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10:10:53","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長李孟諺列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":242,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時）謝謝主席，本席邀請交通部李部長。"],["主席：請李部長。"],["李部長孟諺：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長好。跟部長討論臺南市的一些交通建設，我是覺得比較輕鬆啦！因為部長對臺南非常瞭解，部長本身也代理過臺南市長，另外在臺南市也擔任過局長、副市長，可以說是服務多年。在本席邀請部長到臺南的考察當中，我們地方也很高興，我們期盼的就是臺南鐵路軌道建設的延續，部長也確定了臺南鐵路地下化延伸到永康的事情。抱歉，我那個字有寫錯，就是臺南鐵路的地下化延伸到永康嘛！另外就是新市、善化的臺鐵立體化的計畫；以及臺南有一條最新的捷運，從南區、中西區一直到安南區，最主要是安南區延伸到南科這樣的一個系統，這個部分是不是請部長全力支持？"],["李部長孟諺：是，我想包括臺南現在正在施工的鐵路地下化，我們會要求鐵路局儘速辦理，如果文資的問題解決，可以在兩年半以內完工通車，就是讓它第一階段可以下地，鐵路都可以到地下化的部分。"],["林委員俊憲：就是鐵路地下化的部分嘛。"],["李部長孟諺：對，至於延伸到永康這個部分的可行性評估也已經討論多次，現在善化那個站大家也有共識分開處理，這個部分我們會請臺南市政府趕快把報告……"],["林委員俊憲：就可以加速進行了，鐵路地下化原本只是臺南市的舊市區，現在可以延伸到永康，出了永康車站以後，臺鐵大概就進入到新市，再開始立體化，就消除了新市、善化的五個平交道，新市、善化就是南科，南科已經是國家，甚至可以說是世界最重要的半導體生產的地方，每天進出南科那麼多的人，竟然還要等平交道，這實在是非常落伍，所以新市、善化的臺鐵立體化就非常重要，讓交通更順暢、更安全。"],["李部長孟諺：新市到南科這一段，包括南科站也會跟著來改善、更新，我想這一段確實有其必要性，因為消除了很多危險的平交道的路口。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長的支持，這個地方希望能夠加快來進行。"],["李部長孟諺：因為在座談時，民眾跟包括在地的議員也表示，大家也支持新市站遷移，這是原來大家比較擔心的。"],["林委員俊憲：就往北移，地方也有這樣的共識。同時，臺南最新的黃線，這條黃線基本上也是為了市區，是從安南區通到南科、通到新市，這一條可行性評估的經費也請交通部來支持。"],["李部長孟諺：是。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，我請教一個觀光的問題，兩岸觀光原本中國說要派踩線團到馬祖，好像又取消了、又喊停了，是不是？"],["李部長孟諺：是，原來6月10號要來，他當時是表示端午節，現在我們觀光局跟他們在聯繫。"],["林委員俊憲：到底來不來？兩岸觀光恢復有沒有機會、有沒有可能？是用什麼樣的模式來恢復兩岸的觀光？"],["周署長永暉：跟委員報告，有關於馬祖這個案子，陸委會邱主委也表明，只要他們實際到了馬祖之後，他們會有對外統一的說法，我們當然是樂觀的歡迎。"],["李部長孟諺：我們這邊是歡迎他們這個踩線團過來的。"],["林委員俊憲：可是他取消啦！"],["周署長永暉：延後。"],["林委員俊憲：延後，所以沒有取消？所以還是會來？"],["周署長永暉：目前是這樣子。"],["林委員俊憲：那臺灣跟中國之間會不會開放？"],["周署長永暉：這個涉及到還要跨部會協商的部分。"],["林委員俊憲：這有跨部會協商嘛？"],["周署長永暉：對。"],["林委員俊憲：那我們的共識是什麼，我們臺灣的立場是什麼？"],["李部長孟諺：我想我們是希望能夠在對等的原則之下，加強雙方的交流，就照賴總統在就職典禮演說所揭示的原則。"],["林委員俊憲：總統也表示樂觀其成嘛！