{"error":false,"id":["154879"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154879,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154879","日期":"2024-09-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-2-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-09-24T14:46:35+08:00","結束時間":"2024-09-24T15:17:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":38,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（14時46分）主席，請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["謝委員龍介：院長，今天比較輕鬆一點。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：我來代表臺南市的農漁民送你一個東西，拜託你，希望你多多推廣我們臺南市的農漁產品。我跟你說，這只有賴清德有喝過，別人都沒喝過。","你試試看，只有賴清德在7年前有喝過。先吃個甜甜的。"],["卓院長榮泰：非常甜蜜。"],["謝委員龍介：這是臺南市山上野生的蜂蜜，很多蜂農跟農民、漁民因為景氣不好，希望院長你的高度可以多多為中南部這些農漁產品推廣，減少一些相殺的氣氛，多一些賺錢的商機，這是農漁民希望我在這裡替他們表達他們很無奈的心聲。","內閣是你在帶領，就像一個家庭一樣，人家說，家和萬事興，家不和萬世窮。如果你的閣員互相「定古」，互相「相殺」，其實受到傷害的是你。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯。"],["謝委員龍介：我不認為賴清德會刻意去說，一個已經當到總統的人不會刻意叫閣員修理閣員，他不是這種人，我們都很清楚。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["謝委員龍介：第一，不是賴總統的意思。第二，也不是院長的意思，這樣是誰的意思？就是自己「三八裝賢慧」，我今天修理陳時中對我有什麼幫忙？凸顯你和賴清德有交情這樣嗎？沒有，他們這裡面誰的交情會比我們兩個和他還要好？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員的交情比較好。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦，我們兩個一樣好，我們兩個和賴清德一樣好。除了副院長之外，可能沒有人比我們兩個和他的交情還要好，我說這樣你可能聽得懂，所以何必在皇帝的面前爭寵，這個意思是怎樣？總統有罵過他了，那你不是很囂張！我希望這個事情不要再發生了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，這絕對還要再……"],["謝委員龍介：否則到最後會影響到你。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，一定要請內閣的閣員真的謹守自己的分寸，對政策清清楚楚嚴肅處理。"],["謝委員龍介：再來，看到上回我們的戰鬥機發生故障，飛行員跳機，對不對？這件事情你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員龍介：不幸中的大幸，飛行員跳機沒死的案例是很少的，結果跳機落海沒死，差一點被你們救死，到底是國防部、軍方還是海巡？港口、海面的巡弋到底是怎麼協調的？裝備檢查是誰在處理的？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，這件事情在處理的當時，在最快的時間內都有掌握到他的狀況，我覺得海巡……"],["謝委員龍介：你們救不起來，還叫他跳下去又用游的，還好他剛好會游泳。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要尊重第一線指揮官跟工作弟兄的處理。"],["謝委員龍介：不要再講尊重了，你應付我這個也沒有意思嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我不是在應付，我有瞭解。"],["謝委員龍介：我剛才跟你講的，裝備檢查要怎麼落實，你知不知道？院長不一定知道，我們訓練一個飛行員到他成為合格的飛行員總共要花多少錢，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果要用經費來算是不得了，但是我覺得那是無價的。"],["謝委員龍介：實際的經費，以美軍給我們的標準，我們訓練一個合格的飛行員，合理差不多在550萬至600萬美金，等於我們花在他身上到他可以飛行，應該差不多在1億6,000萬至1億8,000萬，部長，我講的有沒有錯？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以飛行員被救起來的那個時候，大家心裡都覺得很安慰，所以我們尊重第一線工作跟指揮官的處理。"],["謝委員龍介：我們花這麼多錢訓練一個合格的飛行員，目的是什麼？就是要保護我們的國家，守護疆土。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員龍介：結果他落海救得「不答不七」，說實在，全世界都在看我們漏氣、笑話。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明一下。"],["謝委員龍介：部長，我請教你要怎麼挽救？這些裝備檢查要怎麼落實？"],["顧部長立雄：我們有6台直升機有夜間搜救能力，所以我們是有這個能力，但是委員說的那天直升機的吊籃吊下去之後……"],["謝委員龍介：纜繩就咬死了，你還說有！我怎麼會不知道有。"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是要……"],["謝委員龍介：「嗚？就像囡仔在笑的嗚！」。"],["顧部長立雄：當然這種情形是我們不願意看到的。"],["謝委員龍介：所以我剛才問你，以後對裝備的檢查要怎麼落實，部長？"],["顧部長立雄：裝備的妥善率真的是要檢討改進。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你講不要開玩笑，因為現在兩岸很緊張，我們每一個裝備進來都不簡單，都是百姓的血汗錢。你們如果有好好檢查維修，你看一下，那是因為剛好是夏天，你會不會游泳？"],["顧部長立雄：他跳傘下來之後……"],["謝委員龍介：如果是發生在12月天……"],["顧部長立雄：他跳傘下來有一個……"],["謝委員龍介：跳到海水裡面，都不是淹死的，而是失溫死的，大家互相勉勵啦！我是覺得這很重要啦，如果沒有落實裝備的檢查，這件事大家已經都看在眼裡，不好意思指責你啦！大家都很辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：感謝委員的提醒，這一定是未來要加強的，裝備妥善這個工作一定會加強下去，部長有跟你答應的。"],["謝委員龍介：好啦！院長……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員請你放心，我們要救人的時候，一定會確認他的狀況……"],["謝委員龍介：不要說放心，而是要讓臺灣的鄉親放心啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們的弟兄姐妹在這件事的處理上都很努力，很努力……"],["謝委員龍介：好啦！好啦！弟兄姊妹很多啦！現在再掉一次就很難看了，不用讓我放心，而是讓全民放心，好嗎？裝備檢查要落實，這我沒騙你們，隨時會再發生啦！對不對？因為我們有訓練，入侵中線越多，我們的訓練、應對就會越多，而這些越多，意外就會發生，如果再發生出勤飛出去，又拉不起來的狀況，那個時候就不好意思了，好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：但是我們跟海巡的合作很密切，在這一次……"],["謝委員龍介：好、好、好。有關死刑這件事情，大法官很偉大，大法官在憲法上的解釋，什麼叫憲法的解釋？我們的憲法是不是五權憲法啊？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然現在是五權的體制。"],["謝委員龍介：大法官為什麼要侵犯立法院的權責？他是吃飽撐著？我在這裡公開宣告大法官的憲法解釋是違憲的，「食飯坩中央」，不聆聽百姓的聲音，說死刑合憲，這叫作不當的心理，他們的用意就是要說死刑是違憲的。你的好朋友──賴總統清德兄一上來就說這個要聽從民意。有夠厲害！我們坦白說，他們真的是菁英中的菁英，先跟你說死刑合憲，之後再來歪來歪去、歪來歪去的解釋，解釋地「不答不七」，就是要經過三審、11位法官都同意，如果有1個不同意就不能判，按照他的解釋沒有一個人會死的，所以臺灣今天已經進到實質廢除死刑，還在那邊裝什麼呢？「漚梨子裝蘋果，漚鹹魚裝成生魚片」，沒有用！這些大法官要面對人民的考驗，現在依照他們的解釋之後，就換到你們了，對這些37個死刑犯，當時的判定我們是依照什麼把他關進監獄裡？部長，你知道吧，是不是按照第一百四十八條第一項來收容他的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：監獄行刑法第一百四十八條第一項繼續收容。"],["謝委員龍介：收容有沒有期限？"],["鄭部長銘謙：收容是沒有期限。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有期限嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為他是待執行的……"],["謝委員龍介：對、對！收容是沒有期限，因為他要等執行嘛！這樣我們的總長可以按照大法官解釋提起非常上訴嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：37個死刑犯就是由最高檢察署來做一個審核。"],["謝委員龍介：然後最高法院如果把他撤銷、發回，會這樣嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要看那個個案。"],["謝委員龍介：有可能嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個有可能。"],["謝委員龍介：有嘛！再來，如果是這樣發回之後，這些人就會變成案件未確定的狀態，是嗎？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個確定判決撤銷的話就會……"],["謝委員龍介：發回之後就是他的案件還沒確定，是不是？"],["鄭部長銘謙：在審理中的案件。"],["謝委員龍介：好，這樣還可以收容他嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是要依照刑事訴訟法來做重新羈押的一個……"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦！重新羈押的未確定嘛！所以你們是說希望、建議……"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以是要得到刑事訴訟羈押的制度……"],["謝委員龍介：你們有說喔！你們說建議法院繼續羈押他，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個檢察官會建議法院要繼續羈押。"],["謝委員龍介：法院如果不同意呢？院長，他們就放出來了欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以跟委員報告，這個是不是發回、發回會做什麼判決……"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：裁定是一半一半啦！"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦！所有的問題……你不要說一半一半，這37個人都是極兇惡之徒，但是在大法官的解釋就說應不至死，大法官就是這樣想的，可惡！被他們殺害的那六十幾個人的人權在哪裡？他說要三審所有11位法官都要同意、yes，才能夠判死刑，這違法耶！部長，如果要說人權兩公約，為什麼無期徒刑跟有期徒刑不用全部的法官都同意就能夠判無期徒刑？這樣有違憲嗎？對不對？為什麼獨獨死刑要全部的法官都同意？說實在的，為了要配合民進黨、貴黨要來挽救選票，不要忤逆84%的民意，解釋得「不答不七」，說實在的，法院如果非常上訴之後，確定了，那這37個裡面，當初有一致決的有幾個你知道嗎？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要最高檢察署來調閱，我們會把卷送給……來做一個審核。"],["謝委員龍介：大法官解釋後你們沒去調？"],["鄭部長銘謙：另外這個一致決的話，這個要向……"],["謝委員龍介：大法官解釋後你們沒去調？"],["鄭部長銘謙：評議部……"],["謝委員龍介：大法官解釋後你們沒去調？還沒調嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在要陸續來進行。"],["謝委員龍介：還沒調，好。我聽最高法院，這37個裡面總共有幾個人是有一致決的，你知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這要調評議部來審核。"],["謝委員龍介：所以你也不知道就對了？這些人有的已經關二十幾年了，部長，已經關滿無期徒刑的徒刑了，現在如果再審，如果沒有5個法官都把他判死刑，他就可以申請假釋，部長是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：依照現行的法律，無期徒刑假釋期要25年。"],["謝委員龍介：這些人就已經關25年了，你聽不懂嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，不是25年就可以假釋，只是達到假釋的一個執行的門檻而已。"],["謝委員龍介：對啦！就是他可以申請了嘛！對不對？依法他可以申請假釋。再來，37件裡面，這37個死刑犯有幾個人在三審時有言詞辯論的，你知道嗎？現在大法官說如果三審沒有言詞辯論，是不能判他死刑的喔！這37個有幾個有言詞辯論？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要調卷來做一個具體個案的審核。"],["謝委員龍介：他判完你不就要問了嗎？我跟你說，司法院那個廳長就公開說了，37個裡面只有5個人有言詞辯論，對不對？院長，這樣表示另外那32個不能判死刑耶！確定不能判死刑，這5個還不一定喔，還可以再訴喔！這樣不是很可惡！大法官是明知故犯耶，你要放過他？我跟你說，傷害到臺灣人民的感情太深了啦！如果要人權，你不就應該說從此以後有期徒刑、無期徒刑，所有的刑事的刑度全都要3個法官同意，你不就要這樣解釋，法律才有一致性、人權才有一致性，現在是怎樣，死刑犯有人權，有期徒刑的人就沒有人權？解釋成這樣耶！你聽得下去嗎？院長，你聽得下去嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我回答一個中性的問題，剝奪生命權跟剝奪自由權確實是不一樣，他們採取比較高的標準，是針對剝奪生命權的權利啦！但是這個是絕對值得社會再討論，剛才你說有5位，沒錯，101年以後……"],["謝委員龍介：為什麼解釋……"],["卓院長榮泰：依照訴訟法是要言詞辯論……"],["謝委員龍介：應該退到本院，由立法院來制定新的法律，而不是他說的算，所以我說他違憲啦！借荊州、霸荊州，現在是怎樣？大法官衣服都穿不下了，叫他重做一套，這麼大啊！跟你說這個有時候怨嘆啦！百姓實在是心在痛，對不對？現在再訴訟下去，我先跟你說，部長，遇到了啦！你也要面對啦！這些如果再訴訟，重判判無期徒刑，要釋放了，要帶他去哪裡釋放，你知道嗎？帶去司法院釋放，叫他先進去跟這些大法官道謝，這些死刑犯如果要釋放，把他放在司法院啦！叫他先去跟這些大法官道謝、感謝一下，但對這些被害者情何以堪。","再來，院長，能源政策你還是沒辦法改變，你們繼續要維持2025年非核家園，達到目標後才要來檢討，這樣讓臺灣延宕差不多三年多至四年，再度恢復核能會賠差不多九千億至一兆兩千億的預算，這是全民要共同付出的代價。你那天有去七股看一個太陽能光電場，有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["謝委員龍介：你去看的那個案場有合法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：那個案場算起來是比較順利的一個案場，但是還有一些接下來的程序要再完成，他當場有跟我說還有一些……"],["謝委員龍介：他有跟你說嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員龍介：還沒完全合法就對了，為什麼你會去看那一案場，你知道嗎？誰跟你介紹的？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是經濟部建議的幾個地方，我們決定要去這個案場。"],["謝委員龍介：經濟部！那間就是賴總統清德兄的好朋友。"],["卓院長榮泰：我去之前真的不知道。"],["謝委員龍介：事後知道就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我去之前真的不知道。"],["謝委員龍介：我知道你之前不知道，但是你去的時候，他們有跟你說，清德跟他們很好嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，沒有這樣說。"],["謝委員龍介：臺南只有你去的七股，七股的面積是110平方公里，已經有種電的，你知道有多少嗎？差不多15平方公里，等於說七股裡面就有15%在種電。北門叫做兩個太陽，七股叫做3個太陽。你那天去的時候，里長他們家的客廳41度，我11月快12月去的時候，里長他們家的客廳39度，3個太陽。光一個七股就已經達1GW了，我們臺南市已經超過4.2GW了，這樣還要再繼續做？在蔡英文總統任內只起訴一起案件，圖利91億，現在這些太陽能光電場的地底下有人埋爐碴，你知道嗎？你知道嗎？你不知道嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：埋什麼？"],["謝委員龍介：爐碴啦！一魚兩、三吃，為什麼？因為埋了，上面搭了太陽能板，合約和台電簽約20年，你們誰敢去挖？沒有人敢去挖，檢察官也不一定敢挖下去，挖下去如果沒有呢？對不對？因為現在都會打樁，樁都打好了。我如果有機會當市長，我會去挖，因為當時里長跟在地人來檢舉，就是說底下已經埋爐碴了，他爐碴埋好了，賺一筆錢後就賣給你，你來做光電，光電沒違法喔！你來做剛好就埋進去，光電就在爐碴上面。你上任以來到現在，光電的弊案這麼多，你還沒辦半件，我不知道有沒有在查，你們都跟我說有、有在查，院長，我希望你做一個總檢討，第一，要總量管制。第二，在申請的時候要有統一規範，你們經濟部說這是地方權責，地方權責就會官商勾結、接受性招待，有去賄賂的、有去打通關係的，就讓它通過，如果沒有的就擱置，就是這樣，臺南市的局長被關就是這樣來的。