{"error":false,"id":["154413"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154413,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154413","日期":"2024-07-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-23","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第23次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":23,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第23次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-01T12:01:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-01T12:25:30+08:00","影片長度":"00:24:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1f04b26fe05fa65acdf3d96fd80cbb3cfe28e669f0977b51b7fdab9a2f286338b31144838ad882005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"12:01:01 - 12:25:30","會議時間":"2024-07-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關健保合理支付、保障醫護人員收入、設置百億癌症基金及健康投資等事項」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":803,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（12時1分）主席，是不是請我們邱部長？"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，你最近一次的就醫是什麼時候？你有沒有去診所看醫生？掛號費有沒有調漲？"],["邱部長泰源：我嗎？"],["林委員淑芬：對啊！"],["邱部長泰源：我不太準，我在臺大醫院看病有優惠。"],["林委員淑芬：這樣子喔，好。對啦，大人物包括立委，大概包括我自己，老實說我去看病，醫生認識的大概連掛號費都不收，所以我們這一些人都叫做特權人士啦，但我要講的是，一般人不是特權人士，我們這麼的特權，可是一般人其實滿受相當的影響，衝擊滿大的。因為調漲掛號費的醫療院所，你們號稱地方衛生局可以要求他們回報，但是我更想知道的是中央做了什麼？衛福部已經委託了健保署建置系統，當時王次長說，如果要調漲掛號費，這個系統建置好的時候不須要回報地方政府，該系統建置好的時候就直接把調整後的費用輸入系統當中，然後你們就會掌握了、就清楚了。請問一下，這個系統到底有沒有在建置？這是當時的王次長回復媒體時說的。"],["石署長崇良：跟委員報告，我們現在在健保快易通上面都有所有診所的資料，裡面現在都建置有掛號費的費用收取情形。"],["林委員淑芬：那你們有沒有強制登載？"],["石署長崇良：我們有統計，登載率大概98%。"],["林委員淑芬：都有登載掛號的費用嗎？"],["石署長崇良：對，掛號的費用。"],["林委員淑芬：你們都有掌握這個價格的趨勢嗎？"],["石署長崇良：我們可以進一步分析，再給委員參考。"],["林委員淑芬：顯然你有掌握嘛！"],["石署長崇良：對。"],["林委員淑芬：那我問你一個，你知道禾馨診所特約門診的掛號費要多少錢嗎？"],["石署長崇良：這個要查一下。"],["林委員淑芬：禾馨診所特約掛號費。"],["石署長崇良：我們現在馬上查。"],["林委員淑芬：好，你查一下。那我再問你，你知道有一個南部的立委跟我說，有一家醫院掛號費6,000元，你有聽過嗎？為什麼，你知道嗎？因為你繳了6,000元可以優先排病床。等不到病床，你繳6,000，就把你priority放到前面。現在這是怎麼樣？你知不知道，你給診所評比五星級，掛號費可以抵50元？你有沒有聽過？你們這樣都不食人間煙火，不接地氣！