{"error":false,"id":["154862"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154862,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154862","日期":"2024-09-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-2-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-09-20T16:55:28+08:00","結束時間":"2024-09-20T17:27:03+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1115,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（16時55分）謝謝主席，我想先請行政院院長以及法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：卓院長及鄭部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長好、部長好。今天下午最新的大法官釋憲出爐，我相信你們也應該得到相關的訊息，最後針對死刑是否合憲，大法官做出合憲的決定，但是增加了很多關關卡卡，對於現在已存的37名死刑犯，在部分的條件下他可以聲請非常上訴，還有針對一些精障的部分，未來在執行上是不是可以執行死刑等等，所以我想請問一下院長，針對今天最新的釋憲結果，行政院的回應是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝王委員關心這個議題，誠如剛剛我們回答吳思瑤委員一樣，遵守國際人權公約以及完善我們法律正義的程序，這是兩項重要的原則，所以行政院跟國人都應該尊重大法官會議所作出對於死刑意見的這個決定，這個決定意味著死刑的制度原則上是合憲，但在訴訟的過程當中它有若干違憲這部分，我們必須再補正、修正。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，其實未來接下來的重點就是這37名死刑犯一直都沒有執行，我現在具體的請教法務部長，既然死刑是合憲的，那請問一下我們一直都沒有執行的37名死刑犯，什麼時候才會落實執行死刑？請部長回答。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，本部還是尊重憲法法庭的判決結果，雖然死刑是合憲，但是在37個個案中，其實憲法法庭也有提到，就是部分的訴訟程序或者是受刑人本身……"],["王委員鴻薇：我了解……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是有違憲的一個情形，須在兩年內完成修法，所以我們目前會遵照憲法法庭判決的意旨，就這37個受死刑……"],["王委員鴻薇：來做釐清？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，做一個嚴謹的審核，來提……"],["王委員鴻薇：那要審核多久？因為在這37位當中，甚至有長達24年都沒有執行死刑，也就是這些受害家屬等待了將近四分之一個世紀，都還沒有等到他的公平和正義。現在根據今天憲法法庭做成的決議，你要釐清，請問一下，你要多久才能釐清？多久才能夠開始執行死刑？"],["鄭部長銘謙：針對這部分，我們請最高檢察署儘速來做一個……"],["王委員鴻薇：「儘速」大概要多久？要給社會一個回答。如果按照這樣，雖然死刑合憲，但是我們擔心的是用這樣關關卡卡，並不是讓37名的死刑犯又一次得到免死金牌，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是這樣的，這37位死刑……"],["王委員鴻薇：您回答我你們需要多少時間？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒辦法確定，我們會儘速請最高檢察署……因為這個是憲法法庭剛剛判決宣示出來，而且每個個案的情況都不一樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：我在這邊具體要求行政院、法務部儘快釐清這37名死刑犯哪一些合乎非常上訴條件，哪一些根本不合乎非常上訴條件，你們就應該落實執行死刑，對不對？依法執行，對不對？院長，我講的合不合理？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，因為我人在這裡，我沒有看到整個的內容，不過我初步的瞭解是針對那些真的罪大惡極的個案可以適用……"],["王委員鴻薇：好啊！我要講的是……"],["卓院長榮泰：那每個案件的複雜程度不同，我們希望能儘快地給社會一個最……"],["王委員鴻薇：儘快給社會一個交代，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：大法官會解釋之後後續的發展。"],["王委員鴻薇：儘快給社會交代……"],["卓院長榮泰：可以，但是每個案件的……"],["王委員鴻薇：不要讓大家以為這個是拿了免死金牌。","第二件事情，因為按照今天憲法法庭所提出來的，對這37名的死刑犯，你們必須重新檢視，他有一些可能合乎資格，可以去跟檢察總長請求提起非常上訴，但是正好我今天質詢，我要直接說明的是，因為憲法法庭說如果不是犯最嚴重之罪而判處死刑，他可以請檢察總長提非常上訴。什麼叫作不是最嚴重之罪？我要特別講，37名死刑犯裡面，這裡面有好幾個案子是殺警案，過去多少殺警案讓整個社會付出沉重代價，我們痛徹心扉！所以對於殺警案，我在這邊具體地要求，對於殺警案，檢察總長不應該再幫他提起非常上訴。另外，這裡面也有很多非常殘忍地去殺害無辜女性，性侵之後姦屍，甚至還去破壞屍體，這樣的案子也不應該再去提起非常上訴，不要再浪費我們的社會資源、司法資源。","所以我要講的是，今天雖然有合憲的決議，但是這些所謂的關關卡卡不應該成為這37名死刑犯的護身符、再次的免死金牌，尤其這些人神共憤的重大罪刑案，該執行就要執行。","第三點，這裡面特別提到有關於精障的部分，過去我們也看到重大的刑案裡面，以所謂的精障作為逃脫罪名的說法、藉口，有引起社會極大的反彈，民意無法接受。所以未來有關於精障的標準，應該要有嚴格的科學認定，這當然應該是在司法院的部分，雖然這個不屬於行政院跟法務部的範疇，可是我在這邊也要提出我們的主張，因為我覺得我們的社會公義，尤其這些受害人家屬他們的公平正義，應該在司法裡面得到伸張，好不好？院長，可不可以承諾？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我想委員這種嫉惡如仇的精神，多數的人跟您是一樣的。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯，80%的臺灣民眾跟我一樣！"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我還必須要講一句話，如……"],["王委員鴻薇：你是不是跟我一樣？我問你，是不是跟我一樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：一樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：一樣，所以啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我也請委員跟我一樣，如果我們要進入到整個大法官解釋之後的後續行為，那會進入到每個個案，我們就不要涉入個案。我們嫉惡如仇的精神是一樣的，不涉入個案的原則也應該相同，讓未來的檢察體系……"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛剛講個案、殺警案，殺警還要提起非常上訴、還要再審，哪有這種道理！