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等17人、委員顏寬恒等20人分別擬具「所得稅\n法部分條文修正草案」等3案","agenda_id":"1136501_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.09409375,"end":2.9672187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.2034687500000003,"end":3.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.79784375,"end":7.388468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.67096875,"end":9.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.750968750000002,"end":10.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.442843750000002,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.04596875,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.665968750000001,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.34909375,"end":19.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.656593750000003,"end":22.508468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.609718750000003,"end":23.301593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.80784375,"end":25.461593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.782218750000002,"end":27.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.33034375,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.32596875,"end":32.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.70096875,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.23909375,"end":46.268468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.43721875,"end":48.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.221593750000004,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.34284375,"end":60.814718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.236593750000004,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.025343750000005,"end":63.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.99971875,"end":72.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.59346875,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.10971875,"end":92.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.13471875,"end":98.14221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.43346875,"end":102.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.02346875,"end":103.40721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.84596875000001,"end":119.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.22346875000001,"end":140.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.86971875,"end":140.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.62471875,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.74096875,"end":177.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.52284375000002,"end":173.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.81346875,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.94909375,"end":208.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.72409375,"end":209.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.34409375,"end":220.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.35596875000002,"end":216.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.94159375,"end":227.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.99971875000003,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.63596875000002,"end":233.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.09971875000002,"end":240.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.40284375000002,"end":243.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.31346875000003,"end":249.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.44846875000002,"end":244.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.29159375,"end":251.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.07596875000002,"end":253.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.13471875000002,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.77596875,"end":256.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.51409375000003,"end":263.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.51721875000004,"end":264.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.83346875,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.96409375,"end":266.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.11596875000004,"end":269.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.04784375,"end":278.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.54846875000004,"end":291.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.46221875000003,"end":296.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.79471875,"end":301.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.65471875000003,"end":306.