當時你們醫事司司長劉越萍受訪的時候說，醫療機構不會亂漲價，因為貿然漲太多也會影響病人求診的意願，而且已經要求院所必須明顯標示價格，萬一有聯合漲價的話，會有公平會把關。這樣聯合漲價跟你們都沒關係，業務都讓公平會去辦理。","我現在問你的，你說馬上查。到底禾馨特約門診的掛號費多少錢？查了？上網有這麼慢嗎？我們的AI內閣呢？AI哩！那繳6,000優先排病床，部長、署長，有什麼看法？禾馨的多少錢？"],["邱部長泰源：app有沒有寫到禾馨……"],["林委員淑芬：你們有app，你們健保快易通都有，我就看是真的還是假的！你們這樣拖時間，我質詢的時間很短耶！根本就沒有，不要在這裡鬼扯了，禾馨！那你再查一下，查到告訴我，沒關係，我再問下去。","部長，6,000元的掛號費，優先給你排病床，你作何感想？這是我們南部的立委跟我說的，我不好意思說出哪一個名字，也不好意思說出哪一家醫院，你們要去查出來給我！"],["邱部長泰源：我想今天我們臺灣會有全民健保就是要保護……"],["林委員淑芬：我現在講掛號費，取消掛號費上限是你們做的，不是在講健保！現在講取消掛號費上限，是你們廢止的，現在出現這種亂象，6,000元可以優先排病床，這個作何感想？現在醫療是怎麼樣？有錢的才有辦法優先，沒錢的沒有！"],["邱部長泰源：這個我們來瞭解一下。"],["林委員淑芬：剛才還有立委質詢……"],["邱部長泰源：來瞭解一下。"],["林委員淑芬：瞭解一下？沒有，我是問你作何感想？不是瞭解一下，你作何感想？","剛才還有立委講病床的事情，那我再問一個跟掛號費無關的，是病床的事。我接受陳情了，我好朋友的老婆已經插管了，插管可以不在加護病房裡面，在急診室插管了，還在急診室等病床嗎？你覺得插管的狀態適合在人很多的急診室，像菜市場一樣，在那裡等病床嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：如果需要插管的病人，一般都會移到急診的重症區。"],["林委員淑芬：那都沒有啊！所以拜託立委去關說，已經插管了啊！"],["邱部長泰源：重症區，但是不一定馬上排得到ICU，所以它有分為好幾個等級，但是至少是一個特別的房間來照顧，不太可能在走道邊插管。"],["林委員淑芬：對啦！我跟你講，但是至少他不是在ICU裡面，是在外面特定區域，也是人來人往很多人的地方，不是在走道，但也是在擠來擠去，才會打電話拜託立委幫忙安排病床，他已經插管了，這是我前幾天才遇到的陳情案件耶！","我現在要講，你們取消了這個上限，然後有這麼多的亂象。我們現在資訊要公開透明，政府如果沒有資訊公開透明，地方有很多社群網站，像「我們○○人」、「什麼地方」的社團最常出現的抱怨，你知道如果兩個小孩同時感冒、同時確診，看病1次的掛號費加部分負擔要繳多少錢嗎？家裡如果有兩個小孩都會互相傳染，如果感染、確診，掛號費加部分負擔，去診所看而已，診所會給幾天的藥你知道嗎？診所給我們小孩幾天份量的藥你知道嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：普通都是3天。"],["林委員淑芬：3天，所以3天以後還要再看一次，這樣一個禮拜要看2次。那我問你，如果兩個小孩同時生病，看病1次要花多少錢？現在我們就說接地氣的，一般診所掛號費要多少錢？我覺得你們很好笑，我覺得你們都很不食人間煙火耶！禾馨你們就查不出來，一個禾馨就已經花10分鐘了啦！"],["邱部長泰源：禾馨，上面是寫300元啦！"],["林委員淑芬：我告訴你，公布答案，它的特約門診2,000元，2,000元！你去查。現在兩個小孩看病……"],["邱部長泰源：那是自費體系的……"],["林委員淑芬：兩個小孩看病，掛號再加上部分負擔50元，兩個小孩總共要花750元，1個禮拜要看2次，花1,500元。所以你要知道「我是○○人」的社團有很多人在抱怨。","部長，你們叫我們看健保快易通，可是民眾也自行架設了地圖網頁，以前你們沒有口罩地圖，現在連醫療機構掛號費調漲現況，人家也做了一個地圖網頁，方便更多的民眾去查詢。我們現在講衛福部就是因噎廢食，你把整個掛號費的上限拿掉，當然完全不能調整也是有問題，但是你全部都拿掉，也產生問題了，變成階級性的，階級性的問題就來了，優先給掛號費付6,000的。我們在講，對於定期發布掛號費調漲調查報告的制度面，你們用健保快易通這個系統，健保快易通的介面多難用，你知道嗎？我都還忘記密碼，因為要身分證號碼，還要輸入我的密碼，我都經常忘記。人家民間自行製作的這個地圖通通都有，而且還是根據你們的資料，可是你們的資料庫沒有在更新，因為沒有強制登記，登記的也是假的，像是禾馨，沒有強制登記，登記的也是假的，所以你們可以依據你們的大數據來跟我報告什麼？你依據錯誤的、假的數據來給立法委員報告，這個報告都是失真的啦！