{"error":false,"id":["154185"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154185,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154185","日期":"2024-06-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-25T16:18:42+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-25T16:49:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63224dc0dd2f91fb4172dd66b70915b54c867c7a3ae89c5402ac479e6c663ba9b34386f0e31270a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"16:18:42 - 16:49:47","會議時間":"2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）\n二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）\n三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":445,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（16時18分）主席、各位立院同仁、各位今天與會的部會首長，大家午安。特別感謝今天給我這個機會，讓我有機會跟院長請益。請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員永康：院長好。我今天回想到在10年前，我也曾經就站在您左邊這個位置，當年是面對立委的質詢，因為物換星移、角色互換，當年質詢我的委員，很多今天都成為您內閣的菁英閣員，雖然角色互換了，但是對國家安全的期許、社會福祉的維持、人民權益的維護，應該是理想不變、眼光不變。因此我覺得今天質詢的距離不會那麼遠。個人過去四十年的軍旅生涯中，大部分都是直來直往，有的時候也就是貫徹命令，所以我個人感受就是我可能是立法院裡用語言表達最不適宜、最不妥善的委員，所以我幾乎要用圖表來協助向院長請益。3月12號時，在前任陳院長期間，我們曾經提到了人才培養、軍事教育訓練以及國家安全戰略的法制化，另外還有一部分就是未來的醫療系統、科技的管理，當時我們在這裡面有得到共識，雖然現在的狀況產生了微微的變化，但是我個人覺得這個題目還是有延伸性。很高興顧部長現在已經主動到臺前，在這裡可以看到我們國家安全目標，這是所有國人必須要知道的事；國家安全方向，這是各部會都要掌握的事；至於國家安全手段，則是執行必須要落實的事。由於我們目前沒有法定的國家安全戰略文件，所以資源分配不平均，跨部會協商有其困難，策略的執行不容易，法制不夠周延，這些問題是二、三十年來一路累積下來的，不是針對性，但因為施政不容易同步，政策難以持續，因此各個層級任務編組過多，分工和權責上產生困難。","我們為什麼要提出國家安全？就是為了保護國家安全與維持兩岸和平穩定，行動的重心，在政治上是趨利避害，在和平對等前提下，堅守民主自由體制；在經濟上是互利互補，在公平正義條件下，促進經貿與投資成長；軍事上是強軍慎戰，在國家安全前提下，控管風險解決爭端；社會上是凝聚共識，在國防民生合一的前提下，強化基建、堅韌民心。手段如上圖所述，請參考。","下面用一個邏輯框架圖來顯示國家安全的重要性，這裡面的每一個元素，我們都連接到資料庫，這個未來可以跟院裡、國防部，乃至於國土安全辦公室提出建言。國家安全、社會堅韌、民心安定、經濟繁榮、軍事堅強、臺海和平，所有的連結都跟資安有關，實際上它的外圍包括了國家安全戰略的八個面向，即政治、外交、經濟、軍事，這涉及到兩岸關係；能源、社會、醫療、產業，是基建（基礎建設），所以我們要做管控分岐、風險控管、情勢控管、衝突控管。在基建部分是風險預應、災難管制、災害管制、災損管制。在這個環節內，我們政府的領導，總統、國安會、行政院、國防、外交、陸委會是環環相扣。現在總統提出了新的委員會，當然可能跟行政院的工作是有部分重疊，所以在這個組織架構下，將來希望建置的框架能有比較明確的定義，這樣在有限的資源分工下，是比較可以落實，希望不要重複浪費人力，但是成果我們是希望累積。","各位看一下，這個就是我們國家安全戰略發展的一個方式，這是一個methodology，圖的右側是國內情勢影響及趨勢，左側是全球環境影響及趨勢，左邊是動態比較大，右邊是國內的靜態，比較可控制，但是這兩項產生的因素都直接影響到我們的評估，也就是我們的幾個重要範疇，包括兩岸政策、外交政策、國防政策、經濟政策、能源政策、資安政策、衛環政策、人口政策，這些都是國安戰略裡面的環節，而不是純軍事的問題。","現在再把總統提出來的這幾個重點跟原先列舉動態、靜態相關的，我們把它的重疊領域性找出來。