中央不制定明確嘛，你完全沒有一個明確規範，所以造成臺南市、地方的這些官員可以上下其手。"],["卓院長榮泰：我是不是可以報告委員兩句話就好？"],["謝委員龍介：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：第一，我那天去到現場第一句話就說，如果每場都這麼順遂，我就都不用來了，我知道有很多問題；第二，我覺得現在經濟部跟農業部預計要做的地方太多，要減少，沒必要的、困難的不要去做，要減少地方去做。"],["謝委員龍介：你不用跟我解釋這些，我瞭解。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我那天在現場說的話。"],["謝委員龍介：我瞭解你去看的意思就是……"],["卓院長榮泰：有剛才你所說的爐碴，我要求我們的單位要去主動調查。"],["謝委員龍介：會挑這場去，最主要就是因為要背書，不是針對他背書，就是說這場比較合法，我們坦白說。"],["卓院長榮泰：每場都這樣，我就不用去了，我知道有問題。"],["謝委員龍介：你知道有問題，為什麼不辦？問題是什麼，為什麼不辦了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我在現場有講四個方法，第一要透明，第二要簡化……"],["謝委員龍介：我說給你聽，你知不知道2000年時全世界的黑面琵鷺有幾隻，你知道嗎？剩差不多200隻，經過我們臺南這些做魚塭的，在收魚塭的時候都會留一些給黑面琵鷺吃，照理說魚塭收完要曬池才能再放，他沒有，他等到黑面琵鷺飛回去北方以後，才開始整理魚塭重新飼養，到去年、到今年年初總共6,988隻。"],["卓院長榮泰：非常好。"],["謝委員龍介：全世界比去年多355隻，來這裡過冬的統計起來，但是全世界多355隻，臺灣減少91隻，臺南市減少191隻，為什麼？因為電種得很多，現在屏東多好幾隻，濁水溪口多好幾隻，嘉義、臺南、高雄的黑面琵鷺減少，這就是生態已經受到影響。院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以那天我去現場看，我有跟他說沒必要做那麼多的面積，可以減少。"],["謝委員龍介：不是啦！你要做一個管制，你要有一個明確的說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！"],["謝委員龍介：你總量沒有管制，到最後黑面琵鷺等等這些候鳥都不再來的時候，就表示臺灣這塊土地已經沒有用了，你我都很清楚，我們為什麼不能疼惜這塊土地，對不對？","再來就是說，在這樣的過程，現在北門還有一場，有一個人一次申請50間公司要來做太陽能，都是能源公司，部長，你知道嗎？你是經濟部的次長，你知道嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：經濟部。"],["謝委員龍介：不知道喔？一次申請48間公司要來做太陽能，像雲豹公司申請18間子公司，五天公司被起訴1間、申請9間，現在這個申請四十幾間是要怎麼樣？是要逃稅還是要洗錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，會後我請次長跟委員請教，你再將這個資料提供，我們馬上來處理。"],["謝委員龍介：媒體都有報導了，在北門，你們雲嘉南風管處的處長也說不宜再開發了，所以我才跟你說要總量管制，要怎麼管制，你們專業的去考慮，我不會去介入，我不會說我家這裡不要用，我不會這樣，要全面去檢討，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我那天在現場就已經說到這個重點。"],["謝委員龍介：你去七股，結果你沒有去後壁庄。手指頭夾到每隻都會痛，我請教你，無論是住在北部、住在南部、住在中部，都是你的子民，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：都是國家的主人。"],["謝委員龍介：淹水的時候，你們說50公分要補助，賴總統清德兄說：過去30年做不好，我3年就做好了，各位臺南鄉親，從今天開始，我們臺南市不會再淹水了。結果還是每年都淹，後壁……"],["卓院長榮泰：面積有減少。"],["謝委員龍介：面積減少，淹水淹比較高，你知道嗎？關於後壁區我在今年8月有去控告，我不知道你們有沒有辦？地檢署有沒有辦？照理說不必淹水，結果是怎麼樣？堤防潰堤，崩塌了差不多20公尺，潰堤了！"],["陳次長正祺：沒有潰堤啦，那是溢流、滿過去。"],["謝委員龍介：潰堤啦！滿過去？"],["卓院長榮泰：是說八掌溪那件事，對不對？"],["陳次長正祺：是，那是滿過去。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，溢堤啦，那是溢堤。"],["謝委員龍介：什麼溢堤，溢堤歸溢堤啦。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長跟你說明已經有……"],["謝委員龍介：潰堤跟溢堤我會看不懂？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這部分臺南地檢署已經分案偵辦中。"],["謝委員龍介：這樣就好了，對不對？潰堤你跟我說溢堤，次長，你有去看嗎？現在崩塌之後大家怎樣說呢？所以你是經濟部的嘛？"],["陳次長正祺：是。"],["謝委員龍介：他說這不是經濟部做的！不是經濟部就是臺南市政府做的？臺南市政府說這不是我們做的！這樣是水利會做的？水利會說也不是我們做的！大家都推得一乾二淨，所以我才要去告，讓檢察官查看看是誰做的！哪有用水泥建造堤防沒有綁鋼筋，沒有綁鋼筋耶！我問你，下個月再下大雨會再潰堤嗎？一定會再潰堤！他現在修補這塊有綁鋼筋，這20公尺有綁，但前後沒綁，這樣要怎麼辦？一天到晚跟我說這些，對不對？你也要去看一下！部長，檢察官有在查了吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["謝委員龍介：要還鄉親一個……院長，我告訴你，整個村莊剛好淹150公分，所以要跟市長要1,200個便當，市長說什麼？震怒啦！活動中心只有60個，為什麼要1,200個便當？他不知道說一千多個都淹水了，他們家的廚房都淹水了、都不能出外買便當！情況是這樣，你知道嗎？你也沒去看。我想要跟院長拜託一下，多幫忙這些災民──150公分的災民，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：八掌溪那個堤防我有去看，我知道那個情形，現在臺南地檢署已經分案，我們就希望儘速查辦清楚。"],["謝委員龍介：那補助呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：補助已經有……"],["謝委員龍介：他們就照50公分的補助，你聽不懂嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：還有欠缺的地方我想由經濟部再去瞭解。"],["謝委員龍介：你有要瞭解嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：我們會跟委員報告。"],["卓院長榮泰：趕快去跟委員請教。"],["謝委員龍介：好。"],["主席：謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第16位李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","林國成","陳瑩","洪孟楷","黃秀芳","謝龍介","李柏毅","賴士葆","許智傑","黃健豪","陳素月"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-09-24"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00003","1137501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 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他們希望你替我們台南市的農業產品多多推廣"},{"start":52.864,"end":55.645,"text":"這我告訴你,這只是熱情點,不要喝過,別人都不要喝過請後面"},{"start":87.262,"end":87.902,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":132.532,"end":146.795,"text":"非常甜蜜這是台南市山頂野生的番蜜真的烹飪﹑農民﹑肥民經期不好希望議長你的關討﹐可以多多為中南部﹐這些農業產品﹐推廣﹐選一些﹐上色的氣氛"},{"start":159.619,"end":168.141,"text":"加一段時間的詳細這都是委員希望我在這裡提供表達他們真無奈的心聲蕊哥啊是你在打捏像一個家庭一樣人家說家合辦事興啦家不合辦事情"},{"start":192.028,"end":209.776,"text":"如果你的個案﹐互相定顧﹐互相凶殺﹐其實﹐傷害的是你沒有錯我沒有認為若清廷會勸他去說﹐這個做總統﹐他做到總統就對﹐他不會勸他叫這個個案﹐修理這個個案﹐他不是這種人是這我們很清楚對第一﹐不是做總統的意思"},{"start":224.04,"end":225.121,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":249.724,"end":266.432,"text":"沒有啦,我們倆的背後,我們倆的寒暖情在背後啦除了你們副委長以外,可能沒有人比我們倆的寒暖情好我講的你可能聽得懂啦所以何必在那裡,在鳳堤民燈前,在清唱意思是什麼?總統有感冒過,你不很清"},{"start":274.431,"end":287.281,"text":"我希望這件事不要再發生了是 是 這絕對要再發生這就在高鐵 會影響到你呢對 對這一定要請到內閣的國安 能夠真的謹修自己這個分寸對政策清清楚楚的處理我們的戰鬥機 發生各種非英文挑機對不對 這件事你知道嗎是"},{"start":304.244,"end":325.281,"text":"不幸當時大廈的飛行員跳機不適是有救救捏結果落海 跳機不適被你們救死了到底是國防部軍方還是海巡 光靠海面的巡邏到底是怎麼協調的啦總比檢查是怎麼處理的"},{"start":330.794,"end":344.017,"text":"委員報告,這件事在處理的那些東西,最快的時間來都有僵硬,就是他的狀況,我是覺得我愛想...我們要尊重第一層,機會高,跟工作的,這個...沒有啦,不要再尊重了啦,你說我應付這個也沒意思嘛,我跟你說,總比的檢查要怎麼落實啊?"},{"start":355.848,"end":370.32,"text":"你不一定知道,我們訓練一個肥胸丸,到他成為一個合計的肥胸丸,我們都要花多少錢?這要用經費來算,不得了,但是我覺得那是有價的。實際的經費,以美軍給我們的標準,我們訓練一個合計的肥胸丸,合理說差不多在那550萬、780萬的美金。等於說我們開啟他的新股定價,到他可以買。"},{"start":386.583,"end":406.673,"text":"應該是差不多在那1億6千萬至1億8千萬 不然我講這樣說不對所以會議員救起來的時候 大家心裡都覺得很安慰都覺得很安慰 所以我們尊重第一線 工作我們開這麼多錢去訓練一個合計的會議員目的是什麼是要保護我們的國家嘛 修復經濟嘛結果他下去 救到不得不遲"},{"start":414.827,"end":438.675,"text":"那是來講全國際都是給我們浪費的,笑話的這補兌有說明一下嗎?補兌我請教你,要怎麼挽救?就是這些裝備、警察要怎麼落實?我們有六台直升機有夜間搜救的能力,所以我們的這個能力是有,但是委員講的就是說"},{"start":439.83,"end":444.514,"text":"所以我剛才在跟你說醫療對裝備檢測要怎麼落實對不對對,裝備的妥善率這真的是要減少改進"},{"start":467.216,"end":487.913,"text":"我告訴你不要關起來 因為現在中華很緊張嘛我們每一個裝逼在來都不簡單 都被審判過多次嘛你如果好好檢查 維修你看看那是大老人 你要收罪嗎 你覺得要收罪那老人在12月聽就對了"},{"start":490.822,"end":501.487,"text":"他在跳繩後有一個環在裡面的土地海水不是陰溼的,都是熄溫溼的大家互相勉勵,我是覺得這很重要總比的檢測如果沒有落實這件事已經大家都看在眼裡了,潘石居自己指責"},{"start":511.295,"end":522.344,"text":"委員請你放心,我們在救人的時候,一定要看人民的狀況放心,要給台灣的鄉親放心啦我們的弟兄姊妹在這裡處理很努力現在又落在一邊,很難看啦不用我放心,給專民放心好不好"},{"start":540.004,"end":544.968,"text":"總比檢測要落實這我沒有陪你隨時會發生因為我們有訓練"},{"start":551.365,"end":572.039,"text":"侵入中選入席,我們的訓練領隊就入席入席,議會就發聲,再發聲,再敲鈴,再背又拉不起來那個時候就抱歉了,好不好?但是這個,我們跟海巡的合作不是這麼密切啦,這邊...私刑這個事情啦齁,來法官很偉大的來法官,憤怨的解說"},{"start":581.98,"end":596.112,"text":"什麼叫做憲法的解釋我們的憲法是不是柯款憲法啊 議長當然現在是柯款的體制但是我現在想要侵犯立法院的規則在18小時內我們在這裡公開"},{"start":607.148,"end":618.513,"text":"施行合憲這叫作不動的心理啦因落中就是要說施行是危險的把你的好朋友 老總統請到那裡一起來說這要聽民意"},{"start":635.51,"end":658.67,"text":"有狗狗 他們真的是經營中的經營 但坦白說先跟你說施行 合憲 後來改水外來外去 外出外來外去改水不搭不清就要三星十月的福光都同意 一個沒同意不能放 按照他的改水 沒一個會死"},{"start":661.243,"end":672.748,"text":"所以臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝圖私刑臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝圖私刑臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝圖私刑臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝圖私刑臺灣今天已經入侵到1111 輝圖私刑"},{"start":691.648,"end":707.038,"text":"施政法律148條第1項繼續收容收容有沒有期限收容是沒有期限沒有期限嘛因為它是待執行的執行的對對對 收容是沒有因為要短時間嘛好不好那這樣"},{"start":716.062,"end":720.605,"text":"這個37的死刑犯就是由最高檢察署來做一個審核這個要看那個個案這個有可能"},{"start":745.22,"end":746.481,"text":"發言委員：謝龍介"},{"start":772.591,"end":773.111,"text":"委員長施政報告"},{"start":796.874,"end":808.683,"text":"議員報告,這是不是發回,發回會做什麼破罪,裁定一半一半所謂的問題,沒有啦,你不要說一半一半這30...這些人都是極凶惡之徒但是在大法國的改正就說他們不地勢大法國就是這樣想的"},{"start":821.297,"end":832.701,"text":"兵殺害了那六十幾個人的人權在哪裡?他說什麼?就要三十五十一的法官都中動議YES!可以破死人這是違反的沒有對嗎?如果要說人權你能說什麼?"},{"start":843.117,"end":851.08,"text":"如果有什麼不去投票和有去投票 不用宣佈的法官都同意 就可以破不去投票這樣危險嗎 對不對 為什麼独特私營的宣佈法官都同意這實在說 為了要配合民進黨 整黨要來挽救選票 不可以誣蔑84%的民意 解說又不達不清"},{"start":873.174,"end":879.42,"text":"一來講的齁 歡迎啦 若是非常上手之後啦 確定啦 確定啦齁這37個裡面 當期是有一定割的 有一定割的有幾個 你知不知道 保證"},{"start":894.446,"end":901.331,"text":"這個要最高檢察署來調閱那個我們會把卷送給最高檢察來做一個審核這個一致決的話這個要向平益部現在要陸續的進行我聽那個最高法院"},{"start":924.526,"end":938.871,"text":"這37人當中有幾個人是有異地割的你知不知道這要調評一部來審查所以你若不知道就對了這些人已經有20幾年了,沒錯嗎?20幾年,已經拐摸無機都行的都行"},{"start":951.258,"end":969.944,"text":"現在人家若沒有財神若沒有國會法官都給他破死刑他這次可以申請假刑 普通人是不是這樣這個依照現行的法律那個無期徒刑要假釋其實要25年25年跟委員報告不是25年就可以假釋只是達到假釋的一個對啦 那就是他可以申請對不對"},{"start":977.339,"end":991.867,"text":"議法﹚他可以申請加息﹚再來﹚37條內﹚這37個施行案﹚有幾個人﹚在3省有原書辯論的你知不知道?你現在大法廣告喔﹚如果3省沒原書辯論你是不是不能破他的施行喔?這37個有幾個﹚有原書辯論的?"},{"start":1001.054,"end":1009.356,"text":"這個要有調卷來做一個具體的個案的一個宣言37個裡面只有5個人有言詞辯論阿對不對 一定這樣 表示另外那30個人不能破事捏肯定不能破事 還不一定喔還可以再鎖喔這樣不好喔 阿這台火鍋他在賣 賣低過分捏"},{"start":1033.356,"end":1059.516,"text":"你會不會放過他?這我告訴你 傷害了台灣人民的感情最深的如果要領權 你們就應該說 最初以後有機都行 無機都行 所有的行事 行動 都要三個法官同意你們就要這樣解釋 法律不夠一地情 領權不夠一地情現在為什麼?"},{"start":1059.516,"end":1061.538,"text":"需要法律領權 有機行就沒有領權"},{"start":1064.008,"end":1074.255,"text":"我回答一個中性的問題啦齁不斷拾命款跟不斷主流款其實是不一樣的因為差數比較高的標準是針對不斷拾命款的這個管理啦但是這個是特地黨的社會過討論剛才你說有五位沒問題一百多年以後他才有所想法是要議員主辯論議員該替代婚姻"},{"start":1092.11,"end":1098.335,"text":"由你發言：你製定新的法律：不是他講的尊聖啦：所以我講他違憲啦做經濟 罷經濟 現在是怎樣?大法官都請他三口都請不下去 叫他訂做一宿 要大喔?你講這個有人生喔 萬壇阿 百姓是要 心在痛啦 對不對"},{"start":1121.038,"end":1135.291,"text":"你現在再說下去,我現在先跟你說,沒錯嗎?答對了啦,你還要面對啦?這次再說下去就對了啦,頂撥普普基督教徒,要釋放啦你坐在那裡把他綁,你知道嗎?