{"error":false,"id":["154424"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154424,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154424","日期":"2024-07-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-02T10:06:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-02T10:22:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a15473f572955ee593b8f2c12d918673f79f1a10a312273395242d6c0f0b264154b055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:06:10 - 10:22:02","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":294,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時6分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長及官員，大家早。有請卓院長和經濟部郭部長、農業部陳部長。"],["主席：卓院長、陳部長還有郭部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長好、兩位部長好。院長，昨天我們共同出席了中央通訊社100週年的慶祝活動，對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我很欣賞你最後結尾的那句話，你說大家都慶祝中央社100歲生日快樂，你說你希望能跟它講100次的生日快樂，這意味著中央通訊社還要再經營100年以上，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我是說100聲，我沒有辦法講100次。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你還要再活100歲啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是100聲啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：我也學到了，以後在我跟我老婆的結婚週年紀念日，我會跟她說：老婆，我希望再跟你講100次的結婚週年快樂。"],["卓院長榮泰：千萬不要，這代表年齡。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，其實我在昨天中央通訊社的社慶聽了，到底通訊社相較於新聞業是什麼呢？我倒覺得它有一點像台積電，它本身沒有媒體，但是它透過供應給各個新聞媒體把它的正確新聞傳播出去，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我也覺得未來中央通訊社的使命就像那位印度通訊社的代表所說的，他們發現自己的顧客變成自己的競爭者，他們也要開始有自己的平臺，但是有一件事情可以請你期許中央通訊社去做的，就是對於訊息、新聞求真的判別，如果中央通訊社能夠幫忙對每一則新聞把關，務求新聞的真，我想它對它其他的客戶就有價值，你同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，所以它要正確、領先、客觀。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。好，那接下來我們進入今天的主題，大家都關心總統成立了三個委員會，其中一個是國家氣候變遷委員會，很多人都關心這跟行政院的職責會不會有衝突，您覺得呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：氣候變遷是國家一個很高的戰略目標跟計畫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以行政院要負責解決問題的具體方法，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：同時在總統府成立的委員會當中，它沒有組織、沒有人事、沒有預算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是諮詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：它是諮詢、政策的討論。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以真正的執行是行政院要負責？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，而且還要經過政策、跟行政院還要對接政策。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，關於氣候變遷，大家認為是工業製造造成了大氣環境的變化，那受害者是誰呢？你覺得第一個受害的是誰？我告訴你，第一個受害的不是工業而是農業，陳部長，今年因為氣候變遷造成全臺灣的農損，包括屏東的芒果、蓮霧都是。有這麼多的農損，我來請教陳部長，農民很可憐啊！如果是農損欠收、不敷成本，我們農業部會做什麼？災害救助嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有一個天然災害救助的辦法。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也會推廣農業保險嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是院長，如果我們風調雨順、國泰民安，農民也在擔心，因為豐收會怎麼樣？會敗市啊！農產品不耐久放，所以量多價崩，怎麼辦？農業部，你們是不是鼓勵做加工？"],["陳部長駿季：我們除了做加工以外，我們也會建置一個相關的滾動式倉儲、冷鏈倉儲的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，就是延長豐收農產品的保存嘛！但是院長，我要跟你講，農業部做了這麼多，可是農民會感謝嗎？因為鼓勵將農產品做初級加工，讓它可以保存久一點，是誰得到補貼？是加工業者，但是加工業者把檸檬做成果汁之後，可以放得比較久，不過農民也擔心你都是補助加工廠，他們在外面進口果汁，摻在這些本土的檸檬汁裡面，消費者分不出來，很可惜啦！所以我覺得院長，你可以再請農業部考慮一個，他們在做的是什麼？除了鼓勵加工之外就是冷鏈，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，那你們做了多少？目前農業部在冷鏈的推動做了哪些？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在在冷鏈的部分大概分三個區塊，一個區塊是區域冷鏈物流中心，它是結合附近的；第二個就是一個旗艦的部分，旗艦的部分主要是以外銷為導向。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，說得好。院長，你聽喔，你看這張圖，其實農產地到集貨場，大概農會跟生產班是在前端，而後端有外銷的貿易商、有果菜公司，目前中間有大型通路跟盤商，盤商大概有自己私人的冷鏈，目前政府投資的大概可以讓大型的通路商做外銷，放在機場附近，部長是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是這樣的一個投資受益者是後端，農民的價格在前端，因為它還沒有經過冷鏈，不耐久存，它的價格還是抬不起來，所以這是目前我們的冷鏈投資在方向上要思考的一個點。同時，另外一件事情很像，在你旁邊的郭部長，我跟郭部長請教一下，我看到報紙說，未來好像今年開始，屋頂型光電的貢獻慢慢已經接近甚至超越地面型光電，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：目前的資料是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以屋頂型光電有什麼好處呢？院長，屋頂型光電在人口密集區，它用的電馬上可以上調，它不用饋線，但是地面型的光電大部分是在鄉間，部長，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以配合鄉間的光電，用量少的地區，這些發的電要怎麼辦？是不是要用儲能儲起來？"],["郭部長智輝：沒錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要用儲能，光電要配合儲能才會產生韌性電網，調節供電的效果。但這裡面有個問題就是饋線，我們廣大鄉間的光電需要饋線放在儲能，儲能才能輸送到電網，是不是這樣子？好，那我們來看一下，部長，請你告訴院長，目前儲能設施的裝置容量是不是已經跟我們的光電裝置差不多了？"],["郭部長智輝：目前差不多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：差不多。但是大部分分布在哪裡？分布在光電集中的鄉間嗎？還是集中在工業比較集中的地帶？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是工業區。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。院長，這就是問題了，產電的在鄉間，儲能的放在哪裡？工業用電那裡。你現在看看為什麼會這樣子，因為經濟部的相關規定、產業園區的各種使用規範、科技園區的管制條例，光電的儲能，儲能要放在工業區，部長，是不是這樣子？"],["郭部長智輝：目前的規範是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：鄉間有沒有工業用地？"],["卓院長榮泰：少。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很少。郭部長來自於我們枋寮，枋寮唯一的工業區是在北旗尾、在東海那邊，超過那個地方有工業區嗎？有沒有地方可以放儲能？所以在這裡給院長跟部長一個建議，如果儲能結合了充電跟冷鏈，其實在我們鄉間最怕停電的有兩個，一個是加工的冷鏈，一個是養殖業的泵浦，不能停電，但是如果儲能放在鄉間有沒有幫助？院長，你覺得有沒有幫助？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個很好的思考跟檢討的方向。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，所以怎麼辦？解答在你右手邊的那一位──農業部。請部長告訴一下我們農業部，如果儲能業者可以同時提供冷鏈，農業部把它認定為農業設施，這個儲能就可以放在農業用地上、放在集貨場上，為什麼我們的冷鏈不會在前端呢？因為集貨場都是農會跟小農，都是生產班，沒有資本，他們也沒辦法投資，靠你的補助無法成事，如果儲能業者願意，因為可以取得用地，然後投資到我們生產班、集貨場那邊，這樣是不是可以解決兩邊的問題？