我們常說無縫接軌，但是無縫接軌實際上只有單線鐵路叫無縫接軌，如果有雙線交叉、有多重配置，必然會有重置性（redundancy），而不是單一的想法。最後我用美國的國家安全戰略來顯示我們跟美國學習了這麼多年，但是精髓並沒有完全掌握到，它的國家安全戰略裡面包括國家的利益目標，還有它的優先順序，如何去整合國家的實力，包括國家安全的方向，但是它下面的國防戰略就跟它有重疊性，包括戰略的背景因素，包括戰略的目的，如何完成目標與執行這個國家安全戰略的方法論、導引方式，最後是風險的控管。從國家安全戰略底下又有國防軍事戰略，也就是從上到下有它政策的指導，由下到上有實力的支撐，這上下之間要同步調。","現在來看一下美國每四年、每兩年都出的刊物，這都是公開的，當然還有機密本。我們在2021年出了四年期國防總檢討，2023年出了國防政策白皮書，因為目前沒有法定國家安全戰略的文件，也就是沒有明確的從上到下的政策指導。我在想顧部長日理萬機，可能還沒有時間去看這兩本刊物，我們的四年期國防總檢討一共48頁，中間講到國防戰略、軍事戰略1頁半；2023年的國防戰略、軍事戰略，在這本書裡面183頁，講到戰略一共3頁半，也就是說，整本的書多半都是美編的圖集、卡通示意圖，不夠落實。美國國會在2017年取消了四年期國防總檢討，我也面對過美國參加聽證的前政府官員，他說四年期總檢討雖然每四年發行一次，但每年開會大部分是由下屬單位上百人共同創作寫出這本東西來，因此它聚焦在美國國防產業、區域性的利益，但卻沒有上級的指導，不能支撐它的國家安全戰略，因此這個已經取消了。我們建議修法，把四年期國防總檢討取消，用國家安全戰略的法定文件來代替，做一個明確的指導，這樣才能夠環環相扣，最後對於我們的防衛計畫才有一個明確的指導。至於防衛計畫所產生的，過去我們常常說標準作業程序SOP，其實在軍事作戰指揮我們叫ROE（Rules of engagement），就是戰務令、接戰規定，這些東西國防部現在已經開始啟動，但是腳步要加快。","我們給各位看一張圖，這是東北亞整個大區域的圖，經過地理空間資訊系統的校正，這個是在總統就職之前，去年1月9號中共從西昌發射的火箭，因為它是用平面的圖集來顯示這個狀況，所以產生了一些錯誤的狀況，如果能夠用3D的圖示顯示發射位置、發射時間，就會發現它的衛星通過我們本島上空是600公里，那算太空，因此不形成威脅，但是那一次卻發布了國家級的防空警報，雖然事過境遷，但是國防部現在已經改進，這一次中共預備發射衛星可能是在明天發射，國防部已經明述說這個是走太空，並不影響我們的空域安全。","這個是兩年前裴洛西訪問造成中共威懾武嚇的實彈軍演圖，就是發射導彈飛越臺灣上空，但是當時我們並沒有用這個3D的圖像來解釋，所以只有左上角的平面顯示。我們根據的資料國防部沒有發布，是日本公布的，根據這個資料我們來模擬看它產生的彈道，實際上都是在太空平流層以上，這個是它的彈道拋物線。","我們希望將來國防部跟科技部，甚至太空中心有橫向聯繫，在衛星導控跟發射的軌跡部分能夠共同合作。用這種圖像來看，當時有3枚飛彈其實是飛越新竹科學園區，這個圖像目前我們國內尚沒有機會模擬展示，但是這個告訴我們一件事，就是用二維的圖跟三維的圖會有不同的判斷。","有關剛才前面黃仁委員提到聯合利劍，我的建議是我們要把格局放大，要有宏觀的大區塊，也有微觀的細節，要把它整合起來。我們看到的並不是上面那一塊，上面這一塊的圖是國防部發布的，我幫國防部的解讀是，它的巡邏區跟中共不同，表示我們國軍拒止中共的艦機在24浬之外，但是共軍的圖是畫到12浬，這表示我們國軍付出辛勞能夠守衛我們的疆土，但是一般的老百姓看不懂圖，所以圖要套疊、圖要校正。","同時，各位看到右邊的這個圖是臺灣及當時的氣象圖。我們陸軍仍然在用公元2000年的UTM座標圖、紙板圖，要把它接起來，用陸軍的圖來判斷利劍演習可能就不能涵蓋了，就看不到。利劍演習實際上我們用方法論來看，其實共軍是沒有消耗的，是沒有戰火的消耗戰，或者是沒有替代市場戰，美中角力造成它在國際孤立。它是用一個桶箍的方法，希望耗盡我們的民心士氣、降低我們的戰備妥善，所以我們要提高警惕，但是也不要過度擔憂。","方法論很重要，共同圖像更重要。上面這個圖就是顯示今天早上7點30分，我把共機擾臺的圖跡套到圖像上。我們一定要用圖像套疊，才能從不同的時間、不同的位置、不同的事件、不同的動態，最後研判出它不同的意圖作長官的判斷，而不是用單一圖像。未來在國土辦公室或者在國防部乃至於國安會，我建議設立這種模擬虛擬的戰情顯示，可以顯示不同的場景圖像，而不是開會時每人帶張紙做個簡報，這樣長官非常難收斂這種動態變化的情勢。","2月14日金門因為中共三無漁船違法越界，我們執法的過程中產生擦撞，這個問題還沒有解決。