{"error":false,"id":["154204"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154204,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154204","日期":"2024-06-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-26,35-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[26,35],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會","外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-26T09:22:53+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-26T09:30:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd190ccd2a1541f5c5eb086792d041729578f090ddb9b7d6d69bc5f279a864bc0545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:22:53 - 09:30:40","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:10:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查勞動部函送「駐印度台北經濟文化中心與印度台北協會促進僱用印度勞工瞭解備忘錄」之中、英及印地文文本影本案。\n【6月26日及27日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":115,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時22分）麻煩請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早，現在事實上在服務業工作的青年占了75%，在青年畢業後3年內從事服務業的比例，還是占了大概70%，整體來看的話，占整個服務業裡面大概是15%，所以看起來這是青年很重要的工作機會，所以服務業事實上比較不贊成來開放移工，否則就跟我們的青年在搶工作。可是服務業裡面，事實上還包含旅宿業，現在旅宿業的問題，看這則新聞就知道，勞動部要去開放，可是學者們事實上比較持反對的意見，為什麼呢？因為勞動部最近在研擬、修正留用外國中階技術人員的產業別當中，要開放我們的觀光旅宿業聘僱僑外生，所以我想問的是，你這個政策考量的是什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，確實服務業裡面青年占大多數，而且低薪，這是一個最嚴重的問題，所以我一直強調缺工不能等於低薪，所謂開放僑外生當房務員，這個標題其實是有點過度的解讀啦，因為是這樣子，我在開放僑外生的這個制度裡面，其實我們著重的是配額的打開，然後還有包括未來工作許可，開放讓他申請工作許可，我們是著眼於把勞動力留下來。關於中階技術人員開放做房務員，這是觀光署的一個提案啦，報給國發會後，當然我們也樂觀其成，因為這個東西是這樣，它是有薪資上限的，不對，它是有薪資門檻的，所以它不會去壓低我們本勞的薪水，這個是有前提的。"],["林委員月琴：部長，我們擔心的是，這項政策預期就會有破窗效應，為什麼？各種服務業未來會不會比照這樣辦理，就是先放寬僑外生，最後還是期待未來開放移工？如果是剛才講的低薪的話，你應該是從青年如果都在做這個行業，應該是去提振薪水，而不是用移工來取代它，我覺得這個要去考慮。","疫情過後的確我們看到你們勞動部的數據，也就是逐季對人力需求的預估，大概整個產業都有需求，特別是我們的製造業是最大需求，可是我想要問的是，在臺印MOU裡面，第二條協議也是總額跟名額都由臺方決定，入境人數多寡臺灣有主導權，所以問一下勞動部這邊，未來會針對我們製造業底下的哪一個行業優先開放？是電信呢？還是食品加工？還是……"],["何部長佩珊：委員剛剛講的電信或食品加工都不是製造業，它們算服務業。"],["林委員月琴：我講的是製造業，你覺得會是哪一個？"],["何部長佩珊：製造業應該我們經過諮詢會議，像工總這樣的團體，他們是有表達意願的，可是必須等MOU通過之後，我們要再去訪問產業雇主的意見，讓他們確定到底是哪一個業別是最需要的才能開始進行。"],["林委員月琴：我再來要問的是，因為說要小規模試辦嘛！請問先進來的規模人數大概多少？"],["何部長佩珊：其實是非常少的。"],["林委員月琴：因為你已經有說要小規模試辦，有沒有一些規劃？大概多少？"],["何部長佩珊：我們的想像初期應該不會超過1,000人這樣子的規模。"],["林委員月琴：對於雇主的優先資格，你如何評選？而且提出申請的雇主如何知道自己具有優先性？"],["何部長佩珊：這個就是要看產業的需求，還有包括它的管理能力，這個要去確認、要去檢查的。"],["林委員月琴：所以勞動部是不是可以在試辦開始之前，應該事先明確的地把試辦的行業公布人數，把雇主的資格講清楚，所以不要讓流言來取代事實，否則現在謠言滿天飛。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["林委員月琴：再來，整個臺灣事實上是移工的引進國，可是難免會發生行蹤不明、醫療、勞資爭議、安置等需求，過去來源國當然會基於保護國民的立場，在態度上都會積極協助，過去越南對於臺灣境內的移工比較少提供支持，相較之下印尼跟菲律賓在臺灣都設有移工臨時的安置中心，如果來源國放手的話，所有風險就由臺灣承擔，所以在這次臺印MOU的文件裡面，第七條的社會保險負擔跟第十條行蹤不明移工的收容負擔上，印度方都說它會負責最終的擔保責任，所以想問，有沒有比較具體的，整個實際服務的作法有沒有具體的規劃？"],["何部長佩珊：是，這個部分就是，印方對我方有相當友善跟積極的表現，我們這次的MOU會簽成，跟印方非常積極有關係，所以我們也很感謝印方對我們的友好。因為他們也在這裡承諾，他們願意來負責，萬一有發生所謂無證移工的狀況……"],["林委員月琴：針對於未來行蹤不明的部分，勞動部現在在研擬外國仲介保護機制，要求外國仲介負擔遣返、收容、醫療費用，要建立停權的機制，這個政策可不可以3個月內正式提出？"],["何部長佩珊：我們儘量來做。"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩勞動部這邊。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["林委員月琴：為了降低移工因負債造成行蹤不明的問題，勞動部接著應該要規範外國仲介公司合理收取仲介費，部長同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：這是來源國的問題，可能會比較難去規範對方，我們只能建議它，在我們雙邊工作會議的時候，建議印方這樣做。"],["林委員月琴：最後當然還是要問，整個臺印MOU第十條，本來就要達成配合推動直聘的協議，現在移工團體也都倡議要學習韓國EPS的制度。韓國過去是仿效日本開放移工初期到巴西成立了專責單位來引進，所以想問的是，未來如果團體訴求要臺印MOU採取全面直聘，勞動部覺得可行嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們的MOU現在是雙軌的，我們沒有辦法只依靠直聘，這個要跟您這邊說明，謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：最後是希望勞動部在3個月內，還是提出具體的直聘政策，還有年底的時候是不是可以完成線上直聘系統的優化？"],["何部長佩珊：是，這是我們正在努力的。"],["林委員月琴：謝謝部長。