失真的啦！好啦！部長，這樣要怎麼辦？"],["邱部長泰源：我想健保快易通上面寫的資料是不會假的，因為它就是健保體系的……"],["林委員淑芬：它就是假的，禾馨的特約門診，它沒進去……"],["邱部長泰源：如果是特約門診或自費系統的，可能就不在這上面登記，所以這個部分可能是比較屬於自費體系……"],["林委員淑芬：現在你不覺得整個公共醫療都要自費系統化了嗎？這才是問題啊！把公共醫療這個餅越做越小，把自費的系統越做越大，這樣排擠了醫護人員，自費系統的服務多好，你知道嗎？現在是要把景福門診全部普遍化，各個醫院都自費化，服務有夠好的，有錢人都得到很好的服務；如果是沒錢的，就要慢慢排，慢慢排，服務有夠差的，而且沒病床、沒護士，還要跟我陳情，插管的還在找立委陳情，這是真正的問題！這個就是真正的問題，癥結就是在這裡，而你們毫無感覺！你們還在講：自費不在我們管轄內。你們把自費做大，把公共醫療做小，這是整個國家醫療體制即將崩壞，公共醫療要崩壞、要瓦解，這才是大問題！有錢的一直都是很好的待遇；沒有錢的就越來越差，排越久、等越久，這樣你們做何感想？"],["邱部長泰源：報告林委員，可以給我回答一下嗎？"],["林委員淑芬：對阿！我要問你作何感想？"],["邱部長泰源：我們可以看全國在公告的醫療收入，幾乎大部分的醫學中心都是負的，如果不是靠美食街跟停車場，恐怕它是沒辦法養這個醫院的教研，即教學、研究，甚至如果要蓋個大樓……"],["林委員淑芬：那跟自費市場做大……"],["邱部長泰源：如果以臺大醫院，它的自費市場就是美食街。"],["林委員淑芬：自費市場不是美食街啦！"],["邱部長泰源：意思是說，像臺大醫院……"],["林委員淑芬：自費市場是再生醫療、細胞治療、健康檢查、景福門診啦！"],["邱部長泰源：以臺大來講，這個部分就相當低啦！"],["林委員淑芬：臺大當然是不典型，你怎麼不去講中醫大？你怎麼不去講那些私立的財團法人醫院，如長庚？正子攝影、細胞治療……"],["邱部長泰源：長庚醫院的醫務收入也是negative啊！對不對？"],["林委員淑芬：negative是一回事啊！那這樣子的話，你的點值就要增加囉？你要講點值喔！"],["邱部長泰源：不是，點值有沒有增加……當然增加成長率比較重要。"],["林委員淑芬：所以你認為他們的掛號費上漲、調漲是應該的囉？你是這個意思嗎？你支持啊？因為它的正規醫療收入都是負的，所以你是要支持掛號費再調漲，然後點值要增加嗎？你是這個意思嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：掛號費……"],["林委員淑芬：你今天扯這個是要讓它再增加嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：掛號費還是有彼此競爭的啦！我們在同一條街上，你如果收貴一點就沒人要去了嘛！所以基本上……"],["林委員淑芬：不要說那些不食人間煙火的話啦！"],["邱部長泰源：所以可能還是會維持到……"],["林委員淑芬：一個禮拜如果兩個小孩生病要看病，要花1,500元，其實對很多人負擔是很重的，而有錢人不會去那裡看啦！有錢人不會這樣看。好啦！我看這個問題越講越悲哀啦！"],["邱部長泰源：其實醫療的成本也相當高啦！所以……"],["林委員淑芬：有錢人的自費醫療，錢花下去，什麼都沒問題，他哪有那個等病床的問題，他哪有那個等檢查要排多久的問題，都是隨到隨做，有錢人的自費醫療都沒問題啦！自費醫療本來就沒問題，服務多好。","我現在再說永豐化學，永豐化學是大財團，不要忘了他們當時被你們吊照停止生產的原因，你還記得嗎？部長？實驗數據造假、主成分有效性不足、內有懸浮污染物，大家今天講什麼時候可以復工、可以恢復生產？然後你們的前署長有預知能力，他說10月前會復工。以永豐化學過去的不良紀錄來看，我們非常不樂見政府首長因為輿論壓力，所以對永豐化學查廠複查放水。而新的署長很聰明，今天剛好交接，不用來，我們也期許他要大破大立，不要讓這種大財團永豐餘集團的永豐化學，當初它敢數據造假，當初它的主成分敢有效性不足，當初它有污染物、懸浮物，不怕病人死，這樣做出來給大家用，市占率可以達到八成，這政府都沒有責任嗎？所以這樣對藥廠的包庇、因循苟且，到現在看到政府處分了，可是民眾要飽受缺藥、使用不良藥品之苦，這樣對嗎？","我6月5號質詢時有問部長，第一點，國內藥品市占率不均；第二點，原料易生短缺的名單和管理的機制是什麼，你們現在有沒有整理了，有沒有管理的辦法出來了？6月5號的質詢，今天是7月1號，將近一個月，你們有在想嗎？你們有要做嗎？