當時我跟前院長在報告的時候，我列舉了14項，但是因為狀況在變化，所以我們繼續修正，今天有18項。以這個法制的流程來講，因為現在我們很多的依據是兩岸人民關係條例，事實上太平島不在我們的領海基線劃定內，所有的外島都不是我們的領海基線劃定內，所以在執法的過程上，雙方的溝通用什麼條例來引述是很重要的。另外一個就是必須用標準的圖，有的是用商業的電子海圖，有的是紙本的海圖，它的校正不一，所以會產生各個部會拿出來的圖不一，就會有判斷上的落差。這個已經有18項了，還在發展中。","這個就是這一次共軍潛艦通過海峽，許多外面的媒體、名嘴、專家有各種的論述。其實臺灣海峽的水非常淺，尤其臺灣灘水深大概只有三、四十公尺，所以共軍的潛艦不管是核潛艦、傳統潛艦，如果要回原造船廠去修，一定是在海峽中線以西浮航。這張圖裡面包括海圖、海底圖，如果這個圖可以放大細看，你會看到中國大陸沿岸的離岸風機，它是海上航行的障礙，同樣我們在未來六年內，我們整個離岸風機數量會達到1,000個，所以在內政部督導的海圖也要把它描述出來，會避免海上形成航行安全的一個障礙，兩岸都一樣。它這個船實際上是浮航，那麼清晨5點被漁船發現，以當時金門的雷達看，4點鐘應該就發現它了，所以國軍是有保持偵測到，只是老百姓公布以後，外面就產生了很多的敘述。我在這邊提出的是說，不要看小區塊，要用整個、一個大區塊圖，包括細緻的圖、包括當時海底圖、岸上的地上圖、離岸風機、海上航行安全，用這個圖來做一個客觀的判斷。剛才是一張衛照圖，再套上南海的海圖，再套上我們航空圖，這都經過校正。","各位看這個航圖可以連結到海圖上面菲律賓的基線，是校正過的，這是所有南海人造島礁或是人工造島的島，根據比例，把它的標準位置顯示出來，比方今天的報紙講菲律賓在擴大興建中業島，在蓋機堡，中共當然是反彈，但中業島在1971年原來是我們的，因為防颱，國軍撤離，菲律賓占領了，現在已經超過50年了，是既成事實。目前在仁愛礁那邊，我個人的研究，菲律賓跟中共還是以海巡執法，不會變成真正的軍事衝突，但其中有一個重點就是黃岩島，黃岩島是我們中華民國臨海法裡面標註的，但是外交部的立場要向菲方表示，這個主權在論述上是不讓，但是在真正的海上執法過程中間，很多還是可以探討，但是這個要強調，因為這是我們內政部公布的，在左上角的領海法裡面，黃岩島是我們的領海。","用這張圖來顯示一下，如果我們建立一個虛擬的戰情室，不管是在國防部，不管是在行政院國土安全辦公室或者在國安會，你可以透過資料庫，我們現在已經建立這個資料檔，所以你可以看到裡面不同的圖像，各個顯示出來是動態，繼續做動態的。要向大家報告，因為我們立法院的電腦跑不動我這個動態的，要用電競的電腦。這個是模擬的彈道，這個是犯臺的虛擬演習，中間就是剛才我們行政院跟國安會大家互動的關係。這個是顯示我們所有全臺的超高壓配電所，如果伺服器故障了，在哪個位置、哪一個電塔、哪一個是345千伏、哪個是161千伏，全部都可以做出來，那麼這樣子，國土安全辦公室就不是打電話去協調。我們可以顯示醫院的病床有多少、災害發生的位置在哪裡、當時的天氣，甚至演習的兵力，用這個方向顯示出來，包括潛艦在水面航行，上面是共機擾臺的時候，我們國防部展示把它驅離的位置，再套上中共顯示的位置，證明國軍把它驅離在24浬，並沒有讓它進到12浬，用這個共同圖像可以提供所有做決策的高階政策下達人一個客觀的判斷，它是一個工具，是一個方法論，而不要用傳統的簡報圖，每人三張紙，這個時候高階長官是很難收斂的。","那麼現在就要談到教育了，曾國藩曾經講過「中興以人才為本」，今天很多年輕人也許不知道曾國藩是誰了，但見賢思齊，有為者亦若是，我相信年輕人都知道。現在見賢思齊的對象可能不是學者，可能不是政治人物，而是高科技，可能是台積電的張忠謀，可能是黃仁勳，優秀的年輕人只要是理工的，統統都到竹科去了。我們要看一下兩岸教育的投資，這個是我們國內前七大和大陸的前七大，清華大學最高，它是臺大的5倍，每人每年平均的投資費，南京大學是最低的，它也是海洋大學的4.03倍，所以這給我們一個警訊，大陸在人才培養上跟你競爭高科技，但是它投資在教育上面。再來，這是國內的前七大和我們國軍學校的軍事教育再做個比較，臺大是我們軍事院校的2.8倍，海大是最低的，也是我們的1.3倍，但我提醒部長一個注意點，根據美國國防安全合作局公布的資料，過去十年來我們的軍售投資（Foreign Military Sale，FMS）總共是255億美元，換算成臺幣，十年每年是770億投資在軍售，但是我們的軍事教育只有二十餘億元。","如果不加速增加教育的投資，提升軍校的素質，我們很難有效運用這些先進的武器做有效的管理，第一個，所有武器裝備的操作手冊、維保手冊、作戰準則教範全部是英文版。AIT的處長要調回國了，他曾經講過我們基層官兵的英文素質、閱讀能力要趕快提升，因為越先進的武器、越好的裝備，你不能夠瞭解它的操作手冊，不瞭解它的準則教範。所以我們將來軍售的投資不僅止於買武器裝備，人才培養大幅提升，料配件要同步到位，這是非常重要的。