{"error":false,"id":["154473"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154473,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154473","日期":"2024-07-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-03T10:35:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-03T10:46:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd4da21d50badb14a7cb3f5941fe168625d15f5ccb8d26769b47817b53da4fb3745ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"10:35:04 - 10:46:21","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。\n二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n【7月3日及4日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":568,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（10時35分）主席、各位列席官員，各位委員大家早。主席，我想請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["顏委員寬恒：主委好，針對「如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設，加速建設之推動」，保險業資金作為穩定可觀的資金來源，應該能在公共建設當中發揮更大的作用，目前保險業資金參與公共建設的程度非常有限，僅占可運用資金的0.42%。目前我國保險業資金主要投資在債券、股票、不動產等傳統資產，參與公共建設的比率非常低，這主要是因為現行法規對於保險資金運用的限制、公共建設項目的投資風險，以及回報週期比較長等原因。現行法規對於保險資金的運用有一定的限制，比率不得超過資產總額的30%，這在一定程度上限制了保險資金投入公共建設的空間，部分公共建設項目的投資回報週期長，存在的政策跟市場風險也比較大，所以這也使得保險公司對於投資公共建設項目非常的謹慎。請教主委，針對現行法規的部分，你認為是否有修法的可能？關於修法的幅度及範圍，可不可以請主委說明一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，您提到三個原因，確實比如像第二個原因跟第三個原因，第一個原因容我說明一下，保險業根據保險法第一百四十六條之二可以投資在不動產的額度，剛剛委員也提到是30%，其實現在實際的投入應該是遠低於這個比率，所以不動產的投資比率應該不會限制到公建，只是我們對不動產的投資有很多措施，比如說避免炒房，所以規定它不可以投入住宅；另外對於投入商辦，我們也有一定的最低報酬率的限制，也就是我們對於市場管控有比較多的措施。有關比率的部分，根據我們現在的評估是不需要修法，因為不管是針對不動產投資，現在的比率加上BOT等等，其實都還有很多的額度。"],["顏委員寬恒：依照保險法第一百四十六條的規定，對於不動產投資的比率有所限制，所以我才想要問主委要不要提出院版，針對保險資金投入公共建設的部分加以修正，提高它的比率？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果市場上已經有普遍存在非常適合的投資工具的話，我們可以朝這個方向來思考，但假設我們規定有一定的比率要投資公建，問題是現在沒有那麼多的標的，即便有了標的，而那個條件不符合壽險業成本結構的話，這樣反而會引發保險經營上面的問題。所以我覺得應該是未來假設投資公建已經有非常多適合它投資的工具，這時我們針對保險業就可以適時給予鼓勵，或是給予一點約束，我想現在的情況可能還沒辦法到達那個狀況。"],["顏委員寬恒：就像你報告裡面也寫到要推動公共建設作為國家的重要政策，配合國家重要政策，適時檢討相關法規，促進保險業者投入公共建設，而你剛剛提到投資公建標的物這些部分都必須要去創造，第一個它面臨的風險性、政策變動、市場風險，加上投資金額量體很大、回收的週期很長，所以才需要國家政策的介入來幫助它，這部分我想請主委作更具體的設想，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["顏委員寬恒：為了要促進保險業者擴大參與公共建設，我提出幾點建議：一、調整法規的限制，就像你在報告裡面有提到適當放寬公共建設投資的限制，提高保險資金在基礎設施跟公共服務領域的投資比率，制定一個針對性的政策，鼓勵保險公司參與公共建設的項目。二、建立投資保障機制，金管會應該建立健全的公共建設項目投資保障機制，藉此來保障保險公司。三、提供稅收優惠相關激勵措施，對於積極參與公共建設的保險公司提供稅收優惠，激勵保險公司來參加公共建設的投資。促進保險業資金參與公共建設，能為我國公共建設提供穩定的資金來源，而且還能提升保險公司的資產配置效率，實現雙贏。關於促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設的部分，按羅明才召委的提案，保險業依法目前海外投資最高可達可運用資金的45%，根據這份報告，它經過81年、89年、96年三次修法，把原來的比率從20%提高到45%。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，從5%一直提高到45%。"],["顏委員寬恒：召委是希望能夠把資金落實投資在國內，創造有效的就業機會，如果投資的熱錢都在國外，對臺灣的幫助到底有多大？如果能夠把這些錢移轉到國內，對於國內的整體就業及臺灣整體薪資的成長是不是會有所助益？可不可以請主委說明一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實不只是保險業的資金，能夠投資臺灣、創造產業、創造就業機會，這當然是大家所樂見，剛剛有提到保險業過去為什麼會有這麼高的比率投資，我剛剛也簡單說明2002年以前的高利率保單，這樣的利差損必須透過實質投資收益來解決問題，所以我們才會有這麼長時間的期間來做這種政策性的逐步放寬，但是最近因為環境的變化，臺美利差變大，海外投資的匯兌風險增加，所以我覺得現在是一個時機，假設我們能夠創造更多的案源，也就如剛剛委員所提示的，如果我們有很完備的案源，就可以鼓勵或提醒保險公司多多來投資這樣創造雙贏的案源，這才是未來真正要努力的方向。"],["顏委員寬恒：對，所以我們要幫助國內，把國人的錢留在臺灣。目前海外投資最高可達運用資金的45%，按照主委剛剛的說法，這45%會下修是嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：關於這45%，其實保險業資金的45%是動態的，每年會隨著它的業績增加而增加，假設保險公司每年大概多一、兩兆的新錢進來，實際上這部分我們就可以多多鼓勵它投資臺灣。"],["顏委員寬恒：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：但是對於它已經配置在海外的投資，如果貿然去做這些處理的話，其實會產生很大的負向作用，所以我們必須要謹慎。