{"error":false,"id":["154441"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154441,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154441","日期":"2024-07-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-35,19-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[35,19],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會","經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-03T09:26:46+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-03T09:33:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:10","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd751799fd719ea4c7bbafa62845183024dc75a2b8c9f1b70611b71d275bb92f445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:26:46 - 09:33:56","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「馬拉喀什世界貿易組織協定修正議定書」及其附件「漁業補貼協定」案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府部分停止中華民國（臺灣）與薩爾瓦多共和國暨宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定施行文書」案。\n三、審查行政院函請審議我國與宏都拉斯共和國間自112年12月6日終止「中華民國（臺灣）與薩爾瓦多共和國暨宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":114,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時26分）謝謝主席，請外交部陳常次。"],["主席：次長請。"],["陳次長立國：陳委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：陳常次早。最近有一個新聞是尼加拉瓜日前開始擔任SICA（中美洲統合體）臨時主席國，被質疑增加了很多中國和俄羅斯的議程，這就讓人擔心它會不會故技重施的做一些「排臺納中」的行為，甚至讓中國取代臺灣在這個組織的觀察員地位，會不會？"],["陳次長立國：謝謝委員這個問題的提詢，我們對於剛剛您所關切的這個議題非常關注，而且會嚴加防範。的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後，跟中國的關係越來越密切，我們之前在中美洲議會也是因為有某種原因，附從中國的這些以前跟我們有邦交的國家後來就極盡各種手段來破壞我們跟其他友邦的關係，包括區域型的國際組織，所以有關於SICA的這個部分，我們會盡全力來防堵。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們要怎麼防堵？"],["陳次長立國：首先，我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA，當然它的體制、規範有些不同，在SICA的6個成員國裡面，至少還有瓜地馬拉及貝里斯是我們堅定的友邦。因為它所有重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會來提報，而且要所有會員共識決來產生，所以至少我們還有瓜地馬拉及貝里斯的堅定支持來防範阻擋這些意圖，至少我們在這方面會盡全力。當然不只如此，我們還要繼續加強包括這個區域內如果對我們有意發展關係、跟我們友好的，我們也會嘗試爭取他們的支持，來防堵這樣的情況發生。"],["陳委員亭妃：剛剛常次有說，我們在這個組織的會員國裡面，基本上，跟我們本身有友邦關係的有兩個……"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是比例也算是少，舉手也舉不贏人家，這樣我們怎麼……"],["陳次長立國：可是是以共識決為主。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，當然是共識決，就是說在共識當中，我們怎麼去掌控這個多數我們不會受到影響，共識決一定是多數共識嘛，對不對？"],["陳次長立國：全體共識。"],["陳委員亭妃：當然是要全體共識啦，可是它是不是會受到影響？"],["陳次長立國：基本上，我們就是希望如果有任何一個會員反對，我們現在至少也還有兩個友邦，也就是說，如果有任何一個國家反對，就不會成為一個議決的決定。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度？到目前為止，因為是全體的共識嘛，我們只要掌控這兩個會員國，基本上只要不是全體的共識，就不會變成一個議決嘛。"],["陳次長立國：是，委員這樣的解釋是對的。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們現在要解釋給所有臺灣人民知道嘛！"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：現在媒體這麼一報，大家就開始擔心是不是我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到，可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國，我們目前有掌控住嗎？"],["陳次長立國：那當然，因為他們是我們堅定的友邦，然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常密切，這個友誼是非常堅定，也會全力來協助我們。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，那我們再談另外一個議題，被騙喔，我們也知道現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作，宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例嘛！"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們也擔心，我剛剛會有這樣一個層次不同的詢問，就是要讓大家知道，這是一個全體共識決，而我們還有兩個會員國，但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為所謂中國在經濟上的一些引誘而造成他們的態度有所改變？那我們就要跟大家說，大家要看宏都拉斯的案子……"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個案例太清楚了，它當時也是因為被引誘，中國給它很多的糖吃，它不知道那是包著糖衣的毒藥，現在它的蝦農沒有辦法被中國照過去所謂的要求會全收，這個當時大家談好的條件，它沒有辦法處理，導致我們看到宏都拉斯的白蝦沒有辦法很成功的出口到中國，所以這個產業面臨要崩潰，甚至倒閉，這是最佳的案例。"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我為什麼會提出這兩個部分，因為我們要很清楚的讓我們的友邦知道，我們臺灣對友邦是言出必行。"],["陳次長立國：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是中國不是，它給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥……"],["陳次長立國：華而不實的承諾。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，華而不實的承諾，而且都是騙局。像過去的一帶一路，到現在有多少國家被騙了？"],["陳次長立國：數不清吧！"],["陳委員亭妃：數不清嘛，所以有數不清的國家被騙，然後再直接對我們的友邦用這麼多的好條件去吸引他們，讓他們跟臺灣斷交、跟中國建交，這個目的達成之後就開始跳票了！"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以，現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是，因為中國的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉。"],["陳次長立國：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們必須不斷的讓我們的友邦去瞭解這樣的案例，讓他們很清楚地看到這個現實的狀態，我覺得這個部分是比較重要的，再麻煩我們外交部大家要努力，辛苦了！"],["陳次長立國：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我知道現在外交部的處境，要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳，而不是自己在自己的國內，而是去讓大家知道臺灣跟中國基本上的不同。謝謝。"],["陳次長立國：謝謝委員的指教，這方面我們會繼續努力。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員。陳次長，SICA跟歐盟一樣，都是consensus decision嘛？"],["陳次長立國：是，我剛剛有說明。"],["主席：所以，一個可以……"],["陳次長立國：就是一票就可以否決，如果沒有共識，就不會達成決議。"],["主席：所以這個要講清楚，免得國人擔心。謝謝。"],["陳次長立國：是的。"],["主席：接下來進行詢答的委員是鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,19-1","speakers":["王定宇","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","羅美玲","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法"},{"start":298.353,"end":298.373,"text":"二、審"},{"start":327.626,"end":352.959,"text":"這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了"},{"start":354.219,"end":374.745,"text":"數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是"},{"start":375.888,"end":394.261,"text":"所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態"},{"start":398.004,"end":417.442,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝"},{"start":418.924,"end":429.084,"text":"謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensus decision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}