{"error":false,"id":["153969"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153969,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153969","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T11:12:47+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T11:21:53+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba01c8bf019fa1f433379c37d5c632653374d862afa46997d4e058d39ead7a38cca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:12:47 - 11:21:53","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員陳素月等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案。\n(委員楊瓊瓔等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查)【6月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":684,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時13分）謝謝主席，是不是麻煩有請部長？"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好，我延續上一次質詢的主題，也就是在2022年我們從日本進口雞蛋，上一次詢答的時候，其實你也答應要提供很多資料嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員國昌：到目前為止資料都還沒有完全到，所以我想說利用今天質詢的時間，我們進一步地來請教。因為這整件事情之所以會引發大家這麼大的關注，是大家發現2023年超思這家公司出現了，一口氣承接了7億的單子，從巴西進口雞蛋，大家開始在追蹤這家公司到底是什麼時候開始在做這樣子的生意。農業部強調，它不是為了專案進口才成立，但我們後來發現，它在2022年11月的時候就曾經從日本進口雞蛋到臺灣，而且它在2022年11月從日本進口雞蛋到臺灣的時候接的是我們中央畜產會的大單，它在2022年9月的時候才成立的，因此我們進一步追下去，發現原來我們在2022年從日本進口雞蛋，那3,000萬顆裡面有2,500萬顆是由超思所進口進來的，所以我那個時候才會跟部長說這個契約是不是可以提供？但目前為止我所收到的訊息是中央畜產會請超思進口2,500萬顆雞蛋沒有契約。"],["陳部長駿季：我從畜產會所得到的訊息是它111年只跟亮采有合約，跟超思是沒有合約的，不是沒有提供……"],["黃委員國昌：部長，但你不會覺得這件事情太奇怪了嗎？因為進口2,500萬顆雞蛋不是我們今天跑去「𥴊仔店」買1盒雞蛋，我們今天跑去「𥴊仔店」買1盒雞蛋，一手交錢，一手交蛋，沒有合約，只有口頭，實際上面行為的意思表示合致，這個大家都可以理解，但你從日本進口2,500萬顆雞蛋，包括數量、包括價格、包括交貨的條件、包括中間可能要負擔的各式各樣的費用，完全沒有合約，部長，你相信嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明一下，從2、3月委員在關心111年的這個相關資料以後，其實我從內部就啟動了相關的行政調查，在行政調查裡面，我們也的確看到有一些現況好像有一點點的疑問，對我們來講是一個疑問，所以我們行政調查了以後，我也請政風去做更深入的瞭解，我的態度是公務人員的作為如果有不法的話，我一定嚴懲……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有啦！我們一步一步來……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我也……"],["黃委員國昌：先不用這麼急……"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我也提供了檢調……"],["黃委員國昌：我們一步一步來，部長，先請您稍微冷靜一下……"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員國昌：我們一步一步來，我到現在都還沒有提什麼不法、要懲處誰，我只希望把事情還原，把它弄清楚而已……"],["陳部長駿季：我們也是希望……"],["黃委員國昌：因為我第一步的事情是2,500萬顆雞蛋竟然沒有合約這件事情，部長，你們行政調查的結果是不是確實是這個樣子？"],["陳部長駿季：我們看到的這些資料，我所瞭解的是2,540萬裡面其中有一部分是跟亮采之間的關係，最後的確是超思去進口，但是它是跟亮采之間的關係，並不是直接用超思的名義去買斷……"],["黃委員國昌：這樣子跟你們提供給我的書面資料就不符合啊！"],["陳部長駿季：提供的書面資料中，的確是超思買斷的，就是我們的付款……"],["黃委員國昌：我們先把事情講清楚，那個契約關係到底存在誰跟誰之間？中央畜產會是跟超思買，還是中央畜產會跟亮采買？"],["陳部長駿季：跟亮采，中央畜產會跟亮采有合約關係，跟超思沒有合約關係。"],["黃委員國昌：所以實際上面的狀況是什麼？實際上面的狀況是3,000萬顆全部都是跟亮采，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，有一部分是超思本身……"],["黃委員國昌：所謂有一部分是有多大部分？"],["陳部長駿季：我如果沒有記錯的話，應該是600多萬顆……"],["黃委員國昌：部長，我老實跟你講，這幾個月下來，你們給的資訊不是隱匿，就是片段，前後不一致，到今天才講，原來有一部分是跟亮采進來的，跟亮采進來的到底數量是多少？今天你說得清楚嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想非常詳細的數字我沒有辦法記得那麼清楚……"],["黃委員國昌：好，你們行政調查做完了沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：我們行政調查做完了。"],["黃委員國昌：做完了，行政調查報告可以提供給各位委員嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：如果相關的規定是可以，我一定會提供。"],["黃委員國昌：有什麼不可以的理由嗎？你們進行了行政調查，社會大眾對這件事情有非常多的疑慮與質問，我們在經濟委員會質詢了這麼久，結果你們一開始隱匿不肯給，到後來提供的資訊錯誤百出，到今天才承認，原來有一部分的蛋超思是從亮采那邊來，他們彼此之間有一些交易行為，越講越複雜，是不是可以請部長承諾，你們既然有做行政調查，行政調查的內容當然要接受國會的監督及人民的檢驗，可不可以把行政調查報告交出來？我們下一次詢答的時候，不用浪費這麼多時間，你還要不斷的去更正你們之前所提供的訊息，可以把行政調查報告交出來嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我還是一句話，以我的立場，我可以交的，我一定會交，我絕對不會隱匿，相對的就是我可能必須問我們的法制處。","如果照我們法制講的，可以的話，我一定會提供。"],["黃委員國昌：好，所以多久行政調查報告要交出來，這個禮拜之前可不可以？"],["陳部長駿季：行政調查報告已經完成了，它可以……"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候可以交出來？這個禮拜可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：……就可以，因為已經完成了。"],["黃委員國昌：等一下，這個禮拜可以交出來嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個禮拜……"],["黃委員國昌：你們不是已經完成了嗎？