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，我們事實上都有一直在盤查相關的名單，目前主要把它列在以國內醫療第一線重要急需，然後許可證……"],["林委員淑芬：我現在沒有在講這個，本來依據藥事法第二十七條之二規範的必要藥品481項清單，你們是到去年為止，有一份清單是去年的。到現在，像第二十七條之二規範的輸液，根本不在這個裡面，我也不跟你談輸液，我要談制度面的管理，所以我在講的兩個要點，部長，6月5號我質詢就講這兩個要點，第一個，它不在第二十七條之二的規範裡面，但是藥品市占率不均或者是原料易生短缺，對於這一些藥品的管理管制方法和手段，你要怎麼管、你要怎麼處理？我當時就問你們，就這兩個要點，市占率不均、使用率又很高的藥廠、藥品有哪些？我6月5號就質詢了，你們回去有沒有清點有哪些？有哪一個藥廠藥品市占率很高、使用率也很高、風險很大的，但不在第二十七條之二裡面的？有哪些？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，我們經過盤點下來，有9家藥廠跟16張許可證。"],["林委員淑芬：9家藥廠、16張許可證，藥品的品名是什麼？"],["王副署長德原：包含\"十全\"服莫喘錠、非尼乙非林點眼液、萬博黴素懸液用粉劑、鈣克康靜脈注射液、\"信東\"舒凱1.47%氯化鈣溶液、\"信東\"連續性血液過濾補充液甲、\"健喬\"雙羥蒽醌注射液2毫克/毫升、扼煞西林注射劑、\"信東\"鏈黴素注射劑1克、賜福樂素口服懸液用顆粒25毫克/毫升、舒德林吸入液2毫克/毫升、力克眼用眼膏、阿雷彼阿慶注射液、\"優良\"優賜定注射液2.5公絲/公撮、\"優良\"優力……"],["林委員淑芬：所以不是9項喔？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，我們講許可證，因為剛剛是有不同……"],["林委員淑芬：好，沒關係，我現在問你，它們市占率有多高？"],["王副署長德原：我們當初在篩的時候都是以市占率超過60%在篩。"],["林委員淑芬：對啊！這些藥都很普遍、很普通，都老藥、都舊藥，聽起來是很常備的，你們盤點這幾個有可能會那個……所以你要去預警，然後發生問題會怎麼樣？","我們現在的意思是說，不可以事後還這樣無動於衷，像是永豐的輸液這件事情看起來就是無動於衷。但是，部長，在6月5號我跟您質詢的時候你有說，因為林次長和醫界比較合，他想要趕快安撫醫界的心，所以都急著發臉書，讓大家知道說要怎麼做，真是用心良苦啊！這是你說的嘛！那我們看一下，的確老實說，人家次長在自己的臉書講的，我在這裡講，他講的都沒錯，5月20號講的，建立關鍵或寡占藥品的安全備援機制，平衡廠商在市場的占比；5月22號講的，對市占不均或原料易生短缺的，要建立預警及輔導平衡機制，他講的都沒錯；5月29號也講，要提出後續檢討機制，盤點高風險的這個問題等等；然後要降低獨占市場斷貨風險和建立調度機制。","部長，如果發臉書比較快，安撫大家的心，講話講的都是正確的，這麼漂亮，用心良苦，那我要問你，這一些你們都開始做了嗎？如果被檢視的時候發現什麼都沒做呢？我問你，他一直在講高風險，你們說得很漂亮，很漂亮的話都很會講，那你先告訴我，你們定義的高風險藥廠是什麼？你們有盤點出哪些藥廠是高風險的嗎？"],["主席：林委員，是不是時間的關係……"],["林委員淑芬：好，我快結束了。次長講這麼多，就是針對高風險的藥廠要盤點，你們盤點出來了沒？標準是什麼？高風險不是隨便講一講喔！"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，我們盤點最主要是要看最近3年內它的GMP違規的狀況，以及產品有沒有不良品回收通報。"],["林委員淑芬：你講得剛剛好，我就講了永豐輸液，他們有嚴重違反GMP的紀錄嗎？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員永豐最近3年的嚴重違反GMP就是今年我們……"],["林委員淑芬：對啊！所以過去3年都沒有，只有這一次，所以你們的高風險指標就以最近3年嚴重違反GMP來講，永豐在這一次以前的過去三年通通都沒有。對啦！所以我們才說，你們講話講得很漂亮，但你們的標準不知道怎麼訂的？檢視的時候，那你們現在要怎麼做？對這些高風險藥廠，你要怎麼做？你現在盤點出來幾家藥廠是高風險的？幾間？我不要問哪一間。"],["王副署長德原：剛剛有跟委員報告，有9間。"],["林委員淑芬：9間高風險的藥廠做市占率超過六成的藥品，你們這樣未來要怎麼管理？