尤其是現在中科院的人數，竹科都把我們的人吸走了，年輕的不進來，唯一的可靠來源是理工學院，理工學院也是唯一可以進到中科院從基層幹起的。這個提出來給部長參考，教育部有高等教育深耕計畫，今年編列一百多億，但是國軍在裡面沒有額度。104年到106年，我曾經向當時的教育部長蔣偉寧爭取到給國防醫學院的經費，因此在當年的八仙粉塵爆699個燒燙傷，國軍收容了65個，零傷亡，為什麼？我們當時的那個經費投資在燒燙傷。當國家有任何意外災難，國軍的醫院是全部投入，八仙塵爆的當天晚上，我們動員了300個醫生、護士等緊急人員，把他護送到醫院實施搶救、急救，住院一年，零傷亡，沒有走一個，這個投資是值得的。","因此，我建議教育部在深耕計畫裡面不應該排除國軍，因為我們每年都受到它的教學評鑑、師資評鑑，我們用的是同一個標準的教育體制，國軍不應該排除在外。至於我們國軍教育本身，建請部長要考慮趕快提升教育經費，因為老師的額度受限於編制，但是我們可以請好手、請高手，用特殊的講座方式把這個提升，將來的課程一定要包括國際法、武裝衝突法，甚至戰俘人道精神都要納入授課，這是一個大幅提升國軍教育、提升人才素質的好機會。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們有兩個學校，包括國防醫學院和理工大學已經在深耕計畫裡面，我請部長再說明一下。"],["陳委員永康：對，我瞭解，但是這個是國防部的錢，我們建議由教育部來cover，因為深耕計畫教育部可以統一申請，國防部自己撥給它就行了，隨便它叫什麼計畫，這個是可以區隔的，當然我們也肯定部長同意給它，但是這個額度是不夠的，也就是一年花了770億美元的臺幣買裝備，這邊是寫8所，其實是13所軍事院校，整個經費就這麼多，所以要考慮未來有卓越的領導人才接受先進的武器系統，要能夠管理，要能夠有宏觀、有世界觀，並能夠運用科技，這需要投資、培養。","最後一個，我要做一個解釋，中山科學院的基礎從民國56年成立，在1980年代，由李國鼎先生推薦，郝柏村前院長從美國邀請了一位黃孝宗博士，他是美國NASA太空總署太空計畫火箭推進的主持人，做了兩任主持人回國，為中科院奠定了所有的基礎。今天我們有6個所、5個中心，並擁有關鍵技術科研的21個案，全部是矩陣式管理，並且用團隊進行研發，上面講的、我們用的其實就是美國太空總署運用的管理方法，所以現在民間有很多方法，建議我們可以做技術切割，我們叫TRL，技術備便水準1到6由民間來做，中科院做7以上。我向大家報告，如果沒有重複性，而是刀切豆腐的，由民間發展出來了，他說我賣給國外、我跟別人來了，你接都接不下去。","我個人也在國外實驗室做過兩年，瞭解專案管理技術一定有它的重複性，這裡面沒有所謂的無縫接軌，而且研發過程中間必然有失敗。DARPA很多的計畫做出來可能束之高閣，三年後發現別人跟上了，我可以拿出來用，所以研發計畫應該允許有失敗，而不是零失敗，在這個層級水平的分割上面，一定要有重製性。過去我在中科院擔任董事也提供了建言，尤其部長是法律專家，很多跟國外廠商簽約的過程中，我們希望我們的法遵、法制人員從開始就要介入。今天受限於時間，我的問詢到這邊，我要請一下院長做您對於今天看法的陳復。"],["卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝陳委員。從陳委員2月1號到立法院、到國會來以後，在許多關鍵時刻都聽聞到委員的一些看法，我表示非常地敬佩，尤其今天從剛剛看到的3D圖像，給我們一個相當大的收穫。我想委員今天無非是要告訴政府要有所準備，而且要告訴人民不懼不憂，政府如果準備得好，我們有能力來做好這些事情。請國防部來看一下，剛剛委員所呈現的整個介紹過程，國防部是不是也能夠有這樣的能力，或是能比這樣更好，表示政府的準備才是充分的，非常感謝委員。"],["陳委員永康：部長，您這邊呢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想剛剛委員指教很多，我上次去拜訪委員的時候，委員也有展示類似這樣的動態戰情顯示，然後給我們看，我覺得國防部回去確實要好好研究一下，3維這種顯示方式，我們應該會來研究一下；而您剛提到陸軍的UTM部分，現在也應該在進行當中，要將地圖數位化，要採數位地圖，這個應該沒有問題。另外，有關軍事院校的教育行政預算，我們現在是列入作業維持費裡面，今年我們也打算要增加，大概114年的預算需求會到25億，希望能夠超過113年預算的7,000萬元，我們規劃向行政院爭取政府預算。"],["陳委員永康：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝陳永康委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、國防部的備詢。","報告院會，外交及國防組之質詢已詢答完畢，我們謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下決定：下次會議進行經濟組之質詢。","報告院會，現在我們繼續處理復議案。