{"error":false,"id":["154427"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154427,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154427","日期":"2024-07-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-02T11:05:05+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-02T11:21:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a1547b0cbda12ab49de4d2c12d918673f79f1ebec16c54221ff5597b2e0b8530c93875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"11:05:05 - 11:21:04","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":533,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時5分）謝謝主席，我想要請卓院長跟財政部莊部長。"],["主席：卓院長及財政部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：院長、部長早安。請問莊部長，今年我們的稅會不會超收？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，今年大概到5月底為止，我們的稅收狀況其實還不錯，應該達成今年度的預算目標是沒有問題，但是可以超過多少目前還不確定，因為要等9月的營所稅暫繳稅款確定以後才明朗，但預算數我們初步估計是可以達成。"],["謝委員衣鳯：根據你們的統計資料，1到5月的實徵數是1兆3,263億，按照財政部的分配預算數是1兆1,784億，所以1到5月為止，你們超收的是1,479億對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，您說的1兆3,263億這個實收數是全國數……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個全國數是包含地方稅以及有的進入到特種基金的，中央的實收數是8,980……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你不用分這個，這是全國嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是全國數，對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有我們所有的分配預算數也是全國的啊，這個我都沒有說還分全國或地方嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是1到5月為止，你們已經超收1,479億，是不是這個數字？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，達成數以全年預算數來說是41%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是不是已經……"],["莊部長翠雲：您提的是分配數嘛。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，比分配數多了1,479億是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：對……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們沒有必要在這裡左右，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：不都是中央的……"],["莊部長翠雲：對，是這樣，但不全都是中央的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那我問你，主要達成預算分配數的是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：主要的大部分……"],["謝委員衣鳯：遺產稅？贈與稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：證交稅。"],["謝委員衣鳯：證交稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為今年的股市我們實際在估的時候，一天的日均量是3,563億，但是到5月底為止，大概平均日均量是4,800億，日均量高的話，證交稅收取的就比較高。另外綜所稅也是，因為利息所得還有一些股利所得分配得多，所以綜所稅也收的比原來多。"],["謝委員衣鳯：營業稅呢？營業稅裡面的……"],["莊部長翠雲：營業稅也是跟國內的需求穩定……"],["謝委員衣鳯：營所稅裡面的金融業營業稅，我看你們已經達成了173%是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：那是分配預算數，但是以全年數來說已達成53%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：已經達成53%嘛，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那我想請問你，金管會已經報給你們了，它是不是希望我們的當沖交易稅可以繼續減免？你們的態度是如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關當沖降稅這個部分，依照目前的規定是到今年年底落日，至於要不要繼續實施以及怎麼做調整，這個部分我們跟金管會還持續就相關資料在彙整討論當中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：主委，你是不是有送財政部？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我們今年年初已經把我們的意見送給財政部了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們希望降稅，為什麼財政部不給降？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，不是不給降，而是資料送來，我們希望再進一步蒐集更多的資料。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對於金融業的營業稅是否有調降或者是維持原狀？金管會你們目前的態度是如何？