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，我想這一部分我會跟農業部來討論，實際回屏東去看一下，如果有辦法的話，我們就依委員所提議的部分、這個方向來努力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長，請你指示農業部研議把儲能結合冷鏈後可以納入農業設施，部長，可不可以？"],["陳部長駿季：我想絕對可以，我們現在有一部分已經開始這樣做了，特別是有一些像菇舍，上面的屋頂是太陽能板。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是屋頂型光電。"],["陳部長駿季：對，它直接會供應它本身的一個用電。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是要儲能。"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以相對的，有關於農業設施，現在大概有將近兩千四百多公頃的屋頂型的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是屋頂型的。"],["陳部長駿季：我們在鄉村會結合儲能設備，然後直接供給我們的農業用電。"],["鍾委員佳濱：大部分的地面型光電……鄉下不是屋頂型啦！是地面型啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果能把這些地面型的光電放到集貨場，提供冷鏈也兼作儲能，對農民幫助很大，院長願不願意支持請兩位部長共同研議？好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，我請兩位部長積極來看如何幫助讓這些產生出來的電力能夠存留下來，供做有需要時使用，至於農地的使用是不是有必要做一些放寬或怎麼樣，這個請農業部再來仔細研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，部長可以考慮嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：可以，我們會來研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：郭部長，你也可以鼓勵儲能業者在我們鄉間的這些冷鏈集貨場的農會生產班投資儲能設施，算他們便宜一點，因為對台電的儲能部分，你們就可以賺錢了，冷鏈是做服務的，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好，瞭解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，可以。另外，請問院長知道嗎？我們每個地方都說歡迎台積電，但台積電要用電，要不要用水？"],["卓院長榮泰：要。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要用水，所以半導體產業不只怕缺電，也怕缺水，但有沒有雨水我們沒辦法決定，這是由老天爺決定，是不是這樣？所以如果雨量少，家庭怕缺水、農民擔心沒有辦法灌溉、工廠怕停產，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你認為目前我們臺灣的降水、降雨，包括工業部門、家庭部門跟農業部門，哪個部門用的最多？"],["卓院長榮泰：工業跟農業啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，我給你看數據，農業用水占七成，民生用水占兩成，而工業只占一成，所以當老天爺給我們這麼多水的時候，七成是農業使用，兩成家庭使用，一成是工業用，你認為要從哪裡把水儲存起來使用，其投資效益最高？郭部長，如果你是企業家，用水分配是這樣，你投資在哪裡最能達到成長效果？邊際效益最高？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在當然是從農業用水的部分來增加它的效益……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們是調度喔！要停耕、休耕，然後把水拿過來。"],["郭部長智輝：也不是這樣子，其實在農地用水的這部分，我們有在加強，我們台水、水利署大概有做這方面的研究。"],["鍾委員佳濱：水利署是全部水資源的調度。農業部陳部長，你看一看，你們農業用水有七成，其實是用了很多量，但多數不是農民用掉的，因為你們上游的集水設施不足，中游的輸水管路老舊，到最後最末端的使用效能，就是「噴鳥噴嘴」等節水設施要加強，農業部有沒有積極投資這一塊？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，農業部針對如何有效率用水，針對坡地部分，我們會擴大相關埤塘跟蓄水設施……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，你們提供很多嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：然後在平地的部分……"],["鍾委員佳濱：平地，灌排……"],["陳部長駿季：很多灌溉渠道滲漏的部分，我們也會去加強……"],["鍾委員佳濱：改善。"],["陳部長駿季：讓它的使用效率更高，然後針對一些用水比較高的部分，我們會導入一些比較……"],["鍾委員佳濱：節水設施？"],["陳部長駿季：節水設施，還有節水的栽培方式。"],["鍾委員佳濱：卓院長，我來自農業縣，你知道嗎？過去這三、四十年，日治時代留下來的灌排，其實農民已經不太用了，為什麼，你知道嗎？為什麼農民不等水利會的灌排？因為現在用電很方便，他自己鑿井，接上馬達，然後有電就可以抽水，但這樣做有一點可惜，因為地下水非常純淨、珍貴，地下水抽出來灌溉，有一半以上會蒸發，很可惜！還要吃電，吃電也是耗能，所以最快的方法就是灌溉設備的提升和修復，讓農民不用自己去鑿井、挖井，裝馬達用電抽水，然後又讓大部分的水都蒸發掉，你同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，很好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們要投資在哪裡呢？投資在我們的灌排和蓄水設施，這樣的方式可以透過交通設施，今天交通部不在，其實交通部的生活圈道路計畫提供了很多經費，如果這些道路經費可以結合我們的農田水利設施，就是在道路邊做排水道，而排水道邊就是農田，可以把農田的排水透過道路設施一起施作，讓農業部的資源專心用於灌溉，這樣就一舉兩得，院長，可不可以考慮這樣做？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員這個意見，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我要提醒你，真正我們的灌排做了多少？陳部長，這是不是你113年度有關農田水利設施改善所投資的錢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想整個投資不只這樣，因為還有一些疫後的特別預算投入，所以平均整個農田……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，疫後的特別預算，包括前瞻都已經快結束了，院長，我要提醒你，農業用這麼多水，而你投資這麼少的錢，很可惜啦！我再請你往下看，除了農業用水之外，我們的自來水，你認為全臺灣自來水普及率大概多少？部長要不要告訴院長，全臺灣自來水的普及率？"],["郭部長智輝：百分之六十幾。"],["鍾委員佳濱：92%，六十幾是屏東啦！你是屏東人，屏東是69%，全國平均94%，我們在自來水未普及地區投入多少經費，你知道嗎？我們投入這些啦，111年投入20億，越來越少，當然隨著普及率提高，我們需要的經費較少，但是最大的問題出在哪裡？為什麼我們自來水在屏東跟南投普及率還不夠？因為水公司的執行能量有限，錢要多編啦！院長，可不可以指示經濟部加強水公司在自來水普及計畫投入人力跟經費？可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：無自來水地區的供水，今年屏東應該還會有10億左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：10億喔？"],["卓院長榮泰：今年。"],["鍾委員佳濱：今年喔？沒有那麼多啦，因為水公司只做不到20億，水公司的能量，你給它那麼多錢，因為缺工做不來，人不夠，部長有辦法加強嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在不是錢的問題，而是人的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，所以部長、院長可不可以支持一下？讓經濟部加強無自來水地區普及的經費跟人力，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個在總經費160億當中，我們就逐年有做分配。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那希望多增加。"],["卓院長榮泰：像麟洛、長治等地區今年應該會改善。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，沒錯，麟洛跟長治，你講到重點了。最後我們看一下，其實你看看我們工業用水投資多少海淡廠？部長，你告訴院長，我們一個海淡廠要花多少錢？工業用的海水淡化廠，數十億起跳嘛！用10億做單位嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長，你看到沒有？工業用水的海淡廠絕對不虞匱乏，我們投資上百億，但是農業部門的灌排，水公司需要再加強自來水延管的普及。我的結論就兩個：請院長指示提高自來水延管工程預算及提高施作效能，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，已經照計畫在做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那也請提高農水設施的預算分配比例及修護，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝院長及兩位部長。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請鄭正鈐委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅明才","張智倫","涂權吉","沈發惠","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","謝龍介","謝衣鳯","林德福","吳秉叡","黃珊珊","丁學忠","呂玉玲","張宏陸","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","許智傑","林倩綺","葉元之"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00004","1136401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1136401_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.56096875,"end":11.219093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.590343750000002,"end":18.