好，我不要浪費我今天質詢……還有很多東西。所以今天特別請部長跟院長做一個答復，今天因為很多媒體在等你們的答復，所以……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想這個部分最高檢察署會就37個個案……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，你再花最多30秒，你回應一下。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們會儘速請最高檢察署來就37個案子做一個審酌、審核，然後研擬提起非常上訴，再來就是最高法院做一個審理。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這個重點我剛剛講了，所謂的最嚴重之罪，因為這個泛泛，什麼叫作最嚴重之罪？我剛剛講了，殺警是很嚴重的，對不對？不要再以說什麼……因為這裡面包含說合議庭一定要一致，如果沒有一致的決議就可以提出。所以在這邊我希望今天的釋憲案不是另外一個其實就是還是在做廢死、不做執行的擋箭牌，好不好？","法務部長請回，時間暫停一下。我請一下內政部長。"],["主席：內政部長請。"],["王委員鴻薇：法務部長，對不起。"],["主席：法務部長。"],["王委員鴻薇：內政部長。"],["主席：兩位嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：對，兩位。"],["主席：內政部跟法務部，請備詢。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我繼續延續全民關心的話題，就是打詐，詐騙已經無所不在，臺灣多少民眾受詐騙所苦，為了打詐，我們成立打詐辦公室，成立打詐國家隊，然後花了大筆的預算去提高宣傳的效果。院長，我告訴你一個非常驚人的數字，行政院很好，為了要打詐、提醒大家，你們做了一個打詐儀表板，每天告訴你，彙整從中央到地方有多少詐騙案件，有多少財損，從8月29日上線開始，這個打詐儀表板每一天所顯示的詐騙數量和詐騙財損的金額，簡直嚇死人！你來看，8月29日第一天上線，整個打詐儀表板所顯示的財損金額達到4億，超過4億，到了9月3日大概是一個高峰，超過了5億，昨天一樣超過4億。所以我想請問部長，我怕院長記不起來，你知不知道我們去年整體的詐騙財損金額是多少？部長記得嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我不太記得，但是我知道大概是兩萬多件，額度我不太記得。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個金額很重要，當時就說去年財損金額達到88億元，創下歷史新高，財損金額88億，創下新高，但是我告訴你這幾天、短短的20天上線之後，我們把它計算一下，財損金額已經達到80億元，短短20天。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，計算方法不一樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：你讓我講完，打詐儀表板是你們行政院的，也不是我把它弄出來的，現在在整個金額上面，6月、7月、8月每一個月都超過100億，按照這樣子的進度，院長，我是你的話，我會心驚膽跳，怎麼打詐打成財損金額繼續上升，詐騙集團根本太猖獗了，根本不怕。所以今天如果我要送你東西，我要送你什麼？我要送你一個白旗，為什麼？難道我們跟詐騙集團揮白旗了嗎？我們難道投降了嗎？為何詐騙集團繼續如此猖獗？在上個會期我們在野政黨也一起支持打詐四法，我們希望趕快發揮功效，我們不想看到整個詐騙全線的崩潰。所以在這邊特別提醒，包含內政部、法務部，打詐現在我們還需努力，不是通過法律完就結束了，這點非常重要。","另外，我們來看錢花到哪裡去了？錢花到哪裡去了？我們最近不管在電子媒體、電視廣播，還不時的看到很多的反詐騙廣告，我們政府花了大錢，以今年來說，包含行政院、包含警政署、包含法務部，我們在打詐的媒體預算全部都大幅增加，增加最多的就是警政署，增加最多就是113年和114年，你編列這麼多打詐的媒體宣傳預算，宣傳到哪裡去了？成果在哪裡？不可能今天一方面民眾的荷包受損，我們納稅人的荷包也在失血，它的效果在哪裡？這個實在令人無法接受。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，明年我們會全力的來執行這個預算，因為兩億多是明年會開始執行的，執行的過程我希望能夠得到大院的支持，我們會向大院詳細的報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，你這樣讓我怎麼支持，花這麼多錢，113年雖然不干你的事情，因為這個是前面……"],["劉部長世芳：113年一千多萬。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯。"],["劉部長世芳：就是現在。"],["王委員鴻薇：對啊！我的意思是……"],["卓院長榮泰：明年會……"],["王委員鴻薇：我跟你講113年就是增加了，113年就比之前增加啊！然後你們現在再大幅地增加，我告訴你，接下來我為什麼要講，我們今天不能夠是這樣子，我們今天政府花這麼多錢，結果詐騙集團賺飽飽，我直接講也不能夠讓特定媒體，我直接說綠媒不應該賺飽飽啊！這次在你們上任之前，我就曾經去統計過，這是112年度（去年度）的執行，當然也不是你們在執行，可是光是反詐騙的拍攝、媒體行銷，包含你們這麼多部會──行政院、刑事警察局、法務部，還有包含金管會，今年好像金管會沒有，全部94%的預算集中在一家媒體──民視，這就是我們最近一直在討論的，為什麼政府媒體行銷的預算如此地集中？我現在還有一些資料，人家在跟我爆料，院長之前也講了這是政府的問題，所以你們在執行的時候，如果光是詐騙的媒體行銷94%集中在一家民視手上，合理嗎？合理嗎？院長合理嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：媒體公開採購，這是一個制度。"],["王委員鴻薇：怎麼這麼好呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我們可以檢討一個……"],["王委員鴻薇：我還要告訴你，為什麼每年都可以集中在它手上呢？這個制度是怎麼樣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：是不是只有它最有興趣，比方說體育的活動也是某幾家特別有興趣，但我要強調的是如果採購的制度會形成不公平，我願意來檢討。"],["王委員鴻薇：別人來標政府標案沒有興趣，因為知道標不到是嗎？所以這邊就是要提醒你，在這一趴的質詢裡面，我最關心的是我們現在不能夠容忍詐騙集團如此猖獗。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我前陣子看到，例如我們那時候說有很多的名人，不管是政治名人、財經名人，包含經濟部長也是受害者啊，對不對？他的假的FB啊！現在有一些網紅，因為就是一些理財達人，也是一樣啊！就通通都被當詐騙集團，因為大部分都集中在所謂的投資理財詐騙，所以我們痛下決心一定不能對詐騙集團投降，但是我在這邊直接告訴我們院長、告訴我們部會首長，你們現在大幅增加的媒體行銷預算，我們礙難同意，如果你的執行是這樣子的話，這怎麼能夠同意呢？你要有成效才可以，好不好？在這邊請你們執行。"],["卓院長榮泰：明年的相關預算執行過程……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有，包含你今年的執行喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們願意檢討，給大院一個很好的行程說明。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，你不是明年才當行政院長，對不對？