{"error":false,"id":["154626"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154626,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154626","日期":"2024-07-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-10T10:50:06+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-10T11:00:54+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f801fd48b85b034263a39103cf15d5982f7bbd1653412844862ed63b081278be015ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:50:06 - 11:00:54","會議時間":"2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【7月8日及10日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":508,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時50分）謝謝主席。我請楊總裁。"],["主席（郭委員國文）：有請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：王委員好！"],["王委員鴻薇：總裁好！今天我們討論有關於我們中央銀行推出數位貨幣的政策、期程，還有現在整個準備的進度，我其實已經看了整個報告，不過我還是要請問總裁，以中央銀行的立場來講，現在我們的CBDC有沒有一個大概可以上路的時間？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們還沒有很明確地去決定我們要什麼時候上路，還沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是我看到其他國家，待會我也會講一下，他們也是在做一些準備……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是他們會宣布比如在2年內來決議要不要做，比如他們是不是2026或2025來決定，告訴大家到底會不會推CBDC，我們可以對外做一個這樣子的，因為這樣子也比較好，這樣子是你們有一個期程啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得這個有好處，但是也有不好的地方，為什麼？因為你如果說2年來決定，到2年要決定的時候，你說你不發行，但是全球都在發行的當中，剛剛我也講了，CBDC很重要的一個功能在它的cross-border，cross-border的時候，也就是要兩個國家之間CBDC可以來互轉……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以……"],["楊總裁金龍：你如果2年以後決定你不發……"],["王委員鴻薇：我不要做，結果別人都在做……"],["楊總裁金龍：對啊！但是大家都在做的時候……"],["王委員鴻薇：總裁，我聽你這樣的講法，就是未來我們會不會做CBDC當然有很多的考慮……"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：其中一個就是它夠不夠國際化……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：如果世界各國主要國家都已經上路了，就算我們央行不願意，但是這個情勢使然，我們也要上車，是這個意思嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：但是我們如果這樣子講的時候，人家又會說中央銀行好像很保守，它是被動的……"],["王委員鴻薇：我有看到剛才李彥秀委員的……"],["楊總裁金龍：人家會做這樣的質疑，所以我們還是說……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你到底是保守……"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有……"],["王委員鴻薇：還是有一點保守？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，我跟委員報告……"],["王委員鴻薇：你很中立。"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，貨幣體系的改革必須要……"],["王委員鴻薇：茲事體大。"],["楊總裁金龍：它是要謹慎的，我只能這麼說。"],["王委員鴻薇：好啦！總裁，所以你認為你並不保守。"],["楊總裁金龍：我不保守。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，但是你會謹慎。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這是你的態度。另外，在你們的報告裡面有提到，你可能會先行做一些試辦，特別提到政府的押標金部分，所以我請問一下，像世界各國也都不會全面性實施，它大概都會選擇一些，就是有所謂的試驗……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：在這個報告裡面特別講到政府的押標金部分，所以未來是不是有可能在這個部分先行試辦？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，反而委員應該要問，我們會不會就數位券的這個部分來做試驗？因為雖然押標金也是一個很好的構想，但是它要有一個前提，它有什麼前提呢？也就是我們商業銀行的存款必須要代幣化，這個工程會比較大，數位券的這個工程比較簡單，所以如果我們要試驗，我們是從這一步踏出去的話，對我們來講，第一個、比較有信心，第二個、比較容易做。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以確實有這樣的一個構想，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是、是。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為世界各國，像美國、英國、歐盟、日本、韓國，確實都有很具體的一些進程，包含中國大陸，他們也開始有一些所謂的試點，包含一般的大眾或者企業，所以我才問我們的試點會不會放在政府的押標金？前不久央行提出有關抑制房價的信用管制措施，可是以最新的即時房價指數，即今年第二季，並跟去年第二季比較，全臺灣的年增率漲幅仍然高達9.5%。也就是說，我們一直要打房，雖然總裁說不是打房，是打炒房，隨便，總之就是要抑制房價，因為這兩年房價實在飆升太多。可是以第二季的數字來說，看起來房價依然在飆升！即便跟前一季，也就是拿今年的第二季與第一季比較，全臺灣的漲幅也高達了4.7%，其中新北市達到6.3%，新竹縣市達到6.8%。我想請教總裁，對於中央銀行所提出來的打房措施，到目前為止，你感到滿意嗎？