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，調降保險業資金國外投資總額，讓資金回到臺灣投資、建設臺灣，帶動科技產業的升級，創造更多的就業機會，提升員工的薪資，這是我們最重要的目標。"],["彭主任委員金隆：提升國內是我們的目標，但是我們的方法要……"],["顏委員寬恒：要用對的方法。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，要用一個比較適合的方法。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，謝謝主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["顏委員寬恒：接下來我想請央行副總裁。"],["主席：請央行嚴副總裁。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：委員好。"],["顏委員寬恒：我先請教央行日前為了打炒房，所以調升存款準備率，收縮銀行1,200億資金，你認為調高存款準備率是實質且強而有力的緊縮措施，是這樣子嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為我們只有調升1碼，回收資金1,200億，其實每一個銀行分攤下來的話，有的大銀行大概是二、三十億，基本上我們希望透過這樣子讓銀行的資金稍微緊縮一下，特別在對房地產的放款方面。"],["顏委員寬恒：對，這樣子對銀行的放貸資金造成抑制的效果，會不會間接也造成了對物價的波動？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我個人認為沒有那麼直接，看不出來有直接的影響，因為我們還會透過公開市場操作，隨時去調整銀行的流動性問題。"],["顏委員寬恒：我有4項疑慮想請教你：第一個，貸款利率上升會增加他們的成本，銀行也可能會提高貸款的利率；第二個，儲蓄利率的調整會實質影響到實質收益，也為了反映成本的增加，所以去調整利率；流動性緊縮會導致市場上的狀況；第四，影響股市。會不會影響股市？我相信大家都很關心，這部分可不可以簡單說明，因為時間有限？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，您這邊提到的問題，我們會注意這些到底它的衝擊是多大的，會注意這個問題。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，謝謝。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位質詢請王鴻薇王委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-20","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","賴惠員","顏寬恒","王鴻薇","李彥秀","黃珊珊","王世堅","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","林楚茵","鍾佳濱","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-07-03"],"gazette_id":"1136901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大\n參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員\n會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢；二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六\n條之四條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.70596875,"end":1.9209687500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.52846875,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.85284375,"end":6.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.00471875,"end":6.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.03846875,"end":6.629093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.30784375,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.337218750000002,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.809718750000002,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.395968750000002,"end":20.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.88846875,"end":27.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.48221875,"end":34.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.080343750000004,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.28659375,"end":41.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.20159375,"end":44.