現在有一些執行你們也怪怪的，我直接說……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在沒有那麼多問題……"],["王委員鴻薇：包含行政院下面這個打詐預算、一些預算也是怪怪的，等我抓出來我再告訴你，也許你不知道，非常奇怪。","時間暫停一下，兩位部長先請回，我請央行總裁。"],["主席：請總裁備詢。"],["王委員鴻薇：時間暫停一下，我沒有發言，時間暫停一下，好不好？"],["楊總裁金龍：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：總裁好。總裁，你們昨天公布的第七波打房，這個效果非常驚人，打房該不該打？該打！但是這一波被媒體形容為史上最猛、史上最兇、往死裡打的打房措施，我要跟總裁反映的事情，院長也請聽一下，基本上我要講的，我很早就認識總裁，以前我跑中央銀行，所以我極度尊重中央銀行的獨立性，不希望政治的手干預到中央銀行，但是這一次的打房措施，我必須要去反映整個民情，我們這次打房的猛藥來得太晚、來得太猛，以目前來看，總裁，你們可能要去考慮到有沒有濫殺無辜的狀況，因為你們現在對第二房很快的從原來的六成降到五成，然後降到四成，這個非常快速地降低，但是大家都知道現在房價很高，有很多買預售屋的可能是2年前買的，所以他現在會面臨一個什麼狀況？另外兩成他籌不出錢來，他必須去退，按照現在契約，他要補房價的15%，所以原來在之前，也許2年前、3年前他買預售屋，然後現在開始要交屋了，他現在立刻面臨到他這兩成的gap他補不過來，所以他必須去退，那麼倒楣的是誰？倒楣的就是這些當年2年前去買預售屋的。","還有，因為你們到了現在自然人第二房，這個沒有寬限期，我要講，原來我就是有繼承祖厝，很多可能在中南部農村，我就有繼承祖厝，可是我來到臺北來打拚、來到新北來打拚，我不能買房嗎？我買房我現在連寬限期都沒有。所以總裁，你說要給他們一個lesson，給這些投資客一個lesson，可是很多人不是投資客，他不是投機也不是投資，對不對？你說，自然人買第二房，他原來他在他的農村裡面，他繼承了一個祖厝，結果你現在買房，你把他當投資客，我打他，給他一個lesson，不合理，這個是一個。","另外，我特別講說不要去濫殺無辜，所以在這邊具體地來建議中央銀行，這個在你們上次提的時候，我也跟你們央行，我忘了是業務局還怎麼樣，它跟我講一大堆，後來果然問題一堆，你們應該定出一個日出條款，也就是說，今天當央行有一個這樣的嚴厲的打房，選擇性信用管制，你應該從這個時候開始，我買成屋也好、我買預售屋也好，我2年前買，我很倒楣，我在1個月前買，結果我現在貸不到錢，我現在必須要去退，然後我立刻損失，他們何其無辜！是他們在炒房嗎？當然不是阿！我現在在講誰在炒房？新青安，我真的很生氣，今年為什麼央行這樣子打下來？就是因為今年漲得太兇，新青安從去年8月份推了以後，從南到北最少都漲5%，臺北市漲5%，新竹縣市漲11%，就是因為今年漲得太多、漲得太兇，新青安推升了房價，成為整個房價上升的元兇，結果別人倒楣了，非常好，財政部長上來了，推新青安的人出來道歉啊！推新青安造成整個現在房價一發不可收拾，然後央行現在重手去打房。","總裁，我在這邊跟你預告，這次打房會成功，房價一定會有反應，但是我要講的是，我們不能坐在冷氣房裡面，就如同那時候是限貸令，說有沒有限貸令，沒有，沒有限貸令，可是有沒有呢？我們都接收到很多的陳情，有沒有？有啊！而且這個限貸令，你們最近趕快去做了一些補救措施，我在這邊可以預言，半年之內會再出現貸不到錢，因為你們現在都滿水位了，你們銀行統統都滿水位了，所以我要講的就是說，我希望在這一波的打房措施裡面，能夠去討論到這一些他們並不是在炒房的投機客、投資客，好不好？總裁，可以嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：可以。"],["王委員鴻薇：教他們一個lesson，有的人很倒楣，他又沒有在炒房……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們會持續地來檢討。"],["王委員鴻薇：好不好？拜託總裁，好。時間暫停一下，再請一下我們的金管會主委。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，拜託新青安的部分能夠讓……"],["王委員鴻薇：我沒有時間了，對不起，因為我沒有很多時間。"],["卓院長榮泰：這會停留在您說的這樣的……"],["王委員鴻薇：你用書面，我跟你講，你們當時的新青安就是炒房元凶……"],["主席：請主委備詢。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想新青安的政策委員您很清楚，我們在財委會……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們都很清楚。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們的政策。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，我為什麼在講一些金融性的，我們在財委會，但是我覺得這滿重要，今天在金融界，大概吵的除了……總裁可以請回，總裁，這個怎麼引起最大的這個……因為影響很大。","另外一個就是新光金要被誰併、花落誰家的問題，這個我也有跟主委討論過。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：今天中信金已經宣布他們放棄，民不與官鬥，對不對？我現在要講的，我昨天也跟你講過，有關於併購的政策要公開、要透明、要公正，你們怎麼說？你看中信金搶親拚翻盤，金管會怒了緩議就是反對。主委，我當時就請問你們是依哪一條法可以直接說反對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：人家先跟你申請，你可以准，你也可以不准，這是你行政的職權，這是你的權責嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，報告委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：但是你又怎麼說不用送了，緩議就是反對，不必送了，可以這樣子嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，那個是……"],["王委員鴻薇：金管會有這麼大的權力嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，有關金控公司申請投資是根據金控法第三十六條第三項的規定，我們進行審核……"],["王委員鴻薇：它可不可以送嘛？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在的話，基本上它本來就已經送了啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：對啊！但你們駁了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們已經在……"],["王委員鴻薇：那它要修正再送，不行嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們沒有叫它補件，我們緩議就是不同意，我們在記者會的時候已經清楚講……"],["王委員鴻薇：緩議就是不同意。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，因為你不是學法，我雖然不是學法，可是我就問主委到底是哪一條法，我要講的，在這一次的合併案裡面，大股東也告來告去，我剛才在前面講的，包含台新金有沒有違反金金分離，主委，我發文變成密件，到現在你不敢回文給我。"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：我說你就白紙黑字說，以台新金這樣透過控股公司去掌控新光金的董事之後再說兩邊合意併購，這真的是很奇怪！