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，對於金融營業稅的態度，我們也已經跟財政部報告過了，主要是因為金融業的特性，我們認為就原來提撥的部分我們繼續保留，但是未來希望稅率能夠調降，至於稅率調降多少是財政部的權責。"],["謝委員衣鳯：稅率調降，財政部同不同意？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，您會關心到金融營業稅，最主要是金融營業稅原來是有一部分要進入到金融業特別準備金，進入特別準備金的部分也落日了，在今年年底落日，所以主委剛剛也說，對於金融特別準備金已經提撥在裡面的，希望還是保留在這個準備金裡面來適應未來金融業需求，至於未來的稅率是怎麼樣，這個部分我們也會跟金管會討論，對於金融業怎麼樣是有幫助，能夠提升國際的競爭力等等，我們會再做一個進一步的討論。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是我看金融營業稅也提前達標，代表我們金融業的營收是非常好的是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為利息高嘛！又有升息嘛！所以金融營業稅也有增加。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以這個部分還是要考量是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然我們這個部分會一起考量，不是只有這個稅的問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：按照你們整體的稅收模型，今年度預估達成，除了達成預算數以外，超收的機率是如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：達成預算數，那就是超過預算數的部分，我們認為只是金額是多大的部分，剛剛跟委員報告要等到下半年才會確認，因為現在還在上半年。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道，可是你們畢竟要有預估嘛！是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：預估的話，我們初估大概是……現在還很難講，我覺得應該還是要到下半年才能夠更明朗，我覺得這個時候說也不是很準啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：今年度1到5月已經超過1,479億了，卓院長，如果今年超收的時候，你要怎麼用？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，報告委員，稅金的實徵數跟預算數會發生這種落差，是因為我們編定的時候是一年前，經過很多的國際因素、國內因素……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我不是問你這個問題啊！我問你要怎麼用？"],["卓院長榮泰：我要講的就是它超徵多少，那當然是預估，但重要的是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我是問你要怎麼用？"],["卓院長榮泰：實徵數多的，它的用途在哪裡……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問你怎麼用，要不要給其他非六都的縣市65歲以上的民眾，跟六都一樣健保免費？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得它應該先補差短，然後再補債務，還有一些特別統籌……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是我們要修財劃法？"],["卓院長榮泰：另外還有像是因應……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們要不要修財劃法？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個要順序下來……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們要不要修財劃法？"],["卓院長榮泰：那才是它的正確用途，而不是一塊錢……"],["謝委員衣鳯：賴總統在擔任市長的時候，以及他在擔任行政院長的時候，他說要修財劃法，你認為現在要不要修財劃法？"],["卓院長榮泰：財劃法包括大院裡面已經在討論嘛！那我們認為現在財劃法，在實行這麼多年下來，中央對地方的補助較8年前增加了兩、三千億，3,400億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有沒有修的必要？還是賴總統也要放在總統府，他要再成立一個財劃收支的委員會？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個不需要。"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會？他自己來做，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個不需要。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以為什麼當初他希望做，而今天執政了，是因為你卓院長當行政院長，他就不想要做了，是不是？是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當初停下來的因素就是很多，我們已經報告過了，各地的要求跟實際上能夠達到的落差都很大，所以沒有辦法達成各縣市的一致，這個是一個最大的問題，我想那個問題到今天依然存在。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有，我有看到，所以你的說法跟財政部的莊部長一樣嘛！先解決水平再解決垂直，那這不是拖遲？那為什麼不先解決垂直再解決水平呢？是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：水平的分配……"],["謝委員衣鳯：先解決垂直分配，不要讓中央集權又集錢嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：中央沒有集權集錢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去25年前，在凍省之後，我們就討論要修財劃收支法，但是到了現在，我們還不願意把多的錢分配給地方，如果政府不願意自己來做，讓65歲以上的老人，讓所有的民眾能夠在六都跟在其他縣市一視同仁嘛！那你們不做，讓國民黨的地方政府來做嘛！好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我再說一次，現在跟8年前相比，給地方的補助多了3,400億，而且還有長照、還有前瞻……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們整體的預算也增加了，我們整體的預算也增加了……"],["卓院長榮泰：我的意思就是說不修任何的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以比例沒有增加。"],["卓院長榮泰：不修法的情況底下，中央對地方的補助增加了很多。"],["謝委員衣鳯：比例減少了，比例沒有增加。