你只要把檔案打開，按列印，印完了以後，送到經濟委員會來給所有經濟委員會的委員及關心的委員。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我跟委員說明，我們對外提供資料的時候，相關的這些程序我們必須要完備……"],["黃委員國昌：什麼樣的程序？要報到院長那邊去，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，所有……"],["黃委員國昌：要請示院長可不可以提供，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，除了我們的承辦本身，還要經過科長，要經過司長，包括我們的主秘，這是我們的行政流程，這個行政流程一定要完備，完備之後，我們一定提供……"],["主席：部長，你就告訴委員什麼時間點，好不好？細節你不用在這邊說，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我說下禮拜一定會提供，明天我不知道是不是所有人都在我們部裡面，所以下禮拜一，最慢下禮拜二，我一定提供。"],["黃委員國昌：好，最晚下禮拜二提供。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員國昌：我希望我去函詢問的資料，包括了畜產會跟超思往來的紀錄、畜產會跟超思付款的明細，畜產會跟超思如果沒有一個書面合約的話，針對所有的交易條件，到底是怎麼談成的，因為整件事情對於我來講，我必須要說，匪夷所思！匪夷所思！這麼大的數量沒有合約，所有的交易條件到底是如何達成合意的？分兩個部分，第一個，就行政調查報告的部分，部長剛剛已經承諾，最晚下個禮拜二提供，這個我同意；第二個，就我去函詢問的問題，請部長能夠一併回復，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：從這個簡報上面看到的，我覺得應該可以提供。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。因為部長也是很老實的事務官，我要替部長講一句話，部長，但是的確從有契約到沒契約，真的頭都暈了，都暈了！所以禮拜二我們也希望能夠有清楚的東西出來，謝謝。","接下來請黃秀芳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","邱議瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","羅廷瑋","黃國昌","黃秀芳","陳超明","徐富癸","邱志偉","洪孟楷","林岱樺"],"page_start":153,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員陳素月等17人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案；二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬\n具「植物診療師法草案」案；三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「植物診療師法草案」案","agenda_id":"1136201_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.09284375,"end":10.274093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.26096875,"end":15.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.724718750000001,"end":16.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.79534375,"end":23.352218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.875343750000003,"end":30.625343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.35096875,"end":31.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.10596875,"end":40.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.23971875,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.977218750000006,"end":51.330968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.90471875,"end":53.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.99721875,"end":56.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.55784375,"end":61.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.19846875,"end":66.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.75471875000001,"end":68.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.04971875000001,"end":72.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.01534375,"end":80.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.77784375,"end":81.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.77346875,"end":86.39721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.71784375,"end":89.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.68784375,"end":92.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.35409375,"end":93.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.83909375,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.83471875000001,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.57159375,"end":106.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.22096875000001,"end":109.60034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.95471875000001,"end":112.89096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.12721875000001,"end":117.95346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.47659375,"end":122.79659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.70784375000001,"end":124.