{"error":false,"id":["154586"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154586,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154586","日期":"2024-07-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-09T15:34:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-09T15:50:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/21d04b5a781cb61854b6a7da4377888fa09fb1100d58f4be2199544e32500e6bb62c4ba8584081235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"15:34:54 - 15:50:57","會議時間":"2024-07-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（15時35分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：院長好。非常謝謝院長的引領，讓我有機會進入國會殿堂來服務，替我熱愛的國家跟摯愛的鄉親民眾們略盡一分棉薄之力，我一定會全力以赴。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝王委員，您在癌症方面的專業是全民都景仰的，希望你在這方面多提供政府許多寶貴的意見，我們共同努力。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以今天還是要利用有限的時間來就教院長有關於癌症相關的問題，以及AI醫療未來如何能夠幫助我們臺灣打造一個更好的健康臺灣的機會。我們也知道，在2030年，賴總統很希望能夠把癌症的死亡率可以減低三分之一，意思就是說，以2022年為例的話，希望在未來能讓1萬5,000個癌症病人可以免於癌症的死亡，當然這個是一個很重要、很需要大家一起來努力的目標，所以為了要達到這個目標，也有賴卓院長領導的AI內閣能夠來全力促成。","我們也知道，其實行政院的政務非常地繁忙，為了要推動全國各項的政務，一共設立了45個任務編組，其中有18個是屬於法律相關的要求，另外有27個是屬於依照業務的需要而設立的，其中有一項就是中央癌症防治會報。這一部分依照目前癌症防治法的規定，行政院為了要執行癌症防治政策，要設立中央防治會報，當然由院長來擔任召集人，每一年至少要開會一次，這是目前法律的要求。我們也可以根據現有的任務編組看出，它的法定頻率其實是有非常不一樣的地方，包括以治安會報來看，每兩個月就要召開一次；如果以國家永續發展委員會為例的話，是由國發會擔任幕僚機關，一年需要開會一到兩次，可是為了要因應複雜龐大的工作，工作分組跟專案小組就另外要求每三到六個月要召開一次會議；如果以現有的衛福部相關任務編組來看的話，食品安全會報每三個月一次；可是中央癌症防治會報，我們剛看到了，就是至少一年一次。這一部分請問院長，你知道之前開會的紀錄狀況如何嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：它如果寫一年一次的話，應該不是那麼地……跟其他比較起來，沒有那麼頻繁地開會，但未來我們一定是……因為現在我們在籌辦癌症新藥基金，相關的會議我們在內部是很頻繁地在召開，或許沒有這麼大型的會議，但實質的功能我們要把它發揮出來。"],["王委員正旭：的確，因為癌症對國民健康所造成的危害實在是非常地大，而且對於整個民眾財政的負擔、對國家的財政負擔也非常非常地嚴重，所以我們很期待有更好開會頻率的同時，也能夠加強它的效率。我們可以看一下這個數據，的確，過去這八年多以來，民進黨執政以後，一年真的是開一次會議，而且相關會議在賴總統擔任院長的時候，他是親自主持；陳前院長在擔任院長的時候也是親自主持，因為一個是醫師、一個是公衛的專家，所以他們會對於會報的主持是非常希望能夠達到目標，不知道院長您將來有機會親自來主持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個請委員放心，雖然我本身沒有醫師專業的知識，但是我始終記得，賴總統在競選前後以及當選之後，他一直在思索一個問題，身為一個醫師出身的總統，應該為臺灣多做一些什麼事情，他也用這樣的想法來交付我所有的工作，包括這麼重要的工作，我們在健康臺灣的論壇、後來的深耕計畫，以及現在要提出的癌症新藥等各方面，我們都一一在落實他過去的想法。