{"error":false,"id":["154721"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154721,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154721","日期":"2024-07-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-28","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":28,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-07-11T11:25:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-07-11T11:32:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/90adb50f95b06db93c1bff72cecece64398a8850000c6975ab2d837d11fc3fabfa85456fcb5f641e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:25:39 - 11:32:40","會議時間":"2024-07-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查國民黨黨團擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條之二及第三十八條之三條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":483,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（11時25分）主席、與會同仁。請內政部次長。"],["主席：有請董次長。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：次長好。今天審查租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例修正草案，感謝召委排審。鑑於政府推出新青安政策，我們也都知道賴總統承諾八年要蓋25萬戶社會住宅，畢竟社會住宅需求非常高，但抽籤率偏低，差不多兩成，對一些年輕人或沒有房子的人來說，居住正義是政府要去推動的。大家都知道都會區房價過高，讓年輕人買不起，也因此政府極力推動社會住宅的政策絕對是對的。現在本席比較關心的是，針對新青安政策對年輕人的補助，還有土地的取得，因為現在很多公有地……本席是新北市選出來的，我們知道，在新北市找土地的唯一方法就是找公家土地，這樣速度最快。很多土地還是需要中央與地方合作，否則要達到25萬戶，說真的，要是不跟地方合作的話，可能沒有辦法達成目標。是不是請次長說明，目前在新北市，或以都會區為例，未來打算在新北市規劃推動的有哪幾處？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，在未來整體開發過程裡，由我們直接興建的社宅，因為社宅政策包括包租代管、包括租金補貼跟直接興建，而直接興建的部分是委員比較關心的。我們未來會透過整體開發的方式，包括市地重劃跟區段徵收，希望能夠有3%到5%的社宅土地提供，這部分奉行政院核定後我們就會實施。","至於新北市的部分，請國宅組的同仁說明一下。"],["張專門委員渝欣：委員好。在新北市的部分，像111年核定目標是3萬3,000戶，目前已經達成20,331戶，其中中央的部分是1萬2,000多戶，新北市政府大概推動了8,000多戶。誠如次長所說，後續我們會針對這些整開地區請他們提供3%到5%的土地，供中央繼續推動後面13萬戶的社宅興辦。以上報告。"],["吳委員琪銘：若以重劃區的5%來說，像新北市新莊重劃區塭仔圳，面積那麼大，有沒有辦法從中取得5%的土地？"],["董次長建宏：我們已經跟新北市在進行討論當中，我們也希望透過跟新北市的協商，能找到這5%左右的土地，而新北市政府現在也承諾會跟我們進行討論。"],["吳委員琪銘：絕對沒問題吧？"],["董次長建宏：我們就陸續……"],["吳委員琪銘：新莊塭仔圳的土地有好幾百公頃，而大柑園也有好幾百公頃，要是能取得5%的土地，這樣速度才會快，所以一定要跟地方政府做協調。"],["董次長建宏：對，我們會跟地方政府合作。"],["吳委員琪銘：這是在創造雙贏，相信新北市也會同意，畢竟新北市有很多年輕人。你認為現在一間房子一坪要多少錢？我想聽聽你們的說法看你們準不準，就以我們土城為例。"],["王司長成機：不同區域的行情都不一樣。"],["吳委員琪銘：對，以土城來說，現在在新北市已經上看70萬了，請問年輕人要怎樣去買房子？所以唯一的方法就是蓋社宅，來滿足這些年輕人，滿足一些沒辦法購屋的人，不然未來會產生很多問題。要在都會區裡生存，要租房子，即使有包租代管，但其實所訂出來的租金也過高。一般基層勞動階級的人根本受不了我們所定出的租金價格，也讓政府的美意消失了。政府應該要照顧弱勢，照顧這些經濟能力比較沒有那麼強的，這樣才有意義。未來是不是朝這個方向去努力？當然我也要拜託地政司要跟國產署統籌，把公有的地拿來蓋社宅。公有土地不要賣，也不要出租，唯一的用途就是蓋社宅滿足年輕人的需要，是不是朝這個方向努力？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，相關的土地盤點，行政院現在已經召集各部會在進行，我們也是朝委員講的方向去做，而且我們不僅盤點公有土地，也感謝財政部國產署幫我們很大的忙，其他還包括各部會、相關國公營事業的房舍或土地能夠使用的；包括本部相關的官舍，比方警察局、消防局的官舍，我們會依據相關的方式在重建過程中增加社宅容量，這樣一方面可以照顧我們的同仁，一方面也讓更多的年輕人可以居住在一個比較合理跟安全的地方。"],["吳委員琪銘：對，這就是我們未來的目標，一定要朝這個方向去做，好不好？這是地方上的需求，兩成中籤的比例真的不高！"],["董次長建宏：是，我們會增加。"],["吳委員琪銘：謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝吳琪銘召委，謝謝董次長、司長。","繼續我們請牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-28","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","許宇甄","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","吳琪銘","黃捷","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","丁學忠","麥玉珍","張智倫","黃建賓","洪申翰","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-07-11"],"gazette_id":"1137401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查國民黨黨團擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條之二及第三十\n八條之三條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第\n三十四條、第三十八條及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137401_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.25846875,"end":3.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.4397187500000004,"end":3.9797187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.60846875,"end":12.552218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.88971875,"end":17.496593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.07034375,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.28096875,"end":25.984718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.54159375,"end":27.874718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.53284375,"end":30.878468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.300343750000003,"end":33.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.73034375,"end":35.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.94096875,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.354093750000004,"end":38.674718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.91096875,"end":40.244093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.58159375,"end":43.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.361593750000004,"end":47.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.057218750000004,"end":50.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.689718750000004,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.49534375,"end":53.102843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.406593750000006,"end":54.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.992843750000006,"end":56.477843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.64659375,"end":59.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.70096875,"end":60.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.76409375,"end":63.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.73409375000001,"end":65.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.18096875,"end":69.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.11284375000001,"end":71.