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.40784375000001,"end":132.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.76971875,"end":135.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.43596875,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.22909375,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.75596875000002,"end":142.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.57409375,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.09596875,"end":156.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.07409375,"end":156.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.68159375000002,"end":160.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.71471875,"end":161.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.43596875,"end":163.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.17409375,"end":166.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.41846875000002,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.98284375,"end":191.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.98409375,"end":200.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.91096875000002,"end":202.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.81784375,"end":206.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.74971875,"end":218.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.77909375000002,"end":210.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.39471875,"end":213.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.37284375000002,"end":215.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.75659375,"end":216.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.95034375,"end":218.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.23721875,"end":223.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.79346875000002,"end":225.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.34596875000003,"end":231.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.59909375,"end":227.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.60659375,"end":234.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.84659375,"end":244.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.15721875000003,"end":257.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.23534375,"end":263.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.33159375,"end":270.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.68909375000004,"end":281.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.62909375000004,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.84409375,"end":279.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.70846875,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.27346875,"end":288.28971875},{"speaker"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️ ️ ️"},{"start":394.405,"end":416.658,"text":"可以把行政調查報告交出來嗎?我還是一句話喔以我的立場齁我可以交的我一定會交我絕對不會隱密齁那相對的就是說我可能必須問我們的法務法治處這邊齁如果可以的話可不可以好如果如果照我們法治講的可以的話我一定會提供好"},{"start":417.458,"end":425.427,"text":"所以,多久行政調查報告要交出來?這個禮拜之前可不可以?什麼時候可以交出來?這個禮拜可以嗎?等一下,這個禮拜可以交出來嗎?你們不是已經完成了嗎?"},{"start":435.646,"end":455.109,"text":"啊你只要把檔案打開、按列印、印完了以後送到經濟委員會來給所有經濟委員會的委員跟關心的委員嗎?不是,我跟委員說明喔,就是我們對外提供資料的時候,相關的這些程序我們必須要完備。什麼樣的程序要報到院長那邊去是不是?要請示院長可不可以提供是不是?"},{"start":456.07,"end":458.311,"text":"議長,你就告訴委員什麼時間點。好不好?細節你不用在這邊說好不好?好!"},{"start":483.166,"end":512.602,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":512.722,"end":539.089,"text":"沒有合約那所有的交易條件到底是如何達成合意的分兩個部分第一個就行政調查報告的部分部長剛剛已經承諾最晚下個禮拜二提供這個我同意第二個就我去函詢問的問題請部長一併一併能夠可以回覆這樣可以嗎從這個簡報上面看到的我覺得應該可以提供好謝謝"},{"start":544.701,"end":545.503,"text":"謝謝!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}