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.340343750000002,"end":22.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.980968750000002,"end":24.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.735343750000002,"end":29.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.102218750000002,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.625343750000003,"end":31.300343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.58284375,"end":37.409093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.35846875,"end":37.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.033468750000004,"end":38.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.42159375,"end":40.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.93596875,"end":42.657218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.876593750000005,"end":45.306593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.64409375,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.40346875,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.96409375,"end":52.697843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.406593750000006,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.90409375,"end":66.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.11346875000001,"end":66.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.97409375000001,"end":67.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.80096875000001,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.17971875,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.45784375000001,"end":77.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.12846875000001,"end":83.17409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.81534375000001,"end":85.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.32971875000001,"end":89.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.63721875,"end":91.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.66221875000001,"end":93.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.75471875000001,"end":94.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.05846875,"end":95.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.79659375,"end":96.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.97784375,"end":99.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.47534375000001,"end":103.62659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.06534375000001,"end":109.14471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.31346875000001,"end":112.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.89096875000001,"end":113.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.12721875000001,"end":114.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.71346875,"end":118.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.29096875,"end":126.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.93096875,"end":127.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.87596875000001,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.59721875,"end":130.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.94721875000002,"end":132.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.78659375,"end":145.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.84909375,"end":138.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.23659375,"end":142.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.09284375000001,"end":144.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.42596875,"end":150.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.46784375000001,"end":147.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.10034375,"end":150.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.55159375000002,"end":154.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.97721875000002,"end":156.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.68159375000002,"end":159.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.60096875000002,"end":162.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.07721875000001,"end":163.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.20784375000002,"end":165.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.11471875,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.45596875,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.59034375000002,"end":174.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.07534375,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.40846875,"end":182.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.90534375000001,"end":183.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.08659375000002,"end":186.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.72346875000002,"end":187.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.88346875000002,"end":188.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.54159375,"end":189.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.52034375000002,"end":192.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.30034375000002,"end":193.