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09:46:35","會議時間":"2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【7月8日及10日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":122,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（9時35分）主席，各位列席官員。主席，我想先請央行楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：顏委員早。"],["顏委員寬恒：總裁早。CBDC就是數位版的國家貨幣，就是由中央銀行創建一種數位形式的法定貨幣，透過發行跟流通，相較於我們習慣以紙鈔或者硬幣的方式進行交易。我想數位貨幣不僅僅只是對傳統貨幣的一種技術革新，也是一種對貨幣體系本質的重新思考，但是民眾現在對於數位貨幣有很大的距離感，甚至於懷疑這是不是又是一種詐騙的手法。因為我們臺灣所處的環境，在國際上，臺灣變成是一個詐騙手法輸出的國度，實在是很不好！"],["楊總裁金龍：委員說得很好。"],["顏委員寬恒：請教楊總裁，你認為發行數位貨幣的動機跟目標是什麼？有兩個重點，就是我們是不是能夠降低金融交易的成本、民眾的成本？提升金融體系的安全性跟穩定性，就是這兩個部分。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，這個就是我們的目標啦！當然CBDC要朝這個方向來走，這個就是我們的目標，第一個要好用，第二個要能夠降低成本，第三個能夠增加創新，這是我們的目標。當然這個目標要達成，恐怕也要花一點時間，包括剛剛委員講得很好，大家的認知也不是很清楚，而且恐怕這又是一個詐騙的工具，這個都是我們必須要去溝通的。"],["顏委員寬恒：要透過說明溝通，讓民眾能夠深切瞭解。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員說得沒有錯。"],["顏委員寬恒：再提到的就是你正在跟數位部洽談合作，政府機關開發數位券，現在基本上都已經萬事俱備，你們評估的結果是什麼時候要發行？"],["楊總裁金龍：我是不是請我的同事來回答這個問題，可以嗎？"],["顏委員寬恒：好，儘快。"],["謝參事鳳瑛：向委員報告，目前我們跟數發部洽談合作的計畫，原則上如果整個行程順利的話，應該是在今年底或明年初可能會請數發部找一個相關的部門先試營運。"],["顏委員寬恒：今年底？"],["謝參事鳳瑛：或明年初。"],["顏委員寬恒：好。我再請教總裁，你說CBDC不是國際競賽，也不是先發就有優勢。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["顏委員寬恒：但是你也提到沒有時間表，那你可不可以更明確一點，你的報告是要告訴我們什麼？CBDC什麼時候在臺灣可以上路？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想是這樣，CBDC在全球其他國家也都是在試驗，當然臺灣在做這樣一個試驗工程的時候，我們也要看看其他國家是不是比較先進，有哪些我們可以學習的，CBDC到最後那個part──wholesale，就是在批發型那個部分的功能會更大，這個就要看國際發展的趨勢怎麼樣，因為到時候會cross-border，就是區域跨境交換，這個也要看看國際發展的趨勢是怎麼樣。所以發展並不是自己做自己的，外面好像也沒有進展的時候，自己做、自己在那邊試驗，好像功能也不是很好，我們也要來看看國際發展的……"],["顏委員寬恒：所以央行未來是不是要花費更多的錢、更多的預算做大量的技術跟人力的投入才有辦法？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個技術大概也是要花錢。"],["顏委員寬恒：有沒有預計要花多少錢？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個請我同事來說明。"],["謝參事鳳瑛：因為我們目前在試驗階段，所以我們儘量利用現有的資源，不要浪費資源，原則上目前為止我們……"],["顏委員寬恒：一年要花多少？你能不能告訴我們一年要花多少？"],["謝參事鳳瑛：現在在試驗階段，我們現在除了央行本身這個部分之外，其他都是善用財金公司目前的試驗環境跟試驗設備，請財金公司說明一下。"],["顏委員寬恒：不是，應該你要告訴我們，CBDC如果未來上路之後，你的設計，一年需要花多少預算、人力來做整個技術？"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員，現在到目前還沒有做這樣很精細的規劃，還沒有！因為還是在試驗的階段，如果說已經確定了就是往前推，那時候整個規模是怎麼樣、每年要編多少預算，都是要按照預算程序下去編的，所以到目前為止都還沒有……"],["顏委員寬恒：所以，總裁，就是現在沒有要推，也沒有要做啦？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，現在還是在試驗的階段，所以還沒有到達委員剛才所講的……"],["顏委員寬恒：就沒有要做嘛，所以這個都是多講的啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，因為這個還有一段距離。"],["顏委員寬恒：那我們就提別的，台股上週強勢上漲，現在都在兩萬三千多點、兩萬四千點回盪，美元收盤昨天是32.54，很多專家都研判美國的經濟情勢最近可能會有一個降息，會做這樣子的調整，想要請教總裁，我們央行有沒有預估什麼時候會降息？"],["楊總裁金龍：喔，到目前為止……"],["顏委員寬恒：這個是民眾最關心的，也是租屋族、房貸族最關心的。"],["楊總裁金龍：當然啦！以前我在回答這個問題的時候，我就說我們的情況跟美國的情況不大一樣，但是如果全球都在降息，它spillover外溢到臺灣來，我的意思是我們臺灣的升息、降息都要看國際的情況是怎麼樣，我們臺灣自己內部目前的情況是怎麼樣，然後是由理事會來決定。"],["顏委員寬恒：對啦！你也跟我們比較明確說一下會不會降息嘛，這個是大家……"],["楊總裁金龍：到現在為止都還沒有這樣一個規劃。"],["顏委員寬恒：房貸族壓力非常大欸！"],["楊總裁金龍：當然啦！報告委員，利息的價格影響的層面也不是只有房地產，它也會影響到我們的企業、也會影響到我們個人，這些都會，所以整個利率決策不是只有光看房地產。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，謝謝楊總裁。我們再請金管會主委。"],["主席：有請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["顏委員寬恒：彭主委，你好。金管會的報告裡面說，臺灣為了因應無現金社會的到來，所以朝向2025年要達到行動支付90%的目標，這邊你有提到要成立金融市場創新管理處，臺灣金融科技園區跟馬來西亞金融科技協會簽訂MOU，由馬來西亞的數位經濟局舉辦臺灣金融科技發表日，加速媒合產創的商機，對接當地生態園區的資源，拓展臺灣金融科技海外版圖。請教主委，這項MOU的內容能不能簡單地說明一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這點可不可以請我們綜規處負責規劃的同仁跟委員做個說明？"],["顏委員寬恒：時間拜託一下。"],["胡處長則華：跟委員報告，那個是我們創新園區跟馬來西亞所簽署的，我們這邊沒有掌握他們簽署的內容，我們會後可以再跟他要。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，那資料會後再補充給我。