{"start":488.956,"end":513.884,"text":"我們的後壁國際蘭花園區說真的這是非常響叮噹而且是有國際水準的阿我們辦個安那亂七八糟謝謝現在在我們爭取之下已經核定了這樣的一個計畫那麼部長我要請問我們現在要做的除了有公共管線、消防安全、交通綠美化還有治療水管線的部分"},{"start":514.957,"end":531.152,"text":" ️ ️ ️"},{"start":531.392,"end":554.547,"text":"然後呢我們要擴充開發基地120公頃將規劃進駐業者自建溫室用地55.54公頃然後呢再把所有相關的自紅池還有廠房用地綠帶等等這有10.81公頃這是在第二期中長程要把它擴展出去了對不對"},{"start":556.325,"end":578.464,"text":"好,所以這個預算已經非常清楚好,114年就是明年了預算確定編了嗎?我跟委員報告我們預算已經送到行政院去已經送到行政院了齁行政院會經過那個國安會審核以後最後會核定好,已經送了齁對,我們在過程中我們一定會努力的去"},{"start":579.445,"end":600.998,"text":" ️ ️ ️"},{"start":601.974,"end":612.509,"text":"這個你剛剛所講的今年的這些預算就是要用在我們2025面對亞太覽展這樣的一個準備我們現在有幾項要必須做的"},{"start":613.916,"end":632.346,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":632.466,"end":644.484,"text":"知道好所以拜託剛剛部長已經有說了今年今年的預算我們要優先在這幾樣尤其我們所需要的預算"},{"start":645.612,"end":673.533,"text":"要五千多萬耶。等人要請出這個亞太藍展帳的一個園區的展覽要五千多萬。那我們經費OK嗎?我想跟委員說明喔,大概分為兩個部分。一個部分是整個園區的基礎的工程的一個改善。那另外一個是那個國際藍展的一個舉辦的這個費用。這兩個是不同的經費。不同。不同的部分。因為明年是亞太藍展。"},{"start":674.273,"end":695.499,"text":"對,亞太覽展同時也國際覽展跟亞太覽展都會還是會去舉辦啊對這兩個是不一樣的展覽不一樣對然後針對基礎設施的改善我們也已經抱怨去爭取相關的一些額外的預算來支持這樣的一個基礎工程這樣的話才能夠來得及明年的亞太覽展甚至於國際覽展是這個我們要努力所以這預算喔剛剛我講的這個部分這個預算就要5235萬嗯哼"},{"start":701.181,"end":723.508,"text":"好這個部分喔所以要拜託因為亞太覽展這是我們的名字我們的名字不是台南的名字只是我們台灣的名字所以拜託部長這個部分一定要優先來幫忙來協助會護美尼亞太覽展我們的舉辦好這個部分再拜託瞭解謝謝謝謝好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}