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.00909375,"end":196.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.60784375,"end":199.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.67909375000002,"end":200.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.74221875,"end":201.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.33284375000002,"end":202.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.64471875,"end":209.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.63971875000001,"end":209.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.63534375,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.65221875,"end":209.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.70659375000002,"end":216.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.11096875,"end":221.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.19471875000002,"end":222.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.79784375000003,"end":223.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.28284375,"end":227.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.24846875,"end":230.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.21846875000003,"end":238.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.52534375000002,"end":239.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.57159375,"end":242.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.98034375,"end":245.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.79846875,"end":246.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.30471875,"end":247.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.17346875,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.24909375000001,"end":251.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.40096875,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.41784375,"end":257.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.66159375,"end":263.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.81346875,"end":257.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.17596875000004,"end":260.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.25159375000004,"end":263.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.02784375000005,"end":263.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.04471875,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.43284375,"end":263.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.97284375000004,"end":264.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.78284375000004,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.09909375,"end":269.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.35159375,"end":297.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.48659375,"end":300.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.72659375,"end":302.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.20721875000004,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.31659375000004,"end":306.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.95346875,"end":309.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.77159375,"end":312.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.29846875000004,"end":316.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.58909375,"end":318.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.58034375,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.16221875,"end":322.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.01846875,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.10284375000003,"end":324.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.80721875,"end":326.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.44409375000004,"end":329.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.92034375000003,"end":336.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.66596875000005,"end":338.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.13846875,"end":345.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.83346875,"end":348.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.17471875,"end":353.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.15284375000005,"end":356.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.63346875,"end":361.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.48909375,"end":363.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.55221875,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.79659375,"end":370.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.42034375000003,"end":371.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.36534375,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.27659375,"end":373.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.72784375000003,"end":375.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.46596875,"end":376.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.01846875,"end":378.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.57096875,"end":381.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.76034375,"end":383.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.44784375,"end":384.