{"error":false,"id":["153984"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153984,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153984","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-24","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":24,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T11:47:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T11:56:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0684d8a997d98ecae560592432c08898e1d141634ad16f55f5826011f50adb47c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"11:47:45 - 11:56:58","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1165,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（11時47分）謝謝召委、立委同仁、原民會和各單位的行政長官，有請曾主委。"],["主席：有請曾主委。"],["林委員倩綺：曾主委你好！你在5月20日就任，但是你在5月17日就來拜會本席，本席在跟你的對話裡給了你一項功課，你還記得吧！"],["曾主任委員智勇：記得。"],["林委員倩綺：這個功課現在做得怎樣，你要不要跟本席做一個回應？"],["曾主任委員智勇：主要是針對文化的部分，就是部落跟原住民的文化要怎麼樣做得更好？你還有問到博物館的問題，我們也希望博物館的進度能夠儘快，等它有了進度之後，未來我們會持續的推動原住民博物館與國外的交流，大概是講到這個。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝主委！本席早上也看了一下幾位委員對你的質詢，我不知道該怎麼樣繼續下去，你連本席在5月17日跟你講的那最重要的一點，而且這點你還列在今天的業務報告裡面，就是最前面的這個問題。本席應該跟你說過，在原民會所有的業務裡面，這一點是本席最重視的事情，你剛才完全沒有提到，不知道當時你有聽進本席講的話嗎？還是你忘記這個功課是什麼？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，可能是沒有……"],["林委員倩綺：你剛才講的是本席在內政委員會有提到的事，我相信你的幕僚做了很多功課，但是那一天你來拜會時，本席有跟你講到原民會最重要的一件事情，這也是本席最關心的，你還記得嗎？我已經跟你提示了哦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：是不是有關平埔族的事情？"],["林委員倩綺：我剛才已經很清楚的提示了，是，是有關平埔族這個部分，請問你的功課做得如何？從早上開會到現在，中間休息了5分鐘，事實上，在一些委員的質詢裡面，本席也聽到了一些回應，但是本席期待休息的這5分鐘你有一些惡補，如果沒有惡補的話，我想你的答案還是會接近本席早上聽到一些委員對你的質詢。還是你這邊有什麼要補充的嗎？就是有關平埔族這件事情。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我要補充的就是，跟委員報告，當時憲法法庭的判決有一點很重要……"],["林委員倩綺：這樣好了，主委，我的時間很短，你講的這個部分我5月17日已經聽到了，其實早上有些委員已經很具體的問過你了，假設你在推動平埔族群這個議題上，請問你知道明年原民會的預算是多少嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：125億元。"],["林委員倩綺：有關平埔族方面的業務推動？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，平埔族這個身分……"],["林委員倩綺：你只要回答本席明年平埔族相關的經費是多少？"],["曾主任委員智勇：如果按照我們所預知的是98萬人的話，光是教育預算就要增加90億元，那還只是教育的部分。"],["林委員倩綺：98萬到90億哦！什麼意思？"],["曾主任委員智勇：如果只是解決他們的教育問題……"],["林委員倩綺：未來就要90億元？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，就是增加90億元。"],["林委員倩綺：明年就要90億元嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：如果來登記的或者是平埔族全部是98萬人的話……"],["林委員倩綺：主委，你有好多的未知，我建議你先把早上幾位委員所提到的，就是有關平埔族這個區塊土地問題、人數問題、文化問題和教育問題，各要多少經費先盤點一下，然後你必須要知道，明年你們在平埔族群這個部分要支出或支應多少，然後未來這些問題總共需要多少的額度？你必須要去瞭解一下你本身對於這個負擔，假設像你剛才講的，我只是用你講的話哦！我先不要講它是否正確。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["林委員倩綺：就從你知道的明年是9萬，然後未來要98億，我不知道你有沒有口誤，如果平埔族群的教育經費會從九十幾萬元到98億元，請問現在原民會的預算將如何承載這樣的經費？我不知道你有沒有口誤，我先講，我不知道你有沒有口誤，早上這些委員問你的這幾個問題，你對經費都沒有概念。"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，98萬是人口數，如果有增加到98萬個人口數，那光是……"],["林委員倩綺：你是講98萬個人口數嘛！不是教育經費從98萬元變成98億元。"],["曾主任委員智勇：如果是98萬人口數，光是教育經費，我們估算差不多就要90億元。"],["林委員倩綺：好，90億元，請問，光是這一點你要如何承載跟處理？現在要不要用10秒鐘跟本席回應？"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為這個超過我們的預算很多，而且這樣原民會現在做的事情就完全沒有辦法做，所以我們當然要請求院裡面來協助和幫忙。"],["林委員倩綺：現在你們對於要如何協助和幫忙有概念了嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：就是請求預算在編列時，額度外的需要我們要提出來。"],["林委員倩綺：你知道禁伐補償要尋相關的方式來做處理，就是額度外的預算。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們也是要請求院裡面來協助啊！"],["林委員倩綺：好的，你現在終於聽清楚了，所以你應該可以試圖的、努力的請求院裡面來協助，對不起！是原民會額度外的預算，這點是本席非常關心的。但是平埔族的功課，在你來拜會時，本席講過這是很重要的一件事情，而且這也是你們今天業務報告所列的第一項，除了你當天講的有關憲法的內容，本席並沒有看到你們有提出相對的具體作法，本席希望這部分的功課你能夠更具體，早上許多委員的指教基本上都已經幫你把答案及未來的走向給匡列好了，所以你只要依照這個走向好好的去做應該就會有一些解答。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["林委員倩綺：第二點，我可不可以請主計處？"],["主席：副主計長。"],["林委員倩綺：副主計長，不好意思，我想請教一下，原民會過去的禁伐補償費用，就是你們積欠原民會的這個經費你們要怎麼處理？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：113年我們已經有撥補21億元，就是透過原民基金來執行。"],["林委員倩綺：所以你們有用到原住民族發展基金嗎？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：不是，全部都是由公務預算撥補，只是透過基金來發放。"],["林委員倩綺：由公務預算撥補，請問現在綜合發展基金剩多少錢？