坐在那裡把他綁,叫他先在那裡把大法關閉就行了這是私刑犯啦,如果要綁啦,把他綁成死犯啦"},{"start":1148.137,"end":1155.923,"text":"叫他先去把這台大和國的世代之下滾掉一下對這比海這情何以堪啊好 來反正 因為這樣臨環政策還沒辦法改變我們繼續要維持李鴻 李柯尼 揮霍齡的家庭每個人都不要了 還要來檢討這樣讓我們台灣就對了齁"},{"start":1179.073,"end":1192.86,"text":"沿途差不多3年多至4年的再度恢復婚姻﹐會料差不多9千億至1.2千億的無損這是專門要共同付出的代價那麼你那一天有去Chicco﹐看一個太陽營的場﹐有沒有﹐有你去看那張有沒有合法"},{"start":1207.95,"end":1220.576,"text":"那張算起來是比較順利的一張但是還有一些耍弱的延遲要再完成他當場有跟我說他還有一些...他有跟你說嗎?對阿伯完全學我就對了你為什麼去看那張你怎麼知道?誰跟你介紹的?這是經濟部上幾個地方來的,我經常要去那個地方經濟部?那間就是老總統清廳的好朋友"},{"start":1238.834,"end":1250.201,"text":"我去晉晉真的不知道我去晉晉真的不知道我知道你晉晉不知道 但是你去的時候 人家有跟你說 穿著很好嗎沒有這樣說我台南喔 台南跟你去的七角七角的面積是1百10平方公里啦已經有晉天了 你知不知道多少差不多15平方公里 等於說一個七角裡面有15%的晉天"},{"start":1269.575,"end":1285.18,"text":"辦門叫這兩個太陽七個叫這三個太陽你去一天的時間你六人道的客廳四十一度了我十二月要十二月起的時候你六人道的客廳三十九度了三個太陽一個七個已經達到超過一個幾個月我們台南市已經超過四點二幾個月你還要做"},{"start":1299.875,"end":1313.305,"text":"要再做在川元文總統的臨來 給我起訴一件道理91頁現主席 這裡的太陽明發電廠會停會停 有人帶路照你敢知道你敢知道你不知道啦 帶什麼路照 爐渣啦"},{"start":1329.441,"end":1354.835,"text":"一餘兩三次啊啊為什麼?因為台了啊 頂頭太空營大了啊合約簽20年 跟台東的簽20年 你們什麼人敢去跟他合?沒有人敢去跟他合?檢察官也不一定跟他合了耶合了也沒有耶 對不對?因為我都說拆了嘛 拆了才好啊我如果有機會做市長 我會跟他合"},{"start":1356.923,"end":1369.029,"text":"因為同期時 立法會跟人們在地來檢估就是說 會不會已經帶邏輯了他邏輯帶好了 賺一條錢 給我賣你你來做光電 光電不違法喔你來做 那給我帶了 光電就在邏輯上面你起來的年齡 到現在 光電的幣額這麼多你還沒有辦法走"},{"start":1385.131,"end":1386.532,"text":"我希望你做一個重檢討 第一要重量關節"},{"start":1399.153,"end":1418.957,"text":"對你 就是說在你申請的時候 要通一規範啦你經濟部不是嗎 地方譴責 地方譴責就會過重糾結了接受性招待啦 有來偶世的 有來怕私下樓的 我把你通過 如果沒有的 我把你擱置 是這樣 第11屆的局長會議關 是這樣來的你中間沒有要制定一個命檻嘛 你完全沒有做命檻去規範"},{"start":1427.492,"end":1442.102,"text":"所以責勝 台南市 地方的官員 會當上下機首我先可以報告 委員兩句話就好我一天去現場 我第一句說 如果每天都存在這麼的損失 我都不用來了 我知道有很多問題第二 我覺得說"},{"start":1444.985,"end":1458.958,"text":"現在經濟報告由龍介報告所寬的暗算的稍看 要去檢討不必要的 困難的不要去做 檢討的地方要去做我了解你去看藝術有剛才你說的爐渣 我要求現在我們在電視台主動調查你去看藝術 會去經濟中"},{"start":1467.071,"end":1477.658,"text":"最主要的是因為 要給他背書 不是針對他背書啦 就是說這張被告合法啦 咱們坦白講啊啊你這樣我就不用去寫了 我知道有問題啊你知道有問題為什麼不辦啊 問題是什麼不辦啊我告訴你聽啦 你敢知道兩千 兩千年以前啊"},{"start":1491.857,"end":1505.384,"text":"全世界黑麵皮肉有幾隻你知不知道全台灣有兩百隻經過我們台南這裡做雲吶在燒雲吶的時候都流一瓦給黑麵皮吃照你講雲吶燒完我會拍拼我還要再拼喔他沒有 他等黑麵皮皮回去爆香之後他才開始整理雲吶還要定期到九年到今年 年初了"},{"start":1522.54,"end":1543.67,"text":"隆重辣青九百八十八隻非常好 幾年 比幾年就對了 計三百五十五隻 全世界啦就來規定一下 統計起來但是 全世界計三百五十五隻台灣 減九十一隻台南市 減一百九十一隻為什麼 因為電競有夠多現在屏東 計九十六隻"},{"start":1551.923,"end":1557.187,"text":"這就是生態已經去受到影響你得做一個關節 你得一個名牌的算命嘛"},{"start":1573.575,"end":1581.763,"text":"你從來沒有關閉到要當歐美納杯﹐這個訊號不再來的時候﹐就是表示台灣這塊土地已經倒下去了﹐你看我們都很清楚﹐我們為什麼不能停下來這塊土地﹐對不對﹐再來就是說﹐在這樣的過程﹐我們現在﹐還有一點﹐"},{"start":1599.366,"end":1599.866,"text":"發言委員：謝龍介"},{"start":1630.48,"end":1656.558,"text":"還是要施政?主席 委員 我請署長 請委員請講 你在總結的資料 我馬上來處理每一套都有報啦嘛 齁 在辦盲啊 你們的分家人 方官署的署長 也說不宜再開發了啦所以我才跟你說 總量管制 要怎麼管制 人轉行 人去靠路 我不可以跟你介入啦 我不會說 欸 我到這裡不用用了 我不會這樣啦"},{"start":1658.752,"end":1667.72,"text":"專門去檢討嘛對不對是 我在現場我就已經說了這個重點你去檢討結果你沒有去後面爭我請教你從頭到尾幾幾天無論大里北大里南大里東都是你的住民是不是這樣都是國家的住人淹水的時候您說50公分要補助"},{"start":1683.168,"end":1710.191,"text":"老總統聖殿下說過去30年做不完事我30年做好了各位台南鄉親對今天開始我們台南市不會再喝水了我還是特地再喝?民宿有減酒啦後面民宿減酒喝水喝得更高你知不知道後面哭啦我一經年的被委我已經控告了我不知道你們有辦了沒有地檢署有辦了沒有"},{"start":1712.133,"end":1718.039,"text":"叫你說不用喝水,那叫什麼?提供綁花綁花那是議題反正議題啦"},{"start":1732.923,"end":1735.044,"text":"這不是經濟沒做的"},{"start":1762.486,"end":1784.089,"text":"阿不是經濟報告阿 台南市政府做 台南市政府 阿這不是我做的阿這樣主委會做的 主委會說也不是我做的大家都拿到你那裡 所以我還去找阿 跟他觀察看誰會做的啦那後裔的人們控體署沒白提阿 沒白提阿勒 我問你"},{"start":1785.234,"end":1786.716,"text":"一百五公分一百五十公分"},{"start":1811.561,"end":1814.062,"text":"巴掌心的帖文我給你看"},{"start":1862.28,"end":1863.04,"text":"謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢謝謝卓院長的備詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:46:59.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:00.015000+08:00","text":"主席，請院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:01.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:07.260000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:07.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:12.243000+08:00","text":"院長，今天比較輕鬆一點。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:12.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:12.523000+08:00","text":"謝委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:13.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:24.551000+08:00","text":"我來代表臺南市的農漁民送你一個東西，拜託你，希望你多多推廣我們臺南市的農漁產品。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:27.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:47:30.465000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，這只有賴清德有喝過，別人都沒喝過。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:47:30.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:48:08.998500+08:00","text":"你試試看，只有賴清德在7年前有喝過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:48:08.998500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:48:47.532000+08:00","text":"先吃個甜甜的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:48:47.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:48:48.012000+08:00","text":"非常甜蜜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:48:50.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:49:18.380000+08:00","text":"這是臺南市山上野生的蜂蜜，很多蜂農跟農民、漁民因為景氣不好，希望院長你的高度可以多多為中南部這些農漁產品推廣，減少一些相殺的氣氛，多一些賺錢的商機，這是農漁民希望我在這裡替他們表達他們很無奈的心聲。","quality":0.641},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:49:18.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:49:22.621000+08:00","text":"內閣是你在帶領，就像一個家庭一樣，人家說，家和萬事興，家不和萬世窮。","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:49:47.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:49:56.052000+08:00","text":"如果你的閣員互相「定古」，互相「相殺」，其實受到傷害的是你。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:49:56.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:49:58.033000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:49:58.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:03.935000+08:00","text":"我不認為賴清德會刻意去說，一個已經當到總統的人不會刻意叫閣員修理閣員，他不是這種人，我們都很清楚。對。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:03.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:04.756000+08:00","text":"第一，不是賴總統的意思。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:04.756000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:12.749600+08:00","text":"第二，也不是院長的意思，這樣是誰的意思？","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:12.749600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:20.743200+08:00","text":"就是自己「三八裝賢慧」，我今天修理陳時中對我有什麼幫忙？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:20.743200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:28.736800+08:00","text":"凸顯你和賴清德有交情這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:28.736800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:36.730400+08:00","text":"沒有，他們這裡面誰的交情會比我們兩個和他還要好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:36.730400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:44.724000+08:00","text":"委員的交情比較好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:44.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:50:46.085000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，我們兩個一樣好，我們兩個和賴清德一樣好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:50:50.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:00.312000+08:00","text":"除了副院長之外，可能沒有人比我們兩個和他的交情還要好，我說這樣你可能聽得懂，所以何必在皇帝的面前爭寵，這個意思是怎樣？","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:00.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:01.292000+08:00","text":"總統有罵過他了，那你不是很囂張！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:09.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:11.292000+08:00","text":"我希望這個事情不要再發生了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:11.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:12.413000+08:00","text":"是，這絕對還要再……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:14.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:14.655000+08:00","text":"否則到最後會影響到你。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:15.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:19.099000+08:00","text":"對，一定要請內閣的閣員真的謹守自己的分寸，對政策清清楚楚嚴肅處理。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:19.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:21.360000+08:00","text":"再來，看到上回我們的戰鬥機發生故障，飛行員跳機，對不對？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:21.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:22.261000+08:00","text":"這件事情你知道嗎？是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:39.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:54.517000+08:00","text":"不幸中的大幸，飛行員跳機沒死的案例是很少的，結果跳機落海沒死，差一點被你們救死，到底是國防部、軍方還是海巡？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:57.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:51:59.481000+08:00","text":"港口、海面的巡弋到底是怎麼協調的？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:51:59.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:00.261000+08:00","text":"裝備檢查是誰在處理的？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:05.