本院民進黨黨團針對第18次會議報告事項第6案、15案、16案之決定提出復議，請公決案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":90,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-19","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃健豪","黃仁","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳素月","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林國成","陳瑩","黃珊珊","張智倫","蔡其昌","羅廷瑋","謝龍介","賴士葆","林俊憲","林宜瑾","王定宇","陳永康"],"page_start":17,"meetingDate":["2024-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00003","1136301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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那麼這裡面的每一個元素我們都連結到資料庫。 這個未來可以跟我們的院理跟國防部乃至於這個國土安全辦公室我們都可以提出建言。國家安全社會堅韌民心安定經濟繁榮軍事堅強太海和平"},{"start":250.336,"end":278.553,"text":"他所有的連結都跟治安有關但實際上他的外圍包括了就是國家安全戰略的八個面向政治外交經濟軍事這涉及到兩岸的關係能源社會醫療產業他是基建基礎建設所以我們要做管控分歧做風險控管做情勢的控管做衝突的控管"},{"start":279.955,"end":297.176,"text":"在基建部分是風險、禦印、災難管制、災害管制、災損管制。 在這個環節內,我們政府的領導、總統、國安會、行政院、國防外交、陸委會是環環相扣。"},{"start":299.543,"end":323.396,"text":"現在的總統提出了新的委員會當然可能是跟我們部分行政院的工作是有部分重疊所以他這個組織架構下將來希望在建制的框架下比較有明確的定義這樣在有限的資源分工下是比較可以落實希望不要重複浪費人力但是成果我們是希望累積"},{"start":326.067,"end":337.978,"text":"各位看一下這個就是我們國家安全戰略發展的一個方式這是一個methodology在圖的右側是國內情勢影響及趨勢"},{"start":339.895,"end":356.155,"text":"在左側是全球環境影響及趨勢,左邊是動態比較大,右邊是國內的靜態比較可控制,但是這兩項產生的因素都直接影響到我們的評估,也就是我們的幾個重要"},{"start":357.776,"end":357.996,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":381.94,"end":409.827,"text":"理想的過程常常我們常說無縫接軌但是無縫接軌實際上只有單線鐵路叫無縫接軌如果有雙線交叉有多重配置必然會有重置性Redundancy而不是單一的想法那最後我用美國的國家安全戰略來顯示我們跟美國學習了這麼多年但是精髓啊並沒有完全掌握到"},{"start":410.862,"end":434.237,"text":"他的國家安全戰略里面包括了國家的利益目標還有他的優先順序那麼如何去整合國家的實力包括國家安全的方向但是他下面的國防戰略就跟他有重疊性包括戰略的背景因素包括戰略的目的如何完成目標"},{"start":435.526,"end":435.786,"text":"﹚陳永康"},{"start":460.967,"end":482.905,"text":"每四年每兩年都出的刊物這都是公開的當然還有機密本我們在2021年出了我們的四年期國防總檢討那麼2023年出了我們的國防政策白皮書左側因為目前"},{"start":484.192,"end":491.037,"text":"沒有法定國家安全戰略的文件,也就是沒有明確的從上到下的政策指導。我在想這個顧部長日理萬機可能還沒有時間去看這兩本刊物。 