好，我再問你一個問題，你昨天說要找戶政單位比對資料，將適婚年齡的未婚青年跟結婚好幾年沒有生子的都一起，那請問這有沒有侵犯到個人隱私？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我再次說明，昨天到戶政日的頒獎，其中有一個獎項就是人口政策措施獎勵的績優獎，所以我鼓勵現場的人員，希望他們在這個基礎上運用更多的AI技術，更精準投放一些政策宣導跟獎勵措施給適婚年齡的人，是這個用意，絕對沒有超越現在的做法。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那怎麼樣子用AI來比對……"],["卓院長榮泰：就是需要大家去研究。"],["謝委員衣鳯：跟尊重民眾的隱私權，這中間怎麼協調？"],["卓院長榮泰：我一直主張AI要民主AI，以不侵犯人權的AI、有民主素養的AI，所以絕對不會侵犯人權，昨天的講法也絕對沒有超越……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不要、不要，AI是中性的啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：AI有沒有民主素養都歸咎於用它的那個人有沒有民主素養。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們已經在獎勵這些優良的戶政人員，所以昨天我是頒人口政策措施宣導績優獎，有這個獎項，希望他們在基礎上做得更好、更精準，絕對沒有超越現在任何的做法。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝，兩位請回。我想要請楊總裁跟彭主委。"],["主席：總裁跟主委。"],["謝委員衣鳯：院長，謝謝你，你要站著是不是？沒關係，你要站著。我是說你可以回座，你要站著是不是？好，你站、你站。"],["主席：院長，你要回座休息嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒關係、沒關係。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要站著是不是？好。","楊總裁，我想請教一下，今年外界大家都在盛傳，也在研究9月份美國聯準會（Fed）會降息，你的看法是如何？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，市場是做這樣的一個price in，有這樣的一個預期。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有這樣的預期，你的看法呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，市場也蠻那個的啦……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你有很多估計模型，你的估計模型呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我是覺得美國在下半年有降息的機會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果它降了，我們央行會不會跟著降？我注意到了，你的央行理監事會就在聯準會的後面。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，我跟委員報告，當然利率升降是由理事會來決定，不過美國降，大家都猜中央銀行也會降，其實我在幾次的場合都是這麼回答，事實上臺灣的情況跟美國的情況也不盡然相同，也就是說，不是全球都降，臺灣就一定降，但是臺灣會看國際的情況是怎麼樣、我們國內的情況是怎麼樣來做這個決定，這是理事會決定的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，所以你是有條件的，不一定會跟它降？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，當然。"],["謝委員衣鳯：什麼條件你會跟著它降？"],["楊總裁金龍：如果像美國調降的主要目的，第一個，他們的經濟情況就是下來了，主要是它的通膨下來、它的經濟情況也是下來，在這兩種情況之下，它就會調降，臺灣的話，我們的通膨率到目前為止已經差不多在2%左右，雖然我們的經濟成長是今年比去年好，但是稍微在復甦的動力……"],["謝委員衣鳯：去年是基期的關係，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，委員說得沒有錯，有一部分是基期的因素沒有錯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我們昨天去看財金公司，我有看到對於數位貨幣的推廣，你們說我們現在所採用的就是Real-Time Gross Settlement，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們的交易量每秒可以到達100筆，比起現在你們的去識別化區塊鏈技術每秒只能10筆，你預計什麼時候我們去識別化、去中心化的區塊鏈技術可以到達每秒100筆以上？"],["楊總裁金龍：所以現在才正在那個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，什麼時候可以？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個時間表到目前為止，我們還沒有很明確在什麼時候就一定會達到。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有，你們的財金公司做的就是這些跨行結算、結清等等，所以你們對於這些財金公司的資本額是多少？"],["楊總裁金龍：它的資本額昨天它也有說明。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們資本額很高，還有EPS也很好，你說不用分配回去，但是你們賺錢要回饋一般民眾嘛！