好，所以請你趕快回文……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，可能是你對那個法條的誤解。"],["王委員鴻薇：你趕快回文，我說我要白紙黑字，這白紙黑字就是要通行天下，都可以通行。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我有跟委員解釋過，因為這是一個檢舉函，所以我們會用密件來處理，並不是因為特別……"],["王委員鴻薇：不是檢舉函，這不是檢舉函，人家都告到北檢去了。所以這件事情我要講的，我們所有的併購案必須要公平、公正、透明。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們絕對公平、公正，而且依法辦理。"],["王委員鴻薇：然後我要講的是，來！直接說，在這一次金管會的作為普遍被外界認為有獨厚台新金的嫌疑，而這樣的狀況，外界盛傳是因為台新金有一個超級大門神，就是前經濟部長王美花部長，年薪1,500萬……"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個不會是我們在考慮這些事情的……"],["王委員鴻薇：年薪1,500萬啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，其實……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以在整個狀況之下，金管會有關金金分離的原則竟然可以完全不理，然後另外……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，其實有關法律的解釋並不是如此。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們可以人家要去申請，然後你說緩議就是反對，你看這是你自己說的，你們這麼大的權力，這是代表說你不要進來了，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為金控法第三十六條是規定未……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我要講的是，院長，不管金融或者是公營行庫，我希望不要因為綠色門神當道而變成無法無天，所以我今天講的這個金融就是……"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，這根本不在我們考慮之內……"],["王委員鴻薇：今天台新金是不是有一個綠色大門神守在那裡？","另外第二件，部長，你知道嗎？其實在國防預算裡面，我們會一直非常專注去討論有關潛艦國造的部分，因為這次是一次把它編足，然後在海鯤號裡面有三個主要的支柱，就是包含黃曙光、海軍，還有台船，照理說，台船這次完成了海鯤號，接下來台船不是應該有更重要的任務嗎？結果台船的董事長……很好，經濟部長上來，不知道你知不知道？台船董事長突然在無預警的狀況之下，比如說，今天給他一個公文，明天請他走人，為什麼？請問一下，台船發生什麼問題？如果你們覺得海鯤號很OK，國防部長不是在講嗎？我們會完成什麼，明年就會完成測試，交艦等等之類，不是台船造的嗎？結果台船到底出了什麼問題，要讓他羞辱性的走人？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：為什麼？來，我時間最後……"],["卓院長榮泰：我還要在這裡……"],["王委員鴻薇：這個……"],["卓院長榮泰：還是要謝謝鄭董事長的辛苦……"],["王委員鴻薇：讓我講，沒有，我講完，結果鄭文隆的離職……"],["卓院長榮泰：台船不只是只有做潛艦……"],["王委員鴻薇：是因為基隆市議長，也就是我們當今總統的外甥……"],["卓院長榮泰：完全無稽之談。"],["王委員鴻薇：童子瑋，媒體去問他，他不敢回應喔！他不敢回應……"],["卓院長榮泰：完全無稽之談。"],["王委員鴻薇：童子瑋可以弄掉一個台船的董事長，一個重要海鯤號，這個算是讓他完成的董事長……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你知道台船新任董事長的背景嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：那我請問，為什麼鄭文隆要走？他犯了什麼問題、他有什麼錯誤？"],["卓院長榮泰：我還是要謝謝鄭……"],["王委員鴻薇：他不專業嗎？他沒有完成海鯤號嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我還是要謝謝……"],["王委員鴻薇：不要羞辱人到這種地步！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝鄭董事長任內為台船的付出……"],["王委員鴻薇：你這句話好廉價啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，我告訴你……"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，如果今天發函給你，明天你就走人……"],["卓院長榮泰：我就走。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，如果告訴你，你明天就走人……"],["卓院長榮泰：我就走啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：這是不是羞辱式的？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，公務人員就是這樣子啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我跟你講，這些門神當道啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是……"],["王委員鴻薇：一個基隆市議長可以搞掉一個台船的董事長……"],["卓院長榮泰：海鯤號很重要……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是台船不只是做海鯤號而已……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們會不會無法無天啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是這樣子，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們可以無法無天嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們是依法任用。"],["王委員鴻薇：一個台新金的門神，一個王美花可以搞成這個樣子，獨厚一家金控，太離譜了啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員很多的用語都是無端的指控……"],["王委員鴻薇：做到這麼難看……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們無法接受。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們大家市場都在看……"],["卓院長榮泰：市場都在看……"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，有一些原則……"],["卓院長榮泰：金融市場的安定……"],["王委員鴻薇：有一些原則你要把它守住，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們共同守住金融市場的安定，不要在這裡公開施以壓力。"],["王委員鴻薇：守住，好不好？