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10:16:37","會議時間":"2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長就「農業移工政策改善措施」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月26日及6月27日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":368,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時5分）主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我們今天討論農業缺工問題，我記得從107年開始，我們努力把這個問題檯面化，終於在108年以試辦方式，率先試辦第一批800人，執行到現在，根據統計，隱性的不說，顯性的部分，我們大概需要的移工缺口將近2萬人，當然，第二階段1萬2,000人執行到現在，大約已經有七成左右進來，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，大概8,505人。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大概七成嘛！在這樣的情況下，我們在地方還是聽到很多聲音，有人會說他老了，但孩子不接工作，所以人力缺得很嚴重，而且這些人都是我們的寶貝，所謂的寶貝是什麼？他們都是在最基層的每一個環節，也碰到所有的氣候變遷，等於是一個活生生的農業界最重要博士，而且他們現在還在執行當中，所以缺工的問題，我們務必要幫他們解決。剛剛也聽到部長說現在的1萬2,000人已經用了七成，盤點後還要8,000人，現在的這些對接介面，因為今年就要到了，怎麼辦呢？請說明。"],["陳部長駿季：目前我們就是為了防止年底以後就斷一段時間……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們盤了8,000人，8,000人裡面包括農、林、漁、畜部分，因為我們負責這部分，現在就是積極跟勞動部爭取，說服他們勞動缺工問題，有必要做一個補充。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，我們當你的後盾，你有信心一定爭取到嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：我想勞動部也非常支持農業部的提案，他們也非常重視。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們要的是結果，到年底這個介面一定要對接成功，繼續加油！"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們有信心，我們有信心。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們有信心，我就給你獎勵、鼓勵。","接下來我們要討論的問題，因為農業的技術是瞬息萬變，而且行業別也是瞬息萬變，在園藝部分，比如多肉植物，現在很多人，不管是在辦公室或家裡，都非常喜歡，這創造了很多產值，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，草皮也非常迫切需要，因為現在空屋問題，大家都希望把自己的家弄好，甚至在居住的時候，都希望有草皮，在這樣的情況之下，草皮園藝也非常的需要，其實在我的選區后里，是全國草皮最棒的地區，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是目前草皮的類別還沒有辦法加入這個行業，怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們有特別針對一些新興的、比較需要的部分提出來，譬如像草皮、菇類等。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，上一次本席跟你討論的時候，連花卉都沒有，最後你加進來，那草皮呢？"],["陳部長駿季：對，6月7號的時候，針對新的部分，我們已經有跟勞動部爭取，另一方面，我們也降低它的門檻，因為如果門檻太高了，就算有提供……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你要去盤點。"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分我們都盤點好了，已經在6月7號有部分行文到勞動部，我們也會持續往降低門檻、增加新的品項為目標前進。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席請教，草皮的部分會放寬嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們6月7號有提出，應該會吧！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是務必，這是務必。"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經有提案到勞動部了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：增加的類別，除了草皮，還有什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：菇，還有芽菜。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：芽菜，非常的重要，菇有沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：菇的話，有一些門檻也會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：像新社現在連菇菌種都由我們的農會自己來協助，這是為國爭光，所以菇類、草皮都會在這一次……"],["陳部長駿季：還有芽菜。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候會公布？"],["陳部長駿季：我們在行政程序上一定會跟勞動部協調，然後跟它爭取……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你預估的KPI時間點在什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：我希望在年底之前都能夠完成，當然越快越好啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不可能到年底，現在才6月耶！"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼可能半年？