{"error":false,"id":["154539"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154539,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154539","日期":"2024-07-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-05T14:46:24+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-05T15:01:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4edc3fae9cb29e975b936834bc077061412a25d0aa7d1a49c4cdf64d49d2681b3046dc99d7347fec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"14:46:24 - 15:01:59","會議時間":"2024-07-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":186,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（14時46分）主席、各位列席官員，大家好。主席，我想請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：顏委員好。"],["顏委員寬恒：院長好。院長，今天是交通組的總質詢，但是我在開始之前，想要先請院長針對大進滿88號漁船被大陸海警帶回泉州，已經是第3天了，可不可以跟大家報告一下，目前我方的進度如何？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員關心，我們一樣關心人船的安全，事發當時海巡的兄弟們很積極的想去把他營救回來，但是因為進入到對方的海域比較深處，不敢再往前進，所以就在當時進行了這個決定。現在為止，我們正透過包括陸委會、海基會……"],["顏委員寬恒：目前有沒有得到任何的回應？"],["卓院長榮泰：都在跟對方做積極的接洽當中，希望第一個，人船能夠儘速的回來，也希望對方保護安全。"],["顏委員寬恒：人一定要平安的回來，國人的安全不要淪為一個政治的角力。","院長，我來繼續請教，請問院長知不知道臺鐵便當節目前是第幾屆了？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺鐵便當節目前第幾屆……"],["顏委員寬恒：我告訴你，第9屆，也是民營化之後、公司化之後的第1屆，4天入場人數突破40萬，營業額也衝高到1,200萬，大幅的超越預期。臺鐵便當一向都是我們非常喜歡的，也是便當界的首選，像我們今天院會也是吃臺鐵便當，我想裡面相當豐富啦！有雙主菜，甚至於和牛、鰻魚等這些高級食材也有。我想要說的是便當有雙主菜，但是我們臺中海線鐵路雙軌高架到現在還沒有實現，可不可以請院長簡單說明一下，臺中海線鐵路雙軌高架化目前的進度？"],["卓院長榮泰：海線的雙軌，委員關心是從談文到追分這一段……"],["顏委員寬恒：對，再加上大慶跟烏日。"],["卓院長榮泰：另外高架是大慶到烏日這一段。"],["顏委員寬恒：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：目前包括山海線跟捷運藍線一起在做共構的推動，這個計畫目前在進行，在今年的1月已經原則同意了，現在進行到剩下一步的評估當中，請部長說明可以更瞭解。"],["顏委員寬恒：等一下我再請教部長，我大概講一下，因為這個案子已經很多年了，爭取了很多年，過去只有單軌的時代，海線只有單軌，所以不管是快慢車的調度還有實際運作上都有一定的難度，班次少還有搭乘的人次比較少，所以這樣子惡性循環讓很多的旅客還有地方的居民都捨棄臺鐵，尋求其他的交通運輸方式。我們都知道，像交通部長到臺中去考察，我們也一直在討論這些問題，軌道經濟可以帶動地方長遠性的發展，所以臺中鐵路海線雙軌高架的部分跟我們捷運藍線會在沙鹿站交錯，不管是站體的移動還有陸橋的拆除，這些跨機關的規劃，目前都在進行當中。整個海線高架的部分從大甲到沙鹿，大概是10.9公里，另外從沙鹿以南一直到烏日站，這一段是雙軌平面，再來從大慶到烏日高架的部分，現在正在國發會的審理階段。","所以我要藉這個機會跟院長、部長討論，替人民來發聲，因為這個部分確實影響臺中整個海線跟烏日高鐵特區的整體發展。我們希望軌道捷運化能夠落實在整個大臺中市，尤其臺中市已經突破285萬人口，因為平面鐵路會造成兩端發展不均衡的狀態，所以常常我們看到前站、後站的發展都不相同，不管是在成本預算，這些都是重要的考量，人力、原物料等等是會越來越貴，現在物價通膨高漲的時代，所以越早做越便宜。我要請教院長，從大甲一直到烏日站全線高架，能不能作為你任內的目標？"],["李部長孟諺：現階段我們目前的計畫是海線部分是部分高架，另外包括大慶到烏日，因為它延續臺中市高架的部分，可以繼續從大慶延伸，這兩個會列為優先，後面如果要全線高架，可能還要再進一步做可行性的評估。"],["顏委員寬恒：鐵路是國有財產，不管是營收、營運都屬於中央所有，所以過去我們看到從臺中市火車站一直到豐原，整個全線的高架都是由中央專案全額補助。