{"error":false,"id":["154296"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154296,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154296","日期":"2024-06-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-26T11:50:09+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-26T11:55:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd150dc6efd2c3cc493c258fa09de8d0f307ffb1ee7a12891013c1fa2322f5407415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:50:09 - 11:55:39","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長就「面對國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層之因應作為」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月26日及6月27日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":992,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時50分）好，有請連次長。"],["主席：我們再請連次。"],["連次長錦漳：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：次長好，今天討論的是國營事業的人力斷層，我在立法院都一直在倡議壯世代，所以我今天特別趕來給你提一個解方，希望你聽得下去。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["吳委員春城：從這個曲線當中看到，這三年來，從2020年到2023年，我們的工作增加了108萬人，工作量很多，但是因為少子化，所以求才方面大家搶人才，搶的越來越困難。我們從這一頁看，國營事業也是一樣，因為以前是金飯碗、銀飯碗、鐵飯碗、銅飯碗，但是這些保障越來越少，福利也……","所以你看我們的錄取率，這十年來台電從4%增加到13%，以前非常難考，但是現在10%還是很難考；中油大概都差不多，以前5%左右，現在都10%左右，增加了一倍錄取率，不過10%還是很難考。我們看到現在民間的，特別這些科技業，因為跟我們這些科技業在爭取人才，從他們的薪資排行來看，不曉得國營事業如何跟這些民間科技業來爭取人才、爭取這些年輕的人才，請問次長？"],["連次長錦漳：當然我們沒辦法跟這些科技業去爭取，因為他還有很多盈餘或分紅，因為國營事業這部分還是有一定的規定。我們現在針對這些新進人員，在一些跟他們有競爭的行業，我們還是會稍微再把起薪調高一點。針對剛才有提到以前的福利，我們現在也有在檢討這些福利的相關問題。"],["吳委員春城：OK，看起來還是很困難。"],["連次長錦漳：因為連公務人員都沒辦法跟科技業這邊……"],["吳委員春城：對，同樣的錄取率很低，10%對不對？有這麼優秀的人才，對不對？人家福利又高，你的保障現在也降低了，福利也不行。"],["連次長錦漳：是相對穩定。"],["吳委員春城：相對穩定，好，這一方面年輕人才很困難，所以我們應該要從高齡的人才。過去我們從這個表當中，我覺得我們現在用人單位都還是停留在1970年代，把主要的勞動人口放在下方──年輕人口，就這個金字塔的下方。但是臺灣已經進入到2040年，主力在高層的人口，所以要往這一方面，政策要大大的調整，不是一直想……","最近台鐵錄取一個員工64歲，錄取率10%欸！照常考上，結果錄取沒幾天就開始要準備退休，因為60多歲要退休。"],["連次長錦漳：有看到這個新聞。"],["吳委員春城：這些也是很荒謬的事情，所以這裡也看到，事實上我來談的高齡壯世代，特別是人力單位，其實有研究報告，他的策略跟創意事實上達到人生的最高峰，在60到80歲之間，不是你想像的，是我們沒有好好的去挖掘他的能力，所以國營事業好好的研究，因為你們用了龐大的人力。","我最近也推動勞基法第五十四條，目前要送到二讀，改了一個第五十四條，本來是65歲退休，以後要改成如果勞工有工作意願，得經雇主及勞工雙方協議延長之。所以國營事業是不是可以率先來響應這一方面的工作？","最後是不是可以請經濟部承諾，針對國營事業善用壯世代55+豐富的人力資源，可不可以在兩個月之內提出壯世代人力的運用計畫？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，其實我們現在國營事業在報考的時候也沒有年齡限制，剛剛講台鐵的那個例子，好像台電也有個例子，考完沒多久就退休，所以其實針對這些壯世代，我們在報考的過程中沒有做年齡限制……"],["吳委員春城：我有看到今天的報告，但是那些措施還是不夠的。"],["連次長錦漳：好，這個我們在2個月內提出壯世代人力運用計畫。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝次長。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員不在現場。","請林德福委員、林德福委員、林德福委員不在現場。","請林思銘委員、林思銘委員、林思銘委員不在現場。","請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在現場。","請伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員、伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員、伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員不在現場。","我們請鍾佳濱委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":234,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-17","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳亭妃","邱志偉","陳超明","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","陳培瑜","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","葉元之","吳春城","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","林俊憲"],"page_start":177,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"    邀請經濟部部長就「面對國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層之因應作為」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136701_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.28409375000000003,"end":2.2078437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.56159375,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.429718750000003,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.19721875,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.11159375,"end":25.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.53346875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.07346875,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.242218750000003,"end":26.355968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.84534375,"end":30.304718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.08096875,"end":32.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.20721875,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.23971875,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.45909375,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.92721875,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.78784375,"end":44.243468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.846593750000004,"end":49.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.947218750000005,"end":51.955343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.19159375,"end":54.469718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.992843750000006,"end":57.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.03034375,"end":58.080968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.080968750000004,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.11471875,"end":58.367843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.337843750000005,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.28596875000001,"end":73.