就在一定的原則之下。現在兩岸的觀光卡在什麼地方？"],["李部長孟諺：目前其實是這樣，我們開放的程度與對方開放的程度相較，我們開放比較多，比如說，我們已經有自由行過去，從6月1號開始，過去有成團的或是有規劃要組團的，我們也容許他繼續出團，所以在認定上其實是比較有彈性的，對岸是連自由行都沒有過來，所以人數也差距很大，我們去年過去的就有176萬，對岸過來的才二十幾萬。"],["林委員俊憲：所以不是我們不開放，也不是我們阻礙兩岸的觀光，是不是這樣？"],["李部長孟諺：是。"],["林委員俊憲：我覺得這個立場要講清楚。"],["李部長孟諺：開放的對等性，其實我們是比較open的。"],["林委員俊憲：對，我們臺灣反而是比較開放，現在很多的旅行業者很期盼，他們大概都誤解，以為是民進黨、是臺灣這邊不開放，基本上就是中國的一些政治考量，我認為絕對是這樣子。我不知道兩邊現在洽談有沒有進度？"],["周署長永暉：我們有一個觀光小兩會，目前我們也是希望能夠對等的來商談。"],["林委員俊憲：好。剩下的時間我要請教部長，部長，我非常多次而且也長期關心大車肇事的問題，過去本席歸納很多大車肇事的原因，駕駛都說他看不見，我們知道大車轉彎有內輪差、視野的盲點，所以後來我們敦促交通部要解決這個問題。交通部之前提出的就是所謂的視野輔助系統，部裡面也補助很多錢，據我瞭解補助差不多6億，全國的大車有20萬輛，結果證明這個系統是完全無效。我有看過這個系統，它有很多的螢幕，駕駛還要看前面的路況，還要看那麼多大大小小的螢幕，所以行車視野輔助系統裝了以後，政府花了那麼多錢，也強制全國大車都要裝，造成大車的車禍肇事件數、肇事率不減反增，都還提高。最近大車又造成了悲劇，因為大車只要一肇事都會造成非常重大的傷亡，你看有一個阿公載孫子去上課，被聯結車壓爆頭，造成死亡事件等等。現在檢討過去的視野輔助系統，這個根本就是一個幾乎是智障級的系統啦！後來交通部說要再改善，就是現在推出主動預警的輔助系統，就是它會主動提醒駕駛。目前績效如何，大概裝了多少部？好像裝了800部嘛！"],["林司長福山：計畫研發的目標是裝800輛，到昨天是785輛，剩下15輛是靠行車，我們這個月一定……"],["林委員俊憲：那我要請教部長，這個系統要取代之前的系統，因為之前那個系統證明是完全無效，那現在這個主動預警系統接下來呢？全國大車有20萬輛，現在交通部是先試做800輛，裝了800輛，那接下來呢？這800輛的效果如何？因為時間的關係，主席已經站起來了，我請教部長，現在這一臺多少錢你知道嗎？"],["林司長福山：八合一的部分，成本開發大概是20到25萬，800輛我們當時補助是以一半大概10萬塊來補助做系統的研發。"],["林委員俊憲：那業者還要自己出10萬？"],["林司長福山：是系統研發的廠商要負擔這個部分。"],["林委員俊憲：你有沒有辦法要求20萬輛都裝？或者是你的目標要裝幾台？如果你有一個系統，大家都不要裝，那這個系統做出來幹嘛？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下……"],["林委員俊憲：或者是說你有辦法強制要裝嗎？"],["林司長福山：這個計畫的目標有兩個，第一個部分就是開發、研發八合一的系統，把這個產業標準定出來，產業標準架構定出來之後……"],["林委員俊憲：希望價格可以降低？"],["林司長福山：對，價格降低，然後可能三合一OK，或是二合一或四合一，不用一定要到所謂的八合一。"],["林委員俊憲：你要把執行的時間、成效定出來啊！"],["李部長孟諺：裝的這800輛年底會完成測試的效果評估，如果有效益，我們再來持續推廣。"],["林委員俊憲：等於20萬輛要換裝好？"],["李部長孟諺：新車現在都強制要求，新車進口已經都有裝了。"],["林委員俊憲：因為時間的關係，後續的部分我再跟公總來瞭解一下。謝謝部長，謝謝局長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員，發言完畢。","現在請何欣純委員發言。