你們不做事嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：因為勞動部有定期開會審查的機制，然後我們會跟勞動部……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼審也不要審到半年啊！大家都知道這非常的迫切需要啊！我們農民一天都不能等耶！"],["陳部長駿季：我們在6月7號已經提出來，我再拜託勞動部，希望能夠加速審查。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：加速審查、儘速開放，包括草皮、菇類、芽菜都要開放。"],["陳部長駿季：因為它有一部分還要修法，所以這個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你真的要謝謝我們臺中地區的草皮，像永旺公司是二、三十年來全家總動員不斷地在推陳出新，為我們國家賺了這麼多的稅，所以我們要全力支持它。像我們的香菇，我們做到被人欺負之後，甚至農會……這是你們輔導的，我也要感謝。現在菌種是由我們自己來做，這就是我們臺灣人的精神，我們一定要保護我們自己的農業，在相關的配套裡頭，我們開放了這個類別，但是在整個申請的過程，一定要好好的協助他們簡化手續，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：應該的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這部分我們必須要加油。接下來我要跟你討論雞蛋的問題，請問現在產地一斤多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：25.5元。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你看它就是一直盤，上個禮拜還有27.5元，現在已經變成25.5元，批發價本來大概是37元，現在是多少？29元！甚至有人說載去給豬吃，好辛苦！甚至一箱才300元，怎麼辦？您上次跟本席討論的，針對寡產雞，你說一個月我們要有50萬隻……"],["陳部長駿季：從120萬隻到180萬隻，大概60萬……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：維持兩個月嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：維持兩個月，每一個月增加淘汰50萬隻？"],["陳部長駿季：應該是60萬隻，從120萬隻變成180萬隻。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：60萬隻？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一隻補助多少？"],["陳部長駿季：20塊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一隻補助20塊？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你冷靜去想，好不容易生出來的雞蛋過量，甚至要去餵豬，心痛啊！接下來我們又看到因為你的產銷沒有安排好，所以一隻還要補助20塊，這都是人民的納稅錢啊！針對你的產銷機制，你現在希望控制在2,400萬顆，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在希望控制在這個樣子，本席也具體給你建議，你的產銷機制必須好好去盤點，好不好？你沒有去盤點，又要補助一隻寡產母雞20塊，這都是我們的錢耶！60萬隻double變成120萬隻，又要花多少錢？產生出來的雞蛋還要送給豬吃，它保存起來還要冷藏、還要電費，農民苦哈哈，雞農苦哈哈，不可以如此。請你去盤點，看看我們要怎麼樣讓產銷平穩，你把詳細的數字資料給本席好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，你知道本席非常關心遊蕩犬貓，關於TNR機制的SOP，整個流程要完善啊！在手術之後，應該要讓牠們經過幾天的觀察期才可以回置，但是現在第二十六條卻告訴我們只要一天，一天可以嗎？腸子破掉了、肚子也破了，這怎麼辦？可以嗎？本席具體建議，你應該要將TNR的手冊內容嚴格落實，基層都建議回置的時間要手術後的五天，部長，你認為呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得在回置之前一定要確保動物的福利，這是最大的一個前提，如果說牠……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！如果通通規定只有一天，肚子破掉也讓牠出來……"],["陳部長駿季：如果結紮以後有些傷口，那就應該要看當時的情況，我覺得一天可能太早了，要確保動物的福利是一個前提。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這是基本，第一線希望能有五天，我希望你去盤點，至少要三天，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是，我們會來檢討整個SOP。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把數字告訴本席，因為你們更離譜，肚子破掉的回置之後竟說請周邊的居民看一下牠到底在哪裡！所以本席要提出第二項建議，第一個是時間點請你們去盤點，本席具體建議至少要三天才能回置。第二個具體建議手術之後也應該要放晶片，你們去研議，這樣子你才可以管控這一隻到底跑到哪裡去啊，不然就會製造第二個問題嘛，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得委員的建議非常正確，就是當我捕捉之後要回置時，應該要放晶片，如果沒有的話，我會來要求，如此一來，後續才能夠有效的追蹤。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這樣才能達到效果嘛，對不對？謝謝你同意本席所提出的建議，結紮手術之後，你必須要放晶片，讓所有的人都能夠安心嘛，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第一項就是以照顧犬貓的安全為基準，本席具體建議是三天，你要把時間告訴本席好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：接下來請謝衣鳯委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-17","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","黃國昌","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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隱性還不說顯性的大概我們需要的這一些移工的缺口應該會有將近兩萬人那目前當然第二階段一萬兩千人執行到現在大約有七成左右進來 對不對對大概七成嘛那在這樣的情況之下我們在當地地方還是"},{"start":65.913,"end":65.933,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":96.173,"end":96.213,"text":"拜託解決這問題!"