這個我們的四年期國防總檢討一共48頁,中間講到"},{"start":514.924,"end":539.096,"text":"國防戰略軍事戰略一頁半2023年的這個國防戰略軍事戰略在這本書裡面183頁講到戰略一共三頁半也就是說整本的書啊多半都是這個美編的圖集卡通示意圖"},{"start":541.869,"end":567.729,"text":"美國國會在2017年取消了四年期國防總檢討。我也面對過美國參加聽證的前政府官員。他說因為四年期總檢,雖然每四年發行一次,但每年開會,大部分是由下屬單位上百人共同創作,寫出這本東西來。因此他聚焦在美國國防產業區域性的利益。"},{"start":569.056,"end":569.256,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":596.335,"end":620.431,"text":"過去我們常常說標準作業程序SOP其實在軍事作戰指揮我們叫ROE就是戰務令接戰規定這些東西國防部現在已經開始啟動但是呢腳步要加快我們給各位看一張這個圖這是一個東北亞整個大區域的圖經過異地空間資訊系統的校正"},{"start":628.145,"end":640.393,"text":"這個是在總統就職之前去年的1月9號中共發射的火箭從西艙但是因為它是用平面的突擊來顯示這個狀況那麼產生了一些錯誤的狀況"},{"start":647.654,"end":675.331,"text":"如果能夠用3D的圖示顯示發射位置發射時間就發現它的衛星通過我們本島上空是600公里那算太空因此不形成威脅但是那一次啊發布了國家級的防空警報這個事過境遷但是國防部現在已經改進在這一次中共預備發射衛星可能是明天發射那麼國防部已經明速說這個是走太空並不影響我們的空域安全"},{"start":678.784,"end":707.41,"text":"這個是兩年前培洛西訪問造成中共一個威者武嚇的實彈軍演就是發射導彈飛越台灣上空但是當時我們並沒有用這個3D的圖像來做解釋所以只有左上角的那個平面顯示我們根據的資料國防部沒有發布是日本公佈的所以根據這個資料我們來模擬看它產生的彈道實際上都是在太空平流層以上"},{"start":712.537,"end":712.678,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":719.326,"end":719.526,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":747.332,"end":764.47,"text":"有關剛才前面黃榮委員提到聯合立見我的建議是我們要把格局放大要有宏觀的大區塊也有圍觀的細節要把它整合起來所以我們看到並不是上面那塊上面這塊的圖是國防部發布的"},{"start":765.463,"end":789.423,"text":"我幫國防部的解讀是說他的巡邏區跟中共的不同 這個表示我們國軍拒止中共的艦機在24里之外但是共軍的圖是劃到12里 這表示我們國軍的付出辛勞是能夠守衛我們的疆土但是這個一般的老百姓看不懂圖 所以圖要套疊圖要校正"},{"start":790.443,"end":815.464,"text":"同時各位看到右邊的這個圖是臺灣以及當時的氣象圖我們陸軍仍然在用公元2000年的UTM坐標圖紙板圖要把它接起來那用陸軍的圖來判斷利劍演習可能就不能涵蓋就看不到所以利劍演習實際上我們用方法論其實共軍是沒有消耗的沒有戰火的消耗戰"},{"start":816.527,"end":816.707,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":834.793,"end":854.327,"text":"上面這個圖就是顯示這是今天早上7點30分我把共機擾台的圖機套到圖像上我們一定要用圖像套疊才能把不同的時間不同的位置不同的事件不同的動態最後研派出它不同的意圖"},{"start":855.188,"end":855.348,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":879.521,"end":894.873,"text":"2月14日這個金門因為中共三無遺傳違法越界至於我們執法的過程中產生差狀那麼這個問題還沒有解決當時我跟前院長在報告的時候我是列舉了這個14項"},{"start":896.454,"end":924.606,"text":"但是因為在狀況在變化所以我們繼續修正今天有18項這個法制的流程最後就是因為現在我們很多的依據是兩岸人民關係條例那麼事實上在太平島不在我們的領海基線化內所有的外島都不是我們的領海基線化定內所以在執法的過程上雙方的溝通用什麼條例來引述是很重要另外一個就是必須用標準的圖"},{"start":925.826,"end":932.891,"text":"（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":942.588,"end":971.159,"text":"共軍潛艦通過海峽那有許多的外面的媒體名嘴專家有各種的論述其實臺灣海峽的水非常淺尤其是在臺灣灘水深大概只有三四十公尺所以共軍的潛艦不管何潛艦傳統潛艦如果要回他的原造船船去修他一定是在海峽中線以西浮航那麼這張圖裡面包括海圖海底圖"},{"start":972.398,"end":972.598,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":1002.709,"end":1028.118,"text":"以當時的金門的雷達看,4點鐘就應該發現它了。 