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，我們會再補充資料給委員。"],["顏委員寬恒：金融科技會帶來更高效、更便捷的金融服務，同時也會促進金融市場的競爭跟創新，行動支付、虛擬銀行、P2P、網路借貸等等，除了提供更多的便利跟支持，但是在法規跟監管的部分也必須要更加的謹慎，你認為現行的金融科技發展與創新實驗條例有沒有需要再做調整？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，創新實驗條例分兩部分，一個是扶植金融科技業的部分，這部分我們會持續做，再來就是有關沙盒實驗的部分，因為現在案源比較少，有關裡面的機制設計我們都在檢討中。"],["顏委員寬恒：好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝顏寬恒委員的質詢。","接著我們請吳秉叡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-21","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王世堅","李彥秀","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","賴惠員","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","楊瓊瓔","李坤城"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1137301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭\n主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137301_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":3.8109687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.552218750000002,"end":16.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.74971875,"end":18.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.09971875,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22.57596875,"end":23.250968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.094718750000002,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.735343750000002,"end":28.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.92096875,"end":29.140343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.37596875,"end":36.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.565343750000004,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.57346875,"end":39.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.45096875,"end":45.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.45846875,"end":48.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.73221875,"end":49.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.33971875,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.305343750000006,"end":55.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":55.24596875,"end":55.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.30909375,"end":60.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.494093750000005,"end":63.0253437500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over他"},{"start":427.008,"end":446.296,"text":"他就是說是外溢到臺灣的情況來當然我的意思就是說我們臺灣的一個情況升息降息都要看國際的情況是怎麼樣我們內部我們臺灣目前自己的一個情況是怎麼然後是由理事會來決定到現在為止都還沒有這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":456.332,"end":482.351,"text":"這個房貸族壓力非常大當然我想報告委員就是說利息這個價格它影響的層面也不是只有房地產它也會影響到我們的企業也會影響到我們的個人這些都會所以整個利息的一個利率的決策不是只有光看房地產"},{"start":485.136,"end":485.657,"text":"有請彭主委"},{"start":496.187,"end":520.404,"text":"委員好 彭主任你好那今晚會的報告裡面說台灣為了運營無現金社會的這個到來所以朝向2025年要達到這種行動支付90%的目標啦 對不對那這邊有提到說要成立金融市場管理處創新啦創新管理處"},{"start":521.405,"end":531.521,"text":"那這樣子在金融科技園區臺灣的金融科技園區跟馬來西亞金融科技協會簽訂的末日那由數位"},{"start":533.202,"end":552.573,"text":"馬來西亞數位經濟局舉辦台灣金融科技發表日加速媒合產創的商機對接當地生態園區的資源、拓展台灣金融科技海外版圖請教主委這項MOU的內容能不能時間有限嗎?"},{"start":555.288,"end":574.404,"text":"這裏可不可以請我們那個那個我們負責規劃中規處的同仁跟委員做個說明,謝謝。是跟委員報告那個是我們創新園區跟這個馬來西亞這邊所簽署的我們這邊沒有沒有掌握他們的那個簽署的內容我們會後可以再跟他要"},{"start":574.997,"end":580.423,"text":"金融科技會帶來更高效、更便捷的金融服務同時也會促進金融市場的競爭與創新行動支付、虛擬銀行、P2P、網路借貸等等這些"},{"start":594.958,"end":595.438,"text":"主席彭主席"},{"start":615.864,"end":630.813,"text":"創新實驗條例分兩部分一個是扶植金融科技業的部分我想這部分我們會持續再做再來就是有關沙盒實驗的部分因為現在案源比較少可能在裡面的機制設計我們都在檢討中好的謝謝顏寬恒委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}