主委。"],["宋處長麗茹：我來跟委員報告。"],["林委員倩綺：給我一個總數就好了，因為主席站起來了。"],["宋處長麗茹：現在這個基金的淨值大概是45億元，可動用的資金大概是14億元。"],["林委員倩綺：請問一下，2012年當時基金是多少錢？"],["宋處長麗茹：2012年當時可動用的資金大概是五十幾億元。"],["林委員倩綺：可動用的資金五十幾億元，這比現在現有的資金還要多。"],["宋處長麗茹：不，是減少。"],["林委員倩綺：可動用的資金是？"],["宋處長麗茹：可動用的資金就是原來的、大概是十五、十六億元。"],["林委員倩綺：然後現在總額剩下45億元？當時可？"],["宋處長麗茹：現在可動用的資金是14億元。"],["林委員倩綺：好，請問2012年綜合發展基金有多少錢？"],["宋處長麗茹：2012年？"],["林委員倩綺：本席當時在新北市……"],["宋處長麗茹：這個原來有100億元的額度。"],["林委員倩綺：所以原本是100億元，現在剩下45億元，請問原住民族綜合發展基金這幾年來是怎麼花的？請給本席一個報告，也給所有的原住民委員一個報告。"],["宋處長麗茹：好，我們會把所有的預算收入和支出做成報告給委員。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝，謝謝召委。"],["主席：好，錢不足的部分請趕快補足，不足的部分被挪到哪裡去了，請說明清楚，非常謝謝林倩綺委員的質詢。","繼續請林宜瑾委員質詢。很少在這裡看到你，歡迎！我們在教育及文化委員會經常見到，謝謝召委！"]],"agenda":{"page_end":460,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-24","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃仁","黃捷","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","盧縣一","黃建賓","丁學忠","莊瑞雄"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住\n民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原\n住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推\n動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政\n部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136101_00005"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":7.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.371593750000001,"end":8.856593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.177218750000002,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.818468750000001,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.25221875,"end":25.714718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.028468750000002,"end":16.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.00159375,"end":26.575343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.60909375,"end":31.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.35096875,"end":31.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.650343750000005,"end":37.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.235968750000005,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.42096875,"end":45.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.829718750000005,"end":49.187843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.47471875,"end":51.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.44909375,"end":54.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.469718750000006,"end":59.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.15221875,"end":67.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.85159375,"end":69.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.67409375,"end":79.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.38971875,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.36346875000001,"end":89.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.24471875,"end":91.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.33721875,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.14721875000001,"end":96.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.53471875000001,"end":99.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.68159375,"end":105.09471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.55471875,"end":106.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.68534375,"end":113.53221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.10659375,"end":110.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.29221875,"end":110.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.59971875000001,"end":121.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.06659375000001,"end":124.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.16784375,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.98971875,"end":133.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.96784375000001,"end":141.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.55846875,"end":134.