等一下葉元之委員發言完畢之後，我們休息10分鐘，請各助理聯絡各黨的委員，以便他們安排相關的時間。","現在請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-16","speakers":["李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","何欣純","陳素月","葉元之","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","許智傑","蔡其昌","魯明哲","陳俊宇","鄭天財Sra 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北京要請我們交通部李部長請李部長"},{"start":16.405,"end":39.78,"text":"跟部長討論臺南市的一些交通建設我是覺得非常比較輕鬆啦因為部長對臺南非常了解部長本身也代理過臺南市長另外在臺南市也擔任過局長、副市長可以說是服務多年在本席邀請部長到臺南的考察當中"},{"start":41.364,"end":69.181,"text":"這個我們地方也很高興我們期盼的就是說臺南鐵路軌道建設的延續部長也確定了臺南的鐵路地下化延伸到永康的事情包警官那個字有寫中臺南鐵路的地下化延伸到永康另外就是新式散化的臺鐵立體化的計畫另外以及臺南的最新的有一條新的捷運"},{"start":70.837,"end":71.017,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":85.649,"end":108.65,"text":"是我想包括台南現在正在施工的鐵路地下化對我們會要求鐵道局這邊競速的那麼如果文資的問題解決可以在兩年半以內完工通車就是讓他第一階段可以下地這個鐵路都可以到鐵路地下化的部分對那延伸到永康這個部分以可行性評估"},{"start":109.17,"end":124.068,"text":"也已經有包括討論的多次那現在善化那個站目前大家也有共識就是分開處理那這個部分我們會請臺南市政府趕快把這個報告就可以加速進行了啦就鐵路地下化呢"},{"start":124.608,"end":149.965,"text":"原本只是台南市的救市區啦現在可以延伸到永康那你除了永康車站以後呢那台鐵大概就進入到新市啦那再開始立體化那就消除了新市的三個鐵路五個平交道啦就新市上外的五個平交道那新市上外就是南科啦那南科已經是國家可以說甚至世界最重要的半導體的一個生產的地方"},{"start":150.825,"end":176.645,"text":"那進出每天南科那麼多的人那竟然還要等平交道這實在是非常落伍但是新式上化的海體立體化就非常重要這個說讓交通更順暢更安全新式到南科這一段那包括南科站也會跟著來改善更新那我想這一段確實有它的這個必要性因為消除了很多的危險的平交道的這個路口"},{"start":178.166,"end":179.507,"text":"新市站有遷移大家也支持"},{"start":193.517,"end":218.623,"text":"同時還能最新的這個防線這個防線基本上也是為了市區就安南區通到南科通到新市那這一條的可信性評估的經費那也請交通部裡面來支持部長那我請教一個觀光的問題兩岸觀光原本中國說要派了彩線團到馬祖"},{"start":220.333,"end":224.257,"text":"兩岸觀光的恢復有沒有機會有沒有可能那是用什麼樣的模式啊來恢復兩岸的觀光"},{"start":239.893,"end":258.01,"text":"跟委員報告有關於這個馬祖這個案子那個陸委會這個邱卓也表明嘛只要他們這個到了這個實際到了馬祖之後那麼他們會對外統一的這個說法那我們當然是樂觀的方式歡迎"},{"start":259.355,"end":285.893,"text":"我們這邊是歡迎他們過來的這個彩線團的這個過來可是他取消了啊延後所以沒有取消所以還是會來還是會來那馬祖是個開始那台灣跟中國之間會不會開放這個涉及到那個整個還要跨部會協商的部分跨部會協商嘛那我們的共識是什麼我們的立場是什麼"},{"start":287.066,"end":308