不要大家變得繪聲繪影，然後大家覺得沒有公平跟公正，連台船的董事長都可以被你們這樣搞掉。"],["主席：好，我們時間到，謝謝王委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請沈發惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":15,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","高金素梅"],"page_start":7,"meetingDate":["2024-09-20"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1137501_00001"}},"委員名稱":"王鴻薇","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bd92ad92936238b08f08ba7b0436876b47607cafce7c84e83c2656c13cfb7c3a6c5db8da8e21e8885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7.35471875,"end":9.025343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9.447218750000001,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.704093750000002,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14.712218750000002,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.640343750000003,"end":18.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":25.47846875,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.84971875,"end":27.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":26.035343750000003,"end":26.085968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.12784375,"end":34.860968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.384093750000005,"end":39.602843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":39.99096875,"end":42.977843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":43.68659375,"end":47.939093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":48.377843750000004,"end":54.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":54.23346875,"end":58.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.806593750000005,"end":69.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":69.62346875,"end":70.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":71.20971875000001,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":75.85034375000001,"end":78.14534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":78.55034375000001,"end":81.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":82.07721875,"end":84.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":84.81096875,"end":86.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":86.80221875000001,"end":87.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":87.29159375,"end":88.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":88.86096875000001,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":91.00409375000001,"end":91.39221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":91.96596875,"end":95.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":96.28596875000001,"end":97.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":97.70346875,"end":99.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":99.86346875000001,"end":100.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":101.17971875,"end":102.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":103.00221875000001,"end":104.67284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":105.22971875,"end":108.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.56284375000001,"end":116.68784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":117.34596875000001,"end":120.48471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":121.02471875,"end":122.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":122.99909375000001,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":124.88909375,"end":129.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":130.37346875,"end":134.