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，未來第一個，我們在他的製造許可到期前，原來是6個月以前要提出申請，我們現在要求他在9個月前就要提出申請，讓我們可以……"],["林委員淑芬：這樣就可以降低獨占市場嗎？"],["王副署長德原：另外，我們會更積極……"],["林委員淑芬：其他人沒有在生產的，那何來替代性？"],["王副署長德原：報告委員，替代的部分我們會鼓勵其他的藥廠……"],["林委員淑芬：但如果沒有人要做呢？跟這次一樣沒有人要做呢？這些市占率高的都有一個共同策略喔！當初用低價的策略擴大市場的占有率，成為壟斷或獨占，然後政府就只能隨便他了！他們當初是用這種策略，但是現在因為價格競爭不下去了，其他藥廠都不要，他們的價錢低到這種程度，他再把它的有效性降低，做出劣質藥，但別人不願意做這種藥品啊，不願意跟這種高風險藥廠的人一起競爭啊！所以呢？現在次長在那裡寫臉書很快，講漂亮話、講場面話都很快，用心良苦，我們的內閣被人家嘲笑是外星人內閣，我們的衛福部會不會被人家嘲笑是太空人內閣？","所以現在我們的意思是，引起很大的問題，不管是我剛剛講的掛號費問題或者是……我不是講輸液，我講的是藥品市占不均，原物料易生短缺的藥品名單，還有你管理的這些高風險藥廠，你要管理他的藥廠的時候，你的配套還要進來，你的配套方式是什麼？老實說，這樣聽起來都還是不成熟的喔！"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我想這些提出來的，我們一定努力去把它達到。"],["林委員淑芬：好啦！部長，不要被貼上外星人、太空人這樣的標籤啦，我們想的是要有政府，要會做事，大概就這樣子。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["林委員淑芬：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員，請衛福部針對林委員所提出來的，會後也要給林委員資料。"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。"],["主席：接下來請李彥秀委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":118,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-23","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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你說到底核心特約門診掛號費多少錢查了"},{"start":220.464,"end":234.955,"text":"上網有這麼慢嗎?我們的AI內閣捏AI捏阿那優先排病床繳六千部長?署長有什麼看法?合心多少集?你有APP阿,你健保課一通通有阿,我就看是真要趕的"},{"start":247.742,"end":250.663,"text":"哎呀,你要拖時間,我這幾天的時間很懶根本就沒有,不要在這裡鬼扯了核心,然後你再查一下,查到告訴我,沒關係我再問下去部長,六千塊的寡貨費,人家優先給你排病床,你作何感想?這我們的立委喔,會講的立委跟我說的,我不好意思說出哪個名字"},{"start":275.305,"end":296.421,"text":"也不好意思說出哪一家醫院,你怎麼去查給我阿?我想健保齁,是要我們今天台灣會全民健保就是要保護我現在講掛號費勒,取消掛號費上限是你們做的不是在講健保,現在講取消掛號費上限是你們廢止的阿現在出現這種亂象"},{"start":302.536,"end":321.63,"text":"6千元可以優先排病床這個作何感想啊醫療現在是怎樣?有錢可以幫我優先?不然錢沒有?這個我們 剛才還理會在質詢 了解一下沒有我是問你作何感想啊不是了解一下作何感想"},{"start":326.304,"end":341.355,"text":"我接受陳情,我的好朋友的老婆已經插管了,插管可以不在家戶病房裡面,可以在急診室插管,還在急診室排病床嗎?"},{"start":342.813,"end":366.547,"text":"你覺得插管的狀態適合在人很多的急診室那蔡奇亞都要單北層嗎一般如果需要插管的病人一般都會移到急診的重症區那都沒有啊所以叫你去觀索啊已經插管啊重症區但是可能不一定馬上排得到ICU所以它有分為好幾個等級但是至少是一個特別的"},{"start":367.447,"end":387.438,"text":"哎喲,我現在...