{"error":false,"id":["153981"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153981,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153981","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,15],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T11:48:40+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T11:56:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:32","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0ee7848a1032284fe8ff7e0bc1ebc50211d141634ad16f55f50fc6cff46c367e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"11:48:40 - 11:56:12","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":814,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（11時48分）謝謝主席。我們請次長。"],["張次長秋元：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：次長好。次長，警察退休潮今年會進入高峰，雖然提出申請不見得就會退休，但是有多少人會申請退休？警察人員是警察機關最重要的資產，人才是重點嘛，是不是？"],["張次長秋元：是，是，是。"],["黃委員建賓：警察的業務也繁多，勤務繁重，而且工作也深具危險性，在警力不足的情況之下，所有沉重的工作和精神壓力，會導致更多基層員警在任職滿25年就直接申請退休，人力只會越來越欠缺，退休的可能比新進的還要多，永遠都補不滿。不只是警察而已，還包括我們的消防和海巡人員也一樣，他們的屬性也有別於一般的公務人員，所以警消、海巡的死亡跟傷亡人數相對高於一般的人員，我們今日修正警察人員人事條例有其必要性，所得替代率應該也比照國軍來辦理，這是本席的意見。","首先，我想要先問一下次長。次長，警察工作辛苦眾所皆知，甚至為了工作，連他們的餘命都比別人短，從110年銓敘部委外製作的平均餘命表來看，20歲的警察人員平均餘命大概是60.73，一般公務人員是65.86，我想要問次長，為什麼會有這個差異性？"],["張次長秋元：那個原因就是因為在職亡故，在職亡故就是剛剛我們一直在講的，在職的部分我們一定要再加強去處理，所以在因公傷亡的撫卹、慰問金等等，我們其實都加強照顧。"],["黃委員建賓：意外多嘛。"],["張次長秋元：對，所以這個就是在職的部分，退休以後的平均餘命，我們這個調查報告會後也可以再送給委員會，之前我們也有送給司法及法制委員會做參考，警察的平均餘命跟全國的平均餘命相比，公務員跟警察人員退休以後都比較高，並沒有比較低，當然警察比一般公務員的平均餘命再稍微低一點，但是差距也不是大到非常顯著，大概差不多差一歲多，所以……"],["黃委員建賓：所以人民保母不好當啦！"],["張次長秋元：這個就可以證明一個狀況，就是說，他的在職風險的確是高的，然後在職的危勞，我們必須要用在職的方法去解決，然後現在的制度也是在照顧在職，我剛剛也有講過，待遇方面，警監四階以下的，包括警佐三階、二階、一階，這四個等級的俸級，我們都拉到一般公務員八職等的年功俸最高級，警佐委任三職等是最高等級，底下的其實都拉平了，那這個當然就會反映在未來退休的時候會比同等級的人多，譬如說，警正四階是薦任第六職等，本來我們在前端就已經把俸級拉高，所以他們繳費的時候就是拉高的，跟一般八職等的公務員繳的是一樣的錢，所以當他們退休的時候，就會跟八職等的公務員是一樣，所以就比六職等的高9,500元左右，將近1萬元。"],["黃委員建賓：所以次長，警消人員本來屬性就不一樣，都已經比照第二陸軍和第二海軍的規格。"],["張次長秋元：他應該是在軍人跟一般公務員之間，所以我們在在職者的照顧上比起一般公務員會有很多特別處理的措施，包括剛才提了很多，那個……"],["黃委員建賓：我們也是要照顧他們，不然這樣以後如果沒有人要當警察，人民保母……"],["張次長秋元：我們現在是擔心一項，現在這個案把他到……像警監一我剛才有報告過，他就會來到十幾萬耶，如果跟現職人員的待遇一樣，那誰要繼續做這個辛苦的工作？這個對人力的衝擊部裡面會覺得這是一個比較擔憂的問題，就是現職人員跟沒有負責勤務工作的人我們認為還是要有一個區別，這樣才是公平，如果整個都把他拉高，會對財務造成衝擊，到最後就會造成財務負擔的世代轉移，這個是比較嚴重的問題。"],["黃委員建賓：次長，現在除了警察退休後安定生活的考慮以外，我想要請教，現在我們國家有沒有關心警察的身心健康，定期安排做心理健康的諮詢跟診斷？有沒有這樣的計畫？"],["張次長秋元：我想這個張署長應該比我更清楚，我們警政署一定一直有在做。"],["黃委員建賓：署長，我們今年防治的經費370萬而已，370萬！監察院的報告顯示近四年有22個員警自殺、全國約有1萬名警察因為情緒受困擾、6,000人有自殺的意願，而且你看你的經費全年才370萬，雖然說警察是人民的保母，但他也是人，協助這些警察的心理問題刻不容緩，應該制定更多的保護措施，對不對？而且內政部警政署近年提供一個叫關老師心理健康諮詢計畫，有這個計畫嘛，是不是？實際參與的有多少人？"],["張次長秋元：報告委員，這個部分真的是警政署比較了解，是不是拜託警政署張署長來說明？"],["黃委員建賓：好。"],["張署長榮興：這些心輔人員各警察機關都有設置，設置的員額不一，我們現在會擴大心輔機制委外的普遍率，今年（113年）我們也把它提高到300萬，明年會提高到500萬。"],["黃委員建賓：署長，本席建議還是要由專業者來做。"],["張署長榮興：對，就是委外的專業心輔機制。"],["黃委員建賓：那個關老師是你的長官嗎？"],["張署長榮興：不是、不是，我現在說的不是我們裡面的人，是委外的專業機構的這些心輔師，並不是我們自己本身的人員。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝署長，署長，我們真的要多多關心這些弟兄的心理健康問題。"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["黃委員建賓：不然他們的工作壓力那麼大、勤務又重，真的會擔憂有一天沒人願意來當警察。"],["張署長榮興：是，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝署長、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：下一位請黃國昌委員發言。","我們同時先處理會議時間，上午會議時間繼續進行至議程討論事項之處理。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條\n條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(十一)委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員\n張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136301_00011"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.585968750000003,"end":14.509718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.94284375,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.69284375,"end":31.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.34221875,"end":43.720343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.00721875,"end":44.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.884718750000005,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.48784375,"end":47.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.955968750000004,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.06971875,"end":50.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.72346875,"end":52.259093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.51221875,"end":61.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.13096875,"end":62.