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請陳菁徽委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-26,35-1","speakers":["王育敏","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","王正旭","邱鎮軍","羅美玲","洪申翰","黃秀芳","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","羅廷瑋","涂權吉","沈伯洋","陳培瑜","黃珊珊","林淑芬","陳瑩","劉建國","林憶君","楊曜","盧縣一","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":49,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查勞動部函送「駐印度台北經濟文化中心與印度台北協會促進僱用印度勞工瞭解備忘錄」之\n中、英及印地文文本影本案","agenda_id":"1136701_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.0559687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.7478437500000004,"end":3.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.56596875,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.152218750000001,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.957843750000002,"end":9.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.054718750000003,"end":10.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.99534375,"end":22.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.82159375,"end":16.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.22659375,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.453468750000003,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.827843750000003,"end":41.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.37034375,"end":45.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.846593750000004,"end":50.892218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.94284375,"end":70.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.32784375,"end":85.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.06409375000001,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.87409375,"end":94.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.63221875,"end":101.09534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.14596875000001,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.40221875,"end":119.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.13034375000001,"end":134.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.52534375000002,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.17909375000002,"end":144.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.20659375,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.47471875000002,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.37721875,"end":166.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.60409375,"end":176.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.24784375000002,"end":182.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.07409375,"end":1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個行業優先來開放"},{"start":201.385,"end":215.593,"text":"是電信呢?還是食品加工?還是...我一看電信或食品加工都不是製造,他們算服務業,對。只就是製造業應該我們經過諮詢會議,像工種這樣的團體,他們是有表達意願的啦。可是我們必須等MOU通過之後,我們要再去訪問這個產業僱主的意見啦。然後讓他們確定到底是哪一個業別是最需要的。"},{"start":229.54,"end":230.001,"text":"請問先進來的規模人數大概多少?"},{"start":239.699,"end":244.061,"text":"對於僱主的優先資格,你如何評選?而且提出來申請的僱主如何知道自己具有優先性?"},{"start":262.773,"end":286.954,"text":"﹗"},{"start":287.114,"end":310.423,"text":"台灣事實上是移工的引進國可是難民會發生行蹤不明、醫療、勞資爭議、安置的這些需求那過去來源國當然會基於他保護他的國民的立場在態度上都會積極協助那過去在越南對於台灣境內的移工比較少提供支持相較之下印尼跟菲律賓在台灣都設有移工臨時的安置中心"},{"start":311.343,"end":312.324,"text":"對我方相當友善跟積極的表現"},{"start":341.104,"end":341.925,"text":"對於未來行方不明的勞動部現在在研擬外國仲介保護機制"},{"start":363.022,"end":390.927,"text":"要求外國仲介負擔遣返收容醫療費用,那要建立停權的機制,這個政策可不可以三個月內可以正式提出嗎?為了降低移工的負債造成刑方不明的問題,那勞動部接著應該要規範外國仲介公司仲介費合理收費,部長同意嗎?"},{"start":392.27,"end":398.834,"text":"最後大概還是要問的就是說整個台印NOU第10條本來就要達成配合推動職聘的這個協議然後現在移工團體也都倡議要學習"},{"start":419.302,"end":440.794,"text":"韓國的EPS這樣的一個制度韓國過去是仿效日本在開放移工初期到巴西成立了專責單位來引進所以想問的是未來如果現在團體訴求要台印MOU採取全面執聘勞動部覺得可行嗎委員我們的MOU現在是雙軌的"},{"start":441.715,"end":467.5,"text":"陳 陳 陳"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}