這一次我們看到了烏日到大慶鐵路高架部分，臺中市政府要負擔56%，負擔的比例相當的高，總經費83.4億，要負擔超過四十幾億。","下一張表格，這個部分請看一下，桃園地下化部分，地方只要負擔25%；嘉義的高架化負擔14%，嘉義的延長高架化延伸計畫負擔15%；臺南市地下化部分負擔12.5%；高雄市的部分負擔29%；只有臺中負擔56%，為什麼要負擔這麼高？而且我們現在只提到烏日大慶高架化這個部分八十幾億，如果再加上海線雙軌平面跟雙軌高架的部分，可能要上看七百多億，全部臺中市政府要負擔56%，可不可以請院長跟部長告訴我們，為什麼臺中市自主負擔這麼高？"],["卓院長榮泰：把怎麼樣計算的標準，跟委員說明。"],["李部長孟諺：我簡單做一個說明，現在不管是鐵路高架或者是鐵路地下，立體化的部分，其實除了讓臺鐵在營運上面比較安全之外，另外一個重點就是讓所在的城市彼此之間貫穿鐵路的道路可以縫合，可以沒有平交道，對交通、對市容都有很大的幫助，所以地方政府才會要部分負擔。現在是因為有一個通案性的計算原則，就是有自償的部分，優先由地方政府負擔，非自償的部分，才由中央政府跟地方政府來照比例。這個部分我想是一個全國性通用的原則，可能在自償率的計算還要跟國發會再做討論。"],["顏委員寬恒：這我們不能理解，一樣是直轄市對不對，地下化的預算、費用更高，但是桃園市負擔25%，那為什麼臺中市要負擔56%呢？而且臺中市還是高架喔，不是地下化，地下化更貴喔！這部分沒有一致性，你不能讓我們陷入那一種感覺說你在懲罰好學生，因為臺中市的財政能力比較好，它算是二級，所以要負擔更多、更高。那是不是鼓勵地方政府不應該把自己的財政管理的那麼好？"],["李部長孟諺：它主要還是優先有一個自償啦，具自償性的部分會由地方這邊負擔，另外，非自償的部分才由中央、地方照一定的財政分級比例來處理，這部分因為牽涉到比較詳細的計算，委員，我是不是另外再安排時間跟您說明？主要這個是目前全國通用的計算原則。"],["顏委員寬恒：我接下來再請教海線鐵路雙軌的部分，我們真的要靠中央來支持，因為地方沒有辦法負擔那麼大的預算，尤其是之前前瞻計畫分配不均對臺中人已經是很大的傷害，但臺中市依舊努力為全國創稅，臺中市是全國第二大城市，112年上繳中央的稅款將近2,200億，回配率卻是近10年來最低，只有40%，拿回869億，回配比例不成正比，我們認為不應該讓好學生受到更多的懲罰。","臺鐵大慶到烏日還有烏日到沙鹿的高架化屬於臺中的重大建設，包括捷運藍線，最近橘線也通過了審查會，交通委員會下禮拜還要到臺中考察橘線跟紫線，這麼多的重大建設都在臺中，但臺中必須要負擔那麼高比例的稅，這對臺中市政府來講極為不公平，所以我想請院長跟部長大力的來幫助臺中市，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：7月1號部長也到臺中考察橘線，進行橘線後續的審查程序，原則上應該是朝正面、通過的方向來走，未來關於它的經濟效益跟財務的評估，希望市政府還要提出更詳細的計畫，我想這部分如果是針對地方所需要的，中央依照所有的財務狀況來合作，這應該就是我們未來要走的路。"],["顏委員寬恒：我再提供給你一些參考數據，臺中烏日──就是高鐵特區，最近高鐵娛樂城也正式動工，臺中高鐵站現在是全國第二大站點，每月出入人次的平均量是220萬人次，從觀光局提供的資料，110年整年度到臺中主要各個觀光遊憩據點的統計是3,900萬人；112年度已經突破了5,000萬人次，所以臺中市目前的發展正在快速成長，需要各項交通的升級跟建設，我想請教院長，你同不同意本席的說法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在均衡臺灣的理念之下，各地都應該有地方所需要的實質建設，臺中的地理位置是在臺灣的正中心，而且它又有相當多觀光、科技等等的發展，我覺得健全大臺中地區的交通建設是中央及地方合作的方向。"],["顏委員寬恒：我們跟立法院副院長，還有市長以及各位委員到臺中高鐵特區參加一個動土典禮，我們看到高鐵娛樂城的開發確實會為臺中帶來更大的發展，但是我們也看到高鐵特區附近66%的車流量都是依靠台74線進入高鐵站、高鐵特區，其他部分像圖示上面的，不管是高鐵東路、高鐵路，還有高鐵五路以及站區一路等等，從周邊的道路還有國道一號進來，未來如果讓這個高鐵娛樂城在115年陸續完工，那高鐵每天平日將增加3.1萬人次，假日的時候會增加4.8萬人次，會讓現在高鐵已經飽和的交通服務水準下降，所以我們現在強烈的建議，希望請交通部部長、行政院院長在國道一號增設烏日交流道，也就是在高鐵站周遭，因為它北側是臺中的五權西路交流道，南側是王田交流道，所以這周邊的交流道要優化，還有台74線的匝道優化之外，希望能夠增設烏日交流道在國道一號，這樣子才能有效的紓解整個高鐵特區以及周遭所有的車流，可不可以？"],["李部長孟諺：委員，我跟您報告一下，這個最大的商場上個禮拜剛動工，這應該是目前全國最大的一個商業設施，它的樓地板面積大概有101的四倍大，所以未來一定會為高鐵特定區帶來非常大的人潮；而且我看它的占地面積就有將近15公頃，這麼大的人潮，目前都是靠台74的匝道進入高鐵站，確實可能會讓高鐵特定區這個地方的交通產生很大的衝擊，所以目前鐵道局也跟臺中市合作，市政府大概有700萬的規劃費來檢討整體的交通，看怎麼樣增加匝道或是用其他的方式，各位看一下剛剛那張圖，國道1號剛好在這個地方有個大轉彎，這個大轉彎的區域半徑目前評估起來，如果要增加匝道，就它的技術規範可能會有一些難度，所以我想整個規劃出來比較可行的方案，看是由台74線來接，還是由原來王田交流道這邊做一個分叉來接，總之，我覺得採用技術上可行的方案來做，會比較有一個整體性。"],["顏委員寬恒：因為台74線是屬於我們公路總局的，國道是屬於高速公路局的，兩者都是中央單位，尤其高鐵娛樂城也是我們鐵道局的促參案，這個東西在這個地方、在國道1號要增設烏日交流道，我相信交通部、行政院責無旁貸，讓這個地方的交通建設能夠提升服務品質，也為了要防止未來整個高鐵特區的交通陷入一個非常困難的情況，所以再請部長把相關的資料……"],["李部長孟諺：這是地方一個很好的建設。