所以未來這樣重大的會議，我跟委員保證，我一定親自主持，並邀集所有的專家跟與會的所有人來共同商量，尤其我們在癌症新藥基金成立的前後，我想一定會召開這樣的會議。"],["王委員正旭：非常感謝院長。不過，如果我們再從國家永續發展委員會為例的話，我們也知道，其實依照規定它是一年召開一到兩次，可是因為它的任務真的非常非常地繁複龐雜，所以它會設計各種工作的分組跟專案小組來推動，不然像院長在這麼忙碌的情形之下，真的要非常努力地來推動，這個心是一定有的，可是怎麼樣去讓它落實，也要有好的一個模式。如果以這個為例的話，未來在這個架構上面，癌症防治會報應該可以怎麼執行，我們可以根據這樣的方式來瞭解，將來的執行狀況可不可以根據現有的公費癌篩的癌別來做一些分組，讓未來在執行的時候可以更有效率，而且也可以讓這些專家們能夠在提供各種意見的同時，有更好的模式來推展整個癌症的防治？剛剛也有很多委員非常關心癌症防治，尤其在篩檢的部分，這一部分院長可以承諾在召開頻率，還有在各方面的努力，都可以透過這個癌症防治會報架構上的處理，來讓這個工作可以更落實嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。為了讓這個會報更有功能、更有效率，未來一定要朝這個方向做，我想除了邱部長之外，我還會請陳時中政委也發揮他在這方面的專業，我們共同來研議如何將委員所建議的這幾項，或許還有其他的，把它有系統的、歸納性地、有效率地來做各種會議的進行，重要的是之後的執行要由部裡面來負起這個責任，這個我們會督促。"],["王委員正旭：是的，謝謝。因為我們知道，過去其實相關的部門也非常地努力來做一些癌症的篩檢。我們看到的數據就是癌症篩檢的比例，相對來講是30%到50%不等，當然相對其他的國家並沒有比較差，可是如果我們真的希望在2030年要減低癌症死亡率的話，我們的癌篩一定要再努力地加強，不管是在項目的擴編也好，或者是相關條件的放寬也好，都需要專家一起共同來努力。所以針對癌篩的部分，我們希望透過架構上的調整以後，來達到更好的目的。","當然，再過來我們需要關心的就是費用的問題。剛剛游委員也提到，很擔心癌篩費用的經費到底夠不夠，因為我們從這個數據看起來，這個菸捐的確好像也是逐年受到一些影響，明年在編列預算上可能會有一些短缺，這部分院長有沒有什麼更好的方案，可以讓我們這個費用的編列達到相關的目標？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長回答。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝委員對癌症防治的部分一直努力跟關心，我們也都知道，希望2030年我們的癌症死亡率能夠降低三分之一，這是非常遠大的目標，也是非常重要提升國人健康的目標。因為癌症的篩檢，其實不管是在量或者是給付方面，從一開始到現在幾乎都沒有改變，所以要怎麼樣提升，當然我們要從它的年齡層是不是要擴大，還有每一個檢查、篩檢來看，現在所有的成本幾乎都提高了，所以在給付方面也應該要多一點。我們國健署最近也提出了一個整體癌症的癌症健康促進計畫，這個部分我想會一年一年地加強，我也感謝院長的支持，我想我們明年會擴大它的規模，應該會造福更多的民眾。"],["王委員正旭：好，因為根據癌症防治法，其實篩檢的費用主要是來自於菸品健康福利捐，不過其實它裡面也有規定、要求，或者是接受機構、團體之捐助。同樣地，如果將來有機會的話，我們希望有更多的社會善心團體或者是經營企業有成的人士們，針對國家未來在癌症篩檢的部分，也能夠善盡一份的心力，這部分也麻煩院長，有機會的話，可以多鼓勵或者是用其他的方式來引導這些團體，願意把經費能夠挹注進來。"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣的社會一直充滿著愛心，從過去也不乏這個例子，捐助給醫療機構很大筆的研究或是相關的費用，我想未來我們還是需要民間多方的捐助，公私部門通力來合作。"],["王委員正旭：是，那就麻煩院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：再過來就是有關於口腔癌的部分，其實我們知道口腔癌針對很多的勞工朋友，它是很重大的一個議題，因為他們在生活的過程裡面，很有可能會因為工作的需要，而具有這些生活習慣，包括喝酒、嚼食檳榔跟抽香菸，如果有這些習慣的話，他得到口腔癌機會真的是非常非常地高。