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.60471875000002,"end":144.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.81846875000002,"end":150.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.79221875000002,"end":152.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":152.85096875000002,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.01971875,"end":153.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.76221875000002,"end":157.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.01471875000001,"end":160.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.33909375000002,"end":168.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":167.44784375,"end":168.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.46034375000002,"end":172.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":171.10971875,"end":173.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.59034375000002,"end":178.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.45034375,"end":182.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":182.58471875,"end":185.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.55471875,"end":200.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.24846875,"end":206.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.78784375,"end":207.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.45846875,"end":208.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.74534375000002,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.31909375,"end":209.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","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行政院的回應是什麼好 謝謝王委員的關心這個議題就像剛剛我們在回答胡適耀委員一樣"},{"start":82.133,"end":103.629,"text":"遵守國際人權公約以及完善我們的法律的正義程序這個是兩項重要的原則所以行政院跟國人都應該尊重大法官會所做出的對這個死刑意見的這個決定那這個決定呢他是意味著死刑的制度是原則上是合憲的但在訴訟的過程當中"},{"start":105.29,"end":134.653,"text":"他若干有違憲這部分對 因為他現在呢其實重點未來重點就是接下來37名這個死刑犯因為他一直都沒有執行那我現在具體的請教法務部長那麼既然死刑是核限的那請問一下我們一直都沒有執行的37名死刑犯什麼時候才會落實執行死刑請部長回答"},{"start":135.66,"end":136,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":161.377,"end":184.637,"text":"的憲法法庭的一個判決的意旨那就這三個七個的這些的受死刑來做釐清對做一個審核嚴謹的審來提好那要審核多久因為這37位甚至有長達24年都沒有執行死刑也就是這些受害家屬等待了將近五分之一個"},{"start":185.558,"end":186.659,"text":"那這部分我們請最高檢察署來競訴來做一個要給社會一個"},{"start":210.785,"end":225.957,"text":"一個回答因為如果按照這樣雖然死刑核限但是我們擔心的是用這樣關關卡卡而不是讓37名的死刑犯又一次得到了免死金牌對不對"},{"start":226.752,"end":227.492,"text":"律師律師律師律師律師律師律師"},{"start":248.365,"end":257.062,"text":"合乎非常上述條件哪一些根本不合乎非常上述條件你們就應該落實執行死刑對不對依法執行 對不對"},{"start":259.004,"end":283.069,"text":"議員長我講的合不合理報告委員因為我人在這裡我沒有看到整個的內容不過我初步的瞭解是針對那些真的最大惡極的個案可以適用每個案件的復雜程度不同我們希望能盡快的給社會一個對澳門的後續的發展盡快給社會交代不要讓大家以為這個是拿了免死金牌第二件事情"},{"start":283.849,"end":298.349,"text":"因為按照今天憲法法庭所提出來的這37名的死刑犯你們要必須重新檢視他有一些可能合乎資格可以去跟這個檢察總長去提起這個非常上述"},{"start":299.19,"end":316.899,"text":"但是我在這邊 我也要 正好我今天質詢 我要直接的說明的是因為在憲法法庭說 如果這個事不是犯最嚴重之罪而判處死刑 他可以請檢察總長提非常上訴"},{"start":317.919,"end":340.32,"text":"什麼叫做不是最嚴重之罪我要特別講37名死刑犯裡面這裡面有好幾個案子是殺警案過去多少殺警案讓整個社會付出沉重代價我們痛徹心扉所以殺警案我在這邊具體的要求殺警犯檢察總長不應該再幫他提起非常上訴"},{"start":341.221,"end":365.77,"text":"另外這裡面也有很多非常殘忍的去殺害無辜女性性侵之後兼施然後甚至還去破壞這個屍體這樣的案子也不應該再去提起非常上訴不要再浪費我們的社會資源司法資源所以我要講的是今天雖然"},{"start":366.61,"end":366.67,"text":"第三點："},{"start":385.018,"end":404.62,"text":"這裏面特別提到有關於金帳的部分過去我們也看到重大的刑案裏面以所謂的金帳然後作為一個逃脫罪名的一個說法藉口也引起社會極大的反彈民意無法接受所以未來有關於金帳的它的標準"},{"start":405.841,"end":426.784,"text":"應該要有嚴格的科學認定這當然是應該在司法院的部分但是呢這個不屬於行政院跟法務部的範疇可是我在這邊也要去提出我們的主張因為我覺得我們的社會公義尤其這些受害人家屬他的公平正義應該在司法裡面得到伸張好不好"},{"start":428.066,"end":456.244,"text":"院長可不可以 可不可以承諾謝謝委員 我想委員這種饑餓如仇的精神多數的人跟您是一樣的沒錯 