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.39096875,"end":48.158468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.344093750000006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限僅佔可運用資金的0.42%"},{"start":38.374,"end":55.865,"text":"那目前我國保險業資金主要投資在债券、股票、不動產等傳統資產而參與公共建設的比例非常低那這主要是因為現行法規對於保險資金運用的限制還有公共建設項目的投資風險還有回報週期比較長這些原因"},{"start":61.109,"end":76.67,"text":"現行法規對於保險資金的運用有一定的限制比例不得超過資產總額的30%在這一定程度上限制了保險資金投入公共建設的"},{"start":77.731,"end":81.013,"text":"中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢"},{"start":103.77,"end":123.2,"text":"報告委員您提到這個三個原因確實比如說像第二個原因跟第三個原因確實那第一個原因容我說明一下其實保險業它根據保險法146條之二裡面可以投資在不動產的額度剛剛委員也提到30%其實我們現在實際的投入應該是遠低於這個"},{"start":123.88,"end":150.625,"text":"所以我們這個不動產的投資比例應該不會限制到這個公建那只是我們對不動產的投資有很多比如說避免炒房我們是不可以投入住宅也對於投入商辦我們有一定的最低報酬率的限制這個東西可能是我們比較對於市場管控的一些比較多的措施但是這個比例的部分根據我們的現在的評估是不需要做這個修法因為我們不管是不動產投資現在比例"},{"start":151.365,"end":165.964,"text":"其實加上比如說BOT這些案例其實都還有很多的額度所以這個部分保險法146條的規定這個部分對於不動產投資的比例有所限制所以我才想要問說"},{"start":167.35,"end":191.743,"text":"主委,這院板,您要不要提出院板,針對保險資金投入公共建設的部分來做一個修正。提高它的比例。如果這樣的話,如果我們市場上已經有普遍存在非常適合的投資工具的話,我們可以考量朝這個方向來思考。但現在問題是,假設我們規定有一定的比例要投資公建,問題是我們現在的沒有那麼多的"},{"start":192.563,"end":194.444,"text":"邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會．加速建設之推動．加速建設之推動"},{"start":220.058,"end":238.405,"text":"對,就像你報告裡面也寫到就是說要推動公共建設作為這個國家的重要政策那配合國家重要政策適時的檢討相關法規促進保險業者投入公共建設所以你剛剛提到說投資工件、標的物這些部分都必須要去創造是的"},{"start":240.806,"end":258.319,"text":"所以第一個它的風險性以及它的我們剛剛有提到就是說政策變動或者是市場風險然後呢投資金額量體很大回收的週期很長所以這個才需要我們國家政策的一個介入然後來幫助它"},{"start":259.279,"end":275.989,"text":"這部分所以我想請主委來做一個更具體的一個設想好不好那再來就是說我再提出啦我也要解決等於說促進保險業者擴大參與公共建設那我提出幾點的建議"},{"start":277.63,"end":303.858,"text":"調整法規的限制就像你的報告裡面有提到適當的放寬這些公共建設的一個投資的限制提高保險資金在基礎設施和公共服務領域的一個投資比例制定一個針對性的政策鼓勵保險公司參與公共建設的項目第二點就是建立投資保障機制"},{"start":307.279,"end":334.609,"text":"經管會應該要建立健全的一個公共建設項目投資保障機制這部分來保障我們的保險公司第三項就是提供稅收優惠相關的這些基地措施那對於積極參與公共建設的保險公司提供稅收優惠那基地保險公司來參加對於這種公共建設一個投資那主委"},{"start":335.669,"end":362.217,"text":"促進保險業資金參與公共建設．能為我國公共建設提供穩定的資金來源．而且還能夠提升保險公司的一個資產配置效率．實現雙贏．然後促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設的部分那我們召委羅明才召委提案保險業目前依法海外投資最高可達可運用資金的45%"},{"start":363.854,"end":389.106,"text":"那這是經過了我看這個報告裡面他經過了從這個81年然後89年96年三次的修法把原來的一個比例從20%一直提高到45%對,從5%一直提高到45%那昭緯他是希望說能夠把這個資金能夠"},{"start":394.588,"end":394.868,"text":"主席"},{"start":421.972,"end":437.106,"text":"資金不只是保險業的資金能夠投資台灣創造產業創造就業機會這當然是大家所樂見剛剛有提到說保險業過去為什麼這麼高的比例投資確實我剛剛也簡單說明2002年以前的高利率保單"},{"start":438.007,"end":438.167,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":466.781,"end":488.522,"text":"不管是鼓勵或是提醒保險公司多多來投資這樣創造雙贏這才是我們真正未來可以來努力的一個方向所以說我們幫助國內把這些把國人的錢留在台灣那海外投資最高可達運用資金的45%所以就是說主委按照你剛剛的說法這45%會下修"},{"start":490.46,"end":515.452,"text":"這45%現在因為其實保險業資金的45%是動他每年會隨著他業績增加而增加所以比如說我們假設保險公司每年大概多一兩兆的新錢進來實際上這部分我們就可以多多鼓勵他投資台灣對但是他已經配置在海外的這些的這些那個投資如果貿然的去做這些處理的話其實會產生很大的那個負向的作用所以我們要必須要謹慎"},{"start":516.232,"end":537.293,"text":"好,所以調降保險業資金,國外的投資總額,調降,然後呢,讓資金回到台灣投資,建設台灣,帶動科技產業的升級,創造更多的就業機會,然後提升員工的薪資等等,這是我們最重要的目標啦。就是說提升國內是我們的目標,但是我們的方法要用一個比較適合的方法。"},{"start":540.356,"end":549.929,"text":"好,謝謝主委。謝謝委員。那我想請我們央行我們的總裁。央行嚴副總裁。"},{"start":561.107,"end":574.298,"text":"央行日前為了打炒房所以調升存款準備率收收銀行1200億的資金那你認為調高這個存款準備率是實質而強力有力的緊縮措施是這樣子嗎"},{"start":576.124,"end":604.195,"text":"因為我們只有調生鷹馬他其實回收資金1200億那每一個銀行分攤下來的話有的大銀行大概二三十億這樣子那基本上我們是希望透過這樣子來讓銀行的資金稍微緊縮一下特別在對房地產的放款方面對那這樣子對銀行的一個放貸資金造成一個抑制的效果那所以會不會間接也造成了對物價的波動"},{"start":605.462,"end":621.331,"text":"我個人認為沒有那麼直接看不出來有直接的影響因為我們還會透過公開市場操作隨時去調整銀行的那個有事項疑慮 我想請教有事項疑慮第一個就是說貸款利率上升"},{"start":622.111,"end":622.131,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":640.675,"end":640.855,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":672.233,"end":673.198,"text":"王宏威委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}