不太可能在路邊,就是說那個走道邊在插管啊對啦,所以我跟你講說,但是至少他不是在ICU裡面,也是在外面特定區域然後也是一個人來人很多人的地方啦,不是在走道,但也是在擠來擠去才會卡到的,叫你去衛工,你幫我安排賠償一個,已經插管了我這個白癡幾天,都遇到的陳情案件耶"},{"start":396.308,"end":422.334,"text":"好那我現在要講就是說你們取消這個上線然後有這麼多的亂象這麼多的亂象然後呢我們現在資訊公開透明健護勞保公開透明我們都有很多這個社群網站我們什麼人什麼地方的社團很多最常出現的抱怨你知道"},{"start":422.754,"end":430.596,"text":"如果兩個小孩同時感冒同時確診,一次掛號費加部分負擔,要繳多少錢嗎?除了兩個小孩就稍微啊,如果感染確診啊,掛號費加部分負擔,去申訴看而已啊,申訴拿藥物幾天你知不知道?申訴給我們小孩藥物幾天的份量你知道嗎?"},{"start":447.182,"end":456.784,"text":"沙崗嗎?沙崗,所以沙崗你要再看一次,這樣一星期要看兩次那我問你,他一次,如果兩個小孩同時生病要花多少錢?現在啦,我們就說接地氣的一般診所掛號費多少錢?唉唷,我覺得你很好笑,我覺得你都很不食人間煙火耶核心你就炒不出來,一個核心你已經十分精了啦"},{"start":477.912,"end":478.574,"text":"我告訴你他的特約門診公佈答案兩千塊"},{"start":486.761,"end":488.202,"text":"所以你知道我是什麼人我是什麼人的社團當然很多人在抱怨"},{"start":510.422,"end":519.404,"text":"所以這個部長你們說叫我們看健保快易通可是呢人家民眾也自行架設了這個地圖網頁以前我們有口罩地圖現在有連那個醫療機構掛號費調漲現況人家也做了一個地圖網頁方便更多的民眾去查詢所以我們在講說衛福部現在你們"},{"start":538.707,"end":551.972,"text":"你們就是因約廢時,你把整個掛號費的上限拿掉,當然有問題,沒有完全不能調整也是有問題但是呢,你全部都拿掉,也產生問題來了,變成階級性的啦,階級性問題的來啊,優先給掛號費付6000的"},{"start":559.674,"end":564.195,"text":"所以我們在想說,你們對定期發布公告費調查調查報告的制度面,你們這個系統,你用健保快移通,健保快移通介面兩派用,你知道嗎?我還要忘記我的密碼,還有身份證號碼要輸入我的密碼,我都還經常忘記"},{"start":577.819,"end":589.483,"text":"人家民間啊這個自行的作業的地圖通通都來了而且還是根據你們的資料可是你們資料庫沒有在更新因為沒有強制登記登記的也是假的剛剛核心欸沒有強制登記登記的也是假的所以你們可以依據你的大數據來跟我報告什麼你依據錯誤的假的數據來給立法委員報告這個報告都是失真的啦"},{"start":607.995,"end":610.605,"text":"有關健保合理支付、保障醫護人員收入及健康投資等事項"},{"start":614.062,"end":615.943,"text":"現在你不覺得整個公共醫療都要自費系統化了嗎 這才是問題啊"},{"start":638.397,"end":642.799,"text":"把公共醫療這個餅越做越小,把自費的系統越做越大,真的排擠了醫護人員喔,自費系統的好不好,你知不知道,你現在是要把警服門診全部普遍化,各個醫院都自費化,好不好,有夠好的,有技能,對著就很好好不好。"},{"start":663.726,"end":668.389,"text":"如果沒有錢就慢慢來擺擺,慢慢來擺好不夠賣,又健保秘書、保護書,又就要申請,插管了還在找立委申請這是真正的問題,這個真正的問題癥結就是在這裡而你們沒有感覺,你們還在講說還自費,不在我們的管轄,你們把自費做大,把公共醫療做小"},{"start":692.592,"end":695.073,"text":"這是整個國家醫療體制即將崩壞公共醫療要崩壞、要瓦解這才是大問題有錢一直就是很好的待遇沒錢你就越來越壞、白越久、單越久"},{"start":711.894,"end":716.056,"text":"我們可以看整個全國在公報的醫療收入幾乎大部分的醫學中心都是負的"},{"start":728.422,"end":751.48,"text":"如果不是靠那個美食街跟那個停車場,恐怕他是沒辦法養他這個醫院的教研、教學研究,或者甚至如果要蓋個大樓﹖那跟自費市場做大工﹖所以變成這個,如果以臺大醫院的自費市場就是那個美食街﹖自費市場不是美食街啊﹖"},{"start":752.321,"end":754.402,"text":"臺大當然是不典型你怎麼不去講說這個中醫大你怎麼不去講那些私立的這些財團法人醫院長庚政治社營對不對細胞治療細胞治療"},{"start":782.561,"end":784.104,"text":"那這樣的話你點值就要增加囉 你在講點值喔所以你是不認為他們的那個掛號費上漲調漲是應該的囉"},{"start":796.075,"end":813.832,"text":"你是這個意思嗎?