{"error":false,"id":["154325"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154325,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154325","日期":"2024-06-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-26T12:13:44+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-26T12:20:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd1956f9f7c941ca1a001867feb29c202cf7ffb1ee7a1289101f9d33c05e56a85b85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:13:44 - 12:20:06","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部就「智慧航安、智慧港灣（港口）相關計畫辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":914,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時13分）主席，在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請林次長和臺港公司李董事長。"],["主席：好，請相關人員。"],["林次長國顯：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好，董事長好。其實這是我第三度，李董事長應該很清楚，我在談港區要設置氫能專區，建置基建工業剩餘熱能再利用以利減碳。我們來先看荷蘭將打造全球最大的綠色氫氣場，打算在鹿特丹港建造一個最大規模的綠色氫氣場，用離岸風電產生的電力產生氫氣，再用原來的油氣管線銷往歐洲。請問次長，你大概有略略聽聞吧？"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們來看一下現況怎樣。這就是歐洲氫能樞紐的雄心壯志，裡面有負責生產的、有進口的、有管道運輸的，還有加氫站；未來還有1,000輛的氫能卡車運送氫能，像運油的油槽車一樣，在安特衛普、杜伊斯堡和鹿特丹之間行駛。","目前鹿特丹的構想是這樣，短期內綠氫產量不夠，用藍氫、碳捕捉來產生氫氣；長期來看，他們用風光電能發電來產生綠氫、產生電解水。縱使這樣還是不夠，他們還思考到縱使在荷蘭、縱使在歐洲，還要進口用綠氫、綠氨的方式輸入液態氨，這個能源中心還要管線輸入。請問經濟部，我們國內本身的綠電能跟荷蘭比嗎？可能不太了解荷蘭的綠電情況啦！我跟你說，其實臺灣的風電潛力是遠高過於荷蘭。","我們再看日本的橫濱港跟鹿兒島港也是這樣的規劃，日本其實沒太多綠電，但是它用有限的綠電來產生綠電跟氫能。因為日本大量依賴燃料進口，所以有一個潔淨燃料加注的專用碼頭，而且免徵進港費，用這樣的方式來取代國內的液化天然氣、甲烷和氨。看起來這是未來IMO船舶淨零的目標。日本是不是執世界航運的牛耳？是嘛，所以它要用潔淨燃料。是不是可以請次長開始積極要求臺港公司在港區設置氫能專用區域，包括碼頭生產、儲存跟運用。"],["林次長國顯：我先請董事長跟您報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，董事長。"],["李董事長賢義：我想氫能的發展是世界潮流，我們港務公司在港口是配合，剛好你有談到綠氫，這個就是離岸風電的電力……"],["鍾委員佳濱：來自氫？"],["李董事長賢義：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那進口呢？如果船舶要加潔淨能源，進口的這些油槽可能不是裝LNG了，可能是裝氨。你們的管線都準備好了嗎？"],["李董事長賢義：目前我們針對氫能有盤點，臺北港有一個南碼頭地區。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，那高雄呢？南部。"],["李董事長賢義：高雄就是洲際二期旁邊有一個南星計畫，目前也配合中油在準備填土，那也是做這一方面……"],["鍾委員佳濱：這些珍貴的港區空間目前有一部分是用來組裝離岸風機的，對不對？"],["李董事長賢義：是、對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：未來他們是不是有用來儲存氫能？"],["李董事長賢義：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有準備給氫能，做氫能、產製氫的工廠，有沒有？"],["李董事長賢義：我想離岸風電的開發商針對氫能這個趨勢，也跟我們一直在探討，所以我們在臺中也有盤點。你剛剛有說到氨的部分，我們也是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：跟誰？"],["李董事長賢義：跟台肥。"],["鍾委員佳濱：跟台肥，沒錯。"],["李董事長賢義：對，跟台肥，在臺中港。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有跟哥本哈根CIP。"],["李董事長賢義：對，CIP。