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:12.576000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這件事情在處理的當時，在最快的時間內都有掌握到他的狀況，我覺得海巡……","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:12.576000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:13.576000+08:00","text":"你們救不起來，還叫他跳下去又用游的，還好他剛好會游泳。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:12.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:14.496000+08:00","text":"我們要尊重第一線指揮官跟工作弟兄的處理。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:15.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:16.917000+08:00","text":"不要再講尊重了，你應付我這個也沒有意思嘛！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:16.917000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:17.937000+08:00","text":"我不是在應付，我有瞭解。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:17.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:30.848000+08:00","text":"我剛才跟你講的，裝備檢查要怎麼落實，你知不知道？","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:30.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:37.333000+08:00","text":"院長不一定知道，我們訓練一個飛行員到他成為合格的飛行員總共要花多少錢，你知道嗎？","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:37.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:52:39.155000+08:00","text":"如果要用經費來算是不得了，但是我覺得那是無價的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:52:39.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:04.985000+08:00","text":"實際的經費，以美軍給我們的標準，我們訓練一個合格的飛行員，合理差不多在550萬至600萬美金，等於我們花在他身上到他可以飛行，應該差不多在1億6,000萬至1億8,000萬，部長，我講的有沒有錯？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:05.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:12.949000+08:00","text":"所以飛行員被救起來的那個時候，大家心裡都覺得很安慰，所以我們尊重第一線工作跟指揮官的處理。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:13.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:15.410000+08:00","text":"我們花這麼多錢訓練一個合格的飛行員，目的是什麼？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:15.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:16.431000+08:00","text":"就是要保護我們的國家，守護疆土。是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:18.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:34.669000+08:00","text":"結果他落海救得「不答不七」，說實在，全世界都在看我們漏氣、笑話。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:35.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:35.349000+08:00","text":"請部長說明一下。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:35.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:37.369000+08:00","text":"部長，我請教你要怎麼挽救？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:38.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:41.751000+08:00","text":"這些裝備檢查要怎麼落實？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:41.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:53.255000+08:00","text":"我們有6台直升機有夜間搜救能力，所以我們是有這個能力，但是委員說的那天直升機的吊籃吊下去之後……","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:53.255000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:54.255000+08:00","text":"纜繩就咬死了，你還說有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:54.255000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:55.255000+08:00","text":"我怎麼會不知道有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:53.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:53.655000+08:00","text":"現在就是要……「嗚？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:53.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:54.655000+08:00","text":"就像囡仔在笑的嗚！」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:54.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:55.655000+08:00","text":"當然這種情形是我們不願意看到的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:54.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:56.972000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才問你，以後對裝備的檢查要怎麼落實，部長？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:53:56.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:53:59.514000+08:00","text":"裝備的妥善率真的是要檢討改進。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:22.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:28.581000+08:00","text":"我跟你講不要開玩笑，因為現在兩岸很緊張，我們每一個裝備進來都不簡單，都是百姓的血汗錢。","quality":0.59},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:31.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:37.869000+08:00","text":"你們如果有好好檢查維修，你看一下，那是因為剛好是夏天，你會不會游泳？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:37.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:41.845500+08:00","text":"他跳傘下來之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:41.845500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:45.822000+08:00","text":"如果是發生在12月天……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:45.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:46.702000+08:00","text":"他跳傘下來有一個……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:46.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:50.024000+08:00","text":"跳到海水裡面，都不是淹死的，而是失溫死的，大家互相勉勵啦！","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:50.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:54:56.487000+08:00","text":"我是覺得這很重要啦，如果沒有落實裝備的檢查，這件事大家已經都看在眼裡，不好意思指責你啦！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:54:56.487000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:01.391000+08:00","text":"大家都很辛苦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:01.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:06.295000+08:00","text":"感謝委員的提醒，這一定是未來要加強的，裝備妥善這個工作一定會加強下去，部長有跟你答應的。好啦！院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:06.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:10.619000+08:00","text":"委員請你放心，我們要救人的時候，一定會確認他的狀況……","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:10.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:12.360000+08:00","text":"不要說放心，而是要讓臺灣的鄉親放心啦！","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:12.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:14.422000+08:00","text":"是，我們的弟兄姐妹在這件事的處理上都很努力，很努力……好啦！好啦！","quality":0.481},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:14.422000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:15.422000+08:00","text":"弟兄姊妹很多啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:14.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:17.164000+08:00","text":"現在再掉一次就很難看了，不用讓我放心，而是讓全民放心，好嗎？","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:35.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:39.507000+08:00","text":"裝備檢查要落實，這我沒騙你們，隨時會再發生啦！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:39.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:40.507000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:55:39.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:55:59.974000+08:00","text":"因為我們有訓練，入侵中線越多，我們的訓練、應對就會越多，而這些越多，意外就會發生，如果再發生出勤飛出去，又拉不起來的狀況，那個時候就不好意思了，好嗎？","quality":0.492},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:01.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:05.438000+08:00","text":"但是我們跟海巡的合作很密切，在這一次……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:05.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:06.438000+08:00","text":"好、好、好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:05.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:17.440000+08:00","text":"有關死刑這件事情，大法官很偉大，大法官在憲法上的解釋，什麼叫憲法的解釋？","quality":0.656},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:17.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:20.423000+08:00","text":"我們的憲法是不是五權憲法啊？院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:20.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:24.607000+08:00","text":"當然現在是五權的體制。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:26.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:29.111000+08:00","text":"大法官為什麼要侵犯立法院的權責？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:29.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:30.892000+08:00","text":"他是吃飽撐著？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:30.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:47.430000+08:00","text":"我在這裡公開宣告大法官的憲法解釋是違憲的，「食飯坩中央」，不聆聽百姓的聲音，說死刑合憲，這叫作不當的心理，他們的用意就是要說死刑是違憲的。","quality":0.344},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:50.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:56:53.493000+08:00","text":"你的好朋友──賴總統清德兄一上來就說這個要聽從民意。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:56:53.493000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:57:12.872000+08:00","text":"有夠厲害！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:57:12.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:57:37.283000+08:00","text":"我們坦白說，他們真的是菁英中的菁英，先跟你說死刑合憲，之後再來歪來歪去、歪來歪去的解釋，解釋地「不答不七」，就是要經過三審、11位法官都同意，如果有1個不同意就不能判，按照他的解釋沒有一個人會死的，所以臺灣今天已經進到實質廢除死刑，還在那邊裝什麼呢？","quality":0.472},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:57:37.283000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:57:45.650000+08:00","text":"「漚梨子裝蘋果，漚鹹魚裝成生魚片」，沒有用！