所以國軍是有保持偵測到,只是老百姓公佈了以後,外面就產生了很多的敘述。我在這邊提出的是說不要看小區塊,要用整個一個大區塊圖,包括細緻的圖,包括當時海底圖,岸上的地障圖,離岸風機,海上航行安全,用這個圖來做一個客觀的判斷。"},{"start":1032.609,"end":1048.419,"text":"剛才是一張衛照圖在套上南海的海圖在套上我們航空圖這都經過校正各位看這個航圖可以連接到海圖上面的菲律賓的基線是校正過的"},{"start":1050.692,"end":1074.594,"text":"這是所有南海人造島礁或是人工造島的島根據比例把它的標準位置把它顯示出來比方講今天的報紙講菲律賓在擴大新建中葉島在蓋機堡那中共當然是反彈但中葉島在1971年原來是我們的因為防台國軍撤離菲律賓佔領現在已經超過50年了既成事實"},{"start":1077.298,"end":1101.591,"text":"目前在仁愛礁那邊我個人的研究菲律賓跟中共還是以海巡執法不會變成真正的軍事衝突但其中有一個重點就是黃岩島黃岩島是我們中華民國領海法裡面標註的但是這個外交部的立場要向非方表示"},{"start":1102.827,"end":1103.648,"text":"用這張圖來顯示一下"},{"start":1125.66,"end":1143.331,"text":"如果我們建立一個虛擬的戰情室﹖不管是在國防部﹖不管是在行政院﹖國土安全辦公室或是在國安會﹖你可以透過資料庫﹖我們現在已經建立這個資料檔﹖所以你可以看到不同的﹖裡面的圖像各個顯示出來﹖動態﹖繼續做動態的﹖"},{"start":1155.333,"end":1182.704,"text":"要向大家報告是因為我們立法院的電腦跑不動我這個動態的要用電競的電腦這個是模擬的彈道這個是犯台的虛擬演習中間就是剛才我們行政院跟國安會大家互動的關係這個顯示是我們所有全台的超高壓配電所"},{"start":1183.368,"end":1184.568,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":1204.991,"end":1205.351,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":1232.608,"end":1247.421,"text":"高階政策下達人一個客觀的判斷他是一個工具是一個方法論不要用傳統的簡報圖每人三張紙這個時候高階長官是很難收斂的那麼現在就要談到教育了這個"},{"start":1254.141,"end":1262.434,"text":"曾國藩曾經講過忠心以文才為本,但今天很多年輕人也許不知道曾國藩是誰了。"},{"start":1263.376,"end":1265.176,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":1292.177,"end":1315.395,"text":"這是我們國內前七大這是大陸的前七大清華大學最高它是臺大的五倍每人每年平均的投資費南京大學是最低的它也是海洋大學的4.03倍所以這個給我們一個警訊就是說"},{"start":1316.63,"end":1339.876,"text":"大陸在人才培養上他跟你競爭他高科技但是他投資在教育上面。 這個是國內的七大在跟我們國軍的學校軍事教育再做個比較。 台大是我們軍事院校的2.8倍。 海大是最低的也是我們的1.3倍。"},{"start":1341.578,"end":1369.474,"text":"但這邊我提請部長一個注意點就是根據美國國防安和局安全合作局他公布的資料過去10年來我們的軍售軍售投資就是Foreign military saleFMS總共是255億美元換算成台幣每年10年每年是770億投資在軍售但是我們的軍事教育"},{"start":1371.82,"end":1393.112,"text":"只有20餘億元,如果不加速增加教育的投資,提升軍校的數值,我們是很難有效運用這些先進的武器做成有效的管理。第一個,所有武器裝備,它的操作手冊,維保手冊,作戰準則教範,全部是英文版。"