是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：我昨天針對這個問題，我也有表達……"],["謝委員衣鳯：有，你有表達。"],["楊總裁金龍：我有表達我個人的意見，就是說像財金公司是比較屬於科技方面的，那科技方面的，你如果說看看其他國家的科技方面……我昨天有講，像……這種都是一定要讓它的技術能夠提升，它的人員待遇要能夠好一點，我昨天要強調的是這個。"],["謝委員衣鳯：謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員指教，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位我們請沈發惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅明才","張智倫","涂權吉","沈發惠","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","謝龍介","謝衣鳯","林德福","吳秉叡","黃珊珊","丁學忠","呂玉玲","張宏陸","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","許智傑","林倩綺","葉元之"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00004","1136401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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?還是賴總統也要放在總統府?還有在成立一個才華收支的委員會?會不會他自己來做?是不是?"},{"start":464.881,"end":475.053,"text":"所以為什麼當初他希望做而今天執政了是因為你昨院長當行政院長他就不想要做了是不是?"},{"start":476.186,"end":479.289,"text":"所以你的說法跟財政部的莊部長一樣嘛先解決水平再解決垂直那是不是拖遲那為什麼不先解決垂直再解決水平呢是不是"},{"start":503.69,"end":526.203,"text":"先解決垂直分配,不要讓中央集權又集錢嘛。過去25年前在動審之後我們就討論要修財化收支法,但是到了現在我們還不願意把多的錢分配給地方,如果政府不願意"},{"start":527.083,"end":553.336,"text":"就是自己來做65歲以上的人讓所有的民眾能夠在六都跟在其他縣是一視同仁嘛那你們不做讓國民黨的地方政府來做嘛好不好報告委員我剛剛說我再說一次現在跟8年前相比給地方的補助多了3400億而且還有我們整體的預算也增加了我們整體的預算也增加了所以比例沒有增加"},{"start":554.957,"end":555.837,"text":"請問有沒有侵犯到?"},{"start":581.051,"end":605.152,"text":"謝謝委員我再次的說明昨天到互證日的頒獎其中有一個獎項就是人口政策的這個措施獎勵的機油獎所以我鼓勵現場的人員希望他們這個基礎上運用更多的AI技術去更精準的投放一些政策的宣導跟獎勵的措施給適合年齡的人是這個用意絕對沒有超越現在的做法"},{"start":606.093,"end":613.18,"text":"我一直主張AI要民主AI,以不侵犯人權的AI,有民主素養的AI,所以絕對不會侵犯人權。昨天的講法也絕對沒有超越..."},{"start":625.191,"end":625.211,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":650.935,"end":672.694,"text":"兩位請回,我想要請那個楊總裁跟我們的彭主委。總裁跟主委。院長謝謝你。你要站著是不是?沒關係啊,你要站著,好好好,你站你站。我是說你可以回座說。"},{"start":674.07,"end":700.323,"text":"你要站著是不是?好,你站,你站。院長,你要回座休息。沒關係沒關係。你要站著是不是?好好好。欸,楊總裁,我想請教一下,就教一下。就是,今年大家都,就是外界都在盛傳,也在研究,9月份美國聯準會法會降息嗎?那你的看法是如何?"},{"start":701.241,"end":727.671,"text":"是,那個市場是做這樣的一個Pricing,有這樣的一個預期。有這樣的預期,你的看法勒?市場也蠻那個的啦。你有很多估計模型,你的估計模型勒?我是覺得就是說美國在下半年這邊它有降息的機會。有,是不是?是。如果它降了。是。"},{"start":728.496,"end":744.158,"text":"我們央行會不會跟著降?我注意到了,你的央行的禮監事會就在聯整會的後面。是,我跟委員報告,當然就是說利率升降是由禮事會來決定。"},{"start":745.74,"end":762.171,"text":"那不過呢我就說美國這樣那大家都猜就是說中央銀行也會這樣那其實我在幾次的那個場合我也是這麼回答了就是說事實上台灣的情況跟美國的情況也不盡然是相同啦"},{"start":762.931,"end":783.187,"text":"所以就是說不是說全球都要這樣那台灣就一定這樣但是但是就是說台灣會看國際的情況是怎麼樣我們國內的情況是怎麼樣來做這個決定那這是理事會來決定的好所以你是有條件的不一定會跟他講什麼條件你會跟著他講"},{"start":785.502,"end":798.826,"text":"如果說像說那個美國他調降的主要的目的是第一個他的經濟情況就是下來了主要的是說他的通膨下來他的經濟情況也是下來那在這兩種情況之下他就會調降"},{"start":803.447,"end":829.114,"text":"那台灣的話呢我們的通膨率到目前為止都已經到差不多是在2%左右啦都已經在2%左右那我們的經濟成長呢雖然是今年比去年好但是呢是稍微就是說復甦啊那個動力是因為去年是積極的關係對不對對對對有一部分委員是沒有錯是有一部分是積極的一個因素對沒有錯"},{"start":829.907,"end":847.595,"text":"我們昨天去看財經公司,我有看到了對於數位貨幣的推廣,你們說到了我們現在所採用的就是real-time growth settlement,我們的交易量每秒可以到達100幣。"},{"start":849.235,"end":871.609,"text":"是比現在你們推估就是你們的技術去識別化的區塊鏈技術每秒只能10筆那你預計什麼時候我們去識別化去中心化的區塊鏈技術可以到達每秒100筆以上的這個結晶的所以現在才是正在那個嘛"},{"start":872.109,"end":897.717,"text":"什麼時候可以?這個時間表還到目前為止我們還沒有很明確的就說在什麼時候就一定會達到。還有那你們的財經公司那你們做的就是跨行這些就是結算啦結金啦等等那所以你們對於這些你們財經公司你們的資本額多少?"},{"start":900.117,"end":917.115,"text":"他的資本額昨天他也有說明啊。你們資本額很高欸,你EPS也很好欸。你說了不用分配回去,但是你們賺錢要回饋我們一般民眾嘛,是不是?"},{"start":918.316,"end":936.506,"text":"我昨天針對這個問題我也有表達我個人的意見就是說像財經公司它是比較屬於科技方面的那科技方面的你如果說看看其他國家的科技像UOCLIR我昨天也有講了還有"},{"start":949.997,"end":953.261,"text":"好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝卓院長下一位我們請審發會委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}