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.41346875,"end":307.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.93221875,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.36221875,"end":314.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.23909375,"end":316.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.58909375,"end":318.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.17096875000004,"end":320.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.95971875000004,"end":322.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.00159375000004,"end":323.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.99721875,"end":324.62159375000005},{"speaker":"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謝謝陳署長委員長問眾矚目大家都在期待新任的陳署長可以為財化法來多多規劃來運籌維握因為你第一線工作的你應該要做好最好的準備讓"},{"start":29.5,"end":54.743,"text":"財政部長他可以瞭解情況因為如同你我都知我們的部長過去的經驗是在國產的部分比較賢俗稅的部分財政的部分你就應該要好好來闢話一下請問現在20個版本裡面你比較屬意哪一個版本那已經開始從"},{"start":58.883,"end":82.035,"text":"這個運籌帷幄有開始在規劃國庫署心理的版本了嗎?各位委員報告現在的20個版本都有各自他們想要達成的目標比如說有的希望那個垂直分配的金額要放大那有的是則希望說在那個水平分配的時候可以用人口的比例來處理"},{"start":83.716,"end":101.468,"text":"但是不管哪一個方案其實都會存在一些問題尤其是水平分配的部分一定是要經過各個利害關係人員就是各個地方政府他們要有一個共識共識 你開始跟22線是有接觸的嗎?"},{"start":102.729,"end":120.758,"text":"感謝昭偉這邊喔上次在立法院已經辦過了一次公聽會需不需要再來一次昭偉上次在做那個條文討論的時候昭偉也有再提示說您還會再辦好沒問題可是到現在沒有人說希望我辦"},{"start":121.798,"end":132.264,"text":"我問了好多委員,如果召委可以,郭召委也可以辦啊。這是我們集思廣益嘛,大家多多來聽。不過你剛剛講的22縣市看似複雜,其實是很簡單的啦。這22個裡面,就垂直分配來說,有問題的是哪幾個?"},{"start":143.163,"end":166.124,"text":"如果以地方政府來說的話因為他們都只考量到地方自己的施政目標而已所以當然會希望中央的財源下放的金額越大越好但是我想整個政府的整體資源的分配絕對不是只用地方角度的觀點中央政府在一些經濟發展的政策或者是"},{"start":166.784,"end":169.365,"text":"對,錯綜複雜,最後一定會有個答案出來,就好像25年前通過的財化法一樣"},{"start":184.365,"end":198.46,"text":"這過就過了吧大家也許不滿意但是還是可以普遍可以接受就垂直分配的部分有沒有哪一個縣市覺得應該要做什麼修改讓它優於去年跟前年的"},{"start":200.637,"end":220.389,"text":"我想大家那個目前財政部目前中央這邊依據財政收支化分法的那個比率撥出去的金額其實對各地方政府來說目前是夠用的所以顯示在他們的財政剩餘或者是舉債的比例的降低"},{"start":221.309,"end":242.771,"text":"不過財政剩餘的提高或舉債比例的降低都是往好的趨勢在發展你上一次跟22縣市的首長見面是什麼時候?或是相關人員?就是上一次委員您召委召開的公民會我還不知道立法院那麼好用"},{"start":244.503,"end":263.717,"text":"我們自己在地方財政聯繫會報也都有跟他們討論你要趁這個暑假的期間多多召開召開一些會議或者三天兩夜也無所謂你再把召開的時間、地點跟我們講一下我再過去送"},{"start":264.895,"end":277.27,"text":"珍珠奶茶送雞排過去給你們加油打氣跟鼓勵然後順便聽聽看22縣市究竟垂直分配的部分有哪一個縣市是有問題的"},{"start":279.625,"end":306.944,"text":"其實你就現在的這個這個大概的邏輯裡面你每個只要增加百分之三十啊三十啊跟過去比起來根本就沒有人有意見啊如果你增加百分之三十跟去年比有意見的你把名單交給我我再一一來槌尋問他們問題是出在哪裡當然錢不可以亂花啊你造成很多的蚊子管造成很多的浪費"},{"start":308.127,"end":330.584,"text":"這不是全民所樂見的但是你要抓到一個大概百分之七七八八大概八成九成大家的接受程度慢慢再收斂一定就會有答案出來你能不能為這個25年沒有修法的財政收支劃分法你願意來盡一點力量"},{"start":332.463,"end":357.179,"text":"跟委員報告我們國庫署目前在做的事情就是朝這個方向在...好啦我希望說你的專業你們的辛苦跟研究就是趕快推出因為這個不是什麼政治性的對立的議題而是全民嗷嗷逮捕的一個重要法案過了以後"},{"start":357.919,"end":379.344,"text":"可以改大很多的城鄉差距有很多的地方真的是很需要的那你當然說什麼其實在這裡可能你一時答不出來沒有關係你就22縣市抽絲剝繭那我想你如果三天兩夜的聯席會你願意一個一個慢慢談"},{"start":380.744,"end":407.612,"text":"我們相信一定就會有答案出來與其不做倒不如左手開始動起來做9月22日開議之前你如果版本沒出來那黃沪珊珊委員怎麼辦還好其他委員都在等你如果真的都不動的話那最後被迫無奈沒辦法"},{"start":409.442,"end":436.062,"text":"國民黨的版本要通過我不曉得是最好當然是比去年的好但是有沒有更好的我們也期盼有更好的大家一起來討論我們這個海納百川我們心胸是開闊的只要是好的是對的大家一起共同來支持好不好是 謝謝委員我們會積極努力辦希望你歷史留名叫做陳柏臣"},{"start":438.068,"end":460.517,"text":"講究誠信,萬事一定成。好不好?謝謝蘇昂。謝謝。那請那個部長,莊部長。要請莊部長。莊部長好。委員好。親安陳家。親安親安。希望陳家一路都平安。"},{"start":461.687,"end":474.723,"text":"我覺得你們這個內容剛開始在做的確獲得很多年輕人的熱烈的迴響那請問這一波說房地產又飆漲"},{"start":480.128,"end":494.188,"text":"這個問題到底在是什麼地方出了問題我相信不是財政部你覺得勒?跟委員報告房屋價格的波動影響的因素有很多比如說市場的利率還有股市熱絡資金充沛"},{"start":494.788,"end":521.746,"text":"還有地區產業的發展還有經濟的基本面好的話還有重大公共建設陸續到位尤其是交通建設那會還有另外對於房市的預期心理甚至有對於通膨他認為要保值所以買房子所以影響房屋價格的因素蠻多的那新清安貸款事實上是協助年輕人他沒有自由的住家房屋的話讓他可以去買一間房子那政府給你協助"},{"start":522.145,"end":523.526,"text":"所以現在外界在講說房屋飆漲其實不是財政部的錯這句話對不對"},{"start":547.502,"end":566.689,"text":"我講房屋漲價因素很多如剛剛所說那但是對於有一些不當的一些話術或是投機行為等等比如說像網路揪團去買這個事實上是要抑制的我想這政府各部門也都注意到了那財政部也會去做相關的一些處理所以這樣一路走來有沒有人錯?"},{"start":569.144,"end":584.05,"text":"我覺得應該是說你運用新清安貸款去做不是做自助用去做投機甚至轉租而不是我們要做協助的對象那這樣的話是不應該的有人犯錯可是最主要機關單位都沒有錯"},{"start":585.953,"end":588.135,"text":"所以出發點是對的出發點是良善的那所以其實我也是覺得啦我也認同啦"},{"start":608.391,"end":635.98,"text":"至於房價會漲因素實在太多太多了比如說有位黃仁勳先生你認不認識在電視上常常看到他是他如果回來台灣那當然是帶動台灣的成長啊比如本席也公開請經濟部來邀約拜託這個輝達的公司總部可以設立在新店"},{"start":637.486,"end":659.38,"text":"因為新電有保高暖體智慧園區有第二期第三期現在還在推第一期的部分Tesla、鴻海、Google等等相關都已經進駐了所以新電又不跳電又不缺電所以來新電是多好的一件事所以要在這裡也拜託部長你也思考一下"},{"start":660.04,"end":679.335,"text":"多多鼓勵AI這些未來靈隱世界風騷的這些也是台灣人讓他們願意回來台灣居住在台灣跟留台灣但是我這邊要講因為時間關係主心正起來就是請部長思考一下怎麼樣讓"},{"start":681.256,"end":699.09,"text":"這些好的人才願意住在臺灣稅賦的問題很重要還有居留的問題希望你們也研究一下改天我們再來討論好 謝謝謝謝委員指導 謝謝羅明才委員的質詢待會我們在武力華委員質詢之後休息10分鐘緊接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢"},{"start":710.164,"end":710.505,"text":"謝謝主席,我請莊部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}