{"error":false,"id":["154309"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154309,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154309","日期":"2024-06-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-26T11:36:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-26T11:44:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd14f22f0e5a19f302668d28c953871b3697ffb1ee7a1289101def7ba9b4f84173b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:36:04 - 11:44:26","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「消防法第十五條、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「消防法第二十一條之一、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。【第一案及第八案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n【6月26日及27日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":731,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時36分）謝謝主席，請部長和署長。"],["主席：好，請部長和署長，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長和署長。部長可以一邊回答一邊休息，沒關係。不過體貼你劍及履及，一邊答一邊休息一下，沒關係。"],["劉部長世芳：我無法兩邊都做到一邊答一邊休息，我還是答好了，沒關係，本來就應該的。"],["張委員啓楷：應該啦！今天我們一起做重要的事情，老實說，保護消防員，也是保護我們自己的財產跟生命安全。去年的明揚大火，老實說真的很不捨，你看我們4位消防人員進去救火就殉職了，很不幸，去年發生這件事情，其實針對化學物品、危險物品，它有登記，可是第一個，數量出問題，沒有標示數量；第二個，位置也沒有標示，對不對？然後工廠負責人自己也都不知道，所以今天本席的質詢重點放在第一個，資訊是否有串接到消防救災的資訊平臺？落實是最重要，老實說規定是很多的，像我在經濟委員會已經提了案，等一下我會講說我們在經濟委員會過了哪一個案子。可是，第一個，除了經濟委員會過了加重罰則及每個月有沒有申報之外，其實最重要的還是剛剛講的，不要到時候去救火時，結果數量不知道、位置也不知道，去年就發生這個遺憾的事情，請署長回答，今年到目前為止，這個數位平臺有沒有串接到你這邊？包括環境部的化學雲，對不對？"],["蕭署長煥章：是，跟委員報告……"],["張委員啓楷：到目前串接到消防救災資訊平臺的狀況是怎麼樣？尤其我最關心的，一定要數位化，好不好？請說明。"],["蕭署長煥章：是，跟委員報告，化學雲端的資料是統合勞動部、經濟部、環保署還有消防的資訊，這些資訊在雲端裡面也介接到我們消防119派遣系統，目前只要派遣的工廠是化學工廠，它會跳出一個H-Card和裡面有什麼危險物品的資訊，第一，這個資訊就會送到我們的派遣端、送到派遣分隊。"],["張委員啓楷：你說的我都知道，去年其實也有這個規定，對不對？為什麼去年做不到？"],["蕭署長煥章：去年沒有到這麼細緻，去年是申報的部分出問題了，它就是沒有把這個工廠到底有多少……"],["張委員啓楷：所以我們要對症下藥。"],["蕭署長煥章：對。"],["張委員啓楷：所以，我代表台灣民眾黨在經濟委員會提案做兩件事情，一個就是加重罰則，提高一百倍，所以現在變500萬，對不對？另外我還要求了一個非常重要的，你現在的是1,000萬，這是現在的，而經濟委員會在院會三讀的那個是500萬，是工廠輔導法那部分，這個很好，我覺得這個罰則都要加重的，我們都贊成。第二個，我還代表民眾黨提了一個很重要的案子，工廠如果有危險的物品，你要主動而且每個月要申報，這個是經濟部長當場答應我要落實到施行細則的，可能我再問一下經濟部，經濟部現在有落實做這個事嗎？5月8號就三讀了，現在有沒有落實做這個事情？"],["劉副局長繼傳：跟委員報告，經濟部目前針對申報的部分大概有兩個規定，第一個叫做定期申報，那個是半年的部分，第二個部分叫做動態申報，只要廠商在工廠裡面有危險品的話，它有異動、數量增減的時候，它就要隨時來做申報。"],["張委員啓楷：所以動態一定馬上落實……"],["劉副局長繼傳：對、對。"],["張委員啓楷：可是最重要的，那天是你們部長答應我的，對不對？"],["劉副局長繼傳：對、對。"],["張委員啓楷：現在不能半年喔！"],["劉副局長繼傳：我們的動態申報……"],["張委員啓楷：你怎麼會停留在半年？"],["劉副局長繼傳：沒有，半年是定期，定期是半年申報。"],["張委員啓楷：那你所謂的動態是多久一次？"],["劉副局長繼傳：動態的話是隨時，只要它……"],["張委員啓楷：沒有、沒有，我所說的不是等半年才公布一次，動態當然是隨時要申報，可是每一個月至少很清楚的，你要定期一個月申報一次，這是當初和你們部長說好的，你要把施行細則裡面的半年要改成一個月，要落實，好不好？"],["劉副局長繼傳：是。"],["張委員啓楷：OK！我要追這個東西，就是要串接到你這邊，你的資訊才能夠接起來，好不好？來，我再問你一個最近的，這個事情很重要，前天南韓發生鋰電池工廠的火災，這個署長應該一定有注意到，23條人命！其實我們新北前陣子2月份在深坑也發生鋰電池工廠爆炸，整個臭氣都燒到新店、中永和跟文山區了。老實說，鋰電池很危險，現在針對這部分有兩個很大問題，這可能部長要答了，目前鋰電池的安全是三不管，你的國土署有在管，經濟部有產發署還有標準局、消防署和交通部，這邊現在沒有整合，要怎麼樣才能來管這個？部長，能夠出面整合嗎？還是要經濟部？"],["劉部長世芳：我想如果站在消防署的立場，我們一定會來整合，因為鋰電池如果發生火災或是爆炸的話，最後還是要消防人員去負責救火，您剛剛所提報的就是有關於鋰電池的部分目前是經濟部在管，但是我們也知道，其實我們消防署很快就把美國防火協會裡面如何處理鋰電池火災的相關資訊已經把它download下來，但是未來怎麼樣落實的部分，我們恐怕要再跟相關單位包括經濟部再做一個比較細節上的探討。"],["張委員啓楷：誰出面去召集這個會議？