根據以前葛教授所做的研究，甚至高到123倍，如果3個都有的話；如果是以吃檳榔為例，它會提高到28倍。所以檳榔真的是口腔癌一個重要的因子，對於這些勞工朋友的影響非常非常地大，口腔癌如果能夠篩檢的話，的確它的效果也非常非常地好。","可是我們目前比較關心的就是檳榔入法的狀況，目前針對檳榔的防治，其實只有在兒少法跟學校衛生法裡面，去要求兒童、少年跟高中以下的同學們不能夠嚼食檳榔，其他的部分相對的規範就非常非常地有限。所以未來如何有機會跟菸害防制法一樣，能夠進行好的主管機關規範、管理方式、辦理防制教育跟宣傳等等，院長將來有沒有機會能夠促成這個部分？因為目前對於檳榔是不是一個食品、它的防制機關、未來如何有效納管，還有檳榔防制是不是需要立專法，曾經有一個公聽會，可是公聽會後面在執行上它還是很難落實。","其實我們也知道菸害防制法並不是要讓民眾不抽香菸這麼簡單，因為完全能夠禁絕是很困難的，我們希望是一個良好的管制，所以如果能夠比照相關在菸品上加註警語，或者是對於檳榔產製的販售有一些基本的衛生管理，這個是由哪一個主管機關來管理？院長，這部分可不可以有更好的指示來讓相關單位可以辦理？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個工作我們一直很審慎地在進行，因為要考慮過去到現在很多農民他們自己在從事生計上的問題。但是從108年開始，我們也持續對於檳榔廢園跟轉作做了相當多的努力，目前執行的有658公頃的轉作，現在這個計畫還繼續在執行當中，會進行到2026年，希望能夠逐步地減少這樣的農作面積，讓它產生的後遺症降低，同時也取締這些非法進口，讓它不會危害到大家的健康。但是現行要檢討檳榔危害防制管理與法規上尚有不足的地方，我們還要再進一步的研議，不過剛剛講的廢園轉作的作業方案，還是持續在進行當中。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝，那……"],["卓院長榮泰：部長要補充。"],["邱部長泰源：我補充一下，站在衛福部的立場，我們關心它對健康的危害，繼續盤點及精進檳榔危害管理的規範，所以我們一直在盤點國內外檳榔衛生安全及包裝標示的這些規範，特別針對孕婦、兒童、青少年等脆弱的族群，就公共衛生及法律的層面，我們綜合來評估研議，朝向也許是有檳榔危害防制專法管制的可行性。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。在有限的時間，就麻煩院長針對AI智慧醫療，尤其是如何能夠打造AI醫療國家隊，能夠去成就主權AI雲，未來變成另外一座的護國神山，這部分不知道院長有沒有哪一方面的指示，可以讓整個團隊可以運作得更為順暢，不只是衛福部主管機關而已，還包括其他的相關部門、相關部會一起來促成這樣的工作？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們一起在健康臺灣的論壇當中提出最終幾項結論，在深耕計畫當中，不管是健保制度的維護以及AI精準醫療這個工作，都是未來工作的重點，我們一起來工作、一起來努力。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。"],["王委員正旭：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝卓院長。","下一位我們請林淑芬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-21","speakers":["江啟臣","王定宇","黃國昌","羅明才","吳琪銘","葉元之","邱若華","楊曜","羅智強","黃健豪","盧縣一","蘇清泉","林國成","李昆澤","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","林月琴","游顥","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉"],"page_start":93,"meetingDate":["2024-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00005","1136601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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有更好的開會頻率的同時也能夠加強它的效率我們可以看一下這個數據的確過去這8年多以來民政黨民進黨執政以後一年真的是開一次會議而且相關的會議在"},{"start":280.954,"end":303.545,"text":"賴總統擔任院長的時候他是親自主持。