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.65846875,"end":387.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.78471875,"end":389.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.65346875,"end":391.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.86846875000003,"end":391.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.88534375,"end":393.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.09596875,"end":394.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.31096875000003,"end":396.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.25159375000004,"end":399.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.54221875,"end":402.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.46159375,"end":404.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.68909375000004,"end":408.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.64221875000004,"end":411.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.45596875,"end":415.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.89846875,"end":417.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.63659375000003,"end":418.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.12159375000005,"end":420.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.33659375,"end":421.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.63596875,"end":424.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.19659375000003,"end":425.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.49596875000003,"end":428.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.95971875000004,"end":433.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.85346875000005,"end":434.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.66346875000005,"end":435.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.54096875000005,"end":437.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.63346875,"end":442.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.51034375,"end":444.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.26096875,"end":449.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.32784375000006,"end":452.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.51721875000004,"end":463.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.21159375,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.14784375000005,"end":469.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.55659375000005,"end":477.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.76221875000005,"end":483.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.51659375,"end":489.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.08096875,"end":501.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.28346875000005,"end":491.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.56534375,"end":495.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.11784375,"end":497.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.03284375000004,"end":501.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.85971875,"end":516.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.97659375,"end":510.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.40596875,"end":516.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.96284375,"end":520.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.6753437500001,"end":522.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.58221875,"end":530.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.01971875,"end":543.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.1697187500001,"end":543.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.23721875,"end":544.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.24971875,"end":545.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.3803437500001,"end":545.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.46471875,"end":545.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.49846875,"end":554.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.9484687500001,"end":559.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.6228437500001,"end":560.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.53409375,"end":564.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.63471875,"end":567.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.29659375,"end":570.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.6928437500001,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.1147187500001,"end":571.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.0090937500001,"end":574.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.7934687500001,"end":577.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.54409375,"end":579.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.5478437500001,"end":582.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.43784375,"end":583.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.27721875,"end":585.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.0659687500001,"end":587.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.10784375,"end":590.