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.72721875000002,"end":135.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.24596875,"end":136.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.27034375,"end":152.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.31971875000002,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.44159375,"end":158.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.79096875000002,"end":162.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.36409375000002,"end":165.05159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.64659375000002,"end":167.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.38034375,"end":169.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.77659375000002,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.30346875,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.28221875,"end":191.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.12596875,"end":175.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.77409375000002,"end":185.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.95034375,"end":194.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.44784375,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.48971875,"end":199.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.13471875000002,"end":205.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.99909375000001,"end":211.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.18346875,"end":223.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.32096875000002,"end":225.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.02534375000002,"end":232.48409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.36659375000002,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":229.73346875000001,"end":230.37471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.73721875,"end":233.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.75409375,"end":235.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.45409375000003,"end":235.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.31471875000003,"end":242.10284375},{"s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盤點一下然後你必須要知道明年你們究竟在貧苦族群這個部分支出支應多少然後未來這些問題上總共需要多少額度那您必須要去了解一下您自己本身對於這個負擔假設像你剛才講的我只是用你講的話我先不要講它是否正確"},{"start":283.017,"end":302.538,"text":"從你知道的明年九萬到未來要到九十八億,我不知道你有沒有口誤,這個貧苦族群的教育經費如果是從九萬九十八萬要到九十幾萬要到九十八億,請問你現在原民會的預算如何承載這樣的經費?"},{"start":305.011,"end":329.784,"text":"我不知道你有沒有口誤喔我先講我不知道你有沒有口誤好那早上這些委員問你的這幾個問題你對經費都沒有概念如果有增加到98萬的人口數那光是只是是在講98萬的人口數嘛不是98萬的教育經費嘛變到98億嘛你的如果是98萬的人口數光是教育的經費我們估算就要差不多要90億了啦"},{"start":332.374,"end":351.95,"text":"那請問光是這一點你如何承載跟如何處理因為超過我們的預算很多而且完全會沒有辦法做現在目前原民會在做的事情當然我們要請求院裡面來協助來幫忙現在對於如何協助跟幫忙有概念了嗎"},{"start":352.671,"end":379.865,"text":"就是請求在預算在編列的時候額度外的需求我們要提出來啊進法補償您知道應該尋相關的方式來做處理嗎額度外的預算我們也是要請求院裡面來協助啊好的那您現在終於有聽清楚了所以應該您可以試圖跟努力的請求院裡面的協助那今天主席處對不起額度外行政院然後"},{"start":381.178,"end":408.863,"text":"原民會額度外的預算。」額度外的預算這點是本席非常關心的但是平樸族的功課是本席在您來拜會的時候講的很重要的一件事情而且是您今天在業務報告裡面列的第一項那除了您當天講的憲法相關的內容本席沒有看到相對的具體做法那本席希望你這個部分的功課能夠更具體找上許多委員的指教已經都幫你把"},{"start":409.383,"end":423.15,"text":"答案基本上都匡列好了未來的走向,所以你依照這個走向好好的去做,我相信應該會有一些解答。第二點,我會請主席處的副主席長。副主席長,不好意思,我想請教一下,那個原民會過去進法補償的費用,"},{"start":437.203,"end":464.939,"text":"簽原民會的經費請問這個部分怎麼處理?原民會的經費我們在113年就是撥21億左右給他透過他的原民基金來執行所以你用到我們原住民的原住民族不是全部有公務預算撥只是透過基金來發放喔公務預算撥請問我們現在的那個綜合發展基金剩多少錢?主委"},{"start":469.263,"end":480.631,"text":"我來跟委員報告一個總數就好了現在基金的淨值大概45億可動用的資金大概14億請問一下2012年當時基金是多少錢2012年當時的可動用的資金大概是50幾億可動用的資金50幾億比現在現有的資金還要多來減少"},{"start":495,"end":498.123,"text":"可動用的資金是…現在可動用的資金是14億本席在當時在新北市"},{"start":521.402,"end":541.46,"text":"對,當時這個是100億,原來是100億的這樣的一個額頭所以原本是100億,現在剩下45億請問原住民族綜合發展基金這幾年來是怎麼花的?請給本席一個報告也給所有的原住民委員一個報告好,我會把我們所有的這個預算、收入跟支出做一個報告給委員"},{"start":545.244,"end":551.233,"text":"前不足的部分請趕快補足,不足的部分被挪到哪裡去了,要說明清楚。」"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}