},{"start":1394.671,"end":1422.557,"text":"AIT的處長要調回國了,他曾經講說我們基層官兵的英文數字閱讀能力要趕快提升越先進的武器越好的裝備你不能夠了解它的操作手冊不了解它的準則教範所以我們將來軍售的投資不僅只於買武器裝備人才培養大幅提升"},{"start":1423.643,"end":1423.863,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":1451.085,"end":1462.235,"text":"教育部有高等教育深耕計劃,今年編了100多億,但是國軍沒有在裡面有這個額度。在104年到106年,我當時曾經向當時的教育部長江偉寧爭取到給國防醫學院的這個經費,因此在當年的"},{"start":1474.192,"end":1484.737,"text":"八仙城報、粉城報、699個燒燙商．國軍收容了65個臨傷亡。．為什麼．我們當時在那個經費投資在燒燙商。．那麼今天國家有任何意外災難．國軍的意願是全部投入。．當時燒燙商、八仙城報的當天晚上．我們動員了300個醫生、護士、緊急人員．"},{"start":1503.746,"end":1504.187,"text":"：陳永康：陳永康"},{"start":1518.049,"end":1543.365,"text":"因為我們每年都收到他的教學評鑑、師資評鑑。 我們用的是同一個標準的教育體制,國軍不應該排除在外。 那至於我們國軍教育本身, 建請部長要考慮趕快提升教育經費。 因為老師的額度受限於編制,但是我們可以請好手、請高手,用特殊的講座方式。"},{"start":1544.48,"end":1548.642,"text":"報告委員我們有兩個學校包括國防醫學院跟理工大學已經在深耕計畫裏面我請部長再說明一下對我了解但是這個是國防部的錢"},{"start":1568.803,"end":1569.103,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":1596.929,"end":1605.591,"text":"（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":1624.707,"end":1650.018,"text":"李國鼎先生推薦（好不春前院長從美國邀請了一個黃孝宗博士（他是美國NASA太空總署（太空計畫火箭推進的主持人（做了兩個主持人回國（把中科院奠定了所有的基礎（那麼今天我們有6個所（5個中心並擁有關鍵技術科研的21個案（全部是據證式的管理（"},{"start":1651.288,"end":1651.668,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":1676.957,"end":1677.478,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":1695.609,"end":1696.63,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康﹚"},{"start":1713.37,"end":1737.475,"text":"我曾經在中科院擔任董事也提供了建言,尤其是部長是法律的專家,很多的跟國外廠商的簽約的過程中間,我們希望我們的法尊法治人員從開始就要介入。今天設限於時間有限,我的問詢到這邊,我要請一下院長做一些您對今天看法的陳复。"},{"start":1738.7,"end":1755.18,"text":"非常謝謝陳委員。其實從陳委員21日到立法院到國會來以後在許多關鍵的時刻都聽不到委員的一些看法我就表示非常的敬佩尤其今天看到剛剛的3D的圖像我覺得那個給我們是一個相當大的一個"},{"start":1756.172,"end":1756.192,"text":"市長﹗"},{"start":1785.073,"end":1793.426,"text":"部長您這邊跟委員報告我想剛剛委員指教很多我上次去拜訪委員的時候委員也有展示有"},{"start":1794.042,"end":1794.542,"text":"﹚陳永康﹚陳永康"},{"start":1820.947,"end":1823.089,"text":"（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":1856.731,"end":1857.613,"text":"謝謝陳永康委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長國防部的備詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}