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.3015937499999,"end":593.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.87909375,"end":594.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.14471875,"end":595.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.25846875,"end":598.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.5659687500001,"end":600.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.30846875,"end":600.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.62909375,"end":601.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.16471875,"end":603.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.97034375,"end":605.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.6240937499999,"end":607.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.08784375,"end":612.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.96471875,"end":615.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.05284375,"end":627.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.8147187500001,"end":631.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.3584687499999,"end":633.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.4597187500001,"end":632.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.97846875,"end":633.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.67034375,"end":633.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.7378437500001,"end":633.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.7547187499999,"end":633.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.82221875,"end":635.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.30721875,"end":642.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.5634687500001,"end":645.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.8247187500001,"end":647.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.0815937500001,"end":648.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.4653437500001,"end":653.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.2790937500001,"end":668.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.1965937500001,"end":668.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.53409375,"end":694.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.97596875,"end":677.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.9797187500001,"end":679.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.19471875,"end":680.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.45596875,"end":682.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.99596875,"end":683.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.74159375,"end":691.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.1840937500001,"end":694.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.53409375,"end":696.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.0190937500001,"end":706.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.32971875,"end":709.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.62471875,"end":711.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0715937500001,"end":712.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.21909375,"end":714.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.3959687500001,"end":718.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":718.2309687500001,"end":722.3484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.6015937500001,"end":724.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.04846875,"end":727.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.3772187500001,"end":728.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.2378437500001,"end":729.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.0434687500001,"end":741.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.68721875,"end":742.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.5478437500001,"end":751.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.47471875,"end":756.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.97596875,"end":762.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.5109687500001,"end":764.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.12659375,"end":766.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.1515937500001,"end":769.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.4297187500001,"end":772.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":772.5347187500001,"end":773.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":774.52596875,"end":776.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":776.7534687500001,"end":780.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.42784375,"end":783.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":783.30096875,"end":786.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":787.36784375,"end":788.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.34659375,"end":792.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.71721875,"end":801.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":794.8603437500001,"end":795.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.6953437500001,"end":798.