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:57:45.650000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:57:54.017000+08:00","text":"這些大法官要面對人民的考驗，現在依照他們的解釋之後，就換到你們了，對這些37個死刑犯，當時的判定我們是依照什麼把他關進監獄裡？","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:57:54.017000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:02.384000+08:00","text":"部長，你知道吧，是不是按照第一百四十八條第一項來收容他的？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:02.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:10.751000+08:00","text":"監獄行刑法第一百四十八條第一項繼續收容。","quality":0.263},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:10.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:12.852000+08:00","text":"收容有沒有期限？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:13.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:15.454000+08:00","text":"收容是沒有期限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:15.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:16.335000+08:00","text":"沒有期限嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:17.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:18.876000+08:00","text":"因為他是待執行的……對、對！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:18.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:20.758000+08:00","text":"收容是沒有期限，因為他要等執行嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:20.758000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:31.062000+08:00","text":"這樣我們的總長可以按照大法官解釋提起非常上訴嗎？","quality":0.087},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:31.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:34.965000+08:00","text":"37個死刑犯就是由最高檢察署來做一個審核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:34.965000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.965000+08:00","text":"然後最高法院如果把他撤銷、發回，會這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.405000+08:00","text":"這個要看那個個案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.405000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:36.405000+08:00","text":"有可能嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.585000+08:00","text":"這個有可能。有嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:35.585000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:37.243333+08:00","text":"再來，如果是這樣發回之後，這些人就會變成案件未確定的狀態，是嗎？部長。","quality":0.033},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:37.243333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:38.901667+08:00","text":"那個確定判決撤銷的話就會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:38.901667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:40.560000+08:00","text":"發回之後就是他的案件還沒確定，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:40.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:42.218333+08:00","text":"在審理中的案件。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:42.218333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:43.876667+08:00","text":"好，這樣還可以收容他嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:43.876667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:45.535000+08:00","text":"這個是要依照刑事訴訟法來做重新羈押的一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:45.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:47.193333+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:47.193333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:48.851667+08:00","text":"重新羈押的未確定嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:48.851667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:50.510000+08:00","text":"所以你們是說希望、建議……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:50.510000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:52.168333+08:00","text":"所以是要得到刑事訴訟羈押的制度……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:52.168333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:53.826667+08:00","text":"你們有說喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:53.826667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:55.485000+08:00","text":"你們說建議法院繼續羈押他，是不是這樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:55.485000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:57.143333+08:00","text":"那個檢察官會建議法院要繼續羈押。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:57.143333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:58:58.801667+08:00","text":"法院如果不同意呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:58:58.801667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:59:00.460000+08:00","text":"院長，他們就放出來了欸！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:59:00.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:59:55.097000+08:00","text":"所以跟委員報告，這個是不是發回、發回會做什麼判決……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:59:55.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:59:56.097000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T14:59:55.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T14:59:57.038000+08:00","text":"裁定是一半一半啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:59:57.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T14:59:58.038000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T14:59:57.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:03.663000+08:00","text":"所有的問題……你不要說一半一半，這37個人都是極兇惡之徒，但是在大法官的解釋就說應不至死，大法官就是這樣想的，可惡！","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:17.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:18.798000+08:00","text":"被他們殺害的那六十幾個人的人權在哪裡？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:18.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:27.181000+08:00","text":"他說要三審所有11位法官都要同意、yes，才能夠判死刑，這違法耶！","quality":0.37},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:27.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:39.818000+08:00","text":"部長，如果要說人權兩公約，為什麼無期徒刑跟有期徒刑不用全部的法官都同意就能夠判無期徒刑？","quality":0.439},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:41.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:42.238000+08:00","text":"這樣有違憲嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:42.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:42.759000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:42.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:00:44.159000+08:00","text":"為什麼獨獨死刑要全部的法官都同意？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:00:45.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:14.240000+08:00","text":"說實在的，為了要配合民進黨、貴黨要來挽救選票，不要忤逆84%的民意，解釋得「不答不七」，說實在的，法院如果非常上訴之後，確定了，那這37個裡面，當初有一致決的有幾個你知道嗎？部長。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:29.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:34.290000+08:00","text":"這個要最高檢察署來調閱，我們會把卷送給……來做一個審核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:34.290000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.290000+08:00","text":"大法官解釋後你們沒去調？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:34.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.070000+08:00","text":"另外這個一致決的話，這個要向……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.070000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:36.070000+08:00","text":"大法官解釋後你們沒去調？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.571000+08:00","text":"評議部……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:36.571000+08:00","text":"大法官解釋後你們沒去調？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:36.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:37.571000+08:00","text":"還沒調嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.851000+08:00","text":"現在要陸續來進行。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.851000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:01:36.851000+08:00","text":"還沒調，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:01:35.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:04.848000+08:00","text":"我聽最高法院，這37個裡面總共有幾個人是有一致決的，你知道嗎？","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:06.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:06.848000+08:00","text":"這要調評議部來審核。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:06.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:09.369000+08:00","text":"所以你也不知道就對了？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:09.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:37.502000+08:00","text":"這些人有的已經關二十幾年了，部長，已經關滿無期徒刑的徒刑了，現在如果再審，如果沒有5個法官都把他判死刑，他就可以申請假釋，部長是不是這樣？","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:37.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:41.543000+08:00","text":"依照現行的法律，無期徒刑假釋期要25年。