全城院長他在擔任這個院長的時候他也是親自主持。一個是醫師一個是這個公衛的專家所以他們會對於這個會報的主持是非常的希望能夠達到他的目標。那不知道院長您將來有機會會來親自主持嗎?"},{"start":307.422,"end":322.198,"text":"這個請委員放心雖然我本身沒有醫師的專業的知識但是我始終記得賴總統在競選的前後以及當選之後他一直在思索一個問題身為一個醫師出身的總統應該為台灣多做一些什麼事情"},{"start":322.739,"end":348.611,"text":"他也用這樣的想法來交付我所有的工作所以包括這麼重要的工作我們在健康台灣的論壇以後來的深耕計畫以及現在要提出的癌症新藥各種方面我們都一一在落實他過去的想法所以未來這樣重大的會議我跟委員表示我會保證我一定親自主持邀請所有的專家跟與會的所有人來共同商量尤其我們在癌症新藥基金成立的前後我想一定會召開這樣的會議"},{"start":350.438,"end":369.479,"text":"非常感謝院長。不過如果我們再從這個國家永續發展委員會為例的話,剛剛我們也知道他其實依照規定是一年召開一到兩次,可是因為他的任務真的非常非常的繁複、龐雜,所以呢他會設計的各種工作的分組跟專案的小組,"},{"start":369.94,"end":369.98,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":397.591,"end":424.583,"text":"此行狀況可不可以根據現有的公費、癌篩的癌別來做一些分組。未來在執行的時候可以更有效率而且可以讓這些專家們能夠發揮他在提供各種意見的同時更有好的模式來推展整個癌症的防治。剛剛也有很多委員非常關心有關於癌症防治尤其在篩檢的部分那這部分"},{"start":426.189,"end":452.001,"text":"院長您可以承諾在召開評慮還有在各方面的努力都可以有透過這個癌症防治匯報架構上的處理來讓這個工作可以更落實嗎?謝謝讓這個會議更有功能更有效率這未來一定要朝這個方向做我想除了邱部長之外我還會請陳時中政委也發揮他在這方面的這個專業我們共同來研力如何將"},{"start":452.921,"end":464.676,"text":"委員所建議的這幾項或許還有其他的把它有系統的規納性的有效率的來做各種會議的進行重要的是之後的執行要有部裡面來負起這個責任這個我們會督促"},{"start":466.883,"end":480.357,"text":"是的,謝謝。因為我們知道過去其實相關的部門也非常的努力來做一些癌症的篩檢。那我們看到的數據就是癌症篩檢的比例相對來講是到30%到50%不等。"},{"start":483.905,"end":483.925,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":501.323,"end":501.343,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":518.163,"end":546.979,"text":"再過來我們需要關心的就是費用的問題。剛剛有委員也提到這個很擔心這個癌篩費用的經費到底夠不夠。因為我們從這個數據看起來這個菸捐的確相對也是逐年好像受到一些影響。那明年在編列預算上可能會有一些短缺。那這部分院長有沒有什麼更好的方案可以來讓我們這個費用的編列可以達到相關的目標。"},{"start":550.281,"end":566.994,"text":"謝謝委員對癌症防治的一直努力跟關心。那我們也都知道希望2030年我們的癌症死亡率能夠降低三分之一,這是非常遠大的目標,但是是非常重要的國人健康的目標。