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.28159375,"end":801.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.1884687500001,"end":801.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":801.25596875,"end":804.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.15034375,"end":803.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":803.3147187500001,"end":803.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":804.76596875,"end":810.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":810.99284375,"end":815.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.93721875,"end":818.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.16034375,"end":820.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.66221875,"end":821.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.64096875,"end":823.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":824.2903437500001,"end":826.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.9228437500001,"end":828.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.96471875,"end":830.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":830.6015937500001,"end":833.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.9934687500001,"end":835.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.2253437500001,"end":836.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.96346875,"end":837.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.1615937500001,"end":843.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":843.35909375,"end":847.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.9153437500001,"end":850.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":850.63221875,"end":851.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.9822187500001,"end":852.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":852.7922187500001,"end":860.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.5378437500001,"end":867.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":866.3090937500001,"end":877.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.04284375,"end":869.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.1609687500002,"end":869.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.19471875,"end":869.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.2453437500001,"end":869.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.5322187500001,"end":869.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":872.2153437500001,"end":872.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.2490937500002,"end":874.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.7334687500002,"end":881.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.12534375,"end":881.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.41221875,"end":881.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.96909375,"end":882.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.2390937500002,"end":882.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":882.25596875,"end":882.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.7790937500001,"end":882.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.15034375,"end":888.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.3984687500001,"end":888.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.19159375,"end":898.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":893.2922187500001,"end":894.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.0847187500001,"end":905.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.30721875,"end":908.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":908.96909375,"end":910.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.70284375,"end":914.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.2847187500001,"end":914.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":914.74034375,"end":920.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":920.6128437500001,"end":928.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":928.7803437500002,"end":933.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":934.5178437500001,"end":935.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":946.56659375,"end":949.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.32534375,"end":951.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.9497187500001,"end":951.9665937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.715,"end":20.661,"text":"主席、在場的袁先進、列席的政府機關長官員,大家早。那麼有請卓院長和經濟部郭部長、農業部陳部長。卓院長、陳部長還有郭部長請備選。"},{"start":28.909,"end":52.305,"text":"總委員好院長好兩位部長好院長昨天我們共同出席了中央通訊社一百週年的慶祝對嗎是的我很欣賞你最後結尾的那句話你說大家都慶祝中央社一百歲生日快樂你說你希望能跟他講一百次的生日快樂這意味著中央通訊社還在進一百年以上對不對"},{"start":53.444,"end":56.747,"text":"昨天我在聽到底通訊社相較於新聞業是什麼呢?我倒覺得他很像台積電。"},{"start":76.488,"end":88.628,"text":"他本身沒有媒體但是他透過供應給各個新聞媒體他把他的正確新聞傳播出去是不是這樣但是我也覺得未來中央通訊的使命就像那位印度通訊社的代表說的"},{"start":89.67,"end":117.32,"text":"他們發現自己的顧客變成自己的競爭者他們要開始有自己的平台但是有一件事情可以請你期許中央通訊學院去做的就是對於訊息新聞求真的判別如果中央通訊學院能夠幫忙把每一則新聞把關務求新聞的真我想他對其他的他的客戶就有價值你同意嗎是所以他要正確領先是的客觀好那接下來我們進入今天的主題"},{"start":118.2,"end":118.6,"text":"氣候變遷整個是一個很高戰略的"},{"start":132.95,"end":161.691,"text":"國家戰略的目標跟計畫所以行政院要負責具體的解決問題的方法同時在總統府成立的委員會當中他沒有組織沒有人事沒有預算他是諮詢他是諮詢政策的討論所以真正的執行行政院要負責當然而且還要經過政策跟行政院還要對接政策最後變遷大家認為是工業製造造成了大氣的環境的變化那受害者是誰呢你覺得第一個受害的是誰我告訴你第一個受害的不是工業是農業"},{"start":163.117,"end":181.843,"text":"我們陳部長,這就是今年我們氣候變遷造成的全台灣農損,包括屏東的芒果、蓮霧都是。