百分之八十的台灣民眾跟我一樣我還必須要講一句話你是不是跟我一樣 我問你是不是跟我一樣一樣 一樣 那所以啊所以我也請委員跟我一樣如果我們要進入到整個道法官解釋之後的後續行為那會進入到每個個案 我們就不要涉入個案我們饑餓如仇的精神是一樣的不涉入個案的原則也應該相同"},{"start":459.323,"end":480.67,"text":"沙警案 沙警 還要提前非常上訴 還要再審那種道理 我不要浪費我這個今天質詢要很多東西啦所以今天特別請部長跟院長做一個答覆今天因為很多媒體也在等你們的答覆所以 你再花最多30秒 你回應一下"},{"start":482.471,"end":494.304,"text":"這部分我們會請最高審理來做一個審酌整合提起非常嚴厲 提起非常上述再來就是最高法院來做一個審理"},{"start":494.963,"end":495.563,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":525.624,"end":526.424,"text":"內政部跟法務部長請備詢"},{"start":561.006,"end":583.559,"text":"我繼續延續全民關心的話題就是打詐 詐騙已經無所不在 台灣多少民眾受詐騙所苦為了打詐 我們成立打詐辦公室 成立打詐國家隊 然後花了大筆的預算去提高宣傳的效果"},{"start":584.892,"end":603.731,"text":"院長我告訴你一個非常驚人的數字你們行政院很好為了要打架提醒大家你們做了一個就是一個打架的一個儀表板就是每天告訴你會診從中央到地方有多少詐騙的案件然後有多少的財損"},{"start":605.732,"end":617.379,"text":"從8月29號上線開始﹐這個打詐儀表板每一天所顯示的﹐打詐的﹐就是詐騙的數量﹐跟詐騙財損的金額﹐簡直嚇死人以來看﹐8月29號第一天上線﹐整個的打詐儀表板所顯示的財損金額﹐達到4億﹐超過4億"},{"start":628.479,"end":656.221,"text":"到了9月3號這個大概是一個高峰超過了5億在昨天一樣超過了4億所以我想請問一下部長我怕院長記不起來你知不知道去年我們整體的詐騙財損金額是多少部長記得嗎我不太記得但是我知道大概是2萬多件額度我不太記得"},{"start":657.402,"end":685.541,"text":"這個金額很重要當時就說去年財損金額﹖達到88億元﹖創下歷史新高財損金額﹖88億﹖創下新高但是我告訴你這幾天短短的20天上線之後我們把它計算一下財損金額已經達到80億元短短20天報告委員計算方法不一樣"},{"start":687.864,"end":691.127,"text":"我們現在在整個的金額上面6月7月8月每一個月都超過100億按照這樣子的一個進度院長我是你的話我會心驚膽跳"},{"start":714.224,"end":714.324,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":736.906,"end":764.022,"text":"我們難道投降了嗎為何如此的詐騙集團繼續的這麼猖獗我們在上個會期我們全部的支持在野的那個政黨也一起支持打詐司法我們希望他趕快發揮功效所以我們不想看到這樣整個的詐騙權限的崩潰所以在這邊特別提醒包含我們內政部提醒我們法務部"},{"start":765.376,"end":792.235,"text":"打詐現在我們還需努力不是通過法律完就結束的這點非常重要另外我們來看錢花到哪裡去了錢花到哪裡去了我們最近不管在電子媒體電視廣播還不時的看到很多的這個詐騙反詐騙的廣告我們政府花了大錢而以今年來說"},{"start":793.536,"end":809.803,"text":"都喊行政院 都喊警政署 都喊法務部我們在打詐的媒體預算全部都大幅的增加增加最多的就是警政署增加最多就是113跟114年你編列這麼多的打詐的媒體宣傳的預算宣傳到哪裡去了成果在哪裡我們不可能說今天我們一方面"},{"start":823.24,"end":829.03,"text":"民眾的荷包受損我們納稅人的荷包也在失選它的效果在哪裡這個實在令人無法接受"},{"start":832.995,"end":833.675,"text":"113年一千多萬"},{"start":856.485,"end":856.645,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":873.883,"end":879.972,"text":"我們今天不能夠是這樣子我們今天政府花這麼多錢結果詐騙集團賺飽飽我直接講也不能夠讓特地媒體我直接說綠北部應該賺飽飽啊"},{"start":889.994,"end":911.953,"text":"這次在你們上任之前我就曾經去統計過這是112年度在去年度的執行當然也不是你們在執行可是光是反詐騙的拍攝媒體行銷包含你們這麼多部會 行政院 刑事警察局 法務部 包含金管會今年金管會沒有"},{"start":913.348,"end":934.43,"text":"全部9494%的預算集中在一家媒體民視這就是我們最近一直在討論的為什麼政府的預算行銷的預算行銷媒體行銷的預算如此的集中我現在還有一些資料人家跟我跟我在在爆料"},{"start":936.024,"end":949.857,"text":"集中 剛才 院長之前也講這個政府 這政府的問題啊所以你們在執行的時候如果光是詐騙的這個媒體行銷94%集中在一家民事手上合理嗎合理嗎"},{"start":954.272,"end":967.885,"text":"議員長合理嗎媒體公開採購這是一個制度阿怎麼這麼好呢我回來告訴你為什麼他每年都可以集中在他手上呢這個制度是怎麼樣呢是不是只有他最有興趣比方說"},{"start":968.846,"end":970.226,"text":"我最關心的是我們現在不能夠容忍詐騙集團如此猖獗"},{"start":993.792,"end":1019.309,"text":"我前陣子看到比如說那時候說有很多的名人不管是政治的名人財經的名人包含我們那個經濟部長也是受害者啊對不對人家就是他的假的FB啊現在有一些網紅就是一些理財達人也是一樣啊就通通都被當詐騙集團尤其因為大部分都集中在所謂的投資理財的詐騙所以我們痛下決心"},{"start":1020.029,"end":1036.605,"text":"一定要就是不能對詐騙集團投降但是我在這邊直接告訴告訴我們院長告訴我們部會首長你們現在增加的大幅增加的媒體行銷預算我們愛難同意如果你的執行是這樣子的話"},{"start":1038.127,"end":1065.547,"text":"這怎麼能夠同意呢你要有這個成效才可以好不好在這邊請你們執行沒有你包含今天執行嗎院長你不是明年才當行政院長對不對現在有一些執行你們也怪怪的我直接說包含你行政院下面這個打詐預算什麼一些預算也是怪怪的等我抓出來我再告訴你也許你不知道"},{"start":1066.287,"end":1066.307,"text":"時間暫停"},{"start":1096.04,"end":1120.36,"text":"委員好總裁好 總裁啊 是你們昨天公布的這個打房啊 第7波打房這個效果啊 非常驚人打房該不該打 該打但是呢 這一波被媒體形容什麼史上最猛 史上最兇這個 