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我要跟次長說，今天因為都是副首長來，要請經濟部甚至更往上的行政院高層強調，氫能這個趨勢，臺灣要做好準備，連日本、荷蘭他們都有這樣的雄心壯志，就算日本是一個能源輸入國，都想到了潔淨燃料、都想到進口的氫能，來提供國內氫能的需求。所以港區的空間所需要的油槽不只是台電公司去建三接而已，可能舊有的港區要擴充這樣的接收能力。次長是不是可以說明一下。"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，確實因為IMO規定氨、氫、甲烷、LNG都是未來乾淨能源，我們全國船運力在全世界也是滿高的，第八名。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對！"],["林次長國顯：運力也滿強的，所以基本上我所知道的，像裕民航運、長榮甚至陽明，都已經……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我上次就問過你們部長了。"],["林次長國顯：已經都開始了，開始在處理這個問題。所以對港公司來講，它現在就是提供土地，跟經濟部相關的產業結合，來發展相關的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：珍貴的港區空間要預留新能源發展所需要的。"],["林次長國顯：是，因為我們自己也需要加這類的能源。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，還有一個是跨經濟部的，最後30秒鐘。"],["林次長國顯：是，這邊可能也要能源署……"],["鍾委員佳濱：比利時安特衛普的工業剩餘熱能，因為在我們港區附近會有很多工業區，它可能需要就近使用氫能，它產生的餘熱再利用，雖然這套系統應該是經濟部來規劃，但是未來港區規劃的時候，你們有沒有去思考配置像安特衛普、布魯日港的建築使用這些功能？管線。"],["李董事長賢義：目前這一個港區，如果是工業熱能要轉換，大概只有三成。剛好高雄港那裡有中油、中鋼……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，都是國營事業，都可以來配合。"],["李董事長賢義：應該都可以來配合，我們港區會跟他們配合。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以是經濟部跟交通部要共同來努力。","好，最後兩個訴求，請評估「於港區設立氫能專用區域，包含專用碼頭及生產、儲存、使用等基礎建設」的可行性。最後請評估「港區結合鄰近工業區建置工業剩餘熱能再利用設施」的可行性，可以嗎？"],["林次長國顯：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我也不跟你限日期了，您再給我，本席這邊我們來追蹤，好不好？"],["林次長國顯：是，這應該要做的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝次長、謝謝董事長。"],["主席：謝謝，鍾佳濱委員發言完畢。","現在請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-17","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","蔡其昌","林俊憲","許智傑","何欣純","陳素月","徐富癸","邱若華","游顥","黃健豪","魯明哲","陳亭妃","黃仁","陳冠廷","洪申翰","鄭天財Sra 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所以我要跟次長說 今天因為都是副首長來 要請經濟部甚至更往上的行政院高層 要強調 氫能這個趨勢 台灣要做好準備連日本 連荷蘭 他們都有這樣的雄心壯志 就算是日本他是一個能源輸入國他都想到了潔淨燃料 他都想到進口的氯胺 氫能 來提供他國內氫能的需求 所以港區的空間 可能所需要的油槽"},{"start":271.364,"end":278.389,"text":"不只是台電公司去三接而已可能我們就有感覺到擴充這樣的接收能力是不是市長可以說明一下"},{"start":279.144,"end":301.822,"text":"跟委員報告確實因為IMO規定安、清跟LNG都是未來乾淨能源我們現在船公司我們全國船運力在全世界也是蠻高的第8名所以運力也蠻強所以基本上我所知道像玉米航運長榮甚至陽明都已經我上週問過你們部長已經都開始了"},{"start":303.303,"end":304.003,"text":"伊利斯安惠普的公寓剩餘能量熱能是怎麼樣?"},{"start":324.716,"end":352.394,"text":"因為在我們港區附近會有很多工業區它可能需要就近使用氫能那它產生了餘熱的再利用雖然這套系統是以經濟不應來規劃但是未來展區規劃的時候你們有沒有去思考配置這個包括安特魏普、布魯日港它的建築使用這些的功能管憲目前這一個港區的話如果說是工業要轉成這個大概只有三層的那個所以港區的話剛好是高雄港那裡"},{"start":353.574,"end":381.045,"text":"中油、台、金、鋼這些都可以來配合所以是經濟部跟交通部要共同來努力最後兩個訴求請評估與港區設立輕能專用區域含專用碼頭及生產儲存運用的基礎建設的可行性最後請評估港區結合鄰近工業區建置工業剩餘熱能再利用設施的可行性可以嗎可以那我也不跟你限日期了您再給我本席這邊我們來追蹤好不好這應該要做的好謝謝市長謝謝董事長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}