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.59784375000001,"end":74.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.22596875,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.76596875,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.48284375,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.37284375,"end":80.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.41909375,"end":83.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.23721875000001,"end":85.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.14409375000001,"end":89.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.02534375,"end":92.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.97846875,"end":95.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.25221875000001,"end":99.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.67784375000001,"end":100.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.75784375,"end":102.81659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.23846875000001,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.57159375,"end":105.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.05659375,"end":109.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.51596875000001,"end":113.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.58284375000001,"end":115.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.96221875,"end":123.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.31971875,"end":132.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.02284375000002,"end":148.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.36221875,"end":148.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.46346875,"end":148.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.94846875000002,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.29721875,"end":162.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.97596875000002,"end":164.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.91659375,"end":166.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.70534375,"end":167.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.63346875000002,"end":168.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.54471875000002,"end":172.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.64534375000002,"end":187.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.79909375000003,"end":190.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.54971875,"end":200.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.10159375,"end":196.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.47221875000002,"end":207.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.46346875,"end":203.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.07096875000002,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.18909375,"end":203.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.35784375,"end":204.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.15034375000002,"end":210.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.46221875,"end":218.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.91659375,"end":221.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.10596875000002,"end":222.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.96659375000002,"end":226.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.82284375,"end":231.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.71284375000002,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.08409375000002,"end":227.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.67409375000003,"end":233.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.73284375000003,"end":236.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.47909375,"end":240.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.43221875,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.42346875,"end":245.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.55846875,"end":242.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.80284375000002,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.06846875000002,"end":256.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.70909375000002,"end":250.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.45909375,"end":257.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.25221875,"end":264.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.23471875,"end":262.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.93034375,"end":266.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.84159375,"end":268.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.98471875,"end":274.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.57534375,"end":269.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.09346875,"end":277.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.21534375000005,"end":279.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.13909375000003,"end":280.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.43846875,"end":283.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.42971875,"end":286.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.60221875,"end":286.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.91846875000005,"end":289.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.67346875000004,"end":298.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.24596875000003,"end":302.