你感覺到有收到成效嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，中央銀行必須要做我們該做的事情……"],["王委員鴻薇：是。"],["楊總裁金龍：且行政院健全房地產市場方案是各部會所要共同努力的目標。剛剛委員講到房價飆漲，事實上我們看了也都很警惕……"],["王委員鴻薇：有沒有心驚膽跳？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們是很警惕的。但我還是一直強調，房價並不是中央銀行法的經營目標，但是……"],["王委員鴻薇：穩定物價才是你們的目標？"],["楊總裁金龍：不是，而是房價是不是會導致泡沫，進而讓我們的金融業、銀行業因房價下跌後沒辦法承受相關損失，導致影響到金融穩定……"],["王委員鴻薇：總裁，你講的我一半同意，一半不同意。同意的部分，沒有錯，其實我們有很多政策可用，並非只有央行的信用管制措施才能收到成效。比如新青安，現在幾乎可以確定新青安就是這兩年助長房價非常重要的推手，讓我們非常擔心五年之後會出現問題。我昨天聽說某個企業的新婚員工夫妻，老婆以新青安貸了房子，先生說感覺好便宜，所以先生也趕快再去貸了新青安。明明他們只要買一棟房，結果卻因為新青安讓他們可以再去投資另一棟房，可見新青安確實有問題，不過現在新青安也在做整頓。另外像房地合一稅，鑑於當時的炒房，所以希望大家不要轉手太過頻繁，後來發生什麼狀況？飆得最兇的都是新建案，因為五年以內的房子不會釋出，畢竟稅實在太重了，導致新建案飆升。我們常常在講，這就像防水一樣，把這條堵住了，但水就是這麼多，所以我其實某個程度同意召委剛才所講的，錢就是這麼多，你這裡堵住了，它就往另外一個水道去，導致整個漲起來，可見裡面確實有很多問題。如果今天中央銀行採取這麼多措施，但我們仍然看到房價指數繼續飆升，大家就會認為政府打房是打假的，是不是還不夠力？即便有打出來，也恐怕沒有對症下藥。現在央行降低有些區域的第二間房的貸款成數，所以我們接到很多陳情，不是建商告買房的人、就是買房的人告建商，彼此互告。因為買房時不曉得貸款成數會變得這麼低，所以我當時跟央行協調。這個措施我支持，但是實施點要考慮，畢竟買房子時並不知道貸款成數會降得那麼低，結果現在在現場第一線產生了很多的困擾及爭議。","我剩最後一點時間，我覺得很重要的是，日元貶值，到目前我等了老半天只有1家車商，我也不要幫它做廣告，我覺得它本來就應該降價，但是它至少降價開第一槍。日系產品沒有人降價耶！怎麼會這樣？以前起碼要喝咖啡呀。我也公開喊話：「經濟部，你趕快去請這些廠商喝咖啡」，咖啡錢我來出，沒有問題。怎麼會這樣子？日元都已經貶到地板上了，結果我們所有的家電、女生的化粧品、家用用品、服飾，給我講一些有的、沒有的理由，就是不肯降價，很不合理，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：嗯。"],["王委員鴻薇：我上次也有問過總裁，總裁很關心這個事情。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：你可不可以跟經濟部部長講一下，怎麼會這樣子呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：好，我也覺得它是不合理的。"],["王委員鴻薇：很不合理嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，我也覺得不合理。"],["王委員鴻薇：你會不會跟經濟部部長講？"],["楊總裁金龍：好，我來跟他溝通一下。"],["王委員鴻薇：你要跟他講喔，好不好？"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。我們休息10分鐘。","休息（11時）","繼續開會（11時11分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接著請葛如鈞委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-21","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王世堅","李彥秀","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","賴惠員","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","楊瓊瓔","李坤城"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1137301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭\n主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137301_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.50346875,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.45659375,"end":4.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.83096875,"end":11.556593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.906593750000003,"end":15.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.73346875,"end":28.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.70721875,"end":20.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.02659375,"end":28.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.34721875,"end":41.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.25784375,"end":33.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.10034375,"end":48.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.002218750000004,"end":51.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.820343750000006,"end":51.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.90471875,"end":52.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.056593750000005,"end":52.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.64721875,"end":79.005968750000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