.333,"text":"我想我們是希望能夠在對等的一個一個一個原則之下那加強雙方的這個交流就照賴總統在就職典禮演說所揭示的這個原則總統也表示樂觀其成嘛是不是就在我們一定的原則之下好那現在兩岸的觀光卡在什麼地方"},{"start":309.392,"end":330.868,"text":"目前其實是這樣就是我們開放的程度比對方開放的程度我們開放比較多比如說我們已經有自由行過去那我們現在6月1號也開始就是說過去有成團的或是有規劃要組團的我們也容許他繼續的出團所以在認定上其實是比較有彈性的"},{"start":332.108,"end":349.719,"text":"對岸是連自由行都沒有過來所以人數也差距很大我們過去的去年就有176萬那對岸過來的才20幾萬所以不是我們不開放也不是我們阻礙兩岸的觀光是不是這樣是我覺得這個立場要講清楚開放的對等性其實我們是比較open的"},{"start":350.699,"end":365.267,"text":"對,我們是比較開放,現在很多的旅行業者很期盼,他們都誤解以為是民進黨,是台灣這邊不開放基本上就是中國的一些政治考量,我認為應該是絕對是這樣子那我不知道兩邊現在洽談的有沒有進度"},{"start":373.497,"end":398.863,"text":"對目前我們也是希望能夠我們有一個觀光小兩會我們也是希望能夠這個對等的來商談那剩下的時間我要請教部長部長這個我一直啊非常多次而且我也長期關心就是我們這個大車造勢的問題"},{"start":401.229,"end":420.871,"text":"過去本席提出大車肇事很多原因歸納駕駛都說他看不見我們知道大車轉彎有內輪差有視野的盲點後來我們就敦促交通部要解決這個問題交通部之前提出的就是所謂的視野輔助系統"},{"start":422.012,"end":422.132,"text":"林俊憲"},{"start":437.423,"end":437.763,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":458.854,"end":463.136,"text":"那最近又發生你看大事又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又又"},{"start":484.977,"end":513.946,"text":"後來交通部說那他要再改善啊就現在我們所謂的主動行車主動的一種輔助系統主動預警系統啊就是他會主動來提醒駕駛那目前啊績效如何大概裝了多少鋪啊好像裝800鋪嗎那個計畫研發的目標是裝800輛啊到昨天是785啊剩下15輛是靠航車我們這個議定法案那我要請交部長"},{"start":515.226,"end":537.95,"text":"這個系統就是要取代之前的系統因為之前那個系統證明是完全無效那現在這個主動預警系統那接下來呢全國大廈有20萬輛他現在交通部是先試做800輛裝了800輛那接下來這800輛效果如何我因為時間有問題我們主席已經站起來了我請教部長現在這一台多少錢你知道嗎"},{"start":542.194,"end":565.952,"text":"八二一的部分的話大概成本開發的部分大概是20到這個25萬那800張我們這個當時補助的話是以一半大概10萬塊來補助做安裝做這個系統的這個研發那你業者還要自己出10萬那個是系統研發的廠商他要附帶這個部分那你有沒有辦法要求20萬量都裝或是你的目標要裝起來如果你有一個系統"},{"start":567.335,"end":589.018,"text":"那你沒有一定的就是說大家都不要裝那你這個系統做出來幹嘛跟委員報告一下或者是說你有辦法強制要裝嗎這個計畫的目標有兩個第一個部分就是說開發這個研發這樣子八合一的系統那把這個產業標準定出來那產業標準架構定出來之後而後"},{"start":589.318,"end":589.458,"text":"新車進口都有裝"},{"start":619.057,"end":619.178,"text":"林俊憲委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}