你支持他,因為他的正規醫療的收入都是負的,所以你是要支持掛號費再調漲,然後點值要增加嗎?你是這個意思嗎?你今天扯這個是要讓他再增加嗎?掛號費還是有彼此競爭的啦,不可能說我們同一條街上,你如果是我整個就沒人要去了嘛,所以"},{"start":818.837,"end":831.1,"text":"林淑芬說的不使人間營火的話,一星期兩個孩子生病要看病情五考,其實對很多人負擔是很重的,真的"},{"start":832.142,"end":835.245,"text":"但對有錢人來不會去那裡看啦有錢人不會這樣看好啦我看喔其實醫療的成本喔醫療的成本也相當高啦有錢人的這個自費醫療喔一開下去什麼都沒問題他們有那個單秘藏的問題他們有那個單檢測的百惡苦的問題都衰去衰走"},{"start":854.506,"end":858.511,"text":"有錢人的自費醫療都沒問題啦自費醫療本來就沒問題服務多好我現在再說永豐化學啦永豐化學大財團不要忘了他們當時被你們調造停止生產的原因你還記得嗎部長"},{"start":872.66,"end":883.025,"text":"實驗數據造假 組成費有效性不足 內有汙染物 懸浮汙染物大家今天講說什麼時候可以復工 可以恢復生產然後你們的前署長 有預知這個能力他說10月前會復工 以過去永豐化學過去的不良紀錄來看我們非常不樂見政府所長 因為輿論壓力所以對永豐化學查場複查放水"},{"start":901.954,"end":904.457,"text":"而新的署長今天你很聰明地說要高職都不用來我們也期許他要大破大立不要讓這種大財團永豐於集團的永豐化學當初一家數據造假"},{"start":918.294,"end":923.018,"text":"他當初組成份感給他有效性不足,當初他有汙染物、懸浮物、不怕病人死,這樣做出來大家用市佔率可以達到八成,這政府都沒接人嘛,所以在用對藥廠的包庇,"},{"start":935.387,"end":943.472,"text":"因尋苟且,到現在看到政府處分了,可是民眾要飽受缺藥,使用不良藥品之苦。"},{"start":966.767,"end":985.172,"text":"6月5號質詢,今天是7月1號,獎金1個月,你們有在想嗎?你們有要做嗎?報告委員,我們事實上都有一直在盤查相關的名單,那目前主要是反而列在這個以國內重要醫療第一線重要急需,然後許可證我現在沒有在講這個,本來"},{"start":986.872,"end":990.436,"text":"依據藥事法第27條之二的規範的必要藥品481項清單你們是到去年為止有一份清單是去年的到現在像要27條之二規範的書意根本不在這個裡面"},{"start":1006.815,"end":1032.292,"text":"我也不跟你談輸液怎麼樣談我要談制度面的管理所以我在講的兩個要點保定625號我質詢就講這兩個要點第一個它不在27條之2的規範裡面但是藥品市佔率不均或者是原料益生短缺那這一些藥品的管理管制方法和手段你要怎麼管那你要怎麼處理"},{"start":1033.453,"end":1033.953,"text":"報告委員我們經過這樣盤點下來有9家藥廠跟16張許可證"},{"start":1063.605,"end":1067.986,"text":"9家藥廠16張許可證是什麼藥品的品?