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.51909375,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.13471875,"end":66.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.97409375000001,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.64909375,"end":75.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.37784375000001,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.35534375,"end":85.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.02596875,"end":89.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.61596875000001,"end":92.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.68721875,"end":94.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.97346875000001,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.85096875,"end":99.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.94346875000001,"end":103.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.42409375000001,"end":106.19159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.42784375000001,"end":110.37659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.59596875000001,"end":112.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.67159375000001,"end":116.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.07596875,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.49346875,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":120.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.23971875000001,"end":122.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.25659375000001,"end":123.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.41659375,"end":124.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.39534375000001,"end":138.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.22034375,"end":138.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.28784375,"end":174.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.74284375000002,"end":144.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.69159375,"end":146.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.55221875,"end":176.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.11721875,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.15034375000002,"end":181.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.72409375,"end":199.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.20846875,"end":187.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.25471875000002,"end":190.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.10096875000002,"end":204.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.33221875,"end":208.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.97721875000002,"end":214.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.96784375000001,"end":217.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.83659375000002,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.15721875000003,"end":234.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.64409375000002,"end":242.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.59221875000003,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.36409375000002,"end":246.00096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.33846875,"end":250.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.78534375,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.35846875000001,"end":263.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.78721875,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.64346875,"end":279.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.65534375000004,"end":271.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.54409375,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.25284375,"end":282.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.54784375,"end":284.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.57721875000004,"end":286.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.04096875,"end":288.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.23909375,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.09534375000004,"end":291.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.90096875,"end":294.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.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