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.30846875000003,"end":305.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.26159375000003,"end":308.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.01221875000005,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.69971875000005,"end":312.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.55596875000003,"end":314.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.05346875000004,"end":316.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.58909375,"end":318.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.66471875,"end":321.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.21721875000003,"end":320.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.55034375,"end":323.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.81159375000004,"end":326.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.49471875,"end":327.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.50284375,"end":330.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.86534375,"end":332.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.50221875,"end":334.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.94909375000003,"end":336.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.49721875,"end":339.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.36596875000004,"end":341.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.47971875,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.77909375,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.53409375,"end":346.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.03159375,"end":348.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.00596875,"end":351.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.26721875000004,"end":352.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.93784375,"end":355.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.98846875000004,"end":353.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.18659375000004,"end":397.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.12909375000004,"end":399.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.91784375000003,"end":408.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.18659375000004,"end":412.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.00034375,"end":412.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.01721875000004,"end":412.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.03409375,"end":412.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.52346875,"end":412.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.57409375000003,"end":412.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.87784375,"end":412.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.94534375,"end":412.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.96221875000003,"end":413.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.11409375000005,"end":415.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.40096875,"end":414.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.47221875,"end":421.58534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.521,"end":27.513,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之"},{"start":28.593,"end":54.031,"text":"因為社會住宅的需求需求量都非常的高尤其抽籤率的比例都還是偏低就差不多兩成那對一些年輕人對一些沒有房子的居住爭議這是我們政府要去推動那大家都知道我們在都會區裡面的房子房價都過高"},{"start":55.293,"end":69.29,"text":"讓年輕人也買不起那我們政府極力的推動社會住宅這政策是絕對是對的啦那現在本席比較關心的我們針對我們的新清安年輕人的補助"},{"start":70.131,"end":95.906,"text":"二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具:「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及"},{"start":96.326,"end":114.646,"text":"真的你要是沒有跟地方來合作的話可能這個目標是沒辦法去達成那是不是處長請你來說明在我們新北市以都會區為例你在新北市目前規劃有哪幾處我們未來要推動的"},{"start":115.964,"end":138.873,"text":"好,那先跟委員報告,我們在未來整個整體開發的過程裡面呢,我們直接興建的社宅,直接興建的社宅,因為社宅政策包括包租貸款,包括租金補貼跟直接興建。直接興建的部分委員比較關心的,那我們未來會用透過整體開發的方式,包括市地重劃跟區段徵收的過程裡面,我們也希望能夠提供3到5%的社宅的土地的提供。"},{"start":139.353,"end":165.558,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之"},{"start":168.689,"end":173.831,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條之三條文修正草案案。二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具"},{"start":187.827,"end":190.149,"text":"我請問你現在說那個重劃裡面的5%那我舉例我們那個新北市我們的那個新莊重劃區溫拉準溫拉準他面積那麼大那5%他這個土地有沒有辦法取得"},{"start":210.507,"end":229.315,"text":"我們已經跟新北市在進行討論當中那我們也希望透過那個跟新北市的協商找到這5%的左右的土地那新北市政府現在承諾跟我們進行討論那這堆沒問題吧?我們就陸續我們持續討論中因為新壯那邊那邊的土地好幾百公頃那未來包含我們的大甘嶺大甘嶺大甘嶺這個地方也好幾百公頃那你要是能取得5%的話"},{"start":240.578,"end":268.377,"text":"我們這速度才會快這一定要跟地方政府來做協調我們會跟地方政府合作因為這是創造雙贏啦相信新北市他也會同意啦因為畢竟新北市很多年輕人大家要取得現在要去購買一間房子大家都知道你一坪差不多多少錢以你們我看你們準不準以我們土層好了啦不同區域的那個行情"},{"start":269.025,"end":269.946,"text":"租賃住宅市場"},{"start":281.425,"end":281.905,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例"},{"start":306.311,"end":323.183,"text":"你以一般基層的像勞動階級的你根本你要去付我們所訂出來的價格他們還是受不了那你政府的免疫就會變消失了我們政府是要照顧這一些弱勢的"},{"start":324.203,"end":325.024,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例"},{"start":347.176,"end":349.738,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條文修正草案案"},{"start":365.868,"end":381.188,"text":"二、審查委員牛煦庭等18人擬具:「租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及第三十八條之二及"},{"start":381.408,"end":381.728,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":398.711,"end":403.233,"text":"租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例第三十四條、第三十八條之二條文修正草案案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}