包含石泉浮沫傳定、非泥已飛零點研議、萬柏梅樹懸疑用粉劑"},{"start":1086.696,"end":1102.304,"text":"約克康靜脈注射液信東舒凱1.47%氯化鈣溶液連續性血液過濾補充液甲信東劍橋雙氰昆皮注射液二毫克毫升二薩西磷注射劑"},{"start":1105.123,"end":1132.177,"text":"信東煉霉酥注射劑1克赤芙勒素口服旋翼用顆粒25毫克毫升蘇德林西入役2毫克毫升立刻眼用眼膏阿雷匹阿沁注射液優良優次定注射液2.5公司公錯所以不是9項喔報告委員我們講徐國泰因為他剛剛是有不同劑好沒關係那我現在問你他們市佔率有多高"},{"start":1133.305,"end":1142.688,"text":"我們在當初篩的時候都是以市佔率超過60%在篩對啊這些藥都很普遍很普通都老藥都舊藥聽起來是很長輩的人所以你們盤點這幾個有可能會那個所以你要去預警然後發生問題會怎麼樣那我們現在的意思是說"},{"start":1155.012,"end":1158.873,"text":"不可以事後還這樣無動於衷若是書意的事用風這件事看起來就是無動於衷但是保證你在6月5日我給你質詢的時候你有說因為林次長和醫界比較合"},{"start":1171.957,"end":1188.431,"text":"他想要趕快安撫醫界的心啊,所以都急著發臉書啦,讓大家知道說要怎麼做,真是用心良苦啊,這是你說的嘛。那我們看一下啦,他的確老實說,人家次長在自己的臉書講的,我在這裡講,他講的都沒錯。"},{"start":1190.453,"end":1193.776,"text":"5月20講的建立關鍵和寡占藥品的安全備援機制平衡廠商在市場的占比5月22講的要建立預警和輔導平衡機制對市占部軍會原料醫生短缺的他講的都沒錯"},{"start":1207.349,"end":1235.111,"text":"5月29也講要提出後續的檢討機制盤點高風險的這個問題等等然後要降低獨佔市場斷貨風險和建立調度的機制如果發臉書比較快那安撫大家的心講話講的都是正確這麼漂亮用心良苦那我要問你這些你們都開始做了嗎"},{"start":1237.162,"end":1240.305,"text":"如果被檢視的時候,什麼都沒做呢?那我問你,這個高風險,他一直在講高風險,你們的定義裡面,講得很漂亮很漂亮的話都很會講,那你先告訴我你們定義的高風險藥品是什麼?高風險藥廠啦,有高風險的定義是什麼?你們有盤點出哪些藥廠是高風險的嗎?"},{"start":1261.311,"end":1265.652,"text":"報告委員我們盤點最主要是要看最近3年內他的GMP違規的狀況以及產品有沒有不良品回收通報"},{"start":1283.437,"end":1290.102,"text":"你講的剛剛好捏我就講了永豐永豐他們有嚴重違反GMP的記錄嗎永豐書意報告委員永豐最近三年的話他的嚴重違反GMP就是今年我們喝對啊所以過去三年都沒有欸只有這一次欸所以你們高風險指標就以高風險指標為這最近三年嚴重違反GMP來講永豐在這一次以前的過去三年通通都沒有"},{"start":1314.252,"end":1340.926,"text":"對啦!對啦!所以我們今天講說講話講得很漂亮你們這個標準不知道怎麼定那檢視的時候那你們現在怎麼做怎麼做這對這些高風險藥廠你要怎麼做你現在盤點出來幾家藥廠是高風險的有請!幾間啦!我不要問到一間啦!報告剛跟委員有報告有九間九間高風險的藥廠這一宗市佔率超過六成的有聘阿你這樣未來要怎麼管理?要怎麼樣?"},{"start":1342.895,"end":1358.682,"text":"報告委員未來第一個我們在他就是在他的這個製造許可到期前原來是6個月以前要提出申請我們現在要求他在9個月前就要提出申請這樣就可以降低獨佔市場另外我們會更其他人沒有在生產的那替代性怎麼來報告委員那個替代的部分我們會鼓勵其他的藥廠"},{"start":1364.228,"end":1390.565,"text":"沒有人要做了跟這次一樣沒有人要做了若是市佔率高的都有一個共同策略當初用低價的策略擴大市場的佔有率然後成為壟斷或獨佔然後政府就要記載它當初是用這種策略但是現在因為這價格這樣競爭競爭未果其他業區都沒了你們在介紹給到這種人他才把他的有效性降低做出劣質藥"},{"start":1391.886,"end":1397.61,"text":"但人無關意做這種有聘啊：所以跟這種高風險藥材的人無關意一樣的競爭啊：所以呢,現在次長在那裡,寫臉書很快、講漂亮話、講場面話都很快,用心良苦："},{"start":1407.336,"end":1412.399,"text":"我們的內閣被人家嘲笑是外星人內閣我們衛福部會不會被人家嘲笑是太空人內閣所以現在我們的意思是說引起這個很大的問題不管是我剛剛講了掛號費的問題或者是這個書我不是講書意我講的是藥品市占不均原物料一生短缺的藥品名單還有你管理這些高風險藥廠"},{"start":1436.374,"end":1436.574,"text":"好啦 保證就是說齁"},{"start":1456.547,"end":1456.587,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}