往死裡打"},{"start":1121.55,"end":1146.855,"text":"的打房措施那我要跟總裁反映的事情這院長也請要聽一下基本上我要講我很早認識總裁我之前已經跑中央銀行所以我極度尊重中央銀行的獨立性我不希望政治的手干預到中央銀行但是這一次的打房措施我必須要去反映整個的民情"},{"start":1148.086,"end":1160.655,"text":"我們這次打房的萌藥來得太晚來得太猛以目前來看總裁你們可能要去考慮到有沒有濫殺無辜的狀況"},{"start":1162.349,"end":1185.848,"text":"因為你們現在在第二房很快的從原來的6層降到5層然後降到4層這個非常快速的降低但是大家都知道現在房價很高那有很多買預售屋的你有我的時間有很多買預售屋的他可能是兩年前買的所以他現在會面臨一個什麼狀況另外兩層他籌不出錢來"},{"start":1187.148,"end":1200.735,"text":"他必須去退退按照現在契約他要補房價的15%所以原來在之前也許兩年前三年前他買預收物然後現在開始要交屋了"},{"start":1201.391,"end":1201.551,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":1221.793,"end":1245.916,"text":"原來我就是有繼承主處我們很多可能在中南部農村我就有繼承這個主處可是呢我來到台北來打拼來到新北來打拼我不能買房嗎我買房我現在連寬限期都沒有所以總裁你說要給他們一個Lesson給這些投資客一個Lesson可是很多人他不是投資他不是投機也不是投資啊"},{"start":1246.917,"end":1247.197,"text":"另外我特別講說不要去濫殺無辜"},{"start":1263.698,"end":1285.269,"text":"所以在這邊具體的來建議中央銀行這個在你們上次提的時候我也跟你們央行我忘了是業務局還是怎麼樣他跟我講一大堆後來果然那個問題一堆你們應該訂出一個日出條款也就是說今天當央行有一個這樣的一個嚴厲的打房選擇性信用管制你應該從這個時候開始啊"},{"start":1288.371,"end":1308.747,"text":"我買城屋也好 我買預售屋也好我兩年前買 我很倒楣我在一個月前買結果我現在貸不到錢我現在必須要去退 然後我立刻損失他們何其無辜啊 是他們在炒房嗎當然不是啊 我現在在那邊講誰在炒房新清安 我真的很生氣"},{"start":1314.451,"end":1338.049,"text":"今年為什麼央行這樣子打下來就是因為今年漲得太兇嗎新金安從去年8月份推了以後從南到北最少都漲5%了臺北市漲5%新竹縣市漲11%就是因為今年漲得太多漲得太兇新金安推升了房價成為整個房價上升的元兇結果"},{"start":1341.906,"end":1355.648,"text":"委員倒霉了 非常好 財政部長上來了推薪期還能出來道歉吶推薪期吶 造成整個現在房價一發不可收拾 然後央行現在重手去打"},{"start":1358.55,"end":1379.56,"text":"總裁我在這邊跟你預告這次打房會成功房價會一定會一定會有反應但是我要講的是我們不能坐在冷氣房裡面就如同那時候的現代令說有沒有現代令沒有沒有現代令可是有沒有呢我們都接受很多的陳情有沒有有啊"},{"start":1380.8,"end":1402.693,"text":"而且這個現在你們最近趕快去做了一些補救措施我在這邊可以預言半年之內會再出現貸不到錢貸不到錢因為你們現在都滿水位了嘛你們銀行通通都滿水位了所以我要講的就是說我希望在這一波的打房措施裡面"},{"start":1403.854,"end":1422.22,"text":"能夠去考論到這一些他們並不是在炒房的投機客投資客好不好總裁可以嗎讓他們教他們一個Lesson有的人很倒楣他又沒有在炒房我們會持續的來檢討好不好拜託總裁那個時間暫停一下再請一下我們的金管會主委"},{"start":1434.588,"end":1458.627,"text":"委員拜託這個新清安的部分能夠讓我沒有時間了對不起因為我聽牛仔您說的這樣的說明我跟你講當時新清安就是草房元休的政策應該委員您很清楚我們都很清楚另外我為什麼在講一些金融性的我們在財委會但是我覺得這蠻重要今天在金融界"},{"start":1461.625,"end":1486.699,"text":"總裁可以請回總裁這個引起最大的影響很大另外一個就是新光晶要被誰變花落誰家的問題這個我也有跟主委有討論過今天中信經營已經宣布他們放棄民不予管鬥對不對我現在要講的是昨天我也跟你講過"},{"start":1488.24,"end":1500.363,"text":"我們有關於併購的政策 要公開 要透明 要公正你們怎麼說你看 鍾信金搶親拼翻盤 來看下一列拼翻盤 經委會怒了 反議就是反對主委我當時就說 請問你們是依哪一條法"},{"start":1514.344,"end":1533.754,"text":"說可以直接說反對你人家跟你申請你可以轉你也可以不轉這是你的行政的職權這是你的那個權責嘛但是你有什麼說不用送了懷疑就是反對不必送了可以這樣子嗎我們金管會有這麼大權力嗎"},{"start":1534.735,"end":1535.676,"text":"他可不可以送嗎"},{"start":1549.48,"end":1549.52,"text":"包含"},{"start":1574.346,"end":1575.046,"text":"委員：王鴻薇"},{"start":1604.326,"end":1610.749,"text":"這不是檢舉函 這不是檢舉函人家都告到北檢去了所以這件事情我要講的我們所有的併購案必須要公平公正透明然後我要講的是"},{"start":1631.648,"end":1654.835,"text":"來直接說在這一次金管會的作為普遍被外界認為有毒後台新金的嫌疑而這樣的狀況外界盛傳是因為台新金有一個超級大門神就是我們的前經濟部長王美花部長"},{"start":1656.226,"end":1659.831,"text":"年薪1500萬年薪1500萬吶所以在整個的狀況之下儘管會竟然突然竟然可以有關金金分離的原則你可以處就是完全不理"},{"start":1672.626,"end":1672.646,"text":"院長"},{"start":1691.57,"end":1712.244,"text":"在不管我們金融或者是供應行庫我希望不要因為綠色門神當道而變成無法無天所以我今天講的這個金融就是今天臺信金是不是有一個綠色大門神守在那裡第二件好時間有一點時間另外第二件"},{"start":1713.922,"end":1738.226,"text":"不知道你知道嗎我們其實在國防的預算裡面我們會一直討論我們會非常專注去討論有關前屆國造的部分因為這次是一次把它編組嘛然後在海豚號裡面有三個主要的資助就是包含黃曙光海軍還有臺船"},{"start":1739.912,"end":1763.825,"text":"照理說臺船這次完成了海空號接下來臺船不是應該有更重要的任務嗎結果臺船的董事長很好我們經濟部長上來我不知道你知不知道臺船董事長突然在無預警的狀況之下比如說今天給他一個公文明天請他走人為什麼"},{"start":1766.75,"end":1784.301,"text":"請問一下 台船發生什麼問題 如果你們覺得海昆礦很OK 國防部長不是在講嗎 我們明年就會完成測試交建什麼之類 啊不是台船造的嗎結果台船造出了什麼問題 要讓他羞辱性的走人 為什麼 來我時間最後"},{"start":1786.598,"end":1795.665,"text":"我還要在這裏還是要謝謝向董事長的辛苦臺船不只是沒有做點點完全無稽之談完全無稽之談委員你知道臺船新任董事長的背景嗎"},{"start":1816.581,"end":1817.302,"text":"謝謝鄭董事長任內的為臺船的付出謝謝我告訴你"},{"start":1849.745,"end":1849.785,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":1890.48,"end":1892.462,"text":"好我們時間到謝謝王委員謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-20T10:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:55:28 - 17:27:03","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}