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.21346875,"end":81.11534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.36846875,"end":84.67596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.70971875000001,"end":87.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.56159375,"end":89.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.67096875,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.08409375000001,"end":94.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.13846875,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.75221875000001,"end":111.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.36784375,"end":113.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.03846875,"end":121.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.51409375,"end":128.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.05721875,"end":129.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.69409375,"end":130.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.74471875,"end":134.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.13221875000002,"end":136.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.02221875,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.75596875000002,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.96409375000002,"end":158.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.09909375,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.58846875,"end":158.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.72346875000002,"end":158.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.97659375,"end":164.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.07346875000002,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.01784375,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.08534375000002,"end":168.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.94971875000002,"end":170.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.78909375,"end":172.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.05034375000002,"end":176.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.77159375000002,"end":175.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.76284375,"end":177.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.01596875,"end":178.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.05784375000002,"end":182.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.90534375000001,"end":190.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.54971875,"end":203.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.96096875,"end":216.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.67221875,"end":233.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.69659375,"end":223.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.36721875,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.41221875000002,"end":240.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.12846875000002,"end":245.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.90409375000002,"end":244.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.02221875,"end":245.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.37221875,"end":259.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.39971875000003,"end":285.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.53909375,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.82971875000004,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.17971875,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有請蓮次長我們再請蓮次"},{"start":24.587,"end":42.462,"text":"市長好,今天討論的是國營事業的人力斷層那我在立法院都在一直倡議壯世代所以我今天特別趕來給你提一個解方希望你聽得下去"},{"start":47.217,"end":67.949,"text":"從這個曲線當中看到這3年來從2020年到2023年我們的工作增加了108萬人工作量很多但是因為少子化所以這個求財大家搶人才搶得越來越困難"},{"start":69.835,"end":87.826,"text":"我們從這頁看,國營事業也是一樣因為現在以前是金飯完、銀飯完、鐵飯完、銅飯完但是這些保障越來越少,福利也那個所以你看我們的錄取率從2010年來台電從4%增加到13%"},{"start":95.211,"end":95.551,"text":"現在民間的"},{"start":112.403,"end":112.423,"text":"請問次長"},{"start":130.762,"end":130.902,"text":"OK 看起來"},{"start":158.852,"end":159.033,"text":"好,所以呢"},{"start":179.267,"end":202.953,"text":"這一方面年輕人才很困難所以我也告訴我們應該要從高齡的人才那過去我們從這個表當中我也覺得我們現在用人單位都還是挺有在1970年代把主要的勞動人口放在下方年輕人口就這個金字塔的下方但是台灣已經進入到2040年"},{"start":205.057,"end":232.647,"text":"那個主力在高層的人口所以要往這一方面那個要政策要大大的調整你不是一直想最近有一個台鐵的錄取一個員工64歲考上10%照常考試錄取的結果錄取你幾天就開始要準備退休因為65歲要退休所以呢相關的這一些也是很荒謬的事情"},{"start":233.547,"end":252.899,"text":"所以這裡也看到事實上這個我在談的高齡壯世代不是我們特別是人力單位其實有研究報告他的策略跟創意事實上達到人生的最高峰在60到80歲之間不是你想像的是我們沒有好好的去挖掘他的人力"},{"start":254.1,"end":277.936,"text":"所以國營事業好好地研究因為你們用了龐大的人力所以我最近在推動勞基法54條目前要送到二讀這個改了一個54條本來是65歲退休以後要改成如果勞工有工作意願得經僱主及勞工雙方協議延長之"},{"start":280.237,"end":298.22,"text":"所以國營事業是不是率先來來響應對於這一方面的工作所以最後是不是可以請經濟部可否承諾針對國營事業善用壯士代55家豐富的人力資源可不可以在兩個月之內提出壯士代人力的運用計畫"},{"start":299.599,"end":299.619,"text":"謝謝市長謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}