},{"start":116.861,"end":138.912,"text":"我想我們現在目前就是為了防止說年底以後就斷了一段的時間,所以我們盤了8000人,8000人包括封為農林移蓄這個部分,因為我們負責過來,然後現在就積極的跟勞動部去爭取,去說服他其實勞動的缺工是必要的,來做一個補充。"},{"start":139.352,"end":156.561,"text":"我們當你的後盾阿你有信心一定要爭取到嘛對不對我想勞動部也非常支持農業部的一個提案他們也非常重視阿我們要的是結果再到年底這個界面一定要對接成功繼續加油我們有信心那我們有信心我就給你獎勵鼓勵"},{"start":158.882,"end":178.783,"text":"接下來我們要討論的我們在基層因為我們的這個農業的技術訊息萬變而且行業別也訊息萬變原因裡頭比如說我們的多肉植物現在是很多人不管辦公室大家都非常喜歡這個創造了很多的產值對不對對"},{"start":180.725,"end":208.541,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":208.901,"end":226.226,"text":"但是目前草皮的類別還沒有辦法加入這個行業怎麼辦我跟委員報告特別是我們針對一些新興的這些比較需要的像草皮像一些菇色這些更需要的上一次本席在跟你討論的時候連花卉都沒有最後你加進來對我現在6月7日的時候我們已經新的部分我們會跟勞動部爭取然後另一方面我們會把它降低門檻"},{"start":235.288,"end":237.229,"text":"所以本期請教草皮的部分會放寒這是務必"},{"start":256.581,"end":268.494,"text":"對 我們已經有提案到勞動部去了增加的類別 草皮還有什麼菇吧 芽菜 芽菜 非常的重要 菇 菇在我的心色 我們現在連菇 菇菌種都我們農會自己來協助"},{"start":278.185,"end":281.612,"text":"這是為國爭光啊 為國爭光 所以菇類 草皮都會在這一次 芽菜 什麼時候會公布"},{"start":288.82,"end":311.876,"text":"我想我們在實驗程序上一定要跟勞動部協調然後跟他整理你預估的KPI的時間點在什麼時候我都希望在年底之前都能夠完成啦當然越快越好啊不可能到年底現在才6月我知道你怎麼可能半年你不做事嗎因為勞動部我想勞動部他有定期的這樣開會然後審查的一個機制然後我們會怎麼審也不要審到半年啊"},{"start":312.837,"end":316.862,"text":"大家都知道非常的迫切需要啊我們農民一天都不能等欸我再跟勞動部拜託齁能夠加速的審查加速審查競速開放草皮香菇菇菇類那個"},{"start":328.197,"end":343.395,"text":"那個銀芽芽菜都要開放因為他有一部分還要修法部長你真的要謝謝我們台中地區的這個草皮像我們的勇旺公司是"},{"start":344.622,"end":359.6,"text":"二三十年全家董總動員不斷的在推陳初心為我們國家賺了這麼多的稅所以我們要全力支持他像我們的香菇我們做到被人欺負之後我們甚至農會你們輔導的我要謝謝我們自己"},{"start":363.137,"end":363.757,"text":"我們現在三天現在一共多少?"},{"start":394.449,"end":394.709,"text":"25.5元現在29元"},{"start":408.999,"end":428.666,"text":"甚至有人說再來給我第一家好辛苦一箱甚至一箱一箱300塊怎麼辦您上次跟我本席討論的從寡產機對那麼你說一個月我們要有這個50萬隻120萬齁你要維持兩個月大概60萬維持兩個月嗎維持兩個月每一個月增加淘汰50萬隻應該是60萬120變成180"},{"start":440.132,"end":452.944,"text":"60萬隻 一隻補助多少 20塊 一隻補助20塊部長你冷靜去想好不容易生出來的雞蛋 過量甚至要去餵豬 心痛啊"},{"start":453.891,"end":477.601,"text":"接下來我們要看到人民的納稅錢因為你的產銷沒有去安排好我們還要一支補助20塊這都是人民的納稅錢你的產銷機制你現在希望控制在2400萬克 對不對你現在希望控制這樣子那所以本席也具體給你建立你的產銷機制"},{"start":479.929,"end":483.751,"text":"你的產銷機制必須好好的去盤點好不好你沒有去盤點一架子又要我們補助一隻寡產母雞20塊這都是我們的錢欸60萬隻double120萬隻又要花多少錢啊產生出來的雞蛋還要送給豬吃哇這個是他存起來還要冷藏還要電費農民苦哈哈雞農苦哈哈欸"},{"start":508.735,"end":524.998,"text":"不可以如此你去盤點我們要怎麼樣在產銷能夠平穩你把數量資料給本席好不好好最後一個議題我給你也就是你知道本席非常關心的我們流浪的遊蕩的這些犬貓"},{"start":526.206,"end":546.644,"text":"那我們現在有說啊天啊天啊的機制你的SOP流程你整個要完善啊我說你今天手術之後你應該要有讓他們幾天的觀察期才可以回治嘛你現在第26條告訴我你們告訴我只要一天"},{"start":547.905,"end":563.932,"text":"一天可以嗎?腸子破掉了!肚子也破了!這怎麼辦啊?可以嗎?所以本期具體建議你應該要將這個TNR的手冊裡面要嚴格的去落實到它上面基層都建議回治的時間要手術後的5天部長你認為呢?"},{"start":576.972,"end":577.112,"text":"對﹖這個基本"},{"start":596.124,"end":604.227,"text":"第一件希望五天我希望你去盤點至少要三天好不好好不好你把數字告訴本席因為你們更離譜叫說回字過去肚子破掉的說請周邊的居民你請看一下他到底在哪裡所以本期第二項建議第一個時間點你們去盤點本期具體建議至少要三天回字第二個具體建議手術之後也應該要有放晶片你們去研議"},{"start":625.416,"end":625.436,"text":"拜託!"},{"start":640.879,"end":640.959,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}