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:41.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:42.543000+08:00","text":"這些人就已經關25年了，你聽不懂嗎？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:41.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:44.144000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，不是25年就可以假釋，只是達到假釋的一個執行的門檻而已。對啦！","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:44.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:44.924000+08:00","text":"就是他可以申請了嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:44.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:44.944000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:52.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:02:54.200000+08:00","text":"依法他可以申請假釋。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:02:55.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:00.584000+08:00","text":"再來，37件裡面，這37個死刑犯有幾個人在三審時有言詞辯論的，你知道嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:01.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:06.367000+08:00","text":"現在大法官說如果三審沒有言詞辯論，是不能判他死刑的喔！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:06.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:06.847000+08:00","text":"這37個有幾個有言詞辯論？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:16.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:18.455000+08:00","text":"這個要調卷來做一個具體個案的審核。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:18.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:19.455000+08:00","text":"他判完你不就要問了嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:18.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:19.455000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，司法院那個廳長就公開說了，37個裡面只有5個人有言詞辯論，對不對？","quality":0.516},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:19.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:20.335000+08:00","text":"院長，這樣表示另外那32個不能判死刑耶！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:20.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:22.396000+08:00","text":"確定不能判死刑，這5個還不一定喔，還可以再訴喔！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:22.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:22.416000+08:00","text":"這樣不是很可惡！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:22.416000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:51.579000+08:00","text":"大法官是明知故犯耶，你要放過他？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:51.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:03:54.961000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，傷害到臺灣人民的感情太深了啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:03:56.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:16.538000+08:00","text":"如果要人權，你不就應該說從此以後有期徒刑、無期徒刑，所有的刑事的刑度全都要3個法官同意，你不就要這樣解釋，法律才有一致性、人權才有一致性，現在是怎樣，死刑犯有人權，有期徒刑的人就沒有人權？","quality":0.53},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:16.538000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:17.538000+08:00","text":"解釋成這樣耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:17.538000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:18.538000+08:00","text":"你聽得下去嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:18.538000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:19.538000+08:00","text":"院長，你聽得下去嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:19.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:23.491000+08:00","text":"我回答一個中性的問題，剝奪生命權跟剝奪自由權確實是不一樣，他們採取比較高的標準，是針對剝奪生命權的權利啦！","quality":0.592},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:24.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:27.474000+08:00","text":"但是這個是絕對值得社會再討論，剛才你說有5位，沒錯，101年以後……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:27.474000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:28.474000+08:00","text":"為什麼解釋……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:28.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:28.795000+08:00","text":"依照訴訟法是要言詞辯論……","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:28.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:49.612000+08:00","text":"應該退到本院，由立法院來制定新的法律，而不是他說的算，所以我說他違憲啦！","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:50.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:51.033000+08:00","text":"借荊州、霸荊州，現在是怎樣？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:51.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:52.314000+08:00","text":"大法官衣服都穿不下了，叫他重做一套，這麼大啊！","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:52.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:52.655000+08:00","text":"跟你說這個有時候怨嘆啦！","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:04:52.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:04:53.335000+08:00","text":"百姓實在是心在痛，對不對？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:16.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:05:18.841000+08:00","text":"現在再訴訟下去，我先跟你說，部長，遇到了啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:18.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:05:19.241000+08:00","text":"你也要面對啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:19.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:05:24.386000+08:00","text":"這些如果再訴訟，重判判無期徒刑，要釋放了，要帶他去哪裡釋放，你知道嗎？","quality":0.367},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:26.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:05:30.271000+08:00","text":"帶去司法院釋放，叫他先進去跟這些大法官道謝，這些死刑犯如果要釋放，把他放在司法院啦！","quality":0.368},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:43.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:05:45.179000+08:00","text":"叫他先去跟這些大法官道謝、感謝一下，但對這些被害者情何以堪。","quality":0.519},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:05:45.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:23.718000+08:00","text":"再來，院長，能源政策你還是沒辦法改變，你們繼續要維持2025年非核家園，達到目標後才要來檢討，這樣讓臺灣延宕差不多三年多至四年，再度恢復核能會賠差不多九千億至一兆兩千億的預算，這是全民要共同付出的代價。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:23.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:26.540000+08:00","text":"你那天有去七股看一個太陽能光電場，有嗎？有。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:26.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:27.840000+08:00","text":"你去看的那個案場有合法嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:42.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:48.153000+08:00","text":"那個案場算起來是比較順利的一個案場，但是還有一些接下來的程序要再完成，他當場有跟我說還有一些……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:48.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:48.753000+08:00","text":"他有跟你說嗎？是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:48.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:51.634000+08:00","text":"還沒完全合法就對了，為什麼你會去看那一案場，你知道嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:51.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:52.195000+08:00","text":"誰跟你介紹的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:52.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:53.515000+08:00","text":"這是經濟部建議的幾個地方，我們決定要去這個案場。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:53.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:53.755000+08:00","text":"經濟部！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:06:53.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:06:55.556000+08:00","text":"那間就是賴總統清德兄的好朋友。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:13.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:14.674000+08:00","text":"我去之前真的不知道。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:14.674000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:15.674000+08:00","text":"事後知道就對了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:14.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:16.275000+08:00","text":"我去之前真的不知道。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:16.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:19.677000+08:00","text":"我知道你之前不知道，但是你去的時候，他們有跟你說，清德跟他們很好嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:19.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:19.998000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有這樣說。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:20.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:22.779000+08:00","text":"臺南只有你去的七股，七股的面積是110平方公里，已經有種電的，你知道有多少嗎？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:22.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:25.121000+08:00","text":"差不多15平方公里，等於說七股裡面就有15%在種電。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:44.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:48.056000+08:00","text":"北門叫做兩個太陽，七股叫做3個太陽。