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，拜託一下，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝顏委員，謝謝院長還有部長。部長，要超前部署，不然你以後回臺中也會塞到。","我們下一位請呂玉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":92,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-21","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅智強","顏寬恒","呂玉玲","游顥","林俊憲","李柏毅","吳秉叡","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","林月琴","黃秀芳","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","林倩綺","李昆澤"],"page_start":26,"meetingDate":["2024-07-05"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00003","1136601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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破了5000萬人次所以臺中市目前的發展正在快速的成長所以需要各項交通的升級跟建設所以我想請教院長你同不同意本席的說法"},{"start":686.778,"end":710.499,"text":"我們在均衡臺灣的理念之下各地都應該有他地方所需要的事實的建設那臺中是在臺灣的正中心的一個地理位置而且他又有相當多比方觀光啦科技等等的發展我覺得健全臺中大臺中地區的交通建設是中央地方合作的方向我們跟立法院副院長還有市長以及各位委員很多"},{"start":711.357,"end":711.377,"text":"﹚顏寬恒﹚"},{"start":738.268,"end":754.411,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":755.146,"end":782.744,"text":"高鐵運作省在115年陸續完工那高鐵每天這個平日將增加3.1萬人次假日的時候會增加4.8萬人次會讓現在高鐵已經飽和的一個交通的服務水準會下降所以我們現在就強烈的建議說希望在請交通部還有這個部長行政院院長"},{"start":783.942,"end":812.897,"text":"在我們國道1號這個偵測烏日交流道,也就是在我們高鐵,高鐵站周遭,因為它北側是這個臺中的五泉西路交流道,南側是這個王田交流道,所以這周邊的交流道要優化,還有台74線的閘道優化之外,希望能夠偵測烏日交流道國道1號,這樣子才能有效的紓解整個高鐵特區以及周遭所有的車流,可不可以?"},{"start":815.095,"end":838.062,"text":"委員我跟你們報告一下就是上個禮拜剛動工的這個最大的商場這個部分應該是全國目前最大的一個商業設施那它的樓地板面積大概有101的4倍這麼大所以未來一定會為高鐵特定區帶來非常大的人潮因為我看到它佔地面積就有將近15公頃"},{"start":838.882,"end":839.322,"text":"因為剛好,如果看剛剛那張圖"},{"start":868.36,"end":892.868,"text":"國道一剛好在這個地方有一個大轉彎那這個大轉彎的趨利半徑目前評估起來如果要增加紮道跟他的規範技術規範會有一些難度所以我想讓整個規劃一個出來比較可行的方案看是由74來接還是由原來王田交流到這邊來做一個分叉來接技術上可行的方案我覺得來做會比較有一個整體性"},{"start":896.25,"end":922.047,"text":"這個74號是屬於我們公路總局的那國道是高速公路局都是中央那尤其高鐵娛樂城它也是我們鐵道局的出產案這個東西在這個地方國道要偵測烏日交流道我相信交通部行政院責務旁帶能夠讓為這個地方的一個交通建設能夠提升服務品質然後呢也為了防止未來整個高鐵特區它的交通"},{"start":924.329,"end":924.789,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝顏委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}