我請教一下,這麼多的農損,我來請教陳部長,面對農民很可憐,如果是農損欠收不出成本,我們農業部會做什麼?"},{"start":182.91,"end":185.171,"text":"農產品不耐久放,所以量多價崩怎麼辦?農業部,你們是不是鼓勵做加工?"},{"start":203.663,"end":223.545,"text":"我們除了做加工以外,我們也會建置相關的一個滾動式的一個倉儲,冷鏈倉儲的部分。讓他延長農產品豐收的保存嘛,但是院長要跟你講,農業部做這麼多,可是農民會感謝嗎?因為這些鼓勵將農產品做初級加工,讓他可以保存久一點,是誰得到補貼?加工業者。"},{"start":224.315,"end":247.461,"text":"但是加工業者檸檬做成果汁之後可以放得比較久,但是農民會擔心你補助都補助加工中,他們就外面進口再吃,藍在這裡的本土的零食裡面,社會才分沒,很可惜啦。所以我覺得部長,院長你可以再請農業部考慮一個,他們在做的是什麼?除了鼓勵加工之外,就是冷鏈,是不是這樣?是。好,部長,那你們做了多少?"},{"start":249.192,"end":264.023,"text":"您們目前農業部在冷鏈的推動做了哪些?我們現在在冷鏈部分大概分三個區塊,一個區塊是區域冷鏈物流中心,它是結合附近的。第二個就是一個旗艦的部分,那旗艦的部分主要是以外銷為導向的。是的,說得好。來,院長你聽喔。"},{"start":264.844,"end":280.173,"text":"你看這個圖啊,其實農產地到集貨廠,大概的農會跟生產班在前端。後端呢,外交的有外交的貿易商,有果菜公司。那目前中間的大型通路跟盤商,盤商大概有自己資源的冷鏈。"},{"start":281.013,"end":296.876,"text":"那我們目前這種投資的人大概可以讓大型的通貨商做外銷放在機場附近,部長是不是這樣?對。好,但是這樣的一個投資受益者是後端,農民的價格在前端,因為他還沒有經過冷鏈,不耐久存,他的價格還是抬不起來。"},{"start":297.56,"end":297.92,"text":"目前的資料是這樣"},{"start":318.649,"end":343.889,"text":"是的,所以屋頂型光電有什麼好處呢?院長,屋頂型光電因為它人口密集區,它用的電馬上就可以上吊,它不用再潰線。但是地面型的光電大部分在鄉間嘛,部長是不是這樣?是的。所以配合鄉間的光電用量少的地區,這些發的電要怎麼辦?是不是要用儲能儲起來?沒錯。這要用儲能,光電要配合儲能才會產生韌性電網調節供電的效果。但這裡面有一個問題,潰線。"},{"start":345.882,"end":369.736,"text":"我們廣大鄉間的光電需要匯線放在儲能,儲能才能輸送到電網,是不是這樣子?好,那我們來看一下。目前,部長,請你告訴院長,目前這些儲能設施的裝置容量,是不是已經跟我們的光電裝置差不多了?目前差不多。差不多,但是大部分分布在哪裡?分布在光電集中的鄉間嗎?還是集中在比較工業集中的地帶?"},{"start":370.37,"end":370.971,"text":"目前的規範是這樣。很少。"},{"start":395.476,"end":414.601,"text":"國務部長來自於我們仿寮,仿寮唯一的工業區在北幾北,在東海那裡。請問有地方可以放儲能?所以在這裡給院長跟部長一個建議,其實如果儲能結合了充電跟冷鏈,其實在我們鄉間最怕停電的兩個,"},{"start":416.113,"end":419.955,"text":"這是一個很好的思考跟檢討的方向很好,所以怎麼辦?解答在你右手邊那一位,農業部"},{"start":434.76,"end":459.669,"text":"請部長告訴一下我們農業部,如果說儲能業者可以同時提供冷鏈,那麼農業部把它認定為農業設施,這個儲能就會放在農業用地上,放在集貨廠上,因為我們為什麼冷鏈不會在前端呢?因為集貨廠都是農會跟小農,都是生產班,沒有資本,他們也沒辦法投資,靠你的補助沒錢輸。"},{"start":460.663,"end":483.176,"text":"如果除農業者願意因為可以取得用地投資到我們生產班集貨廠那邊,這樣是不是解決兩邊的問題?謝謝委員。我想這一部分我跟農業部來討論,到實際回屏東去看一下。如果說有辦法的話,我們就依這個委員所提議的部分這個方向來努力。"},{"start":483.598,"end":501.657,"text":"院長請你指示農業部是不是研議把儲能結合能量後可以納入農業設施部長可不可以我想絕對可以我們現在已經一部分已經開始這樣做了特別是有一些像孤設有沒有那上面屋頂試探那是屋頂光電對但是他直接會供應他本身的一個用地是要儲能對"},{"start":502.558,"end":530.239,"text":"所以相對的有關於農業設施現在大概有將近兩千多兩千四百多公頃的一個一個屋頂型的那是屋頂型的然後我們會結合在鄉村會結合儲能設備然後直接供給我們的農業用電大部分的地面型光電不是在鄉下不是屋頂型啦是地面型啦如果能把這些地面型的光電放到集貨廠提供冷鏈也兼做儲能對農民幫助很大院長願不願意支持請兩位部長共同言語好不好"},{"start":531.339,"end":557.905,"text":"我請兩位部長積極來看如何幫助這些產生出來的電力能夠存留下來,工作有需要使用,那農地的使用是不是有必要做一些放寬或是怎麼樣,這個請農業部再來質詢。部長可以考慮嗎?可以,我們會來研議。那郭部長你也可以鼓勵儲能業者去投資在我們鄉間的這些冷鏈的集貨廠的農會生產班的儲能設施,剩下削的,你對台電的儲能你就可以賺錢,冷鏈這做服務的可以嗎?"},{"start":562.108,"end":579.765,"text":"另外我們看到,請問院長你知道嗎?我們每個地方都說要歡迎台積電啊,但是台積電要用電,要不要用水?要。要用水。所以呢我們半導體的產業,我們怎樣?我們不只怕缺電,也要怕缺水。但是有沒有雨水,我們沒辦法決定啊。"},{"start":580.666,"end":607.142,"text":"所以如果雨量少,家庭怕缺水,農民擔心沒有辦法灌溉,工廠是不是怕停產,是不是這樣子?是。那你認為目前我們台灣的降水、降雨哪個部門,工業部門、家庭部門跟農業部門哪邊用最多?農業用水佔了七成,民生用水佔了兩成,其實工業只佔了一成。"},{"start":608.103,"end":627.351,"text":"所以如果說我們要提高,當提供要花這麼多水的時候,七成的農藥放棄,兩成的家庭要贏,一成是工藥。你要在哪裡把這個水蓋起來贏,你覺得哪個地方投資效益最高?部長,如果你是企業家,用水分配是這樣,你的投資在哪裡?最後會有達到那個成長的效果,邊際效益最高?"},{"start":627.901,"end":630.703,"text":"水利署是全部的水資源的調度,農業部陳部長"},{"start":649.485,"end":667.506,"text":"你們看一看,你們農業有七成,其實呢是很多的量,但是多數不是農民用掉的,因為你們上游的集水設施不足,你們中游的輸水的管路老舊,到最後你們最末端的使用效能,噴澆啦,噴水啦,結水設施要加強,農業部有沒有在積極投資這一塊?"},{"start":668.407,"end":668.707,"text":"主委委員長我來自農業縣"},{"start":697.028,"end":710.48,"text":"你知道嗎?過去這三、四十年日治時代留下來的慣牌,其實農民已經不太用了。為什麼嗎?你知道嗎?為什麼農民不可以去咱們水里回慣牌?因為現在電太方便了。他每次要水,他拆這個,他接摩托,有電就出來了。"},{"start":715.438,"end":716.098,"text":"是,很好。"},{"start":742.605,"end":764.38,"text":"好,所以我們看一看,所以投資在哪裡呢?投資在我們的灌牌,然後蓄水設施,這樣的方式,也就是透過交通設施。我們交通部今天不在,其實交通部生活圈道路計畫提供了很多的經費。如果這些經費在道路上,把它結合我們的農田水利的設施,它這是哪?道路邊都做白水嘛。"},{"start":765.16,"end":773.024,"text":"部長,院長可不可以考慮這樣做?但是我要提醒你,我們看一下,真正我們的灌牌做了多少?部長、陳部長,這是不是你113年度有關農田水利市改善所投資的錢?"},{"start":792.922,"end":818.153,"text":"我想整個投資不只這樣,因為我們還有一些異後的特別預算在投入。所以平均整個農、田、水...好,異後的特別預算,前瞻,包括前瞻都已經快結束了啦。院長我要提醒你,農業用水用這麼多水,你到處這麼多錢,很可笑的啦。我再請你看,往下看。除了農業用水之外,我們自來水,你認為全台灣自來水普及率大概多少?部長要不要告訴院長,全台灣自來水普及率?"},{"start":822.254,"end":837.746,"text":"90幾%?92啦!60幾是屏東啦!你是屏東人啦!屏東69%啦!全國平均94%啦!我們在自來水未普及地區我們投入多少金額你知道嗎?我們投入這些啦!111年投入20億越來越少!"},{"start":838.386,"end":859.81,"text":"當然隨著普及率提高,我們經費需要的是較少。但是最大的問題出在哪裡嗎?為什麼我們主要在屏東這個地方跟南島普及率還不夠?因為水公司的執行能量有限。您要改變啦。院長可不可以指示經濟部加強水公司在自來水普及的計畫的投入、人力跟經費可以嗎?"},{"start":860.79,"end":888.188,"text":"吳志萊水地區的供水今年屏東應該還會有10億左右,10億的左右。50億喔?今年啦,今年。今年喔?沒有啦,沒有那麼多啦,因為水供是只做不到20億啦。水供系的能量,他說你讓他那麼多錢做不來,欠工啦,人不夠,保證我都加薪不?我們現在不是錢的問題啦,而是人的問題。是,所以部長、院長支持一下,讓經濟部加強這方面吳志萊水地區的普及的經費跟人力好不好?"},{"start":889.406,"end":910.138,"text":"這個在總經費160億當中,我們就逐年有做分配啊。那希望多增加。林洛、長治等地區今年應該會實質的改善。是的,沒錯林洛跟長治你講的重點了。最後呢我要看一下齁,其實你看一看我們工業用水投資多少海淡廠。部長你告訴院長,我們一個海淡廠要花多少錢?海水淡化廠,工業用的。"},{"start":911.955,"end":935.043,"text":"數十億起跳嘛,用10億做單位嘛。院長你看到沒有,工業用水海灘廠這個絕對不予匱乏的我們投資上百億,但是農業部門的灌牌,水公司水的自來水的沿館的普及需要再加強,所以我的結論就兩個,請提高,院長指示提高自來水沿館工程預算及提高施作效能,可以嗎?好的,已經照計劃。"},{"start":946.618,"end":947.321,"text":"好,謝謝莊委員、謝謝卓院長。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}