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:50.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:07:58.579000+08:00","text":"你那天去的時候，里長他們家的客廳41度，我11月快12月去的時候，里長他們家的客廳39度，3個太陽。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:07:58.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:16.776000+08:00","text":"光一個七股就已經達1GW了，我們臺南市已經超過4.2GW了，這樣還要再繼續做？","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:16.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:21.480000+08:00","text":"在蔡英文總統任內只起訴一起案件，圖利91億，現在這些太陽能光電場的地底下有人埋爐碴，你知道嗎？","quality":0.439},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:21.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:23.061000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:24.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:26.323000+08:00","text":"你不知道嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:27.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:28.024000+08:00","text":"埋什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:28.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:28.285000+08:00","text":"爐碴啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:44.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:48.343000+08:00","text":"一魚兩、三吃，為什麼？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:48.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:08:52.786000+08:00","text":"因為埋了，上面搭了太陽能板，合約和台電簽約20年，你們誰敢去挖？","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:08:53.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:01.170000+08:00","text":"沒有人敢去挖，檢察官也不一定敢挖下去，挖下去如果沒有呢？","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:02.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:03.511000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:03.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:04.512000+08:00","text":"因為現在都會打樁，樁都打好了。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:08.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:18.186000+08:00","text":"我如果有機會當市長，我會去挖，因為當時里長跟在地人來檢舉，就是說底下已經埋爐碴了，他爐碴埋好了，賺一筆錢後就賣給你，你來做光電，光電沒違法喔！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:18.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:21.428000+08:00","text":"你來做剛好就埋進去，光電就在爐碴上面。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:21.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:09:41.512000+08:00","text":"你上任以來到現在，光電的弊案這麼多，你還沒辦半件，我不知道有沒有在查，你們都跟我說有、有在查，院長，我希望你做一個總檢討，第一，要總量管制。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:09:54.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:11.576000+08:00","text":"第二，在申請的時候要有統一規範，你們經濟部說這是地方權責，地方權責就會官商勾結、接受性招待，有去賄賂的、有去打通關係的，就讓它通過，如果沒有的就擱置，就是這樣，臺南市的局長被關就是這樣來的。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:11.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:27.516000+08:00","text":"中央不制定明確嘛，你完全沒有一個明確規範，所以造成臺南市、地方的這些官員可以上下其手。","quality":0.59},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:28.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:30.438000+08:00","text":"我是不是可以報告委員兩句話就好？好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:31.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:50.815000+08:00","text":"第一，我那天去到現場第一句話就說，如果每場都這麼順遂，我就都不用來了，我知道有很多問題；第二，我覺得現在經濟部跟農業部預計要做的地方太多，要減少，沒必要的、困難的不要去做，要減少地方去做。","quality":0.651},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:50.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:51.815000+08:00","text":"你不用跟我解釋這些，我瞭解。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:51.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:52.815000+08:00","text":"這是我那天在現場說的話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:51.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:51.876000+08:00","text":"我瞭解你去看的意思就是……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:52.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:10:53.338000+08:00","text":"有剛才你所說的爐碴，我要求我們的單位要去主動調查。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:10:53.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:08.035000+08:00","text":"會挑這場去，最主要就是因為要背書，不是針對他背書，就是說這場比較合法，我們坦白說。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:08.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:09.536000+08:00","text":"每場都這樣，我就不用去了，我知道有問題。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:09.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:10.577000+08:00","text":"你知道有問題，為什麼不辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:10.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:10.837000+08:00","text":"問題是什麼，為什麼不辦了？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:10.837000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:11.837000+08:00","text":"我在現場有講四個方法，第一要透明，第二要簡化……","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:11.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:11:29.318000+08:00","text":"我說給你聽，你知不知道2000年時全世界的黑面琵鷺有幾隻，你知道嗎？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:11:29.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:00.041000+08:00","text":"剩差不多200隻，經過我們臺南這些做魚塭的，在收魚塭的時候都會留一些給黑面琵鷺吃，照理說魚塭收完要曬池才能再放，他沒有，他等到黑面琵鷺飛回去北方以後，才開始整理魚塭重新飼養，到去年、到今年年初總共6,988隻。","quality":0.506},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:00.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:02.362000+08:00","text":"非常好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:06.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:15.989000+08:00","text":"全世界比去年多355隻，來這裡過冬的統計起來，但是全世界多355隻，臺灣減少91隻，臺南市減少191隻，為什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:15.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:29.565000+08:00","text":"因為電種得很多，現在屏東多好幾隻，濁水溪口多好幾隻，嘉義、臺南、高雄的黑面琵鷺減少，這就是生態已經受到影響。院長……","quality":0.408},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:29.565000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:30.565000+08:00","text":"所以那天我去現場看，我有跟他說沒必要做那麼多的面積，可以減少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:30.565000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:31.565000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:29.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:32.066000+08:00","text":"你要做一個管制，你要有一個明確的說明。是啊！","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:48.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:55.742000+08:00","text":"你總量沒有管制，到最後黑面琵鷺等等這些候鳥都不再來的時候，就表示臺灣這塊土地已經沒有用了，你我都很清楚，我們為什麼不能疼惜這塊土地，對不對？","quality":0.672},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:55.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:12:56.743000+08:00","text":"再來就是說，在這樣的過程，現在北門還有一場，有一個人一次申請50間公司要來做太陽能，都是能源公司，部長，你知道嗎？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:12:56.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:08.927250+08:00","text":"你是經濟部的次長，你知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長正祺","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:08.927250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:21.111500+08:00","text":"經濟部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:21.111500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:33.295750+08:00","text":"不知道喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:33.295750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:45.480000+08:00","text":"一次申請48間公司要來做太陽能，像雲豹公司申請18間子公司，五天公司被起訴1間、申請9間，現在這個申請四十幾間是要怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:45.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:48.562000+08:00","text":"是要逃稅還是要洗錢？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:51.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:13:53.806000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，會後我請次長跟委員請教，你再將這個資料提供，我們馬上來處理。","quality":0.548},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:13:54.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:14.252000+08:00","text":"媒體都有報導了，在北門，你們雲嘉南風管處的處長也說不宜再開發了，所以我才跟你說要總量管制，要怎麼管制，你們專業的去考慮，我不會去介入，我不會說我家這裡不要用，我不會這樣，要全面去檢討，對不對？","quality":0.671},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:14.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:15.714000+08:00","text":"是，我那天在現場就已經說到這個重點。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:15.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:16.835000+08:00","text":"你去七股，結果你沒有去後壁庄。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:16.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:20.858000+08:00","text":"手指頭夾到每隻都會痛，我請教你，無論是住在北部、住在南部、住在中部，都是你的子民，是不是這樣？","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:20.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:21.419000+08:00","text":"都是國家的主人。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:21.