現在是三不管，誰要出面去召集？部長還是署長？"],["蕭署長煥章：我們消防署出面找這些單位來，其實民眾的配合很重要，民眾怎麼達到將合格的產品可以用得很清楚，倉庫的部分怎麼分配，區域的概念能夠處理得好，當然在消防的部分就是救災，目前很確定就是鋰電池這個部分需要大量的水才能滅火，所以目前我們兩個區塊正在進行，就是倉儲的部分，我們最近會把倉儲自動灑水做配置，而工廠的自動灑水，我們在下半年會把這個條文列出來，當業者真的發生問題，能夠達到一個控制程度的目標，跟委員報告。"],["張委員啓楷：你們把它具體化，好不好？"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我們來做三件事情，好不好？第一、以南韓這個鋰電池事情為鑑，我們先針對我們的打火兄弟，消防員要保護好，所以碰到鋰電池救災的標準作業程序（SOP），你目前應該有，對不對？"],["蕭署長煥章：已經有了。"],["張委員啓楷：你再怎麼把它精進一下，好不好？大概一個禮拜內，針對最近發生又一些事情，對不對？今年2月新北發生這個事情……"],["蕭署長煥章：一個月。"],["張委員啓楷：一個月，好不好？針對標準作業程序，把它精進，送一份到本席辦公室，這個要好好檢討，好不好？要好好檢討。"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，現在有一個危險的地方，就是很多公寓大廈的樓下，新的大廈很多充電都在樓下，對不對？也發生過問題，對嗎？沒有發生過充電的……沒有？"],["蕭署長煥章：現在還好。"],["張委員啓楷：還好嗎？OK！現在他們很多都在下面充電，這個到底要怎麼去預防、怎麼保護住戶跟我們消防人員的安全，這個也注意一下。"],["蕭署長煥章：我們跟國土署合作……"],["張委員啓楷：第三個，現在相關部會就是剛剛講的，你要趕快出面去邀集各個部會相關的，不要變成三不管，好不好？擬定整個辦法出來，這也是多久給我？一個月可以？"],["蕭署長煥章：跨部會可能給我們再多一點時間，可能三個月的時間，好不好？"],["張委員啓楷：三個月？"],["蕭署長煥章：對，三個月……"],["張委員啓楷：OK！第一個一個月，後面這個三個月，好不好？共同努力啦！"],["蕭署長煥章：是、好，沒問題。"],["張委員啓楷：一方面保護我們所有民眾，一方面消防員的安全要多幫忙，好不好？"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：一起努力，謝謝部長、署長。"],["主席：好，謝謝張啓楷委員質詢。","下一位黃仁委員、黃仁委員，黃仁委員不在。","何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在。","邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員不在。","林德福委員、林德福委員，林德福委員不在。","林思銘委員、林思銘委員，林思銘委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","游顥委員、游顥委員，游顥委員不在。","吳宗憲委員請質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-25","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","廖先翔","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","張宏陸","黃建賓","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","黃國昌","牛煦庭","蘇清泉","丁學忠","林岱樺","徐欣瑩","范雲","張啓楷","吳宗憲","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":87,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具\n「消防法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」\n案；四、審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「消防法第十五條、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文\n修正草案」案；五、審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「消防法第二十一條之一、第二十一條之二及第\n四十三條之一條文修正草案」案；六、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136501_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.734718750000001,"end":8.654093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.755343750000002,"end":11.185343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.00721875,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.05784375,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.54221875,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.879093750000003,"end":30.203468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.74346875,"end":34.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.11409375,"end"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