那我們"},{"start":569.741,"end":598.517,"text":"因為這個癌症的篩檢其實不管是在量或者是它幾乎方面都從一開始到現在幾乎都沒有改變所以如何要怎麼樣提升當然我們要從它的年齡層是不是要擴大還有每一個檢查篩檢現在所有的成本幾乎都提高了所以在幾乎方面也應該要多一點那我們這樣子國健署最近也提出一個整體的癌症的"},{"start":599.189,"end":599.209,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":617.045,"end":633.526,"text":"好,那一個根據癌症防治法,其實這個篩檢的費用主要是來自於原品健康福利捐,不過其實它裡面也有規定,或者是也有要求,或者是接受機構團體之捐助,這同樣的"},{"start":634.767,"end":658.218,"text":"如果將來有機會的話我們希望有更多的社會的善心團體或者是一些經營企業有成的這些人士們能不能夠針對這個國家未來在癌症篩檢的部分也能夠善盡一份的心力。那這部分也麻煩院長有機會的話可以多鼓勵或者是用其他的方式來引導這些團體願意把經費能夠挹注進來。"},{"start":662.02,"end":675.389,"text":"台灣的社會一直充滿愛心,從過去也不乏這個例子,捐助給醫療機構很大筆的研究或是相關的費用。我想未來我們還是需要民間多方的捐助,公私部門通力來合作。"},{"start":679.226,"end":695.654,"text":"議員長,再過來就是有關你口腔癌的部分。其實我們知道口腔癌針對很多的勞工朋友他是一個很重大的一個議題。因為他們在生活的過程裡面很有可能會因為這個工作的需要而具有這些生活習慣,包括喝酒。"},{"start":696.883,"end":725.379,"text":"還有嚼食檳榔跟抽香菸齁那如果有這些習慣的話他得到口腔癌機會真的是非常非常的高以前葛教授所做的研究甚至高到123倍如果三個都有的話如果是以吃檳榔為例他會提高到28倍所以檳榔真的是一個口腔癌一個重要的因子他對於這個這些勞工朋友的影響非常非常的大那對於口腔癌如果能夠篩檢的話的確他的效果也非常非常的好"},{"start":726.693,"end":749.31,"text":"可是我們目前比較關心的就是檳榔入法的狀況目前針對檳榔的防治其實只有在兒少法跟學校衛生法裡面去要求兒童少年跟高中年級以下的這些同學們不能夠絞食檳榔其他的部分相對規範就非常非常的有限"},{"start":750.111,"end":750.131,"text":"﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":769.65,"end":788.422,"text":"﹚國會議員"},{"start":788.742,"end":814.38,"text":"並不是要讓民眾不抽香煙這麼簡單,因為這是很困難完全能夠進絕的,我們希望是一個良好的管制,所以如果能夠比照相關在煙品上加注檢語或者是對於檳榔產製的販售,有一些基本的衛生管理,那這個是由哪一個主管機關來管理,院長這部分可不可以有更好的指示來讓相關單位可以辦理。"},{"start":815.641,"end":833.325,"text":"報告委員這個工作我們一直很審慎的在進行因為要考慮到過去到現在很多農民他們自己在從事生技上的問題但是從108年開始我們也持續對於檳榔廢園跟轉座做了相當多的努力目前執行了有658公頃的轉座那現在這個計畫還繼續在執行當中會進行到2026年那希望能夠"},{"start":841.923,"end":865.891,"text":"逐步的減少這樣的一個籠座的面積那讓他的產生的後遺症可能降低同時也取締這些非法進口的讓他不會危害到大家的健康所以但是現行要檢討檳榔危害防治管理與法規上上有不足的地方我們還要再進一步的研擬但是剛剛講的那個肺炎去轉座的作業方案還是持續在進行當中"},{"start":867.017,"end":893.935,"text":"是,好,謝謝。部部長再補充。我補充一下,我們繼續站在衛福部的立場,我們關心這個對他的健康的危害,所以我們繼續盤點及精進病人危害管理的規範。所以我們一直在盤點國內外病人衛生安全及包装、包製的這些規範,特別針對孕婦、兒童、青少年等脆弱的族群,就公共衛生及法律的層面,"},{"start":894.554,"end":917.501,"text":"我們綜合來評估研議,朝向也許是有檳榔危害防治專法管制的可行性。好,謝謝。那在有限的時間就麻煩院長針對於這個AI智慧醫療,尤其是如何能夠打造這個國家隊的AI能夠去成就"},{"start":918.061,"end":918.822,"text":"謝謝委員我們一起在健康臺灣"},{"start":953.601,"end":961.514,"text":"好,謝謝王委員好,謝謝左院長下一位我們請林淑芬委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}