{"error":false,"id":["154709"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154709,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154709","日期":"2024-07-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-28","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":28,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-11T10:18:37+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-11T10:25:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/90adb50f95b06db905bde1ba2c579a5a398a8850000c6975ab2d837d11fc3fab720e17fc406f2b395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:18:37 - 10:25:20","會議時間":"2024-07-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查國民黨黨團擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條之二及第三十八條之三條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":221,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時18分）謝謝，我們有請……"],["主席：抱歉，柏毅委員，我們的部長要先行離開。"],["李委員柏毅：好，我們有請部長先去協商。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：請次長，還有地政司王司長。"],["主席：我們有請次長、地政司王司長，謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：次長跟我是舊識，我也可以好好跟你討論一下，未來租金要朝透明化的方向走，這個大家其實都同意。"],["董次長建宏：是，謝謝委員指教！"],["李委員柏毅：但是怎麼走，可以讓租金對所有承租人來講是穩定的，出租人跟承租人的關係是和諧的，這個是我們要朝向透明化的過程裡面希望有的過程，而不是變成我們要把這個透明化或者是申請租金補貼的這個過程，造成房客跟房東之間緊張跟對立的關係。內政部有一個租金補貼的政策，其實讓大部分的人都很滿意，而且關於申請租金補貼，我之前也垂詢過林右昌部長，租金補貼大部分的人申請得到，但是最有糾紛的地方在哪裡？可能有糾紛的地方在哪裡？第一個就是租金無法申報扣除所得，第二個所有的房東都很擔心，在契約加註不得申請租金補貼，因為房東怕被課稅。所以我要請司長說明一下住宅法第三條、第十五條及第十六條的內容，司長，你可以說明一下這個內容嗎？"],["董次長建宏：我們請……"],["李委員柏毅：沒關係，讓司長講，用他的觀點講。"],["王司長成機：住宅法裡面剛剛委員提到的那3條，其實主要的部分，就是去年通過施行的住宅法，裡面很重要的一點就是，領取租金補貼的這些資料不得作為課稅的依據，這3條的重點在這裡。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝司長，我聽懂，但是你這樣講大部分的人沒聽懂。其實它就是說，即使房客有申請租金補貼，但是依照住宅法第三條、第十五條及第十六條，它是排除稅捐稽徵法第二十一條，不能作為追稅房東的依據。"],["王司長成機：對。"],["李委員柏毅：但是房東還是會害怕，如果我們執行租金全部實價登錄，那房東不是怕死了？第一個，如果真的房子很多的人，那麼我房子不租了、不租給人家了，供給量少了，租金就上來了。第二個，如果真的每一戶實價登錄以後，這一棟大樓每一戶都漲價，因為有一戶裝潢比較好嘛，15樓租3萬，20樓怎麼可能租3萬以下？會有這個心理，可能會造成更多的租金波動。所以……"],["董次長建宏：定錨的效果。"],["李委員柏毅：基於房租穩定來講，其實我們是主張要部分公布、區塊的公布，比如說美術館區、巨蛋區，如果是3房的大概是多少錢、它的屋齡大概是多少，或是這一條路上、捷運站附近的大概是多少。"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["李委員柏毅：如果用一棟大樓的每一戶來比較，確實會造成一些問題，所以今天的修法其實我覺得立意良善，但是這個過程裡面，我們希望它可以處理得讓租屋市場的糾紛減少，讓這個修法的討論可以實際上嘉惠到所有租屋人。我們其實也做了租屋電費新制，但還是有一些問題，這邊我想要再就教，從今年7月4號內政部自己整理用電度數等等問題，如果以舊制來講，這個租屋合約走到一半，而房東不願意採取新的制度，內政部其實也應該要有一個救濟的方式，比如說我們現在遇到租屋有糾紛的時候去找誰？去找消保官，我其實一直想建議內政部，遇到租屋有糾紛的時候，既然我們有租屋補貼，內政部是不是有一個專責的單位出來協調這個租屋的糾紛，包含電費，我們公布實施之後，如果這個合約、契約是在進行當中，房東不願意更改，那我們要怎麼樣去保護承租人？還有剛剛所講的，如果我們要公布區域性的租金的話，我們要怎麼樣維持房價的穩定？這些都需要內政部做第一線，而不是讓地方政府的消保官去處理，請次長做一個簡單的回應。"],["董次長建宏：有關於舊契約的部分，我們當然不溯及既往，但是房東跟房客其實是可以討論，他們如果希望……"],["李委員柏毅：希望內政部可以介入協助，不是交給消保官。"],["董次長建宏：我們會去宣布，我們也有一些法扶的協助。"],["李委員柏毅：是不是可以公布一個專責的單位，讓租客遇到這些問題的時候可以協助他們。"],["董次長建宏：有，地方地政局還有我們一些法扶的單位，我們都會協助介入，讓更多的人可以知道這些相關的訊息。"],["李委員柏毅：這個請給我一個書面，我們持續來追蹤這個問題，謝謝！"],["董次長建宏：沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員，謝謝次長及司長。","繼續我們請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-28","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","許宇甄","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","吳琪銘","黃捷","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","丁學忠","麥玉珍","張智倫","黃建賓","洪申翰","鄭天財Sra 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