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:47.096000+08:00","text":"淹水的時候，你們說50公分要補助，賴總統清德兄說：過去30年做不好，我3年就做好了，各位臺南鄉親，從今天開始，我們臺南市不會再淹水了。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:47.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:51.239000+08:00","text":"結果還是每年都淹，後壁……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:51.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:51.259000+08:00","text":"面積有減少。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:53.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:14:57.344000+08:00","text":"面積減少，淹水淹比較高，你知道嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:14:57.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:04.451000+08:00","text":"關於後壁區我在今年8月有去控告，我不知道你們有沒有辦？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:04.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:04.971000+08:00","text":"地檢署有沒有辦？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:04.971000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:06.405500+08:00","text":"照理說不必淹水，結果是怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:06.405500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:07.840000+08:00","text":"堤防潰堤，崩塌了差不多20公尺，潰堤了！","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"陳次長正祺","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:07.840000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:09.274500+08:00","text":"沒有潰堤啦，那是溢流、滿過去。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:09.274500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:10.709000+08:00","text":"潰堤啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:10.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:12.143500+08:00","text":"滿過去？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:12.143500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:13.578000+08:00","text":"是說八掌溪那件事，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長正祺","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:13.578000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:15.012500+08:00","text":"是，那是滿過去。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:15.012500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:16.447000+08:00","text":"對，溢堤啦，那是溢堤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:16.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:17.881500+08:00","text":"什麼溢堤，溢堤歸溢堤啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:17.881500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:19.316000+08:00","text":"部長跟你說明已經有……","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:19.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:20.750500+08:00","text":"潰堤跟溢堤我會看不懂？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:20.750500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:22.185000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這部分臺南地檢署已經分案偵辦中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:22.185000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:23.619500+08:00","text":"這樣就好了，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:23.619500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:25.054000+08:00","text":"潰堤你跟我說溢堤，次長，你有去看嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:25.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:26.488500+08:00","text":"現在崩塌之後大家怎樣說呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:26.488500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:27.923000+08:00","text":"所以你是經濟部的嘛？是。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:27.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:30.024000+08:00","text":"他說這不是經濟部做的！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:57.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:15:59.068000+08:00","text":"不是經濟部就是臺南市政府做的？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:15:59.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:01.851000+08:00","text":"臺南市政府說這不是我們做的！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:02.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:02.431000+08:00","text":"這樣是水利會做的？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:02.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:03.633000+08:00","text":"水利會說也不是我們做的！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:05.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:11.701000+08:00","text":"大家都推得一乾二淨，所以我才要去告，讓檢察官查看看是誰做的！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:11.701000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:15.590955+08:00","text":"哪有用水泥建造堤防沒有綁鋼筋，沒有綁鋼筋耶！","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:15.590955+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:19.480909+08:00","text":"我問你，下個月再下大雨會再潰堤嗎？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:19.480909+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:23.370864+08:00","text":"一定會再潰堤！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:23.370864+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:27.260818+08:00","text":"他現在修補這塊有綁鋼筋，這20公尺有綁，但前後沒綁，這樣要怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:27.260818+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:31.150773+08:00","text":"一天到晚跟我說這些，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:31.150773+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:35.040727+08:00","text":"你也要去看一下！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:35.040727+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:38.930682+08:00","text":"部長，檢察官有在查了吧？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:38.930682+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:42.820636+08:00","text":"要還鄉親一個……院長，我告訴你，整個村莊剛好淹150公分，所以要跟市長要1,200個便當，市長說什麼？","quality":0.054},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:42.820636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:46.710591+08:00","text":"震怒啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:46.710591+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:50.600545+08:00","text":"活動中心只有60個，為什麼要1,200個便當？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:50.600545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:54.490500+08:00","text":"他不知道說一千多個都淹水了，他們家的廚房都淹水了、都不能出外買便當！","quality":0.032},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:54.490500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:16:58.380455+08:00","text":"情況是這樣，你知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:16:58.380455+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:02.270409+08:00","text":"你也沒去看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:02.270409+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:06.160364+08:00","text":"我想要跟院長拜託一下，多幫忙這些災民──150公分的災民，好不好？","quality":0.074},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:06.160364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:10.050318+08:00","text":"八掌溪那個堤防我有去看，我知道那個情形，現在臺南地檢署已經分案，我們就希望儘速查辦清楚。","quality":0.025},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:10.050318+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:13.940273+08:00","text":"那補助呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:13.940273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:17.830227+08:00","text":"補助已經有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:17.830227+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:21.720182+08:00","text":"他們就照50公分的補助，你聽不懂嗎？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:21.720182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:25.610136+08:00","text":"還有欠缺的地方我想由經濟部再去瞭解。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:25.610136+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:29.500091+08:00","text":"你有要瞭解嗎？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳次長正祺","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:29.500091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:33.390045+08:00","text":"我們會跟委員報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:33.390045+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:37.280000+08:00","text":"趕快去跟委員請教。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:37.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:38.040000+08:00","text":"謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長的備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T15:17:38.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:17:43.397143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請登記第16位李柏毅委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"14:46:35 - 15:17:47","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}