{"error":false,"id":["154014"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154014,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154014","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,15],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T13:00:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T13:07:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba01e2956cebfff38c68ff7e0bc1ebc5021fe2aa8cbc518221f91973a31aecd7fbc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"13:00:39 - 13:07:15","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":1076,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（13時）謝謝主席，辛苦了，我們是不是請內政部的馬次長。"],["主席：馬次長。"],["林委員德福：還有銓敘部的張次長。"],["主席：張次長。"],["林委員德福：還有警政署張署長。"],["主席：張署長。"],["林委員德福：還有消防署蕭署長。"],["主席：蕭署長。"],["馬次長士元：委員好。"],["林委員德福：根據中正大學調查，民眾對警察維護治安工作滿意度達到74.91%，有七成五的民眾肯定警察人員在工作上的專業表現。馬上6月15號就是警察節，本席首先要謝謝所有警察同仁，24小時、365天維護全國的治安。現任勞動部長何佩珊一句話說政府撥補勞保，負擔最終的支付責任就是改革。本席相信很多基層的警消聽了是非常不服氣，講實在話，警察跟消防能夠來上班工作是要經過考試的欸！其他的有經過考試嗎？沒有啊！而且有一點，法律不能溯及既往，今天修法以後，你追溯到過去跟政府簽的合約，然後來砍殺他們，有道理嗎？","我在立法院第七屆了，我們要講道理，而且那個年金改革，你說過去政府很多政策，講實在話，早上許宇甄委員講的，你們真的要汗顏，錯誤的政策比貪污100倍可怕。為什麼我這麼講？一個能源政策，光台電就撥補5,000多億，而且疫苗、快篩，林林總總太多了啦！講實在話，那些一次都幾百億、幾千億，甚至於那個臭雞蛋等等，這個實在不應該。包括數位發展部，花200多億做出什麼？下一個會期，我認為我們要把它砍殺，留這個部幹什麼？200多億撥補到我們消防署裡面，汰換那些老舊設備，不要讓消防人員一次次進去以後就掛掉了，老百姓是看在眼裡啦！該不該做的，你們應該好好探討。","2017年民進黨占絕對多數，推動整個年金改革的修法，導致這些基層警消所得替代率大幅度下降，對警察的退休生活產生很大的衝擊。包括監察委員都提出調查報告，說其實警察最近變成緩退，為什麼緩退？因為新陳代謝困難，基層警察他們沒辦法就老化了，因為斷層，大家不想當警察，老的又認為我退休以後就開始刪減，所以他們就繼續留。我要求內政部警政署、行政院人事總處，真的要檢討改進。","110年警察人員平均的餘命是75歲，國人平均餘命是80.86歲，換句話說相差6年之多。基層的警消常常要24小時輪替他們的任務、服勤，等於是日夜作息顛倒，導致他們的疾病、意外等等，明顯高於一般的公務人員，屬於高危險的職務。我認為你們是他們的長官，應該好好為他們設想，解決問題啦！人要摸著良心啦！講實在話，人在做天在看，我認為不該花的錢你亂花，結果來砍殺他們，這有道理嗎？次長，你的看法呢？"],["馬次長士元：報告委員，我們方向上，對於現職警消同仁或者是退休警消同仁，都採取一視同仁照顧的立場，這個沒有問題。對於細節，就數字精算這個部分，可能我們要再多一些溝通。"],["林委員德福：年改溯及既往，已經跟人家簽約的，然後又砍殺，如果是今天修法以後從現在開始，那沒有話講，毋庸置疑，但是追溯政府跟人家簽約，這有道理嗎？可以用多數暴力來處理嗎？對不對？我相信這句話你們回應不出來啦！法律可以溯及既往，那我跟政府簽約是簽假的？我當初為什麼要經過普考、高考來做這份工作？不通的啦！","要是法律能溯及既往，整個都亂掉了啦！當初我在當國民黨團總召，他說軍公教勞全部都要處理，勞有沒有處理？大家心知肚明啦！勞工有一千多萬，勞工就擱在那裡，就只有處理軍公教，因為軍公教幾乎都是支持國民黨，把他砍殺，讓他們沒有辦法生活嘛！講實在話，摸著良心啦！我們這個社會要公平、要正義啦！以上，謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。下一位我們請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條\n條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(十一)委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員\n張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136301_00011"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.51471875,"end":17.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.12534375,"end":17.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.340343750000002,"end":21.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.20471875,"end":22.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.301593750000002,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.81971875,"end":30.102218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.524093750000002,"end":30.895343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.890968750000003,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.66721875,"end":33.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.24909375,"end":49.221593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.626593750000005,"end":57.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.40159375,"end":71.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.17159375,"end":78.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.93846875,"end":84.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.82784375,"end":85.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.62096875,"end":86.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.30846875,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.08034375000001,"end":90.14346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.63284375,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.38784375,"end":94.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.61534375000001,"end":97.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.66534375,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.69471875,"end":101.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.97284375000001,"end":102.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.35659375,"end":104.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.61346875000001,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.86096875000001,"end":117.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.78471875000001,"end":118.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.23596875000001,"end":121.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.39596875000001,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.52659375,"end":129.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.79971875,"end":132.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.07346875000002,"end":138.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.11471875,"end":143.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.00846875000002,"end":151.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.68659375000001,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.76221875000002,"end":158.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.82034375,"end":163.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.97159375,"end":165.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.94596875000002,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":174.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.22721875000002,"end":179.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.74971875,"end":180.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.09971875000002,"end":184.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.20471875,"end":185.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.68971875000003,"end":204.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.14659375000002,"end":216.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.27971875,"end":234.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.72846875000002,"end":240.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.96784375000001,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.04784375000003,"end":265.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.64346875,"end":271.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.56659375000004,"end":274.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.90784375000004,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.70471875000004,"end":280.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.51034375,"end":281.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.19784375,"end":284.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.04971875,"end":286.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.87221875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.98159375,"end":290.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.41159375,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.62221875,"end":295.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.69784375,"end":296.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.31346875,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.14221875000004,"end":315.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.18409375000005,"end":328.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.19471875000005,"end":330.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.20284375,"end":332.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.51471875000004,"end":335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«警察人員人事條例第三"},{"start":361.904,"end":388.158,"text":"為什麼?勞當初我在當國民黨團總召他說軍公教勞全部都要處理勞有沒有處理大家心知肚明啦勞工有一千多萬勞工就擱在那裡就只有處理軍公教因為軍公教都是支持國民黨的嘛對不對幾乎都是支持國民黨把他砍殺嘛對不對讓他沒有辦法生活嘛"},{"start":389.738,"end":395.412,"text":"講實在話摸著良心我們這個社會要公平要正義以上謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}